Adding A Second Penstock To My Off Grid Hydroelectric Turbine (Survey)

In this video I survey the second water source on my land and go through all the numbers and the plan for the new addition.

[@davidprocter3578]

Kris another thought you might be able to save the Oak by cutting the trunk at five feet above the root bole cleaning up the hole it left spreading compost in the hole and winching the stump upright. Come spring the stump should generate shoots and by the time the tree is big enough to need a large root system they should have already regrown to match. I have seen this work with other oaks in wet environments.In about ten years selective pruning should supply you with poles for fencing or fire wood and future generations with a chunky oak tree to marvel at not forgetting wild life habitat and carbon uptake

[@jackuk4431]

That would make an interesting video to follow! Would be great if it worked

[@damogranheart5521]

I've seen some pretty good saves when it comes to uprooted trees on public television. This is bigger than usual but I think it could work. Very cool idea!

[@t.r.l.4377]

i've seen that with other species of trees.......but oak!? think it depends on type/variant of oak. in germany i've never seen oak doin that. may we have the wrong oaks over here! ✌😁

[@patrickcleburneuczjsxpmp9558]

I don't see that working with a tree that big, especially not an oak.

[@davidprocter3578]

@@t.r.l.4377 Oak not the best tree species for this type of rescue, but can be done, if not left too long exposed to the air, this tree stands a fair chance as it still has much soil around it's root bole.Providing Kris follows some basic rules it will have a fair crack at the next thousand years.

[@fonhollohan2908]

The smaller pipe definitely makes more sense. btw I've really enjoyed this video Kris I've not really paid too much attention to this type hydro technology but I found you did a great job educating those like myself who aren't familiar with this field of technology. So ignore any trolls that tries to trash what your doing most of them are most likely just jealous of your success. Cheers bud.

[@rogerdeane3608]

I agree, WELL SAID. Kris has presented an excellent tutorial. This guy gave up a high paying career to show the world that you can live comfortably off the land with out destroying our environment.

[@neilbendon844]

Well done, Kris. I think you are a real trier.

[@michaelmcginn7260]

Thanks Kris, fascinating! The maths make me dizzy and its great to know there are people such as yourself who take the whole process in their stride.

[@Ian_Christensen]

Hey Kris. Check out > Awesome Low Head High Flow Grid Tie Micro Hydro 530 watts! < on youtube. Instead of adding another pipe to the nozzle you could simply add the Low Head High Flow by having a 2>3 meter drop on the end of the pipe. Plz check it out.

[@castlerock7423]

@@rogerdeane3608 Never got that vibe. First video I saw of his he said he had never really made that much money. That was the vibe I got from him, never that he was rich. Although I will say he's literally paying thousands probably every month to buy all this equipment, but he works constantly. I doubt he ever takes a break.

[@Woodbrute]

I’m retired from the pump industry. This takes me back. I could mail you a slide rule that calculates friction loss and flow rates if you could use it.

[@merseyviking]

I'm one of the number lovers - so keep it up as far as I'm concerned! As for the next part, my intention isn't to be "that guy", just some advice I have learned over the years doing archaeological surveys. Firstly, your surveying methods are perfectly fine for your needs, where if you're +-20cm over a 200m run, you're happy. But if you want to look even more professional, you can do a more accurate levelling survey by having the rodman stand at the start, and you put the level about halfway between that point and the next one you want to survey, you then sight up to the rod and note that height. The rodman then moves to the next point and you keep the level exactly where it is, you swing it around at take a measurement off the rod. Then by subtracting the second reading from the first, you get the difference in height without having to measure the height of the instrument. You can then leapfrog the instrument down to the next point, take a back-sight off the rod, the rodman leapfrogs over you, and so on. You end up with fewer sights overall because the rod can move from one extreme to the other. A couple of other tips: take a spirit level with you to level the tripod before putting the instrument on it. you don't have to be super accurate, but it saves time adjusting the tribrach, especially when you realise you have reached the end of a screw and so have to wind it back, reseat the tripod and start again. Also, if the staff doesn't have a bubble level, the rodman should gently rock the staff back and forth and the surveyor reads off the highest value. Finally, and I don't think you're guilty of this, always put the instrument in its box when moving from point to point. I have seen people just sling the tripod with the instrument still attached over their shoulder and go yomping off. It gives me the heebies just thinking about it! Something I have just thought of - and I've not tried this mind - is to use the barometer in your phone. Get an app that gives you the pressure and ideally altitude, take a reading at the head, and another at the bottom, and you subtract one from the other. They're really surprisingly precise, to within a handful of cm, assuming the atmospheric pressure doesn't change too quickly. And you're only interested in a difference of altitude, so you won't need to calibrate it to the local QNH or anything.

[@KrisHarbour]

Thanks for the info. that does make sense. Its not always possible though as I often have to move every time in order to be able to see the stick as its often very wooded and winding terrain. but when I can I will use that method now. Thanks

[@andymccabe6712]

Soo..the crucial question is - is it a rod or a staff or a stick......?!?!

