ADTH NextGen TV Tuner Review: Does it break the DRM ?

[@aetheralmeowstic2392]

The FTC needs to start slamming the hammer down on any and all stations that encrypt their OTA signals

[@mikewurlitzer5217]

Try to think of ANY alphabet agency which actually works for the OWNERS of this government, We The People. You'd be hard pressed to find even a handful. While I am a died in the wool capitalist, the collusion between government and corporations is criminal and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

[@ericB3444]

it’s CORRECT to think that this bear has a VERY SMOOTH HEAD. You must be thinking, “does he use Head And Shoulders Shine Plus?” That would be incorrect. The answer is a bear TRADE secret. ... PACK YOUR BAGS AT ONCE!!!!!

[@UteTrac]

I need help setting up a network including WiFi in my home in Utah. I have yet to find anyone person or company willing to do it any help is much appreciated 😎

[@bloggerccc]

It's authorized BY and through the FCC. They won't slam themselves over it.

[@fearlessfreep]

Yank a few licenses and it would send a message. But no way they have the balls to do that.

[@TransCanadaPhil]

I'm glad you addressed the question I had in my mind as I was watching; if the box requires a constant internet connection just to decrypt the OTA signal, there's really no point! You might as well just stream everything then. It totally defeats the purpose of OTA. You couldn't use this in a cabin/RV at a campground or somewhere remote that may have OTA signals available but not an internet connection.

[@patrickmartin4996]

What about people that do not have internet?

[@bloggerccc]

You download the decryption key once and when it's loaded, it's supposed to work continuously until it's intentionally halted (changing the channel, for example) or until something internal goes ka-flooey. (Ka-flooey is a highly technical term; too-frequent use will make people think you're really smart and then you must live up to that!) I used to work on military crypto devices in which new key was loaded daily by mechanical means--- wiring, punch cards, etc -- and electronic re-keying was just appearing when I got out.

[@madmax2069]

​@@patrickmartin4996what do you think their point is, most cabins/RVs do not have an Internet connection

[@madmax2069]

​​@@bloggercccthe way ATSC 3.0 is supposed to work is like a one way IPless internet connection, couldn't they just use it like it should be used and push the key by OTA the internet connection was only supposed to be for customized ads.

[@patrickmartin4996]

@@madmax2069 By what I have read, the TV stations are making it more difficult to receive 3.0 with DRM and whatever else they have up their sleeve. They want money and it seems programmers in general are out to get as much as they can. But as far as cabins & RV's do not have access to internet, that is changing with more satellite internet options. One TV engineer told me nearly 50 years ago, in the future there will be a lot more PPV. Some of that has come through, but at least TV station news is still free and most TV stations seem to stream.

[@jaredhuang2225]

Further evidence DRM is just the broadcaster's way to get fees via OTA.

[@ericB3444]

Wrong. MUAHAHAHAH.

[@SoundOfYourDestiny]

They do get fees: It's called AD REVENUE. There is no excuse for their extorting cable companies to carry their channels. There was no excuse for them to sue Aereo, which was going to expand their viewership (and ad value) free of charge to them. And now this disgraceful bullshit.

[@mikewurlitzer5217]

@@ericB3444 No FACT! The requirement to be connected to the internet puts money in the pocket of the very industry which will use social engineering commercials to tell us how bad we are.

[@jimlau5906]

There is only one reason for this. Broadcasters want to push as many people as possible to pay TV for the local channels, so they can get the broadcast fees from the pay TV provider. The FCC should threaten to revoke their licenses.

[@MaNameizJeff]

except that local cable is bleeding subs left and right and only one online service has really put effort in local broadcast support?

[@craigarnold1212]

Most of the increases in cable costs are due to locals fees and they stack more channels on to get more fees that really are cable channels broadcast locally. I wonder if the local channels really see any of that revenue or if it goes to their corporate overlords while they destroy small local news channels. Even large market news shows are struggling to even have the staff to do any real investigating or support local events with much if any coverage.

[@BartlettTFD]

Notice how quiet the FCC has been on DRM🤣

[@SGCSmith]

The FCC has been quiet because the Broadcasters and media companies would sue them if they tried to ban DRM. Honestly, that is a battle I would love to see...

[@Ichijoe2112]

I suspect the American Broadcasters are taking some notes from the European (Mostly German Broadcasters of which there are Two) The First is provided courtesy of the Government, and unless your basically Def / Dumb AND BLIND. You are required to pay 20€s a month for (as makes no odds it's actually more like 18€ but, I digress.) The Second is the so-called Private Broadcasters, and I think this is where the model stems. As it stands we can still watch the Bog-Standard SD Broadcasts over Cable, or Satellite. We also have Terrestrial DVB-T2 which like ATSC-3 has SIM Card Encryption. Which is needed to watch their HD, and the one odd 4k Channel. That Sub costs 5€ a month or about 80€ a year, and yes they have Commercials, though not as many, as in the us, and they also tend to be shown at the half-hour marks, instead of ever 5 minutes or so in the US. So yes this is an obvious money grab.

[@Bendc1970A1]

Screw this DRM BS. I'm glad I watched this video. I was going to buy this but not now.

[@keyboard_g]

They require online so they can capture metrics for ratings for live TV. There’s no way the broadcast companies would do it another way. They would rather tank the entire platform than not get ratings they can use to charge advertisers for.

