ADG Episode 208 - Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos

[@sonic-bb]

man dos games on rainy days was my childhood. The way the music and sound effects just hit. This game hits just the right spot as well. thank you for sharing :)

[@ThorGordonBoysen]

What a great, great game it was😊 Eye of the Beholder 1&2 and Legend of Kyrandia were also nice. Good old times! 🥰🥰🥰

[@RetroIslandGaming]

Best part of the game is beating it and getting the creepy full screen shot of your main character's detailed face. I had nightmares for days as a kid, because I beat it with Michael. Wait that sounds so wrong... Uhh, anyway, I find it interesting you didn't like this game so much. I don't remember having those spawning issues. I played the CD version before GOG's was available. The game is perfect for people looking to get their first crack at a 3D maze RPG. Great video review as always, Kris! Even if I don't agree with your conclusions on the game (I still say Jill of the Jungle is good also!), I appreciate hearing other peoples opinions. Not many people who still play DOS games :P

[@DieWeltIstSchlecht]

You should have played it longer. This game gets ridiculously tough later on. So if you like a challenge, play it through to the end :)

[@SEGAClownboss]

The rotating tiles are a an inherited mechanic from the Wizardry games, and they were bullshit even then.

[@DamienCooley]

I would have never remembered playing this game, but this brought it all back. I feel like I played it a lot.

[@MrVincentMoon]

One of my favorite games of all time! I liked Eye of the Beholder I, and II even more, but Lands of Lore I blew my mind at the time. I was very disappointed that II and III changed the game style. Thanks for this review. I really enjoyed it (even though I disagree with you: this game was amazing).

[@matternicuss]

Played through this game for the first time only a few years ago. Minus a few headaches (inventory!) I really enjoyed this game. It’s simple enough that it’s a good introduction for folks new to the genre, but it gets far more difficult later on. The story and setting were pretty charming too.

[@iareanon]

You can also run this game in ScummVM where it works perfectly.

[@BastetFurry]

This! Works like a charm.

[@BastetFurry]

Love this game :D Hint: Keep the "Swarm" one use weapons till you reach a certain enemy that takes forever to grind down otherwise, it is highly allergic to that weapon. [ROT13]Gur jbez ng gur ragenapr bs gur zvarf.[/ROT13] And if you encounter any ghosts, they can only be hurt by magic and magical weaponry.

[@majmunx9703]

One of my favorite DOS RPGs!

[@talesfromtheclassroom]

I don't think the reviewer is ill-intentioned, ,but I have to say: this is absolutely one of the very best games ever made, and criminally underrated.

[@Pixelmusement]

In the face of nostalgia it's always important to remember that the more you already understand a game, the easier it is to play. Certain systems/mechanics which work fine once you're experienced can actually be a major hindrance for those without. I found this game to be an extreme case of this since it only starts bogging you down if you don't know what you're doing or where to go. :P

[@davedgd]

Thanks for the review Kris!

[@idspispopd1675]

Huh. I actually guessed it right, sort of didn't see that coming! I also have to comment that not all spells are the same simply by casting a higher level version of the spell... Level 3 heal will actually cure poison, and level 4 heal will cure the party.... Ok, on second thought, maybe that's the only change in the spells... Speaking of magic, the best gauge to tell how much damage a spell or ranged attack is doing is the blood splatter assuming the attack wasn't a killing blow. With any luck, my memories aren't playing tricks on me.

[@aliceg3184]

I was gonna post corrections about the inventory scrolling and the spell levels having different effects, but other people have already done that (though Freeze and Hand of Fate also have different effects at higher levels in addition to Heal). So instead I'm just gonna say thank you for covering one of my favorite games of all time, even if you didn't like it all that much.

[@garyleigh]

I remember playing this game and enjoying it till the end. I clearly had way more time on my hands back then.

[@patriktschenett]

Hey Gemini! I love your reviews! I usually just quietly watch your episodes. Sometimes we have different opinions and that is okay. ;-) Lands of Lore is one of my favorite games of all time and so I thought, I'll write something small. I love the game and I honestly think it gets better and better the further you progress. The Draracle caves are sort of the low point of the game in my opinion. The inventory isn't so bad: You can scroll entire pages of item when pressing the arrows with your right mouse button. :-) I love Eye of the Beholder - especially part 2 - but I honestly think the more streamlined way LOL handles everything makes it a superior game.

