Advanced Sci-fi Civilisations Too Stupid To Really Exist Ep.18 - The First (and Final) Order

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[@lennysmileyface]

Sidious can hook Vader up with an advanced exoskeleton but the best he can do now is attach a wheelchair to a crane. Truly a mastermind.

[@super_manul1167]

Bacta anyone

[@SHA-3qua]

It was actually a really crappy exoskeleton that hurt to live in at all and the life support system was super susceptible to electric/static shock damage which was the emperors go to move.

[@SHA-3qua]

Dude had to use the force to move his limbs. This was done by palpatine on purpose for shits and giggles and to enhance vaders dark side powers with spite and pain he totally could have given him an advanced one that didn’t suck to use.

[@pancytryna9378]

@@SHA-3qua ye but it was on purpose

[@RedXlV]

@@SHA-3qua And you *know* Vader was pissed off at Palpatine about that, too. Probably thinking to himself "I could make better cybernetics than this in my sleep and only using my toes. Back when I had toes."

[@pumpkinbread21]

"Sidious snatches defeat from the jaws of victory." Favorite line 😂

[@themaninblack9377]

Agreed.

[@dylanmonstrum1538]

This dude is great like that

[@MrPapageorgio]

"Random lesbians."

[@AndrewGivens]

@@dylanmonstrum1538 I mean, he's right in his analysis, but that line itself is hardly an original, it's a stone-cold classic inversion, in widespread use since the Twentieth Century. I just realised I only used 'the' once in that comment. Win.

[@SquallLionhart409]

I will never drop the fact that the Gungans in episode one had functioning shield technology in atmosphere and the Final Order in episode nine do not. The Gungans had superior shields 60 something years earlier. Imagine losing out in tech -to the Gungans-.

[@crazyafrican9955]

Literally half the clone wars had shields, don't forget the hoth shield

[@alphawolf7417]

Hey, don't underestimate the Gungans. Jar-Jar aside, most Gungans were actually pretty acrobatic ass kickers with shields completely immune to blaster fire.

[@SquallLionhart409]

@@alphawolf7417 Gungans seemed entirely xenophobic and isolationist when we met them in Episode 1, aspects which tend to hinder technological progression. Jar Jar is also made a general, implying several things about their society. Given what we know, a galaxy-spanning Empire with FAR more technologically focused minds should be able to better develop better shields, especially if the Emperor's home planet is saved in part by shields that function in atmosphere. If the Emperor has access to miniaturization of the Death Star laser, he should have access to those same shields. This makes it pathetic that the story hinges on this lack of shields, and cause for a re-write.

[@alphawolf7417]

@SquallLionhart409 Oh, I'm not denying any of that.

[@Woopor]

And the entire existence of Droidekas

[@purplehaze2358]

Kylo Ren and Hux were actually supposed to be of equal rank in contrast to the structure of the Galactic Empire in the original trilogy. But Rian Johnson decided to retcon that dichotomy because he thought it was funny.

[@curtiskretzer8898]

I'll watch all of Ruin Johnsinks movies...on commercial🖥

[@jmurray1110]

Actually it was a tricodemy phasma was also in charge they each ran a brack Hux controlled the navi Phasma controlled the army And ren controlled the knight of ren (special forces) All under supreme leader snoke

[@pepperedash4424]

Do you have a source on that?

[@pepperedash4424]

@@jmurray1110 Source? Why he wasn't an admiral instead?

[@Zarastro54]

@@jmurray1110 That doesn’t make any sense, since Phasma was a captain, and a captain is a relatively middle officer rank in an army.

[@rascoehunter3608]

Still can't believe a writer wrote the line "they don't know which way is up and their shields don't work in atmosphere" in a sci-fi space movie.

[@oatlord]

Yeah but to be fair Star Wars is sci fi lite. Sci Fi for the masses.

[@MrlspPrt]

@@oatlord space opera, Lucas himself said it.

[@MrlspPrt]

By the way: to me, the most stupid scene on this trilogy was that at the beginning of The Last Jedi where the Resistance used strategic bombardment... a technique obsolete in modern wars, used during WWII to destroy mass production centers and having a low accuracy rate, so planes were deployed in dozens to destroy a single factory... but yeah, a galactic civilization where 30 years before a kid destroyed a space station shooting to a 2m wide hole need an obsolete strategy...

[@oatlord]

@@MrlspPrt space opera is a genre with a ton of characters and threads. Star Wars is space opera for people who don't like Sci Fi.

[@MrlspPrt]

@@oatlord you may be right, I really don't know, I was just saying Lucas defined his franchise as "space opera".

[@maxcohen9639]

Your interpretation of Papa Palpatine actually taking control of Rey's body at the end would be a far more interesting ending.

[@BigJay039]

Completely agree with that. It would make sense why she let Kylo die. It would make sense why she took the name Skywalker. Unlike Darth JarJar, I doubt JarJar Abrams had that in mind. Way to destroy a property conpletely.

[@mmtigan]

@@BigJay039 it's Darth Darth Binks.

[@jarrodbright5231]

It would also make his entire decision making process throughout the Prequel and Original trilogies make sense - a vampiric Sith Spirit that has been inhabiting apprentice Sith bodies each time they kill their master... of course his main concern would be securing a healthier strong in the force apprentice than Darth Vader, and engineers the environment for a rebellion that would cause some Jedi with a corruptable taste for conflict to come into their power and to his attention so that he can make them his new apprentice and when they eventually kill him take over their body.

[@ShadowOfTheSPQR]

@@jarrodbright5231 If we want to stretch this further, the original Darth Bane book opened the door for essence transfer since the rule of two was conceived .

[@mylex817]

​@@jarrodbright5231brilliant. Having this dark, undying spirit lurking at the edges paints the whole history of the galaxy in a new light.

[@clearspira]

The sad thing about the First Order is that exploring the power vacuum left over from the death of the Emperor and Vader could have been a fascinating story. How did he come to control the remnants of the Empire? How did he corrupt young Kylo? How did he become so powerful? Was he in fact Darth Plagueis? So many questions and so much potential pissed up the wall by the clone retcon. What a waste.

[@RedPillCosby-012]

Comics and novels

[@Sedgewise47]

If ifs and buts Were fruits and nuts It’d be Christmas every day…

[@barrag3463]

Look up the Thrawn Trilogy

[@johnnygyro2295]

In Legends, thanks to Palpatine never intending any successors, the Empire fractured into several warlords/factions with their own agendas. This caused the Galactic Civil War to last close to a decade after Endor. That said, Palpatine coming back via clones happened there too.

[@Logan-cu9di]

@@johnnygyro2295 but it was executed better than this mess

[@daveshn]

Palpatine: "I am now living on in my granddaughter's body." Ra's al Ghul from the DCAU: "Nice."

[@jayburn00]

Ah, due to what happens to Talia in Batman Beyond. Think Ra's al Ghul's plan made much more sense though (though I actually didn't much like that story as the plan had many elements that seemed out of character for Ra's).

[@Ergeniz]

@@jayburn00 Elements such as?

[@louisduarte8763]

"I stand corrected. You don't cheat death. You cower in fear of it." "Silence!" [SLAP!] "And you hit like a girl."

[@jayburn00]

@@Ergeniz The idea of him taking over bruce's body primarily, or his daughter's body for the matter. That is part of it. It is extremely out of character for multiple reasons: he greatly respected Batman/Bruce Wayne, wanted him to wed his daughter and become his heir etc. He admired Bruce Wayne. There was a reason he referred to Batman as "detective" in the comic books and cartoon and it was an acknowledgement of Batman's mental prowess. He was not the kind that would sacrifice his child to save his own skin (would put her in danger yes, but not have her die in his place). The Arkham games did him better in many ways. He wants Batman to kill him and take his place as leader of the league of shadows or whatever his assassin organization was called.

[@boxtank5288]

@@jayburn00 By this point, he was running out of options. Bruce was no longer a worthy heir (due to age ripping him a new one) and he knew he couldn't just CONVINCE him (he has rejected, time and again, the offer of being his heir and would refuse the Immortality), plus the Pit stopped being effective on his ravaged body so he panicked when he realized his days were numbered and NOT because Bruce was gonna kill him. So thus, his Daughter was essentially sacrificed.

[@Indignation211]

One difference between Endor and Exogol is that when Palps goaded the Rebels into attacking the Death Star II he at least deceived the Rebels into believing it wasn't "fully armed and operational" like it was.

[@StarWarsomania]

I love how it's even reversed in Disney Wars. Palps convinced them to come attack a "fully armed and operational" fleet, which actually has no shields, can't fly up, can't successfully fire without hitting their own ships, and gets KO'd by one blast to the big Space Laser gun.

[@lumbagoboi1649]

@@StarWarsomania lol true. The battle of exagol is such a mind-numbingly stupid and ridiculous battle that it seems like it would work better in a parody making fun of the original trilogy.

[@darthkai3621]

It’s a reverse trap!

[@Veridiano02]

Problem with Endor is, we only see the cuddle bears beating the empire, but in reality, it where the rebel comandos that managed to blow up the station protected by the empire best troops and allowed the rebels fleet, doomed to be slowly destroyed by either the Death Star or the overwhealming power of the imperial fleet, to have a shot against the Death Star. I mean, RotJ's battle of Endor may be poorly protrayed, but it was a great demonstration of how the Empire underestimated Admiral Ackbar's genious and capacity to quickly adapt, and the talent both the rebel comandos and it's fighter squadrons had. It was a well made trap went very wrong, specially when both Vader's and Palpatine's attention was driven away by Luke's duel. Exagol, however, it's just a fanfic written by a 14 year old in a single afternoon.

[@KellogsR-ny7ug]

It’s amazing from a filmmaking perspective the fleet functions as a singular structure and they don’t really expand on the boundaries

[@Ometecuhtli]

Somehow the line "Somehow Palpatine survived." made it into film.

[@Aredel]

Poor Oscar Isaac. He looked like he wanted to throw up when delivering that line.

[@ltjjenkins]

And not written by Lucas

[@Sorrelhas]

Somehow the line "Somehow the line 'Somehow Palpatine survived' made it into the film" made it into this comment

[@bigroaststyrone8135]

@@AredelI bet he wished the character stayed dead lmao

[@NWAWskeptic]

It’s like the flip side of “she lost the will to live” Funny how much better the prequels look now.

[@Mr.Silence.]

Kylo's incompetence is even worse considering he's 29-30 getting outsmarted by a 19yr old with no experience with anything lol

[@benedictjajo]

Can you blame him? She's born perfect.

[@atomheart7907]

Mary Rey Sue

[@brentbartley6838]

Let's not short change the First Order's "Military Leadership" that chooses to use its Fleet Killer Dreadnought to ignore the Resistance Fleet in orbit to shoot the planetary base that isn't going anywhere allowing the fleet to escape. NOT deploying a fighter screen until AFTER a lone fighter knocks out most of their anti fighter turrets. NOT deploying a task force to jump ahead of the Resistance fleet limping along in real space or constantly harrassing them with fighters. Star Destroyers in atmo that don't know which way is up!?!? We figured out how to do that on aircraft a century ago. But when the entire Galaxy just surrenders to The First Order AFTER their big superweapon is destroyed....🙄 There's almost no end to the amount of stupid in the sequels.

[@Bl4ckD0g]

@@brentbartley6838 they didn't know what a prank call was. I'm surprised they could even pilot their ships. Guess that's what happens when you conscript children and beat them into submission.

[@megatherium100]

because writing a competent and believable antagonist is much, much more difficult than basically a punching bag for the good guys to beat on.

[@gustavchambert7072]

It's almost as if the first order leadership reflects the intellectual abilities, emotional maturity, leadership and organizational skills of the film creators.....

[@clearspira]

''Up. Their ships do not know which way is up.'' - The Final Order encapsulated into a single sentence.

[@scottgaultney]

Balloons filled with helium know which way is up. Should have given the pilots a helium balloon and told them 'See the direction the balloon is floating? Follow the balloon, stupid.'

[@jayburn00]

A worse design than the star fortress, the star fortress design flaws were just demonstrated more visually.

[@jayburn00]

@@scottgaultney they might have been better off making them zepplins temporarily.

[@bluemountain4181]

@@scottgaultney Or if they wanted to be evil about it they could throw a Stormtrooper overboard. Whichever way they fall is down and so the opposite is up

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@bluemountain4181 , Why start with a Stormtrooper? The most reasonable solution is start with the Admiral...