[@merseyviking]

@@andymccabe6712 If you want to sound professional, it's a levelling staff. If you want to get the job done, it's a stick.

[@axemane410]

@@KrisHarbour Also to calculate the distance : in the visors there are 2 extra lines. Subtract the measurements from them and multiply by 100 (should by written in the manuall) normally that would give the distance in cm

[@jayt9882]

@@andymccabe6712 Rod's the member of staff who holds the stick isn't he? lol

[@davidraffe3445]

Hi Kris, Awesome channel. Top skills btw. I used to do a lot of surveying back in the day. When using an optical level you don't need to use a tape measure to measure the height of the instrument - just get Dot to stand at the top of the penstock location with the staff and sight back uphill to it (backsight). This gives you the height of the cross hairs above the ground where the staff is. Then turn and sight downhill to the next staff location (foresight). Foresight minus backsight gives you the difference in height between the two staff locations. Then backsight to the second staff location...ad-infinitum down your penstock. Top tip - if you keep your Backsights and Foresights roughly the same length (Get Dot to count paces to the instrument and away again), then any error in your instrument gets cancelled out. Also, if Dot rocks the staff backwards and forwards, you know when you see the lowest reading on the staff - that is when the staff is exactly vertical. You can check your instrument accuracy by doing a two-peg test. You can verify your whole survey by going back uphill to the top of the penstock again and seeing if you get back to the same level. Hope it helps. Regards, David

[@timpullen9202]

Chris, for the survey you should try the following. Set up your level and then site Dot. Dot stays where she is and you then move the level downstream. Now site Dot again without her moving. You now keep the level in the same position and Dot now moves downstream and you take a site again. Keep doing this foresight and then backsight procedure until the end, and try to keep the distance for each siting about the same. Using this method is closer to the industry standard for a levelling survey, plus you do not need to measure the height of the level each time. Backsight / foresight will cancel the height of the level and you then only need the start and terminal height. Hope that makes sense. All the best, Tim

[@harrisondring4863]

Just wondering why altimeters aren't used for this application, I (rightly or wrongly) assumed that they exist with a high enough resolution?

[@KrisHarbour]

Thanks Tim, a few people have recommended that now, I will give it a go.

[@KrisHarbour]

Harrison, they can be used for a very rough estimate but the accuracy is no where near good enough for surveying a hydro system.

[@harrisondring4863]

I didn't know altimeter were too inaccurate, I also don't know if relative altimeter exist that would just measure a change in altitude instead if an absolute value above sea level?

[@fatdabistan1448]

More detailed instructions for this process (differential leveling) can be found in any basic surveying text (or free on youtube). With your equipment and proper field procedures, there's no reason you can't achieve mm-level relative accuracies (surveyors can achieve sub-mm accuracies over several kilometers of measurements). For a quick field-check of your measurements at each sighting, I recommend 3-wire leveling (reading all three wires and ensuring the difference between top-middle and middle-bottom wires is within a mm or two)

[@69Buddha]

I really enjoy the hydro content! Can't wait to see the second pipe go in. I'm curious how close you would get to your high tech devices if you went back and did the survey a second time with the water level, stick, and tape measure. I know that'd be a waste of your time, but I love me some comparison data. :D

[@mx96288]

awesome, remember asking about an update on the flow expansion quite some time ago. this should really enable you to keept those batteries at an optinal SoC on heavy Machining&Plasma Cutting Sessions :)

[@rcpmac]

The first 5 minutes covering handmade survey equipment is an invaluable lesson for the DIY set. Loved that you mentioned the upgrade was partly driven by image to customers! This dispels the notion that one needs high tech tools to do the job. Thank you Kris.

[@nickvanrooyen3247]

Hi Kris, could you explain why a manifold setup wouldn't work? The 2 different pipes into a manifold and then into the nozzles. Would this equalize the flow?

[@doopfdeckel]

worst case, turbine not running, you will push water from the first intake to the second.

[@t00ls742]

flow has no bearing here...dynamic pressure does...the only reason to know how much flow is in the creek is to make sure that at the end you wont run out..... the nozzle jets reduce the flow at the end if the new pipe has higher head then he wont need the old one...it wont make more power with more water unless the head pressure is higher water speed coming out the end is called velocity, not pressure static pressure is water pressure at the end with valves closed dynamic pressure is water pressure at the end with the valves open...you can change dynamic pressure 2 ways here....how far the valves are open, which effects velocity also...or different size jets...which can also effect velocity either way, there is a sweet spot of too much or not enough

[@paulkinnear705]

Kris, what a great vid very educational!! But not being a hydro engineer, my brain is asking couldn’t you add the second pipe to the original manifold and as you’ve done with the first adding this new flow in and spread both over all four nozzle’s evenly! I’m guessing the reason your not doing it is that this is not how it works! But I’d like to know why if you have the time to explain? Many thanks and good luck with the build!