[@keyboard_g]

I agree. It is BS.

[@ericB3444]

MUAHAHAHAH

[@jmr]

If they don't want to serve us properly others would like that bandwidth.

[@rsdigiomoney]

Ur right. But it just makes no sense because If they tank the whole platform they won’t be able to sell ANY ads at all. Lol so short sighted greedy and stupid

[@MaNameizJeff]

There might be the case where the decryption keys is not stored internally. They may actually have it where the keys must always be obtained on use so that it can be changed on the fly. That would stop all the previous faults where once the key is known there is no taking it back. I have not followed the design around of this guy though. Doing something like "You can't view abc unless you give us your metrics" seems kind of silly... no one does that.

[@Chris_In_Texas]

I am glad that most all new TV's today still do NOT include ATSC 3 tuners! That will at least delay the mandate much longer as ATSC3 pretty much seems like the end of free OTA TV at this point.

[@patrickmartin4996]

It will be sometime too.

[@writerpatrick]

One of the dangers of DRM is region blocking so that if you don't live in the right area you can't watch the channel. This comes into effect for Canadians who normally can pick up US stations.

[@patrickmartin4996]

At this point I am not interested in 3.0. Too many issues, who knows what the ending will be?

[@kalijasin]

@@patrickmartin4996 Sounds like they are trying to turn atsc 3.0 into some non- cord cutting thing.

[@patrickmartin4996]

@@kalijasin Since most new TV's do not have 3.0, it will be years until it would be a reality. I am nearly 75 and 1.0 may be around for the rest of my life.

[@kalijasin]

@@patrickmartin4996 NAB said, "91% of households that have displays with an HDMI input, but are not equipped with NEXTGEN TV technology."

[@patrickmartin4996]

@@kalijasin That may be available as most everything of mine has HDMI as well and Composite but it may be pain to run an HDMI cord over to the TV. 3.0 is getting too complicated. OTA TV is supposed to be plug & play, even with an antenna. Now with DRM, Internet connection, and whatever else. Streaming is so much easily.

[@SpaceJazz3K]

Reminder that the introduction of DRM has never slowed down digital piracy in any form.

[@matthewjbauer1990]

If anything, it has actually sped up piracy and made it easier because people are actively bypassing DRM. Take DVD and Blu-ray DRM for example. People are actively bypassing it till this day.

[@williwonti]

Anything actually designed to be viewed by human eyeballs or heard by human earholes will NEVER be too secure to bypass one way or another

[@gblargg]

Digital Restrictions Management is always about restricting the paying customer.

[@usefulrandom1855]

Denuvo has to be fair, games used to cracked day or pre-release. Now its usually much longer if at all.

[@DaveNLR2]

It is already useless. The DRM box output is HDCP. A $20 HDMI splitter from Amazon can already send a stripped HDCP signal out to a capture card. So what is the point?

[@jmr]

They led us to believe internet was not needed. That's a nonstarter. I most need OTA TV when the internet is down.

[@billfusionenterprise]

cue next major disaster , where people are harm due to not getting news they need

[@robertmason7013]

Internet is required for all DRM incription on all devices this includes TV's with atsc3.0.tuners.atleast that what I reading online.

[@penultimatename6677]

Zapperbox claims a future upgrade will eliminate the need for an internet connection.

[@robertmason7013]

@@penultimatename6677 that's impossible to decode a incripted signal you will need a Internet connection.

[@mephitusincognito7918]

@@penultimatename6677 i'll believe it when i see it

[@friendofentropy]

If OTA needs internet connectivity to watch TV, then it's useless to me. The part of this whole 3.0 thing that worried me even before the DRM was the anti-privacy aspects if they enforced the network connectivity part of the spec. If I can't passively watch signals over the air without being tracked by advertisers, then I'm opting out, ahoy!

[@strouja]

Thanks Lon, great job as usual and this DRM stuff really pisses me off. There is no way you should need an internet connection, I violently agree with you. I am thinking for all the folks that don't have the money or don't want to spend the money on cable, or streaming services. Every person should be able to watch the local channels for free.

[@jfbeam]

How else is it supposed to get the key(s)? The way DISH/DTV/Cable works, they have to know every authorized device to transmit a code specific to that device.

[@kensmith5694]

@@jfbeam There is no good reason for keys to be needed. Over the air TV has worked as a model for over 50 years now.

[@strouja]

@jfbeam then they could do it over the air along with the video and audio to transmit. There’s no need at all whatsoever for Internet connection. But I disagreed with the whole idea of needing keys at all. As a gentleman said below for 50 years, they never needed them and now all of a sudden they do.

[@jfbeam]

@@stroujaNo, it can't be done over the air. Did we learn nothing from the DVD CCA ("deCSS") bull****? Putting static keys anywhere defeats the whole purpose of encryption. Yes, encryption in the OTA system is THE dumbest shit ever, but that's the world we live in. (everyone wants to get paid, more than once, for everything.) Remember, this is the same industry that bitched for years over VCRs.

[@kalijasin]

@@jfbeam It shouldn't be encrypted to begin with because this is OTA Not internet or satellite.

[@wesmckean1443]

I just plugged mine back in to see if ADTH was making any improvements. I'm pleasantly surprised. Seems to be working much better now.

