Adult Relations in Car End in $5.2M Judgment?!

And she wants GEICO to pay for it.
www.lehtoslaw.com

[@DoubleDoubleWithOnions]

Geico initially told the woman "we only pay out on actual auto claims" so she told them to write it up as a rear ender.

[@sheldonpetrie3706]

😳🤣🤣🤣

[@briangarrow448]

You win the internet today!🤣🤣🤣

[@ronaldbradley9949]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@benmartinez1267]

🥁

[@spvillano]

Definitely not a hit and run, which typically isn't covered.

[@michaelgraff6978]

When I was 12, I had a computer that was destroyed by a nearby lightning strike. My mother had specifically placed a rider on the computer to cover it. Lightning strikes were covered, but exclusions for "chips, capacitors, resistors, and other electronic components are not covered." I hired a lawyer (well, ok, my mother did, but I was the one doing all the talking about the situation because my mother didn't understand computers at all). We want to trial in front of a judge. My lawyer asked the insurance rep to say what was covered, and State Farm's lawyer indicated he was "not competent to make that determination." The judge said, "If he sells insurance, he surely knows what he's selling." They didn't make that mistake again, and he admitted that "basically, the computer's case." They brought a person from the local power company to show that their graph shows no voltage spikes that evening. I asked the lawyer to ask, "would that show local strikes?" He asked, and the answer was a clear, "Oh no, we have suppression all along the lines so strikes are localized, and we have no data on local strikes." I won about a $1500 judgement, of which the lawyer took about $300. I was able to repair the computer myself for far less than the judgement. Had they just paid what we asked -- the repair cost of $250 or so -- they'd have saved a lot of time.

[@tsherwoodrzero]

If it was in the past decade, I wouldn't be surprised that an insurance company is failing basic arithmetic skills in favor of their ego.

[@DKNguyen3.1415]

What a scam.

[@baldrian22]

it probably cost them more than 250 to fight it to. so they lost 3 times you could say, lost time, they lost the case and they lost a unkown amount of money overall.

[@bikkiikun]

It's the princpie of not paying that drives these companies. If insurance would simply pay and not try to wiggle out of every claim, they'd save a lot of money in legal fees, and salaries for lawyers and claim deniers.

[@markmcleod5079]

@@bikkiikunAgreed, plus once they lawyer up, most folks back down, so they win by default. They’re playing the odds and know they can out spend those filing claims, in most cases.

[@learningpianoat61]

It's comforting to know that everything I do, no matter how bloody stupid, can always be blamed on (and financed by) someone else! :)

[@Orc-icide]

Especially if you're entitled

[@robertthegrape2192]

But only if your cat is talented.

[@Elladril]

Welcome to America where everyone thinks they are entitled to everything for free

[@davidroberson1962]

If you are swinging on a swing and fall off. That is part of the deal. If you are swinging on someone else's swing and they know it is about to snap and let you swing anyway without warning you and it breaks and it hurts you then they were negligent. I guess it depends on how you look at it. Geico had a contract that said they were responsible for it and the court/arbitrator found the guy responsible due to his actions. In this case, he actually paid to have insurance on the vehicle and the wording covered the action.

[@aellis6692]

Merica baby

[@jelliebird37]

A man, a woman and a gecko walk into a bar … and the gecko gets screwed by the courts.

[@_BAD_MERC_]

So Steve, this begs the question: Will homeowners insurance cover the same if it happened under the curtilage of the home? How about contracting an STD at a hotel? What about the "Mile High" encounters?

[@j.rbry.8990]

Maybe we could have sued Delta for negligence, but we were having too much fun to worry about that. Mile High forever.

[@TheRealScooterGuy]

Would a public swimming pool be negligent if....

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Honestly, that seems far more legitimate to me. Houses and hotel rooms are more or less the best examples of places where you would expect that kind of behavior to happen.

[@_BAD_MERC_]

@@SmallSpoonBrigade theres a gray area when defining "appropriate places" with vehicles. Limousines and conversion vans have plenty of room.

[@suedenim9208]

What part of *the guy* being the one who's responsible is confusing? GEICO is simply his insurance provider.

[@tayzonday]

How can she prove the “injury” didn’t come from someone else or somewhere else? The world is a minefield of chances to get injured this way!

[@additudeobx]

What kind of insurance fraud scam is this, eh?

[@WhiteCollarCrimeDNB]

If he testifies under oath that it was his negligence that infected her that's enough.

[@WhiteCollarCrimeDNB]

@@additudeobx a brilliant one. Insurance companies are a blight on our economy. This is payback for every person left broken by the grim calculus of claims adjusters

[@BrettWms]

Well, it stated that he had the "disease" and she ended up with it without first telling her that he had said affliction. So 2+2 in this case really does equal 4.

[@volvo09]

Seems like that dosen't matter because of the procedures of court... They apparently waived their opportunity to bring up anything at trial by denting the claim rather than bringing it to court. But it's not finalized yet.

[@Cre8tvMG]

And how do we know that SHE didn't give it to him, and just blamed him later?

[@kennethwilson1117]

They are probably working together 😅

[@HoneySuckle123]

That's what im thinking 😅 he had it first, and they planned the rest....​@kennethwilson1117

[@hauntedshadowslegacy2826]

Because the finding was that he knew he had it and didn't tell her. I'd wager there's a medical record involved in that regard.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

I wonder if they gave it to the arbitrator as well...

[@blackosprey2219]

I'd assume medical records.

[@williamr.kirkland6317]

If no one else says so, We, old folks, really appreciate the clear and concise manner you use to explain what's what in these type issues. Thanks a bunch! Please keep it up.

[@theHAL9000]

Pretty crazy! If they had their "encounter" in a hotel, a municipal public park, on a cruise ship, on a bale of hay in a barn ... would any of these locations be materially important? Just sounds nuts to me and beyond common-sense.

[@volvo09]

If you listen to the entire segment it's more of a procedural thing. Due to how Geico handled it initially, they lost their ability to say prove where it happened by having a trial.

[@SeanBZA]

True, but in those cases the owner or insurer of the location would also be told of the case, and would have replied that what they did was their own concern, and that the owner or insurer is in no way associated with the action. Here it was that the insurance company was told the insured was being sued for an action in the vehicle, covered by the broad wording of the policy for an "injury inside the vehicle, not excluded from the policy specifically as a class" and that they could be paying for it as insurer of the vehicle, but chose to not act on the case, and thus did not say that this is not an insurable action, leaving them open to the claim going against them.