[@thelieutenant7732]

You know… if Palpatine’s body was non-functional, why didn’t he just build himself an exoskeleton? Robotics and prosthetics are super advanced in Star Wars. In fact, disregard the exoskeleton, why didn’t he build a giant droid army again but this time not purposely sabotage himself? Palpatine is a great villain and all, but it seems that he does everything in his power to cause the most amount of casualties and then lose.

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

He didn't need to. He told Rey that if she'd kill him he'd possess her body, which he did (my opinion). And so Palpatine won in the end.

[@zahylon5993]

The Galaxy has so much tech...he could have unsuspiciouslly requested a Kaminoan well baked clone of himself, not a fast-aging one. And come back as a Young Palps with all the power.

[@casbot71]

@@zahylon5993 There is a lot of retcon beta canon about how cloning Force users results in "eekk… uggh". It's to explain why they didn't just use a Jedi as the base template for the Clone Army. Apparently The Force attaches itself to a particular body and if it's cloned that messes up the Force connection and causes … … _issues._

[@Mephiles343]

That's kinda what king ommin did

[@malachiXX]

Palpatine is ANYTHING but a great villain. He's childish, petty, stupid, singleminded and unoriginal. Look at all of his decisions critically and you'll see. It's almost as if his intelligence is inversely proportional to his force power. The more powerful his connection to the force, the stupider he becomes. BTW, according to the graphic novel Dark Empire (I'm not sure if that is canon anymore), both his body and its age were explained. His connection to the Dark side of the force burns through bodies at an accelerated rate. He has had multiple cloned bodies and he discards them like tissues moving on to the next when one is worn out. That's how he survived Return of the Jedi. But I digress.... A perfectly healthy midddle-aged ambassador (who is a Sith lord...shh!) decides to use political power and trade embargoes to advance his career and plots the destruction of the Senate. Along the way he trains multiple apprentices (B.S. there are only ever 2) and plays them against each other to keep them from following through with the true Sith agenda (a master to possess the power and a student to crave it). He then learns of the discovery of a superior, untrained force user the Jedi have found and decides to court him into a possible "perfect apprentice". As his career advances he keeps in touch with the super Jedi and engages in a few subtle plots to keep everyone distracted and not looking where he is directing huge amounts of influence and power. Apparently the trade embargo was very lucrative as he was able to build up a tremendous amount of ordinace and clones to man it. He then starts a 3-way war so that he can justify the expenditure of funds to bolster the Senate's military while duping the senators and leading the Jedi into battle to thin out their numbers and surround them with pre-programmed assassins. He has spent years courting Anakin and weakening his vision of what a Jedi is. All of this works. He is revealed as a Sith Lord, kills several Jedi Masters, Force-Lightnings his own body in an effort to finally win Anakin over to his side and it works. All of a sudden his I.Q. takes a nose-dive and his ambition and pettiness rises to the surface like scum on boiling milk. He destroys the Jedi but not completely. He revels in his success but fails to be thorough. He created a Sith Lord that could some day surpass him but allows him to be crippled so that he is no longer a threat. Just a threat to normal people. He's one of the few powerful enough to see the future but can't see that his new superweapon is flawed. He employs troops who rely on armor that can't protect them, but does slow them down and make them obvious targets. It also works as a fairly good disguise if you want to blend in with a bunch of not too bright, faceless soldiers. Apparently star destroyers can only field a maximum of 10 Tie Fighters, making it possible for their ships to be swarmed by the rebels in their dozens to hundreds of snub-nose fighters. He takes his rage and frustration at the loss of his superweapon out on the sole survivor. He doesn't learn from the lesson and builds an even bigger superweapon that is also a gigantic target. He risks that target as bait in the hope that it will lure all the rebels to one place. He attempts to kill the one person who might cause his crippled apprentice-slave to switch sides. He loses his body and starts all over again in hiding He grows a "damaged, clone supreme leader" who will run everything while he runs the clone from a place of safety. He regroups and has his New Order build an even bigger superweapon (will he never learn?) that is fueled by a sun? Exactly what do you do with it once it has completely exhausted its fuel supply? Scrap it? He puts his faith in an apprentice that he seduced from the Light Side again. (Will he never learn?) His dark apprentice is actually giving him warnings that he feels the pull of the Light Side. He wants his apprentice to capture and corrupt a new powerful untrained Light Sider that turns out to have an emotional connection with his apprentice. (Where have we seen that before?) He allows the rebels to escape time and time again by employing leaders who are more concerned with "in-fighting" and "rank climbing" than they are in achieving the New Order's Goals. Round and round and round we go..... I think that makes my point.

[@slenderminion2229]

Honestly, this entire sequel trilogy would have been much better had it been an adaptation of the Thrawn Trilogy novels. Thrawn actually knew what he was doing and how to run things since he promotes and rewards self-improvement and cooperation between his minions. He has his own set of problems just like any character, but he is far more competent than any of these clowns.

[@Grivehn]

Galaxy-wide Thrawn faced massive issues. There were still many imperial warlords in the galaxy, neither of whom admitted him to be their rightful leader. He always had limited resources, no massive bases, essentially fighting an underdog battle against the massively grown New Republic, and still almost won. Thats his real genius, and why people love him, Id say. (Of course, for treating his own underlings with respect and non-sacrificable, or for the artsy gimmick, too.) His non-understanding of the Force brought about his end, which is expected from the Chiss. A race which kills or exiles all their Force users straight up. Coupled with relying on the noghri too much; a species he continued lying to, ultimately didnt really need them, but employed as personal bodyguards.

[@demonkingbadger6689]

Thrawn could have beat these dimwits with his flagship alone

[@MkZuO12345]

And still died a stupidest and contrived death ever. Why the fuck wouldn't he help rebuild Honoghr? He lied to get loyalty that not lying would get him (and actually doing it would eliminate any risk of discovery). The Thrawn trilogy is good but nowhere near as good as it's made to be.

[@demonkingbadger6689]

@@MkZuO12345 yeah, it was the one thing i do criticize (well, one of 2, he also put up with the crazy man too long)

[@sirknightly3362]

Tbh, I don't want anyone at current Disney writing a Thrawn movie, I think a Red Harvest movie would be easier for them.

[@godouroboros8047]

You forgot to mention that Rey somehow knows how to swim dispite living basically her whole life on a desert world.

[@anubusx]

She learned the same way Sheldon did.

[@seelcudoom1]

the sequel trilogy is dumb in a lot of ways but thats not one of them, not only is it entirely possible for there to have been bodys of water on the ship she scavenged since ya know, they need water for the troops, plumbing, cooling reactors, ect since the bigger ships are basically flying cities , but the force has been long established to let a like 7 year old fly a starship like a trained pilot, the doggy paddle shouldent be hard

[@spinosaurusstriker]

@@seelcudoom1 there is a difference between a character that is a professional speed racer having luck using a ship that is basically a speed racer with guns and living you whole life in the desert sealing succesfully a wood crate in violent waters who even the people that live there don't want to do navigate.

[@seelcudoom1]

@@spinosaurusstriker dude are you seriously saying a fucking military space ship is easier to pilot for again someone who has not even gone threw puberty then it is for someone to be really good at swimming? like ya there probobly simpler to pilot then our spacecraft but there still basically the equivalent of a military jet, and not at all comparable to a ground based vehicle(not that a child building and winning a race in something infamously difficult to drive is much less ridiculous) also the most basic application of the force is telekinesis, being able ot just push yourself in a direction is kind of a huge cheat when it comes to swimming

[@vetarlittorf1807]

@@anubusx But you can't learn swimming, or any kind of sport, from a book.

[@bigbangrafa8435]

Palpatine wins at the end. His heir has the Falcon, has Luke and Leia's lightsaber mixed up into a new one, and even stole Anakin's surname. How bad you have to be as a writter to allow this to happen?

[@Leopardts]

The movie 'subverts expectation' lmao Just like the end of game of thrones.... :'(

[@Tekrel]

I always thought palpatine won with this ending. He played the long game his bloodline is the only one left to reshape the Jedi. Sure he isn't around to do it personally but not a bad secondary outcome .

[@MinscFromBaldursGate92]

Chris Avellone is a better writer than Rian Johnson.

[@Alknix]

Please... just stop with this bullshit...

[@tach5884]

@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 Jim Theis is a better writer than Rian Johnson.

[@DonFatherTrump]

It was so much more interesting to have Vader being subordinate to that admiral dude in A New Hope. And it was clear that Vader could end any of them. It implied a properly enforced hierarchy with someone bad enough to make even Vader play nice.

[@tereza1959]

this and also the conflict of "technological terror" and "the power of the force" was really interesting to see in the dialogue between Vader and the admiral guy

[@occam7382]

@@tereza1959, you mean Tarkin, right?

[@theboy1625]

@@occam7382I always found that interesting especially when he told Vader to release that dude from his force choke

[@occam7382]

@@theboy1625, oh yeah. My favorite part of that scene was the deleted section where Tagge roasts Tarkin and the Death Star along with name-dropping the Sith. That was always really cool to me.

[@rhymenoceros3303]

The First Orders biggest issue was that Disney’s executives decided to rush them out without properly planning out their story, ideals or structure. They were sadly half baked but could’ve been something amazing.

[@dunnowy123]

I still find the idea of a weirdly state like insurgency fighting a rag tag group of volunteers...despite the existence of a Galactic Republic utterly baffling. Why couldn't it just be Republic vs First Order? Why did they have to be carbon copies of the Empire? It's almost like the MORE resources these studios have, the less imaginative they are, because they safer they want to be.

[@rhymenoceros3303]

@@dunnowy123 Yeah it would've been much better to have a much smaller but more fanatical First Order going up against a larger but more divided New Republic. Would've been a cool role reversal and it seems that was what they were initially going for before Rian decided to make the First Order just into Walmart Empire. It's a darn shame too because the First Order could've something really special but corporate short sightedness really crippled them.

[@dunnowy123]

@@rhymenoceros3303 Agreed. I mean not get overly political or anything, but given the years these movies came out...fanatical insurgents fighting a massive Republic that may be forced to compromise its morals, and the heroes having to juggle that would have been...quite topical and relevant. Lol

[@jake2011rt]

​@@rhymenoceros3303 It would have been way more interesting to make the bad guys a small but fanatical sith cult who looked and acted nothing like the empire. Even Palpatine's group in RoS was basically still the First Order with new duds.

[@rhymenoceros3303]

@@jake2011rt Indeed

[@ultrakaiser8547]

This is Disney’s way of asking George Lucas: “Hey, can I copy your homework?” “Sure, just don’t make it obvious.” *This is their result.*

[@Sedgewise47]

😆

[@vetarlittorf1807]

Disney didn't do that. Kathleen Kennedy and JJ Abrams did. They wanted to pander to the prequel haters and make the sequels feel as much as the originals as possible.

[@cy-one]

@@vetarlittorf1807 Responsibility always ends at the top of the ladder. In this case, any fail regarding SW is Disney's responsibility.

[@vetarlittorf1807]

@@cy-one Except it's Lucasfilm that makes Star Wars for Disney, not the other way around.

[@Сайтамен]

@@vetarlittorf1807 Well, Bob Iger pushed JJ really hard "This shit costed me 4 billions, make me as much fucking money as possible!", so JJ did what he does best - a copypaste nostalgia bait.

[@luckyowl10]

The prequels are masterpieces in writing in comparison with the sequels. The 3 sequel movies were a competition on how to destroy the Star Wars lore more.

[@billyholland5156]

Amazingly, Sidious looted the empire he already ruled to fund the creation of a superweapons program meant to burn the galaxy to the ground in the event of his death (even when he hadn't actually died as it turned out), fund the creation of the first order, and a different group, and a bunch of superweapons that do the exact same thing as each other... ...when he could have just used those resources to support the empire he already ruled...

[@johannesseyfried7933]

Exactly! I already wasn't a big Fan of "Operation Cinder", but thanks to the Sequels, it makes even *LESS* Sense! Why destroy your own Empire if you already had Plans to live forever?! You could have ruled from the Shadows, like you did in the Prequels, Palpi!

[@Janoha17]

Darth Vitiate/Valkorian did it more competently: He had left the Sith Empire as a sinking ship to build a new empire not bound by the doctrines and traditions of the Sith, and his secret weapon was a fully-automated fleet that he co-opted in a similar manner to Thrawn getting the Katana Fleet millennia later, and when his children turned on him, he fled to the subconscious of the Outlander/Alliance Commander.