[@mauricejefferson1836]

I have the tuner and started as you did as an OTA tuner late one night. Channels were scanned, with the ATSC 3.0 Program Guide was able to load that night. The ATSC 1.0 guide was there the bext morning. It works w/o the internet. Connecting the internet next day (via WI-FI) allows you to access additiinal info if the channel broadcasts it. You will see on screen a right click on remote to access it. I don't know if the unit auto updated overnight becauae it wasn't needed when done manually. A signal strength display is needed to show low, dropouts, or signal overload. My quality of signal will improve on a few channels once the leaves fall. I have a Samsung TV with a 3.0 tuner that has signal diags. They both scan the same amoint of channels but will connect the Samsung to the internet to see if it can get the additional info broadcasted on a few channels. More testing the weekend. Be patirnt when configuring.

[@wolfbrian2]

Considering that broadcast viewership is declining you would think that they would do everything in their power to make it as easy as possible to view their content.

[@jfbeam]

Independent broadcaster... sure. The networks... want everyone to pay to watch their crap. (they all have their own streaming platforms)

[@nsfeliz7825]

maybe they want to destroy ota tv.

[@1971chadwick]

The Nextgen masterminds are all pushing Nextgen certified devices, but even with this certified equipment DRM is not working without picture freeze and other hiccups not seen on non-DRM ATSC 3.0 channels. If DRM on ATSC 3.0 doesn't get under control, people will spread the word fast and avoid this technology before it even gets started. There are too my other options out there to watch TV.

[@GadgetAddict]

ADTH are a major manufacturer for TV networks that sell their own rebranded boxes.

[@AAa-qd8hb]

Don't trust anyone. Spyware?

[@GadgetAddict]

I've never heard anything bad about them as a company. They're pretty well known for selling hardware that TV networks rebrand under their own name. One of their portable DTV products was being sold by a major TV network here in the Philippines. That TV network was shutdown and ADTH stepped in to release a generic version of the app, so that people could still use the hardware. (The original app relied on connecting to servers managed by the TV network that sold the device). As far as I know, they were also the only company that had the encryption keys for the few encrypted channels at the time.

[@WayneRitchie-s1l]

Lon I just downloaded a update to the ADTH BOX and it seems to be working properly. I think you should do an update video and check the HDMI output again.

[@LonSeidman]

I'll take a look!

[@ipavemyownroad]

How did you get the update to download? Mine says there are no updates available.

[@RoderickMatott]

I received my ADTH Nextgen box yesterday there were two upgrades and they help make the tuner run faster

[@ipavemyownroad]

My box says there are no updates available, and the DRMed channels aren't being decoded

[@ElvisImpersonator]

Q: If internet is required for firmware updates and DRM keys, what happens when the OEM goes bankrupt or stops supporting firmware/security updates and DRM keys? A: You have a doorstop.

[@igeekone]

Oh wow! That's an excellent thought. Yup, this is turning out to be a worst case scenario.

[@bloggerccc]

I "lived" that experience. My Livio radio is now a brick because the company whose website made the Internet connection went broke and Livio provided no means to alter it or enter a replacement web address. It still powers up but reports a "Connection Error." Thousands affected.

[@Ichijoe2112]

All the more chilling as this thing has all the quality of almost every Android (4.4 Kit-Kat), Box I've ever seen. Needless to say I wouldn't hold much breath for any firmware update, forced or no. Better to save a few pennies more, and wait for the HD Homerun. At least this Company has a better track-record.

[@patrickmartin4996]

Face it, the average viewer is not going to go through all of that just to get OTA TV. OTA TV has been making a come back the past few years. Leave it alone, or it will go back to where it was or go away as there will be few viewers. Add to that in a short time the way the fees are going up with cable/satellite, the average viewer will be priced out anyway. At $24 a month to get locals off cable, viewers are going to OTA and Free streaming.

[@kensmith5694]

The distance to carry my TV to put it out at the curb is a bit long to do in one go but when the signals I want to watch are encrypted, I will not be watching TV any more. I am not going to be plugging a TV into the internet. I can have a computer and just watch stuff from the internet at that point.

[@wesmckean1443]

I just got my ADTH box today. setting it up was ridiculous. the first time you turn it on it should walk you through everything you need to do to set it up, including a channel scan. I updated the box, now when I check for an update it says one is available, tries to download and install it, fails, and keeps popping up the window that says an update is available. The only way to get it to go away is to unplug the box. All of my ATSC 3.0 channels are sputtering, encrypted or not. I checked the signal strength on my HDhomerun and it was sitting at about 52%, which is a little on the low side, but ATSC 3 is supposed to function at lower signal qualities. It's not fair to compare this to the tuner on the HDHomerun, as its one of the best on the market, but the HDhomerun had no problems playing back the unencrypted channels. I'm going to put this away for right now and hope its not a $100 mistake.

[@jamesheartney9546]

The thing that makes the internet connection requirement especially idiotic is that if you have decent internet, you already have a superior video delivery technology in place - IP video supports 4K, modern codecs and sound. There's no earthly reason to set up a new, redundant video delivery method via OTA ATSC 3.0. Just scrap the whole OTA system and have local stations broadcast via IP. Don't like that idea, broadcasters? Then quit farting around with DRM and have OTA be free and unencumbered, as it always has been. Otherwise you're just making your own business (broadcasting) pointless.

