Advantages of Different Wing Mount Locations

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[@JagerRacing]

I love the just because you can mount it higher, doesn’t mean you should…. So perfect

[@breakmywalletmotorsport]

You’ve successfully maxed out the interest in watching someone do math on KZbin🤣🤣🤣 But awesome info! Thank You!

[@Vittinable]

Great explanation AJ. Another way to look at this is, if you are wing limited, as in, you have a wing that you need to run, for whatever reasons, and you need a bit more rear downforce, but arent limited on the front you can just add setback to said wing to increase downforce and the rear, and then compensate by adding to the front.

[@tonytober]

Quality content! Sharing to friends as this kind of info is a pain to explain to many, as aero is always mythed as "magic" or "rwd/awd thing"

[@gt2limited]

You are solving for the same lift on the front axle which of course can be achieved with a smaller force on a bigger distance, but sum of the forces will also be smaller so less downforce on the rear.

[@h-j.k.8971]

Have enjoyed watching your episodes, especially when you actually make the parts, so I thought it would be fun to sport one of your "increase your carbon fibre footprint" T-Shirts around the racecourses of central Europe. Keep up the good work 🙂

[@RuskiWeldFab]

like straight off the bat! literally what I am about to do on mine is raise the wing up to max that regulations allow. currently 30mm lower.

[@ajhartmanaero]

I should have made a caveat that on something like a hatch like yours, it’s a good option in that case.

[@denisbassom172]

Interesting and educational, thanks

[@marcog6470]

My favorite channel for sure you’re super talented dude!

[@JagerRacing]

A few very important points you made, the aero is a system and must be treated as such. Also considering the weight mounting higher (including the mount weight to make it higher).

[@michaelblacktree]

This is good stuff! Thanks for sharing. I'm a big fan of set-back rear wings, for exactly the reasons you described. Although racing rules sometimes don't allow it. BTW, you mentioned how rear window slope can affect wing placement. How about the E46? Is the rear glass sloped enough to allow a low-mount wing? (i.e. below roof height)

[@l8tapex]

TKs as always

[@JETZcorp]

I think the ideal wing height to find clean air for my Miata must be roughly pattern altitude at the local regional airport.

[@marcog6470]

Please make the GTD and GT3 fenders and drs system or parts kit for the s550. Ill def buy it for my gt500 cftp

[@newagetemplar6100]

Cool interesting content . Just at the right time . I’m rubbish at numbers and diagrams are always easier to understand . Fortunately or unfortunately I’ll just ‘wing it ‘ 😂and use the tried and tested theory of look at plenty of pictures and if it looks right it won’t be far off . Admittedly not always the best scenario but when all your car is flat floor and the rear diffuser is an unknown entity then without a 3D scan and CFD it’s rather impossible to determine the total outcome . I’ve not really looked into the cost of running CFD but I would recommend it to everyone as it’s far cheaper in the long run . And may go that route myself yet . Many may say it is too expensive but at the end of the day how many thousands of £/$ will one spend wasting time and money on power upgrades/ diff ratios and suspension upgrades over the years ??? Think theirs a company in the UK that give a basic analysis with your own 3D files . Or chuck some money to a university student for beer and get it done that way 😂❤

[@p0intdk]

Great video AJ, learned a lot many things here to apply to ones race car, but I have one question though. Applying force on the front to compensate for force on the rear, will it have an effect in making the rear have less force being the front will try to lift the rear or am I being silly?

[@ajhartmanaero]

No, you are correct. The math would work about the same on the front axle if you knew front Df numbers.