[@atraxisdarkstar]

The New Republic couldn't even use its wealth to maintain their own fleet, and yet two fully formed Separatist Empires were able to amass huge fleets out in the unexplored backwoods of the galaxy.

[@jeffreycarman2185]

Right, this was not a well-thought-out move by the creators of this movie.

[@theultimategodofgaming3200]

@@johannesseyfried7933 Sadly some people in real life have that same philosophy of "If I'm going down, I'm taking everyone else with me." I believe that Operation Cinder is actually a realistic thing someone like Palpatine would do.

[@AlfredoPuente8]

The sequel triology makes the original pointless: Palpatine is alive. The empire wasn't destroyed. The New Republic was a failure and easily destroyed. Weapons that destroy planets are very easy to made (and destroy) so it doesn't matter if they destroyed the 2nd Death Star. The Jedi Order wasn't rebuild...

[@jackgill6519]

I don’t think people appreciate how damaging to the lore the easy of access to planet killers is, the whole galaxy could be empty after the next couple of wars

[@nendymion]

To be fair, in the EU the new republic was fairly weak and was still fighting remnants of the empire for a long while. Heck during the Thrawn trilogy, the republic was nearly defeated because the Imperial forces actually had a competent leader who knew how to strategize and the only thing that stopped empire from winning was the fact that Thrawn was killed by his second in command. StarKiller base was definitely a thing and so was the return of Palpatine. The silly thing is for as much as Disney said that the EU was no longer cannon, they used a whole slew of plot points from the EU in order to make their trilogy.

[@PTHYTQV]

Dont forget that all old characters ended up as useless losers, and mostly died the most pathetic way possible.

[@vullord666]

Arguably it made the prequels pointless too. Anakin’s entire tragedy from being the chosen one and bringing balance down the drain. Everything Obi Wan and Yoda endured after losing all they held dear to rebuild through Luke, down the drain.

[@vullord666]

@@nendymion The EU at least had a TON of content and it was far easier before disney heavy handily came along to pick and choose your own canon (I mean you still can, but Disney is shoving theirs in everyone’s face much more). Plus from what I heard the story about Palpatine’s return was HATED. Arguably this is more damning. Disney had some ground work done in the EU and could see what made more or less sense or what writing fans hated more or less and then make improvements. This would be liked being able to see into a possible future timeline, having the chance to improve things, but deciding to do the exact same thing but watered down.

[@DarthLego46]

Honestly, having the Final Order Fleet and Sith Troopers be products of Sith alchemy/magic is way cooler than the official explanation.

[@AlfredoPuente8]

My favourite part about the First Order is that in episode IX they are just gone, they took over the Galaxy in a week but by the end of the movie they are depicted as if they were defeated without losing a single ship.

[@aralornwolf3140]

Did I tell you the story about the Republic the Vast?

[@MrChickennugget360]

Its just lazy story writing. Disney wanted the Empire back so they threw together the First Order which just turns out to be a knock off of the original which was also better.

[@muskatDR]

Its equally dumb how they gain control over the galaxy or anything inbetween 7 and 8. Apart from blowing up a system (which grants you control over nothing) they accomplished nothing, had their biggest strength destroyed at the end of FA and at the start of TLJ they suddenly rule everything. It dosent make sense

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@muskatDR , Episodes VII, VIII, and IX were trying to recreate Episodes IV, V, and VI where the Empire is at war with a Rebellion... at a time the Rebellion is in control of the Galaxy, so they had to shoehorn Episodes I, II, and III in the movies to make sure their plot worked.

[@calexander7495]

@@muskatDR The change in the balance of power from 7 to 8 is perhaps the dumbest progressions in fiction. In 7 they destroyed the capital and lost the weapon that did it. As you said, they gained nothing. Even the intimidation factor of planet killing would be lost because Starkiller Base was destroyed. It makes absolutely no sense they were in a position of dominance in 8, they just painted the galaxy's biggest bullseye on their backs. Literally every civilization in the galaxy with a star fleet should have been hunting them to extinction.

[@noneofyourbusiness3288]

I have to say: what is it with villains always mistreating their own men? A vast majority of villains in scifi and fantasy seem to mistreat their men severely, to the point of it being counter-productive. Sure there is a moral in that and story telling often convey some kind of message, but honestly I just want some villains with good work place culture for once... (lets be real the best villains are those that have a point, not those that are cartoonishly evil for no reason)

[@shadow-squid4872]

Exactly. Thankfully we at least have both Vader and Thrawn that actually gave credit where credit was due, and didn’t merely reward people with continuing to live for having a job well done, Vader only killed officers that were incompetent, selfish and/or corrupt

[@Vigriff]

I honestly don't like that as well, mainly because that's encouraging them to either defect to the heroes side or just want to leave the conflict all together.

[@mechanomics2649]

Because if they don't, how will you know they're the bad guys?

[@J-manli]

It is the easiest way (just after kicking a puppy/ kitten) to showcase how "evil" they are, and the easiest way to create a path for the heroes to beat them.

[@TheLichruler]

When you have a villain in a movie/tv show that treats their own men well, the viewer ends up questioning if the villain is actually the villain, and Hollywood moguls don't like their viewers actually thinking. They want the viewers to just gobble up anything they spew out. Unfortunately people aren't as dumb as they wish (despite what the media claims), and movies with villains like the first/final order get rightly criticized as stupid

[@DannyBeans]

One tiny quibble: them considering an exiled Jedi an existential threat could mean they learned from the Empire's mistakes. Without Obi-Wan and Yoda's involvement, things might have gone differently the first time around. That's giving the First Order (and Abrams) an awful lot of credit, though.

[@rustyshackleford5288]

Kinda sad that the First Order learned from the mistakes of their predecessor, yet Palpatine couldn't learn from his own after decades of self-reflection, and now has ultimately caused the total defeat of 2 galactic militaries who all possessed planet destroying weapons.

[@Mkhan-cw9rx]

You know this actually makes palpatine even more incompetent cause one of the major reasons the empire fell was cause they thought the emperor was dead , meaning if he came back earlier the empire would still be here as ppl would think he is immortal thus making the rebels lose heart .

[@themoreyouknow6663]

true

[@johntorreto4485]

That Rey Possession Theory is probably the most Interesting thing about this Trilogy........ And It was pointed out to the most powerful Entertainment Empire by a single KZbinr

[@MrlspPrt]

The ending of this video got from funny to serious on a few lines of dialogue.

[@luclin92]

Yeah I am kinda surprised that I never thought about that. But yeah this has the potential for a interesting developments if they ever get bored

[@Rose_Bride]

Your ability to _not ONLY_ slog through the second and third films, but to ACTUALLY be able to _comprehend the plot_ is MOST IMPRESSIVE. I'm serious. I couldn't even _finish_ the second film, and found myself daydreaming through most of the third. The fact that you were able to make sense of this enough to construct a 30 minute _video_ breaking down the plot is just... _wow._

[@autarchprinceps]

While all of this is completely true and sad, the worst part about the sequels is that they weirdly just mirror the original trilogy, like a reboot, but without even a reason for that. Just episode 7 features the following episode 4 elements I can remember, probably more: Desert shithole planet with unaware force user randomly comming across droid with plans searched for by the villians, taking the Millenium Falcon to get the plans to the good guys, who are a grass root rebellion, but finding themselves caught on an enemy vessel on the way, but escaping again, reaching the good guys base and planing with them an attack on the planet destroying super weapon, that just took out planet(-s) with major but unknown good guys allies, with shitty fighters, which works because it has a convenient one hit self destruct point. The difference is, the points don't actually connect logically, since they are slightly different. For example, the droid didn't have plans for the actual super weapon, so they had no reason to know or even assume it existed or had that weak point, etc. So naturally that gap has to be filled with stupidity, illogical paths and magguffin devices of galactic coincidence, like the minor market event only repeating in the exact 38 years or whatever inteval that was between Luke randomly visiting and Rey's party randomly doing the same for no apparent reason. Lucky they weren't a day too late, ey. And episode 7 was just an example. From the litteral AT-ATs and their slightly bigger brothers marching on a base across a white salt field, instead of a white snow field, the force user training with an old master on a random planet, while other stuff happens, Palpatine pulling his strike me down and you will fall bullshit routine once the force user has been brought to him, etc. etc. All the major plot points are repeated and in the same relative movies, and often order, but then connected by bullshit instead of an actual story. The only reason I can think of, is either trying to stir nostalgia, or because someone wanted to make them into a reboot, but that idea was scraped after half of the movies were already planned out, and nobody bothered to change them to reflect that.

[@vonVile]

Episode 8 is Episode 5 told in reverse order. The First Order chasing the Rebels is a copy of the Empire chasing the Millennium Falcon, casino planet is Bespin, and the salt planet at the end is Hoth.

[@louisduarte8763]

I would have preferred a flip on the dynamic of the OT: The Rebels have evolved into the New Republic and fight to solidify their power as the legitimate galactic government, while stamping down on Imperial holdouts and organized crime, and Luke rebuilds the Jedi Order.

[@Fenris77]

Indeed. The one major difference is of course the quality, the original trilogy as well as prequels were good and well thought out unloike this disaster!

[@Fenris77]

@@louisduarte8763 Indeed as it was in the Expanded Universe.

[@jarrodbright5231]

I think you give the people who "planned" out the sequels far too much credit. There was no plan... or at least there definitely wasn't for the second movie and any plan from the first was thrown out after that abomination. No, it's more like they made it up as they went along and just stole ideas from other movies but made them worse. Big cannons that blow up the bad ship? See Independance Day. Hyperspace tracking then a long sublight chase? See Battlestar Galactica. Saving the day with a self destruct? See Star Trek Wrath of Khan. The Original Trilogy was just one of many sources where they blatantly stole ideas, then made them far worse. I don't think there was an original idea in the whole series

[@MagicalMaster]

Let's be fair, Dark Helmet could actually scare some people. He was taken as a serious threat and you believed he could be one in the setting.

[@MrlspPrt]

You got it worng, Disney's trilogy is a parody of Spaceballs.

[@MagicalMaster]

@@MrlspPrt I could believe that.

[@gmajor1273]

Lord Helmet was a way better bad-ass than anyone in Disney Star Wars.

[@gmajor1273]

@@MrlspPrt Good one dude.

[@matthewbrown2500]

@@MrlspPrt Wow, a parody of a parody, Disney's been playing three-dimensional chess this whole time

[@gstellar96]

As someone whos never seen these movies the fact they executed a calvary charge in a SPACE BATTLE absolutely killed me

[@CephaloG0D]

"We need to chase that ship until it runs out of fuel... So it will lose speed... in the vacuum of space." **Drinks Margarita from the impression in his own skull**

[@pikadragon2783]

I mean... technically it would lose its way to speed up and by that relative speed to the other ships. But ships in Star Wars work with WWII water ship physics to begin with.... somehow.

[@musthaf9]

well, technically, it will lose acceleration. But since the chasing ship is still blasting its engine, accelerating toward the target ship, then the target ship will appear to slow down relatively. in The Expanse, this works because the camera is following the accelerating ship, so any ship whose engine was shot down would appear to lag behind

[@jaieregilmore971]

Finally somebody else mentions that the Jedis voices felt like bullshit by Sidious with the fact it better with actual force ghosts instead of voices that can be fake by Sidious.

[@Leopardts]

Kill me and I shall become stronger... Wait you're actually going to kill me? I didn't even get to bring out my next big super weapon, I didn't actually expect to win wtf - The emperor... probably

[@ProjectFlashlight612]

That paragraph made no sense

[@corruptangel6793]

Anakin's spirit: "bring balance to the Force, as I did." 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️

[@Doomted90]

I love that you punctuate this with Spaceballs clips, Yogurt warned us this would happen. Now that Disney has Star Wars we FINALLY get to see "Star Wars! The Quest for More Money!"

[@billyholland5156]

Also, the holdo maneuver actually obsoletes all of SW warfare in all of history, because nothing seems to prevent it from being performed by literally anyone who has ever had a functioning hyperdrive, past or present.

[@JamesTobiasStewart]

Yep, it appears to be impossible to defend against and thus renders all other military technology completely moot.