[@bloggerccc]

Not so simple. Without a broadcast, the "Must-carry" rule won't kick in for mandatory carriage on cable systems. That may be the reason some stations remain on the air, at all. The increase in Internet traffic could be unmanageable if this were to happen quickly. Note the difficulties predicted for mandating that electric vehicles must replace IC engines. There isn't enough of anything needed to support the move. At 80, I'm out of the loop but I try to keep up.

[@kumarp3074]

Another example of DRM making the experience worse for the consumers trying to legally consume content and at the same time not being able to stop piracy.

[@OriginalDemGunz]

I understand this is Gen 1 but that's one step above a paperweight

[@SilverYearsFun]

Zapperbox is very open with their customers about DRM. "Content Security (aka DRM/encrypted channels): * v2.2 release of content security support will require an Internet connection. * Content security without an Internet connection (unconnected mode) will be supported around December 2023. * v2.2 release will not support recording and playback of secure content, that is planned for v2.3 in October 2023" ATSC 3 may fall into corruption through crony-capitalism (TV stations being paid through the FCC), but Zapperbox is communicating with their customers all along the way!

[@graphosxp]

The ORIGINAL "DRM" that killed live TV was the Cable companies like Time-Warner back-in-the-day charging high prices for access. Please support local Public Libraries so poor folks can at least take out some DVD!

[@CommodoreFan64]

I'm all for physical media as I own a lot of stuff on DVD, and Blu-Ray, but an ONN Google TV streaming box that can do 4K is 20 bucks, and poor people can apply for the FCC Affordable Connectivity Program that gives upwards of 30 bucks a month per household(75 bucks on qualifying tribal lands)towards internet service which would make something like T-Mobile Home internet 20 bucks a month, and there are tons of free legal streaming services with more content than most libraries have to offer.

[@DigitalDiabloUK]

Disney are killing physical media in Australasia - physical media only has a limited life cycle I'm afraid.

[@patrickmartin4996]

I have a huge collection of video tapes & DVDs through the years. I would not live long enough to watch them all.

[@jdg5468]

After several updates I’m Impressed with it. PQ is much better now

[@Jayrod64]

ATSC 3.0 just keeps getting worse. Really when it requires an internet connection to work, it's very similar to any other senseless form of always online DRM, with Xbox in particular being the best comparison I can draw from. Everyone remembers Xbox network outage happened and caused everyone to be unable to play the games they actually own, and that was largely caused by the Xbox Series X|S as well as any model of Xbox One requiring an active internet connection at all times. There was no CMOS battery or even offline mode like Steam to fall back in case of an outage. Bottom line, encryption sucks for ATSC 3.0, as does always online DRM.

[@billfusionenterprise]

seen story about playsation battery death???

[@polarvortex6601]

NOPE its just a cable box for ota tv

[@Jayrod64]

@@billfusionenterprise Yes. It still sucks that there's a battery in there that can potentially die and make your system unusable, but the difference is that's a backup in case you have no internet connection at some point(even then it's limited what you can do offline).

[@billfusionenterprise]

@@Jayrod64 ps3, limited, ps4, oops, look it up, there are several videos on it

[@billfusionenterprise]

@@polarvortex6601 shh, public might find out before it is too late

[@TechTimeWithEric]

For what, 60? 70? plus years you could just put an antenna or even a coat hanger on a TV and get whatever is available in your area, and now this ATSC 3.0 stuff

[@igeekone]

Yikes! So, you're telling me, if my internet goes offline I don't get to watch OTA TV?! At that point, streaming makes more sense when you're required to have a always active internet connection. This is the worst of DRM.

[@AAa-qd8hb]

It is worst. Your electronic serial number is tracking you. You may be arrested for going outside of your viewing zone. 15 minute city rules to control everyone.

[@leaftye]

I'd buy the one you reviewed, but the problem with it always being connected to the internet means it could "fix" the DRM at any point.

[@jfwfreo]

Someone needs to start a petition to lobby the FCC (or congress) to change the rules so that DRM is not allowed on OTA TV (or OTA radio for that mater)

[@LonSeidman]

Already done click the link in the description :)

[@AAa-qd8hb]

Nextgen-tv people lied to the public that it is better perfect. It is not perfect. It is worst. Your electronic serial number is tracking you. You may be arrested for going outside of your viewing zone. 15 minute city rules to control everyone.

[@bigkahuna2084]

Looks like somebody hasn't been paying attention to you, wise one! 😉

[@OmegaWolf747]

Moved like this will sound the death knell for OTA TV.

[@Steve-Richter]

Confusing. How would the DRM content provider prevent the HDMI output from being used in whatever way the consumer wants?

[@dedicatedmusiclistener2301]

HDMI has drm as well

[@ronguido916]

PLEASE keep fighting the good fight!!

[@davidvelazquez9473]

Captain Greenacres here! I got two of these boxes in time for the beginning of the NFL season alongside my first ever 4K display. I wasn't disappointed. However, I had better luck receiving ATSC 3.0 out of Miami, as the lighthouse in West Palm Beach is low power. In addition to WTVJ's lighthouse, with WPBT 2, CBS 4, NBC 6, Univision 23, and Telemundo 51, WPLG launched their NextGen lighthouse today with WSVN also participating, thus bringing NextGen TV to all major networks in South Florida. But that pesky DRM remains a major issue. For now, when it comes to receiving such signals, these boxes are the only game in town...

