ADHD & Entrepreneurship

[@petrahoggarth1437]

I have an ADHD client who identifies as an intrapreneur. Their multiple previous attempts to start or take over already established businesses crashed and burned in varying dramatic and impulsive ways. Their current role of maximum autonomy within someone else's business has worked really well for twice as long as any other job they have held. They think it is down to needing structure to keep them in check, but also having the ability to do what they want when they want with the confidence of the business owner. I imagine it is pretty rare to find such a position.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

Yes, but what a great opportunity for them to have found. Thanks for sharing it.

[@fraufuchs9555]

That makes so much sense. You've just explained to me what happened in my life. During years I had jobs I could only keep for a couple of months and I hated them so much. But 7 years ago a school invited me to teach for their adult classes. I'm not an employee, they pay me as an independent contractor, I sign a new contract for each new course (those last 2 months). I've never been so happy in my life. I have the structure (location, date, time, etc) but also a lot of freedom. No boss to control anything, I can do whatever I want, teach how I want, and that opens a lot of opportunities for creativity. I decide everything inside my classroom as long as the participants are happy at the end.

[@plsnodoxing]

I am diagnosed ADHD and this is true for me. I basically do whatever I want in the business, I'm less punished on structure / routine though I probably need to increase / improve that. I've left this business a couple times for different positions and even for running my own business. Dipping my toes in all these areas has allowed me to be a jack of all trades in this small family owned business I work at which has got me where I am today.

[@ejclearwater]

Omg! That explains so much! That's me!

[@Relayzy1]

That sounds absolutely like something i can relate to, structure and freedom, perfect! (Were can i buy that?!)

[@CarenMagill]

This is a topic close to my heart. As someone with a clinical diagnosis (and anxiety), entrepreneurship has been a goal for me my entire working life in order to have control over my time, space and energy. It has not been an easy path. I failed at 5 businesses before my current one (which is doing very well). Overall, I think solopreneurship has served me well, but I wish I had not only a diagnosis sooner (got it at 51) but also, I wish I knew that it was possible to be successful with ADHD in your own way. Thanks for this Dr. Barkley!

[@tidehunter4082]

Stable employment is something I'm particularly terrible at. I currently run a software consultancy after giving up on the idea of working for someone. I've held 14 positions roughly in the near 29 years I've been alive. 9 of those were professional and almost 80% I've been fired from. I'm just bad at being a real employee for someone, however I'm great at meeting business needs and resolving problems. Self employment checks the boxes for me. My only MASSIVE flaw is that sometimes I just can't. I just can't climb the wall for the final deliverable. I'm trying to grow my org to take over work that I fail to deliver, as I realize I need to augment what I'm good at and not try to eat the frogs anymore. It's just not effective. I also do think that my ASD has played a strong role in my success and difficulties as well. 4 years of stable self employment earning 120k+ year through my own contracts and negotiations. I have to say I'm pretty proud to make it this far.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

And well you should be. Be well.

[@DallasMcMillan]

Save some frogs for others :-) Good luck and thanks for sharing your journey.

[@leonb19191]