[@NuncNuncNuncNunc]

This is why you should do your impromptu adult hugging in a motel.

[@theHAL9000]

@@SeanBZA Yes, I caught all that, but am somewhat flabbergasted by the idea that an arbiter, or any serious and sober-minded individual for that matter, could have ruled in this way. STD is contracted out of an encounter between two consenting adults that took place in an automobile, and the automobile insurer has to pay ... and that is lunacy. So we'll expect added boilerplate to policies plus increased premiums. The cost of vanishing common-sense in US society.

[@randomnobody660]

Well you can't only apply common sense one way can you. Are you similarly flabbergasted when your common sense tells you insurance should cover something but some fine print or case law disagrees? If, like imo most people, your reaction to my hypothetical would be "o well, shoulda read the fine print", surely it should be the same in this case no?

[@obsidianmoon13]

As someone who recently got screwed over by Geico, I find this absolutely hilarious.

[@PierreaSweedieCat]

Were you injured?

[@MickeyMishra]

I have to agree. That and Progressive. They once canceled me simply asking if i need extra insurance to deliver pizzas. I was in my office on a Navy base, and they said they heard a pizza joint in the background? From there? It was USAA and to hell with Geico. Second time it was with Progressive. They canceled my insurance policy that I PAID FOR, and then never bothered to call me about it as I was in another state working. Best part? Ask them why? They said my now ex said it was DV and they had to do it. I could almost hear that smile on the progressive womens face on the phone. That's illegal. But they did it anyways. These companies can fund themselves. It's better to keep your own policy if your state allows it and your wealthy enough to do so.

[@gavnonadoroge3092]

obsidianmoon13, can you share how you got screwed by geico?

[@julietteoscaralphanovember2223]

I did too and I'm happy about it too

[@MickeyMishra]

@@gavnonadoroge3092 active duty military. I called them from my office and my chief and others were in the office and I asked about working at a pizza place while I wasn't doing anything and just by calling them and asking them if I needed extra insurance coverage they canceled my insurance. They stated that they heard a pizza joint in the background. I'm on a submarine base in an office. I asked them what kind of pizza place has a government phone number and they didn't want to respond to that. after that I jump ship for USAA

[@timbeach2409]

Accident report says that a bus full of lawyers flew off the road down into a ravine killing everyone. The sad news was they know one seat was empty when it left its starting point.

[@Nightowl5454]

This sets an extremely dangerous precedent for courts and criminals that are going to try to take advantage of it.

[@blainelytle341]

Only in Missouri...

[@Nightowl5454]

@@blainelytle341 what gets adopted as precedent in 1 state frequently spreads to other states.

[@blainelytle341]

@@Nightowl5454 from what I understand it'll only extend to other states is if it gets upheld at the Federal Appeals level... If it goes to them and they ' shot it down ' , it'll stay at the state level and won't / can't be extended to other states.. No ?

[@RichardFelstead1949]

So a lady who gets pregnant from an "activity" in the car could claim the child's expenses until said child is an adult 18 or 21 or whatever age for that state.

[@michaelmarchese2733]

I hope people adult relationship these insurance companies as hard as they do every other person they cum in contact with

[@mjmeans7983]

I'm surprised there is no clause that limits insurance liability to the uses of vehicles only to its common purpose of transportation on a roadway or other suitable surface. I can't wait for the claims that a vehicle failed to safely fly and land when the driver purposely went over a guard rail.

[@jeffsadowski]

The vehicle was in site when I fell out of the tree. The vehicle was at fault because autopilot didn't come and save me.

[@davidwise2489]

There will be one shortly, no doubt. This is where dumb warnings come from.

[@Michael-yd7nt]

Was looking for the comment. In this instance, the car was being used more like a residence or an hourly motel than an automobile. If someone uses the car as a restroom and someone else gets sick from spending time in the car would auto insurance cover treatment for that illness?

[@OneWheelMan]

Seriously. If someone decides to shoot up drugs and overdose in the car, is the car insurance company liable? If I use the back of a van as a back alley tattoo parlor, should the insurance company be liable if someone gets an infection? It should really be limited to normal operation of the vehicle or its functions.

[@RBrown-uk4xt]

This other guy had a heart attack in the back seat of a parked car... That means it is the cars fault, right?

[@ErikaEmody]

“Very different skillsets” is the best line of the video. 💯

[@LuckyCharms777]

As someone who is this many years old, I appreciate that you kept this video family friendly.

[@queazocotal]

In March, this apparently was finally overturned after hitting the supreme court and bouncing to the lower court. 'STD contracted during car sex isn't covered by GEICO auto policy, federal judge rules' in the ABA journal.

[@sisilotau2185]

It’s silly a court even needed to waste time ruling on this. I guess it was a good attempt to try and screw over the insurance company but realistically there should never be an expectation something like this would be covered

[@chuckschillingvideos]

@@sisilotau2185 Well, the arbitrator, the Missouri trial court, and the lower Missouri court of appeals went along for the fraud ride...pretty scary.

[@NotGoodAtNamingThings]

Does that mean the dude is on the hook for the arbitration agreement, or that the woman gets nothing?

[@felixguilbeault6329]

Hotel insurers, home insurers, summer camp insurers, school insurers must all be scrambling to stave off the expected wave of new claims headed their way!

[@taoliu3949]

The insurance policy matters. Automobile insurances typical covers injuries caused from the operation of an automobile. Home insurance doesn't normally cover injuries resulting from a home (except if it collapses etc).

[@Mercurio-Morat-Goes-Bughunting]

It doesn't mean such claims hold any water. The case never aired because the insurer volunteered liability a priori by choosing to intervene after the opportunity to make a case had passed. The lesson to be learned is to make up your mind. Make a decision and stick to it. The insurer wanted to have it both ways; let the other parties invest their time in arbitration then waste everyone's time with a redundant court case to decide a matter already settled by arbitration so they could set a precedent for dodging the bullet. Instead, they failed to dodge the bullet and set no precedent. All in all, a stellar judgement by the court.

[@AzraelThanatos]

Probably not, this was due to the arbitration part where it came up. Pretty much all of those insurers are smart enough to actually show up for arbitration and court rather than waving it off.

