Aerois Shakeup & Season Hot Takes & Face Reveal No One Asked For?

[@slipstream8299]

Keep up the great work @Tyredack! Loving your videos. As a new player, I've found your videos on the champions in their seats extremely helpful with explaining how champions synergize better with each other. I agree with some of the points you were making. And really, I can't believe how bent out of shape people are getting over $10. If you don't want to pay it, don't. You are still able to get a good amount of free items and free buffs doing the quests that you want to do. Most long term players have gotten all the milestones done in the first week. And having more currency for when you hit T11 just means you can get more potions, more favor, and a lot more modron cores. (which I hear is a slow grind in the game itself.) So I'm not exactly seeing how even staying free to play that you are missing out. You are still getting a lot of rewards and "free" buffs you wouldn't normally have in the game allowing you to push further past your wall. Heck the buff in T1 alone giving an extra 200% damage for all champs in all aspects, for end game, I'm sure that's a drop in the bucket, but it is a little more than you had before. It seems like a lot of them were just looking for an excuse to leave and they jumped on this as their get-a-way pass. Again keep up the great work! And more videos in the future!! Also, stop licking your cat.

[@tyredack]

Thanks, I appreciate it! I really do think a lot of the outrage brews from the vibe a Season Pass can give people, and the lack of a firm answer on the accessibility of the Feats and the Core after the Season ends. Which I think the latter is a fair point. At any rate, I'll keep trucking and hope to see you in the future vids! And wait... how else am I supposed to clean my cat? /sarcasm

[@slipstream8299]

@@tyredack /more sarcasm! I hear most cats are dishwasher safe...

[@Artdefines06]

Thanks for this! I thought I understood most of it but learned some things I didnt know! If you ever wanted to do formation videos (even just reuploading the explanations you have already done as separate bits) I bet they would be pretty popular! I find myself re-visiting old videos just for those pieces as I gather more champions.

[@tyredack]

Thanks for watching! Breaking down specific formation does seem to be a popular request, and something I will likely cover once I've finished the Seat Tier Lists.

[@IamRagnar_LK420]

Please keep up the good work. I love your Videos.

[@tyredack]

I will keep up... well I don't know if I'd call it "good," but the same level of work. I love your watching.

[@treehugger0241]

I think you hit the nail on the head when discussing the money-making aspect. I've been fairly sympathetic towards CNE regarding microtransactions because the developers of a F2P game still have to eat, and for the most part they're fairly reasonable with what is locked behind a paywall--mostly skins, familiars, and golden epic items that give a slight boost that is far from necessary to get anywhere. There's no PVP so those that don't spend money don't have to compete with those that do, and I'm also fond of the Wild Offer idea because it means even those that can't buy something when it's originally available still has an option to get it later; a luck-based one, sure, but it still removes a good chunk of the time pressure that I usually dislike in microtransactions. And I agree $10 for the Season Pass is very reasonable, given that that's the cheapest a Wild Offer gets which usually gives you far less. The Feats and Modron Core are definitely a grey area. On one hand, you're not wrong that it's kind of ridiculous for them to forever be locked behind a paywall; if you're not gonna put the Feats on the gem shop at least make them Gold Chest feats. On the other, at the end of the day, they are still not strictly necessary to proceed, even if you do main Aerois champs. Maybe I'm just understating the problem because, prior to the season, I only used Sentry for speed and Qillek when I absolutely needed a steady full party healer; and maybe I'd sing a different tune if it was, say, Oxventurers or Black Dice getting the rework, both of which feature decently in my go-to party. But as it stands I don't use these champions enough to care about whatever buffs I'd be missing out on if I didn't buy the pass. (Also I am sick with a stomach bug and your reading bloopers gave me a much needed laugh XD)

[@tyredack]

I think the biggest issue with Feats and Cores potentially going to a paywall is that they never have been (exclusively), and that kind of shift will definitely start to worry people. When the company solidifies these mechanics as attainable things without paying, then do the ol' switcharoo it's a bit of a bait and switch. I just hope they do listen to the community on this one. I really think it will be the wrong call not only for the players, but them in the longevity of the game if the maintain only the wild offer solution. And feel better soon, glad I was able to get a laugh out of you!

[@JoviaI1]

Enjoyed the commentary. Would watch more of this.

[@tyredack]

I appreciate it!

[@SonyaWaifu]

I think the season drives you to trying new formations in an effort to cover multiple challenges/dailies/season quests

[@tyredack]

Yeah, I find that aspect fun. A few things on the side the encourage you to swap it up. And your name will kill me any time I see it.

[@StarkMaximum]

Coming back to this video after a month or two of exploring the battle pass. My main concern was the quests becoming busywork, but since they're 90% focused on the spotlight team, by having a full team running in the background resetting at 105, I frequently find that logging in means that most of the dailies are done, if not all of them, and I frequently have progress on many of the monthly and milestone quests. I've made it to the skin I wanted (Aila's) with very little work and not having to change the way I play, which is great. So long as CNE keeps the Battle Pass like this and doesn't significantly change it for the worse, I look forward to future battle passes. But there's always that chance a company will mess up a good thing, so I've got my eye on things.

[@tyredack]

Will be interesting to see if they change anything based on player feedback or keep it largely the same. My biggest hope for a future Season Pass is a change to a Champion that doesn't see much use to *really* shake them up.

[@Lou_Mansfield]

The cat face reveal is the content i've been looking for on this channel. now i can sleep a happy man tonight

[@tyredack]

Cats do tend to be a cure-all, it's true.

[@telprydain1]

Counterpoint: The season pass brought me back after a year away. Having goals in a game is a good thing

[@tyredack]

It's certainly a polarizing topic. It pulls one type in and pushes other types away.

[@twiinlab23]

This was a great video. Love showing the synergy between Artemis/Arkhan/BV/Nova. Curious. You had Vlhanya in the formation. I understand why. Just didn't think hitting the Aura of Infamy/Usurped/Observance buff was such a game changer over having another positional DPS in the formation like Krydle for example.

[@tyredack]

It's not a formation I actively run personally, was just following the theme. If you pump enough into ilvls/legendaries for the right characters just about anything can work, though. For example, Krydle is hit and miss with me. These days I usually use Blooshi instead if the formation allows Soul Gatherer to be on enough DPS. But, I still run Artie with mostly DPS/buffer combos personally (Zorbu, Orisha, Birdsong/Makos, NERDS, Torogar, etc.).

[@sly333332003]

Nova can be very good for Arty if you use Valentine. Her left spec technically gives her another buff, so if you position most of your dps within 2 slots and valentine 3 slots away or vice versa they are counted as different buffs. At least for now.

[@tyredack]

I mean technically you can do it without Valentine with a mixture of some variation of DPS in the 2-slot and some in the 3-slot range, each counting for their respective version of "The Crew." Valentine does just scale really well with Arty when she has good ilvl though no doubt. I really thought this was either going to scale to an additive bonus with itself or nerfed entirely.

[@airynod]

Hey Tyredack, love your face reveal. I am new in the Idle Champions world, and your video helped me learn how to play a lot. Compared to many games out there, I don't think Idle Champions over doing their season. Quests are easy to finish. The hardest one for me is collecting those Heroes of the Aerois lol (At this moment, I only got Aila and Qillek) Game passes have a terrible reputation because of what EA, Ubisoft... have done, but I think some people are just overreacting. Many of those Reddit posts against the season are simply afraid of being left out, the feeling of "I should be getting those, but it's locked behind a pay wall".

[@tyredack]

Hey back, and I appreciate it! I do think they probably would have been better off calling/advertising it as something other than a Season/Battle Pass kind of thing for sure. There is a certain stink that lingers from that. Good luck on your hunt for Champions! And make use of that reduced time gate cost for unlocking the Aerois during the Season if you can (if you like them, of course).

[@kluuvien8204]

I love that the halved the timegatecost, that was good. They also gave nova to newsletter subs and a code to get Lucius, but not sure if those are still available

[@airynod]

@@kluuvien8204 Oh, I missed out the Lucius code, but I checked the email and find the nova code. Thanks a lot.

[@Riihajarvi]

Another great video. When they rolled out the season pass my first thought was oh boy, let's see how much this is going to be. And then when it was $10 and I saw what the extra rewards were, I thought this is better than any wild offer I have ever seen. If it was $29.99 or something like that then I would have written one of those posts (hopefully with better grammar) saying it is over the top.

