Aerial Toll Houses Explained | Greek Orthodoxy 101

[@dustindarabaris48]

This is the best explanation I have seen. Thank you

[@annunciationorthodox]

Thank you!

[@angelapatrianakos]

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

[@eighty_more_or_less]

yes; but this is prior to death.

[@angelapatrianakos]

@@eighty_more_or_less Exactly! Once our sins are forgiven and cleansed on earth our soul will fly to the bosom of our Lord Jesus Christ and be welcomed as good and faithful servants.

[@AfroditiZaimis]

Ierotheos of Nafpaktos is our Bishop and i know him personally. Very educated not only on theology but on so many other subjects. And very recognized and respected and translated author. And a great spiritual leader in our city. We are so lucky to have him with us

[@skipgiblets]

I've always wondered about the literal-ness of this. I recently read one article from someone who says they are an Orthodox Priest that we go through the toll houses during our life here on Earth. (Not literally, but figuratively with our temptations, sins, and confessions.) Seeing this helps me understand this a lot better. And honestly. the thought of literal toll houses after death has been a stopping block for me with Orthodox theology, but not anymore :)

[@leopistis3560]

Fr bless, Forgive me but there are many misrepresentations here. I will share some below, but please consider reviewing the work from St Anthony’s Monastery Departure of the Soul, endorsed by many hierarchs, priests, and scholars. Note that the hierarchs and priests that endorse this include Greek (non Russian) clergy. 1. The vivid vision of Theodora was prior to any “purgatorial” debate. 2. An accidental straw man is presented in that a “literal” toll house is believed, assuming literal means material and/or identical to what is described. This is imagery used to describe the soul’s experience after death; not only to rouse people to repentance but to prepare for the real trial that the soul undergoes that is best describes through the teaching of the toll houses. Blessed Fr Seraphim did not believe in a literal toll house, and says that “perhaps no aspect of Orthodox eschatology has been so misunderstand as…the toll houses”. He simply received the teaching directly from St John of Shanghai, and indirectly from St Ignatius Brianchinov, St Theophan the Recluse, etc. 3. There is not a single saint that rejects this teaching, even after the “Russians tainted it”; we ought to heed the words of the saints. 4. A false dichotomy is presented in the toll house teaching and Christ’s salvific work. Was Elder Ephraim of Arizona tainted by the west? Or St Paisios? Or St Porphyrios? Such great Athonite pillars who embraced the traditional teaching of the particular judgment, and yet who recognized the Great Love of Christ? One can reference many more. Much more can be said, but Fr you have spoken in such kindness in this video, I can only respond in kind: Please Fr, reconsider your position so as to be consistent with our saints. All are encouraged to read Departure of the Soul by St Anthony’s Greek Orthodox Monastery.

[@liamichael7673]

I have read many books that say the toll house was man made and it is not real.

[@leopistis3560]

@liamichael7673 Were any of those books written by saints, or have any references to saints rejecting the toll houses? If so, please name one saint that rejects the toll houses. We follow the teachings of the Holy Fathers, who simply pass on to us the uncorrupted teaching of Christ.

[@mmr1137]

If the Toll Houses is real than why Saint Mark of Ephesus during council of Florence in 1439 didn't mention Toll Houses when he refuted RC because of purgatory dogma?

[@George_033]

This was a very great response.

[@gobucs3146]

@@mmr1137one saint didn’t mention it so it’s not real even though many saints have spoken of them, and none have ever refuted it? Is that your argument?

[@BodilessVoice]

“No matter how absurd the idea of the toll-houses may seem to our ‘wise men,’ they will not escape passing through them.” - St. Theophan the Recluse

[@petergunn9149]

Amen ☦️☦️☦️ The Saints tell us about this that is it ☦️☦️☦️ To help us not harm us. If you don't like it or believe it doesn't matter better to pray for the departed to help them and do acts of charity in their name for the love of God than to think we are all going to a sunny place and not to help I believe this because I need help here and also when I depart. This is what we try to do now why stop helping each other in this life and in the world to come. Peace be onto all my brothers and sisters in Christ ❤

[@xa9441]

no matter how many times you say it is not official orthodox just an opinion. More priests and monks at mt Athos say The virgin Mary is Greek and have proof yet you wont side with that. Double standards.

