Adventurer's Guide to Leather Water Bottles

[@StevenHouse1980]

1 cup = 250ml per flask, 1 Pint = 500ml per flagon. 1 bottle = 1Liter. Doctors recomended drinking 2 Liters of water minimum perday. Avoid alcohol if you can.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

Thank you :)

[@brucelee3388]

A 'standard' modern wine bottle is 750ml or 3 Metric cups - some countries use a 200ml cup instead.

[@eliasbram3710]

about 36ml of water per kg of bodyweight. If you are exercising, eating extra protein or just eating too much sodium, at least 38 to 40ml per kg

[@TheShieldery]

"If you can" I failed XD

[@AzraelThanatos]

@@brucelee3388 A lot of the leather bottles based on them are a bit bigger...mainly because a lot of them use a bottle as a form for wetforming

[@ModernKnight]

Great video, and I'll look into it. It might be ease of manufacture/carrying, or wanting to maximize volume (so spherical ish). If it needs to stand up on its own maybe a cylinder is better? Sometimes they might have mimicked the shape of a cows stomach as a throwback to another type of water carrying vessel? Often though, being human, they might have just made nice shapes that pleased them?

[@LivingAnachronism]

Looking forward to it, thank you Sir Jason. I, with little evidence, do believe they simply had shapes that they liked, and maybe chose to embellish them even more as they saw fit. Likely they simply knew, such and such a shape works, no reason to reinvent the wheel.

[@Sarafimm2]

Is it possible they were barrel shaped for a reason? I know many people also carried their own cup and silverware on them, too. You could easily buy a drink from a vendor for your cup, but what about pouring from a large flask into a cup for a friend? Especially if it contained spirits which was much tastier and known to be better than water out of local rivers (or even some wells) if you were in a big city. Having the opening on top would avoid accidental spillage more than if it was corked like a barrel or cask.

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

@@LivingAnachronism Hello, I came across information about a rather unusual weapon from ancient times. This could be really effective - under certain circumstances. I think this could be used in HEMA or LARP too. It's not life-threatening in itself, as long as you don't want to hurt someone. But it can give you an advantage over your opponent. Could I talk to you about this non-publicly? Maybe by e-mail or other means? :)

[@TheLeathersmithShop]

Did you ever get any more info on this? These bottles and the patterns for them are still some of my best sellers, and I love the history. I still feel like the more complex versions would've been made by experienced crafters and sold, whereas the more basic ones could be made by basically anyone at home. I've made dozens of bottles, and those barrels are definitely not the easiest to make haha.

[@andrewbutton2039]

The odd shapes are most likely made by using random large scraps from shoes or pouches, or possibly failed parts of those. Stitching holes go wrong while poking sewing holes the toe piece of a shoe? Trim the edges, slap two fails together, sew it up and it's a salable flask.

[@blackdragoncomics3186]

Actually reading LOTR for the first time now, I’ll keep your question in mind and keep a tab on how many times Frodo and Sam fill their water bottles.

[@LivingAnachronism]

Enjoy the read

[@JayM409]

I don't remember who did this, but someone has recorded how far they travelled on an average day (average speed of 3 miles or a league an hour), and how much food they would had needed to carry between stops. The Elvin bread would have helped enormously. I try and find the video about this.

[@McBernes]

I've read the LOTR books a few times, and I envy a little bit that first time experience. You are in for a real treat!

[@joelledurben3799]

Most of the water refills aren't mentioned, but it becomes relevant when they are traveling in drier or more polluted areas.

[@greylocke100]

Some of them are shaped unusually because they were using left over pieces of leather to make them. I've seen a few that would maybe hold half a pint to a pint of liquid, to a couple that would hold over a gallon.

[@VosperCDN]

Exactly what I was thinking, that leatherworkers just made use of spare bits to make something else out of them. Not all, but likely more than a few.

[@embee7434]

That had been my initial thought as well.

[@McBernes]

There is a channel named Townsends that is about colonial american re-enactment. He has a great video showing how to make a leather water bottle.

[@russrandall4834]

Skilltree did one as well.

[@Passolargo_Junior]

I can not say much about the reason behind the shape from an historical perspective, but I can give some insight from the physical one. The closer a bottle's shape is to the the one of a sphere, the better at retaining the temperature of the liquid inside it is. This happens because the sphere is the smallest surfice you can have for a fixed volume, and the smaller the surfice is, the less heat will be transfered between the liquid inside the bottle and the external ambient.

[@stonedog5547]

The problem is the closer to a sphere it is the harder to fix it close to the body so the more it flaps around. Costrels and canteens are flattened to fit closer to the body, but are less effective containers You just have to compromise

[@randolphtrager5858]

Nice observation

[@Cascadian_Ranger]

I strongly agree with the idea of having a smaller bottle as a "first line" kit, for those who are familiar with the "three lines" theory of combat gear. Much like carrying a 1 liter canteen on your chest rig/carrier, carrying a smaller costrel with your base larp kit as you indicated is a great idea. Because of my own experience, I tend to carry what might be considered an excess of water (3-5 liters capacity regardless of distance). I have burned 10 liters of water in a day, carried with 5 liters of capacity between canteens and a bladder. This is a full, full day of hiking with high temperatures, but still. 5 liters of water in a day is well within reason, especially if you live in a mountainous region where you are pushing hard hills, and think there would be lots of water, but often you'll be surprised how difficult it is to find. Better to have an excess of water than not enough. You'll be amazed how running out of water will affect your morale and immediately make you feel thirstier. Great video, cheers.