[@tyredack]

Thanks, much appreciated. I agree, I was also pleasantly surprised by the price.

[@chaosgyro]

Great vid. Thanks so much for the work

[@tyredack]

Appreciate it and thank you for the watch.

[@chaosgyro]

@@tyredack Addendum: I like the idea of season passes as good value for money in terms of rewards. I think CNE should probably move the Core and Feats to free and replace them with some familiars and consumables, but whatever. I simply have two problems with them as a whole: 1. Seasons should not be time gated. From now until the game goes tits up, I should be able to pick any season as my active one and work on its quests and rewards. The upside is that Codename could sell any of their season passes forever instead of just the one they currently have running. 2. I'm not a big fan of season quests. Force me to play the way devs want instead of the way that I want to play. It gets tiresome and, I feel, leads to burn out.

[@tyredack]

@@chaosgyro I think a healthy middle ground for your first problem would be - after the Season ends Feats and Modron Cores go to the gem shop, but if you spent the 10 dollars you a guaranteed the Skins, Feats, and Modron Core no matter what tier you progressed to, but the random rewards (chests, pots, etc.) are what go away. And the "Wild Offer" gives the Skins, Feats, Core for those who don't want to spend gems/want the skins. For your second, I can see where you're coming from, but I personally don't mind them. I think it partially helps negate burn out by mixing it up and having you play different things and make you think what formations you're going to use to make them work as they don't take all that long to complete (other than the milestones). But, different strokes.

[@chaosgyro]

@@tyredack I've thought some more about it, and a big part of what turns me off from daily quest systems in any game is that they can be fine when someone has already completed everything, but actively get in the way of a player who is progressing. I'm currently trying to complete adventures, gain favor, unlock patrons, get my first Modron Core, figure out how to get into a Tiamat run, unlock champions, farm persistent stacks, etc. Most of the time I can either do that OR effectively progress the season pass. Falling behind on whichever one I'm not doing, as well as knowing that I'm likely being highly inefficient at both by either not having access to the best locations or by using a less suitable party for general game progression thar nonetheless completes season goals. The removal of the timed nature is what fixes this problem. Allow players to work on a season when WE are ready, not on an arbitrary timescale.

[@maxleite3545]

I'm Brazilian and for me the pass is R$ 18,99. To be very honest, I wouldn't spend any money on the game, but when I saw the season pass I saw an opportunity to support the developers and that's it! It's R$ 18,99 or $10,00 for 3 months. The rewards are ok, and I think it's fun overall. If the next season it's the same price, I'll buy it again.

[@tyredack]

I didn't even think to see the conversions of what it costs around the world tbh. Glad you're having fun with it.

[@maxleite3545]

@@tyredack Bottom line, It's cheap. I don't feel that this season pass is abusive.

[@kafzielmarin1941]

ppl being crybabies over having "something to actually do" in a game is all I got for the reddit comments, the rest of the video? accurate and helpful as always, thanks for all the work mate and good to finally put a face to the voice that guides my formations, pleased to meet you

[@tyredack]

It feels like a lot of them feel like they spend too much time playing and more things = more time. But, there are people who do want to spend that more time, so different strokes. At any rate, glad to be helpful to you!

[@Egalia_1]

The man, the myth, the legend. I know this one’s gonna be good

[@tyredack]

Now you're fluffing me up too much, I won't be able to deliver on your expectations!

[@morkka]

The main thing I don't quite get about these many complaints is that surely if you dislike the season pass, and chose to simply not take part in it, you don't lose anything relative to where you were at before, right? Just as in the video, sure the feats and modron core is a bit of an issue. The rest though is no different from a Wild Offer with extra steps. If you don't want it, just don't pay for it.

[@tyredack]

I think the Feats/Core just put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths right from the beginning that it tainted their whole view of it.

[@Thunderb1rdOne]

As a relatively new player I like the season pass. It gives me things to do and I had no problem dropping 10 bucks. For context I will probably spend 15-25 dollars a week on gaming in some way. I have made it quite a decent way through the pass and right now it looks like I'll comfortably be able to unlock most of the things I want. I would like the rewards to be a little more generous though because I really feel the need to micromanage my parties every day to do all my quests in order to stay up with all my xp/coins. I really think this is also a great way to redress and rebalance a group of champions that need some retouches. My biggest gripe is time limited rewards. They could easily fix this by locking them behind gems after the event is over.

[@tyredack]

I really do think they 10 dollars should guarantee the Skins, Feats, and Core - and that the Feats and Core should become gem shop items after for sure. Really it works against them, because halfway+ through the season people will assume they can't get the core and are less likely to pay.

[@Thunderb1rdOne]

@@tyredack that is true. I didn't consider the mid-season join. And that is a good solution to it. It does feel a bit shit to have something so blatantly paywalled (10 bucks for a Modron) but it might be the best option.

[@tyredack]

@@Thunderb1rdOne I can potentially see the Core remaining behind the paywall as long as it's always bound to the 5 receiving reworks and it never opens up another Adventuring Party, just the core. So the only reason someone would ever pick it up is if they knew they'd be using those 5. It still feels off to me, but that wouldn't be so bad.

[@raymondestrawniii]

Great video. I did not know about the feat for Sentry's quest requirements, so that was nice learning about it in the video to help my gem farming. Just wish I knew this before I was gone on vacation for a week and had my gem farming up and running 24/7. Lol. Looking forward to the next seat rank video.

[@tyredack]

Glad I could help you out there. Too bad I couldn't get the video out sooner for you to farm more efficiently before the vacation!

[@Colt__the__Bolt]

@@tyredack i hope you do this for every future season Also my thoughts on the Pay way for the Season i agree only the skins and familars can be in Wild offers while everything else can be in the gem shop

[@tyredack]

@@Colt__the__Bolt That's the current plan!

[@kluuvien8204]

The 'weekly' quests don't go away at the end of the week so plenty of time to complete them unless a brand new account, and you won't get daily you can't physically do (ie: won't get patron x if you don't have them or have 100% them)

[@tyredack]

I figured that's how they designed it but couldn't really test it in my situation, thanks!

[@Jeffles--]

As someone who purchased the season pass, it would be insulting if the items were offered for gems afterwards and I'll certainly be reaching out to them to request a refund. If they want to do it in the future, fine as long as they're transparent about it. Doing it now after people spent money would be a snake move that would cause me to no longer spend $.

[@tyredack]

I certainly don't think *everything* should be, but I was so specifically hooked on the Feats and Modron Core because those mechanics have never been exclusively behind a paid wall so to do it would be a bit of a bait and switch. I can also understand where you are coming from as someone who has purchased the content without the information that they might become purchasable one way or the other, so I think that's fair. Again, transparency on their end would be key.

[@darkskysz2102]

@@tyredack Kinda agree with they being exclusive for season pass at least this time, since they said nothing about paying to get them earlier. But in the future, they could make that clear that you are paying to get stuff sooner, but that same stuff will be free in the future.

[@rtfmtech]

I agree with you, people are WAYYYY too freaked out about this... that one guy making the jump from this $10 a season making the game for whales that spend $1,000s a month confuses the hell out of me, you pay once and get everything (as long as you play) - and I actually don't necessarily agree that they have to put this stuff in the gem shop, with the addition of this core there are more cores than slots to put them, so its not like people getting it are getting some major advantage. Only thing that I see as a possible exception is for players who start later and missed the season never having the opportunity to get it. So, in short, love your opinion... that face though.... j/k 😀

[@tyredack]

The big thing for me with cores/feats is that they have never been a mechanic locked exclusively behind a paywall so doing so now feels like a bit of a bait and switch. But, I also agree the core isn't quite as important as a lot of people seem to be making it in this situation. Glad you enjoyed it, and hey no worries you don't have to worry about telling the truth about my face 😉

[@randramb]

There's been a post-footage update to the season rewards with a 2x all the AMAZING longterm potions each, single purchase, to the Tier 11 rewards. 2x gemhunter 2x goldhunter 2x psychomorphic vs 5000 seasoncoins Great video!

[@tyredack]

Good catch, I didn't notice that myself. And thanks!