[@Lorekeeper72]

The only defense is that hyperdrives are supposed to be pretty expensive for ships that size but given it took one ship to wreck and entire fleet including a Mega-class ship, thats not much of a defense at all

[@naisagathefirstdestronmand8559]

@@Lorekeeper72 I do wonder something. The Immobilizer 418 cruiser from Legends was made canon by rebels. In Legends it not only pulls ships from entering hyperspace, but also prevents them from entering it in the first place. We do see it pull people out of hyperspace in a canon, so I'm curious if the preventing part is also true, and if so, could that be used to stop hyperspace ramming.

[@Lorekeeper72]

@@naisagathefirstdestronmand8559 Huh, that would probably work. Come to think of it, any Interdictor would work to block that manuever if it was positioned right and, while not exactly common, there were more than a few of those flying around in Legends.

[@billyholland5156]

@@naisagathefirstdestronmand8559 ...that would even be true, if it wasn't for the stunt Han pulled in the force awakens with disabling safties to jump within a planetary gravity wall for the mission on star killer base.

[@Kamina.D.Fierce]

Say what you will about the Empire. At least it made sense in how it rose, how it stayed in power, and why it fell. Meanwhile, nothing about the sequels' politics (or pretty much ANYTHING) made any sense or even the bare minimum of consistency.

[@dragonchr15]

that was why I disliked The Force Awakens as well.... I can forgive not having Luke in it, but at least give us some world building and lore as to what has happened since the destruction of the last Death Star...

[@choreomaniac]

The prequels had too much politics (but they made sense): Trade Negotiations, votes of no confidence, etc. and poop jokes? Is it for kids or not, Lucas? The sequels had too little politics (that made no sense): Why doesn’t the New Republic take the First Order threat seriously? Why doesn’t it support the Resistance more? What are the relative sizes and strengths of the two sides? The Ot was just right: Evil Galactic Empire fighting war against Rebels. Simple.

[@jose13neo]

@@choreomaniac Honestly very easy way to fix the First Order and new republic problem is just make the leader of the first order also be the chancellor(and drop Snoke all together please), but I guess that would be too similar to the prequels and they tried to distance themselves from that

[@CKVanilla]

I blame JJ Abrams and his hatred for the prequels, people dont WANT world building, they want non stop action and OT references.

[@miosignore7137]

@@CKVanilla Abrams apparently hates ROTJ too and frankly, I dare say he may not be the biggest fan of TESB, as TFA feels like a sequel to the first half of ANH.

[@jonathankozenko]

In Dark Forces 1, when Kyle blows up the ship containing Dark Trooper tech, Vader has an “Aw man that sucks” moment. I used to think he was under-reacting, but this reaction is practically Old Yeller levels of misery compared to everyone’s reaction in the First Order to losing their planet sized superweapon (with likely held tens of millions of soldiers as well)

[@DS-tv2fi]

Only tens of millions? That could easily have been hundreds.

[@jonathankozenko]

@@DS-tv2fi Honestly that was a conservative estimate, based on how a lot of people claim that the Death Star held only 200K people. But you are right, it was probably something like 100M~1B altogether. Especially if they had a fleet nearby as the explosion would've been as powerful as the star itself (since it absorbed it but didn't fire, so that blast would be absolutely massive)

[@marley7868]

plus it's vader the dark trooper project was alittle money sink in imperial terms and the fleet was still unsurmountable 25,000 star destroyers woulda been nice but yeah the only thing the first order cared about with there star killer loss was petty insults over the commander who technically wasn't in charge

[@jonathankozenko]

@@marley7868 Exactly. And sorry I missed your comment until now. I recall a Robot Chicken skit where it showed the bridge of a Star Destroyer that survived the big battle in ROTJ, where one kept screaming/lamenting: "Agh!! We're destroyed! We have no hope left - the Rebels have won!!" and the other trying to interject things like: "Um.. but we still have thousands of cruisers -- our armada is still like a hundred times the size of theirs!!"

[@thechangeling3851]

Honestly, the thing that frustrates me the most about the "First Order" is how it makes no sense militarily, and is by FAR a downgrade in technology and versatility in comparison to the group whom they apparently attempted to re-create/carried assets over from. As a hidden remnant, you would actually expect most of their technology to be holdvers from the empire (similar to how post-soviet states carry most of their weapon inventories over) all the while facilities produced upgraded variants of the original design concepts, improved in ways from their holdover.) even this force would be considerably deadly as a majority of the galaxy seemed to demilitarize after the galactic civil war, as sheer numbers and indoctrinated recruits could easily establish themselves as the "status quo" within a movie or two. the weird thing about the disney cannon is they can't decide logistically how strong the first order is...They want them to be a remnant of the empire/terror cell who could go unnoticed for years...yet at the time have them be in material just as strong as the empire in shear resources (or in some cases stronger), have them possess cutting edge gear in great numbers, and otherwise have all of the above really be written off without question. Yet, despite this the force as a whole comes off as as tactically and materially inept in comparison to the empire, especially in "naval" engagements. Sure, they have new star destroyers that are neat (and I'm not going to count the literally copied pasted imperial class ones in the rise of the skywalker...which make no sense in themselves having deathstar tech without themselves being pretty big...) they have a massive grand cruiser (which there is a grand total of one), and a dreadnought (which seems both terribly designed and extremely limited...but besides this, the first order fleet at a glance has no variety in cruisers, and intermediate star destroyers. the empire had multiple classes, and while they did focus on the might of the imperial class, they had other ships to fill a variety of roles. INCLUDING the recently introduced tie carrier crafts which allow a small squad of Ties to be deployed relatively unnoticed without a massive imperial fleet dropping in. This also comes to affect their fighter variety more drastically...the stand out being a absolute lack of a bomber or dedicated interceptor craft, as well as newly introduced support vessels that can tag alongside and support ties in the field. Instead we are introduced to a slightly more uparmored TIE that FINALLY has integrated life support systems and a hyperdrive. These should have just been a given across all new imperial craft with the need to preserve vetran pilots with the diminished resources...but instead this has come to reflect the entirety of the first order fighter force, like wtf. I won't get into the infantry, but I will say this...The empire while rather standardized, and extremely uniform in comparison to the republic army that proceeded it still had the minimal variety to adapt and change to handle a variety of situations presented in the field. Some of the designs were clunky (like the tie bomber), but they filled a role if it was needed by the empire If just throwing a star destroyer or bunch of TIE's didn't work, or couldn't perform a needed task as effectively as a dedicated craft. This honestly comes to bite them in the butt on several occasions that would have easily been handled by their imperial predecessors. Basically, there is so much about the first order which basically should make them come off as "inept", "inflexible", and ultimately "militarily unsound" in comparison to their predecessors (even post endor predecessors), and ultimately unless you turn off your brain and open up a TON of plot holes involving the nature of the first order, their technology, and martial power of the first order...in a galaxy that should have noticed in many ways...its insulting...like the sequel trilogy. (hell you could take the same general narrative, changed and expanded things in some ways and the first order would come off as a FAR more terrifying threat)

[@renownarkroyal3626]

I have to agree with you on that one. Aside from minor nitpicks (the first order did in fact have a dedicated bomber in the comics) it wad pretty solid. The whole thing with imperial millitary technology also had a lot of potential in the film to work. Concepts for upgraded Star Destroyers would have been a great exploration, hell the Resurgent could be a completely new design that they have to blow up a factory for or something. It would also be nice to see cold, calculating and scary villains instead of the clusterfuck we got. The First Order had so much potential.

[@aralornwolf3140]

The reason the First/Final Order and the Resistance are tactically incompetent... is... the writing forced them to be incompetent otherwise the plot of the movies would fail. TFA should have failed 10 minutes in when Kylo Ren launches transports/fighters to chase after the fighter that Finn and Poe stole. As those two crashed, unless they got really lucky and crashed into a settlement (which should have killed them due to the gravitational potential energy being converted into kinetic energy), the First Order troops would be able to land with in shooting distance of the tie minutes later... while the deployed ties kept watch on the heroes... But, no. The First Order didn't have ties/troops available nor did they have the scanning tech required to project where the heroes were going to crash. Which allowed the heroes to walk away from the crash site... and stumble into a settlement... only be spotted by... 2 solders who called in for air strikes. At least in A New Hope, the reason R2-D2 and C-3P0 were able to land unmolested was... the scan techs saying that no one was in the pods, so don't destroy it. So they had a full Tattooine day to get away from the pod. When the Empire searched for the pod, they new where it landed... and they sent entire companies of Stormtroopers to scour the settlements near the pod. "unless you turn off your brain and open up a TON of plot holes involving the nature of the first order, their technology, and martial power of the first order...in a galaxy that should have noticed in many ways...its insulting...like the sequel trilogy." Yep... according to wookieepedia, the Xyston-class ships were made by Kuat-Entralla Engineering. There was no way a competent government would look at such construction orders and think nothing was amiss. Especially since they incorporated "Death Star Tech" which was designed to destroy planets. Preventing the proliferation of that tech will be extremely high on the list of acceptable reasons for the Republic military/law enforcement to "shoot first, arrest later". Starkiller base has the same problem... there was no way that Starkiller Base could have been made in secret. The extremely massive industrial capacity required would have been found relatively easily... since trillions of ton of ore, and millions of workers need to come from somewhere. At the same time as building Starkiller Base, the First Order would require a fleet to protect it. Where did all the people come from? Where did the learn how to build ships? Where is the food required to keep them alive? Where did the people who are producing the food come from? Where are the millions of people who are there to service the people building the ships/starkiller base, and all the food the workers are eating? The ST was doomed from the start... it was a rush job with zero planning. Sure, they had plans, but those plans were ditched to give the directors of each movie complete creative freedom... anyone who thought TFA was good, or that the other movies could redeem it, clearly had their brains turned off.

[@thechangeling3851]

@@aralornwolf3140 exactly...the worst part though is that as someone who LOVES the expanded universe, and has knowledge of what's the "general" theme, as well as a "relatively" creative mind...the sequel trilogy could have been REALLY good, and passable with a few alterations to the plot that Don't exactly change the spirit much, but make the first order and things much more coherent and a solid threat throughout the sequel trilogy. I might detail it in a soft rewrite (keep some of the "major" plot points and structure, but have them make much more sense) once I get home...atleast the ideas that make the first order better.

[@thechangeling3851]