[@LivingAnachronism]

Absolutely agree. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

[@24darush]

Ammunition and water is all you need for slaughter 😁

[@Kevin80237]

A fellow water engulfer. I completely and utterly agree with you

[@MartinAhlman]

If you are a musician/fidler/bard you need a bigger bottle to fit all the mead. Who knows how far it is to the next tavern/inn? Well, I do, I've been all over the world taking notes. The best one is "Gyllene Hjorten", it's in the middle of "Björkskogen", if you ever should be passing. Good food too!

[@marcusfridh8489]

Sorkar och strängar

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

In reference to the bottle swinging about a lot at 11:20, there is a way to stop that depending on what clothing is worn. If you have a belt on the outside of all clothing, unlike Kramer's waistcoat, you can wear the belt over the top of the straps and hold them in place. It's what a lot of soldiers did in the past when they had musette bags and water bottles on shoulder straps.

[@marcusfridh8489]

The same way shoulderstrapped swords, like the Roman gladius or Spatha is worn

[@MarquisdeL3]

Yep, the Roman gladius is worn with the strap under the belt. It keeps it from flapping around.

[@philw8049]

“If you care about what they did to LOTR”. Don’t forget what they did to The Wheel of Time as well.

[@neoaliphant]

i remember at renactment battles, water bearers would bring out driniing horns, i could have easily gone through several pints on a hot day, so if your larping and fighting, dont underestimate what you might need.....

[@LivingAnachronism]

Absolutely. The need for an immense amount of water after even a short skirmish cannot be understated. So many additional factors, how much gear you're wearing for instance might be a huge shock if you aren't doing conditions in armor.

[@neoaliphant]

@@LivingAnachronism i remember the water bearing women were given instructions to head to the chainmail wearing people first, they were dripping sweat in the heat....

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

Both a canteen and a costrel are a type of bottle. The canteen is specifically a flattened one (often a disc, but can be other shapes, such as the modern rectangular military ones, or the tiny black leather one you have) designed to be carried on your person. The difference between a costrel and a canteen, is that a costrel is a cylinder (or barrel shaped) with the opening on the lateral curved surface, rather than than on the circular part like a modern can. And as you said, typically a costrel is specifically for wine... But humans being humans, would have used it for all sorts of liquids.

[@cookephsh91]

I actually went for a slip knot system on my strap. Allows me to easily adjust the length, and don't have to worry about wearing out the leather over time 11:18

[@jlokison]

My experience is US Military and my current work. This isn't about bottle sizes but more about activity levels, environmental conditions, and water intake requirements. The US army issues everyone a hard shell 1 quart canteen and a 2 quart soft shell canteen, these were both designed during the cold war so that you can twist off the bottle like cap and drink from it that way or flip up a section of the cap and connect your gas masks dringing straw to it in a way that should protect you from NBC contaminants if you do it right. Now I heard that they used to issue more than one of each of them to infantrymen, especially light and airborne so they had 1.5 gallons with them at least. In the early 2000s the US army started issueing 1 gallon camelbacks. This has little to do with bottles and more to do with the fact that a soldier or adventure traveling cross country or along a road for 8 to 10 hours carrying all their gear, weapons and armor, is going to need at least a gallon of water in a temperate environment. Change the temperature or humidity changes these requirements, what a lot of people don't realize is that in very cold environments the humidity bottoms out and you need to maintain hydration to help prevent frost bite and similar conditions. Nonhuman races may have different fluid intake requirements. I'm no longer a soldier but I work in Arizona at a job that often requires me to be outside during the hottest part of the day. On some duty assignments in the middle of summer I go through 1.5 to 2 gallons of water easily. However I'm over 50 and not in the best shape physical fitness wise, these are also factors. Also a reminder that caffeine is a diuretic and that you need more water to offset that.

[@wolfcryerke]

incidentally, when we first started larping, my husband bought a leather bottle and I bought a boda (becaue I tought it fitted better with my character concept). The boda has started to leak some time ago now, while the bottle is still going strong. So confirmed I guess :) I tied the boda closely to my belt off to my side (I have one with iron rings so I can easily tie whatever to it) and it was actually quite convenient when scouting

[@TheLeathersmithShop]

So I'm a leathersmith who sells these, and printable patterns for them. You're definitely right, there isn't a ton of info about the shapes and uses. My best educated guess is that the shape probably had less to do with the liquid you plan to put inside, and more to do with the availability of materials or money. The ones made from 2 pieces of leather could be, and often were, made by anyone who had the leather. It may not have been pretty, but anyone could sew two pieces together, then fill it with sand, and use a stick to pack the sand to get that ballooned shape. Just seal with wax or pitch, and you've got a bottle. The fancier barrel shapes, made from multiple pieces, were likely made by experienced leather crafters and sold. Same difference as many other items throughout time you could diy or buy like bags, shoes, belts, weapons, etc. If the barrels or fancier shapes were known more for holding wine than water, it was probably because they were just made better and more reliable. As far as the holes go, straps and slits would have been easier for everyone. Blacksmith punches would've punched a hole, but it's not the same as a modern hole punch lol. And making the cord round would've just been an annoying extra step, even if you had access to good enough glue and the knowledge to do it. You basically soak thin strips in thinned glued and roll it like you're making a snake with play dough. Most modern cordage has an extra coating, usually paint, to make sure it stays round and looks uniform. Though a lot of modern cordage is actually a leather dust and glue mixture that's extruded like sausage rather than rolled strips. Today's leather is often not what it appears to be haha

[@WatermelonPeppermint]

Have you found the beeswax seal inside melts in heat? I wonder how well it would hold up through sunny trekking.

