Adding Rigid Foam to the Outside of a House (2 of 2)

[@MegsCarpentry-lovedogs]

Thank you ☺👍for including some details that generally get left out, like Not cutting the stretch tape at the corners of the windows completely to ensure that the corner is still covered. I guess Zip stretch tape is now made so that no partial cut is needed. Things change over a 6 yrs period and there will be more changes in the future I am sure. I have an extension planned several months from now. Your video is part of the overall study in building science applications and material. Now, to find a builder to help me and who has people who are belt and suspender type of attitudes....paying attention, having patience, to do the sequencing correctly is another matter. Outside envelope and top of roof insulation are the assemblies sketched. Stay safe, glad this Covid pandemic is over!!! Now building materials are coming down in price....slowly.....cheers from East Canada 🇨🇦🍁

[@shakejones]

Great explanation+presentation! Thank you for sharing! Well done mate 🙏🏻

[@ProTradeCraft]

Glad you found it useful.

[@shaecloud4403]

I did this to my rv! Never saw anyone doing it before I did it!

[@siding8]

I’m a siding contractor in Seattle and I’ve always thought this is the way a house should be built but I can only imagine the expense accrued for this igloo cooler type home.

[@ProTradeCraft]

Think of the expense of all the energy that pours out of leaky homes. The cost of energy goes up on average 6% per year, but the cost of insulation that is already bought and installed never goes up. Also, people get sidetracked as if cost is the only issue. Health, comfort, and durability are three more benefits. I would love to see people complain about the payback period of big-screen TVs and smartphones, but we all buy them knowing they will never "pay for themselves." In siding-land, if you are doing a residing job, it is the absolute cheapest opportunity (aside from t=when the house was built) to significantly improve the house. The vast majority of the cost is the siding and the truckload of people to the site to tear off and replace the siding. Plus, exterior insulation is required by code in many climate zones now.

[@treystills]

I've gained more knowledge in the practical application in a few minutes here than Risingers total channel and Builders Guide to cold climates. Its no dig on either of those gentlemen but just highlights the beautiful simplicity of your channel. Thank you!

[@datmayne]

Great video. Thanks for sharing the details.

[@douglasthompson2740]

It would seem that your metal flashing at the water table (bottom of the foam) being 'U' shaped will hold water right at the point it wants to exit the rain screen? Wouldn't a 'Z" style of metal be better? I know the designed drain is behind the foam but the flashing was stated to have been 'siliconed' to the wall before the foam was applied. Good topic. My feeling is the foam is better butted to a solid board around windows and doors even if it has to be built out. I think flexible flashing tape is a poor way to finish off a raw foam edge around a window or other penetration. On another note; I would sure like to see some fifteen year old installations to see if that seam tape actually adheres long term. Take care. Doug

[@baxtronx5972]

They will need to add some speed holes. 😂

[@philintime1984]

This looks great thanks for the video. One question... After applying all of that great insulation I'm surprised you drilled through it with a metal screw. Thus creating a thermal bridge directly into the existing wall structure. Perhaps I'm overthinking this however it seems like so many thermal bridges spanning the whole detail would surely reduce the U value by a considerable amount? If someone knows the answer to this would be super keen to understand?? would it be possible to replace the metal screws with a plastic screws/fixures of some type? Thanks in advance - p

[@ProTradeCraft]

Yes, screws are thermal bridges, but like orders of magnitude less thermal bridge area than framing lumber. If only they made screws out of insulation! Thanks for the intelligent question.

[@Lawiah0]

@@ProTradeCraft see: "composite screw"

[@g0band]

How do you nail off siding overlaps if you only have the furring strips?

[@mikecampanella1990]

So how did you guys make a now recessed window work with the four inches of exterior foam? I'd love to know a trick so I don't have to remove all of my windows and build new window boxes!

[@victorl.6128]

Check out CCHRC - Cold Climate Housing Research Centre Nome Alaska, or Reina builders in Alaska. You will want to move your windows to the exterior of the envelope but not all the way otherwise you waste your time and money. Too much conductivity in this house will have dry rot and/or condensation issues.