[@QuintusCunctator]

Pat 9496 Yep, right clicking for faster inventory scrolling is a life saver! Personally, I always had the most trouble with the last dungeon: I re-played the game through some months ago, and I still forgot to take a key item with me...

[@Pixelmusement]

+QuintusCunctator +Pat 9496 I thought for sure I tried right clicking and still only getting one unit of scroll at a time... I'll have to check that again and post a correction if you guys are right about that. :o

[@QuintusCunctator]

No problem! Since the inventory had no scrolling animation, one could get confused between two similar slot windows, especially with lots of identical items. There are a lot of kinks like this in old games UIs, and seeing how much they have evolved with time is one of the charms of playing old games, I think.

[@patriktschenett]

Awesome! Glad, we could help.

[@Eshaktaar]

This is one of my favorite RPGs, and thanks to ScummVM, it runs on almost any Android device. The GUI works extremely well with touch controls. My advice: Play it on the easiest difficulty. This reduces grinding drastically, but you still get the whole experience.

[@feamatar]

The Draracle cave is a bit difficult, but I never experienced the spawn issues you mention, or at least I cannot remember, even if I played with the GOG version last year. I mean yeah, sometimes it is a bit annoying, but I luckily never was overwhelmed by the enemies.

[@gamedover9481]

Love your intro. Great job on the review!

[@rkornilo]

Of course this game wasn't THE greatest but I do have fond memories of playing it back then. It was the floppy version though, so no extended voices, but I did have a Gravis Ultrasound and upgraded it to 1MB RAM (Ooooo! :-) so I was able to emulate a Roland wavetable soundcard and so improved the music drastically. Not merely for the gameplay, but with the theatrical way Westwood made their games along with the music made it quite an enjoyable experience. By the way, you could have let the intro play, don't think it would have detracted from your presentation.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Ryan Korniloff There's a number of issues why I don't let intros play out, partly because I'd rather just get to the commentary, partly because people could just watch them themselves when they get the game, but mostly because of KZbin's Content-ID system. :P

[@rkornilo]

I stand corrected - by myself. I now remember I did NOT have my Gravis Ultrasound yet. I went and listened to the music again through various youtube postings and realized I had never heard the wavetable version before. Silly me. :-/ But I still did enjoy the music in it's FM Ad-Lib format. KZbin's Content-ID: That one reason alone is justification enough to leave it out of your video...

[@2HeadedHero]

One of my favorites of all time. Too bad the rest in the series don't even come close.

[@Youareallonlineidiot]

in the GOG version i find no enemy spawn other than the draracle cave, anywhere else i can grind?

[@kylesturgis5889]

Youareallonlineidiot there’s a button in castle cimmeria that spawns the flying hatchets. You can farm those, albeit a little too late considering you’re almost done the game haha

[@JonasRosenven]

There is a fantastic and very easy to use save editor called Scotia. You can edit everything from party members and xp to items and spells. mougino.free.fr/scotia.html

[@IllidanS4]

Nice, it looks like Gates of Skeldal.

[@SevenDeMagnus]

New subscriber here.

[@ChoJin]

Fantastic Rpg!

[@Darkstar2342]

You know what? I'd be really interested in how you'd rate Might and Magic 4+5 (World of Xeen). It was a very simple dungeon crawler with hundreds of maps and monsters, but with a very wacky (almost non-existing) story. The gameplay, however, was quite enjoyable, and the game poked fun at many other CRPGs out there. I thoroughly enjoyed playing it back then, although I admit it probably doesn't hold up very well by today's standards

[@NeilRoy]

I never played these and was always curious about them. I am SO GLAD I never played them. That is just the sort of game that would piss me off too much. When I only get pissed off playing a game, than it's not worth playing.

[@andrewdupuis1151]

Great game I have brought it on gog few weeks ago all 3 games

[@dark0rock]

12:10 - You can get through the inventory faster, right click instead of left clicking will jump forward 9 items instead of 1. Thank me later.

[@1xWertzui]

Now that you put it, this game appears to be more of a somewhat linear point-n-click adventure game in the wrapping of an Eye of the Beholder almost-sequel than an RPG. Now I don't wonder that I could get into it easily, (the genre of RPGs was always too "mysterious" for me).

[@CosmicCosmo1]

How did you get it fullscreen and not autofit to lanscape? Gog version opens in full scrren stretch. Also your frame rate is better than mine

[@Pixelmusement]

+Olaf The Mighty You'll need to adjust the DOSBox settings. When I mention them at the end of each video, I mention changes to the DEFAULTS. Games downloaded from GOG may not use the defaults. Download a copy of DOSBox on its own and use those defaults as a base. You may also want to make other changes which I don't typically go into such as changing the output mode to opengl.