[@randramb]

@@tyredack I love the balanced and considered view you have tbh, it's quite mirroring my own, so may be biased in that, but I feel like a lot of people are throwing their toys off the pram a little too light without considering the benefits they DO get, just looking at what they don't get if they don't pay, and as others have pointed out elsewhere, the Core is actually REALLY bad if you don't play Aerois with it, so whoever wouldn't want the other stuff for the heroes they don't want to play doesn't actually NEED the core, which is what most people seem upset about not getting... That said, I do have other gripes with the implementation, but those are minor things and can be adjusted on the fly, and transparency, as you say, will be key to how this ends up.

[@tyredack]

@@randramb I do think people are prone to overreaction, especially in gaming communities. It's also important to voice discontent with developers if you really do think they're taking the wrong steps at the same time. It's rare to see it done without people coming across douchey, though. I do hope things tighten up and we all find a nice middle ground where everyone's content.

[@ovimir9667]

Great video, pretty much agree with your thoughts. I think it is generally a good idea, the pass is good value for money. Compared to other games companies I think Codename provide good value for money for the micro transactions. I get some people that want to play it as a true Idle game may have issues as it is taking a little more time, but if you do want true idle experience then it isn't the game for you.

[@tyredack]

Much appreciated. I agree for the general pricing of content in the game that the Season Pass is a good deal.

[@darkskysz2102]

Familiar cost $10 and and that just it... while the season pass allow you to buy a lot of stuff with ingame currency...much better cost x benefit than familiars. Also you can login for 5 minutes, set whatever you want to complete (patrons, milestones, whatever...) in the auto system and leave... you are not forced to stay there during the whole progress xD

[@tyredack]

For sure, it really is just a good deal as far as the monetization of the game goes.

[@danielduffee2279]

I don't think the paywall is too significant for the rewards you're getting from it, way worth it. Watch after the season ends they get put in the Gem pool, honestly $10 for a season pass is worth it, and if you're mostly F2P you should be able to afford it. Best "bang" for your buck in the game. CNE has to make money somehow, and this is one of the player friendliest season passes I've seen from a game in a while.

[@tyredack]

Pretty much where I am with it. I do think a few tweaks could be made to make it smoother - like I think if you drop the 10 bucks you should be guaranteed at least the skins, feats, and core, as those who come in late to the Season will be less likely to pay since they'll think they can't make that many coins in time to reap the rewards.

[@scottman_plays_youtube]

You're beautiful! Thanks for your videos mate, I always learn a lot from them.

[@tyredack]

I don't know anything about that first thing you said, but thanks I appreciate it! Glad to help.

[@alexsuperpower1]

Nice video! And nice job on the face reveal, can be pretty scary with strangers who all have opinions on the internet.

[@tyredack]

Much appreciated! I think differing opinions can coexist in the same place, but there for sure are some crazies out there, no doubt.

[@bigal1093]

Thanks for sharing your view of the Season Pass. I personally have no problem with spending $10 for months-long added content to a game I enjoy. Perhaps it is the fact that I spend more than that on a trip to the local burger joint so I have difficulty understanding how folks see this is an outrageous amount. The fact there are very specialized feats and a useless modrun core (IMHO) behind that paywall is not that bothersome to me. Speaking of Modrun Cores ... I would love to see a video where you review and compare the various cores! Anyway, I'm enjoying the season pass and I am looking forward to the next one ...

[@tyredack]

I do think keeping the Feats and Modron Core behind that paywall is the wrong call since neither have ever been exclusively paid mechanics. But overall, yeah, I don't see how that's the price tag people are upset over in this game compared to the rest of the shop. To each their own. As far as me covering cores in a video, maybe one day in the future!

[@bigal1093]

@@tyredack Don't disagree ... I just don't want them to just be a trivial gem purchase from the feat list on the character (the ones that are 50k gems). At least make folks swimming in gems work for it. Make the feats a reward in gold chests like the other feats. To me that is fair.

[@Steevnsons]

Lol good vid and gives me an idea on the changes made to the champs from how they were before, which is what I really wanted to know ^^ from a person who started like back when voronika just got released, it only changes things a lil bit; but also gives new things to do (theres a literal mountain of stuff to do for me now xD)

[@tyredack]

Thanks again! Good luck on climbing that mountain of stuff and hope you have fun doing it.

[@DeathlyTired]

TL;DR: Patron tasks are now so trivial to complete, I simply don't understand the derision they provoke. Optional activities, by definition are not chores. Quite apart from pedanticly nitpicking at language though, my main account is 100% F2P and even then, completing all 40 Patron Challenges and maxing out all 4 Patron Currencies each week now takes me the grand total of 3-4 hours. I don't have a 9 skip Briv, nor 10K+ iLvls on my event champions, I only get ~50K gems a day, I have no scripted/glitched/exploited power at all; I still use Asharra/Farideh/JIm as main DPS (Because, I like them - never gonna use Krond or Artemis because: evil; and, they only work because of dev oversight on the math), yet still I can rip through the weekly Patron requirements. I just do them each week, and eventually have become reasonably efficient at them, even whilst eschewing the received meta opinoins and "best ways" to complete them. It's just a meme now about the "chores". I'd actually welcome more.

[@tyredack]

I think people fall into the whole idea of FOMO when it comes to anything like that. I can understand it in some cases, but like you said, they're really not severely time consuming or difficult. With the Seasons I can for sure see the Milestones as being daunting, but that's kind of the point with those.

[@trymv1578]

Honestly as F2P I DO wish cores took less time to level. My original first core isnt even level 10, 2nd is 4-5, 3rd isnt 3 yet. Ive played daily since mid 2020. Equally so because they're gated by modron tubes as is; its a struggle to get some of the 3-way tubes that flow in a useful manner (much less ones that are neutral).

[@tyredack]

I'd highly recommend Nordom if you haven't got him yet and actively use him as much as you can if you are looking to level them up. If you have the means, just have the ones in the background resetting as far as click damage can carry you with two familiars - one leveling click damage and one on the field. Just be sure it's on an adventure that doesn't have hit based/armored, like Beast Intentions in Grand Tour for example. Leveling them is just all about clearing areas, that's it. You probably knew all this but throwing it out there just in case.

[@mar1usedy]

If anything , i don't think the game is monetized enough. Season rewards should have all been completely put behind the 10$ pay wall. Let only the actual supporters of the game enjoy the added dev time. It's not like the f2p player element is not getting content constantly. They do, they get champion unlocks for free, events and variants for free, so Seasons should have been entirely gated behind the pay wall. CNE needs to eat and pay rent damn it!

[@tyredack]

While I can get where you're coming from, I think its slightly too aggressive on one side lol. In a game that's designed as F2P I don't think there should be *that* big of a rift between players who can't/don't pay. Content should be able to be enjoyed by everyone.

[@MoeGrosseFace]

I think it fairly priced too, i like the new season. Awesome video, finally nice seeing your mug. :)

[@tyredack]

Much appreciated! Though I don't view seeing my mug as a pleasant experience ;)

[@sohu86x]

Nice video (and seat rankings). This could be a lot better if you had prepped the reddit comments section a bit more. Maybe bring up your own arguments on why the season pass is reasonable.

[@tyredack]

Much appreciated. I wanted that section to be a bit more organic than scripted content to give my genuine initial feelings toward them. My intention was for my counters to their arguments I disagreed with to be enough to represent my own arguments.

[@sohu86x]

@@tyredack In that case you did a fine job. Keep up the great work!

[@tentacle_love]

How the fuck dare you be chill and happy about getting new stuff and the champion updates you want for a reasonable price? No but seriously I agree with your thoughts. Ten bucks is nothing, I don't care about the money. The feats will be available for gems for sure. The core, honestly, is just a novelty item, it'll be obsolete next season. The really nice kicker is that thanks to these being this season's champs, I can get a lesson in classes done thanks to their buffs. WOOO!

[@tyredack]

I think the cost can be a fair argument. But, in comparison to how much everything else costs in this game and what you can achieve with that 10 dollars I think is a strange time to choose to be outraged by a cost. Which of course, is more likely because of the Season Pass "stink" and the uncertainty of the Feats and Core.

[@ianyetter1435]

The weekly quests roll over so its not like you can lose them and you can re roll the daily ones so not sure why people are complaining that can't complete them.