[@boataxe4605]

@@taoliu3949 But this wasn’t operations of an automobile,she was playing with a different stick shift.

[@taoliu3949]

@@boataxe4605 Well, then should have made that argument in court/arbitration.

[@lizziefingers7528]

As the former owner of a VW bug, I could really relate to his comment about "skill sets."

[@gr8rw8r]

If the defendant had got pregnant from said vehicular activity would the insurance company be liable for a portion of child support?

[@jamesa2961]

I was a bouncer at a bar. And I was leaving work . And a incident happened when I was walking out to my car that was with a few very drunk ladies hanging out in the parking lot. I told them they had to leave and I got in my car. They said something I rolled down the window and responded lol thus for then one of the girls started hitting me in the face and hurt her hand on my face and sued me for 50k. They actually paid her 3,600 bucks I was so pissed

[@robertthegrape2192]

See, young man if you had left your face at home the young lady wouldn’t be able to strike it.

[@Chimonya]

Geico would only be liable for the coverage plan maximum regardless. but I doubt they lose the federal case either. If so holding insurers would be out of business in seconds. Imagine all the "harms" of the master bed and bath.

[@LuckyCharms777]

That reminds me of a chorus from a Johnny Cash song: Don't Take Your Face To Town, Son Leave Your Face At Home, Bill Don't Take Your Face To Town

[@jefferykaplan4400]

You should have counter sued. It's disturbing that some one and get money for it.

[@jefferykaplan4400]

Some one hit and gets money for injuries to themself. That nuts

[@xhippiewanderer]

So if they had the encounter in the home, she can sue the home insurance company? No wonder insurance rates are goint thru the roof!

[@taoliu3949]

Does home insurance cover injuries caused by the home?

[@lrmackmcbride7498]

She caught a contagious disease. Most homeowners policies specifically exclude contagious diseases. My renters policy excludes contagious diseases. But if a guest stubbed their toe on a coffee table after adult activities and broke their toe that would be covered as would inadvertent injuries during such activities. For example flag football in the back yard.

[@Mercurio-Morat-Goes-Bughunting]

Nope, that's not what happened. The insurer volunteered liability by choosing to intervene after the opportunity to make a case had passed.

[@taoliu3949]

@@Mercurio-Morat-Goes-Bughunting More accurately, they volunteered liability when they chose NOT to intervene when their client went to arbitration.

[@Mercurio-Morat-Goes-Bughunting]

@@taoliu3949 I don't know about that. Failing to intervene at arbitration was voluntarily pinning everything on a dice roll - and the odds of the gamble would have remained largely unchanged had the insurer kept their noses out of it once it went to court. But when they petitioned intervention after the award had been made, there was no other outcome but for them to become liable for those damages should the petition be successful.

[@calebfielding6352]

I think its hilarious that arbitration is finally being used against corporations. They pushed this insanity through, and now its biting them in the butt. I am looking forward to arbitration going away since it clearly ignores due process. Honestly arbitration throws out due process.

[@tdcd2873]

The other thing that consumers are doing to combat arbitration is flooding companies with claims. As alot of the arbitration clauses have the company bearing the cost of starting a claim. If they get a ton of customers filing claims they are out and have been not informing the arbitration process.

[@Pheonixco]

This should be the top comment, Arbitration clauses except in rare cases like this basically are a means to subvert the justice system, put consumers or employees at an unequal footing, and pretty much allow corporations to shirk the consumer by doing way less than they promised.

[@michaelhanson5773]

yeah... arbitration is a joke for consumers. the corps tout how it is so great and done by an independent 3rd party.. they neglect to mention that the arbitration is paid for by the company and at the place of their choice... when you think about it, if the company pays all costs and chooses the place to hear the case, that hardly makes them an independent 3rd party since it would be in their interest to rule in their favor to have them keep coming back to pay. usually when companies tell you they do something in your best interest, it should really be investigated to make sure.

[@KristopherBel]

@@M167A1 you know that insurance companies make profit right?

[@shulermilton1]

@@KristopherBel Huge profits.

[@chieft3357]

you're right, the best one ever. I loved your explanation of events in order to keep everything PG. Good going.

[@ronharvey8442]

What a double edged sword. On one side, Geico was given notice, opportunity, and took action, ALL based on arrogance that the claim had no chance. Both their inaction and actions allowed and created the very loss they received. The other side is what a horrible legal precedent being set here.

[@jamesalias595]

So can you sue the hotel chain and it's insurance if you get knocked up in a hotel room? Can you sue someone's homeowners insurance for catching something in their bedroom after doing the hoochie-coochie? This is just stupid interpretation of the law. The law lacks common sense.

[@landen1234]

I think the key difference here is that the person who insured the vehicle, and it happened in that vehicle. A hotel isn’t insured by random guests. Unless you hooked up with a hotel staff or owner, in which case yeah you’d probably have a case against the hotels insurance for anything that happens. If it happened at your home, your home insurer could be sued for damages or injuries you did unto someone. This isn’t terribly outlandish after some reflection on all the details.

[@robertdrake1756]

In addition to doin the nasty, how about you catch the flu from aunt nellie at her holiday gathering and wind up in the hospital? This says it is auntie's insurance that would pay for your stay. That is one way to interpret the ruling. But in this case geico ignored her claim due to negligence on geico's part. All geico probably had to do was show up once during the claim process. In our examples, the insurance company would probably show up and the claim would go no further. The $5.2 mil seems to be the arbitrator sticking it to geico for blowing the claim off.

[@Genesh12]

SEVERAL YEARS BEFORE HE DIED, ED MCMAHON(JOHNNY CARSON'S SIDEKICK) SUED A COUPLE HE WAS GOOD FRIENDS WITH. ED FELL IN THE COUPLE'S HOME, BROKE HIS NECK, AND HE ASKED THEM TO COVER HIS MEDICAL BILLS. THE COUPLE REFUSED SO HE SUED THEIR INSURANCE COMPANY AND THEM.

[@BPNess2]

@@robertdrake1756 A 5.2m award based on negligence means this not a simple flu. It means she contracted an incurable sti, he knew he had it and never disclosed it.

[@azrobbins01]

@@robertdrake1756 If the aunt knew they had the flu and went to the gathering anyway, then it might count as negligence, and she might be liable under those circumstances. In this case, the man apparently knew he had the disease when they got intimate, and therefore he is liable for infecting her. If the aunt in your scenario did not know she was sick, then there was no negligence on her part.