@@aralornwolf3140 Okay so here is my idea on how to handle the first order if I re-wrote the sequel trilogy while trying to keep most of the plot themes and beats, but expanding further...I worry this might turn into a essay... (Before sequel trilogy) The first order prior to the first film is indeed a "contingency" for Palpatine in the event the empire was starting to collapse (what it was a contingency for is revealed later). He himself would monitor/influence it from a chosen world (im thinking malachor V, though other options are indeed possible) but, as a whole the group is more mobile, and guerilla in operations taking great actions to cover up their existence/real force capability from the republic prior to the sequel trilogy (a job much easier with imperial supervisors/loyalists within) and palpatines efforts are to keep his location as hidden as possible for his grand plan/return. Palpatine also understands that time is a factor (in more ways then one...) and keeps the first order relatively obscure (mostly attempting to make them come off as "remnant" attacks which are common...but are on the slow decline, enough that the new republic begins to disarm itself. the first/eternal order are as a whole split into two main fighting groups: majority composed of imperial remnants which have been gathered up/absorbed into the first order after the fall of the empire (whom are commanded to travel to outer-rim worlds, as well as those in what would be "chiss" space) there the children of imperial loyalists (which receive preferential treatment as to appeal to imperial aristocracy) and veteran officers from the galactic Civil War are training conscripts (whom they recruit through means similar to real insurgent groups IRL), gather materials, and produce/take enough to keep the forces mostly out of sight...aside from raids to procure slaves on specific sites (where Palpatine senses force sensitives) All the while the far smaller, but MUCH more advanced special operation-force using equipment designed in the years since (using desighn groups whom are likely making FAR less after the empire had fallen) and produced on worlds outside of republic oversight using slave labor, and supplies harvested by stockpiles the emporor hidden prior in case...its not enough to build a "grand fleet" but it is enough to produce a handful of these new destroyers with full compliment of more advanced troops than a majority of the first order. As well as a grand carrier to act as a mobile resupply point/shipyard (its implied that the peices were built when the empire was at its peak, but apart would appear as other projects or components before being "lost" conveniently close to the uncharted regions (or the space outside malachor V) and assembled on this untouched relatively barren and hostile world. These special forces squads, as well as a number of others would be indoctrinated from a young age using powerful darkside force powers to basically repress their memories and instill with them loyalty to the empire and comrades in arms (its implied as the movies actually start this starts becoming mandatory for even the more "conscripted" remnants as time goes on. However...palpatine would need "enforcers" to act as the face of his new order (Basically new vaders), and took advantage of a great opprotunity to do that...as well as dispose of the only people whom could potentially find him...luke and the new jedi order who could "sense" something was on the rise. To do this he would take on a much more "pathetic" form that was strong in the force, but came off as caring and compassionate...using a majority of his power to mask the darkside on him allowing him to enter the academy as a "wise caretaker/grounds keeper" but secretly also teach and tempt some of the more...impressionable students toward the darkside. This process is slow, and bears not as many "fruit" as hoped (though ots also primarily due to focusing on some of the most "exceptional" students) ...but the end result is a number of jedi students (including a VERY impressionable Ben Solo whom finds the man's knowledge of history, especially the grandfather that Luke refuses to talk about much (mainly either because its things he did not know, or was about vader)) to basically come to see the republic as a whole as what it is...rather incompetent, and uncaring to the outer world (where a majority of these young padawans are coming from) and implants in their head the notion that the jedi are mere servants of the republic, and if they wanted to make the galaxy better...it would only be done by force, and will. All of this culminates in a night in which Ben solo (who lacks a real parental figure...and whom Luke struggles with trying to be one alongside his role as jedi master to a shocking number of new padawans) is shown a vision of things to come (the reason why Palpatine is doing all of this...no spoilers...) which terrifies him and makes him worried that the jedi will not be enough to stop whats comming...that they will all die unless the galaxy as a whole begins to arm up and prepare...all the while Luke is shown a vision of Kylo becoming the new "emporor" of a new empire...he worries that Kylo will fall to the darkside (as he senses its within the emotional young teen kylo) and goes to speak with him, late at night finding kylo in a almost panicked state from his visions. Kylo tries his hardest to explain, to warn Luke and while Luke tries to desclate the situation, thinking kylo is having a panic attack though not believing kylo (as a threat as he is describing would "surely" be noticed in the force)...kylo misreading his actions and words and using a abillity to reach out to read lukes emotions...senses worry, but ultimately disbelief. Kylo then lashes out, and a battle between the two ensues (one in which its clear Luke doesn't want to fight taking defensive dueling motions, and is attempting to reach out to kylo...only for Palpatine reaching out through his double "snoke" to put efforts into motion, he uses the force to try to crush Luke in the rubble of the deep, old temple ruins outside the academy, and rescues kylo from it...while this is happening, something strange occurs on the planet...as if the force itself was like a cloudy storm of static, painful headaches, passing out, and in some cases psychosis (especially in non-force users) chaos erupts as violence and confusion cover the academy, fires burning. snoke coming off as a "good samaritan" saves those whom follow him...right as they leave the site...they watch as all the life around the academy dies, not in a bright flash...but in a whimper as the anomaly in the force causes all the life that contain it to be snuffed out in a instant. (I will reveal how/what it is in the coming posts) the "lone survivors" under snoke are led to the remnants, where they realize not only is snoke far more powerful...but seeks to make the galaxy safe from the evils that come for it, and with force they will bring a new "first order", and each of them will bring this stability and order as heads of the "finest" soldier's in the galaxy. Dubbing them as a whole "the knights of ren" he continues their training as he prepares them for things to come...a great war, one which they would need to hurry and not only grow stronger, but "unite" the galaxy as one against it...and overthrow the corrupt "republic" in the process. They are but students, but snoke promises that one day soon...they will become masters of a new "imperial knights" The death of everyone in the academy sends out ripples in the galaxy...few actually care as many have come to see the jedi as just a "absent order", but the result hits han and Leia hard causing them to split...both believing their son is dead. Luke survives this "event" by being in the deep temple (shielded away from the effects of what had occured) and believing he failed not only as a uncle, but as a teacher to all his students hit him hard...he is not broken, and even reaches out to Leia and han, but they become estranged as a result of this event. Luke tells only the two, leaving each half the coordinates to the world he is traveling t, a "archive wold" where some of the ancient jedi texts are hidden, feeling its his duty to learn not only what occured at his temple, but also potentially what kylo was warning him about...however, reaching out on this world connected so deeply with the force...he senses a great darkside presence in the galaxy, and isolates himself...attempting to try his hardest in such a place to reach out and "define" where exactly this dark force is gathering. Cut 5-6 years after that point...and its time for the movies to start...might actually make the next post if this idea sounds intriguing enough.

[@superfamilyallosauridae6505]

The X-wing was literally an imperial/republic design the rebels stole and started producing themselves that the republic (officially, but unofficially it was empire by this point) then abandonded. If anything, it should be another clean-sheet X-wing the first order is using. Something along those lines. they were trying to make that the new fighter all the way back then!

[@NinjaTyler]

Small thing, Kylo hitting his wound was a sith thing, as pain fuels the darkside so he was flooding himself with adrenaline and empowering himself through pain in the darkside.

[@craigmoen1430]

Yep. In a game, it would look something like this: -1hp +10force -1hp +10force -1hp +10force etc.

[@insupportofjunhado]

@@craigmoen1430 Pain may fuel the dark side but blood fuels the body. You'll end up in a dragon ball situation where you've got all this ki left but a body too borken to use it, only this time there's no Goku to send all your excess energy to.

[@mariatereza9721]

I think the new trilogy missed a great opportunity to use the rivality between Kylo Ren and General Hux as a metaphor to the conflict between "The Force" and "Technological Terror", Kylo Ren trying to solve everything using the dark side of the force and refusing to follow authority, and Hux being skeptical about the force and always relying on machines and devices to do what he wants. And both charactets trying to constantly overthrow each other using different means. I think this would be cool.

[@occam7382]

This could work very well... just replace Kylo and Hux with Darth Talon and Gilad Pellaeon, replace Snoke with Grand Admiral Thrawn, and we could have some really good stuff here.

[@nunouno001]

That moment you realize a random video on KZbin did a better job at explaining the First Order than three entire movies.

[@Don-ds3dy]

Even starwars lore channels have that issue. To guys who watched read and played every bit of starwars media, the "first" order quite literally just popped up out of nowhere and Disney practically just erased alot of the post war lore.

[@blakksabb]

When you realize some peeps watch youtube a lot more than the StarWars they yap about 😆😆😆👎👎

[@Don-ds3dy]

@@blakksabb you're correct 😓, I haven't read the books in a decade.

[@Petraxes]

3 movies, all together around six hours. Twelve of 30 minute videos on youtube, 6 hours. And there are more than 12 star wars videos on youtube. Therefore, it's only logical that they have watched more hours of youtube than movies

[@blakksabb]

@@Petraxes Thats crazy lol. I watch a few SW vids that pop up on my feed, but its totally geekout stuff. I cant imagine literally putting all that time into watching this sludge factory content lol. I did put a shitload of hours into making 7 of the films LONGER by cut editting a bunch of deleted scenes into them 😆👍

[@Arbyfig]

You did forget to mention a few things about starkiller base, 1) it requires a sun to function, and 'sucks' the sun into it to fire and 2) it has no hyperdrive, so after it fires, it no longer has a power source, and literally cannot go anywhere, I mean the argument can be made that it is flung out of orbit as the sun is destroyed to move, well congrats, now the base is on a hyperbolic trajectory that will take millions of years to reach a new sun.

[@corruptangel6793]

Damn, I thought it at least could move.

[@Sorain1]

See, I assume it can fire more than once. But then again, this is *these* writers... The immobility would be theoretically solved by galactic range (no need to move into firing position) and the fact nothing short of a superlaser or losing a ground battle would take it out. In theory.

[@SeviathTheHumanDrago]

In star wars I think the sun's "recharge" or they started off in a solar system with multiple sun's lol. Because they do mention that they were going to fire Starkiller base a second time at the resistance home system because they tracked their spy when the spy came to see the base. And we see that it is draining a sun in the final moments before Kyle stabs Han, hence the reason the resistance had to get there super fast, it was going to fire again.

[@pitiflauticus]

@@Sorain1 having galactic range is still a problem, assuming that the laser travels at the speed of light. The targets may still be months or years away. In a universe with almost instant teleportation, a weapon that takes weeks or longer to hit its targets is basically useless

[@ranchdressin-d3b]

WEll the whole point of starkiller base was to remove the new republic planets from existence. So they dont really need another one for some time after they did that.

[@chiip90]

I couldn't help but laugh when the new storm troopers were described as having extra training on "counter insurgency" when they are the insurgents.

[@suitandtieguy]

"The First Order are just Spaceballs" was my first thought when seeing these awful Disney SW movies and I'm delighted to see a good content guy also see this.

[@marley7868]

I don't know dark helmet is like a better boss and his domineering is well I wouldn't wanna step on his toes

[@suitandtieguy]

@@marley7868 "Spaceballs were a better-managed operation than The First Order" was not a take i was expecting but will completely accept.

[@marley7868]

@@suitandtieguy I mean dark helmet makes it clear why he punishes 1 guy only punishes the one guy and makes his entire bridge crew do there best and all it took was donning a ring and firing his laser into the poor fucks crotch simple efficient and you know exactly why he got it oh and after a fuck up he made he told his crew to take a five minute break

[@ghostranger5890]

Honestly, it actually would have been really cool if the fleet on Exogal were destroyed ships weaved back together through Darkside force powers, staffed by the dead restored to life through Sith Alchemy.

Ah, Darth Sion but as a spaceship.

[@ghostranger5890]

@ Except bigger. Cause all the idiots at Disney seem to know how to do is make things bigger, not better. Except the Resurgent-class SD. Honestly really love the look.

[@carsonm7292]

That would be a vaguely believable answer to at least SOME of the logistical mess of questions that is...everything to do about Exogal.

[@thatHARVguy]

@@ghostranger5890 Bigger not better, is how JJ handled the Star Trek reboot. Seems he increased the size of his Mystery Box™ to hold even more disappointment and bad writing.

[@Goldenkitten1]

That would have been a very KotOR answer to things. And while I would have been fine with it I do understand why they would never do that. Since the movies are watched by more people whose SW knowledge extends to "I am your father" trying to explain complicated Legends lore (that isn't even canon in the Disneyverse) for them in a single movie would likely have been an even bigger mess than Skywalker already was.

[@mommalion7028]

'Hux has been reduced to a battered wife.' This is lol but also sad because he's been canonically abused by his dad and the other first order officers since he was very young. The comic has a lot of little hux crying as he's bullied. So it's more of a horizontal promotion for him, or same shit different day

[@BartRos1980]

I feel that the new Star Wars movies are proof me live on a time in which cinematography is at a very high level. Camera work is great. The lighting guys are on fire. The cgi artists are majestic. The actors are competent. The stunt choreography is lit. And the set and clothing designers need a huge raise. And that also shows that one element that has totally regressed in this age. The fucking writing.

[@Kulumuli]

The Last Jedi was such an insult that I cannot bring myself to watch The Rise of Skywalker. I wonder if I have seen a worse movie. And I have seen Plan 9 from Outer Space.

[@nendymion]

@Cipher Wolf Palpatine could have won had he not announced himself at all. He had all the resources at his disposal, a fleet of ships and his own army. He really had no need for the First Order anymore. However if he was as smart as he is portrayed in other media, then the Rise of Skywalker couldn't happen.

[@MinscFromBaldursGate92]

Remember when bashing Lucas and the prequels was the height of internet comedy? Good times?

[@corruptangel6793]

I call them "flare movies". Like fireworks they're pretty to look at but utterly hollow.

[@MichaelPlochmann]

But the focus breathing was so bad! Who racks focus that much with an anamorphic lens? It's horrible, almost puked watching it.

