Advice on Quicksketch, Pencil Control, Bargue, Style, and Teaching - Draftsmen S2E05

Marshall and Stan take a break from recreating art school to answer some of your voicemails! There’s advice on practicing quicksketch, pencil control, the value of the Bargue method, caring about what people think of your work, changing styles, and advice to aspiring teachers.
Questions asked in this episode:
0:00 - Banter
4:51 - What you should I focus on when practicing quicksketch?
20:08 - Advice on caring what people think of your work.
29:31 - What are your thoughts on the Bargue Drawing Course?
34:43 - What’s your advice for becoming an art teacher at a highschool level or higher?
43:37 - How can I improve my line quality and pencil control?
52:13 - How do I break out of my current style and develop a new one?
Show Links (some contain affiliate links)
Jeff Watts - proko.com/draftsmen-media/jef...
Steve Whitehead - proko.com/draftsmen-media/ste...
Preston Blair - amzn.to/2WfRTDX
Bridgman books that flash on screen:
Drawing the Draped Figure - amzn.to/2yFgwAU
Heads, Features and Faces - amzn.to/3dsBEsP
The Book of a Hundred Hands - amzn.to/2WI3Lh1
Bridgman’s Life Drawing - amzn.to/3bhiHb8
The Human Machine - amzn.to/3bgill5
Constructive Anatomy - amzn.to/3bdgQUR
Bridgman’s Complete Guide to Drawing from Life 5th Edition - amzn.to/3be9kc3
Figure Fundamentals Course - proko.com/figure
Subscribe to Marshall’s Newsletter for Info on Bridgman course - MarshallArt.com/subscribe
Michelle Don Vito - donvitodesign.com
Charles Bargue Drawing Course - amzn.to/2YLydtb
Stephen Bauman - proko.com/bauman
Robert Beverly Hale’s intro to Paul Richer’s Artistic Anatomy - amzn.to/3bkyOoi
Rockwell on Rockwell, How I Make a Picture by Norman Rockwell - amzn.to/2zjnprA
Thomas Eakins - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_...
Howard Pyle - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_...
Steve Huston - www.nma.art/instructors/steve...
Glenn Vilppu - www.nma.art/instructors/glenn...
Rendering in Pen and Ink by Arthur Guptill - amzn.to/2Lpw9zn
Will Elder - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Elder
“Draftsmen” is available in audio. Subscribe on these platforms to keep up to date:
Spotify: bit.ly/DraftsmenPodSp
Stitcher: bit.ly/2JLMShh
Apple: bit.ly/DraftsmenPodA
Google: bit.ly/DraftsmenPodG
#figuredrawing #artstyle #pencilcontrol
FOLLOW PROKO:
Marshall's Art - www.marshallart.com
Email Newsletter- www.proko.com/subscribe
Instagram - / stanprokopenko
Twitter - / stanprokopenko
Facebook - / prokotv
Tumblr - / stanprokopenko
Pinterest - / stanprokopenko
ABOUT DRAFTSMEN
Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff are art instructors. If you love the arts, particularly the craft of drawing and painting and image-making… and you want to level up your skills or even make a living with your skills, we are here to answer your questions. We’re here to offer you advice, refer you to our resources, share your love of the craft and maybe inspire you! Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff - www.marshallart.com. Subscribe to the podcast at bit.ly/DraftsmenPod
CREDITS:
Hosts - Stan Prokopenko (www.stanprokopenko.com), Marshall Vandruff (www.marshallart.com/)
Production Assistance - Charlie Nicholson ( / shloogorgh , Sean Ramsey (www.peoplewhodrawstuff.com), Katrina Collins (www.katrinacollins.com)
Editing - Charlie Nicholson, Katrina Collins
Audio Engineer - Charlie Nicholson
Intro Animation - Cody Shank (codyshank.com/)
Intro Jingle - Tommy Rush ( / tommyrush )
Music Used with Permission Intro - The Freak Fandango Orchestra

[@Draftsmen]

Submit your art questions by leaving a voicemail at 1-858-609-9453 or by recording an audio clip and emailing it to [e-mail]

[@KiX-K4T13]

That was another Katie who called in, not me! I'm far too shy. I'm more quiet and absorbent of info. I ask questions sometimes, sure...but this podcast makes really good points and I often gets answers before I even need to ask. Thanks again guys! Another great episode with the cool guys 😁

[@mangaman6872]

Hey , when is marshall going to release his perspective course.??? Dude. It's been 6 years since u first talked about it ?? 😂😂

[@karlaceciliamc]

I will definitely do that. I did not know the mail option.