[@michaelsalamone8009]

At this point it's a good idea to open the next gen tv boxes to see what's inside them .

[@techguy3236]

I am wondering if the stuttering problem is being caused by overheating since the device will throttle down if it gets to hot. It looks like a generic Google/Android TV box modified into an OTA tuning device. I suspect the HDCP being off will be fixed in a future OTA update since I do not see the A3SA being happy about that fact. It is disappointing their is no guide data for ATSC 1.0 channels since they will be around for the foreseeable future.

[@simonbyrd6518]

I just hope ATSC 1.0 stays on a very long time..

[@poppy87]

I think eventually network affiliates will see thst this was a waste if money; plus, FASTS are the real future.

[@THEONELB]

The DRM will be hacked once ATSC 3 is rolled out to more metro areas and becomes the norm. Whether it’s through software or tuner emulators or a simple hardware tweak. All DRM/limiting and controlling use does is develop creative ways to get past it.

[@dwild92]

I don’t know how the encryption is implemented but the fact that it needs to download the decrypting key each time point toward them changing the keys from time to time. There’s probably nothing to break security wise, you’ll need the new keys to decrypt it.

[@jfbeam]

Indeed. It never stopped people from pirating DTV, and they've put many millions behind protecting the system.

[@jfbeam]

@@dwild92 Yes, the key(s) change, otherwise, there'd be no point. I suspect the picture stutter is the device being rather stupid with key management. It never actually stops, but skips like there's a bad signal; this screams "I can't multitask" to me. (it stops video decoding while it asks for a "new" key.)

[@midnite630]

Can't wait to see when we have a major event that caused widespread power/internet outages. I'm in NWCT and can't get much on my antenna, and I only use my antenna in an emergency. What ever happened to serving public?

[@LonSeidman]

Just like Eversource , they only care about money now, not us.

[@robertcromwell9736]

So if it requires a net connection why not just use the net for viewing? If this goes full blown then my antenna goes to scrap.

[@jhensjh]

I'm failing to understand how this breaks DRM when it requires an internet connection to decrypt it. A device that requires an internet connection to decrypt OTA TV is not fit for purpose as far as I'm concerned.

[@GadgetAddict]

If it's true that the encryption keys are meant to rotate or change often, I guess that's why they made it so that the box will check for the latest key, every time you open a channel. Maybe they could just cache the key, and only try to update it on the occasion that it finally fails.

[@LonSeidman]

It’s broken in that the hdmi port is free and clear. If their objective was to prevent retransmission they are failing at that here .

[@jhensjh]

@@LonSeidman That sounds more like a broken HDCP implementation, which is not that unusual given how many 4K devices have HDMI issues. To say that this device has broken ATSC 3.0 DRM implies that it can decrypt the signal without needing the encryption keys. That this device requires an internet connection in order to decrypt ATSC 3.0 indicates that it has not broken broken the DRM.

[@LonSeidman]

@@jhensjh Given the rigor of the certification process the fact it has HDMI issues weakens their argument that this is all about hacking and "deep fakes." If it was important they would have ensured it was working on day one - especially as the FCC has an open docket on the transition.

[@bjs2022]

Good report, thanks. But, you failed to tell about the A/V output and that is the reason I wanted this tuner for portable location antenna testing. Using a few A/V breakout cables and adapters I was only able to get the analog stereo audio, no video, although at one time I was able to briefly get video but it did not have horizontal sync. I have ordered an HDMI to analog composite video adapter to see if that will work for me. I already bought a portable rechargeable 12 V lithium ion battery and, fortunately, the connector cable was compatible with the tuner. Also, it has two tuners, not one. It has one ATSC 1 tuner and one ATSC 3 tuner.

[@CoCoNutBob]

Why not just get a cheap HDMI monitor ffs? Composite video is low bandwidth eye poison.

[@CandyGramForMongo_]

You don’t understand what’s going on. If the unit “calls home”, it’s getting the key. As soon as calling home doesn’t work anymore, oh say because the company is facing a lawsuit, they don’t give keys anymore and it stops working. Do this: figure out what this box is phoning home to.

[@LonSeidman]

I understand what is going on - if they were serious about preventing retransmission they’d encrypt the HDMI. Clearly they’re not.

[@jamesm568]

I just got this box and it works ok for me. I don't DVR over-the-air signals anyway. I did overlook that this has an Android operating system and if I have known that I wouldn't bought it as Android is slow. The remote is poorly design when it comes to the colors of the buttons. Manual station tuning are about impossible as I know channel numbers, but they want frequency numbers entered.

[@aramb]

We have a couple of recent large screen Sony TVs at work which are recent enough to have ATSC3 tuners. The TV isn't connected to the network, but it does successfully receive the Boston area NextGen channels. It displays the same "waiting" animation whenever you tune one of the 3.0 channels. Really not liking this.

[@ElvisImpersonator]

DRM: Security by obscurity. It would be "interesting" to perform some packet captures to determine where the DRM keys are hosted. By the OEM, broadcasters, ATSC, A3SA, or NextgenTV. Or is that spelled out in the specifications behind some paywall?

[@jfbeam]

HDCP doesn't protect shit either. There are PLENTY of devices that have "certification" that ignore the rules.