[@BodilessVoice]

​@@petergunn9149Amen.

[@leopistis3560]

@xa9441 Can you please provide a source for Athonites saying the Theotokos is of Greek origin?

[@xa9441]

@@leopistis3560 Elder Monk Moses of Mt. Athos, The Greek Virgin Mary, "Macedonia" Newspaper, 8/14/2010. (Η Παναγία είναι Ελληνίδα) MT Athos Archimandrite Christodoulos:"the Virgin Mary is Greek" St Nectario like so many saints, elders & Chruch father do not rely on the Old Testament but on Greek philosophy & felt the pre-education to Christianity is Greek philosophy is a must. It was the educator of the Greek race, evolved into a prelude to Christianity. The Greeks’ love for truth turned into faith in Christ, making them the 1st passionate followers of the revealed truth. "Humanity is found in Christianity to which Greek philosophy leads'' St. Nectario St Nektarios "I have summed up everything about God, about the soul, and about virtue in peace, and treasure the wisdom of the wise Greeks...the love of knowledge of truth was their true philosophy; this led the Greek nation in a small way...and lastly towards the revealed truth" St Clement="Apostle Paul says"Take also the Greek Bibles, know the Sibyl, who declares one God...Lord Jesus Christ written more clearly" Sibyl="a Greek will arise from the Jewish country named Mary& we will give birth to a son& we will call his name Jesus "the Lord told us, to our distress because many do not want to accept it, the following: "So they say that I am not Greek!! Then (since they don't want to believe it), tell them that I am the Wisdom of the Ancient Greeks & the language of the Ancient Greeks!" Monk Moses Preveza Yutube limits what can be said just like the church to push a narrative which is why pop idoes not rise but poverty does

[@IveSeenSupernatural]

i forget the verse, but im pretty sure i read something like " and the spirits will report the every deed/word to the Lord on you day of judgement" im paraphrasing this but this is what comes to mind when i hear about toll houses hopefully i can re find that verse as i re read bible

[@AfroditiZaimis]

He is right. I don't think God would give demons that kind of power over us when it is stated that we have power over them. Unless it is their last attempt to mess with us and they are not taken under consideration.

[@eggsackley9435]

I’ve been struggling with this for four years. I understand the idea, and believe there’s truth to it, however this is my plight; we struggle to live a Christian life, we fall short constantly, but we partake of the sacraments, live the life of the church, etc. we do these things, to only be driven to the hands of demons? My thought is this…I imagine this particular judgement “realm” as a state of “sleep”, like a dream state. I’m wrong, but I imagine if you can be “tricked” by the demons and be given to them, that’s a lot like dreaming and having no control over what happens. So, you live a life trying to repent just to be fooled and dragged to hell? I just can’t accept that. Somebody enlighten me.

[@saltandlight93]

decree 18 of the 1672 Synod of Jerusalem will give you the actual Church beliefs on this. Anything else is an opinion added to dogma. If someone talks of Antiquity, that this belief somehow is more authoritive than an actual declaration by an actual Patriarch of the church because it's old they're in error. And also you can point them to Wisdom 3:1 which is in the Holy Scriptures. Older than that belief. "But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and no torment will ever touch them"

[@AfroditiZaimis]

Maybe, if real, the toll houses are demons last attempt to torment and harass us but without real power. Given that they never rest messing with us and God Himself ( satan tormented Jesus) they wouldn't miss this opportunity. But we shouldn't care.

[@TheologyNerd777]

I have read and listened to the testimonies of hundreds of people who were brought back to life after being clinically dead. Many of these went to heaven where they were in the presence of Christ. Many had what is described as a "life review" where good and bad deeds were shown. Some of these people were given a taste of hell or outer darkness and were rescued when they cried out to Christ. None of these people experienced anything that looks or sounds like the description of Aerial Toll Houses. Take that for what you will.