[@jeremy8929]

If I was the judge on that case, I would tell her to get the hell out of my courtroom.

[@KNByam]

Exactly. That's stupid to even entertain that case.

[@2Dcmbr7]

Great. These companies love arbitration unless they lose, THEN they want to go to court….

[@LuciousVBogeymanProd]

I had a smoking buddy at work who was an insurance adjuster. He had war stories and his punchline was always “Insurance contracts pay for SPECIFIC losses”. He had me believing that failure to exclude was never really a problem. If the contract covers it. It’s a known recurrent phenomena and there are actuarial data for it. If It isn’t normal enough to be in the actuary tables it ain’t covered.

[@SmittyAZ]

The insured is now suing the Car Dealer and 3M; The additional add-on Scotch Guard was supposed to prevent all kinds of stains.

[@davidtuer5825]

Not to mention durex because he wasn't wearing one.

[@Wolfie713]

"Where was Geico during this? Not during the backseat action, but during the litigation." I'd like to know where they were during the backseat action.

[@randystegemann9990]

I'd love to see a commercial where the gecko addresses this sort of thing.

[@Primalxbeast]

Now I'm picturing a lizard hiding in the car watching the action. He was embarrassed at the time and didn't want to say anything.

[@Wolfie713]

I'd much rather see a Farmer's Insurance commercial about this. Their slogan of "We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two" would take on an entirely new meaning.

[@brentfarvors192]

They were in the office thinking that they pulled a fast one with the arbitration clause in the contract...

[@fzerowipeoutlover]

Imagine if the cash with the googly eyes was watching them in the act lol

[@christytaylor5554]

Thank you Steve, I heard about this case on the radio a while back and thought it was insane; however the facts you presented make it more understandable, and I get it now.

[@MrTravel4nutin]

Gieco has officially brought back its slogan. Navigate Life’s Curves with Geico.

[@marktravelinPI]

If this happened in the city park, would the city be liable for the injuries incurred?

[@SeanBZA]

No, sign at entrances say city is indemnified against any actions that occur in the park, even if they are as a direct result of action, or negligence, by city officials, or employees, or contractors. You would have to prove it was deliberately done by the city, or it's representatives, while acting in official capacity for the city. Do not think doing this particular act was officially condoned by the city in any case ever.

[@alanmcentee9457]

You sue the person responsible for the damages. Here, he is the insured and responsible for the award. Because of his contract between the insured and Geico the court is forcing Geico to pay the award.

[@trueheart1372]

Also it was the policy holder who did the deed witch city official or even the city park itself gave it to her lol

[@BlankBrain]

@@SeanBZA So, all I have to do is put up a sign that says that I am indemnified against any actions that occur on my property, even if they are as a direct result of action, or negligence by myself, employees of myself, or contractors, or guests.

[@Mercurio-Morat-Goes-Bughunting]

Only if they agreed to indemnify visitors against said injuries

[@keinlieb3818]

It's no wonder the US is going to s**t with judgements like this. I've always thought it's stupid that insurance pays out millions when someone hurts themselves at someone else's property or business. Tired of stupid people getting rewarded for being stupid.

[@arinerm1331]

This case, if it stands, most definitely qualifies for a "Stella Award" because ...damn.

[@domingodeanda233]

I totally agree with you

[@donquihote6023]

The Law was Usurped long ago in the US. It is a self serving institution.

[@Mark_87]

Hopfully she gets in a wreck and doesn't make it through

[@robertsalazar2770]

This is absurd. A contract would be never ending. Contracts are ludicrous in their length now. Stuff like this just reinforces how crazy our society has become.

[@DGardhouse]

I had some of my memorable moments with my girlfriend in a 1974 Chrysler New Yorker. Now that’s a land “yacht”…. LOL

[@dutchangle229]

So, this is what I've been paying insurance premium for, for 40 years with no claims..? I am disgusted!

[@mojavedesertsonorandesert9531]

😂😂...

[@mcarlysle1]

Surprised it fell within the "normal use" clause in a vehicle. I would have thought that irregular or abnormal use of the vehicle would have absolved Geico of any liability. Surely that is a clause found in any auto insurance policy.

[@trueheart1372]

It's bec they don't know or need to follow the rules in arbitration it's arbitrarily decided

[@Foolish188]

People have been having "Activities" in cars since they were invented. Pretty common.

[@zowxon]

I doubt that there is anything irregular or abnormal about this particular use of a vehicle.

[@K5ALLEN]

Normal use of a motorhome?

[@wolfgangfalck1250]

What do you mean? I live in my car.... now I can´t safely stub someone in there?

[@lindablackmore5882]

I absolutely love your posts and take on facts. This is HYSTERICAL!! Wouldn’t you love to see videos of the courtroom??

[@altriplett9099]

I’m not a fan of insurance companies, but WTF? She should be fined, for frivolous lawsuits!

[@barrythomas529]

So if you caught COVID at someone's else's house.... Guess you can sue their insurance..

[@Rob2]

Not in their house. In their car, otoh...

[@dez135]

yes you can sue, the problem here is that geico was notified and ignored it, they realized too late it was serious. you can sue for anything and if the other party does not show up they default forfeit the case

[@danbusey]

The most entertaining half hour I've had in quite some time. Thank you Steve!

[@jorceshaman]

I'm actually surprised that my dad's insurance has been paying out for his car running him over while he was working on it. It fell off of whatever was holding it up and rolled over his chest. They've been paying for his medical and loss of work ever since.

[@mofbombay6290]

Because they insure the vehicle itself

[@1FatHappyBirthday]

Every insurance company will now get you to sign that we only cover “these items” listed and STD’s ain’t one of them.

[@Jerry-ko9pi]

How did she prove that it happened at the time they were IN the said car? Guess that was the only time they had ADULT relations? LOL So if this happens in the house, they would still pay right? Charlie better watch out!

[@barrythomas529]

Great news...... I caught COVID at a friend's house. So I can fill all medical bills against his insurance.

[@deejayyy1681]

I've had plenty of one night stands inside my pickup truck 🛻 it's absolutely possible 😆 🤣

[@corssecurity]

She didn't sue Geico, she sued him.