[@paulboutsiadis5085]

where do you get your 3d models for CFD? I am struggling to find good models (many of them need A LOT of defeaturing)

[@LucaDaniOfficial]

Hi, can you help me understand why the epoxy resin does not adhere to the already hardened resin? I have already tried to scratch the surface with 60 and then also 500 sandpaper. They told me I have to use polyester resin over the epoxy resin

[@newagetemplar6100]

Laminating on to and cured surfaces will not be structurally as strong as in a first lay up / cure . Surface area and forces are the main areas of concern. If your just referring to non structural bodywork repairs then I’d still go epoxy/ epoxy . Polyester will literally just pop off even with mild heat and a bit of flex . The same can happen with polyester car body filler . Depending on your requirements and type of repair and say in the case of a front wing or bumper then try a cheap sand blasting pot , this should erode the epoxy away whilst still leave some bare fibres and give the repair a better key . Obvs don’t use an industrial sand blaster !!! There may also be some primers around too . Vynalester ( think that’s spelt correctly) maybe ok as that is the gelcoat used when vac bagging epoxy so vynalester based resin may work . If bonding structural components then there’s several specific adhesives on the market though I have tried non so could not really comment.

[@jay12345ist]

How’s the prototype for the gtd wing going? Excited to see that developement

[@ajhartmanaero]

Getting there

[@S65B40_]

Was just looking at your previous video on this subject. I’m about to install a big wing on a M3. Don’t know how far forward or back to mount it. The height is more or less roof height.

[@ajhartmanaero]

To many variables to make a suggestion just off that.

[@S65B40_]

@@ajhartmanaero no doubt. Im just going to go with best guess lol Hope to see you out at VIR one of these days!

[@303cris]

nice shirt lol

[@ritemasterful]

what about a diffuser? what is the lever of a diffuser or a flat floor?

[@ajhartmanaero]

The math would be similar but you’d need to know the CoP of the floor or diffusor.

[@ritemasterful]

@@ajhartmanaero make sense, thanks!

[@philnorcross8973]

Any chance we will see a front splitter soon for the S550.

[@ajhartmanaero]

I have an option for 15-17's with the air dam. It would fit the 18-23's as well but the air dam part would need to be made by the installer.

[@philnorcross8973]

@@ajhartmanaero Is that on your website.

[@ajhartmanaero]

@@philnorcross8973 yes. In the 15-17 mustang section.

[@jonmortensen9990]

Maybe it's because I had to take trig 4x, but I found your explanation confusing. I think I get what you're saying, but the way you went through the math, it kinda sounded like your goal was to hit the same upforce number at the front. The point, if I'm understanding correctly, is that you can have similar torque (downforce) at the rear with less wing angle and drag with the wing futher back. Maybe would be better instead of making the downforce 500 lbs on the wing in each scenario, make the amount of downforce at the suspension the same (make the torque equal at rear wheel). Then you can show that the further back the wing is the less downforce you need at the element, so you can trim it out, reduce drag, and get the downforce with less penalty, in addition to pumping a diffuser better, etc. Suggestion for a future video: spoiler with wing, how length and angles affect the wing/diffuser. I've been thinking of trying different lengths and angles, some really shallow angles like you see on drag spoilers. I have a hunch that drag spoilers and whale tails and other relatively flat spoilers clean up the airflow off of the bottom of the car by giving the air in the wake something to follow, but make it too long and it might negatively affect the diffuser/wing relationship. Thanks as always for doing these vids.

[@ajhartmanaero]

Apparently I did great explaining it since you just described exactly what I did.

[@boychef4862]

10in is a huuuge setback I mean anyone should be happy with 5 or 6in… that’s a more average size

[@ajhartmanaero]

Haha

[@rolandotillit2867]

One thing you forgot, the rear wing also has to synergize with the diffuser, so while it's beneficial to have the wing in clean air, it's even more beneficial to extract air from the diffuser.

[@ajhartmanaero]

I literally mention that exact thing.

[@RuskiWeldFab]

@@ajhartmanaero right at the end tho haha, no one watches till the end. almost no one ;)

[@ajhartmanaero]

@@RuskiWeldFab that’s where I hide my secrets.

[@rolandotillit2867]

@@ajhartmanaero I forgot it's Kyle who does your aero. I'll say less.

[@tag180rotax]

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