[@Madokaexe]

St. Boniface (8th Century Anglo-Saxon) records the following account of a monk who died and came back to tell of his experiences: "Angels of such pure splendor bore him up as he came forth from the body that he could not bear to gaze upon them… "They carried me up," he said, "high into the air…" He reported further that in the space of time while he was out of the body, a greater multitude of souls left their bodies and gathered to the place where he was than he thought to form the whole race of mankind on earth. He said also that there was a crowd of evil spirits and a glorious choir of higher angels. And he said that the wretched spirits and the holy angels had a violent dispute concerning the souls that had come forth from their bodies, the demons bringing charges against them and aggravating the burden of their sins, the angels lightening the burden and making excuses for them. He heard all his own sins, which he had committed from his youth on and had failed to confess or had forgotten or had not recognized as sins, crying out against him, each in its own voice, and accusing his grievously… Everything he had done in all the days of his life and had neglected to confess and many which he had not known to be sinful, all these were now shouted at him in terrifying words. In the same way the evil spirits, chiming in with the vices, accusing and bearing witness, naming the very times and places, brought proofs of his evil deeds… and so, with his sins all piled up and reckoned out, those ancient enemies declared him guilty and unquestionably subject to their jurisdiction. "On the other hand," he said, "the poor little virtues which I had displayed unworthily and imperfectly spoke out in my defense… And those angelic spirits in their boundless love defended and supported me, while the virtues, greatly magnified as they were, seemed to me far greater and more excellent than could have ever been practiced in my own strength."" (The Letters of Saint Boniface, tr. Ephraim Emerton, Octagon Books (Farrar, Strauss and Giroux) New York, 1973, pp 25-27. Qtd in The Soul After Death, by Fr. Seraphim (Rose).

[@conningdale8805]

I must admit that this isn't a topic I've thought about much. Coming from a Protestant background, and converting to Orthodox many years ago, I read the writings of the Holy Fathers, and was aware of the warnings. But they were preaching to a different society, and attitudes have changed. To me, its always been fairly straight forward. God is perfectly aware of all our sins right up to the moment when we die. He doesn't need little demons prodding us with garden forks in order to have us repent. Genuine confession and repentance should take place before death. As far as I know, the Soul cannot repent after death. I find that demons are annoying little pests sent to distract us from prayer. Saying the Jesus Prayer soon gets rid of them. Perhaps the best thing is to live a decent life. Care about others. Confess your sins with a contrite heart and trust in God. He will look after us. Thank you Father. A very interesting and worthwhile video.

[@saltandlight93]

Thank you. Was about to abandon ship because internet Orthodox people that are students of THAT monastery push this like its an official church doctrine and not an opinion

[@panokostouros7609]

Have you read the 1000+ page magisterial tome from Saint Anthony's Monastery on this subject?

[@aussiebloke51]

Thank you for a clear and simple presentation. The devil and demons may accuse us, to lead us astray and cause us to doubt, but judgement belongs to God alone. May I suggest, as a non-orthodox person, that 1. Toll Houses are a pictorial way of describing the truth that we are accountable before God for each sinful word and actions, as well as how well we have built our lives on the foundation, which is Christ; and 2. Perhaps monastics in their zeal for holiness have taken the symbol to extreme - as we all know a heresy is a doctrine pushed to its human logical conclusion.

[@DANtheMANofSIPA]

I dont think any advocate of Toll Houses actually think that the demons judge us instead of God.

[@perrylc8812]

Personally I would rather be more concerned about my repentance than if there is or is not a tool house waiting for me.

[@eighty_more_or_less]

Yes. Repentence - while alive - is key to the forgiveness of the Lord. As happpened in Acts, the people asked Peter 'what are we to do?' and he said 'Repent, and be baptised' As Jesus Himself told Peter, that he was to forgive people to 'seventy times seven' times that was the current way of saying forever. That is also how often God will forgive us.

[@Athonite]

Great breakdown, Father Angelo! The whole tollhouse thing has kept me awake at night, a bit more than it should. I appreciate the reasoning and sources cited in referencing your position. I will sleep slightly easier...

[@annetteanastassi7433]

Me too! I am terrified enough of the deep pit they put you in, and then to face the toll houses….