[@Tyrentenir]

@@barrythomas529 You'd have to sue your friend, go to arbitration, win, and he'd have to have a broad enough clause in his homeowners insurance that would enable you to pursue them for that due to his actions in the home. Your friend would have had to know he had COVID, knowingly exposing you without your knowledge too to make it actionable. The insurance would have to negligently decide to not defend your friend, or otherwise fail to in the arbitration, and they would still have the ability to seek a declaratory judgment that they are not liable for this. If you listen to the whole case and don't try to shortcut the story, you understand how many ways the insurance company failed here. They still have recourse, and would still only be liable for up to the policy's liability insurance limit. The legal system is already gamed so that it's pay to play. It's kind of funny when the biggest players accidentally lose through a series of mistakes.

[@macattack5863]

@@barrythomas529 I mean you have to prove liability and damages and they likely don't have insurance for injury of guests.

[@dilsoncamacho4100]

IMO there should be a clear limit of what kind of injuries are covered in this kind of "coverage". Getting sick or getting stabbed by a passanger isn't really "car insurance" material... does that insurance include if the insured driver chokes on a peanut inside the car too?

[@Mercurio-Morat-Goes-Bughunting]

That depends on the policy and the legal requirements for third party coverage

[@shawncalhoun1363]

So if my Uber or Lyft driver coughs and a week later I test positive for COVID or some other issue I can sue?? This is nuts...

[@Mercurio-Morat-Goes-Bughunting]

@@shawncalhoun1363 Only if the insurer agrees to cover it; either in the policy or by riding into court and petitioning for intervention AFTER the damages have been awarded!

[@hifiandrew]

I don't understand that either. I can't believe there's no language that simply says this coverage applies only to injuries incurred within the nexus of operating a motor vehicle for its intended purpose of transportation. All other injuries are not covered.

[@lrmackmcbride7498]

@@shawncalhoun1363 you would have to prove it is more likely than not that you got covid from that incident. In this case it was an 'uncommon' strain of hpv that causes cancer. Hence the huge damages. Cancer is expensive.

[@gregt7817]

Has the federal court yet issued a decision on this matter? If so, is it subject to appeal at a higher court?

[@williamwhite9767]

The world has gone crazy. Does this mean that if they had copulated in the guy's house, his homeowners insurance would be liable.

[@johnregan2882]

You crack me up Letho! "...different skill sets." "Horse has left the barn." And the cow's been "milked".

[@theagemaway]

Okay what I'm really confused about is the fact that she arbitrated with "the insured", yet somehow the judgement is against "Geico". How does the arbitrator have the authority to give an award against a party that isn't present?

[@oceancon]

Exactly as it seems that Geico is a third party not subject to the arbitration, no?

[@sovietdies]

@@oceancon gecio has duty to defend ig

[@sovietdies]

MO is making an automobile damages claim against a client of Geico, which Geico declinded to join. The automobile damage happened to be an STD/STI that occurred during sex in the insured vehicle. Geico has a duty to defend their client against damages pertaining to the insured automobile.

[@mikeslater6246]

@@sovietdies people with opinions like yours are why our insurance rates are going through the roof. An auto accident policy forced to cover the sexual activities of two people in a car is moronic at best. This Insanity has got to stop.

[@sovietdies]

@@mikeslater6246 None of what I said was an opinion, it is just what happened.

[@marksmith7054]

As an X Insurance Adjuster, the first Adjuster on this claim Dropped the ball, he/she should have found an exclusion in the policy for this claim, if they couldn't find it they should have been in touch with the Legal Dept. this already sounds like a Scam between the Insured and the woman. I am willing to bet that she caught something from him during their relationship or vise Versa, and then came up with this scam to peg the auto insurance, if they would look at this couple and find out how long they have been together it would be very hard to prove that she contracted anything in the car.

[@BorealisNights]

Only in the USA... I'm Canadian, and although I'm not a lawyer, I have been a 'representative' for an appellant before. (that's neither here nor there, just pointing out I'm not an idiot) I can't, for one minute, believe that this case could work out in that way, here. It would be like your infamous "hot coffee vs. McDonalds" case, having the woman's auto insurer being drawn into the case because it happened in her car. Or, you're driving down the road, hot day, windows down... a bee flies in, and stings the passenger, has a bad reaction... sues the insurance company for an act of nature. This is TOTALLY absurd, and if it should be left standing after federal decision... then Americans can expect their auto insurance rates to AT LEAST TRIPLE, if not QUADRUPLE... think of all the ways folks would start to try to sue for stuff not even remotely to do with safe operation of a motor vehicle. My advice?, start saving up to build a barn to house the horses you're all gonna be riding when you can no longer afford insane insurance rates.👍🏼✌🏼🇨🇦

[@skgerttula]

I don't know if I think she's brilliant, crazy, or full of it and they're in it together.

[@petervansan1054]

Obvious stupid attempt at insurance fraud

[@alleny2971]

I should go after my ex wife’s lovers home insurance policy.

[@mwwhited]

This should be tossed on the fact the two colluded within intent to force the insurance company to pay the claim. It's very obvious the insurance is judgement proof on a $5.2Million dollar claim and even the $1Million MO was trying to get in the first place is again a fraudulent claim. The actions take were not reasonable and expected coverage items for car insurance anywhere in the world... let alone this crazy persons mind. And any judge or other state actor that tried to enforce this arbitration should be similarly charged with fraud and abuse of power.

[@tonysofla]

judgement proof? pretty sure Geico has a few million in the bank account to the ceased.

[@victorvonsteuben1728]

You are clearly wrong. Was the arbitrator also in on it? And the judge? Maybe the president was helping pull some strings too.

[@kennethwilson1117]

How do you prove they colluded though?

[@finerbiner]

@@victorvonsteuben1728 He is clearly right. car insurance is not for VD. The fact that any person on earth would defend this garbage is quite a statement on just how stupid our country is.

[@coupledyetivonvanderburg5385]

@@finerbiner The fact anyone would defend the interests of a government mandated, multi-billion dollar scam is quite a statement on just how stupid our country is.

[@TheAngryVet]

Brother...it's not just the story that is fire...it is your delivery of it as well...js

[@Albatr0ss222]

Fayette Town, my favorite Michigan park!! Shout out from Traverse city. Enjoy the channel Steve, thanks.

[@dennisberman4640]

Ben - Steve's left side, lower shelf, atop books.