[@mikeparker5008]

Yup.

[@patriciakenny9976]

Foil faced foam is vapor impermeable, so aren't you trapping all the interior vapor on the inside surface of the inner foam panel? That seems to be a breeding space for mold to grow on the wood framing. Why not use a breathable vapor permeable product such as BASF Neopor or rockwool?

[@ProTradeCraft]

no. the wall can dry to the inside because there is no vapor barrier and the cavity insulation is cellulose. But good question.

[@stevecrawford6958]

​@@ProTradeCraft christine williamson would disagree with you, she said not to use foil in climate zone 5, as the wall can't dry in both directions. i get that this might not have been known when this was done, we all did dumb things 6 years ago.

[@CougarLand]

6" screw going through 4 3/4 of firing strip and foam. So it hits 1/2 wall, then has only 3/4" left for going into the stud...so a total of 1 1/4" is holding it in?

[@brianwilless1589]

Sounds right. 1 1/4". I wish they had shown the siding around the windows!

[@brianwilless1589]

No the fir strips are 1/2". On another video they said 1x3 so .5x2.5

[@brianwilless1589]

makes 1 1/2 inch holding. 1" into the stud if you hit it!

[@brianwilless1589]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWaQhWaMqKtrbas

[@geoffrobinson7104]

As a Structural Engineer, firring strips hung on 6" screws cantilevering 4" thru foam into 1/2" OSB or plywood is pretty damn poor detail. Two or three years down the road the owner will likely start noticing the siding dropping (or sagging) because of the screws bending (you hit the stud) or rotating (you only hit the panel). Think about running a 6" #8 screw 1/2" or 1.5" into a beam or wall, then hanging a weight on it 4" - 4.5" out from the wall. The screw will either rotate or slowly bend. The siding or paneling weight and cyclic wind and temp cycles will cause service issues. Just adding foam to the outside of a home without supporting the outer layer is a recipe for disaster. Just another green idea that will cause service and maintenance issues in a few years. Not to mention filling the land fills with foam when the owner gets fed up and has the foam ripped off the home to be replaced by the latest energy saving idea. This detail gets worse if you are in a high wind location. This is an issue not really thought through well.

[@rogerhale6404]

with all those screws going in.....make sure none go into any wires in the walls

[@brianwilless1589]

I'd like to see the kind of siding and how the windows are dealt with.

[@brianwilless1589]

Found it! kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWaQhWaMqKtrbas

[@ProTradeCraft]

Sure thing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGjCY3yFgc13n5Y and kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWaQhWaMqKtrbas

[@ProTradeCraft]

and: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5jbmIOVmLeoras and: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6DUmnqta66Lmrc

[@rachelemrick8087]

could do without the music-need to hear the speaker-good instructions

[@BN-ul5is]

@@ProTradeCraft The music is too loud, relative to the narrative voice.

[@troychapman7245]

No music

[@hoodmonk]

This may be a stupid question. Is this house a new build or is this foam being added as a retrofit? (After the fact) I own a home that is cinderblock and doesn't have any insulation at all Is system a solution?

[@argotungsten4336]

What’s the R-value on ur insulation job ?

[@argotungsten4336]

ProTradeCraft .com Nice job. They should even get frozen pipes with this . I used foil tape over the aluminum side when I insulated the inside of my parents basement (older home). What do u guys think of Roxul insulation for the inside of the home ? It’s pricier than fiber glass , but has good properties. Do u guys ever use this ?

[@geoffrobinson7104]

R-4 per inch of foam .... so it adds R20 plus a little for the siding. Having said that.... see my comment that this method is a poor one because the siding outside the is supported by screws cantilevering 4.5". This is not a good detail. Probably proposed by some PhD that has no building experience. The screws will bendand the siding and foam layer will eventually sag. Yes.... I know what I am talking about. I am a practicing structural engineer with a lot of testing experience at material failure and material behavior under load.