[@TheLeathersmithShop]

@@WatermelonPeppermint Beeswax melts around 145-150 degrees, so it should be perfectly fine for just about any weather. However, leaving it in a car or next to the fire will definitely result in a bad situation lol.

[@TheMadPoetHimself]

I literally just lost half my water on a hunt due to a leaking bottle before seeing this video lol. I had actually been considering bringing my Bota waterskin, but switched to a metal bottle, because (ironically) I feared the waterskin might leak on my gear. Glad to have ye back!

[@mansfieldtime]

1:40 "Why Are Bottles shaped the way they are?" Honestly this question never accrued to me. To answer what I Believe to be the case is material shape. Butchers, tanners, and leather works all got their income by ensuring the least amount of the animal went to waist. So when presented with the leather they would try to use up as much as they could. Different animals have different shapes as well as the leather on a single animal. Even today companies will hold on to scraps because parts might be salvaged later. But like I said this is my guess.

[@TheDisplacerBeast]

Welcome back, and congrats on the wedding!

[@Jonalith]

So i may have come up with a toggle system for your belt bottle. It is essentially two anchor shaped hooks on a loop of leather that hook on both sides of the belt (through the loop they're attached to). It would be relatively easy to make, as it would just be a leather string and two carved hooks with holes drilled in them and it should be easy to use while still being (relatively) secure.

[@GladstnJones]

I love this topic, hydration is mega important and it's often overlooked in fantasy

[@ryanomalley3705]

Congratulations on getting married buddy, I wish you many fortunes in the years to come!

[@mortenw.3575]

Thanks for another thought-provoking vid. As a follow-up, long-term waterskin maintenance could be an interesting deep dive for any adventurer.

[@sarumano884]

Two things: My understanding of a "Canteen" is that it comes with a built-in cup, which might also act to protect the cork. Otherwise, it's a water bottle or canister (cannister). Second, as a point of interest, SM Stirling's "Island In The Sea Of Time" series has Nantucket Islanders making water bottles by sewing rawhide around 2 litre plastic soda bottles retrieved from the local tip (And thoroughly washed, of course!).

[@zad7768]

Congratulations and many blessings to you. Great to have you back!

[@emmaegtberts8419]

Hi! little bit of conjecture on the strap holes: people used to make holes with an awl (poke a pointy thing through the leather and the leather stretches). However, that can only go up to a certain size, after that the leather tears and will continue to tear if even the slightest bit of force is applied to it. So for bigger holes, people would take two chisels (one for the with, one for the height) to cut rectangular holes, which could even accomodate wider straps (Score!). And as the years went by, technology progressed, and people would be able to curve blades into a circle shape (a.k.a. a hole punch) thus allowing for making larger round holes without running the risk of tearing

[@silverjohn6037]

Reference having to refill your bottle to have enough water for the day just remember that if people were at a source of water they'd drink their fill before leaving it. Your stomach easily can hold about half a day's requirement for water so, as long as the weather wasn't too extreme or you weren't doing anything to strenuous, a 1 quart/liter water bottle would last you the rest of the day. Especially if you know there will be another water source where you camp. Reference the one shape of water bottle that looked like a small barrel this was because they actually had small wooden casks about that size, called hoggins, which were carried as canteens. (Yes the old image of a St. Bernard with a small cask around it's neck was a joke but it was based on real items.) The leather versions were probably made because they would be lighter but in a familiar shape

[@als3022]

I hope you enjoyed Colonial Williamsburg; my aunt used to work there and retired this year. I enjoyed it when I went (Not paying helped as family) And yup some drink from leather. I've tried the tin ones, and the taste is just gross. Never drank from a leather, but my wooden canteen is decent.

[@mansfieldtime]

Congratulations. Hope you both enjoyed everything. Glade you made it back safely, The Community of The Sword missed you. Welcome home.

[@cryptokev1759]

Sam & Frodo reportedly trekked about 1,300 miles to Mordor. They both would be using at least two litre bottles a day for drinking water plus more for cooking breakfast and second breakfast etc! If they carried say 4 bottles each (about 4 litres) they would need to fill it up every day at the very least imo. So refreshing water would actually be a mammoth issue across the bad terrain, they would need to do it every day :O

[@24darush]

I guess 2 litres for a Hobbit are like 4-5 litres for a human, the water ration for a hard days work/walk in medium hot climate... So with 2 litres each they could reach for 2-3 days, if necessary

[@TheAncientAstronomer]

Welcome back Kramer,hopefully you and your wife had a nice honeymoon! 👍 A flask is perfect for divine water,like aqua vita! 😁 Gives one strength and fire! 🍸

[@Glorfindel_117]

Just want to say that I carry a modern metal water bottle about the size of your big one every day. I clip it to a belt loop with a carabiner, and it never gets in my way. You could *easily* put yours at your hip by just putting longer straps on it, so that it hangs *below* your belt line. As you showed when mentioning it at your hip you had it way too high because the holes for the straps were level with the belt. My bottle is at my thigh, and because of that it cant get in the way because any way I move my leg, the bottle falls to one side out of the way. Food for thought.