[@t00ls742]

flow has no bearing on it...head pressure does.....unless he increased head pressure it wouldnt make any difference....2 sources of water with the same head pressure but different flow rates will not impact his power since he reduces the size of the pipe at the very end using jets...that is where final flow is measured... the only reason to know how much flow is in the creek is to make sure there is enough water to not run out all that matters then is dynamic head pressure static pressure in different size pipes at the same height is the same...it doesnt increase by using bigger pipe so the end result ...if the new pipe has more head, he wouldnt even need the old one as it would not change the power output to have both

[@trapped7534]

Absolutely brilliant. Never be ashamed of your equipment. You are more intelligent than 95% of the folks you deal with. All that glitters is not gold.

[@thehairybfg]

The numbers actually give a great perspective on the entire project and explain the value of the decisions you have made. 100% worthwhile to listen to :)

[@Zhenn9413]

This is why I have a positive outlook for the future. Young people doing genius things.

[@calebcousins7416]

Truly outstanding content! Literally nothing else like it out there when considering the whole series, detailed but simplistic and the commentary with the video of the system in construction and operation is what you don't get from all the University and scholars papers. If your situation allows, have you considered guest lecturing/field visits for university courses in Hydro? I doubt there would be many more effective ways of leaning than seeing the principals in action and hearing from the hand who put it all together. Love what you're doing and good luck with the rest of the journey. I'll be watching every week.

[@FarmCraft101]

I hope you get a customer that has a high flow, low head situation. Those are very common and the systems are quite different in setup. Would be interesting to see how you tackle it.

[@keesdejong3653]

Love the opening of this video where you explain the difference between your first methods and your current one. "You can do what I'm doing today with a stick with some graduations on it , a bit of clear tube and some tape." :) Fun to see how we make everything just more complicated, difficult and thus specialized where pretty much anyone should be able to do the job.

[@duncanfrere2656]

Fascinating, all of the considerations that go into determining what the specs on a system need to be for maximum efficiency! Clearly presented, really, since I'm terrible at math and I understood the basics of what is going on! Thanks for your channel.

[@nick.caffrey]

As a complete ignoramus, I agree. Even I could understand what Kris was trying to explain. It's great when somebody like him, who knows what he is doing, takes the time to explain, in clear language, what he does to arrive at the conclusions he does. If only we had politicians who could express themselves as clearly!

[@rndmcnflct]

From your diagram, it seems that the two streams stay separate and don't converge. Are you worried about the environmental impact on the land of removing 4 L/s from one stream and adding it to another?

[@bradbeining6446]

I think you should show up with the old sighting equipment because it looks like witchcraft. lol Love what you're doing and keep up the hard work.

[@nickjones7573]

What happens if you mix the flow from both sources and then feed all 4 nozzles? You should get the combined flow rate at the lower head pressure without any mismatching at the nozzles.

[@OzBeefer]

This is what I was thinking too, aren't the nozzle feeds already part of a pressure-equalising 'loop'?

[@joelbradley7682]

I was about to ask this same question. Surely there is a reason to justify 2 separate pipes feeding different nozzles on one turbine. But I wondered if the second stream could tee into the existing pipe nearer to the turbine and increase pipe diameter from that point until the turbine. Be interested in an explanation from Kris.

[@randacnam7321]

@@joelbradley7682 Differences in head height betwixt the intakes. Water will try to flow from the higher intake to the lower intake.

[@randacnam7321]

@@joelbradley7682 The only time you can combine flows is when the effective head pressure of both penstocks is the same at the point of combination. In practice, this means intakes at the same elevation and same flow rate using penstocks of identical diameter and length.

[@joelbradley7682]

@@randacnam7321 ah right, would be cool to see this in a tested format. Clear tubes and such. Might do some research :)

[@ancientbedrock9366]

Never first … Always here.😎 Kris ,this may be a silly question however, With your design what would be your minimum hydraulic head at the turbine needed to create usable energy for a place like your house without the work shop ? Thanks for all the videos sir ✌️

[@MrPaulviles]

Any reason you haven’t fixed up the wind turbine? That was really producing good power.

[@hsv7676]

“Sunday winter morning...” what happiness, everything is green and there is no snow!!! Your work is very interesting, and I always watch videos about it with great interest.

[@1956vern]

Great vlog Kris! Very professional presentation of your hydro survey! I found and agree now with your assessment of not having a second hydroelectric generator! Looks to be another job that will help in making more energy! I’m hoping that you can put a smaller valve in to give you the ability to water your livestock and garden or is that a possibility! That oak tree looks like you could recover 3 meters of wood and still have habitat? Thanks Kris and Dot! Another fine vlog👏

[@LarsDonner]

Could you mount a second turbine on the same shaft as the first one, but make its radius 15% smaller, so that the slower flow would result in the same RPM?

[@will_doherty]

Looking down the comments, I see you got in with this point before I did!

[@dietershirley3234]

I was coming to post the same suggestion. It might be impractical (flow from one turbine would spill down into the other), but mathematically it’s a very neat solution! Maybe the second shaft could be offset with a gear to transfer power?