[@tyredack]

Didn't know about the weekly rollover because I never got to that point, but yeah that on top of daily rerolls makes it fairly easy to get through I'd think. I can see viewing the milestones as monumental potentially, but yeah... I don't get why so many people hate the quests.

[@ianyetter1435]

@@tyredack Yeah bro week 1 i got do sentry's echo resolution 5000 times.. my stat is 52.2% so that is quite a bit i'm at 3900 now so will get it done but damn

[@tyredack]

@@ianyetter1435 I just hope you've remembered to equip the Resolution feat!

[@heronumber009]

@@ianyetter1435 It's not that people "can't complete them", it's just that the requirement for some of them can be too much, which requires a lot of time. I think most people come to this game for a casual game to play (Idle game) so they don't have a lot of time to put into it (such as myself, who is in the last year of my Bachelor, and also currently looking for job when I finish). And let's be reminded that not everyone is a player who play the game from the beginning. There are a lot of new players, who might not have additional parties unlock, or a lot of champs or familiars. So to do these quests, it takes way too much time. AND on top of that, for newer players, there are many things they still need to do/unlock (patrons' challenges, campaigns to do, etc.). I found myself have to stop working on many other things to work on the season "chores". AND I pay for season pass, but after a week, I feel like that just pay money to buy a bunch of chores to do for a long time. How does it make sense? Paying money to buy chores?

[@5Cats]

A previous game I played (which has recently shut down, it was just 4 guys in Barcelona who've worked at the 3-4 games they ran for 7+ years now, and the codes used are now antiques) had a "Monthly Pass" that was about $6 and gave very few added rewards. I don't think they got a lot of buyers, except from the 4-5 whales who had gigantic accounts? IDK. As I often say: $10 for 70 days of awesome stuff = a bargain. Count me in! (I'm cheap and poor too, lolz!)

[@tyredack]

That is the thing that's confused with the 10-dollar argument. When compared to the rest of the shop in this game, what you get in return is a good deal. Though, I get the criticism of potentially missing out on reaping those rewards if you come in late.

[@JesseStutsman]

love the video man, good to see you, and your cat..i don't get the argument about the game not being an idle game..it never was ..i want to play the game anyway..yes it's nice to see progress when i get home from work but i never want this game to be completely idle, at that point i will be quitting

[@tyredack]

Thanks, again, as always! I can kind of understand a little bit some people feeling overwhelmed by how much content there is, but at the same time I feel like that's a positive personally. Different strokes.

[@BrunoSantos-sb6vh]

I had no idea Dan Carlin played Idle Champions, cool!

[@tyredack]

I... have no idea who that is, so for no reason I'm going to assume that's an insult, how dare you!

[@BrunoSantos-sb6vh]

@@tyredack He's a journalist/podcaster that talks about history and politics. The resemblance is uncanny and you even talk alike, it's very funny.

[@tyredack]

It's all in the hat. (Looked him up out of curiosity)

[@stephankemmerling739]

Thanks for a good summary and overview of the season. And for a balanced comment on some of the comments from Reddit. Personally, I still have mixed feelings about this season thing. I was afraid they would nerf Nova and Aila, who I use quite a bit, and they did not as it seems. Some more interesting interactions have been implemented around the whole affiliation. So far so good, does that make me lean more into them in the long run - probably not. Qillek will be used where needed or alternatives are missing because of restrictions, Sentry stays in my Speed/Gem Farm team as before. I did not buy the pass (yet), as I wanted to see how I can cope with the quests. I was able to finish most milestone quests, all season quests so far and again most of the dailies when I was able to log in without major issues. Quite honestly, all I changed really was adding Nova and Qillek (and Lucius while he was needed) to my Speed team which blocked more Familairs then ususal nut otherwise I plaid as i normally did. Did it get overwhelming on days where there were fresh patron chores and Tiamat and timegates and Season quests, yes, definitely. But no one forced me to do everything, and some days i could not be asked. So my personal strategy here is to see where I get in free playing this season, so far a few consumalbles and chests I could get, besides some ever growing season bonuses which are nice but not game changing. Once I reach the final layers, i might decide if I want the new core and other stuff or not and I feel cool about it. The pricing seems okay to me, I did buy some GE packs or Familiars for almost the same amount in the past, and being able to get at least some progress without changing my gaming approach too much seems to work. I am just not convinced that i really need the core or some more skins (the Aila one is nice). Feats are always great, but then they are not game-changing.

[@tyredack]

Of course. And speaking of balanced I'd say your take on everything is one of the most balanced takes I've heard about it all.

[@VideoGameVillians]

I really don't get the people who are complaining about too many chores. It's not like you need to do them all. If I don't feel like doing the patron quests, I just don't. I'm only missing out on a small amount of patron currency I don't really need right now anyway. The season goals are also fairly optional UNLESS you bought the season pass, then yeah you should probably earn those rewards you paid for to unlock. And Trials Of Mount Tiamat, while the reward (being able to make legendaries to really boost power in the long term) is something you can do when you have time, and don't when you can't. There's enough ways to gain power, not everything needs to be done every week. Myself, for the goals I decide I want to do I can set up a team to idle through an adventure or freeplay for a while until it's done while I play a more active game on my PlayStation and I can still do all the optional goals while still completing variants. I know I said I don't bother with the patron goals, but I did do them when all this complaining started just to prove to myself that the chores really aren't that hard to complete and they weren't. Also as for the 'potentially' uncompletable challenges complaint... The poster used purchase a blessing as an example. I've seen that one and while I don't think it would if I didn't have at least one unpurchased, but the easy way to complete it was to reset my blessings for one of the campaigns and then repurchase the blessings. I chose the newest one since there are vary few blessings in it to repurchase.

[@heronumber009]

"UNLESS you bought the season pass, then yeah you should probably earn those rewards you paid for to unlock"? You should "earn" what you paid for, by doing chores? Have you ever applied this same logic to anything else you buy? What if you go and buy food/phone/computer/or whatever, then the shop just like "Congrats! you just UNLOCK these items. Now do these chores thousands of times to EARN these items (food/phone/computer/or whatever)"? How would you feel about that then?

[@tyredack]

At the end of the day, it's just what person A wants vs. what person B wants. You can never please everyone and there will always be the type of people who want one kind of content and others who want something else.

[@tyredack]

Or you could compare the logic to the only other thing of its kind, video games, which is exactly what people do. Do you know how many millions of people did chores like cleaning poop in World of Warcraft? lol I do actually agree with you to a degree in that I do think the Season Pass should guarantee the Skins, Feats, and Core regardless of Seasonal progress.

[@heronumber009]

@@tyredack With the part about "how many millions of people did chores like cleaning poop in World of Warcraft" I do understand. A few years ago I also played a lot of MMORPG. However, I would say that the difference is the type of game. For something like WoW, it's an MMORPG, so doing "chores" is kinda expected. If I'm playing any MMO/MMORPG , I wouldn't complain because I know what I'm getting myself into. However, Am I wrong to say that Idle Champions is a casual game? I think most people who decide to get into this game, don't expect they are required to put as much time and effort into this game as an MMO/MMORPG title.

[@tyredack]

It was more of a joke just in regard to what you said. Honestly though, I'd argue that while Idle Champions is a casual game it is also one that absolutely requires a hefty time investment, of course depending on your goals with the game. Effort? Not so much, but a little.

[@ItsGroundhogDay]

They've made more than enough money off me. $40 per year just for this one feature is not a suitable value proposition for me. I have thousands of games in my backlog and nearly a thousand more on my wishlist with a more reasonable price tag and few with predatory monetization practices. But I won't rage quit either unless they start hiding important features behind a paywall, which I think the writing is kind of on the wall that it probably will happen eventually.

[@tyredack]

I think that's absolutely fair. It's very much my opinion people should only pay for what they think is fair and play what they think is worth their time. I think it's a bit too early to say it's writing on the wall, but time will tell either way.

[@Avatar1977]

I don't get it, if you don't like the season concept then just ignore it surely? It's not as this game is a pvp thing where you need all sorts of advantages.

[@tyredack]

Yeah, I agree for the most part. Like I reiterated multiple times in my video, though, I think Feats and the Modron Core being behind a paywall is strange as those mechanics usually aren't. So, I at least think that's a valid criticism.