[@BodilessVoice]

Your solution to peace of soul, and a good night's sleep, is not in denying the Holy Tradition surrounding the Aerial Toll-houses, a matter upon which ALL saints who discuss the matter are in perfect agreement. Rather, your peace comes from a good confession, a clear conscience, worthy communication in the Holy Mysteries, and spiritual transformation, including good works contrary to your sins. This is what the holy fathers teach, unto our peace of soul and salvation.

[@fmayer1507]

​@BodilessVoice The Toll Houses is NOT a dogma of the Orthodox Church. The Bible references used when they are presented in no way describe the detail that has developed about them. Why would God give demons the role ONLY Jesus the God Man has as the SOLE judge? I confess and have a spiritual father on Mount Athos that I visit regularly. I firmly believe in the mystery of confessing and receiving absolution. I do not accept the Toll Houses and the details about them as literal. They are a metaphor put forth by the church and saints. My problem is that if we do not restrain ourselves from sinning and do not confess out of love for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then we are not spiritually mature. I became Orthodox over forty years ago, and I was Roman Catholic before and a I also tried other Christian denominations before COMING TO Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy has been a blessing because it is not based on a legalistic mindset but on a ascetic and spiritual mindset focused on spiritual love. I fully realize that we as humans are constantly sinning especially in sins of omission in not bearing the fruit we should, that is by omission. Upon confession and receiving Holy Communion we are being continually cleaansed.

[@orthodoxphronesis]

It sounds like the issue is with your conscience and you need to confess with an elder or better priest. This is just my impressions, idk, forgive me.

[@leopistis3560]

@@fmayer1507 No saint embraces the toll houses as literal, neither does St Anthony's Monastery as they explicitly identify in their book. Yes - the toll house doctrine is a metaphor, a parable, an image, but it is a metaphor of a reality of the struggle of the soul after death. No saint rejects the toll houses (throughout the history of the Church). And yes, of course there were saints at Christ's times! Christ our Lord made them saints by HIs grace, including the Old Testament saints. There are many ways that this important teaching augments one’s spiritual life and prepare for eternity; perhaps reading the many patristic teachings could help you understand. Regarding it’s status as Dogma, Blessed Fr Seraphim of Platina says: “The qualification that the toll-houses are not “dogma” is, it seems to me, unnecessary and rather dangerous; we believe and accept and hand down ourselves, as a full part of our Holy Orthodoxy, much that is not “dogma”: the sign of the Cross, the way of performing the Mysteries, holy water, prosphora, the services of the Trebnik, our love for the Saints, etc. etc.-but if someone begins to take them away from us, or undermine the foundations for our acceptance of them, he is helping to destroy our faith as surely as one who challenges basic dogmas.” The way you are presenting your point of view sounds like you don't want to believe the truth and embrace the consensus of the Holy Fathers - but anything that has been handed down to us in the Church is always for our benefit so that we may learn to love God more and prepare for eternal life with Him.

[@susansuewwilliams]

Thank you Father for explaining what we need to know about the toll houses. I always felt that Christ died on the cross to forgive our sins, and rose again on the third day. Why did we need toll houses on the way to heaven? Glory to Jesus Christ!! Thank you Father.

[@ortho-g9826]

Ask yourself a simple question. Why do we pray for the forgiveness of a person's sins AT THEIR FUNERAL? Also, why do we pray for the forgiveness of the sins of the reposed FOR 40 DAYS after their passing? Why do we offer the Divine Memorial Liturgies IN THEIR NAME throughout the year and in a special way on Memorial Saturdays? As a reference please read St. Macarius the Great of Alexandria. Many other Church Fathers also discuss these things and READ The Departure of the Soul by St. Anthony's Monastery !!

[@clivejames5058]

@@ortho-g9826 There is another well known Orthodox priest on YT who explained prayers for the dead are an act of love - both for the deceased and for those who mourn their passing. At the end of the day, what actually happens to a soul after their physical death is a mystery but 'prayers for the dead' particularly helps us, the living, with the process of grieving.

[@terence2503]

Thank Father for your balanced guidance on these confusing issues. You are very good at explaining complex ideas in a manner accessible to everyone.

[@annunciationorthodox]

You are very welcome! We're pleased it has been helpful.

[@nickbedoya4729]

Reminds me of the bronze serpent. Look at your sins in the toll houses and they lead to despair. Keep your eye on Jesus and live.