Great breakdown. I am diagnosed ADHD and an entrepreneur with multiple successful businesses. Your description of ADHD symptoms being more prevalent amongst entrepreneurs, but that not meaning ADHD is a predictor of entrepreneurial success by itself seem spot on with my anecdotal experience. I'm part of entrepreneur community that has a distinct lifestyle/travel focus... essentially people running successful businesses in pursuit of a 4 hour work week/digital nomad lifestyle. From personal observation, the rates of ADHD in this community are extremely high. I know I'm not equipped to provide a clinical diagnosis from a few conversations with an individual at an event... but I'd say that 20%-30% at a minimum clearly display symptoms that indicate a high-likelihood of having ADHD. However, they are almost always also highly intelligent, creative and resourceful people. Most are undiagnosed or only recently diagnosed - their intelligence has meant they've often developed sophisticated workarounds to their disorder without realising that's what they're doing... and the most successful ones build their business in a way that plays to their strengths and is protected from the downsides. The U-curve you showed at the end of your video feels right... a certain "amount" of ADHD mixed with high intelligence and various personality traits can be a recipe for success. I've met many people with ADHD outside of business who are just not equipped in the same way, and it seems unlikely they'd make it as an entrepreneur. Some have many traits that would be helpful mixed with a couple that would almost guarantee failure. It's such a fine line - there is no way you can broadly say that having ADHD means you're more likely to make it as an entrepreneur. From my own experience, it took me about 8 years to figure myself out as an entrepreneur. There were many signs I could be good at it (enough to persevere), but it was accompanied by regular brushes with complete failure caused by my more self-destructive tendencies. There were many times I nearly wiped myself out completely. Getting diagnosed at the 7 year mark made a huge difference... the medication meant I could work far more consistently on business and the understanding of my own condition made my self-management strategies far more effective.

[@ruhaoofficial2787]

Hi @leonb19191 thank you for sharing your experience. I was wondering where and how exactly did you begin to manage your symptoms? I’ve got diagnosed this year and started to take meds. I’ve failed so many types of managements and I’m looking for a way to be like yourself, finding strategies to bring out strengths.

[@leonb19191]

@@ruhaoofficial2787 In some ways I began to manage them long before I knew I had ADHD. I started my business when I was 22, and it quickly made it apparent where I had issues - I just didn't know the cause. So I'd already developed a lot of self-management strategies over the years to try and get myself to do stuff. I was diagnosed at 29, and this was a huge leap forward. I was able to adapt my existing strategies with a better understanding of what was going on in my head... and I learned new strategies designed to work for me. Plus I had the benefit of medication which made it far easier to stay on track. I noticed the really big results happen at the 2-3 year post-diagnosis mark. The thing about this condition is that while the medication and some of the strategies start working immediately... what takes a long time to reprogram are all the messed up beliefs you've developed from years of banging your head against the wall and getting nowhere. It takes time to start accumulating new positive beliefs based on what the post-diagnosis you can accomplish. I would feel hesitation to taking things on because I feared failing them, and I had a lot of evidence to suggest I would. But slowly I realised the new version of me was actually capable of accomplishing those things. So the biggest thing is to become really aware of the stories you're telling yourself, and the emotions that are often driving procrastination and other bad habits. We have a tendency to suppress them because they're unpleasant, and we don't want to face unpleasant things when we're running low on dopamine already. But just the act of bringing them into the sunlight by vocalising them or writing them down robs them of a lot of their power, and you'll find you can progress and build new beliefs.

[@zb-mu5ju]

❤❤❤

[@mateolamuno6629]

I found this Entrepreneurship, Creativity, and IQ series really interesting and informative. When I read "The ADHD Advantage," a motivational self-help book about ADHD by Dale Archer, I felt really frustrated at the arbitrary enumeration of people with ADHD and their entrepreneurial success seemingly attributed to ADHD. I couldn't stop thinking that being creative, innovative, resourceful, and tolerant to risk and uncertainty are great attributes of the entrepreneur. But no business is built out of an idea alone; it's essential to have the ability to sustain the idea you've envisioned over time and to work consistently without immediate gratification. Based on this and my personal experience, I find ADHD to be a massive impediment to achieving success in life, and it wasn't until I accepted and embraced my diagnosis and its treatment that I finally started to see a positive change. I wish the mainstream or rogue media like Joe Rogan stopped romanticizing ADHD; it's perpetuating stereotypes and affecting our ability to receive quality and effective treatment. Having said that, I do wonder if there are any studies on how neurodivergence might or might not affect people's ability to develop attributes linked to creativity, entrepreneurship, or even "gifted" individuals by the simple fact that we spend a considerable amount of time figuring out the world around us in a way that requires us to develop ingenious ways to adapt and fit in. There may be a correlation between an individual's insight and their ability to recognize these patterns and develop these skills. Even if they can't get themselves to consistently apply them.