[@peter_kelly]

@@geoffrobinson7104With polyisocyanurate insulation it's only a value of R-4 per 1 inch at 75 degrees with new material. Factoring in for thermal drift and degraded performance of polyiso at lower winter temperatures in Massachusetts (climate zone 5) this project would've been much better served with a thinner amount of XPS or EPS over the long term.

[@timgleason2527]

@@peter_kelly where are we getting r4? I thought new, warm polyiso was closer to 6/in, then drifting downward with age and temp.

[@MLFBuilt]

@@geoffrobinson7104 It seems you are not taking into account that the screw is being supported for the 4.5". The rigid insulation and the wood strap distribute the load out like a cone from the head of the screw. And there are screws every 16 to 24" OC. The small load of siding will not deflect this load. Not even under severe wind conditions.

[@biker55555]

The inside of the wall covered with this polyiso would never dry should it ever get wet, not like that happens. Not like roofs or windows leak, I mean roofers are known for their great work! Good job, green builders! :D

[@TopTen-tc4xo]

like this video

[@garyrosewag7706]

A vapor barrier and poly iso on top with more poly iso on top? pray it doesn't get wet. even though this is in MA it still seams like too many vapor barriers kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpXRfYKsYt-ZldE

[@ChrisMaveric]

Great video... terrible music...

[@ProTradeCraft]

BOOO!

[@mikeparker5008]

Wayyy too much investment in materials and labor for what the homeowner will EVER hope to receive in lower energy costs! IMO, a good idea taken much too far! 1 layer of 1" or 2" would have done the most 'capture' you could ever hope for...air sealing is much more important than increasing R value, and all insulation professionals know this... But - hey - a good living might be had by selling enviro-mental people overkill insulation, so don't let me stand in your way!! Oh, what a good laugh...

[@BN-ul5is]

I guess you meant the overall wall R-value should be around R-23, instead of the current R-38. Am I correct? (Or, did you mean the overall wall R-value should be around R-13?)

[@jobney]

I'm eventually building new with an external membrane and thick insulation. My current 1981 house is never comfortable. If I knew I was going to be here for another fifteen to twenty years I would totally retrofit insulation over this block with stucco and airseal the crap out of it.

[@danbiss87]

One should be very careful applying new building methods to older homes. Especially when those older homes were built to breathe

[@ProTradeCraft]

"Built to breathe" makes zero sense semantically or from an engineering standpoint. No one knows what it means. People usually say it because they do not understand building science. If the house should not be tight, how many holes should I poke in the house, and how big should they be? Where should I poke them? Sorry, I don't mean to be a smart ass, but the statement is bullshit usually uttered by people who want to keep building crappy houses. Houses should be tight and well ventilated with something like an HRV or ERV. Well designed and built houses do not rot. Poorly designed and built (or REMODELED) houses do rot. This old ranch was gutted. New windows and doors were installed. Exterior insulation was added along with cavity insulation. It uses very little energy, is very comfortable (Look Ma, NO DRAFTS!), and is HEALTHY because the occupants have total control over indoor air quality. No soil gasses or dead squirrels from the crawlspace, no mold hidden in the walls, no moist corners. Half-measure retrofits can cause problems. Retrofitting without accounting for physics causes problems. Hiring an engineering/Architecture firm like Building Science Corporation to specify details, like those in this house, SOLVES problems.

[@danbiss87]

@@ProTradeCraft Your from mass so you should be very familiar with balloon framing. When people say older homes were meant to breathe they are talking about the way it was framed which allowed moisture mitigation. The moisture that gets through from the exterior or condensation from the dewpoint within the cavity traveled up the walls into the attic and ventilated out. Thats how balloon framing worked. You should know that, I thought I was talking to a professional that didn't need explaining too.... By adding the rainscreen as you did here it allows the moisture to dry out behind the siding, its the same thing, your giving room for any moisture that gets through the exterior a means to escape. Your allowing it to breathe just in a different place in as earlier days.