[@eighty_more_or_less]

I wonder frequently about Rom. 8:38-9 "For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come,nor powers, 39/nor height nor depth nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the Love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord" Does this not negate the idea of toll-houses? Or is the guardian Angel our protector in this?

[@DANtheMANofSIPA]

As opposed to here on earth where Christ protects you from them so long as you are faithful to Him, if you are faithless He will give you over to them. Many scriptures say as much. Thats why the nations worship demons. He has given them over to demons. St John Chrysostom says that when God leaves a place, demons enter, and that is what happened to the Jews when they chose Bar Kokbar as their Messiah and not Christ. Now their synagogues are places of worship to demons. In the Toll Houses, if you are faithful to God, Pauls words are certainly true that these demons can do nothing to you. Should you not be faithful, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[@snowps1]

I'm so glad you did this episode. Years ago I got involved in Internet Orthodoxy forums with a lot of diehard toll house truthers. This whole toll house thing scared me so badly that I went through three years of spiritual hell and almost left the church. I just kept praying and praying to the saints to help me. Finally one day I realized that it doesn't matter. If I live a good Christian life in the end it doesn't matter if the toll houses are real or not.

[@carolweaver3269]

Father Angelo ( My grand-father's name, on my dad's side) I just think it is wonderful how well you explain everything and using scripture and breaking it all down so very well! (It does make sense! ) Wish I lived closer to your church! This has been explained in a way that would show how our Lord would think now, as believed in New Testament, and after He died for our sins, and if we 'repent ' we should not need to go through fears for it later, as if 'truly repenting 'then the Lord would say " Once asking our Lord for forgiveness , should be enough" Or it would 'not make sense' to have to repent for the same thing, over and'over and over again!' The Lord knows the truth. He would not have come to die for your sins and said "Ask and you will receive" if not correct! Thank you, Father for bringing up this very important question!! (Catherine) baptised name

[@theodoreperkoski1951]

But logic says that there must be a final purification before a soul enters heaven. because I know that if I would enter heaven just as I am; heaven would cease to be heaven. There must be some process to take care of my imperfections before I enter Heaven

[@eighty_more_or_less]

Well, yes; but not sufficient to allow the demons to stop you!

[@TheLincolnrailsplitt]

The Roman Catholic's teaching of Purgatory was formulated in the 12th century. Toll Houses came much later.

[@F-35LightningII-vf9do]

Christ already did that for you. Christ alone has made us blameless before God by his blood. The purgatory logic allows for no savior

[@jasmineandrose123]

I know Orthodox don't believe in purgatory, but I just wanted to say that purgatory absolutely necessitates a saviour. Purging=cleansing. It is being cleansed by Christ. An analogy is you die in God's friendship but you still cannot fully accept His love because you are wounded and attached to your sins. In purgatory you heal and rehabilitate with God's help

[@jasmineandrose123]

Or you can think of it as God offering us a place in heaven. But part of us is still addicted to sin, and we need to heal from that before we can truly enjoy heaven.

[@elKarlo]

Purgatory makes sense in the way that the living pray for the dead. Toll houses make less sense as it is in over in 40 days or so.

[@ortho-g9826]

Does it make sense that A MAN ROSE FROM THE DEAD. "Do not be conformed to the ways of the world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind." St. Paul, Book of Romans

[@whatisthetruth.8793]

I have listened to many Orthodox priests on this issue of the toll house, I saw inconsistent, dishonest, denial and most of the explanations they give simply don't make sense .

[@elKarlo]

@@whatisthetruth.8793 To me, as the video said, it makes your salvation works based. Which is not Christianity.

[@whatisthetruth.8793]

@@elKarlo i agree with you

[@VirginMostPowerfull]

They should just accept Purgatory, much more flexible and reasonable. In Purgatory you could have a toll house theory, but toll houses on themselves cannot be credible.

[@fractal_3]

Thanks so much for posting this! It reframes a number of logical "sticking points" that I've had with Christianity

[@pastormikeleiter]

This is brilliantly articulated. Thank you Fr.

[@annunciationorthodox]

Thank you for the kind words!!