[@will_doherty]

@@dietershirley3234 As I noted in my earlier comment (before I saw and responded to this poster's comment) if a baffle were fitted to the chamber to separate the water flow of the two turbines from each other that would solve that issue...

[@RingingResonance]

I think you are going to need more battery. 30kwh isn't going to be enough for all of that machinery if working full time. On a side note; Have you investigated thermal recovery and storage using large water tanks and insulating them yourself? If you are going to build a house at some point it might be worth it to use thermal storage to preheat hot water and for radiant floor heating. That way you could modify a wood stove with a heat exchanger, store that heat, and then use it to heat the entire house. In addition you could also use solar thermal, or collect waste heat from a backup generator if you ever choose to use one.

[@Codedelaroutesamad]

Bravo👏👏👏🙏🙏

[@tyllzybura]

Quality cat content, thanks. :) Seriously though, I don’t know anything about building or energy (or running water, really; except, you know, faucets?) but I hugely enjoy watching smart people at work. Thanks for showing us your skills and your learning!

[@donaldkennedy5604]

That cat follows you around like a dog. They normally don’t do that.

[@telinoz1975]

I thought the wind turbine was adding value, when solar is low or waterflow is low. What are your plans to get the wind turbine going again?

[@yoyopg123]

Sounds like you have really good neighbors. While its always a blessing to have those, it is especially true if you live a somewhat unconventional lifestyle. Puss Puss is quite the companion around the Hundred Acre Wood. My cats couldn't be bothered getting off the sofa. Always enjoy the videos Kris!

[@michelewhitewolf3712]

Thank you I can now wrap my head around the complexities of the calculations as well as all if the fiddly bits in between. I live in the Pacific North West of Washington state so hydro is a major source of power even for the lower individual low impact systems. Hoping to be putting your education to work soon. PS Please give your four footed inspector a cuddle for me. They follow you around so many places keeping you safe from wild rodent or small bird attacks.

[@garrettthornton3086]

Fascinating video! Living in California means I’ll likely never be able to build a hydro system myself (serious lack of rain), but seeing how this all works is awesome. Thanks as always for sharing!

[@twestgard2]

You probably have enviable opportunities for solar tho.

[@garrettthornton3086]

@@twestgard2 Yeah, definitely good solar here.

[@milohobo9186]

I find myself wondering if you could combine the two stream intakes just prior to splitting it into the 4 nozzles to spin the turbine to reduce the mismatch in speed and power.

[@Noble909]

I wonder if you could install a reservoir to terminate your two water sources then feed a single line into the turbine house. Maybe that could regulate your flow without special nozzles.

[@apoklyptykl13DMT]

this almost makes no sense

[@Extragonk]

@@apoklyptykl13DMT read fine to me :)

[@Noble909]

@@apoklyptykl13DMT I'm sorry to hear that

[@cliveramsbotty6077]

it would have to be a very large reservoir, the two source points are a significant distance apart.

[@Noble909]

@@cliveramsbotty6077 Their distance from each other shouldn't matter, only their flow rate.

[@snowstrobe]

Fascinating. It was good to learn how the surveying thing worked too. Would have thought the trunk of that oak could be useful, leaving the rest for habitate. It would also be cool to see a little map of the land so we can understand the layout.

[@TheBertjeT]

I'd recommend putting these calculations in a spreadsheet. It would make it easy to tweak and play around with the parameters. You can also calculate certain requirements to get the desired output. Say how much flow you would need to get a certain speed at a certain head etc. You can also graph the output over a year. And when combined with consumption data from the customer it could automatically calculate savings and ROI and so on. Could be awesome and would also look professional when presenting the info to a customer.

[@sonsti8014]

I''m not in the market for a hyrdoelectric system, but its still interesting! Will you be rebuilding your windturbine as well?

[@Ian_Christensen]

Hey Kris. Check out > Awesome Low Head High Flow Grid Tie Micro Hydro 530 watts! < on youtube. Instead of adding another pipe to the nozzle you could simply add the Low Head High Flow by having a 2>3 meter drop on the end of the pipe. Plz check it out. If you got a 14 meter drop on 200m you could even put 3 stages of Low Head High Flow on a stair pipe system. Could eventually give you up to 1500W.

[@jimmysquires5093]

Kris, what if you combined the 2 penstocks into a larger ~150mm x 12meter section of pipe before feeding the turbine?

[@78ss53]

That was my thought as well. Y connector joining both pipes before the turbine would give all nozzles the same pressure, which would be good.

[@eduardom800]

Kris ¿will you rebuild the wind turbine? the average output was quite good as I remember you said. Cheers!

[@rosewright9451]

As knowledgeable as you are I am not so I skipped the figures out and am looking forward to watching you put in the pipes down. Good luck.

[@JM-iy6wm]

You are an inspiration young man. I am 71 years old and glad to see a young person so well rounded keep it up I 'll keep on watching. God Bless you Jim from the u.s.a.

[@JoeMalovich]

Two different runners on one shaft is an option, I know Spencer has done it. The increased windage would likely negate the advantages.