[@DesertJoe]

Side note to add... I absolutely love the pearls of wisdom at the end of these videos. Today's: "Mornings would much better if they came later in the day." 🤣

[@markstuber4731]

If I remember correctly, years ago when I was taking a P&C insurance class, communicable diseases are explicitly excluded from Home Owners insurance for this very reason. A similar case happened before but simply involving home owner's insurance.

[@donpickett5819]

Mr. Lehto This remines me of a incident that happen at Spring Arbor University. I lived AND worked there as a custodian/janitor. I'm was 63 years old at the time, I'm retired now. On a weekend, I decided to go kayaking north of Jackson. Mi, had a Beautiful very HOT day (about four hours long) came back to my residence, at spring arbor university apartment, proceeded to pull kayak off of my car, I noticed a black SUV parked two parking spaces down RUNNING with the air on (the air compressor kicking on and off) for over 5 Minutes long. As i was unloading life preserver vest, kayak, paddle, and cooler, kept turning to look to see if any body was coming to turn this SUV off. I'm NOT A CAR GUY..........BUT............I know what warped heads can do to a motor! You can probably see where this is going. I pass this couple everyday as they are student at SAU. I walked over to the SUV to open door and turn it off figuring someone just got sidetracked taking in groceries in apartment and cellphone went off. BOY WAS I W R O N G THANK GOD THE DOOR WAS LOCK, but she screamed and jump up. passed him by the next day and apologized, gave me pleasant grin "ok" never saw her again. Very CHRISTIAN SCHOOL, STRONG MORALS CODE FOR STUDENTS. I thought about it a couple of days later and told my boss, he was not to happy and say i should have told them to get a motel room! and not at a parking lot!!!!!!! this is from story about ADULT RELATION IN CAR END IN $5.2 JUDGEMENT DATED JUNE 2022

[@tonysofla]

if Geico never knew there was an arbitration, how could they had gone to the arbitration? After they turned down her $1M settlement, how would they know she went on to personally sue the guy? Geico need to constantly harvest court and arbitration names daily for a match?

[@AzraelThanatos]

They were informed, but declined to get involved because they seemed to think it was stupid...until arbitration was finished and the ruling was being put into the court as a legal judgement...which is when GEICO decided to jump into it.

[@jayplatt8798]

My question exactly. We are missing details.

[@natelorimer8567]

Geico has unreasonable arbitration with me. Karma. Screw them

[@phred196]

So if MO wins and receives the award, that will become MO money.

[@TinyHouseHomestead]

ONUD! 🤣👍✌

[@dales855]

Hahah.. well played

[@silentvoiceinthedark5665]

MO better money

[@ajcongdon1772]

Your Comment is way better than my comment.

[@danielseelye6005]

Mo Money, Mo Problems. 😋

[@tonywilliams4066]

“We’re gonna burn dust. Eat my rubber.” “Whatever Rusty.” 😂

[@4-Ever194]

This is why our insurance premiums are higher than ever. Frivolous lawsuits 😢

[@swn69]

This is absolutely ridiculous, and why many people despise lawyers.

[@thewaywardwind548]

There is a VAST difference between what is right and what is legal. Unfortunately, lawyers have little interest in what is right.

[@MrShadowpanther3]

Well, when you complain about your car insurance being expensive, think of this lady, and all the others literally stealing YOUR premiums through fraud. So with this judgement, now Insurance Companies will have to raise rates because they will have to send lawyers to EVERY goofy claim. On another note, if she was only suing the "injury donor", would the award had been that big? Or are they simply going after "deep pockets"?

[@geraldweissburg8618]

The game of the system: to enslave and impoverish the righteous. Wake up, people. The vermin behind this ruling are criminal traitors. Somebody pay them a courtesy call.

[@bryandraughn9830]

Yeah, AND the insurance companies are a bunch of crooks. That doesn't help much.

[@dfgiuy22]

They already factor claims in to premiums, don't be daft. They also include things they have not forseen in their formula or insurance companies as institutions wouldn't be viable. Don't be daft

[@Stalicone]

It’s not “fraud” if she won a judgement. It IS frivolous (in my opinion).

[@barnabusdoyle4930]

This will only make insurance premiums increase as this sets a precedent for an additional type of injury that can now be claimed against the insurance company, and opens the door for a ton of other things to sue the company for as well. This is a horrible ruling and I will wager money they were working together on this money grab against Geiko

[@scottthomas5999]

It will be interesting to see the final results. Thanks for the story. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@SSHitMan]

I just got a "change of policy terms" notice for my Geico auto insurance. It now excludes from coverage "the transmission of, or threat of transmission of, a communicable disease or sickness". 🤣

[@tnpir4002]

I have never laughed so hard at a Steve Lehto video as I did this one. This was MASTERFUL tactful storytelling at its finest.

[@lawrencepfeiffer1960]

Rated PG

[@HandymanKurt]

With all the Tap Dancing, Steve needs new shoes.

[@moodiblues2]

As a retired Judge I agree, we loved arbitration as our trial dockets, at least in populist jurisdictions, are impossibly large. I used to have Arbitrators attached to my court who attended preliminary hearings so that every case had a chance to speak with one and decide if they wanted to arbitrate.

[@yourlogicalnightmare1014]

The duality of pretending the Supreme Court is unbiased and non-partisan contrasts nicely with every single Congressional hearing of a presidential supreme court pick where it's revealed how hyper-partisan the picks are. Similar hilarity ensues recognizing the FBI and IRS are hyper-partisan democrat institutions, protecting the Bidenhole Crime Syndicate from prosecution. And the country is full of legislate from the bench anti-2nd amendment judges The corruption and evil in government is astounding, and you proudly participated in it

[@natelorimer8567]

I have seen Arbitration benifit one, and screw another. Sometimes you better try to Arbitrate.. others take to claims court. Been through both. 😅

[@davidtatum8682]

Your honor, that being said, do you feel that this sets a dangerous precedent? According to this decision, your homeowners insurance would have to cover the same set of circumstances happening in one's home, right?

[@jupitercyclops6521]

​@davidtatum8682 Well, I'm not an attourney, but since you called me your honor, I'll assume your talking to me aw I'm honorable. Imo, insurance companies are rip offs & the way they buy our politicians they are the definition of fasciast, so.....I'd say go for it

[@GeneralSulla]

So you got the skinny on the deal before even showing up in court? Our justice system is broken. Shame! 😂

[@user-eo3bm9sg7n]

That is crazy that insurance companies just have a blanket statement of what is covered followed by a bunch of exclusions.......is there a clause disqualifying brushing your teeth with a jack hammer while using my vehicle as a bathroom in the morning? You would think that the blanket statement would include the phrase if used as intended......😂

[@tomdipasquale9633]

Love your channel Steve!!!