[@eliabeck689]

I also wear my water bottle about this way, only the carabiner is threaded onto my belt because I don't trust the strength of womens' jeans' belt loops. I concur with you on carrying a water bottle this way; the only time it gets frustrating is when I turn around too fast and the water bottle swings out and hits things.

[@Glorfindel_117]

@@eliabeck689 Yeah people ask me all the time if it's annoying, but you just have to get used to how to move your weight around to control it. Like I can get it to swing either with the leg it's closest to, or in the opposite direction as I walk depending how I shift my weight as I walk, and even making fast turns you can limit it. And Most of my pants have been fine with the belt loops, but I have had to sew a few with extra thread. I leatherwork so my loops have been fixed with 1mm waxed thread thats tied and melted shut so I dont think any of them will be breaking any time soon.

[@DH-xw6jp]

How often does it get in the way of your sword?

[@eliabeck689]

@@DH-xw6jp I don't wear a sword every day, but even if I did it wouldn't be a problem. I'm right-handed, so my sword would be on my left hip, and I wear my water bottle on my right. If it were to get in the way of anything, it'd probably be belt pouches.

[@pkerep1]

Greetings from Croatia !!! Welcome back Kramer.

[@_XR40_]

One advantage of the Bota over the harder bottles: Stealth. Not being rigid, they contract (not really, but you know what I mean) as the water is used - Meaning you don't have water sloshing around making noise. Much easier to sneak past guards...

[@marcusfridh8489]

I have a bota, a souvenir from Spain, that i use and it works good for me

[@JayM409]

I took one on the West Coast trail, and I wish I hadn't. It was a pain to refill in streams. I had to blow it up with air and the submerge it. The water pressure always forced the air out faster than the water could enter, so I could never fill it completely. Only a small waterfall could fill it properly. I only use it when skiing after that.

[@rcasey6030]

Took me by surprise seeing this video pop up, considering I JUST bought my first leather water bottle at a renaissance faire yesterday. It's true though that you don't see them often, which is surprising considering how fundamental they are. The one I got is pretty similar to your 3 cup bottle, being just a little smaller and holding about 2.5 (roughly measured by filling it with a plastic water bottle). It does leak a bit around the cork though, so I'll have to find a solution for that.

[@knightjack]

Welcome back!

[@erikhoff5010]

Just to see if I could, I made a couple of leather bottles, 40 years ago. I learned by trial and error that beeswax is great for use with cold water but not hot water. As a general rule, beer or ale was the common drink as well as wine due to the water being sketchy. Pitch, on the other hand was excellent for sealing water bottles and was good for hot or cold liquids. Pitch is basically boiling tar in its liquid state and will cause severe burns to the skin, and must be handled carefully. I've got some resource material somewhere, I'll try to look it up. Skal

[@LuckySketches]

It might be a good idea to have a 3-point harness, like many versions of Link, and have an attachment point near the armpit for the bottle.

[@nanettesage1112]

What is the process of cleaning the Leather Water Bottle to avoid mould and mildew and other contaminants from growing inside the bottle over time?

[@whadayadoin3300]

I would think the reason they made slits instead of holes is because they probably used leather straps instead of rope.

[@robertjensen1438]

Just some words for the old algorithm.

[@kalaweira]

Thank you! I carried three multiple water bottles on a LARP recently on a hot day and I was constantly battling with the long straps getting tangled. Shortening them, as you suggest looks very helpful. I think the shorter strap will also make it less tiring to carry. Water is heavy: having the weight swing around on what is effectively a long pendulum must use more energy to balance and compensate. I just found your channel and really loving it, thank you!

[@SvRijswijck]

Good to have you back. Good video as always. There are a few sellers at the fairs here in Europe that have them, but they're not at every fair and don't always have a large stock. If you have the skills, make one to your own specifications. If you don't, take time to look for the exact thing you want, it's worth it not wasting a lot of hard earned coin on things you may end up not using.

[@LivingAnachronism]

This is excellent advice right here

[@Sarafimm2]

Getting something professionally made to order is probably the best way to use your money on something like a LARP outfit you plan to use for years or even pass on to family as a momento. We have stuff from our grandparents we really cherish, but my husband absolutely loves the large amount of cookie cutters his aunt would hand make for the various Fairs around the country she traveled to because she could make just about any shape on the spot and often did right before children's (and their parent's) eyes. He says she always had the greatest stories and is one of the reasons he loves RenFaires and tried playing Dungeons & Dragons--which we still play today 35 years later.