[@Ed.R]

I came into the comments to say exactly this. Hadn't thought about windage.

[@will_doherty]

Unlikely to negate all of it, else they'd never run at all. The second wheel running on the same shaft would also split the friction losses, so also assisting the first turbine.

[@jeffrippe6559]

I always dig your content, Kris. This is a very interesting video. But, hey…..that pussycat is a Rockstar! Best mascot on KZbin for sure!

[@Curionimbus]

Thank you for the informative and engaging content as always. Much luck with the seemingly intense work to come. I'm looking forward to seeing it's progression and eventual completion. All the best to you, Dot and the little tiger. Cheers!

[@DJ-uk5mm]

I love the way you give details as you go along like when you mention the airlocks and sediment if you go uphill at any point. you’re a great educator I think at some stage we should be running courses I’ve booked myself on the weekend course once you’ve organise it ! :-)

[@jimc4731]

I think you need a mill pond to collect water from all your sources, thereby equalizing the outflow through all seasons of water flow. JIM

[@y0uRF4t3]

Your cat following you arround is absolutely precious.

[@chrischristenson4547]

if you showed up at my place with the water, I would say that the level "looks better" but the water shows a higher IQ I like high IQ you demonstrate a very high IQ in all your presentations Particularly your building models that teach you important things at low cost

[@lenwhatever4187]

How much does nozzle size affect the stream speed? It is true that a smaller nozzle would decrease the amount of water getting through for any given time but a thumb over a hose increases the jet speed so I would expect a smaller jet size would do the same. How hard/easy is it to calculate the change in jet speed for nozzle size and the change in flow and ultimately the change in power? Or does flow trump everything?

[@wendyweaver8749]

Len whatever - Have you viewed all of the videos in the Hydro Playlist? If my memory serves, Kris addressed the nozzle size in at least one of the earlier videos. He may have also addressed nozzle size when he modified/upgraded the system.

[@guygillmore2970]

Smaller outlets only give more speed when pipe friction is very high (such as when you have your thumb over a hose pipe). For hydro pipe losses are comparatively small. For obvious reasons.

[@t00ls742]

to have precise flow measurements, you need to have an exact opening using a weir...then you can use that to convert to the size of pipe you are going to use and know what the flow in that pipe is....but none of that matters when you reduce the size using jets on the turbine...all that has any bearing on power then is head pressure....dynamic head pressure to be exact larger pipe and friction wont be in play on your system due to the fact that you reduce the flow out the end....so bigger pipe straighter run wont make any difference as I have said before...on small systems like this where you reduce the flow at the end, all you need to be concerned with is dynamic pressure and head pressure...any engineer will tell you the same thing

[@gareth4168]

Your hydro (and wind) videos are fascinating and I love the technical info. Would it be possible to use two sets of spoons on different diameter wheels on the same shaft with the low head water powering the smaller wheel? I guess the extra weight and complexity might not justify any gain.

[@alskjflaksjdflakjdf]

I was wondering same thing: just add a second smaller turbine wheel to the same shaft as the larger one. One thought I had is that the waste water from the upper turbine wheel may somehow interfere with the lower wheel, but I really don't know.

[@smifffies]

Interesting video. Your initial water & stick height measure system is thousands of years old, the modern Theodolite is only about 500 years old, both work and earlier one is in the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" category. Just a suggestion for your report make sure your spellchecker and grammar is set to UK English, i.e. paid not payed, just looks more professional. Keep up the good work and the video's coming Kris. Once you have all you engineering equipment set up, you could think about converting the dirty diesel & chip fat van to electric.

[@Dan-ud8ob]

Fascinating.. couldn't you solve the problem by building a collection vessel that both pipes would feed , then running as many nozzles you choose to the generator/fins from the vessel. the vessel would equal out any discrepancies' in pipe differences and provide equal presser to the nozzles

[@alskjflaksjdflakjdf]

A good thought, but unfortunately water won't work like this. If you picture your scenario as the water in his water level with one side having a hole partway down, what will happen is the water will go backwards and pour out of the lower dam. It will transfer water from the upper stream to the lower one, and the pressure at the bottom will be equal to the pressure provided by the lower dam. :(

[@mrkay3002]

Since you are making your own turbines... why don't you put a second spoondisc with a different diameter on the same shaft of the turbine to match the velocities? It would increase the inertia of the disc and maybe the friction in the bearings but it should not have a big effect since the speed does not ramp up or down crazy fast.

[@UsernameTaken4131332]

I think it would be easier to use the barometer that most, if not all, smart phones have. There are altimeter apps that use that sensor. Or you could use an app that uses satellite position systems, like gps or Galileo.

[@wolfe1970]

The miss match velocity, on the old stream you are saying it has 17.8m/s, but is that not just for 1 nozzle or did you work it out for all 3 nozzles ? Because looking at the difference between the 2 streams, i would have said the one with 3 nozzles would have less speed than the stream feeding 1 nozzle ?