[@JimLeonard]

Maybe the spawn rates were high because cycles=max? I never had that much trouble with it on a 386dx-40.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Jim Leonard Actually, typically when recording I have to use fixed cycles counts and so ALL of my recorded gameplay was at 30,000 fixed cycles. I didn't notice any appreciable difference in spawn rates between that and max cycles when I was testing prior to recording.

[@patriktschenett]

I also never had problems with spawn rates. Neither when playing on an original 486 years ago nor in DOSBox. However, I play with fixed cycles around 10k to 15k - I have to check this evening. I rarely use max or auto cycles.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Pat 9496 There's always the possibility that this is a matter of preference, but again, it also depends on how easily players get through the puzzles since the more time you spend in an area, the more troublesome the spawn rate becomes. It's also more of an issue the more backtracking you have to do, which again, isn't something which generally happens if you know how to get through everything.

[@JimLeonard]

Pixelmusement 30,000 cycles is well into the Pentium II range. In the future you may want to tune DOSbox using TOPBENCH's real-time benchmark function so that DOSbox can more closely match the game's target hardware.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Jim Leonard Well, I downloaded TOPBENCH, dialed the game back to a little bit above its minimum system requirements so it wouldn't play super-slow (aimed for 33 MHz), ran some tests and... nope. Enemy spawn rates are still insane. Walked around a particular area, cleared the enemies out, walked around a bit more, came back to the same area just a minute later and FIVE enemies had spawned within it. Also, the game was harder to control at the lower cycles setting because it introduced a delay between each movement made and would buffer each move. Combined with enemies still moving at the same speed as at higher cycles settings and this actually made the game HARDER because you couldn't escape or reposition for combat as quickly as at a faster cycles setting. I didn't think high cycles were the cause for the spawn rate because nothing else in the game was showing evidence of this kind of timing behaviour.

[@thermallance7947]

You can right click in the inventory

[@officernarc]

Hey Kris, I was just wondering how to send you games. Do you have a post office you feel comfortable giving out to strangers online? Or is it just digital releases?

[@Pixelmusement]

+death becomes her Send me an eMail to let me know what you're wanting to send first and then we can go from there. :B

[@SigmaSotong]

so at 12:20 regarding having to scroll through menu one item at a time that is not entirely true. Right-clicking the arrows cycles between entire 9-sets making inventory management WAAAY more convenient. pity dem who didn't figure this out and cycled 1 single item at a time omgwtf don't do that maannn

[@OisEucalypt]

I played through this back in early 2015, with the intention of moving onto the sequel shortly afterwards. I guess I got distracted as it is still unplayed. Definitely agree with the respawning enemies issue. Made some parts of the game a real slog to get through.

[@HunterZBNS]

Wasn't Eye of the Beholder also heavily derivative of the Dungeon Master series? I'm a sucker for these old first-person dungeon crawlers, although I prefer ones that focus more an RPG aspects (character development, etc.) than on puzzle solving. Also, if you like puzzler dungeon crawlers, the Legend of Grimrock series is a well-reviewed modern incarnation.

[@Pixelmusement]

+HunterZBNS I'm actually not a huge fan of the genre. I do have Legend of Grimrock and it's a well made game but I find I don't enjoy playing it. Just not my thing, really. :P

[@HunterZBNS]

I understand where you're coming from. When it comes to the puzzle crawlers, I generally like the idea more than the actual thing, so while I own a bunch I've never really completed any of them.

[@Pixelmusement]

+HunterZBNS Not that I don't like any. Dungeon Hack's pretty fun and when it comes to 3D dungeon crawls I much prefer the ones with more instantaneous feedback similar to a 2D dungeon crawl, with Moraff's World being one such example. :B

[@Redfoxe]

Really like this game, have however not finished it, am stuck in the final dungeon. Worst were the damn ghosts in the tower, attack trough walls!

[@JonasRosenven]

Maybe the scotia editor can help you. mougino.free.fr/scotia.html

[@TetsuyaTsurugi]

I played a similar game called "Ishar Legend Of The Fortress". It was a boring game, but I love it! XD

[@KaroKoenich]

Do you plan to review Stonekeep at some point?