[@FirstLast-cg2nk]

Here's a thought for you: What if everything, from the First to the Final Order, was intentionally built to fail. Now, hear me out. See, Palpatine's grand scheme was to take over Rey's body so he could be made whole. Once he did that, though, he'd be in the body of a nobody... unless that nobody was suddenly the hero of the galaxy, a galaxy suddenly bereft of a power structure due to the actions of the First and Final Orders. Heroes become rulers in that kind of situation. So, he created the First and Final Orders, not to be his tools of takeover, but to be his tools of destabilization in the form of the First, and his tool of deception in the form of the Final. The First Order would lay the groundwork for his plans, destroying the existing power structure, driving the rebels into a corner, etc., etc. All of this to create a desperate situation where everyone would be hoping for a hero. And hey, look, his granddaughter has become that hero. Then, the Final Order sweeps in, supplanting the First and establishing itself as this grand, galaxy-destroying threat. And yet, it can be so very easily wiped away... Glaring, critical weaknesses are obvious in every ship, and even in the logistics setup for them. As if they were clay pidgeons set up in a shooting gallery. This could easily have been by design. Why else would he make all of the grand announcements when he was far, far from ready for an actual assault? It was all to sell the Final Order as the enemy of enemies, blinding everyone to the real danger. After all, once the Final Order, the "terrible threat" was wiped out, Palpatine, in Rey's body, could walk right out of the ashes of the Final Order, and with the clout that comes from being the galaxy-saving hero, position him/her/theirself into a position of absolute power and authority, rebuilding the Empire from the ground up. It would be a classic Palpatine manipulation, a scheme on the level of the Prequel trilogies. Too bad they didn't go with that.

[@JamesTobiasStewart]

Honestly, that makes far more sense than the canon of this trilogy. Palpatine was established as an accomplished schemer totally willing to start massive wars simply to improve his own position and authority.

[@glitchedsushi]

That would require a capable writer

[@johnmccarron7066]

That's a much better story than what we got.

[@stuartl7761]

Wow. And there is absolutely no one to stand against them. Everyone's dead or someone who'll follow Ray. No jedi, no rogue sith/guy with a lightsaber, no old rebellion heroes, no resistance, no established galactic power, no notable self interested warlords, The skywalker legacy not only completely destroyed but usurped, no competition what so ever. The only threat I can think of is Lando's ability to summon a galaxy fleet from no where in half a day. He's basically playing conquer the galaxy on sandbox mode now.

[@Stop_Gooning]

Right, but Rey fucked off back to desert planet whatever to live life as a nobody.

[@VioStarclad]

The final possible explanation would actually make sense which is why you know Disney didn't intend it lol. They would have been better off pulling out the Darth Jarjar idea, at least that would have been funny.

[@jessetorres8738]

You know, there is an interesting parallel with the DCMU and Star Wars Rei Trilogy in what went wrong; they didn't properly plan out the entire story of the films/switched up the crew working on the films so the main films failed while the stand alone were superior.

[@rascoehunter3608]

Especially when you watch the sequel trilogy back to back. Hux goes from a calm headed smart leader in a TFA to an unstable cartoony weirdo in TLJ.

[@RedPillCosby-012]

Do the Democrat party. Andrew Cuomo and social security voters spiking m☠️ rates in welfare communities . Injecting Their MPC with Something that's ☠️ more people then the actual virus

[@RedPillCosby-012]

@@dakkerrins6344 talking Factions in real life And it's what theory the nursing home policy the riots actually medical data . Who we to say how stop people starwars prequels when. Repeat dog whistles that don't mean what they dictionary definition means . You fascism is government control of all corporations

[@RedPillCosby-012]

@@jayb0g what about longer history.. but still real life has anyone that stupid in real life like Stalin

[@kennethferland5579]

Letting each director WRITE their respective films was really the root of the problem. First average directors can not write their way out of a paper bag, and the ones they picked were particularly poor writers, unable to think of the film as anything more then a series disconnected of visual spectacles. Second it guanteeed a disjointed plot, even skilled writers would have had little chance in that kind of setup in which they are asked to pickup somone elses work half way through. This is emblematic of a deeper problem in Hollywood, over powered egotistical directors who demand to usurp the role of the writer. This in combination with the long history of terrible pay, disrespect and outright screen play stealing has made writing in Hoolywood a fools game. Anyone with writing tallent goes to TV or book publishing. This has created a vicious downward cycle of incressingly bad writing in film, which encourages directors to usurp even more of the role. The propor role of a director is just to instruct the actors in how to emote their faces. Directors able to mastermind the whole movie are VERY rare and legendary like a Speilburg or George Lucas himself (and Lucas sucks at writing dialoge, or producing a belivable romance), every hack director thinks they can be like that and it's destroyed the craft of screenplay writing.

[@captc0ck5lap60]

*Picks up knife that killed her parents* "This has done terrible things" *Happily weilds Anakins lightsabre, the Youngling Slaughterer 9000*

[@lordravenblade]

I’m still convinced that “the final order” is just a twist of the knife for fans of the EU since the third installment in the real sequel trilogy is “The Last Command”.

[@Hoagsgalaxynetwork]

I remember after seeing the Last Jedi and the hyperspace ram in it I was like “my god this would fundamentally change the entire way warfare is fought in the Star Wars universe how did someone let that stay in the script”.

[@JamesTobiasStewart]

Yep, that technique existing renders all other forms of combat instantly obsolete. It apparently cannot be defended against and allows a smaller vessel to not only utterly destroy a larger one, but also decimate said vessel's support units. They could have inflicted devastating damage to the Death Star by just programming an R2 unit to perform that move in an X-Wing or some moderately sized cargo vessel. Meanwhile in the Clone Wars, where we have armies of droids fighting armies of clones, neither of which have any sort of human rights and are treated as utterly disposable, that move should have been ubiquitous. Plus as our host offered; just program a drone to do it and boom, you have a weapon that is near unstoppable.

[@Stop_Gooning]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I said "what the fuck" out loud in the theater when that happened. If you can use relativistic/light speed weapons then any asteroid with a droid and a hyperdrive can blow a planet up. Capital ships and moon sized space stations would be a massive liability.

[@FonVegen]

I have to admit that I was star-struck by that moment at first, because to be completely fair to the scene in isolation, its audio-visual design is absolutely stellar, and I would love to see something like it in a different setting. Because indeed, once you actually think about it, and once I actually think about it, that scene devolved into a headache that hasn't stopped since and just ruins basically everything in the setting when it comes to warfare. I love the idea of relativistic weapons and their portrayal in media. If only this portrayal hadn't been in a Star Wars movie.

[@aqvamarek5316]

Excatly, why build a death start, doom star, star killer, if a bigh blob of mass, and a hyperdrive would do the same. A "hyperspace ram" only needs a oversized missle to work, metal, a reactor, a hyperdrive, and the ship which aims the missle, or a droid, clone or fanatic who aims it.

[@pmester228]

I mean, it's Star Wars man. Anything more than a cursory look reveals how shoddy and inconsistent its worldbuilding is, unless you can seriously think a planet worth of clones would be enough to fight a galactic war.

[@MyReligionIs2DoGood]

"Vice Admiral Withholdo" and the "Final Disorder" got me rolling! Great video, man! One of your best for sure! :D

[@Diego-zz1df]

OK, I wanna defend the Death Star because, on second thought, it wasn't as stupid as people now claim. Let's see what the Death Star is and what it does on Episode IV: - Giant space station with a hyperdrive - Carries a planet-destroying laser - Enough troops and ships for a planetary invasion - Built with the goal of being so terrifying that the threat of its use would be enough to keep the galaxy in line - First used to destroy Alderaan, seemingly without provocation, based on its population's opposition to the Emperor - Then used to destroy the rebel base on Yavin IV (fails, is destroyed). Now, let's consider the logic of the Empire in building it, its purpose and why they destroyed Alderaan: The Death Star, as per the Tarkin Doctrine, was meant to be a threat that shouldn't need to be used. Tarkin says fear, not destruction, would keep systems in line. So how does the Death Star achieve this? Simple. It's supposed to be so massive, tough and powerful that just seeing it in orbit would make it clear if rebellion wasn't suppressed, then everyone would be killed. The fact it can destroy either an entire planet from space or a huge chunk of its surface as we see in Rogue One means any group of average rebels couldn't reach it before it obliterates them. Then comes the destruction of Aldeaan. Why did the Empire do this? Because they needed to answer the question "would they really dare destroy an entire valuable planet just because of a group of rebels?" before it was even considered. Alderaan was the proof the Empire was willing to use it, so that the next time the Death Star was seen in orbit everyone on the surface got the message and complied with whatever the Empire ordered them to do. From what we see in the movie, we can infer they used it on Alderaan so they wouldn't need to use it on another populated world ever again (Yavin IV was unimportant and only populated by rebels). So from this perspective, it does make sense. To add some head cannon to it, I'd say the Empire saw the exponentially growing costs of their expansion of conventional forces to maintain control of the galaxy and had the idea of a weapon of intimidation that could replace several fleets and make the very idea of rebelling absurd just by existing. It's the equivalent of a full arsenal of nukes & ICBMs and the Tarkin doctrine sounds like a more evil, more extreme version of Eisenhower's doctrine of "Massive Retaliation" and Alderaan as proof they weren't bluffing. Like with Eisenhower, the idea would be to build massive, expensive WMDs to replace vast amounts of even more costly conventional forces.

[@davinitall]

Yes. It was basically nukes. Now, where it went wrong was the second Death Star. I mean, these are expensive military bases and clearly have serious flaws. Feels like that money could have been better spent on other projects rather then on a money pit that already failed once.

[@LeCharles07]

@@davinitall The second Death Star was bait to draw out the Rebellion.

[@LeCharles07]

When Leia lies and says the rebel base is on Dantooine, Tarkin even makes the point that Dantooine is too isolated to make a useful demonstration.

[@Jebu911]

It still seems like a waste. The death star didn't really grant empire any sort of space superiority either that they could have had with just a big bunch of star destroyers and interceptor tie fighters. Reminds me of historical examples like nazis Gustav railway cannons. Sure it looks menacing but its a huge waste of resources just for some fear factor and big booms. Same with yamato class battleships. Only reason nukes even could be used back then was because allies had total air superiority.

[@Aredel]

@@Jebu911 They already had space superiority. The Imperial fleet numbered 25,000 star destroyers across the galaxy (according to expanded material). The issue was with uncooperative worlds and the rebels' propaganda campaigns inciting rebellion from within. A navy can't keep a city in line. With the Death Star, they could essentially vaporize any planet, city or military stronghold that tried to stand up against them, and terrifying the rest of the galaxy into submission. Up until that point, no one in the galaxy had planet-destroying capabilities on that scale, thus it also served as a demonstration of power as much as it was the proverbial gun to the head of the galaxy (to steal a phrase from Halo).

[@ortiznikko]

I love watching people trash on these movies. I think its nice to watch most of the world agree on something, even if only to shit on Disney. I have watched so many hours of critiques on the new star wars movies, it was almost worth watching them lol.

[@curtiskretzer8898]

most are on commercial 🖥

[@calexander7495]

However it's a sad state when there's more interest in trashing Star Wars content than there is in Star Wars content.

[@dragonchr15]

@@calexander7495 there was not much to like in these movies.....I will stick to the Timothy Zahn books....

[@eznosnopes5276]

Rouge One is the exception. But I love hearing people trash these movies and refuse to watch the last one.

[@mightymartin4854]

Personally, I thought the First Order had potential, but Disney *ruined* everything good it had, because they didn't want to make a compelling antagonist. They essentially demoted the First Order to a cabal of *cartoon villains.* Edit: I've always disliked the fact that Disney cut content in order to write a story that *barely* fits into the old narrative. (Although, with Disney being Disney, even that is highly disputable.) A retconned narrative does *not* a good story make, *Disney.*

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

They didn't make a serious antagonist.

[@MinscFromBaldursGate92]

Wasn't the original Empire a bunch of cartoon villains aside for Vader?

[@MrChickennugget360]

@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 no. not cartoon villains. by "cartoon" they mean Hux- and all the screaming officers. The Empire in the Original Trilogy are not cartoons. the OT may be black and white but its not cartoonist.

[@Сайтамен]

@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 Look at Tarkin and think again.

[@achoumachi6695]

Yes like in rogue one, the mandalorian and rebels :/

[@haraldisdead]

"The Force Awakens, absolutely packed with things that are technically Star Wars!" 😆😆😆

[@strikeforce1500]

Disney legit try to sell a smoke with the First Order. "They have everything better, better Tie, better training, yeah!, and even a better Death Star to shoot a solar system" But in reality they just dumb down the New Republic HARD, while they are just Galactic Empire: Stupider Bogaloo. "I D0Nt kAre if R3bel wyn, I juZt wAnt kyLo tO lOoZe", is basically the First Order entire motto. Just change Kylo for whoever else they hate and that is it. Ironically enough. EA Star Wars Battlefront 2 gave them more personality than the whole trilogy.. Heck, they gave more personality to basically everyone.

[@ravenouself4181]

You know shit is bad when EA does something right.