[@DesertRat.45]

I just read that verse outloud in my orthodox prayerbook..suddenly, youtube shunts this video to me. Time to overload the ai

[@ortho-g9826]

Read St. Ephrem the Syrian and MANY others.

[@Raven1821Patras]

Very good breakdown of the toll houses. I never believed it.

[@annunciationorthodox]

Thank you!

[@aleksandarmikovic9422]

The toll houses are not a theological construct, but they were reported by several holly people who were contacted by the souls of the dead.

[@TheLincolnrailsplitt]

And why any Orthodox Christian believe them? Has a. Ecumenical council approved of Toll Houses? Crickets..

[@mmr1137]

Thank you Father Angelo. I can confirm because I heard the same thing from many priests from Serbian Orthodox Church.

[@orthodoxtraditionalists]

So you're contradicting the 1,000 page book writtwn by your own Monastery in Arizona? So much unity.

[@leopistis3560]

He hasn’t read it. I can imagine it’s very easy to have this unity when you don’t have to labor for it …

[@bgp001]

Toll houses seem like something from gnosticism

[@Madokaexe]

St. Boniface (8th Century Anglo-Saxon) records the following account of a monk who died and came back to tell of his experiences: "Angels of such pure splendor bore him up as he came forth from the body that he could not bear to gaze upon them… "They carried me up," he said, "high into the air…" He reported further that in the space of time while he was out of the body, a greater multitude of souls left their bodies and gathered to the place where he was than he thought to form the whole race of mankind on earth. He said also that there was a crowd of evil spirits and a glorious choir of higher angels. And he said that the wretched spirits and the holy angels had a violent dispute concerning the souls that had come forth from their bodies, the demons bringing charges against them and aggravating the burden of their sins, the angels lightening the burden and making excuses for them. He heard all his own sins, which he had committed from his youth on and had failed to confess or had forgotten or had not recognized as sins, crying out against him, each in its own voice, and accusing his grievously… Everything he had done in all the days of his life and had neglected to confess and many which he had not known to be sinful, all these were now shouted at him in terrifying words. In the same way the evil spirits, chiming in with the vices, accusing and bearing witness, naming the very times and places, brought proofs of his evil deeds… and so, with his sins all piled up and reckoned out, those ancient enemies declared him guilty and unquestionably subject to their jurisdiction. "On the other hand," he said, "the poor little virtues which I had displayed unworthily and imperfectly spoke out in my defense… And those angelic spirits in their boundless love defended and supported me, while the virtues, greatly magnified as they were, seemed to me far greater and more excellent than could have ever been practiced in my own strength."" (The Letters of Saint Boniface, tr. Ephraim Emerton, Octagon Books (Farrar, Strauss and Giroux) New York, 1973, pp 25-27. Qtd in The Soul After Death, by Fr. Seraphim (Rose).

[@Nemija]

Perhaps the world today is not ready for this knowledge, so it is just easier to disregard it? I so much wish that the father was right, and that the symbolism behind the visions of the toll houses is but a myth. I like the sermon, but it is not me who gets to decide on the reality. And so many Holy Fathers support this toll house experience. Do we disregard them, and turn to professors of today? The toll house experience has seriously impaired my psychological health, since I've first become familiar with this as a kid. I wish so much this toll house experience wasn't true.

[@BodilessVoice]

What you are dealing with is called, in scripture, a spirit of fear, which is not from God. Whereas, our Adversary is real, by God's grace we can triumph! You need faith, hope, and love, of a Christian variety! Yes, the demons want to drag you down to hell! But Christ died for our sins, and was buried, and rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures! In other words, to live an Orthodox Christian life, starting with baptism, chrismation, holy communion, confession of sins, spiritual transformation, and good works contrary to your sins, invoking the prayers of the Mother of God, all the saints, and all the holy angels, we can be victorious, and reign with the Lord. Pretending that the demons are not threat is foolishness. But forgetting that, by grace, we are meant to be MORE than conquerors, in Christ Jesus our Lord, is a terrible forgetfulness. Lord have mercy.

