Adrix and Nev, Twincasters | Upping the Average

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[@crovax1375]

There shall never be a day when I will not chuckle when Sharding Sphinx is recommended in a deck because of its explosive potential! 💩

[@maxwelltwitmyer365]

Are you laughing at it or with it?

[@Yesnomu]

I love that we're getting low and high budget suggestions more often with these videos, they're really helpful! What about another MH2 token card, Fae Offering? It looks like we have a decent amount of creature and non-creature spells to enable it.

[@sebastianomasi202]

I'm so glad that you did a video on this commander, I've been tweaking Adrix and Nev endlessly since they came out, and I love them. I do have some minor suggestions, though, given how much I've played it. When it comes to the three-drop ramp, I prefer creatures like Wood Elves, Farhaven Elf, and Elvish Rejuvenator over Cultivate and Kodama's reach, since you can clone them and make token copies of them if you desperately need the lands. I also want to reiterate a point you mentioned a couple of times, which is that this deck can be run over VERY easily if the right steps aren't taken. The deck doesn't need that many resources to do crazy things in the late game, and I mean absolutely absurd things, so 90% of your deck should be geared for surviving to getting there. The green soul sister Essence Warden is amazing in this deck, as it can gain you so much life with all of the tokens you are creating, and I am shoving a copy of Prosperous Inkeeper into this deck the second that the DnD set comes out. Additional support can come in the form of Thragtusk, who is also a great clone target. For additional eternalize cards, I have to suggest Vizier of Many Faces, who can be a token copy of any card on the battlefield, which is super cool. For additional card drawn, I want to recommend Tishana, Voice of Thunder, and also Eidolon of Blossoms. Although we don't run that many enchantments in the deck, Eidolon can easily go exponential with itself. Finally I'm surprised that Spark Double wasn't in this deck. It is another copy of Shakashima, and having multiple copies of your commander out is so ridiculous that I feel having more copies of that effect is hardly ever wrong. There's so much to think about with this deck, and I am glad that we ended up agreeing on a lot of the key points.

[@MrColeStephen]

Would you mind sending your deck list?

[@turnugin5645]

Perfect timing king, I was just thinking about scrapping Adrix and rebuilding it as Derevi tokens. But I think ill try this better list out first :)

[@PurpleTentacle17]

Love the Upping the Average series! Please consider doing a Shadrix Silverquill deck

[@lowlyspy]

Yeeeessss Junk Winder! Just threw it into my Brudiclad deck. So good.

[@TheHUmarWhitill]

Great timing for the video! I just picked up the decks through the Prime Day sale and need to put in some upgrades!!

[@psychozen7169]

Great video Joey.

[@jordansams6240]

I just started running Adrix and Nev and gotta say i love them, by far one of my favorite decks. I would also recommend Spawning Pit since when someone goes to interact with your board you can sac them into the pit, then use the pit to make more tokens later

[@Pyraxian1]

Hey Joey, I noticed you talked at the beginning of this video about threading the needle between the deck's possible archetypes. Along that thread, would love to see a video on Ranar, the Ever-Watchful, and how to thread between foretell, spirits, and blink effects.

[@Torsav]

I love adrix and nev. It can get out of hand very quickly. I like to run crashing drawbridge and flash effects. Combat can be an underwhelming strategy, being able to end step some gas can give that little extra reach.

[@geekmp3]

Fantastic review!

[@cablebeck4940]

Since you talked about Myr Battlesphere being hit wit a copy spell, I thought I'd mention Precursor Golem. Not only does it enter with a couple tokens, but any time it's targeted every other Golem is targeted too so you would create copies of each golem plus the Precursor, which then enters with more golem tokens. Super fun with a kicked Rite of Rep

[@94ncd]

This commander is now my new commander for my wolf token simic deck that was helped by zegana prime speaker and now I'll have too much fun with howl of the night pack, and the wolf bramble elemental guy that has multikicker for G and makes a wolf each time it was kicked.