[@SMC01ful]

Absolutely.

[@sp123]

People like Rogan romanticize ADHD in things like sports where it can be an advantage, nowhere else

[@TylinaVespart]

I wound up self employed, with varying degrees of success. Sometimes it’ll go incredibly well, sometimes I’ll make very little for months. I think I’d be better at it without the impairment from my adhd, and being medicated certainly helped a bit. That said, it’s a better fit than corporate was. Working in small, clearly defined roles was actually much easier overall until the boredom kicks in. Happy in my choices, and being able to put my own accommodations in place is a bonus.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

I think that applies to many with adult ADHD. And using others for accountability is a good strategy too.

[@proudgoose]

Hey Dr Barkley, love the content, great video as always! I had an idea to make the content a bit more accessible, especially with the longer form videos that go on for 30+ minutes. TIMESTAMPS!!!!! There is a feature you can use while making the video to add timestamps to each individual section, to break it up into smaller chunks, that people can refer back to or watch again. Would be a great help for us ADHDers

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

OK. Thanks. I will try it. The long lectures are already made. But I can try it for new ones. Nice tip

[@proudgoose]

@@russellbarkleyphd2023 THANKS! I LOVE U

[@sonyaparkin7841]

Thank you for all you do Dr. Barkley, blessings to you 💛🙏🙏🙏

[@neptronix]

I'm in a startup incubator and i'd say the rate of ADHD is significantly higher than average in that complex. Of those people, they're often bouncing between a bunch of different enterprises usually, instead of focusing on one. It's kind of annoying because i also have ADHD and we can get too lost in chatting away about random shit instead of working. I have to avoid the ADHD people to stay focused.

[@dannybrown2695]

I have said so bad it is starting to effect my business, however my creativity is through the roof

[@WarmZZy]

Gender would also play a role here. ADHD symptoms are often attributed to positive/desirable entrepreneurial personality traits in men and the opposite in women. Things like directness and impulsiveness, even attributes like tolerance of failure all read as charisma from a masc. body and childishness from a fem one.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

I hope someone will study that issue.

[@mariannaark5899]

I much prefer the structure of being an employee than having to decide, plan, initiate etc everything by myself (I'm magically great at this as an employee). Other than my very fist job I've never been fired and most of my employer's have tried to retain me even though my country has pretty exploitative and abusive conditions. Now that due to health issues I have to study something in order to pursue work without manual labor I'm pretty useless and progress at a turtle's pace. This and rsd happen to be adhd experiences that are foreign to me.

[@vildewe]

Very informative presentation, Russell, thank you for sharing. During my own research, I've similarly observed that studies focusing on distinct symptom clusters has generally found that hyperactivity/impulsivity, rather than inattention, is more positively associated with entrepreneurship. However, newer research by Rajah et al. (2021) suggests that the traditional view of sensation-seeking as the primary driver for individuals with ADHD towards entrepreneurship might be oversimplified. Instead, these studies propose that the underlying motivation might be linked more closely to inattention-specifically, an inability to maintain interest in tasks over extended periods. Larger corporations often require "mundane, repetitive tasks", and individuals with ADHD symptoms seeks more control over their employed life - entrepreneurship is a vocation that grants more autonomy in job design and task allocation. I'd love to hear your take on this and how you think it might influence future research or practical approaches in our field.

[@jimgillespie7039]

Thank you. You helped my dad years ago, now helping me. Appreciate your work.

[@LAExposeTruthorTirade]

This is my life. I am in my 50s. I finished college and a thesis away form an MFA. I haven't finished this yet and its been 10 years. I have 17K rides driving ride share. Paid off 20K in IRS debt in the process. I always thought I was an entrepreneur but more self employed. I been fired from almost every job.