[@AdmiralStoicRum]

If you're going to use like a bladder style I would say use like a sheep or goat's stomach some kind of animal stomach to hold the liquid. And if you're interested in your bag to keep it freezing instead of putting it where your chest is put it where your feet go. You're less likely to burst it and if it does burst only your feet get wet

[@NevisYsbryd]

Big caveat, leather bottles were largely used in what is now the United Kingdom. In Scandinavia and the continental mainland, the principle materials were hollowed and dried calabash, wood, ceramic, or metal. The French actually ridiculed the English over the use of leather drinking vessels, saying 'they drank from their boots'. However, leather liquid containers were used in West Asia and were popular, for example, among the Ottoman Turks. These containers were frequently used for beer or ale, and not necessarily water. Canteens, costrels, and the like were also used less than you might expect. People then travelled less than they did today and traveled largely by foot; as most of the population was also tied up in agriculture, they were usually close to their house or business center where large amounts of water were kept, making portable water a concern far less of the time. Soldiers appear to have been primarily reliant on baggage train and base camp logistics over water rather than personal carry. We see them a lot on pilgrims, occasionally on soldiers, and not all that much elsewhere.

[@NevisYsbryd]

As far as shapes, there are multiple effects, although aesthetic was certainly also a major factor. The shape affects how quickly and how stable the water is coming out of the bottle. A verticle cylinder will pour the liquid out quickly and strongly, easily losing control and splashing. The horizontal barrel-shape will pour more slowly and a bit more controlled, and require a steeper angle relative to the ground to pour anything out at all. These also affect the rate of air coming into the bottle, which affects how smoothly the liquid flows versus how much it shloshes in waves. Some historical bottles (eg, some winebottles) were specifically shaped to make it come in spurts and produce a gurgling sound while airating the wine; it tends to be a bit more messy, though. Take your pick. The size of the neck and cork have similar properties; the longer and thinner the neck is, the more it literally bottlenecks the flow of liquid. Canteens are specifically flattened.

[@lonelystrategos]

Does the leather affect the taste of the water when compared to glass bottles for example? To me, it feels like water tastes worse from a plastic bottle than a glass one, so I wonder if there's a notable change in taste with leather.

[@Realgar-J]

That varies from bottle to bottle, often you won't have water touching the leather directly, so any potential aftertaste would depend on how the leather was coated or sealed He briefly touches on this towards the beginning of the video

[@wren7195]

Bee's wax sealant definitely affects the taste, but it's unique. You sound like me, a borderline super-taster, if you can taste the different "flavours" of water (brand, distilled vs spring, etc) and the effects of their container. I personally don't find it horrid, but it'll be up to you!

[@NevisYsbryd]

If properly made, mildly, though ultimately, yes.

[@brucelee3388]

The leather has to be lined with something, it should be 'Brewer's Pitch', a pine resin derivative that can be dated back before the 10th Century CE - it used to be used to line wooden beer kegs before stainless kegs became common. You can also get modern acrylic water tank liner which shouldn't have a taste since it supposed to be for drinking water

[@PhoenicopterusR]

​​@@wren7195 I think that speaks more on your taste than on their taste. I'll be the first to admit that my taste buds are okay at best, but water from a plastic bottle tastes like it. Then again, you also have to consider that smell is a significant portion of taste, and a glass bottle won't smell.

[@AfricanTransplant39]

Welcome back! I hope the wedding and ensuing honeymoon were lovely and relaxing!

[@deaultusername]

For staying in place, look for a type of water bottle called a Flacket. It has a flat or curved backside designed to sit close to the wearer with the other dish shaped side being the water volume.

[@AudraT]

I've been to Old Williamsburg I think three times now! I've got family in Virginia. I love Williamsburg, both the olde time shopping area and the newer shopping area. Their bookstore is rather nice and there's this fine men's clothing store that we all just drool over. It's like the gentleman's gentleman's clothing store.

[@onexkiss]

You were right across the river from me!!! So happy you enjoyed Colonial Williamsburg

[@JayM409]

The small bottles can be used to carry small amount of alcohol. Metatron has experimented with Posca and finds a ratio of 6:1 for water/alcohol makes a refreshing drink. Alcohol can help with disinfecting suspect water. They can also be used for carrying olive oil for cooking or for use in lamps. When I was in the army I always carried a 2nd canteen, even though we were only issued one (surplus store buy). I eventually purchased a 2 quart collapsible canteen which I attached to my pack. Extra water is also needed in winter as sweating and loss of water through breathing can lead to dehydration. We were issued thermos bottles for winter, with an insulating case. Some carried coffee or tea, but I just carried warm water. The present day army has thermoses the same size and shape as the canteen so they will fit into the canteen case. The differing shapes of bottles may be due to where they are used. On a ship a tall bottle will tip over easily, spilling its contents. That is less likely to happen with a short, squat bottle.

[@Sawtooth44]

dont you mean in the summer?

[@PhoenicopterusR]

​@@Sawtooth44 No, trust me, they mean winter. It's very easy to get dehydrated in the winter.

[@mailleweaver]

I'd imagine that another influence on the size of bottles is the size of material they had. "What can I make with these scraps of leather left over from another project? Well, one can never have too many bottles."