[@ThinkingBiblically]

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. (2Co 5:8 NKJ) I reject all but the faith delivered to the saints in the New Testament. What a mess of man-made myths and flesh. Those who are in Christ are given the righteousness of Christ. Most Christians deny that and rely at least in part on their own good works. Such foolish people will be cast out. As Isaiah writes: "All our righteousness is as filthy rags". Only Christ's own righteousness is sufficient. We are given our wedding garment as a gift. He died for all our sins paying the full price and wraps us in His own perfect righteousness.

[@clivejames5058]

Well, my NKJ says "We are confident, I say, and WILLING rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." That does not mean we will be, categorically, but rather we are hopeful and willing. Other translations of 2 Cor 5:8 also do not state categorically you will be with the Lord after death - but rather “We are of good courage, and we would RATHER be away from the body and at home with the Lord” (Revised Standard Version) or “We are confident, I say, and would PREFER to be away from the body and at home with the Lord” (New International Version). Notice, none of these translations say: that to be absent from the body is the same thing as being with the Lord.

[@JustADudeOnTheInternetSoChill]

I see more scriptural basis for Romes understanding of purgatory (which I reject) than there is for aerial toll houses

[@josiahalexander5697]

HOW DARE YOU BLASHPHEME! YOU'LL SPEND AN ETERNITY IN Nah, I'm jk. Nice user name

[@JustADudeOnTheInternetSoChill]

@@josiahalexander5697 Lol you had me going there for a second. I was trying to remember what I said that could have been so triggering haha

[@TheLincolnrailsplitt]

I agree.

[@whatisthetruth.8793]

Orthodox are inconsistent on this issue and are in a state of denial as far as I can see .

[@JustADudeOnTheInternetSoChill]

@@whatisthetruth.8793 It's not inconsistent when it is only a theolugemenon. Despite some of its adherents insistence that it is dogmatic there is nothing authoritative to suggest so. It's kind of like trads trying to cite Quo Primum to insist that the Latin mass can't be changed and that all Novus ordos are invalid because of it.

[@alexs8335]

This Toll House theory is the most controversial teaching in the Church. On every Paschal Liturgy every Orthodox priest reads the Paschal Homily of St. John Chrysostom, where he says: "Let no one grieve over sins; for forgiveness has dawned from the tomb. Let no one fear death; for the Death of our Saviour has set us free ..." But as soon as Pascha is over the same priests start preaching about the Toll Houses. I don't know what to believe, because the Paschal homily of St John Chrysostom and the Toll House theory are not compatible. My question to the clergy is: do you believe in the Paschal homily when you read it on the Paschal Liturgy? If you don't, then don't deceive yourself and us, and read Theodora's Toll Houses instead of Paschal homily of St John Chrysostom.

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

@alexs8335 on every Pentecost at the kneeling vespers; we pray for all the souls in Hades. Do you believe that prayer? There were no righteous who were left in Hades because of Christ's resurrection. This did not mean that Herod and Hudas were taken to paradise along with them.

[@alexs8335]

@@fr.johnwhiteford6194 I think this is the wrong analogy. The Paschal homily is for the Christians. Herod and Judas are not Christians.

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

@alexs8335 there is nothing in St. John Chrysostom's Homily that contradicts the idea of the toll houses, which is found throughout the fathers, as Metropolitan Hierotheos makes clear.

[@alexs8335]

@@fr.johnwhiteford6194 "Let no one grieve over sins; for forgiveness has dawned from the tomb. Let no one fear death; for the Death of our Saviour has set us free" Set us free from what? "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21) If Jesus saved us from our sins, as St. John Chrysostom said "Let no one grieve over sins; for forgiveness has dawned from the tomb" , then why would we be afraid of the Toll Houses? Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos also wrote that the Christians don't go through the Toll Houses.

[@alexs8335]

@@fr.johnwhiteford6194// ... which is found throughout the fathers, as Metropolitan Hierotheos makes clear// -- let's read together what Metropolitan Hierotheos said: "Indeed, the fact that such a teaching can be found in both Gnostic texts and pagan - Egyptian and Chaldean - myths does not raise any doubts. However, it should be taken into account that the Christian fathers, borrowing the teaching about the Toll Houses, purified it from pagan and Gnostic elements and enclosed it in an ecclesiastical framework. The Holy Fathers were not afraid of such creative reworking." -- Is that what you mean by "found throughout the fathers"?