[@gz6076]

I didn't know that. Does it have to be an audio clip? I wrote the e-mail :'(

[@Hindu9054]

wtf was thumbnail.good one. love from india

[@maxpitchkites]

Marshall sounds like he could be the voice of a cartoon bear who offers sagely advice to misguided young artists.

[@johnrogstad1278]

Re-watch A Christmas Story and try to pretend the narrator isn't Marshall ;)

[@pedrohugovilanova9410]

Oh Marshall you're just perfect

[@KiX-K4T13]

He's really wise and kinda cool, my friend. Reminds me of my own dad. Always trying to impart some wisdom on me...I pretend I'm not listening, but I am.

[@azalea1404]

I have a crush on Marshall. He has such a wonderful personality. Wise, experienced, an expert in his field / craft, fun, always positive and happy, kind, helpful, handsome, warmhearted - what more to wish for in a man?

[@kbanks5754]

I don't know about art parents, but Marshall is basically the dad I want.

[@13igorsm]

You know what ,maybe proko deservs more love, his debates with Marshal are always with respect

[@krioluditera4384]

I agree, I think he's just trying to help Marshall to express more of his own opinon specially when he's contracdited and not just agreeing to what Stan says and not going back on his argument with more insights. I like the relationship between them.

[@boatrabbitchannel4630]

Marshall, It has been almost 20 years since I attended your class in CSUF. You haven't aged a bit. I still get that sense of calm listening to your voice. thank you for showing up Online.

[@fvsander7766]

I don't think "forcing" an argument will certainly make it better, because one of the joys of this podcast is to see/listen you two engane in a nice and friendly conversation. Of course sometimes you guys have very similar opinions, or deviate in some topics, and in the pros and cons of going to art school you were basicaly in the same side, but I don't think it's bad because both of your life experiences made you think like that. In this specific topic I think it was great, because I don't think art schools have that gigantic value some people think (speacilly in my area: drawing and painting), I had a very bad experience too and I think it was great talking about art schools in a realistic way, not the fairy tale I heard inside there. Anyway, it enriches the discussion when you have different views on a subject and as Stan said, arguing with respect and friendship makes it great, and even greater when the argument is sincere. Thanks as always for the show. Greeting from Portugal

[@lydiagrace1133]

If you want to could you give me a run down of your own experience?

[@ladidadida0]

it's hilarious how Marshall wants to redo life as a graphic designer when i want to escape being one...On a side note, would love to hear him talk more about graphic design

[@j_alamomusic9604]

Why do you want to escape it?

[@luminosity01]

Brother, is that you?

[@cahierdepluie9590]

graphic design seems so interesting, if you don't mind, what do you desire to escape from? :))

[@nostunas]

I feel you! I've been a fairly successful graphic designer for the past 5 years and I've picked up drawing this year, because I'm so tired of working only digital all the time. I don't hate the job by any means, just really need something more "analogue" and being creative with different tools. Also, I believe that getting better at draftsman and illustration would be a fantastic addition to anyone's GD skills.

[@spectral_laughter]

​@@nostunas Currently on a traditional art journey myself for the same reasons. Godspeed!

[@sandyxavier7093]

Hi guys, my main reason for continuing to watch Draftsmen is the 'arguments' which to me are more like robust 'discussions' in which you both explore the pros and cons of art related issues. I particularly like Stan's pragmatic interjections because they lead to clarification of the matter and much useful additional information - please don't stop 'arguing' !!!. This recent Q&A podcast and the one before on how to structure an art course have been brilliant - packed with really helpful information and excellent advice, much valued by this antipodean watcher!