[@Llortnerof]

@@ravenouself4181 Well, right-er. Still, if EA can tell a better story than you, and telling a story is literally the only thing you're doing, you probably have a problem or two.

[@soosandras555]

This video's first 3 minutes brought me far more joy than the entire sequel trilogy.

[@Boredman567]

I like how you used Tuvok and the black Spaceball soldier as reactions, when they're both played by Tim Russ.

[@kyotahellbound1780]

"A dodgy shield vulnerable to hyperdrive incursion." Nope this is the biggest flaw in any of the Disney movies: hyperdrives are literaly incable of functioning in a gravity well. The Milenium Falcon should have been pulled out of hyper long before getting anywhere near the base.

[@Swiftbow]

Yeah, they stole the idea of bypassing a shield with hyperdrive from Stargate SG-1. (Hyperspace works slightly differently in that series.) Amusingly, the episode they stole it from made numerous direct and indirect references to Star Wars.

[@DS-tv2fi]

I remember reading once that it’s not that they can’t, it’s just that they have a little device preventing it to stop idiots from exiting hyperspace inside a star or something.

[@sjbrooksy45]

That would make them stop before getting near any solar system, right?

[@kyotahellbound1780]

@@sjbrooksy45 You do now that gravity is not constant across the entire solar system? That gravity diminishes with the squared distance? A gravity well is the area around an object in which items will be pulled down. It is commonly used in science-fiction as an area of space that prevents ftl travel. In Star Wars the EMpire used Interdiction Cruisers that could generate an artificial gravity well that would pull ships out of hyper and prevent them from escaping into hyper.

[@Swiftbow]

@@sjbrooksy45 Hyperdrives conk out when near large gravity wells. So no... you can hyperdrive through a solar system, but will stop if pass too close to a planet, moon, or star. And by close, I mean like CLOSE. Like about the distance that our satellites orbit Earth.

[@qwefg3]

The sequels were a mess as their "book editions" tried to fix the glaring plot holes only to have the poorly made edit fixes also get ignored and written out by the next movie. They tried to explain how Rey was so strong in the first movie just to be ignored by the even worse excuse in the second movie. Sometimes it makes you wonder how these movies got past the editing board until you saw who was editing them.

[@Critical_Hit]

Who?

[@sirknightly3362]

I thought the OT book was pretty good; do the sequel books at least improve the quality of the story being told from the movies, or is it still an overall mess?

[@seymourkrelborn4780]

What was the book's explanation?

[@kieranhurst8543]

The original trilogy isn't that good take off your nostalgia goggles

[@vaderdown788]

@@kieranhurst8543 Heresy

[@pinaerpowac4130]

Who remembers the admiral piat? He was a good level headed leader. While he left hyperspace to close to hoth he was not wrong to do so. He wasn't expecting a working planetary shield and didn't want to give the rebels time to respond. If his plan worked he could've immediately commenced orbital bombardment. Also when the falcon dropped from sensors he speculated that they may have had a cloaking device. He was far from stupid, the rebels simply did the unexpected.

[@eddieboncek2447]

Yeah, instead Vader choked him out over a Skype call! Lol

[@alphawolf7417]

Wrong guys on both your comments. Admiral Ozle was the one who got too close to Hoth, so Vader killed him and replaced him with Piet. Captain Nitta was the 1 who assumed the Falcon had a cloaking device and was killed by Vader. Piet actually outlived even the Emperor and led the Imperial forces until he was killed on the bridge of the Super Star Destroyer. And all 3 were still better than these sequel leaders.

[@seanledden4397]

So much to hate in these movies. Take downs like this are therapeutic for me. :)

[@kevmasengale6903]

That's what happens when the movie hates its audience.

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

And somehow, despite losing their superweapon, flagship and Supreme Leader, in the span of a day, they still managed to conquer the galaxy. But then, their opponent was the New "but rebel, aren't warships imperial?" Republic. Almost as bad as the Final "we don't know which way is up" Order

[@blakksabb]

Its pretty obvious in TroS that FirstOrder did NOT conquer the galaxy. Kylo was trying to finally achieve that, and that is a central element of the film. The novel makes it really blasted obvious. Keep watching these YT vids instead of the movies. You'll never know what actually happened

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

@@blakksabb I did watch the movies, and it's quite obvious that in TLJ the First Order is implied to have won the war, and is now simply slowly consolidating its gains. For the Resistance to be the last spark of hope, and for literally the entire FO leadership to be dedicated to its eradication, the actual military forces of the New Republic must have been defeated or have surrendered. Otherwise, the 400 something Resistance members and their singular battlecruiser would be a mere nuisance and not implied to be all that's standing between the First Order and galactic subjugation. The same is true in TROS, since Lando's reinforcements are all civilian vessels, and the Resistance once again the only opponent apparently capable of striking against the First and Final Orders. At most, it's showing Kylo having trouble nation building and avoiding disorganized spread malcontent. Finally, I shouldn't have to read the comics to understand what is happening in the movies. The comics should expand canon, not be essential, unless what was first introduced in a comic is reiterated in a film. Most people don't care enough to read them, so they'll always believe what they saw on screen, which contradicts the comics.

[@blakksabb]

@@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870 So, you missed a few things: Rey (TLJ): "The FirstOrder will take all the major starsystems within weeks" This dialogue states that they are in process of conquering Zori (TroS): She is leading a resistance group trying (and failing) to thwart the conquest of Kijimi. After seeing Poe, she decides to give up the fight for Kijimi and join Poe to fight the big fight on Exogol. This shows the FirstOrder finally succeeding in conquering the galaxy. You see, in films this big, many facets of info are left to quick dialogue or subtle hints from visuals or musical score. You gotta look close, like any SW film, to see the fine details. You, sir, just missed those details. Watch the films again. And again. Read the novels. Watch the deleted scenes. If you expect a single film to show you everything in a vast massive story, you probably shouldnt be into StarWars or Marvel or the like. Just sayin. Peace out, for real 😉👍

[@Ackalan]

@@blakksabb The novels are simply desperate attempts to fill in the plot holes in between movies. Also, since you seem to have missed that TLJ and TroS are set A YEAR apart. So when they say this: "Rey (TLJ): "The First Order will take all the major star systems within weeks" Do you want to take a guess where they are a year after that? That's right, they have won. And we can even quote the TLJ (again a year before TroS) crawl: "The First Order reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, supreme leader Snoke sends his merciless legions to size military control over the galaxy." The republic fleet is defeated in the first movie and the Republic officially surrendered and what's left is ground invasions of a few independent planets. That's what that means. The war is over and they are now squashing the last remnants of resistance. reign rān noun Exercise of sovereign power, as by a monarch. The period during which a monarch rules. Dominance or widespread influence. You see, you're a fanboy desperately trying to defend the massive inconsistencies between Ryan and Abrahams different visions. It's stupid and annoying, get a life.

[@blakksabb]

@@Ackalan Nah, whining brat fanatics who cant see past their anger and self-riteousness are the really annoying thing about StarWars. You louts just move goalposts and find pathetic excuses to sling some seriously bloates hate around. Some ppl have absolutely missed or lost the essential point of this whole entire saga: Angr and hate lead to suffering. Y'all nitpick kids' stories for tiny bits to exploit w hate. All you do is cause strife and suffering. But, I will always try to shine light on the darkness of your anger. These films are not nearly as convoluted as you ppl say. There is much for merit that you discredit w your nitpicking blabberfest. Go enjoy something for once, and then keep doing it! Only when you are at peace will you truly understand life's fine details

[@lordpneumael]

I eagerly anticipate Thrawn showing what an Imperial remnant should actually be. Frankly he was a far better leader than the Sith ever were anyway.

[@ahhmm5381]

Thrawn... hahaha, useless without Delta Source

[@casbot71]

*Your retcon is a brilliant idea!* A Darth Rey/Palpatine would be a terrifying villain in a new trilogy, especially if she was subtle and hid her nature - perhaps with a alternate Sith identity … using a helmet *sigh.* It has a lot of potential, to be squandered. I can't wait to see the concept butchered by Disney.

[@BrandanLee]

Had Rey been haunted by the ghost of Palpatine from her first appearance, and Luke been on a mission to save her, but instead Beno Solo falls for Reypatine's message that the reorganized jedi and new republic are simply making the same mistakes of the past -- that would be a good movie.

[@DS-tv2fi]

17:00 I just realized. If, like me, you’ve ever played a dogfighting sim, you’d know that being close to AA guns is a death sentence, so what that guy said was total nonsense.

[@commandere2475]

Being close to AA guns is most definitely going to be a stupid idea. However I wouldn't consider the turrets on the dreadnought AA guns, since they are really big, have a comparatively low rate of fire (compared to something like an MG used for close range AA support in WW2) and don't shoot shrapnel dispersing grenades. Meaning that relatively slow turrets have to hit a small, fast moving target directly. The same problem the empire had in ANH, but they didn't expect small starfighters to actually threaten the Death Star. In comparison, a dreadnought is a much weaker target, meaning you should definitely invest into proper AA weapons.

[@DS-tv2fi]

@@commandere2475 Another fair point as to why the first order are clueless.

[@MilkT0ast]

@@commandere2475 but those are turbo lasers, which have been canonically shown they are used as AA

[@commandere2475]

@@MilkT0ast True, ever since ANH Turbolasers have been used as AA, and they were never really good at it. I believe smaller guns, like the ones on the Millennium Falcon would be much better suited as AA guns. Or missiles. The First Order had missiles in TFA. Should have put those on their dreadnought.

[@Crossbone_Vanguard]

"activate the CIWS!" *roll credits*

[@warlordofbritannia]

When TFA first came out, I thought the First Order and Snoke was going to be a re-purposing of the Thrawn Trilogy: Mysterious alien leader Apparently competent human second in command Half-sane Dark Jedi Emerging from the Unknown Regions to strike back at the New Republic, including scouring their capital… It, uh, it didn’t work out that way…

[@ginnungagapabyss5639]

I prefer his darker ending, with the emperor possessing Rey, but yeah it makes the ship even weirder, I guess he wanted to test out the new body, or poisoned him with the kiss.

[@boxtank5288]

Drained the last of his life with it I'd have gone with.

[@ginnungagapabyss5639]

@@boxtank5288 I see

[@dragonchr15]

if force ghosts are a light side technique then force posession could easily be a dark-side technique

[@ginnungagapabyss5639]

@@dragonchr15 I think that’s the case, but I’m not the expert

[@adrammelechthewroth6511]

I hate that ending.

[@stephenridgway2720]

The mouse has certainly shown us that empires aren’t a good idea.

[@robdean6893]

God damn. This theory about Palps living on in Rey is one I haven't heard before and it would have been a decent twist ending... If the rest of the trilogy had been any good

[@HereticalKitsune]

Vice Admiral Withholdo got me. Just wondering, but if the Last Order fleet couldn't get away from Exegol due to reasons, how could the Civilian Fleet do it after they got there?

[@scottgaultney]

Writer: "Because Shut up! Writing a coherent movie with consistant internal logic is hard!"

[@Bl4ckD0g]

She was only in the movie because it was Rian's sex fantasy. Guess he likes being cucked by purple haired women.

[@johannesseyfried7933]

Vice Admiral Withholdo! 😄😆

[@hassathunter2464]

Their ships didn't suck? And could tell "up"?

[@HereticalKitsune]

@@hassathunter2464 So, that giant force that has never ever been to that planet and system is better prepared than the fleet that was build under these conditions? Terrible excuse from Disney. Sorry, but that Exagol-plot was bad.

[@felman87]

I sincerely believe that Rise of Skywalker is merely two scripts mashed together. Palpatine wants Rey dead but also her alive to he can transfer into her body. What if Ren accomplished his mission and killed Rey, then what? It seems like the better script had Palpatine convince Ren to bring Rey to him so he could convert her, which is essentially what Ren wanted to do in the first two movies anyway. One script had Palpatine want to transfer his body into hers, another script had him want Rey dead. The Knights of Ren plot was in one script but that got jettisoned in the merger. Finn spent the entire movie insisting there was something he had to tell Rey but putting it off till later and then never paying it off because whatever love angle he had with Rey got lost and replaced with Ren. The entire movie is a mess.

[@Stop_Gooning]

I don't even remember what happened with Finn at the end of the movie.