[@uncledavid1132]

Thank you for this explanation. I am looking into orthodoxy and catholicism from a reformed background and toll houses is a huge red flag for me. It is the first thing about orthodoxy that I come across that seems so arbitrary, and I heard that I would be "anathematized" or assigned a place in hell of I didn't believe it.

[@annetteanastassi7433]

That is dreadful! Who is that person to act as judge?

[@drewburley665]

From what I KNOW (and take this please with a grain of salt) is that it was more a vision and can be taken too literal. From what I know it isn’t dogmatic, but also be careful of “internet orthodoxy”. Talk to an orthodox priest. You will get the answer you need 😊

[@petalangel3772]

​@@drewburley665 This is the best answer.

[@annetteanastassi7433]

@petalangel3772 Also he is a priest, and know to folk, he has the facts and figures beside the spiritual aspects.

[@saltandlight93]

Yep me too. It's giving cult

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

I don't think Fr. Seraphim (Rose) mentioned Metropolitan Hierotheos (Vlachos) in his book, because his book long preceded Metropolitan Hierotheos' book. But the opposite is true. Metropolitan Hierotheos mentions Fr. Seraphim, and he doesn't dismiss him. Where in his book are you finding that he came out against toll houses? The book I reas by him affirmed them. No one takes them in a woodenly literal sense. But the idea that demons cart off to Hades the souls of those who haven't repented is the teaching of the Church.

[@BodilessVoice]

Right on Father John! Btw, I tried to post your wonderful article on this topic here in these comments, but that comment keeps vanishing, like magic. Thank you for your confession of the Holy Tradition on this matter, always following the fathers.

[@xa9441]

WRONG that is not official. This video debunked you since Fr. present official Orthodoxy. As another priests admits its impossible for convert priests to not being their former Protestantism into orthodoxy all the time to try to justify your new age views. You cannot prove any of your views, yet what you say can be debunked. Archbishop Lazar Puhalo says how good cookies but bad theology. and he is an archbishop which has a son which is not orthodox, but it seems even they say it better. Go read "The Debate Over Aerial Toll-Houses Extract from the Minutes of the Session of the Synod of Bishops

[@xa9441]

stop always pushing your protestant views into orthodoxy which this is one out of many.

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

@xa9441 if you read Metropolitan Hierotheos (Vlachos)'s book, you'll see I take the same position on this that he does. Is he a Protestant, in your view?

[@xa9441]

​@@fr.johnwhiteford6194 And so are many but his opinion is not official orthodox, and more are not with it but more converts are which is a funny thing. You as a convert have less of a standing to push ideas that are not official. This video presents the official view that it is not the stance of the church. This is not a focus, and you cannot prove it despite your harshness to other that dont agree which you also insult the church by doing so and most priest and you also make others just as extreme and negatove that follow your mentality which this is so protestant of an action. This is disrespectful which seem to be a theme of how you talk. You cant prove it yet keep pushing it as if you want to prove something. As the video stated you are denying Christ which is not Orthodoxy. You are a convert should listen more and speak less since as other convert priest say it is impossible to not bring in the former religion into it. The world has biggest spiritual issues, yet it seems like you want to divide than unite which i dont get it.

[@normadaly7506]

???

[@RandallSGregory]

I was told that true pious orthodox people don't go through the toll houses. Is this true?

[@panokostouros7609]

No. Non-Orthodox won't go through them

[@JustADudeOnTheInternetSoChill]

How are they judged then?​@@panokostouros7609

[@annunciationorthodox]

Father Maggos will be answering your question in tonight's live Orthodoxy Questions Answered!

[@grk70s]

Toll houses make for good cookies but bad theology.

[@ianmackenzie686]

I think my guardin anangel just put in for a transfer.

[@ortho-g9826]

This Priest is in error but more importantly the Greek Archdiocese is in a state of impending collapse. The Father is simply espousing the erroneous position of the Archdiocese. May the Lord have mercy on us all! The Apostasia is upon us!

[@xa9441]

the video states the official view. the church does not official support it. everyone else just gives opinions.