[@defaultytuser]

The merchandise sponsor bit was *SNEAK 100* Love your stuff

[@SpiderboyN2Jesus]

My biggest concern with a leather water bottle is whether it's insulated (I would assume not). I really need my water to be cold. *Especially* in hot weather, but regardless, I have trouble drinking water that isn't quite cool. I have a couple nice insulated metal water bottle that keep liquid *very* well (and hot liquids, as well, but not quite as long). I often put ice water in them on a hot day. They're a bit too cold at first but by the time I really need water, the ice has melted enough that I just have reasonably cold water, but not actual ice water 😅. I *love* those bottles so much. I can put refrigerated water run them, leave them sitting in the hot sun for an hour or two, and while the outside it a bit hot to the touch (it's got some kind of black powder coating that keeps it from getting to hot to touch) on the outside, but the water is still quite cool on the inside! My main concern with a leather water bottle is that it would get warm very quickly 😬. I'd rather just cover one of my metal bottles in such a way that it looks like your cylindrical bottle. These bottle of mine aren't that heavy on their own, so I don't think it would make a huge difference. The overwhelming majority of the weight will be from the water regardless, anyway 😅🤷🏻‍♂️.

[@deespaeth8180]

Every time I go to Ren faires, comics conventions and such like I mention waterskin to the vendors. I'd love to have one for Lotr convention here in Kentucky.

[@Seriously_Unserious]

When it comes to Frodo and Sam's journey in LotR, I'd also assume they do refills "off camera" as we don't see every second of every day told to us by Tolkien. So I'd use the on camera refills used more as a guide as to how frequently they SEEM to be filling them rather then a literal number.

[@cameronshackelford5551]

Welcome back i hope your break was as fantastic as it was well deserved!

[@theworldofcronis]

Welcome back, hope you had a great time (I'm sure you did, but still... :) ) As always, excellent informative video.

[@fpassow1]

I love the journey/scouting/battle gear breakdown! 🙂

[@Kargoneth]

Thanks for coming back, Kramer. Hope you and your wife had a lovely honeymoon! Water bottles, eh? I drink copious amounts of water while hiking. I always end up running out. Metabolizing carbohydrates produces water and things like vegetables contain a lot of water.

[@PhilipLichty]

Welcome back I’m so happy you hade a great time on your honeymoon

[@Justin_Black]

Welcome back Kramer. Good to see your excited face again. 🫡

[@LivingAnachronism]

Thanks Justin!

[@trex6052]

Hey I live in Williamsburg it’s cool that you went here growing up here in elementary school we went on a field trip to Colonial Williamsburg every year

[@Jim-nx7ty]

Regarding bottle shape.... if you notice gin is sold in square bottles. There was a frenzy among the Dutch (and the English, among others) who really, really liked gin. and they would ship it from the Low Countries out to the colonies in India and the Dutch East Indies. To maximize the amount of liquor, they used the square bottles because they packed into a case tighter and took up less space. The bota had that shape because animals stomachs were used as liners inside two sides of leather to mimic the shape of the lining.

[@Centaur255]

KRAMER'S BACK! And great video - something I've been thinking about for Renn Faires and the like, as I currently have to carry a diaper bag, water bottle, and 2yo at the same time

[@koticneutralftw7016]

Have you collected any data on the weights of some of your adventuring gear? I've played D&D for years, and the equipment tables have always intrigued me. "Oh really? A water skin weighs 5lbs? Does it?" I'd be curious to know what some of these leather vessels weigh before and after being filled.

[@LivingAnachronism]

Great idea for a topic!

[@danijelandroid]

I think the reason why leather bottles have different shapes might be because of pieces of lether was available.

[@Largo01]

Welcome back, mate. Good to see you again.

[@mathewcoppola8622]

Glad to see you're back. Hope the wedding well.

[@miculdac4671]

The leather wine bottles might have a shorter carrying strrap because you werent supposed to be drinking from them on the go. From the looks of the straps they had it looked quite tedious to untie them and tie them back on on the go. My assumption is that they were meant to be something you drank whenever you sat down and didnt really need to havhe the belt on, or had the gime to take it off your belt and enjoy the wine. Meanwhile the longer straps on the water bottle would make it a lot easier to access while on horseback or while marching.

[@neoaliphant]

or hook over a donkey/goat packsaddle.....

[@miculdac4671]

@@neoaliphant True but if they that small to only hold 4 cups idk if they would bother hooking it. If they were holding around 2-4 liters of liquid then yeah, its not very pheasable for someone to carry that all day on a belt

[@lilyandrose8557]

I agree that wine or mead would be an accompaniment to a meal, a nice luxury to end the day or substitute for dodgy water 💦 for having with the evening meal. I don’t see people slogging it down while journeying, unless they were particularly dissipated and lacking in judgement. You make yourself vulnerable with alcohol

[@paulschmidtakaboerne692]

Vielen Dank für dieses Video! Bild und Ton finde ich gut. Spontan für eher mittelalterliche Schlachten fallen mir natürlich Sterling Bridge (nicht die bei "Braveheart". gezeigte, sondern die mit der tatsächlichen Brücke😊) ein sowie Stamford Bridge, Hastings und Clontarf. Dabei fällt Dir sicher mein Hang zur nordischen Geschichte auf. Alles Gute und bleib auch gesund!

[@Joyride37]

So I'm in the military and I'm curious what your take would be for LARPing journeying kit, scouting kit, and fighting kit in detail. As well a a possible video on historic field hygiene because I haven't seen that talked about yet. Staying clean in the field is a whole process just with modern conveniences like baby wipes (i.e. saving the potable water for drinking or brushing teeth. Body cleaning is usually done with baby wipes once in the morning and at night, and then sunscreen / moisturizer to protect skin from UV and drying out, at least on the face. At least for people who actually do field hygiene because plenty of nasties do not or just don't have the materials due to running out or lack of prep).