[@dennisud]

Frankly, I'm holding off of buying this and any future ATSC 30. Converters as from what I understand they will all have to decode the DRM signals when the FCC as stated. I know that is still in question, but as more converters have DRM's decoded it will become an industry wide setup soon enough. As for this converter, the remote already put me off as well as the obvious constant connection to the internet! That is too fishy to me right now. 😯And the DRM restriction...What restrictions! 🤨 Again it's as fishy as a large grouper!!! To me so many local broadcasting channels are owned by huge media corprorations, it could be a way to push people to get their local channels on the internet as cable is on its way out.

[@terry5008]

It would be interesting to do a Wireshark capture on the ethernet port to see what traffic is going where and when.

[@caseybrewer8950]

During hurricane Sandy we were lucky and didnt loose power but we didnt have internet, cable or telephone for a week. We were able to watch tv OTA. I do not like the sound of this DRM.

[@Detectken]

So, if someone doesn’t have a home internet service, and all of the local channels are encrypted, they won’t have access to any OTA channels?

[@LonSeidman]

Unfortunately yes that's the case with this one.

[@kjisnot]

I'm new to OTA and trying to figure out how to cut the cable. This device appears to me to need an internet connection to download encryption keys from a host. It's similar to some devices used years ago for satellite TV. The problem is the key may be changed almost anytime and require a host to recapture the key and then make it available to owners of the boxes for signal decryption. There may be a lag in the process when that happens.

[@penultimatename6677]

The first iteration for Zapperbox will also require the internet connection. They claim a near future upgrade will eliminate that requirement. Zapper box claims they will have DRM working around Sept 18. Fingers crossed.

[@danbowling5594]

Yes

[@nonstopper1410]

this is the review I was waiting for!

[@donnaten2]

Thanks Lon!

[@rgarza7264]

I recently purchased this to use at my home in the Austin Tx area. There are two lighthouse stations in Austin (with 4 channels each) and the ADTH saw all 8 channels, however it would only play stations from one lighthouse. The other stations would stay with the loading spinner. For the lighthouse station that DID work, I experienced the same stuttering with playback. Needless to say, I decided to just return it. It’s not worth the headache and stuttering. At the end of the day it’s an Android device with a tv tuner. The UI is extremely difficult to get used to.

[@asan1050]

Lon, Thank you very much!

[@stemlator]

This only goes to show how ridiculous it is to broadcast OTA but require internet to unencrypt the signal. I would rather stream with KZbin TV or similar than go through the hassle. Hopefully, the FCC will prohibit encryption of ATSC 3.0 or the standard will die entirely.

[@ericB3444]

Sonnyball. It’s RO DONKULOIS

[@tim3172]

"I would rather stream with KZbin TV" Link to how to get free YTTV, please. "I'd rather pay 55 bucks a month..." Good for you, I guess?

[@BartlettTFD]

I guess the REAL question about DRM is what will be it’s ultimate purpose or goal? Definitely not to sell little decoder box’s like this one. I’m very much afraid this is only step one of the ultimate goal to require a monthly payment in order to continue watching that channel! Very much like SirusXM satellite radio. You must pay to play their channels. Notice the FCC remains mum about what’s quietly taking place. Except for US public techies, the remainder of the country is totally ignorant of what’s going on! Whatever happened to government transparency❓

[@jfwfreo]

The DRM on OTA TV is about 2 things. First its about stopping piracy (I have seen many instances online of content that has been illegally copied and that has the logo of a US OTA network in the corner) and second its about limiting DVR functionality (specifically things that make it possible to skip the ads)

[@LonSeidman]

And a third- force consumers into expensive tv subscription plans.

[@jfwfreo]

@@LonSeidman There is no evidence to back up any claims that the OTA networks want to make people pay for OTA TV pulled down with an antenna (and they wouldn't be able to get away with such a thing)

[@AAa-qd8hb]

Nextgen-tv people lied to the public that it is better perfect. It is not perfect. It is worst. Your electronic serial number is tracking you. You may be arrested for going outside of your viewing zone. 15 minute city rules to control everyone.

[@AAa-qd8hb]

* NEXTGEN-TV is a failure if people outside of cities have no tv. * 35 MILES OUT = the new NO TV for you "NEAR DEEP FRINGE". * I currently get all ota DC 1.0 tv channels and nextgen-tv does not work at my location. * I own the first officially approved Nextgen-tv ADTH tuner box and I am only 35 miles from the DC nextgen-tv LIGHTHOUSE antenna on RF channel 33 located at Howard University in DC and I only get very short clips with 95 percent nothing. * I am on the new nextgen-tv NO TV FOR YOU fringe. * I have the best outside yagi directional antennas with built-in preamps with RG6 solid copper quad shielded coax cables that are pointed correctly at WHUT NEXTGEN-TV antenna. * Thank you for your time helping the people keep free ota TV.

[@timmturner]

I've been excited about ATSC 3 for years and the wind is fully blown out of the sails now. I won't be using it at all.

[@timbo303official9]

HDCP means nothing when you plug it in a capture card sometimes if it can strip the hdcp. HDCP enabling is pointless until a different input is invented with proper protection. HDCP only prevents the copying off of the device itself like remoting into it mostly as a result. Should point out 4k is locked out not 1080p because 4k gets a lot tricker when no devices can output 4k at a cheap price. You are correct about hdcp not being enabled it should been locked out on your elgato device. They released a firmware update its now at 1.0.75.