[@daveturnbull7221]

This was really interesting and has got me thinking more and more about localised power generation. Given the forecast increase in high velocity wind for the UK those massive wind farms are going to be spending more time idle than was originally thought but something like a hydro system will be able to keep going unless there is a very major drought and at that point you'll be getting more from the solar. I can't help but be impressed by Dot - she seems to be as much of a workaholic as you are and looked to be fairly happy standing in a stream in the middle of a Welsh winter. I agree with the other commenters about the tree - harvest the trunk and leave the branches & stump as habitat. That big lump of oak should generate some nice wood that you could possibly sell to fund other projects and a trunk that size will not really start to break down for a very long time. I'm off to start watching some of your other hydro videos - see if I can edjumicate myself 🤣

[@MrSpaced123]

Great work here , seems you did that as a "test run" for surveying hydro for customers. Chill out a bit when talking to actual customers, we know youre right your customers have asked you there because you have shown youre able to do the job, you dont need to sell everything so hard , it should sell itself. Good luck though.

[@tomrobertson3236]

On the falling oak . Salvage the first section . Leave the top as is for wildlife

[@loranmorash8532]

What if you were to Y into the the original penstock? and run all 4 off of the one penstock junction in the hydro gen building?

[@gyroscopicme]

Great project! What a wonderful kitty! Dot is a real trouper, isn't she?

[@chiefwiggum1976]

WHAT!! You mean measuring wheels can be used for more than measuring the playground in school?! 🤯😂

[@MariaCCurry]

favourite youtuber of all time - great content - love hearing the different colloquial expressions - delightful

[@devonwright52]

Fantastic, thank you for reviewing the breakdown. Math is life

[@rogerdeane3608]

I enjoyed your analyses immensely. I have installed some Klm's of pipe for irrigation and electronic is a passion. The two share similar values as far as losses over distance . Because of the terrain you had to work in I think you and Dot have done an excellent job selecting the path and taking levels at the same time.. ( The couch Professors with think differently. )

[@michaelrck]

The water level with a stick was good enough for the Romans and the Ancient Greeks. Well done lad.

[@carolwunsch4546]

DOT ALERT 😇. Kris, I thoroughly enjoy your content. Have watched from the beginning with my husband, and have learned much. When I need a “translation” of the more technical explanations, my resident engineer kindly explains. My interests include music and weaving. I loved the harp you made for Dot. Please, could we hear more about the FANTASTIC SWEATER Dot is wearing in this video? It is a work of art!

[@radleysmith7528]

Thought the same regarding the sweater, would have loved to read their minds regarding all possible repurposing of the fallen Oak tree

[@sarkybugger5009]

Just the fact that it will give you a year round, weather independent power supply makes it worthwhile. Are you planning on getting the wind turbine working again?

[@AndyFletcherX31]

Wonderful explanation of your situation with cost/benefit analysis of the options. Another point is do you need the last 30 watts or so anyway? I'm completely solar here and in summer I can't use a lot of the available power whereas in winter I'm fighting to get enough power. I suspect you will be in the same position but with the seasons reversed and that residual 100W throughout the summer months will be extremely valuable and will save you building out a large solar array.

[@CraigMacdonaldAeon]

Has Dot played her harp in the top shed yet? The acoustics would sound great.

[@capistranogardener6100]

Have you considered using hydrophobic coatings (pipe and turbine parts)? It would be interesting to see if the increase in flow efficiency would be cost effective...Keep up the good work.

[@ralphprincen]

Could you do a drone fly over of the property and the streams, so we have an idea how they flow over the property, and how the pipes will go. Thanks!

[@chrisfryer3118]

A taught tape or laser measure will be more accurate than the wheel. I've used both, the wheel being far easier, seeing a laser pointer at distance is a challenge, but with that tripod, it ought to be doable. The wheel will measure surface distance, humps n pits and all.

[@sarkybugger5009]

The pipe will be laying on the ground, not fixed rigidly in straight lines, so the laser is not a good option. Tape will do the same job as a wheel, but it's a bugger to clean. He made the right choice, IMO.

[@chrisfryer3118]

@@sarkybugger5009 I commented before the end, the wheel obviously the right tool for the job here.

[@sarkybugger5009]

@@chrisfryer3118 You commented at the beginning that a taught tape or laser would be more accurate. It is obviously not so. You just admitted it with your last comment.

[@davidandrews8566]

That was very interesting content I was sorry when it ended. Just need to get me a stream now. You have a most intrepid pair of companions.