[@cryptokev1759]

12:57 You are damn right sir! lol

[@shellnet411]

What I would think the different shapes would be since it's people who didn't have as much money we're doing it as well would be the lower your place in society was your water bottle would be more irregular because you'd be using scraps of leather, and they work them into a bottleI think the weird shapes would be from something being made from scraps from making other things like those are the soles of the shoes they're rounded. They cut out chew leather and they got that one with the sides. It would make the most sense to my brain, just as a logical point of view.

[@christopheraufdengarten1177]

I've been wanting to make one of these since I saw Skilltree's video about a leather bottle, and this has really given me more of a push to actually go out and get the materialsfor one of these.

[@embee7434]

Welcome back. Also, I just love he intro and extro music. ❤

[@possumwithaswitchblade]

I sell leather goods at the ren faire, but would hesitate to sell leather bottles because, traditionally, they are sealed with beeswax, which means the customer would eventually need to re-seal the bottle, and most people would not want to mess around with that, so you might end up with a lot of complaints down the road about bottles starting to leak. Was your bottle sealed with wax, and did the seller provide you with instruction about re-sealing it in the future? I would be interested to know if people have other good materials for sealing them with. I think that a food-safe epoxy, which works for sealing drinking horns, would be too brittle for sealing a leather bottle.

[@LivingAnachronism]

This is a good point, thank your for sharing your experience. All my bottles that are sealed with beeswax did come with resealing instructions if memory serves, and I usually buy beeswax from a hobby lobby fairly easily. My newest bottle is sealed with brewers pitch, and I definitely don't know how to reseal that (yet) though I also believe all my bottles came with a "resealing service" so you could send the bottle back to the maker one way or another to have it resealed.

[@Victor-dm4qv]

Still really happy for you. This was also a fun video. Cannot think of anything I could add to this topic, so I will just tip my imaginary hat and say thank you for this video!

[@LivingAnachronism]

Thanks Victor

[@zun-viik]

I always assumed that they had their shape because they used a stick or log in the shapeing and hardening process. Also, water skins(floppy lether) have been used historically. I do agree, I think it's a personal preference/style. I like the look the floppy ones, but you did compare a really cheap (floppy again) one to a pretty nice hard leather one. Now I gotta be on the the look out for good quality water skins.

[@FiltyIncognito]

When trying to figure out design choices, goods can typically be placed within 3 categories, and they tend to give you a good idea and the how and why. The three categories are: Daily Necessity, Investment and Luxury. Daily Necessities tend to dominated by an economical manufacturing, and a utility design that is 'good enough'. That's pretty much the culmination of a vendor who wants to make a profit and a buyer with budgetary constraints just trying to live their life. An Investment is a product that'll help people make more money, so the allocated budget tends to gravitate around the most efficient return on the money spent. What that means is more expensive materials, more material, more processing, and better quality processing. Whatever the product needs to be the most efficient tool for the job. And a Luxury good is obviously what it sounds like. No expense spared to for the product to be as pleasing as possible. Of course, there is a bit of a large gap between what you can expect for middle and upper class luxury goods, but upper class luxury goods can typically be ignored because they tend to verge into the impractical and absurd, and are most definitely a rarified item in whatever society or century they come from. In many cases they're just a curios of the whims of some shmuck with too much wealth. For the first two categories, to investigate you need to look into the technology, methods, jobs and lifestyles of the times to figure things out. For the last, it's important to look up culture and fashion, which is typically just the current flavor of aesthetic that expresses wealth, power and personal ability with a healthy serving of art.

[@Fuzzycat16]

Welcome back Adventurers.

[@RichardT2112]

Hey! Great to see you back online!

[@CreepyMF]

Welcome back, its good to see you again 😀

[@ya-silly-goose623]

Here with some knowledge for you. I just got done doing my own deep dive into old waterskins and wineskins, looking for a new and useful type to buy today. Firstly, I concluded that Las Tres XXX is probably the brand to go with, from Spain. I learned that the original term is waterskin and wineksin. Once they started making them into smaller sizes and not whole skins from goats, they started using them with wine or water interchangeably. But most kept one for wine only, because it expands and such from the fermentation if it's new wine. Also, the prime water or wineskins is likely the Bota bag. Las Tres XXX makes very fine examples. There's the standard shape, but also there is a shape made for mining. It's the curved one that resembles a weird bean. It sits on the hip best, they don't slosh because of their design and make, and you don't hate to raise it up as high gh in order to drink from it. It can also be shared amongst folks, because the opening has a tight hole for shooting out like a sports water bottle (you sheaaze the goatskin), plus a wide mouth for refilling.

[@ya-silly-goose623]

And the shape was derived from a goats bladder originally

[@ya-silly-goose623]

Oh boy, I typo'd a lot. And my KZbin online on my phone won't let me edit

[@eraphtasofstet8645]

Welcome back Kramer!

[@Dan964917]

It would be neat to see an episode on wooden canteens too (if they're even historical?) or things like gourds would be interesting as well!