[@ethonica]

Marshall singing is always the highlight of every Draftsmen episode. 😊

[@loganwilliams7121]

Marshall’s singing makes my day. Great podcast!!

[@chloe3053]

i know its an art podcast but i'd love to hear these two talk about their lives more, maybe a different podcast where they just chill

[@Lishtenbird]

The silent majority here actually loves listening to you two guys banter :D You make a great podcast duo, the difference in experience and life views always drives your conversations forward, and, as we know... "truth is born in argument", so ;)

[@nd5944]

Marshall's voice is like the voice that was narrating whatever you were watching when your teacher would roll that TV into class on a friday afternoon

[@darkbornelines4587]

Gonna watch this later, just wanted to drop in and say that thumpnail is fire

[@thaumana8489]

Are there really people who got annoyed by Stan when his opinion differs from Marshall's view? Sad to hear. I can always relate to both arguments and I'm always enjoying the discussion whether I agree with them or not. Comparing personal experiences with each other and questioning you own argumentation can be beneficial to gain a new perception or expanding one's knowledge. This kind of conversation helps to understand their mindset better since they also have to elaborate. This enriching down to earth communication is what I truly enjoy about this podcast. The funny side blows by both is the cherry on the cake.

[@lulamidgeable]

Nah, they need to disagree and do it very respectfully. They have had different paths to their careers. I love them as a duo and learn useful stuff every show.

[@DeanFusaro]

I didn’t realize until now that Marshall’s web cam has a beautiful composition he is use perspective to have all the lines point to him such as the widow and the book shelf. And the window open behind him is very cinematic.

[@scarlet8078]

This is interesting. I thought most atelier-trained artists went though the Bargue series at some point. I like Bridgeman for figure drawing, but Barque reminds me of the classical "draw from the busts" that you're taught in many private schools. It just teaches you to draw what you see, but I also found it useful for certain body parts, especially simplifying ears & feet

[@zacharyhorvath3615]

Aw-I love you Stan (you too Marshal)- screw anyone who thinks otherwise- discovering your podcast has improved my life a lot and given me something positive to look forward to each week. Also, the question regarding line quality/holding the pen was really interesting for me to hear-Im 32 and I’ve been drawing seriously since my early teens, and it’s crazy how easy I take the confidence of my hand eye coordination for granted-it’s one of those things that I just developed from repeated practice at a young age, and have dismissed as really having much to do with knowing how to draw decently. I was actually doing a pretty intricate pen sketch while I listened, and looking down to see all these varying lines, hatches, short whipped strokes etc...kind of let me ease up on myself. But to the guy who asked the question; yes, much like chords on a guitar become second nature to a musician with lots of practice, holding your pen and pencil will become easier as well, and it’s worth the struggle, as drawing will really start to open your eyes and change your perception as to how you observe the world

[@Guythatyoudontknow]

lord i can never get over marshalls singing

[@astrol4b]

I'm doing the bargues plates, I see them like an advanced "drawing on the right side of the brain" they don't explicitly teach you to draw from imagination but I hope you can use the skill acquired as a foundation, after all both van Gogh and Picasso used them to learn and Gerome, co-author, did impressive fantasy like paintings like diogenes or gladiators in the coliseum.

[@senseofwonder0]

Lol, don't worry Proko, we LOVE Marshall, but there's space in our hearts for you too. You might not be as effortlessly delightful, but you're growing on us 😂😂

[@carloslabanda5402]

I feel you guys argue enough, I mean u have always defended your own opinions, and in a respectful way so Im happy with the argue level of the podcast. Probably will be artificial to argue too much. Im remembering the "dont choose babies as your parents" that was fun and natural.

[@deborahgonzalezknight168]

they are very artificial.

[@carloslabanda5402]

@@deborahgonzalezknight168 do u mean very Art-tificial?

[@PeterHenrichsen]

To me, it's just like Christmas, when I discover a new episode! Thanks, Marshall, thanks, Stan! all best from Copenhagen, Denmark, Europe - Peter

[@atriiio4244]

Stan, You have made a difference. You helped alot of people in their art journey.