[@drydenstewartenterprises]

Hey Kris, I just paused the video about 9 min in to pass on a little information that I know from my days surveying roads back in the day with a rod and level. When you first get started set up your level and make sure it is level and get Dot to pick a large rock that is not going to move and place a mark on top of it, you would call this the main control point, You should make a note of where that Rock is so you can always come back to that rock. Now you are going to give that control point an arbitrary elevation (we always used 100 meters as we were not likely to drop below 100 meters in our survey and it makes for easy math). Now next you are going to use the level to get a shot from the rod, dot should rock the rod back and forth facing you, that way when you look through the level at the numbers the lines are going to move as she is rocking the rod, the lowest number you read will be the most accurate as the rod tips towards you the numbers increase and as it rocks backward and becomes plumb the numbers will be at their lowest and then as it rocks backward the numbers increase again. This makes for accurate shooting and you wont have to worry if Dot is holding the rod perfectly plumb. Now when you get your first shot done and have the numbers from the rod sitting on your main control point, just subtract those numbers from the original elevation of that control point and you will have the exact elevation of your level (No need to measure the elevation of the level from an uneven ground with a measuring tape), no proceed to take your shots along the creek as you usually will. When Dot gets to a point where you are starting to have issues reading the rod, have her mark another large immovable rock and give you another shot on it and call it control point #2, pick up your level and move it to a more desirable location down the creek, have Dot go back to control point #2 once you are set up and get another elevation for your level and carry on down the creek. If you want to go one step even further go through and set up control points first, just setting up taking a shots one the first control point, get dot to set up a second control point get that shot and then always recheck the previous control point, this will help just incase you bump your level while you are doing your survey as you can just get Dot to go to a control point to reestablish the elevation on the level.

[@drydenstewartenterprises]

Sorry was just re-reading what I wrote, where I said " subtract those numbers from the original elevation of that control point" It should be ADD those numbers to your control point as the top of that rock we are saying is at 100 meters elevation, so if you are reading 1.2 meters on the rod, the elevation of the level is at 101.2 meters. Then when you are shooting down to control point #2, subtract what you are reading from your levels elevation, so say you are reading 2 meters on the rod at CP #2 so you have .8 meters difference between the level and your control point, so the elevation for control point #2 is 100.8 meters, hope that makes sense!

[@gonzo_the_great1675]

I'm wondering about the turbine/alternator losses of 20% ??? Surely you will loose pretty much the same, irrespective of whether you put both feeds through a single turbine, or use a separate turbine?? And a separate turbine would be redundancy and the option of using it as a test-bed.

[@kennethgibbons366]

Really interesting Kris... I'm looking forward to the set-up and installation of the extra system. Also I loved the extra shots of the cat!

[@MT-gv8ns]

Great info - very interesting and well explained (from a retired civil/mechanical engineer) - John Donovan's advice on surveying is spot on

[@jesselangham]

Dot is an absolute treasure. You're a very lucky guy.

[@Liam....]

Would a traditional mill type water wheel geared down be any use or is it not a viable option ?

[@mineman8496]

That fallen oak is to much good timber to leave rot when you have a mill

[@_coffeeandcigars]

couldnt you add a second turbine rotor with a smaller radius (matched to lower nozzle velocity) on the same shaft and alternator?

[@SuperHurdman]

My thoughts would be why not use your excavator what we call them in Canada! You might call it a shovel, high hoe regardless Dig a pond up top which would give you plenty of head pressure! you could line it with rocks and put a little dam at the front of it so you could regulate the water flow. another great idea with head pressure is a ram pump which runs with gravity I will provide a link on what it looks like you probably know about ram pumps. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJzSeaSGgsStrsk Here is a homemade design you can build from hardware store material kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4eUqpuki6iYgLs

[@andymccabe6712]

Er, if you go back and watch lots of old videos on the hydro system - you will discover why this is not a good idea.....!!

[@gubber911]

Can you reduce the nozzle velocity "mismatch" by decreasing you nozzle diameter? Is it an issue of nozzle availability?

[@KrisHarbour]

No the nozzle diameter does not change the velocity. The velocity is derived from the head pressure. a smaller nozzle would mean less flow and less loss so in that sense it would help a bit. but only because of less loss from less flow. But then we would be getting much less power due to the low flow than if we just run the mismatch

[@gubber911]

@@KrisHarbour I deal mostly in mechanical engineering but if I'm not mistaken, in incompressible flow (ei: water), your flow can be assumed constant at constant pressure. Your head loss increases through decreasing nozzle diameter (due to friction factor increase) but as the nozzle outlet diameter decreases, your average velocity at the nozzle outlet increases. I am referencing Bernoulli's equation for flow and the Darcy-Weisbach equation for friction losses.

[@WaterFaucet24]

More panels and repair the wind turbine then?

[@lesalley2086]

Great video Kris, clearly a passion and what a fantastic effort from Dot. keep up the good work guys love everything you do.

[@TheTubeTube2]

Really interesting Krys. For the first time I’ve begun to learn about taking the vital measurements and reasoning behind such an installation, thank you for your thoroughness! I like the ideas here about saving the fallen oak bole.

[@livingladolcevita7318]

Personally I would harvest the main trunk of that oak and leave the rest for nature, given the price of timber.

[@billd.akaevylaz754]

Outstanding video. I have seen quite a few build videos, but I don't remember anyone going into any detail about their cost/benefit analysis before. I very much enjoyed it. Thank you!