[@LonSeidman]

Yeah that’s the firmware I’m on - I downloaded an update yesterday.

[@timbo303official9]

I just realized my pc monitor is hdcp 1.4 which may explain why I am able to bypass hdcp. Hdcp 2.2 requires a splitter where as hdcp versions below don't. That's why 4k rips are hard to come by like I said as hdcp 2.2 supports 4k and will likely degrade the quality slightly.@@LonSeidman

[@lolman123401]

Why would OTA TV be encrypted? I thought the point of OTA TV was that it was free. And if it's free what's the point of having any kind of DRM support? This is so bizarre

[@n1kkri]

Do you think DRM will prevent you from receiving OTA from stations outside your local area? For example Cable TV in RI doesn't have Boston OTA channels only RI. Do you think DRM when plugged into your internet will detect your IP, know the location and prevent for example someone in RI from receiving Boston or CT even thought they can with ATSC 1.0 ?

[@LonSeidman]

It's entirely possible based on what I'm seeing here!

[@AAa-qd8hb]

It is worst. Your electronic serial number is tracking you. You may be arrested for going outside of your viewing zone. 15 minute city rules to control everyone.

[@n1kkri]

@@LonSeidman This is pretty scary stuff without laws put in place. Digital and the controls they can put on what you watch and listen to will be the future. If they did block you from watching out of the "LOCAL" viewing area, I could see it happening with the future of AM/FM broadcasting. You want to know what's going on in the next State you will have to pay royalties.

[@jeremyjedynak]

Bless you Lon for reviewing this dog of a device on your own dime so that everyone else can avoid it.

[@Bare_Essence]

Great overview. Appreciate all the information. I was uninformed on 3.0, but this provided just about everything I looked for in what to expect and current state of implementation. It also unfortunately realized some of the fears. Broadcast is one foot in the grave. There is no money, maybe not enough, in providing entertainment for free that is only add supported OTA. I've dropped cable a couple years back, and now I will have to buy new TVs or use stupid external boxes that have wait times worse than Samsung TV Plus. Yes, this is definitely for the betterment of the tax payers that support OTA.

[@trackingangle929]

Frequent software updates have improved both the performance and usability of this device. Most of the issues you complain about have been addressed (over many OS builds, some of which were disastrous). The remote is not all that difficult to use and again updates make it more than acceptable. The company is incredibly responsive to emails. But whining about a box costing under $100 is ridiculous! With a simple roof antenna I receive around 50 channels. The picture and sound on the network channels is incredibly good and dramatically better than cable (100" screen, Sony laser projector). You ought to revisit this product..

[@timothystevenhoward]

but, the politicians said no internet is required to watch next gen tv broadcasts. they wouldn't lie, would they?

[@hokusman100]

If you have to use the internet to watch OTA what is even the point anymore

[@patrickmartin4996]

There is none.

[@kenteagle2918]

My thoughts are DRM is ruining 3.0, and appears to violate the FCC stance on OTA broadcasts. Those broadcasters that want to employ DRM should be forced to give up some of their bandwidth to create a sister 3.0 channel that is not DRM. They can cull the content they don't want you to see without DRM. Let the FCC have them curate that model for a few years and see how quickly they abandon DRM.

[@msthalamus2172]

Live TV's still a thing? (Kidding.) But seriously, I haven't had use for live TV since shortly after ATSC 1.0 came out. The requirement for an internet connection to tune the broadcasts in is ludicrous. You can't call it "free over-the-air" if someone has to pay for an internet connection to receive it. Yes, we've always had to pay for the electricity it took to run the set, but that's an inherent requirement of the technology. The internet connection is *NOT* required for this to work. It's copyright flexing and nothing more. But again, since the last major OTA TV revolution, I switched first to cable and then to streaming, so I guess I shouldn't care? I guess it bothers me for two reasons: 1) They're taking advantage of people's ignorance around technology to lead them to believe that absolutely not integral technology is absolutely required, and 2) IT'S REGRESSIVE. When I was growing up, we had literally no money left over for entertainment. If I hadn't had free OTA NTSC, I would have had nothing but three or four torn up books and the radio. Literally that's all. An internet connection could take that option away from today's poor. And yes, everyone should care about that.

[@joelgervais8198]

Encrypted or not ATSC3 does not work without internet. Comcast has been working on the coax in my area for a couple of weeks now. No internet no NEXT-GEN TV. I have a brand new 2023 LG OLED and it couldn’t tune in the channels and neither could my HD Homerun. For me ATSC 1 is better. I’m in CT and get stations from multiple markets. I think that won’t be the case when ATSC 1 is turned off. 😢

[@kenc2707]

I wonder if they are also using the internet connection to collect viewer data such as what’s being watched, whether you change channels during commercials and if you don’t watch programs all the way through. Your data is always up for sale to someone.

[@AAa-qd8hb]

* NEXTGEN-TV is a failure if people outside of cities have no tv. * 35 MILES OUT = the new NO TV for you "NEAR DEEP FRINGE". * I currently get all DC 1.0 tv channels and nextgen-tv does not work at my location. * I own the first officially approved Nextgen-tv ADTH tuner box and I am only 35 miles from the DC nextgen-tv LIGHTHOUSE antenna on RF channel 33 located at Howard University in DC and I only get very short clips with 95 percent nothing. * I am on the new nextgen-tv NO TV FOR YOU fringe. * I have the best outside yagi directional antennas with built-in preamps with RG6 solid copper quad shielded coax cables that are pointed correctly at WHUT NEXTGEN-TV antenna. * Thank you for your time helping the people keep free ota TV.