[@yobeenocreative6984]

I like both of your personalities and how they bounce off each other. It's humorous, and still constructive :D It's ALL good.

[@katmalazarte2964]

I just love Stan and Marshall! They are like my big brother and father helping me navigate my way through life and art world.

[@mikepelosi9877]

MARSHALL. All I have to say about your Bridgeman course is.....TAKE MY MONEY. I'm taking one now at Watts online and it would be very, very cool to have you expand on it with your style. Again: Take my money, now.

[@serlymarton]

I just love that you are linking everything in description you were talking about! Thank you!

[@RICE-lq1zc]

Hello Draftsmen! I listen to this podcast on Spotify and waited for the video to drop so I could comment. I really appreciate the advice you guys have shared on this podcast, especially since I live in a country with absolutely no art school. I am also struggling with finding my style, but I got one of the best advice from one of Steve Huston's classes on portraits about experimenting and just grinding through the process, until something clicks, and even then, I don't think you should stop there. Keep going, the first good one is hardly ever the best, may take a year, may take 25. Also, studying your favourite masters, and trying to mimic their style, but not just your favourite, also look at the works of famous Masters you DON'T like, because they're masters, so they must have done something right! And you may find something in common with all of them and may came to get a fresher understanding of what art is as an expression. eventually your art style may just be a mural of every thing you've been exposed to your whole life, which is pretty much what art style is.

[@KiX-K4T13]

Well said! I think you're really gathering a lot from your inspirations and always thirst for more, no matter how dry it is where you live. Find ways to connect to communities. It sounds silly, but get an Instagram and connect to that world. Lots of good artists there. I would say deviantart is good too, but there's lots of porn on there too. (Not kink shaming because the body is beautiful, BUT I'm making a comic that kids might read...and no way in hell am I going to manipulate innocence like that.)

[@kichanel8959]

stan’s smile and laugh is just everything 💞

[@Dontbother_mike]

Man I really hope the algorithm reacts and throws your channel through the roof

[@lisafred1362]

Proko is an amazing teacher. All teachers should learn from how he teaches.

[@Magicme79]

Marshall: “bloodlust has risen within me!” TIL bloodlust makes Marshall giggly. Because of course it does :D

[@g.e.whitman]

having marshall and stan in different rooms with the editing and everything, something about it, the comedic timing just hits harder.

[@isaiahtee9846]

i love draftsmen!

[@ThePatarisca]

This is easily my favorite podcast! You guys are great!! love from Portugal

[@amindfuckingusername]

The Twilight saga in the background - you are such a fangirl Stan! . (I loved it too though)

[@ujjwalraisolidakiba9737]

i really like the debates and how Proko and Marshall always present different perspectives on a topic and keep it fun and refreshing

[@anzolomyer4584]

Excellent. Best episode of this season thus far. Thank you.

[@reybalderstone]

You two are the kings of analogies. It's so much easier to wrap my head around a topic with analogies and examples and it helps me absorb 200% more information.

[@anthonypc1]

Really loving these new labeled segments in the timeline 👍🏼

[@christinas3757]

This conversation on art education has been one of my favorite topics from you two! Along with teaching middle school and high school art, I just taught a college prep class. This dialogue has been a very helpful, and these are definitely conversation I will be discussing with my students! I am all for cultivating an intrinsic love for learning, whether it leads my students to earn a degree or not.

[@weinstocksart6155]

Best pod cast out there thank you guys so much!

[@compoflask6262]

the question at 20:08 and the responses that followed have been my favourite part of the entire podcast thus far, I loved it

[@queenblackdiva]

I love listening to your podcast while drawinggg!

[@AishInTheHouse]

40:55 lolol Marshall is too cute xD xD

[@leosabat4636]

that face deserves to be save for future generations

[@thejakobistable]

Wasnt to hyped about this Q&A but the questions were so fu*king good and I really appreciated the answers. Great episode

[@larissapaiva6701]

OMG I love that podcast, I love you, guys, keep the wonderful work ♡

[@jessinajana]

I am so excited for this Bridgeman online course you are working on, Marshall! I will definitely take it.