[@maurer3d]

Wouldn't this case be thrown out because the insured misused the vehicle? Also wouldn't Gieco's refusal of arbitration, mean that the arbitration was invalid. Whats next, suing the manufacture of a mattress for child support cause you got pregnant after sex in the bed?

[@1954Gregb]

The company of the mattress is not insurance. I don't necessarily agree with the ruling but just pointing this out.

[@additudeobx]

Makes you wonder, doesn't it....?

[@mercdragons]

​@@1954Gregb So you could sue your home owner insurance.

[@SirBrass]

Makes you wonder since apparently you can sue firearms manufacturers when someone uses their firearms to commit crimes instead of for lawful purposes. So if that can be done, then makes sense you can sue a mattress manufacturer because you got pregnant on one of their mattresses.

[@dixietenbroeck8717]

@@SirBrass *_YOU_** made an excellent analogy, also - BRAVO!*

[@gorgly123]

The "Insured's" policy had more than $5 million dollar policy on his car? Usually the policies are $30,000, $300,000. Never heard of $5 million.

[@KalijahAnderson]

Getting one million on a car is hard enough.

[@elijahwatson8119]

I carry a million. Whatever factors they use to calculate my price means that it was only marginally more expensive than 300,000 (the MINIMUM I'd recommend to anyone these days... Cars are expensive!) but yeah, 5 million+ is insane.

[@corssecurity]

The insurance was one million. If you want more coverage you need a secondary policy.

[@bradhone9168]

Probably umbrella attached?

[@duanesamuelson2256]

Up to 1 million which is why the infectee (I couldn't resist that) put a claim in to geico for 1 million which was denied

[@themotofixery]

So this reminds me if an insurance question. Im a truck driver and I want to know if the trucking companies insurance is obligated to defend me as a driver? Is that any different if the company is self Insured? Doctors have malpractice insurance... is there anything similar for other professions like drivers working for a company or am I basically completely exposed? Could I buy my own insurance for work or would my personal vehicle insurance cover me at work?

[@cutlove100]

I just found your channel and OMG, I love it so far. (((cheers))) to binge watching this week. xoxo Nancy

[@steveturner2763]

The car was a 2014 Hyundai Genesis: "Geico was originally contacted by the plaintiff after contracting HPV virus while Geico was originally contacted by the plaintiff after contracting HPV virus while engaging in unprotected sex in a Geico-insured 2014 Hyundai Genesis. Geico refused, saying that it was not a covered event under its insurance policy. Ultimately, the case went to arbitration and the woman was awarded 5.2 million dollars for damages and suffering. The man who infected the plaintiff did not disclose he had been previously diagnosed with an HPV virus infection, and had proceeded to engage in unprotected sex in the vehicle. The judgment was affirmed. Geico claimed they were not informed of the arbitration proceedings. The appeals court found that Geico did not have the right to “re-litigate” the issues after the award had been affirmed." (Midwest Technology Magazine, Steve Turner author)

[@workingfolk]

As someone who regularly pays insurance premiums to Geico, I'm more than a little pissed that even one penny of my money may have to go to pay this woman for the poor choices she made. $5.2 million is more than a lot of awards that involve motor vehicle deaths. I suspect collusion between "MO," the arbitrator and possibly the "insured." I want to know names.

[@BRINDANI2000]

Not to mention that the two sides could have agreed beforehand to commit insurance fraud. Its ridiculous as if it stands everyone else is going to end up paying for it with higher rates.

[@benmartinez1267]

Funny how it’s “poor choices *she* made” and not “poor choices *he* made” to infect her with a disease

[@Josh-xl6zh]

Definitely screams collusion

[@Mercurio-Morat-Goes-Bughunting]

That's the thing. Once you pay, it's not your money any more. And it's not your call to make. Seriously, if you think the insurance you've purchased is too expensive, find a better deal. Fun question: Does this judgement sufficiently raise the price of your policy above that of competing policies? Also, did it occur to you that this is not necessarily covered by the policy in question? The insurer got stung, not because they were liable, per se, but because their choice of time and place (to petition for intervention) volunteered their liability irrespective of their policy or relationship with either of the parties.

[@jennyi8383]

@@benmartinez1267 Protection during sex is both parties' responsibilities during consensual acts. Buyer beware. He might be a POS, bit I feel zero sympathy for her

[@TheFeist77]

It sounds like a setup for both sides to "steal" from geico

[@lrmackmcbride7498]

The insured is still on the hook for 4.2 million.

[@brentfarvors192]

Geico did it to themselves by attempting to screw people with binding arbitration in lieu of a lawsuit...If they didn't want arbitration, they shouldn't have put it as an option in the contract THEY WROTE!!!

[@jwenting]

@@lrmackmcbride7498 if they're in the scam together, that's irrelevant

[@lrmackmcbride7498]

@@jwenting i am pretty sure him giving her a fatal disease is not worth it.

[@jwenting]

@@lrmackmcbride7498 was talking about the "financial loss" for him. The disease could have been faked, given the money at stake I'm sure a doctor could be found who was more than willing to provide a false diagnosis...

[@spudmanwp]

Update Jan 2023 The Missouri Supreme Court on Tuesday ruled unanimously to overturn a lower court's ruling that favored paying the woman. Instead, the state Supreme Court judges said Maryland-based Geico should have had a chance to weigh in sooner and sent the case back to the lower court for further deliberation.

[@travelcampingblacksmithing786]

Hey don't know if you have done this topic specifically but can you do a video on the right to a speedy trial and what defines speedy vs a not speedy trial? I can't find any specific case law on this when I search for it, only what looks like a guideline on Cornell University Laws website.

[@booterone1]

Sounds like the one party didn’t do her due diligence before entering into a mutual agreement.

[@brentfarvors192]

Same can be said about Geico...

[@AeroGuy07]

$5M because she got the clap. We live in 🤡 🌎.

[@danielseelye6005]

The thing about future medical coverage makes me think it might've been HIV/AIDS.

[@donnavandezande3905]

Actually herpes from the human papilloma virus. No real treatment.