[@mrsnufflegums]

If you go for the treasure route for some things, Lonis, cryptozoologist or tireless tracker/provisioner are probably worth it, and academy manufacturer and the underworld cookbook are also super worth going for, especially if you're going with an esix in the list

[@andreww479]

if you are running risen reef you can also throw in a master of waves. decent clone target and makes a lot of tokens and they can trigger the risen reef

[@UgoneTheBest]

I love Upping the Average! Thank you a lot for the quality content, can we please have Xyris or Ghired next?

[@Neuverfleischer]

I build Koma based on the Quandrix precon...some of these suggestions are great for that!

[@stormycat0905]

I'm finding Tireless Provisioner, Lonis Cryptozoologist and Combine Chrysalis (all form MH2) are working really well in this deck too.

[@Threads_Of_Fate]

Night Soil, is underated. Its cost to remove 2 creatures from play from any graveyard is amazing grave disruption, 1 mana for 1 1/1 Saproling token is also a pretty good rate on its own. Obviously great way to set up blockers after a board wipe, and a good way to drop all you open mana on the end phase before your turn. Spark Double is a worse Sakashima, but still worth doubling down on that effect, in this deck its practically a doubling season.

[@zackkelley2940]

Liege of the Hollow might be a fun add if you have it and/or can afford it. Works for everyone BUT since Adrix and Nev will be multiplying any tokens you get, likely many times over since if you can afford liege of the hollow you probably have doubling season et al, they'll end up with a few squirrels and you'll have an ARMY.

[@ancientswordrage]

So many good ideas for my sightly odd Rafiq deck

[@zechariahunderwood5851]

Cool thanks!

[@vds92]

Perfect timing. I am building one too, although it is more on the budget side. MH2 really has some awesome cards for this deck - you mentioned Junk Winder, I see Tireless Provisioner and Timeless Witness are already in it. I've been testing some cards a lot and I came to a conclusion that this deck has a lot of micro synergies which are simply beautiful. It's great that you mentioned Risen Reef, it compliments landfall really well and I think it is just the card that wants you to play more Elemental creatures like Mulldrifter, Tangled Florahedron // Tangled Vale and Foundation Breaker from MH2 (imo it is a better Reclamation Sage for this deck), so I think it would be a good move to put as many elemental creatures as possible in it. Zendikar's Roil is busted too with Risen Reef. Regarding ramp and landfall, I got rid of the instant/sorcery land ramp and moved towards creature land ramp, the sole reason being - you can copy creatures and even though 3 mana ramp isn't ideal it can pick up steam pretty quickly - I'm running Sakura Tribe Elder, Coiling Oracle, Risen Reef, Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves and Springbloom Druid (again, which is great for landfall triggers). Another thing regarding landfall and why Replication Technique should stay in the deck - the card states "Create a token that's a copy of target permanent you control.", I mean... You can make 4 lands off of it if needs be - 4 landfall triggers = profit. As for copying stuff, Vizier of Many Faces is pretty good, although you have to embalm it to get tokens that are copies, even Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool Shore that just copies stuff and doesn't make tokens could be a nice pick, if the situation asks for it it can be a land. Clever Impersonator is a card I personally really like because it can copy any nonland permanent on the board, pretty versatile. Aether Mutation is a card to consider too, 5 mana for a sorcery isn't ideal, but bouncing an opponent's creature and then making, well, usually 10+ saproling tokens is not too shabby. Especially if you have Tendershoot Dryad on the board. And lastly, the card I actually discovered yesterday - Riptide Laboratory, reprinted in MH2, I mean... Imo this card is just too good not to be included in an Adrix and Nev deck, at least if you are somewhat on a budget - you tap it and 1U and bounce Adrix and Nev to your hand which can come in handy in mid- to late-game to bypass commander tax. And I just remembered - Sylvan Anthem, for a deck that goes this wide a mere +1/+1 for all creatures can wreak havoc. The scrying part is a nice bonus, too. And I /never knew about Resculpt until this video, I'll have to find some space in the deck for it. Anyway, amazing video, keep it up!