[@onesexyvegan5902]

hey proko just wanted to say I personally see you as a great inspiration and you've helped me immensely along my artistic endeavors, I wouldn't be nowhere near where I am without your channel! In regards to the podcast you are a great sort of counterpart to the podcast in its entirety and it wouldn't be nearly as good without your contribution or Marshall's for that matter. just wanted to do this because I feel you don't enough love in these comments.

[@claramello6282]

I like it when you argue bc even though your advices are always good it shows that it is not the only way to do things

[@kikoeart3021]

lol, we love you too Stan! Keep this up, you guys are my favorite podcast I learn so much and enjoy all the arguing as well as agreeing!

[@kavalkahn]

Marshall want to go back to the ring, that's 2020 ladies and gentleman! Also, can't wait for your Bridgeman project. Don't be mean to Marshall, Stan!

[@geraldmanansala8539]

I love the Bridgman stuffs! Really helpful since im starting to study it now.

[@johnrogstad1278]

The banter is the best part!

[@luckysubscriber754]

Thanks for always providing good content It's very helpful

[@David-qe9np]

It's good to have the podcast back. I'm glad Marshall is doing OK health wise, with all the crap that's going on right now.

[@davin4811]

I'm really excited for the bridgeman course marshall, thanks!

[@brettinabox5607]

Great video, one of the best in both seasons. Would love to see shorter answers that still get the message so that you can reach more people through the questions. Some questions don't relate to every artist, so getting a clear punch aswer is good and then you can move on.

[@petarpehchevski3d338]

Please don't stop the banter. Also, I agree you should argue more, but throwing in banter here and there I think is a breath of fresh air. Its good to have.

[@dreagenoveva1333]

I enjoyed all of that, thanks both of you for your guidance and willingness to share and educate! I feel like every time I copy a different style I'm literally learning and expanding my skill in general, so I agree and also advice to try that out. I don't think one should steel a style and pretend like it's their own and original, but for practice and learning I think it's a great tool.

[@LALA-nk8pm]

Thank you Stan & Marshall! 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 And let the games begin!! 🥊😂🥊

[@Stormsson]

I love these conversations, and suggestions

[@butterscotchwm]

Jordan's problem is exactly my problem as well. I'm glad he called and was able to put those feelings into words.

[@chayemor]

Personally, I absolutely LOVE the banter and would even wish for the podcast episodes to be even longer.

[@Pistaschek]

I really liked this podcast! There was so much varaiaty and that made me keep listening, good job! And I like you Stan! You're kind advise is really helpfull! Have a good day!

[@atenakehnaton3965]

Thanks for another upload!!!!

[@girlanachronism88]

I love Marshall singing

[@anoukadel6397]

Please don't argue more, I like your dynamism so much

[@tobimiley]

Marshall, I'm really interested in following the production of the Bridgeman course. Sounds interesting!

[@ArchiduquesaMA]

this remote podcast is better than most!!

[@skysullivan9391]

I think marshal should be a voice actor, he’s such an articulate person and has a great voice

[@nattinattson9562]

About line control/hand control: I try to gain control of my non-dominant hand and I've gained some insights in how it might feel to be a beginner. I would recomend just playing around. Some practise with circles and things, but I feel like I felt more motivated and happy about it when I started to play around with drawing simple characters (and playing with body language at the same time). The sketches not that good and sometimes the line is wavy, but I'm still super impressed of the improvement. Right now it's more about training the hand to follow my brain's commands and building muscles :)

[@themannydraws]

Gosh, you guys are great!

[@Incognito-dt8bd]

I cant help but love how Stan and Marshall are like a grandfather and his grandson with their bickering and jokes XD

[@radkakopecka]

I would love Marshall to give us a tour of his library :)

[@savvyinart]

Marshall and Stan you guys might like this nugget ... Beverly Hale and Rockwell ( both art-authors) were taught by George Bridge ( art-author ) who was trained by Jean-Léon Gérôme. Gerome collaborated with Charles Bargue who of course wrote the Bargue classical drawing course (Cours de dessin).