[@mojavedesertsonorandesert9531]

🎯.....😂

[@timothyevans4323]

@@danielseelye6005it was genital warts…

[@Sleepdroidstudios]

How is catching a disease the same as an injury? If you catch a cold from a taxi ride, can you sue the taxi company?

[@klee88029]

Years ago, I was driving along a 2 lane state highway. It was a little after 7am, homeward bound after finishing an 11p-7a home health nursing assignment. Essentially no traffic on the road. The "check engine light" came on and stayed on. So I pulled over to the side of the road with the intention of raising the hood and looking inside the engine compartment. (Not that I possessed any actual auto mechanical skills.) As I started to unbuckle my seat belt and open my driver's side door to get out, my beautiful well trained, red furred, 70 lbs. traveling dog, Scarlett my Starlet, who always went to night shifts with me, and as always was was sitting proudly on the passenger seat, suddenly bolted, jumping over my lap and charged out of the half open door. As I screamed "SCARLETT, NO!!!", in that moment a car appeared, traveling well above the posted 55 mph speed limit from the opposite direction towards me, came barreling along. In less than 10 seconds from when Scarlett escaped my vehicle, she was hit and killed. The man sustained considerable front end body damage, due to his speed and Scarlett's size. After I calmed down enough to do so, we exchanged Drivers information, licenses and insurances. He made a claim on my auto insurance, State Farm, which they denied, as my vehicle didn't cause his property damage. They advised and referred him to make it claim on my Home Owners insurance. Which I also had, with State Farm. So he made some kind of claim on that (Accidental Injury? I don't recall, this was about 20+ years ago). My HO policy Did accept and pay his property damage claim of several thousand dollars for his newer car. Some kind of sedan. State Farm was very compassionate the several times that they had to contact me until it was settled. I am lucky, financially, that his claim didn't have to progress to a civil lawsuit, because, like it or not, as the dog's owner, I was liable for the freak accident. The moral of my story is: "ALWAYS secure your animals with an appropriate leash, harness or container when you put them in a vehicle to travel, no matter how short the distance or how safe and well trained you believe your pet to be."

[@boikatsapiens499]

Ben on the OEDs on the right, avoiding the low flying aircraft.

[@Mox3712]

I was rear-ended by a woman traveling over 70 mph while turning into my driveway 3 years ago. I only received $25k for this and had to pay out to the lawyer and the health insurance company which left me around 11k. I guess this means I can sue the woman for millions because she has rendered me unable to work from the injuries, right?

[@pauldedwards80]

I would say yes. Unless the statute of limitations has expired.

[@colleencook382]

Depends on the wording in the judgement. If there is a clause that states this is full and final compensation you might be SOL. I know in my workers compensation case medical is covered for the rest of my life on my shoulder. I think it would still be worth a consultation with a lawyer to explore your options. Good luck.

[@freddieh5539]

You'd have gotten more money if the other driver gave you an STD.

[@knerduno5942]

Sounds like you had a crappy lawyer.

[@dmitripogosian5084]

3 years maybe too far ago. Where I live you have 2 years to file a civil suit. But you should definitely check.

[@Lovesausage269]

Lol I remember the gecko was trying to use junkyard parts for a new car under factory warranty and Allstate was like sounds good, bring it to a shop we’ll fix it and sue gieco for the money.

[@danieladkins6836]

When Geico started they put out a commercial and said when wanting a quote call everybody else first for comparison then call them. I tried that and called five or six companies then called them they were the highest of all!!!!!!!!!

[@dogishappy0]

Thank you for this in depth breakdown. I knew there needed to be something I wasn't aware of for this to be upheld on procedural grounds.

[@jeromethiel4323]

"Very different skill sets!" I had to pause the video to wait until i could stop laughing. Kudos, my good man, kudos to you! ^-^

[@tacoguy5]

gotta love that COPPA disclaimer after stating you're trying not to get too graphic in your explanation

[@paulvanallen-lononca]

Love the updated video, where you say how you knew that it was for sure going to be over turn.... please explain!!!! Of course you won't!e

[@MerrimanDevonshire]

Steve... you are definitely a lawyer, as your ability to tap dance around the 'interesting aspects' of this story was on full display. 😂

[@patrickcarey5907]

It seems to me that Gieko did not interfere sooner because they didn't believe her claim would ever be entertained in arbitration ? Then when they realized she was awarded a judgement, they crapped their pants and went into damage control mode trying to get out of the payment.

[@jeremydale4548]

Honestly the court SHOULD have Dismissed the claim with prejudice on the sheer ridiculousness of the claim alone.

[@fangletterman-ng2ro]

What if it was YOU, and the "disease," which incurred "future treatment costs,"-- which could only be something incurable such as HIV,-- happened to YOU, causing you to consider a future of high insurance premiums, deductibles and out of pocket copays, which would leave you spending most of your money on that particular healthcare concern for the rest of your life and leaving you in poverty-- esp when he KNEW that he had the disease and failed, both, to take precautions and to inform her-- I definitely DOUBT that you wpuld view her suit as ridiculous, then. HE SHOULD HAVE TOLD HER.

[@theyaden]

@@jeremydale4548 I could see suing the guy that deliberately spread an STD. It being a claim against the car insurance is rather ridiculous and I think Geico goofed up getting involved at all since asking to be included meant there was now a link to say this is on you. After all the guy was driving something but it wasn't his car. ;-)

[@Orc-icide]

"Gieko"

[@mojavedesertsonorandesert9531]

This lady took "You better call Saul Goodman" seriously! 😂😂😂

[@ljmeyerful]

I can just see all the attorneys for car, rental, and travel insurance going crazy with their newest term of service updates!

[@PushingThroughThePain]

So, logically, if she had caught something from him in his house/apartment, his house/rental insurance would have covered that? 🤔 Seems like it could be opening a LOT of nasty people up for a LOT of litigation! 😳

[@johnnyfive1412]

Or if someone catches something on the miles high club then they can sue the airline. Insanity!!!

[@UncleKennysPlace]

Remember the [most] lawyer's mantra: go after the easy money, then go after the big money.

[@user-fu3ly6xj5k]

Mr Lehto, just curious if after the event with this insurance company, will this inspire all insurance company to change all of their "fine print" to exclude this type of claim?

[@lindablackmore5882]

I LOVE to see Geico get theirs. They are such a bogus company! I hope she got every penny.