[@wizardpajamas6405]

I don't think Riptide Laboratory works the way you describe. "Controlling" a commander specifically means it's on the battlefield (903.3d), so RL will only let you return it from there to your hand (and only at sorcery speed, so it's not even a dodge move). RL unfortunately doesn't seem like a reusable Command Beacon here. Aether Mutation however sounds very fun, even for bouncing your own token generators, if you've got the mana for it and commander out. Cast Avenger of Zendikar, get X plant tokens (where X is your land count) > Double that thanks to A&N > Buff those plants for a few turns with the landfall effect > Cast Aether Mutation to put AoZ in your hand in exchange for 14 saprolings > Next turn, cast AoZ again for even more plants (doubled) > Buff those too with landfall > Behold your big green army. This yields at least 42 tokens, assuming you cast AoZ with just 7 basic lands.

[@vds92]

@@wizardpajamas6405 I should've probably clarified my thoughts regarding Riptide Lab - what I'd meant was, if A&N are targeted while on the battlefield and there is a certainty that they'll get exiled or destroyed, RL can help with "mitigating" the commander tax by bouncing A&N to the hand, so you don't need to pay 4 + X on your own turn, but only the 4. Granted, you pay 7 total across 2 turns, but it still means you pay only 4 when recasting A&N from hand on your own turn and not 6, 8, 10 or more by casting them from the command zone. Regarding the sorcery speed, I'm pretty sure you can use Riptide Lab at instant speed, since there isn't a clause that allows it to be activated only at sorcery speed. Or is there a new ruling I'm not aware of? :)

[@wizardpajamas6405]

@@vds92 Oops, by "sorcercy speed" I was thinking that cards could only be tapped on your turn. My bad. I had a head cold the other day so guess I didn't realize my mistake there. Yeah I can see how RL would be a useful dodge card for Adrix & Nev then.

[@Zeromus5555]

You guys need to do upping the average on Esix. So many ppl playing cards that don't work with it. Needs to be the first thing and only on YOUR turn.

[@SYR0PYR0]

Got to put mirror box in there

[@zackkelley2940]

Also since Doubling Season and Parallel lives came up and we are using a commander that lends itself to copying shenanigans might I suggest adding in copy enchantment and/or mirromade for further shenanigans? One Doubling is great, two are bonkers, and three is well past bat shit insane^^

[@warpgamer9055]

Orvar in this deck

[@charliescheirmann2926]

Since this is a token deck I feel its important to mention Growing Rites of Itlimoc as a source of mana ramp. Another good rock you should consider playing is Skyclave Relic. Its essentially a Darksteel Ingot that also lets you kick it for 3, and if you do you create 2 tapped token copies of it, which will be doubled by your commander. 6 mana for 5 indestructible ramp is amazing value (granted 4 will come in tapped so you won't get immediate value).

[@silentkingsubject]

it's also worth noting that Junk Winder is a serpent, in case you cut out the Koma to make its own deck

[@KingDavid12DT]

I suggest putting a Lithoform Engine in the 99. Copy a Body of Research spell or Cackling Counterpart? Yes, please!

[@leonjakobsen272]

I still think there's a place for double major in the deck, if only because it's basically the only budget card that allows you to make non-legendary copies of your commander, which you can then clone for more token doubling

[@daveyhwa]

Double Major is mostly for copying the twins themselves. But that feels too slow so I like swapping it. My choice is Sea-Dasher Octopus. This keeps the number of ways to clone your commander the same while also adding a sweet kicker to something you plan to make a clone token of.

[@SirLunchalot86]

Is there a way to make suggestions for the next Upping the Average video?

[@Rundvelt]

Can someone explain the double major section with Parallel Lives (10:14)? Why wouldn't Parallel lives fire? Isn't the instant generating the token as an effect? And why isn't the value from two twincasters the justification for the card?

[@bs9771]

i wonder how the deck would look like if some indestructible cards got thrown in considering all the create copy of target creature there is. cards like darksteel colosus, darksteel juggernaut, impervious greatwurm, or predator ooze.

[@Cyb3rSix]

I suggest riptide laboratory in this list as well. Makes Adrix and Nev almost a pointless target for my opponents, and gets around commander tax.

[@Weavi_]

Thank you for the list! Had a lot of cards I didn't even think about putting in Adrix and Nev. You did mention there was somewhat of a landfall subtheme, however I am surprised you did not include Tatyova and Aesi into this deck. I think they'd be nice inclusions, especially Aesi since it gives you an additional land drop.

[@jasonfortress9027]

How would Adrix and nev work with Ugin the ineffable?