[@veilmontTV]

Id imagine the most common factor that influencers being an entrepreneur is socioeconomic status. The zip code of your birth in influences your outcome more than almost anything.

[@sp123]

Most people don't have the access to capital and experience to start a business

[@ave_rie]

I have a lot of business ideas piled up but the process of setting them up (paperwork, acquiring materials, executing) is very tedious and very difficult for me. I’m inattentive so there is always a huge chance of me missing a legal or administrative task. My corporate job is more tolerable as of the moment. For anyone who has adhd looking for some insight: we dont all have to be entrepreneurs, sometimes the actual work set up is much more important and having a structure run by a corporation/ talent agency might be beneficial.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

Yes, see comment above on being an intrapreneur.

[@iliyanovslounge]

This is really interesting.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

Thanks!

[@pavlova717]

The inverted U-shaped function seems very noteworthy. It would suggest that people diagnosed with ADHD are not really 'just like everyone else'. It would sugges they possess some traits to some such extreme that it's maladaptive.

[@welcome12ization]

And if someone has both clinically diagnosed autism AND ADHD, I expect there would be even more difficulty with being an entrepreneur.

[@Relayzy1]

It's both a course and a blessing, life isn't black or white (even if like too look at it that way). Wish we could meet, i would probably be a fascinating example for you.

[@sweetascandyxoxo]

ADHD Here. Being self-employed, where you must trade time for money, is a disadvantage. I could see how that could lead to earning less money and having less favourable outcomes (in some situations but not all cases) If you are self-employed through starting a company and do not trade time for money, then the rate of success in lifestyle and finances is higher. I have ADHD. I am a founder and entrepreneur. I do not trade my time for money. I will have a legacy to leave behind to future generations. I know people who are poor and who work for themselves but are past retirement, still scraping by working. Very sad. So that’s an important distinction. I am sure some people start trading time for money and eventually can hire people and move up, so to speak, in that regard, but it’s like you said, there are so many factors. It really should be broken down into more specific categories and then studied. Anyway, thank you for the lovely video. It goes like this. 1) Employee - you have a JOB, No leverage, 5% wealth 2) Self-Employed - you OWN a JOB, No leverage, 95% population Time = Money. 3) Business Owner - You Own a System, Leverage, 95% wealth People work with you for $$$$$ 4) Investor - You Own your Investments, Leverage, 5% Population. Your Money Works For You $$$$$ You don’t want to be in the first two categories. You can be; it used to be enough but nowadays, to get ahead, you need more. That is why I’m a business owner and working toward also becoming an investor. I’m nothing special. I have learning disabilities, ADHD, many mental illnesses and average intelligence (except linguistic is above). I have no education but a high school diploma and no special skills. It has much to do with mindset. I did not have anything given or passed onto me from family regarding business or assets like that. I got it all on my own. Read Think Rich, Grow Rich & The Secret. Failure is just temporary defeat. Remember, a quitter never wins, and a winner never quits. Take control of your Mindset & Take control of your life. Also, Do not forget to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. I died last summer and we live forever. In fact, I felt my feet on the floor as I watched my body lay dead on the bed. An angel was on the way to take me to heaven. I felt peace, love and I KNEW someone was coming to get me. I later learned in the King James Bible that when a believer dies an angel 😇 escorts them to heaven. After watching NDE people not going to heaven felt fear and dread, a 🕳 in the floor open up. Do not fear but pray the salvation prayer and know Jesus died for your sins because God can not let 1 sin into heaven. All 7 billion of us have sinned. Jesus walked this earth as the son of God born to a virgin. He never sinned and he shed his 🩸 on the cross. He died and went to hell for 3 days and 3 nights to pay for our sins. By accepting Jesus you accept this free gift 🎁 of salvation. Your sins are paid in full. Heaven is your home. Roman’s 10:9 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the lord Jesus and believe in thyne heart god hath raised him from the dead, thou shall be saved. John 3:16 Salvation prayer to be saved: Dear Heavenly Father, I confess…Jesus you are Lord. Father, I believe you raised him from the dead and I am saved. Fill me with your Holy Spirit. I repent of my sins. I live for you. Allow me to be born again and to have saving faith in what Jesus and you did for me and I pray this now, in Jesus name, Amen! 🎉❤ Congratulations 🥳 woo you just collected your ticket to heaven! Hallelujah. God is Good.