[@linarala1234]

Marshal please make a video about the books behind you! that could be really fun!

[@kbanks5754]

PLEASE don't engage in purposeless conflict. Just talk respectfully, like you do. Some of us are venturing into art as a much-needed pressure release and Marshall's gentle style of conversation creates a great environment for that.

[@lisafred1362]

I am so glad I am an amateur. I think of drawing like a crossword puzzle and it is fun even if no one sees them. I feel bad that so many artists better than myself feel pressure.

[@ceciliateran5093]

I love Marshal's singing

[@josh-yl7li]

YES WATTS ATELIER!!

[@BC-sh7en]

@draftsmen as a very linear person, I'm getting into the bargue course to hopefully leave the linear zone and teach myself the classic block in + a more tonal drawing method. It was the only book, if not the best book i could find tp teach myself that.

[@GeoCreepypasta]

Great, I really wanted to know your thoughts about the Bargue Drawing course.

[@KnotApps]

Marshall is love and life

[@alexandrah535]

This is an old episode, but I learned from a Russian teacher that questions are asked in Russian not with uptalk (rising at the end of the sentence), but emphatic emphasis on the word being questioned and no rise, which in English sounds like indignant anger! I couldn’t bring myself to ask her questions properly, because it sounded so assertive. I am convinced this is has led to a lot of misconceptions.

[@Antonioprophoto]

I literally only watch these for Marshall

[@markuslanggeng]

Yaay... Another ep

[@Holdsworthands]

jethro tull! nice!

[@nilkilnilkil]

Marshall and Stan are good guys

[@chrisskjrvik4568]

I'm so excited to hear this 'arguing'

[@martad.564]

I’m long time listener, I love both Proko and Marshal, love your conversations. I really don’t think you should create artificail arguments. Drama is not the way to go with this show.

[@BC-sh7en]

There is something that has been bugging me ever since I embarked on this for real. Having access to information is one thing, but knowing your way around it is something else. Whenever I take on an online course or something of the kind, I have this built-in instinct in me that goes "this is how he does it, this is what works for him. It doesn't mean you have to always do it that way." I've recently realized the reason for that. Over many months as I trained, I noticed that whenever I'm introduced to a new concept/method there is a frustrating period in which I try to do things following those guidelines. I fail, and eventually move on incorporating somethings to my "workflow" per say, and ditching what didn't work. As an example, I simply can't wrap my head around doing gesture drawing like Mr. Proko. It just doesn't seem work for me. I was very happy when I learned about Karl Kopinski, because from what I could gather, I seem to go about drawing pretty much the same way he does. Not sure why though. I make messy lines, framing the pose and proportions, then go straight to final linework. Is art training supposed to be like that? Learning stuff and ignoring it?

[@profesional-cat-petter]

Yes! Art is whatever you want it to be, and if it works for you, go for it!

[@gonzalo5162]

I just wanna sleep until they release the next episode.

[@decryptic7334]

Anyone else notice the anatomy figure with the wig in the background of stans camera??

[@flamegurl97]

what about the twilight series to his right lol

[@magiuspendragon]

To the person who called in about being a teacher (Peggy?), One thing to check into: You don't always need a degree in art to be an art teacher. You may have an opportunity to design your curriculum in the same way that Marshall and Stan have been talking about. You can, for example, get a degree in psychology or education, get a teaching certificate, and develop your art skills in many of the ways they have been discussing in order to design the best path forward for you and what your goals are. Teaching at a high school level usually requires a teaching certificate which may be unrelated to your degree, but teaching int a University may require an MFA so there's a decision to be had. Note: I am not an art teacher, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

[@poloshirtsamurai]

53:38 What type of flute was that? I love the wispy sound.

[@d.o.nmuzic3802]

These thumbnails are hilarious 😂

[@G3rex]

Whoa, youtube has sections for videos themselves now? THE TECHNOLOGYYYYY