[@Shadohz75]

12:30 I'm of the opposite opinion. I don't care that the modron core and other items are season pass exclusive. I have no problem with it as long as the items/dlc are not critical to the story or main single player because that shipped sailed over 10 years ago. We should've nipped that in the bud when it first made an appearance. Where I do have a problem is when they turn "exclusive store" purchases, Collector's items, or exclusive platform/release items into free items a year later or at the end of the game's cycle. Think Atomic blimp GTA5 or Collector Rifle ME3. Quite frankly I don't know how the likes of Rockstar, BW, and other gaming companies haven't been sued yet for the practice. 12:30 The Aeoris core is paid content. Not only should it be better than the free stuff but also unique to the characters/teams. For those like me who use those characters constantly in my battles, it would/solid be a good incentive to buy it. Developers can't eat off skin microtransactions forever. Eventually they have to come up with pay model that justifies the licensing and server costs (and their own labor expense). There is no thin grey line between "paying the bills" and exploitative loot mechanics. We can see a clear distinction between program designs intended to nickel and dime the hell out of players. If I were administering a Free-to-Play game I would have to have two different tiers. People have to have a reason buy your content or else why not go back to the original model (buy a game for $999.99, get one year's worth of online content, and the servers shut down after 5 years). This is what you buy into with Free-to-play games (pun intended). Where it becomes unfair is if it creates an imbalance between Free and Paid users competitively. Cooperatively it doesn't really matter as long as the loot divvy is equal among the team. 20:40 This guy I don't know what his/her deal is. You can set up an Aeoris team formation and just let it run in the background for the next 60 days. Some players can't seem to figure out how to optimize their play behavior to get the most amount of work done with the least effort (create Patron-specific background parties or Season-specific ones to do their daily/weekly/seasonal tasks without much intervention). They complain about too much work while simultaneously complaining about not having enough content. The reality is they want more content of what they particularly. What's fun for them isn't necessarily what's fun for everyone else and vice versa.

[@tyredack]

The largest reason for me thinking Feats and Cores should move to gem shop items is that Codename established these mechanics as never having been exclusively paid content only. Doing it now is a bit of a bait and switch and I just don't agree with that. It's less about a philosophy of what F2P means to different people and what Codename has made their content by their own design.

[@impatchouli2680]

I don't mind the season pass or that it costs $10. Even as a disabled vet I don't find this unreasonable. Yes... it IS a free to play game, but the developers still need to eat too. You have a choice, buy it or not. It's that easy. But I also don't mind that some feats and the core are behind the season pass purchase. Look at what you get in the shop when you purchase something. Usually costing more than $10 here you get skins, feats and the modron core.... all for 10. So whats the issue? Problems with how much is required? Seriously? I actually DO idle and at times I don't. I'm actually there sometimes and I ENJOY having tasks to accomplish when I am there. Idle the rest. You either want to play the game or you don't. YOUR choice.

[@tyredack]

I agree, I was very surprised when I saw everything that came with that 10 dollars when you consider what you usually get for that amount of money with this game. The biggest criticism I can understand is the idea of paying and missing out. I do think if you pay you should be guaranteed at least the skins, feats, and core, because if you come in late and give the same amount of money as the other guy, but you can't feasibly earn the same *big* rewards, that's not exactly fair.

[@impatchouli2680]

@@tyredack I can agree with the sentiment of guaranteed unlocks for the skins, feats and core since that is what you are mostly getting the season pass for. I have been playing for about 2 months, but have aleady (mostly idleing) completed 74/100 milestones for the season. In a sense, the battlepass has challenged me to actually do advancing moreso than I was before. I'm having fun.

[@PrincessFelicie]

Which would you say is the "overall best" specialization for Lucius in a formation that fields all aerois members? In which situations are each most useful in?

[@tyredack]

It's pretty tight between them. I've seen people swear by his 3rd, but I'm partial to his 2nd, the Aerois Synergy increase. It's the only one that buffs his Chromat Acid, while still being useful for Elemental Adept's explode & Chromat Cold.

[@AWDTalon92]

My issue with the Season Pass, is that this is only the beginning. Modron and Feats behind a pay wall is BS. They are going to tout how successful this was and then more and more will be behind paywalls. Its going to get tiring. I'm not quitting the game, just ignoring the Season Pass for the most part.

[@tyredack]

It certainly is possible. But, they have listened to the community in the past, and it seems as though the overwhelming opinion (including mine) is that Feats and Modron Cores should not be stuck behind a paywall. If they change their mind and make them a gem shop item after the Season, would your opinion change?

[@AWDTalon92]

@@tyredack Well they've only said they would add to Wild Offer Pool, as you mentioned. Which would still keep it behind a paywall. But if it becomes purchasable with gems that would be great! I've only ever spent money on familiars, and I don't see myself spending for anything other than that. I'm still doing the quests and milestones and stuff, just not reaping the full rewards. Still plenty of other things to do in this game anyway. Not all variants have been completed yet!

[@Thunderb1rdOne]

I don't think the argument of "they might do worse things in the future!" Is a very strong one. Do they have a history of doing that?

[@AWDTalon92]

@@Thunderb1rdOne I'm not sure if they have that history, but they haven't locked feats and modrons behind paywalls before, so technically they have already begun the trend.. So, if they don't do anything "worse" they have already set the precedent of feats and modrons behind paywalls.

[@influenciaindebida]

I don't think feats will be available if not within season pass... no gems later. 200 (Us$10) is a lot from where I write

[@tyredack]

They've listened to the community before when an opinion is polarizing so we'll see. I hope they make that decision is all I can say at this point.

[@sotdumplin5952]

"click" nooice

[@Byeohazard]

I don't think it's the $10.00 that breaks the camels back. I think it's people coming to the fact that they play so darn much that they need to get away..and this is their out....which they most likey will not take (if I were to guess). I'm being a little facetious ...but just a little.

[@tyredack]

I have no problem with that if it were the case because people should decide what is worth their time. But the idea to not just walk away and move on with your life and instead spend time to insult, demonize, and blame just seems so childish to me. If you have critic and suggestions about it or on your way out, sure thing, but man people just can't help themselves.

[@Owlr4ider]

You missed the point of the people wishing to reduce the grind in the game. Having goals is great and all, it's the time limit that's the issue. Not everyone is an MMORPG player who loves doing dailies and weeklies religiously. This is an idle game after all not a MMORPG, it's the definition of a casual game vs a hardcore one. Casual games shouldn't have dailies at all and preferably not even weeklies, but if weeklies are there limiting them is a good choice. This game is all about long term goals and rewards like expensive items in the gem shop, getting X item levels on A, B and C champion, maxing out various perks, etc. Also your comment on patron chores was asinine. Firstly they're called chores for a reason. Secondly the quickest way to do the patron chores is free play rather than variants, especially for the more restrictive chores like x levels without a support champion or killing 5000 of whatever enemy type. Thirdly you can only do each patron variant once, as soon as you complete it you can't do it again, so once you finished all your doable patron variants you have none left to do for the weekly chores. Lastly about the price, no it's not 'just 10$', it's 10$ x 4 seasons per year so 40$ per year, and that's on top of any other purchase you make.

[@tyredack]

I didn’t miss it, I simply disagree with it. “People,” is a very loose term, because there are plenty of “people” who enjoy them. You not liking them is a subjective opinion, not an objective fact. My MMORPG references are jokes, because it really doesn’t take that long. People thinking Patron Challenges are a super time consuming grind to complete like anything in an MMO are just wrong. You can not like them, that’s fine, but if you spend any time on this game it’s really not that difficult to complete them. The only thing I can agree with on that side of things are the Season Milestones. But, that’s kind of their point, though I can see why many wouldn’t like those. You saying my comment on Patrons was asinine is kinda funny, because you’re the one missing the point here. Firstly, the reddit poster worded it that way, not me, because again I don’t think of them as chores just as many others don’t. Secondly, my comment about completing Challenges in Variants was a direct reply to something in the post, not a general statement. They said they actively enjoy working on Variants and not focusing on Challenges, so my question was why aren’t they doing their Challenges during their Variants, two birds one stone. Never once did I even remotely insulate you could redo Variants. The fact you somehow got that out of what I said is wild. I’m generally vehemently against P2W and microtransaction models, but that 10 dollars (yes, per season) gives more than just about any other deal this game offers. It is probably the single most bang for your buck you can get if you plan to do the Season and care at all about the Champions that are a part of it. I thought it was going to be much worse than it was, and was pleasantly surprised they did price it at that 10 dollar mark. If you don’t think you would complete the Season or don’t want to pay, don’t. It’s not being forced on you. Since I apparently have to repeat myself again, I do think the Feats and Cores should become gem shop items and I think they need to be more transparent about those things, regardless, nothing there is game breaking. If they start adding more important things behind a paywall then I will absolutely be against it.