[@HecticCentral]

I always saw the Finn thing has him wanting to announce that he had some force sensitivity. But either way, they never followed it up

[@umwha]

Was there a reason Palpatine couldn’t take over the body of someone else? If it had to be a force user why not kylo?

[@Sorain1]

@@umwha If I was told to fix this, I'd essentially say "Spiritual connection, she's related to him by blood. That matters for the force technique."

[@bufongodemdabae308]

Imagine being part of a relatively professional fighting force and your commander is a man child who still throws violent temper tantrums even though he’s over 30 or something. Oh and he has a laser sword and weird universe magic at his whim too.

[@electrohalo8798]

just to add to the many MANY space ball comparisons, space ball ones VACU SUCK mode is more effective of a superweapon than starkiller!, and leaves the world intact for resource exploitation with easier extraction due to no atmosphere

[@genericytprofile852]

True but in legends and cannon it was shown to be able to fire at lower power to simply break a planet up into chunks. No atmosphere and no big gravity well to mess transportation up.

[@corruptangel6793]

@@genericytprofile852 even more than that, the Death Star novel from Legends showed that at a low enough setting, the blast will just scorch the planet. Which would leave the planet harvestable, at least in ore resources like on Mustafar.

[@Aredel]

Rule #1 of writing a story: if you need to rely on expanded material produced after the fact for your story to make sense, then you have failed to write a good story.

[@ClothesCat]

I am glad you gave just as much attention to LGBT representation as Disney did. It's like poetry, so it rhymes. Edit correction: Proportionally to run-time there's more LGBT representation in this video, which is even more impressive.

[@pepperedash4424]

Almost disappointed that he didn't mention that scene was mysteriously missing from theaters in a few countries.

[@mechanomics2649]

At the same time, it seems weird to call it out at all though.

[@pepperedash4424]

@@mechanomics2649 Why? It was a petty attempt by Disney to pretend they cared. It deserves to be called out.

[@pmester228]

@@pepperedash4424 He did that. The random lesbians.

[@pepperedash4424]

@@pmester228 Media Zealot meant "random", as in that scene was came out of nowhere without any context or buildup.

[@valmarsiglia]

Plus it's hard to be scared of Kylo because his helmet makes him look like an angry duck.

[@TK--hf6db]

Something you maybe didn't think about mentioning was that the Final Order could've won the battle by having every single one of it's thousand Star Destroyers deploy their entire TIE fighter wings. The Sith Star Destroyers are based on the Imperial 1 SD design but scaled up in every way plus the axial super laser. A Imperial 1 SD can hold up to 72 TIEs of different variation so a Sith could let's say 94. Palpatine's fleet numberd 1,080 so that's 1,080X94 which is 101520 TIEs that should've been fighting.

[@markgrehan3726]

I know it's for story reasons but what's always bugged me is the Imperials/New Order know that the Rebels rely on smaller ships but they never launch more than a handful of starfighters. It's like a modern aircraft carrier being attacked by enemy aircraft that only launches one helicopter to defend itself.

[@TK--hf6db]

@@markgrehan3726 For the Imperials that's not exactly true. During the battle of Yavin, the empire sent out enough TIEs to defeat the rebels. Remember less than five rebel fighters survived Yavin so off-screen the others are being swarmed. Also when the Falcon went into the asteroid field after Hoth, the empire sent out hundred maybe even a thousand TIEs to comb the entire asteroid field. We see a handful chase the Falcon becuase they got lucky.

[@markgrehan3726]

@@TK--hf6db That's the problem though these are done off-screen and sound like something covered in a comic/book to explain a mistake retroactively, though I guess hundreds of fighters could have checked the asteroid field. The only onscreen depiction I can remember is during the Battle of Scarif and the end of Jedi and even then the Imperials make the same mistake of bunching up too closely.

[@TK--hf6db]

@@markgrehan3726 It's not an on-screen attempt to fix a mistake. Think for a second about how hard it it is to film a massive space battle without CGI that incorporates big ships and fighters. Star Trek movies at this time knew how hard that was so they only stuck to big ships. ROTJ was the first movie to be that ambitious with space battles.

[@markgrehan3726]

@@TK--hf6db All it would take is a single line of dialogue you don't have to film the actual battle.

[@tristemsaris7739]

They actually did a calvary charge on a star destroyer. Now that's a sentence I never thought I'd ever hear.

[@aralornwolf3140]

It was in the trailer... Where have you been?

[@tristemsaris7739]

@@aralornwolf3140 not wasting my time watching the trailer to a crappy movie I had no interest in ever seeing.

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@tristemsaris7739 , What about the advertisements they had on YT, did you ignore them too? Lol. It was everywhere... and it was a sign that the movie was garbage and people went and saw it anyway. *Shakes Head*

[@tristemsaris7739]

@@aralornwolf3140 honestly it's entirely possible I did see it, but I either didn't pay attention to it or I just completely forgot about it. My memories not what it used to be.

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@tristemsaris7739 , It's okay... the cavalry charge on the ship was punctuated with "they fly now!" moment of the advertisements, lol.

[@toddrobbins4608]

Kylo had enough training to overwhelm a Job master, Luke Skywalker, and was then supposedly further trauma by Snoke. The problem wasn't Kylo's training, it was incredibly piss poor writing all the way around

[@Aredel]

And the audience is beaten over the head throughout Star Wars with the notion that pain, hatred and agony are the greatest sources of strength a Sith can draw upon. We even see Kylo beating his wound to strengthen himself even further.

[@efe_aydal]

lol that's gonna be good. Still hoping for Wakanda.

[@missinginaction2b]

Soon...

[@st4ne4rmthevill63]

How is Wakanda too stupid too exist?

[@rascoehunter3608]

@@st4ne4rmthevill63 Trial by combat is the first thing that comes to mind.

[@Apocraphtica]

Nobody: All wakanda fans: "We wuz KANGS ! ! We can`t breathe ! !

[@milesalexandre]

@@Apocraphtica racist

[@ronakino]

“Bestowing upon her the honor of becoming the weirdest Disney Princess ever.” I nearly choked on my breakfast.

[@saitougin7210]

10:45 "Or he can finally see now that he has ditched the helmet." Now every Stormtrooper makes sense!

[@adc1222]

I just love how they say that if Rey kills Palpatine that Palpatine will just possess Rey, and then she just kills him anyways and nothing happens? What the fuck? So was he lying? Or did the writers just forget what they just said 5 minutes earlier

[@yaldabaoth2]

While someone technically wrote this movie, it would be an insult to actual writers to call them that.

[@scottgaultney]

Writer: "What happens is Shut up! Writing a coherent movie with consistent internal logic is hard!" I know I used this in response to another person, but it fits here. Hell, it fits pretty much every question regarding this trilogy.

[@johnnygyro2295]

It might've been cooler if Palpatine actually tried to possess Rey, only for the ghosts of Jedis past, and maybe Kylo/Ben, help exorcise/banish Palpatine to whatever Star Wars has for a hell.

[@njalsand133]

Stop being so competent

[@dw1419]

“This is a movie about space wizards intended for children. Stop expecting it to have any internal coherence!” /s

[@ferderonhurgeron9263]

"What is the point of all this..." -Hux would be great at CinemaSins.

[@WhoMightThis1Be]

My favourite part about those planet destroyer canons is that targetting them was totally unnecessary, they already found out there is only one ship controlling all of them but they only send Finn and his goons to get that while they used the majority of their forces to explode star destroyers that fell to the ground a few minutes later anyway

[@bryanm498]

And just one second after General Finn and the General goons destroy the relay after a General cavalry charge, General Dameron do a flyby in his General X-wing that could simply shot a próton torpedo before all this mess.

[@robertb7293]

Sith ships need help navigating in Exegols dangerous weather. That... doesn't inconvenience rebel ships at all. Hmm. That's either thirty years of planning ruined by one overcast day. Or both sides of the trilogy were the usefullest idiots to ever usefully idiot. But it's clear Disney wasn't being that clever, and that Palpatine winning was an accident. In fact, Disney so dumb, that my favourite theory is that Ian McDiarmid somehow manipulated them into making Palpatine the main character of the entire setting.

[@Sorain1]

Okay I offically like the idea of Ian McDiarmid realizing these writers are idiots and leading them into doing that, just because he can and it'd be fun for him to do it.

[@Aredel]

He did have a very sneaky voice in that interview when he mentioned they only called him up about bringing back the emperor a year or so before the movie came out.

[@njalsand133]

The empire would most likely turn into a lot of smaller factions ruled by nobles

[@talltroll7092]

That's what the EU had happen to the Empire, a much reduced Imperial Remnant that still maintained central authority, with many Moffs grabbing what forces and territory they could to compete amongst themselves as warlords

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

@@talltroll7092 Which was actually a genuinely facinating plot, even before a certain blue fellow started appreciating Sun Tzu.

[@dragonchr15]

@@talltroll7092 it was the ONLY logical conclusion as the rebels destroyed the death star and killed vader and palpatine.....the various imperial fleets throughout the galaxy were still intact and quickly became "rebels" themelves

[@vanilla8956]

I wish you mentioned that when the Snoke is killed by Kylo, his guards attack Kylo Ren… their new boss. What were they going to do if they won? Stand there awkwardly realizing they're unemployed now?

[@thezeropike]

Going to be honest, I normally skip sponsor ads in videos, but that Hunt A killer actually looks like fun. I did not skip it.

[@soidz4569]

There's very little to say about this trilogy that hasn't already been tired out and said. You know something that is bad when people just stop talking about it. I mean, I'd rather listen to another critique on stormtroopers or the Empire. Hell, I'd rather listen to another critique on the KOTOR/TOR eras than slog through another on the last trilogy. Just goes to show how good Media Zealot is that he can draw me into another video on them.

[@howmanynamesaretaken]

I've never seen so much money thrown at something only for it to so utterly die off from pop culture completely. It's actually remarkable.

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

When the talk goes from the movies quality, to obfuscation by only talking about how the fans are one of two things is...depressing

[@AMPMASTER10]

Too be fair, cloning Force Sensitives is nearly impossible. Even in the old cannon.

[@Aredel]

There’s jars of pickled Snoke clones all over the place.

[@AMPMASTER10]

@@Aredel Correction, jars of FAILED pickled Snoke. I mean most of them are even worse shape then the one in the previous two

[@ctdaniels7049]

@@Aredel Different Snokes for different folks

[@glauberglousger6643]

Beh, why clone? Palpatine’s already gotten his cultists to start an orgy to fill all the Xyston class’s, so why not get them to start another one?

[@Sorrelhas]

​@@ctdaniels7049Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum

[@Flaris]

Oh boy. I have waited to see the stupid First Order lined up for this series.

[@thelordakira]

with the amount of turning Rey does, she might be a model. as long as she just turns left.

[@markednomad3630]

Zoolander reference, nice.

[@pauljimerson8218]

Shes not an ambi turner

[@teeheeteeheeish]

Theoretically, Kylo should have had significant experience with a light saber, as he was the leader of the Knights of Ren. He should have been portrayed as the young prodigy with insane power while Rey should have been portrayed the unskilled underdog. Would have also been cool to show something else about the Knights of Ren, like maybe showing one or more of the other 6 members. But Hollywood storytelling lacks the most basic adherence to good writing principles so here we are.

Okay, the Reypatine theory actually makes sense. Far more sense than most of the other things in the sequel trilogy. But the thing that really bugs me the most isn't even the First Order's idiocy (they are Imperial descendants, so it's in their DNA) but the New Republic. TLJ is supposed to take place not long after TFA, maybe a few days afterwards. Are we to believe that the New Republic had no fleets at all? Because if they had, they would be lining up behind the hero of the Rebellion who has been warning and organizing against the First Order for decades or so. Especially after the First Order's main deterrent went kaboom. So the only reason the First Order lasted longer than 10 minutes into the second movie is that their enemies were even dumber.

[@syndicatius]

iirc in cannon the main Republic Fleet met its fate with Hosnian system which is even worse than not having any fleets imo

[@barret-xiii]

@@syndicatius That is indeed much worse. It basically suggests that not only did they apparently disarm their militaries (it's a fucking GALAXY! Trillions upon trillions of people, and clearly not everyone sees eye to eye, so war is ALWAYS a possibility to be prepared for!), but they also decided to put all their most important political assets and strategic minds in one place for an easy target.

[@dragonchr15]

@@syndicatius yes, it was never explained well in the movie....the New Republic was utterly annhilated with (presumably) it's entire fleet when they fired the super weapon