[@BingleFlimp]

Just curious, when we're talking about "waterproofing" in terms of leather. Does the extra third layer of leather stop the bottle from losing water at the seams or does it also prevent water from permeating through the leather? I only ask because if you make the bottle less waterproof then you could get additional benefits. If you get a leather container for water that sweats, then it could be useful for providing cool water in warm climates through "evaporative cooling". The Spanish "botijo" is an example of this, however in that case it's made out of porous clay.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

Leather bottles are typically already sealed on the inside and seams with a type of pitch or beeswax. Having an extra layer for waterproofing when it's already waterproofed wouldn't really be necessary.

[@krulllenbol]

Love the video! Welcome back, hope your honeymoon was great! I have a question; I own a small flask/waterskin much like the black one you show at 8.56. The wooden cork has mold on it, after I've only used it once, and cleaned it well. Any suggestions how to clean it well? Got no instructions at the renfair stall I got it at. Thanks in advance!

[@LivingAnachronism]

So, given mold can potentially cause illness, I'm not giving advice, I'm saying what I would do, risk is up to you. I'd start by soaking it in a strong spirit alcohol for maybe an hour. Thr wood may end up having a stain, even if the mold is dead. If I wanted to get rid of that, I may sand down the wood a bit. But I would probably, if the mold is bad, try to make or buy a new one. KZbin is your friend for projects like this. Good luck!

[@brucelee3388]

If you decide to replace the cork, have a look around restaurants and bars (or just ask) for champagne corks - even better are Spanish cider corks which are composite and slightly denser. Just carve or sand the cork down to fit. When the flask is empty take the cork out, leave it hanging on its cord and let it air dry.

[@krulllenbol]

@@LivingAnachronism Thank you for the advice! Some larp websites advice to clean a flask with water and vinegar. I'll give it a try. Thanks again!😊

[@krulllenbol]

@@brucelee3388 Thanks for the advice!

[@banditb86]

Welcome back and congratulations !

[@clintcarpentier2424]

"Humans need 8 cups a day..." That study didn't state you had to drink that much, and the faithful touters of said study have evangelized academic nonderstandings of biology. The study states that much of those 8 cups will come from the food one eats. It doesn't take into account showering, bathing, swimming, etc, in which your body absorbs moisture by virtue of being wet. Likewise, the less clothing you wear on hot dry days, the more moisture you lose to evaporation; thus the more you need to drink. Notice desert dwellers still cover themselves head to toe. On a side tangent. You don't want to "ruin" your canteen with dirty water. Learning the process to purify water when traveling is a very important skill for regular travelers. That is to say, boiling the water and filtering it before bottling it. On an added note. Caffeine forces your body to urinate; if you wanna test this, get yourself some coka-cola extra caffeine (it's a blast). This is a good thing in the general sense, in that your body relieves itself of toxin build-up (a well hydrated body expels clear urine; toxins yellow it). But if you are traveling, and you are unsure of the distance between watering holes, pissing becomes a concern; therefore, having coffee in your kit, should be viewed with the same circumspect as having booze in your flask.

[@Saber64]

Welcome back, Kramer. You were missed

[@LuxisAlukard]

Renaissance fair, 2025 "That one, my good sir, is flask type 7 of Kramer's typology. It's perfect recreation of a flask found on Mary Rose."

[@WARobertsonMMII]

Commenting for the algorithm, sorry I’m late but it’s good to have you back!

[@LivingAnachronism]

Replying for the algorithm. Thank you!

[@lostboy8084]

There is probably a lot of thought of why make it certain shapes. 1. Method of transportation. If you are carrying it in a females Handbag, a horse saddle, 2. What is used for. The shape will determine the rate of liquid exiting 3. Hand sizes females and children would have smaller hands so the grip will be smaller 4. Familiar shape. Something not thought about is bottles tend to resemble roughly human shape ever see a narrow hip bottles 😂

[@MG.50]

Botas "in the old days" were made from a sheep's stomach, thus the shape. Oiled, waxed, brewer's pitch, bees wax, etc were all used over historic time. You might research periods when each was used, as technologies changed.

[@thymeandspace110]

I don't know about Frodo and Sam's water bottles, but in Fellowship there are references to "leather flasks" of miruvor, the liquor of Rivendell. So I think it's likely the bottles were made of leather, too.

[@markfergerson2145]

The bota is obviously of Spanish origin, ant the word bota is also used to describe a particular style of short boot, or a knee high chap meant to convert shoes to boots for riding horses through brush. The water bottle allegedly got its name because it looked like a boot to someone. I have heard, but have no source, that the name was derived from an Arabic term during the “moorish” occupation of Spain. Costrel comes from Old French, in turn from a Latin word for drinking cup. Bottle comes from Latin buttes which means wineskin. Etymology only gets us so far though due to cross cultural exchange. These days a bota is a water bottle is a costrel regardless of shape, near as I can tell. Speaking of shape, you showed an image of a water bottle that looked kind of like an axe head. My first thought was that it was made from s raps left over after a hide was used for another project, but it could also just be the style when it was made. I don’t know the shape of Roman wineskins. I don’t know the shape of ancient Arab water bottles. I am sure there are examples in museums, and some conservator is probably willing to talk about such things for hours.

[@musikSkool]

I would look into the most common cuts of leather that hunters, tanners and butchers did, and see if there was an optimal way to use the most common cuts. For example, what shape of bottle would you get from a leg that was cut off a deer? How about an animal cutting guide for hunters?

[@issinho]

Welcome back!!!