[@Owlr4ider]

@@tyredack I seriously doubt many people enjoy doing the Patron 'challenges'. I mean they aren't challenging at all, just annoying. It's not hard to clear 1000 levels without a support in your formation, that's a basic dps only click debuff formation which is outright terrible and not at all what this game is about, but for that specific 'challenge' it's all you've got. Similarly it's not difficult to kill 5000 humans, undeads, constructs, etc, all it takes is doing free plays of maps with enough of said monsters, nothing challenging there at all. All it does is detract you from your typical mad wizard/cursed farmer gem farms and instead do them on inefficient maps to fulfill the 'challenge'. These so called 'challenges' are nothing but pointless time sinks. The real challenges in this game come in the form of variants, TOMT, etc. not Patron chores. A term that's incredibly common in this game and used even by the people creating guides for this game like Mars, Garwahr, etc, not just a few redditers. If you don't want to call them chores than fine, but please don't insult anyone's intelligence and call them challenges, as they clearly aren't. You may have intended your MMO comments to be jokes but I don't see them that way at all, and I don't think you do either. It's not about comparing Patron chores to MMO dailies but rather comparing a genre which is one of the most hardcore genres in gaming: the MMO, with the absolute most casual genre: idler. All the people complaining about having too many new things to do, which are nothing but busywork, are complaining about the change of direction of this game from a pure idler to a game requiring much more attention, and on a schedule no less, thus diverting away from the idler genre and closer to 'real' games so to speak, with all the FOMO involved in modern games. That's what it boils down to. Similar deal with the season pass to be honest. You're the only being stuck on the 10$ figure, missing the trees from the forest as you do. Season passes, aka battle passes, don't belong in idlers, they belong in FOMO driven 'real' games. Many people draw the line in the sand at this very moment not because of the price but because of the change of direction in the game. CNE has shown us in the past that when they want they can offer us very good deals value wise, they don't need to use season passes to accomplish that. The reason they resort to season passes is to keep players engaged and playing actively, so they can get more money out of them by other means. A gateway drug so to speak. Don't like it don't buy it is great and all, I didn't buy it btw, but that too is missing the point. Normally you'd think increasing player engagement is a good thing, but this is an idler not an ordinary game. In an idle game you're expected to well, idle, not be fully engaged on a consistent basis. I do agree that CNE deserves to be rewarded for their efforts, that's why they have the shop and all the deals they already had before the seasons model. That's not at all the issue here. You have to ask yourself why a seasonal model, and it's not to justify champion reworks. It's because this model worked so incredibly well for games like Fortnite and other Battle Royales and made those games billions of dollars. And now many other game companies of completely unrelated games are starting to add battle passes in some way shape or form to hop onto that bandwagon, not understanding why that model worked so well for Battle Royales specifically and why it's so damaging to most other genres, not just idlers. Again, the key words being FOMO and change of direction.

[@tyredack]

Doubt all you want. I will continue to call them Challenges, because that’s what they’re mechanically called in the game. My MMO comments were jokes. You can pretend you know my brain if it makes you feel better. You keep making your same opinionated points thinking they’re facts. They’re not. They’re your opinion and not complicated to understand, and I happen to disagree with them. That’s all it is my guy. If you wanted to have a discussion about it, you should try formulating it in a way that represents that. I’m all for debate but rambling in paragraphs with insults tossed in is just pointless and unproductive.

[@melbumelbu]

Hop we dont need to pay each season

[@tyredack]

Each Season is very likely to have its own Season Pass tied to it with similar rewards for whoever the next 5 Champions who receive reworks are.

[@Yurup]

I don't hate you or your face. I am unsubbing though because the game took to much of my time and this channel isn't required anymore. Great content though!

[@tyredack]

You don't have to lie about my face on the way out ;) Good luck out there whatever you spend your time on next. I won't always be exclusively covering Idle Champions so maybe I'll see you somewhere in the future!

[@Separiiii]

The 10 dollar argument isn't good. It's not about the amount, its that ppl feel like devs are trying to make subscription for free to play game as premium stuff feels too great value. There is always someone who says you're just cheapskate. 60dollar? Its just same as AAA games quit complaining. 1000 dollar? Star citizen/lost ark gamers drop triple that amount easy quit complaining. 100k? Diablo immortal/genshin gamers easily pay that weekly probly. I paid like 50 euro when i started gladly as i thought it was worth it and wanted to support devs, but now i don't feel that way at all. Do i regret? Absolutely not as i've had tons of fun with the game. If i pay 10 dollar for streaming service, but start to feel its not very good ill end the subscription and move on to next. Its not about the price its what else you can get for it if you aren't satisfied. Don't think i would pay any amount for season pass. Why? Well because when you feel something isn't worth anything then it doesn't really matter how good deal it is anymore does it? Like you had the turd example. It turned to turd for many of us when we lost your confidence for its future. The game didn't turn from good game to bad, but i lost the confidence for its future so there is no reason to pay anymore. Its free to play remember? I can play for free and leech from now on and its not any harm for anyone. The thing im trying to say that by going direction which i don't support, i don't see anymore any reason to give them money as they would just go opposite direction i would prefer. And its not peoples fault they want the games to be free like they are being advertised. I think its human nature to compare them to other similar ones and then discard ones they feel inferior. Thats just competition and saying devs need money to make games is true, but so is that they need to be better than other devs or they gonna fail. And this is the time for that comparison for many people when they look if the game is worth they money or should they just move on. You are gonna continue from now on as player who feels need to pay for season passes or you gonna be second class citizen compared to season pass ppl. I don't think you can argue that you can just ignore it when in value perspective season pass totally crushes free rewards. But its still free stuff right? I mean yeah but so is toilet paper in public toilets and im not very impressed about that either. For a "massive" season in a free to play game only paying players seem to get anything worthwhile. Free-to-play rewards compared to season pass you get 3 vs 10, and the premium ones are sometimes like 5x better too (like tier 6 3aila chest free reward vs 7 tiamat chest or tier 8 3 aila chest vs 16 aerois chest). Many have said that it isnt even worth doing whole season as freetoplay. I wouldn't go that far, but still its very low value for amount of grinding needed. And now that this pandoras box has been opened ppl are just scared for the future that maybe there is gonna be new stuff too which make you feel obligated to pay. New costs for thing I felt was free feels terrible. And yes i know i know its just super good wild offer and thats exactly the problem. Wild offers are terrible value and don't think many players buy em unless they got op stuff (briv jump/artemis flute) or still need familiars. And its not about players loving the game and after the season pass just making total turn around, more like ppl being already pissed (broken features like trials/backgroundparties) and somewhat wanting to drop the game now having final nail. Ppl just have sticked on it and hoped bugfixes and better mechanics would come, but instead its more monetization which is gonna take a lot yearly dev time. If we asked players how many would had hoped that the next big feature is season pass? I agree that the idea for quests isn't bad, but a lot of them feel just annoying and aren't improving gameplay. Like patron no support quests for example or new season pass only aerois champs. How many people are like: "NICE don't need those supports/speed champs now!" xD. And because many just feel annoying ppl find them bad for their gameplay experience. If those were fun, I bet ppl would like em. You say that the champion reworks are alone worth it, but in the end very little has changed. You use champs mostly same spots and they provide more or less the same numbers. After the season the champs are gonna feel terrible without the core as buffs vanish. Rework used to mean total new thing compared to old and i would say this is changing some numbers/mechanics slightly at most. The cause for this uproar is twofold. Firstly ppl being pissed about past changes and feeling ignored, but mostly its just ppl being tired of games going more and more to pay to win direction and trying to vent about it. This game is far from most outrageous example, but it started from elder scroll horse armor skin or something and ppl just kept ignoring the problem and here we are. Game has been p2w whole time, but ppl ignored it because free-to-play you could do all the stuff and mostly have all(but not GE/familiars/week long potions). That made game feel as one of the "good" free to plays what you could play free without feeling super gimped. Now with some "core" gameplay stuff going behind paywall shaked em up. I know that giving them money rewards them for this, and signals that all of this is okay. The "edge" cases like modron core and feats are just for to back enough so they can say "we listen see?". I wonder how many ppl think season pass is now good as we get 1 free familiar after all that super grinding for free. Whats the next edge case? Maybe something in trials rework as they didn't monetize it very well. If and when they go too far, its good time to look in mirror and think if i did enable this behavior? I'm not passing judgement just saying that gaming companies turn baddies over time (Blizzard, EA etc.) Anyways its hard topic and ppl have lots of opinions xD. Im just sad and think i can buy better games for my 10bucks than season pass. It was good watch even as I don't really agree with you. Sorry for wall of text lol.