[@allonesame6467]

I am not a number cruncher, but I don't let that scare me from following a line of thought. As far as education and entertainment goes I thought this video fills a void. I had some "Ah-Hah!" moments! Need to read up on what MPPT controller does, it's function and why it is used over other controllers. Very interesting and informative. Thank you. And tip 'o the hat to your lovely assistant, Dot! My! What a beautiful sweater! Cheers!

[@bojyles]

Thanks for the ten minutes of numbers! I'm not looking to build a hydro electric system, but I do like numbers. Anyone who has knowledge on an interesting topic and can explain it well is worth listening to. You explained it well. I especially enjoyed hearing the problem solving options around maximum power output weighed against the increased cost of materials. If nothing else I learned there is a lot more to it than just pointing water at a turbine. I have a small homestead in Vermont USA. Solar power, gardens and fruit trees, chickens, barn with woodworking space. I've lived here for almost 2 decades and I'm not done with projects I've been planning for 10+ years. (Extreme cold winters and feet of snow slow down the pace for sure) I enjoy your videos for the amount of effort you put into each project and seeing how long it takes to see things through. I also like the numbers you throw in. For example: you expanded your garden and calculated the new garden bed will produce X amount of additional kilos food. You had an actual number for the kilos of food produced per square meter of garden. I look at a garden bed and think "Yay more room for tomatillos!" Keep up the awesome videos! Please don't run out of projects so we can keep getting videos with numbers

[@BuddyCrotty]

Is it possible to use a slightly smaller nozzle diameter to increase the velocity or does that not matter since the volume is still the same?

[@acpi314]

That would only reduce the flow rate. Nozzle outlet velocity is mostly determined by nozzle input pressure. Though lower flow rate would mean less friction losses in the pipe, so slightly higher nozzle inlet pressure and outlet velocity…

[@ade63dug]

This may be showing my ignorance Kris , can you relocate your turbine to a point where the head of water is at an equal drop to balance the flow . this would probably cause a lot of work I guess . Very interesting subject . Have I mentioned that I am a generator engineer as well as a tool maker. lol always learning . Cheers Ade.

[@richardrodgers7583]

Very interesting video, thanks for sharing. In terms of pipes would it be viable to use sectional pipe like 110mm underground drainage at 6m long sections with appropriate joints and bends to follow the contours of land? Or would there be too much friction at each joint leading to too much flow loss. Just thinking about workability compared to battling with a roll of pipe

[@bumptybump]

Kris, I wonder if you have considered the potential ecological impacts on the other stream from which you intend to dam and take water from? This water will be lost from the stream for the remainder of its course. In Scotland, there are strict controls on abstraction. I suspect this may also be the case in England. There are 'hands off 'flows' which are designed to protect the ecology under low flow conditions. Similarly, every stream may support fish and these ought to be considered.Normally any hydro installation will have to have approval by the regulator (in Scotland - SEPA, in England this will be the EA I expect). They will normally require a fish and fish habitat assessment to inform their decision making. Once satisfied that a scheme may operate, they will grant permission with strict limits on the rate of abstraction. Similarly damming a steam may be frowned upon due to fish migration considerations. Happy to discuss these issues at length if you wish but I would be speaking from a Scottish fisheries perspective and you may wish to seek advice from the EA or a local fisheries trust in the first instance. Of course you may have already considered these issues but I thought it worth mentioning as they are important and often specialist surveys cost developers considerable outlays before they even get started making power.

[@twestgard2]

I can imagine there are places where this kind of regulation is a valid overall benefit to the environment, especially if there’s an especially sensitive ecosystem or rare species. But the ecological benefit of generating one’s own power on site is pretty high. Transmission inefficiency is extremely high in ordinary mains power and what’s the fuel for your mains generation? Coal? Nuclear? It’s pretty hard to beat on-site hydro for ecological benefit, especially in a location that’s famously rainy.

[@bumptybump]

@@twestgard2 I don't for one minute disagree that hydro can be beneficial and far cleaner and greener energy than most others, but with Kris aiming to become a hydro consultant, it is essential he understands the damage that can be done to ecosystems by poorly designed schemes. This site may not be that sensitive but others might. Key is finding ways to do things without impacting even the most ubiqutous species and habitats. That's fundamental to sustainability. Regulations are there to protect species and habitat and while some may not agree with the regulations, they shouldn't be ignored. We all have to find ways to reduce our footprint and impact. Kris just needs to be aware and take advice so he doesn't make mistakes or cause damage inadvertently. I fully support his project and the fantastic work he does..

[@kameljoe21]

I can not wait to see where you pull the 2nd penstock from. I asked or talked about this once. I will be back later to watch the video, excited to see what is up!

[@christopherforder8966]

I’m never good at numbers but you explained this really way and I got what you were talking about. I thought I would get lost but I understood it all. I find this really interesting on how it’s all figured out and I never knew how much went into doing a survey like this, I knew it had a decent amount of input to do this but find it very fascinating how you come to these conclusions. Also love the fact your car goes everywhere with you!!

[@billstory8034]

I've been around a long time, and have never seen anyone who could communicate with a cat the way Kris can.