[@Relayzy1]

Damm you Jesus freaks get more and more creative! 😂

[@sp123]

​@@Relayzy1the irony is that he suggests reading The Secret when that book is considered blasphemy by most Christians

[@user-td6bd9bp5d]

Doctor I feel like Concerta dose 54 is not working what do I do is it a habit

[@user-td6bd9bp5d]

Please reply

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

I can’t give personal advice about med doses. Sorry.

[@user-td6bd9bp5d]

@@russellbarkleyphd2023 Well, does the dose, if appropriate, remain working without developing tolerance?

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

for most people, yes. But some experience habituation requiring and increase in dose or switching to a different medicine.

[@rubberbiscuit99]

I have ADHD. I paid out of pocket to see a psychiatrist known to be highly skilled and creative at prescribing ADHD meds. We arrived at a dosing schedule of 40mg vyvanse on weekends and 50mg vyvanse M-F, with daily intuniv ER. I did experience habituation before this, but have successfully used this regimen for nearly a decade. Sometimes a minor adjustment works very well.

[@PhionaSibisi-ve3zw]

any innatentive type thats having a business?

[@nicolesnyder6818]

I am a huge Dr. Barkley fan for many years HOWEVER I want to remind everyone that he, by his own admission, is funded by big pharma, so we must keep in mind that he is not paid to find advantages of ADHD, quite the opposite. Notice in this vid he fails to mention the other disorder (syndrome actually ) that was the “inattentive type” that will be eliminated from ADHD in the next DSM. Hmmmmmm One has to wonder why he would use old studies not allowing for this new finding that a substantial amount of people diagnosed with ADHD, actually do not have ADHD or even a disorder but an entirely different syndrome. I look forward to the studies on ADHD AFTER the people who don’t have it are removed from the equation. In the meantime, keep this in mind when listening to Dr. Barkley’s opinion.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

There are several misrepresentations here, Nicole, that I can clear up for you. I have not received any funds from the pharmaceutical industry for the past 1.5 years. So I am not funded by big pharma. For the decade prior to that, I received approximately 1% or less of my income from the pharma industry for an occasional lecture at a professional conference, amounting to about $2-3K per year. In contrast, I received 20x that much from social security. And over half of my income during this decade was from books and internet courses for professionals, so I guess I am funded far more by “big publishing.” Across my entire career, less than 3% of my research support at my university medical schools came from the pharmaceutical industry, and that was for one study of driving in adults with ADHD and whether Atomoxetine might improve their functioning in that domain. The rest is from the NIH or medical school small grants, as my website makes plain. And you have missed my 6 part lecture on this channel on that other attention disorder, cognitive disengagement syndrome, the existence of which I have been championing for more than 20 years under its earlier term, sluggish cognitive tempo. To my knowledge, there are no plans to eliminate the inattentive presentation from the next DSM, which as far as I know is not even in the works at this time. Thanks for the chance to correct the innuendo here.

[@zainmushtaq4347]

@@russellbarkleyphd2023 This is wonderful 👏 You should definitely publish that as a separate video debunking this claim once and for all as I see it sometimes in comment sections. That way, people can link to that one video whenever someone comes with such a strong claim against your validity. Thanks for all you do 😇👍

[@farmpunk_dan]

I jumped from job to job while I got a masters degree in music and freelanced as a musician. Didn’t like the lifestyle and got bored so I moved and started my own successful business as a sole-proprietor and built a beautiful personal training studio. Now the novelty has worn off and I am struggling more than ever. Lately I’ve been thinking I could be a baker 🥲