[@ttrgr]

Double Major: I’d continue to run it not to double any creature spell into an Adrix, but rather either copy token producing creatures; two Avenger of Zendikars is still bonkers into Adrix; or copy Adrix herself. That, and creating a token copy of Adrix to populate is absolutely hilarious.

[@MrMac1219]

Yeah, cutting Double Major broke my heart, I know it doesn't get doubled by A&N BUT it's still a legendary capable copy spell which can hit A&N to quadruple further tokens and for only 2 mana.

[@MrMac1219]

you also mentioned Saheeli's Artistry for copying mana rock, i run it as well but how about Echo Storm? It's 1 mana less and copies itself for each time you have cast your commander from zone use it with A&N thats a minimum of 1 so 4 artifact copies. and It seems Orvar the All Form isn't in, come on if I'm going to be targeting my stuff for copies anyway i may as well get more copies from him.

[@benfaden4846]

Yurlok list please?

[@rylandercoleman2740]

If you ever look at comments could we get an upping the average obuun deck? I added ashaya to my deck and am going to get a quirion ranger to infinitely bounce landfall

[@hiddenleaf414]

Vizier of Many Faces is a cheap clone that later in the game can be Embalmed for double the tokens. Also does anyone know how Caller of The Pack’s Myriad trigger works with Adrix and Nev? Would the 2 opponents get 2 token copies tapped and attacking at them and would I lose the extra at the end of combat?

[@TheSilverFox442]

Yes to both.

[@Vewen0000]

I want to make a token deck, but I'm doubting between Adrix/Nev and chatterfang. Adrix/nev care more about creation and swinging for lethal, whereas chatterfang is probably aristocratic in nature. I wonder which one would be most fun and most effective (I like decks that "work", and are not durdling for turns because they miss key pieces to start doing their thing).

[@jaredhill4367]

Hi, I have some basic questions if anyone is willing to answer Adrix 1 check > Adrix 2 check Extra token from Adrix 1 > Checked by Adrix 2 Extra token from Adrix 2 > Checked by Adrix 1..... it's a mandatory effect so can't stop the loop? 2) I'm running Eldrazi in my Adrix deck. If my opponent makes me sacrifice a monsters, can I choose a Scion token and then also pre-sacrifice it to gain the colourless floating mana? 3) The land card Field of the Dead is mentioned, but, is it allowed if it makes black tokens? 4) Finale of devastation on an empty board searching Hornet queen. Lets say you spent 12 mana after a board wipe, does the +10/+10 apply to the queen before or after the incest tokens are summoned? Thanks for any help.

[@wizardpajamas6405]

I can't believe no one has answered this after 2 years, so I'll give it a shot. Note, I'm still fairly new to MtG so this is my best understanding. I'm no authority. 1) I had to think hard about this one. I believe the catch here is that the ability triggers *before* the tokens are created. Keyword is WOULD. If you *would* create a token, copy #1 of A&N changes the number so you actually create two instead. Then A&N copy #2 triggers the same way off the original ability (not off A&N1) i.e. it also alters the number of tokens to two instead of one. This yields a total of 3 tokens. And that's it, no loopback, because no other "would" condition is met after that. I could be wrong here, but I think it's the only sporting answer. Some cards have a variant of "this ability can only be activated once per turn" (such as Esix in the same precon!) but A&N notably doesn't. As you said, if A&N's ability could trigger another copy of itself, you wouldn't just get 4 tokens, you'd get an infinite number. And that's not really fair or fun for other players. 2) If you pre-sacrifice the Scion (meaning *before* the opponent's ability), of course you get a colorless mana, but then you have to sacrifice something else. But if you wait for the ability to activate, then at that point you have to pick a creature to sacrifice. And *when* you sacrifice the Scion you also get the mana. So yes what you want here sounds possible IMO, as long as the timing is right. 3) I'm confident Field of the Dead is allowed in this deck. "2x black" is just the mana value of each zombie token (used as input for spells based on X mana value). The FotD land card itself creates the tokens for free, so you don't actually need to generate black mana in the first place (i.e. save your swamp cards for another deck). 4) I would follow the instructions on Finale of Devastation in order. The first sentence says to put the search result card onto the battlefield. Hornet Queen's tokens are created immediately when she enters the battlefield. Then the second sentence on FoD says to shuffle your library. Then the third sentence says to buff all your creatures with +X/+X. By that point the green insect tokens are included among your creatures, so yep they get buffed too.