[@tyredack]

The ten dollar argument is more about what that money is worth to the game based on what they've monetized in the past, which I probably could have outlined better admittedly. That ten dollars, as long as you're playing/completing the quests, gives you more bang for your buck within Idle Champions than just about any other deal. It was never meant as an insult to call someone a cheapskate and I tried to make it very clear I'm not even trying to push people to buy it, just give my opinion on its worth. To compare it to Diablo Immortal is exactly the kind of overreaction I'm talking about. I'm staunchly against severe P2W policies, and I know this rides the line, but I genuinely don't feel like it's as much of an attack as people make it out to be. If people are really turned off by this 10 dollars which is certainly *not* a requirement to enjoy the game, then I have no problem with them not paying and playing the game how they want. Or dropping it and moving on to something else. It's their life, their time, their money, that's never been one of my points. Do I feel like they should be put in that position? No. But I also personally just don't feel like this should be putting people in that position to begin with. That being said I also don't feel like the rewards are so much that anyone who doesn't purchase them will feel like a "second class citizen." Though like I stated I do believe Feats and Cores should become gem shop items for those who didn't purchase it specifically since Feats and Cores have never been exclusively paid content. I agree the "reworks" this time around we're nothing groundbreaking (Nova receiving the most change), but I believe them to be overall good changes, and it makes me hopeful that more intensive reworks will be implemented with future Seasons to really bring up some Champions up that really need it. Ultimately voicing an opinion, disappointment, or criticism can be done without being so prone to insult slinging and hateful bickering (mind you I don't think that's what you're doing here, just people in general). And if in the future they're more aggressive in their pricing for seasons or lock all content behind the cost, etc., I will be *firmly* against it. Sucks that you're sad and feel they're taking this turn. At any rate, I appreciate the watch even if we walk away disagreeing, cause that's fine too.

[@Separiiii]

@@tyredack Yeah totally agree with most things you saying here. I think the biggest problem is the line that when people feel like they're obligated to pay. Its ofc very subjective and depends also on persons financials too. But i just wanted to have some counter arguments to your points and feel satisfied with the conversation myself.

[@tyredack]

@@Separiiii Absolutely. I always encourage a discussion and I do understand where you're coming from.

[@StarkMaximum]

This will be long, I apologize. I will try to break up everything into discrete points so the whole post doesn't run together; it should probably be taken bit by bit. Quick point first: You keep saying "is this _really_ the straw that broke the camel's back", implying that such a small problem is causing so much of an issue. You _do_ know that phrase literally means "a small problem that sits on top of a mountain of other problems that, despite how small it is, still dislodges the pile just enough to make things unbearable", right? Like, it literally _is_ the straw that broke the camel's back; it's a small problem that just highlights all of Idle Champions bigger problems, like Wild Offers. Anyway, moving on. I don't like that you keep using the "it's just ten dollars" argument. I have two reasons I dislike it and they're both very different. 1. I don't think you should be using the assumed low price of a thing as an argument. That's the argument a company should be making and I don't like consumers making the argument for them, because it makes their job easier. Price is very different to different people. 10 dollars is a different amount of money to Bezos than it is to someone living paycheck to paycheck. I mean, just using myself as an example, "me after I get my paycheck" and "me a day before i get a paycheck" are two very different people. Some people are _always_ in that "me a day before i get my paycheck" state. By saying "it's just ten dollars", you're saying that the people who can't afford the 10 dollars aren't worth as much as people who are, which feels like you're judging people's value based on money. That's what corporations do, not people. And to add onto the price issue, think of this long-term and not just about whether or not this immediate season pass is worth it. It's just ten dollars, _now._ Then the next season pass will _also_ be just ten dollars. And then another ten dollars, and then another. It adds up. *(The point on long-term timelines and the ramifications of change will continue later.)* 2. The problem with a season pass is actually not the price at all, and the way people focus on that specific detail is letting the actual problem go under the radar. It's _time._ Every game is trying to do a battle pass-style thing, and every single one demands a lot of time and effort out of you to maximize the rewards. There is only so much time in a day, so much time in a week, and so much time in a month. If every game you play is competing to monopolize your time (and they are, for the record, battle passes are specifically meant to keep you playing this one specific game over other games, just like how daily rewards are meant to keep you logging in every day to ensure you stay connected to the game and keep playing), you _do_ have to give up the ones you don't feel as passionate about, because you simply will not have time. I have played a lot of gachas (in fact on Twitter a few weeks ago I actually ranked every gacha I remember playing, and I'm sure I forgot some), and sometimes I can be juggling upwards of five games at a time. Five games that all insist I should be logging in every day, doing my dailies, and possibly furthering a battle pass if they offer one. Even if doing my dailies takes five minutes in one game, every game I play increases that time spent further and further. Eventually I get overwhelmed and I have to dump some, and maybe I'll come back to them later, but the important takeaway is this: we don't have all the time in the world, and these battle passes cost _a lot_ of time. *(This point on time being the real cost continues into the next two paragraphs.)* I've only been playing since Dungeon Master, and I am already getting a little overwhelmed. The game _is_ a huge grind. I understand that it's important to have goals, and believe me, I have had goals. For a long, long time, my goal was to get the skins for Krond and Warden from the patron shop (and the characters along with them). That took me ages, but not because I was overcoming notable challenges or hitting checkpoints, it was because those things cost millions of Patron favor, and all of the variants specifically only give you a few thousand. The fact that the game runs on scientific notation makes it so much worse, because I would reach a point where I would do a variant, get the favor, and _my number would not increase at all,_ because it was too small to register on the total. Yes, I made progress towards my goal, but it's invisible progress, and invisible progress to me may as well be wasted time. I want to feel like I accomplished something every time I hit a checkpoint. And once I finally got Krond? Hey, you thought that was it? No way, buddy. Krond's best feat is in that same patron shop. Go back to work. Keep grinding those variants. You need _even more_ now to make Krond as good as he can be (And I do finally have it now, and I will admit, it did feel good. But it's still kind of "invisible progress" in a way because it's hard to see the effect it has on my Krond, because it's just a general numbers boost. Not like his sick armor which is badass and gives me a little ray of sunlight every time I see it). I certainly think Idle Champions, at its start, was perfectly happy being an idle game, but I do think it requires a lot more active play now. There's a lot of features and speed benefits that simply do not work if the game is offline, and in order to maximize your time you need to have the game on so all your speed tasks are firing off. I think that's why the devs are saying they wish the game didn't have Idle in its name anymore. Idle Champions is now my most-played game on Steam at over 1000 hours and so much of that was just leaving the game open because I really needed to speed up a long and grindy task rather than let it sit offline and take _days_ to complete. Idle play is actually genuinely too slow to keep up. But I think that's a different problem. *(This ends the point on why time is the real cost of the battle pass, not money.)* Like I said in point 1 earlier, I think a lot of people arguing against the negativity are doing so in a short-sighted manner, and I have seen this happen in so many other games. "This is fine, this is not a problem, and thus you shouldn't be concerned" is a flawed argument because it doesn't take into consideration the future. It's like ignoring a fire hazard solely because "well it hasn't caught on fire yet so clearly it's not a problem". You should be fixing the hazard _before_ it goes up in flames, but so many people seem to think that if they don't need to call the fire department, everything is perfectly fine. How many times has a game died and you can trace its history back and find a completely innocuous point that seemed like nothing at the time, but future decisions sprung out of that one mistake and lead to the eventual downfall of a game? Now, don't take me as hyperbolizing this into "seasons will destroy the game". I believe people should speak up _any_ time something happens in a game that they don't like. It doesn't matter whether "it's a serious problem" or not, it should be brought up to the devs just so they're aware of it. Not in a "this is a problem and I'll quit the game" sense, I just mean in a "i like this" or "i don't like this" sense. Little fixes can do great for a game in the long run, and little problems can be terrible for a game in the long run, and if the game is suffering from the ramifications of their actions, they can look back and see which changes caused the most negative friction, and maybe those should be the changes they focus on reverting or revamping. No change should be accepted in a vaccuum; all change should be judged based on what potential future ramifications the change has. All change is difficult, all change is threatening, even the changes that seem positive. I think we are focusing too much on the loud and rabble-rousing people who are trying to make this a huge thing and calling for boycotts and dramatic stands because they're such easy targets, and they're making the sheer idea of "i don't like this" laughable, which silences a lot of legitimate criticism. *(This ends the point on long-term timelines of games and the ramifications of change.)* I hope marking the ends of points and noting when one continues further on has made this long spiel easier to digest. As a complete summary, I think you are being too hasty in shutting down negative opinions and you're being a little disingenuous by focusing on the loudest of the community ("here's a few top-rated threads on Reddit from right around when emotions were most high, and now I will extrapolate this to be the entire community"). I think the idea of "this isn't a problem right now and thus it will never be a problem" is short-sighted, and I think we should have more thoughts about the long-term future of a game rather than just what's happening right this very moment. Also, you're handsome. Figured I'd throw that on at the end there as a little treat for getting all the way through this.