[@MaNameizJeff]

so... what are we doing with ATSC 3 again? is it for hopefully 4k streams? is HD still going to remain on the old? Because I can think of a massive amount of lawsuits if abc/cbs/nbc go dark again for all existing hardware.

[@jjones2582]

So ATSC 3.0 with encryption means no more watching a TV in the boondocks on a generator.

[@tmastersat]

Howdo i watch with no internet

[@joop1987]

Any plans on reviewing the Gen 2 version of this device? ADTH claims "Unconnected DRM Support (No Internet Required)" but we all know how that doesn't work.

[@LonSeidman]

Is there new hardware or just an OS revision?

[@davecool42]

Encrypted channels… Defective by design. Broken out of the box.

[@jerryspann8713]

All in favor of the shitty cable companies. Good OTA signals available to everyone for free would hurt the rebroadcast industry. So let's force you to keep paying these greedy fucks, just to watch TV.

[@AAa-qd8hb]

It is worst. Your electronic serial number is tracking you. You may be arrested for going outside of your viewing zone. 15 minute city rules to control everyone.

[@mB-hv7pc]

Do you think will network tuners can ever be approved for nextgentv atsc3 or only HDMI tuners?

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

Strange that there is no CAM slot that takes a CAM module and associated Viewing card.

[@stemlator]

Another thought: it's ridiculous to require consumers to shell out $99 for a device that has one tuner and no DVR functionality when the HDHomeRun and other similar devices exist. It's a slap in the face to consumers.

[@patrickmartin4996]

I don't see 3.0 going anywhere for a long time.....

[@firesurfer]

@@patrickmartin4996 New TVs will probably have the new tuner built in. When is the question. edit; I just looked and many tvs already have it.

[@patrickmartin4996]

It will be sometime as people need to buy these TVs will the new tuners. Out here we have one LPTV and translators. Who knows when those will switch...

[@digitalmediafan]

Can't imagine this happening here in the UK on our terrestrial freeview system. Even iptv channels are FTA

[@kensmith5694]

Don't you guys pay to have TV etc in the taxes?

[@digitalmediafan]

@@kensmith5694 yes a yearly tv licence for £159 or $200 but probably will be abolished in a few years

[@kensmith5694]

@@digitalmediafan I think a law like that should be kept. It reminds the public that they are the ones who should be in control of that programming rather than some corporation.

[@EMNM22]

6:20 I dont think they really care, otherwise they would have fiqured that out before they brought it to market! BUT thanx for giving them a heads up since YOU paid for the box. So they can charge you more money for a over-engineered box.

[@maximo9480]

HD Homerun was the first to offer an ATSC 3.0 tuner and so far it will not decode 3.0 stations. Now someone puts out a Nextgen box and you will have to pay (AGAIN) to receive over-the-air TV decode. When will HD Homerun live up to their promise to have their box receive and decode Nextgen without additional cost?

[@VictorCaro]

So... If your internet is down then watching encrypted channels is a no go?

[@LonSeidman]

Correct - unless you tuned the channel before it went down and didn't change it.

[@CommodoreFan64]

@@LonSeidman Well then ATSC 3.0 is worthless, as the reason many people like myself still have an antenna is for when the internet goes out in say bad weather, and we don't want to use our phones if we don't have too.

[@patrickmartin4996]

3.0 is useless. @@CommodoreFan64

[@cmfrancis1]

Once encryption/DRM comes to our local area, I'm done with TV. There's not much on anyway and I have better things to do with my time.

[@pgtmr2713]

It sounds like OTA tv is ending itself.

[@joe10117]

tried and failed no way to record untill middle of this yr ??? still didn t fix buffering atsc 3.0 sensitive.. however need to rotate rescane per city... donot reccomend it.. returned for refund

[@erod19969]

Emergency alert system? Could be why the emergency alert system was enabled on all cell phones?

[@RobFuz]

Hey Lon are you reviewing the new Tablo 4th Gen this week? 🎉🎉🎉

[@JohnWilliams-gy5yc]

This is pretty bad. The DRM works the same way on streaming services. The device holds only an cryptographic identity and using it to request decryption keys via the internet. This way the content providers can control manufacturers who pose a threat to them by banning the identity of manufacturer. This might turn out to be good. If the ban happens, and I think it will, it will bring the issue to the court. The content owners already have the internet to sell. Why wouldn't we make OTA tv to be all free?

[@jamesm568]

Did the recent updates help with performance?

[@nikosaek781]

question what is the usb port for ?

[@djkraze5018]

I was driving on the Berling Turnpike yesterday and passed right by all those New Braitain Transportation strikers.

[@juangualda1426]

How is the quality of the Tuner on 1.0 and 3.0? Sensitive?

[@nilesstewart5287]

Did you try an RF attenuator just in case the receiver is hot and being over driven?

[@BreakTime10101]

Thanks for doing this video. Pass for me. Are there any updates on the HDHomeRun DRM software?

[@mephitusincognito7918]

This completely runs afoul of the EAS.... how is this legal?