[@jaredhill4367]

@@wizardpajamas6405 Thanks for the reply, I've played commander a lot more now, so feel I have a better grasp of the rules. Question 1) is still really tricky so I'll deal with that one last. 2) To sacrifice something marks it for "destruction", so if a scion was targeted to be sacrifice you can not do it's built in sacrifice for mana as it is already marked for "destruction". You can use the self sacrifice effect to make something that targets, to miss its target as it has not resolved to apply "destruction" yet. 3) You are correct, the colour words are allowed like Black (in this example of Field of the Dead), but "black icon" on cards would not be allowed. 4) You are correct with Finale of Devastation. Resolve the summon first. Now back to the tricky one.... 1) My understand now is that this issue is actually resolved by doubling, then doubling again, so having two A&N then making one scion token, would grant four scion tokens. This is due to how the chain resolves; Two copies of A&N are on the field and you cast something that makes a scion token. Both A&N trigger simultaneous, you add them to the stack (in the order of your choice but both effects are the same so it doesn't matter). This leaves us with a chain looking like this; Create Token > Double it > Double it This results in four tokens and does not create an infinite loop as the effect hasn't added ,more times tokens are created, it has just altered how those tokens are created.

[@wizardpajamas6405]

​@@jaredhill4367 Ok thanks! For 1) Adrix & Nev, I only recently learned about the stack in the game (I know it as a data structure) but yeah now I think you're correct. It makes sense that that two of them would trigger simultaneously but have to resolve in order from the stack. That kinds of ruins some other ideas I've had for infinite loops but honestly it's a reasonable procedure for a game like this. For 2) I still think you get the mana. The wiki says a creature can only be sacrificed by its owner (though an opponent could force you to do it), and the Eldrazi Scion gives mana immediately when sacrificed, so I don't see why there'd be a difference whether you do it voluntarily or not. Mana abilities don't interact with the stack (405.6c) so once the sacrifice resolves, the mana gain is instant. At least that's how I interpret the rules. There's no clause on the card saying "don't gain mana if another player forced the sacrifice". Cheers :)

[@Squiggypie]

The majority of the wins I've accumulated with my A&N deck have come from Biovisionary.

[@heathwannemacher4185]

Avenger of Zendikar + Mystic Reflection = Winning. Definitely would not take Mystic Reflections out just because of the flexibility of the card, particularly in a deck making tokens it can turn into good shit

[@patrickbaillargeon7568]

This man said hecking hack

[@BigDeckEnergy.]

I’ve used the timeless witness eternalized mechanic, and brought back rift and fierce guardianship. I locked out my brothers by coping the token and reusing those cards over and over from my graveyard.

[@theprankbattles]

I counter myr battlesphere with wurmcoil engine

[@whaleofagoodtime3441]

Replicating Ring?

[@Tattersail]

16:27 Supplant form says "put into play" rather than "create" for the token. Is this an outdated wording for the same thing? Otherwise Adrix "would be created" should not have influence on it

[@acutefailure1]

Throw a biomass mutation in there to end the game

[@christophknorr4635]

I think you forgot to mention Primal Vigor as a more expensive addition to this deck. With this you have 4 potential Token doublers in your Deck (Adrix and Nev, Doubling Season, Parallel Lives and Primal Vigor).

[@MrSantaklaus]

Unfortunately Primal Vigor works for everyone, which results in a lot of people avoiding it.

[@christophknorr4635]

@@MrSantaklaus I still play it though, since I make the most out of it, especially if I have also some of the other effects in Play.

[@francescognerre2408]

May I ask why you use Archidekt and not other deck editors, like tappedout?

[@dasfabelwesen]

Oko, because he makes tokens. I swear it is just for the tokens...

[@jordanbarton8632]

NYX BLOOM ANCIENT......YOUR WELCOME

[@plain6677]

Esika’s chariot doesn’t populate: it creates a token copy of any token we control.