[@Pixelmusement]

+KaroKoenich Probably. I do indeed own a copy, there's just been lots of other stuff taking priority so no idea how soon or later it'll be. :P

[@LpSC2online]

"Higher spell levels don't offer any benefits or deficiencies compared to lower spell levels." This information is plain wrong. You always want to cast higher-level spells to reap benefits and to level up fast. Damage does not increase in a linear way. Sparks IV deals 60 damage while Sparks III only deals 25 damage. The downside is the highly increased mana cost. Leveling up the mage level feels so rewarding because now you can finally use higher-level spells. I am working on a magic-only run currently, so I know what I am talking about when it comes to that particular aspect of the game.

[@Pixelmusement]

It's possible I didn't get far enough in then to see the major benefits to the highest level spells because what I said definitely applies to the lower levels, but yeah, if there's THAT big of a damage difference between Sparks III and IV and the mana cost isn't doubled or more then yeah, it would be better to cast IV over III. :B

[@LpSC2online]

@@Pixelmusement I see you have played Michael in that video. Michael's magic damage output is bugged, so he deals the most damage with it. So it might be harder to notice the difference between Sparks I or II or between Sparks II and III.

[@SevenDeMagnus]

Thanks. What was the best looking DOS (PC-DOS or MS-DOS) 2D game of all time and what was the best looking 3D DOS game of all time (it can include games that run on Windows ME for Me is merely just a shell of MS-DOS)? Thank you. God bless, Proverbs 31

[@Pixelmusement]

+SevenDeMagnus Windows 95/98/ME are actual operating systems. They do come with a version of DOS they can be run on top of, but they suppress DOS in the process, taking total control of the system. As for the "best looking" 2D/3D DOS games out there, that's a purely subjective call. I would say one of the most graphically advanced 3D DOS games which isn't using hardware acceleration is "Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri", as it is able to do distant terrain rendering and reflections MANY YEARS before hardware acceleration could do these things properly! :O

[@SevenDeMagnus]

Thanks. That's interesting. Our first 3D accelerated card was S3 Virge (or I think it was Cirrus Logic). What was the last 3D accelerated DOS game (any kind of DOS)? Thank you. By the way, does DosBox use FreeDOS and is FreeDOS not compatible with PC-DOS and DR-DOS, though I think there wasn't any exclusive games or apps for the PC-DOS and DR-DOS and I think what they had, MS-DOS had first?

[@Pixelmusement]

+SevenDeMagnus I don't think Cirrus Logic ever made any 3D accelerator cards, though I could be mistaken. Not sure what the last DOS game to support hardware acceleration in DOS was, but there weren't all that many in the first place as DOS was already being phased out once accelerator cards started to become more common. DOSBox is an emulator, not a virtual machine, so it doesn't actually use any normal version of DOS and is its own thing.

[@user-ht2js9xx3p]

You didn't even beat the game. The game gets more difficult.

[@Rando1975]

Great RPG!

[@Wormetti]

I can think of many games that have 6 different activities but most wouldn't have 10 programmers.

[@PzAufklLehrBtl3]

These hints are absolutely useless. He should either give some real hints or let it be.

[@Wormetti]

The clues are good, most episodes are correctly guessed. I'm still not sure for this one. I listened again and he said it was an Activity Center program. All the Disney Activity Center games are for Windows 3.1 or later, so not sure if they could be used for an ADG episode. There are some non Disney activity center programs for DOS but I haven't found one that fits.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Max Mustermann This time around I would agree, not the greatest hint, but I seriously couldn't give any more of one without giving it away; I tried for nearly half an hour to come up with ANYTHING better that wouldn't be blatantly obvious. :P

[@PzAufklLehrBtl3]

It's all good. I was a little bit too harsh. Really appreciate your channel and the effort you put in it.

[@speedy3523]

You state the scroll button only scrolls 1 item at a time. This is not true, you can scroll more using the right mouse button :)

[@Pixelmusement]

+Justin Yup! This was pointed out shortly after the video went live earlier this year so I added a correction to the video description back then! ;)

[@speedy3523]

Pixelmusement Oops! Didn't read the description. Sorry :)

[@DarioRuellan]

My memories of this game are quite similar to the review. I was impressed by the production quality, the simplified mechanics and the point and click interface was nice, but when the wow factor wash out, the gameplay was no so impressive.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Darío Ruellan There's still a lot OF gameplay for those who enjoy it though. I'm told the game averages about 20 hours playtime for those who at least know a bit about what's ahead of them. :B