[@tyredack]

I’ll try to break my replies down point by point and remember that these are not meant with any ill will. The straw that broke the camel’s back was stated when that is how I saw the poster's viewing it, and I was disagreeing with that sentiment entirely. To think I was insulting people’s livelihoods I honestly find borderline insulting toward me lol (I don’t think you mean it that way and I didn’t take it that way). I myself had to weigh out if I could afford it and justified it to myself because I’m covering the game on my channel. I’m not exactly rolling in it. The call out of “it’s just ten dollars” is compared to the rest of the game’s monetization. When comparing what you get if you otherwise spent money on the game is actually a tremendous amount of content, even if it was just the Season’s skins compared to what other skins are priced in the game's shop. To be outraged by *this* 10 dollars, arguably one of the best deals they’ve ever offered, compared to everything else is what I find silly argument. I don’t disagree with anything about the conglomerate time issues. But it’s simply true that we don’t have time to do everything we want to in life. There are people who really want these quests and time sinks because they do focus heavier on this game. Is it then fair to take away the content they want just because someone else wants there to be less so they can go and do something else? People can only ever do what they think is worth their time, and I think that’s fair on either side. I wish I could no-life an MMO right now, but I’m at a point in my life where I can’t play any. Saying I’m disingenuous for focusing on what everyone is talking about I find a bit of a misnomer. What else am I supposed to talk about? I never said it represented the entire community as a whole, and the subreddit could have upvoted anything. I didn’t cherry-pick. I do not believe arguing against negativity is short-sighted either. In my opinion weaponizing outrage is a childish thing to do. Coming after Codename with nothing but angry sentiment and insult-slinging is in fact what I think is short-sighted. Now mind you, I don’t think criticism and complaints constructed out of sensible sentiment is inherently negative. I had my own complaints throughout the video as well. Ultimately, I don’t think Seasons are a bad thing or a game killer. Honestly. Offering old Champion shake-ups and affordable rewards with persistent events throughout the year that offer players a fresh take on the game is a good thing, in my opinion. Although, also in my opinion, Feats and Cores should never be behind a paywall. If they do not move them to the gem shop after the Season ends, I think *that* would be the mistake out of all of this. They have never been exclusively paid content and never should be as that’s a bit of a bait and switch. That’s my one and only problem with this scenario, and I voiced it clear as day and encouraged any to voice their opinions as well even if they’re contrary to mine. I genuinely don’t know what else could be asked of me. No hate, just opposing opinions. And how dare you deliver a bold-faced lie at the end of your spiel!

[@KakavashaForever]

In response to "ten bucks this is where you draw the line" -- Its not ten bucks, its ten bucks every two months ASSUMING THEY DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. Its about the creeping greed and creeping P2W aspects. Also the game is objectively worse when all the best shit is paid for rather than earned, I don't see how anyone could disagree with that. Season passes like this are pure FOMO and again I do not understand people being okay with that, unless its just people who like gloating about the overpowered things they got that are no longer available because they had their credit card ready to go when the FOMOpass was running. In closing, premium season pass should be skins only with MAYBE a few scrolls/contracts/potions sprinkled in very lightly. Everything else should be on the basic pass and earned by playing. ESPECIALLY things like cores and feats, locking those behind FOMOpass is absolute bullshit. edit: in regards to chores. Yes people want things to do in games, what MOST people don't want is a million little things to do that require actively playing this IDLE GAME for 4-6 hours every single day to keep up with weekly goals/expecations. ITs over the top. Most of us are not content creators who are 'working' when they play, or NEETs who have 24 hours of free time every day either. I challenge you to time how long it takes you to complete all the expected chores every day/week and make a video about it. edit2: slight content bloat? Are you for real lmao. I've been playing since the game became available, I'm at under 30% completion on all Patrons still, and I have barely touched the two most recent campaigns because I'm still working on finishing the older ones. I haven't even unlocked the most recent evergreens yet. Did I mention I play about 60 minutes nearly every single day since the game came out? Perspective is key, we aren't all playing this game as a full time job. On did I also mention I have only two modron cores fully unlocked? Perspective. edit3: Stop attacking the WAY people say things and address their actual points instead of the word they used that you take issue with. Come on dude. And stop acting like 10 dollars is a real argument. ITs not, its bullshit that youtubers and twitch streamers always use to blanket dismiss all criticism of the games they've decided to make money playing. If it was 20 you would be saying the same thing, if it was 25 you would be saying the same thing. And if it was 50 then you would be saying "don't like it don't buy it" as a blanket dismissal instead. Its weak and you know it.

[@tyredack]

The 10 dollars is in contrast to what this game offers through their monetization. 10 dollars for the rewards you get during the Seasons is by far the best deal out of anything they offer. So if you're going to be upset about money and how much they charge for stuff in this game, Seasons aren't really the place for it because it is a good deal by contrast. You seem to be under the impression that somehow the rewards gained from spending the 10 dollars is miles ahead of anything you can earn in game without it. While they are a good bang for the buck for what is often charged for in this game, that's just straight up not true. The only thing you could even potentially think is would be the Core, and almost no one who earned it actively uses it since its only purpose is if you main the entire Aerois affiliation for pushing, and even then, it's debatable with the Magic Core. If it actually unlocked a party that would be a different story. And to begin with, I agreed that locking the Feats and Core's behind the Pass was something I didn't agree with. Saying the game requires 4-6 active playing hours a day is just ridiculously hyperbolic. Perspective is key? If you've actually played 60 active minutes a day since the game launched then you've likely played more active than I have, so there is no reason you would be that far behind. The only purchases I made up to the point of my purchasing Season 1's pass were a few things on sale (I think like 2 familiars and a Zorbu GE) that added up to like 20 bucks to support the game. The rant you go on afterward is reaching at its finest. Let me be very clear. I have never been paid by Codename Entertainment/Idle Champions, nor have I ever even been contacted by them. I haven't earned a single cent from my KZbin Channel. Not one. This is not my job. Do I wish it could be? Sure. It's nothing but a strawman as you clearly know nothing about me and baselessly attacking me on that front isn't a good look and certainly not a foundation for you to make any kind of point. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me at all. I welcome it and enjoy debating about it. If you're looking for a punching bag because you're upset about a game having a modestly priced Seasonal event that is in no way shape or form required to progress, look elsewhere.

[@KakavashaForever]

@@tyredack Boy I wasn't sure someone could be that wrong this many times in this short a span but here we are. Yes I've played a LOT of hours actively, but you've made more progress, how could that be? Its actually really simple, I bet if you think real hard you can figure it out. Make the video I proposed, time how long it takes to do ALL the chores for a week, and of course enough FOMOpass BS chores to get EVERYTHING, and then get back to me. I don't manage it most weeks, especially now with the FOMOpass. The game is so bloated with grindy tasks, mostly due to the plague of scripting that went on the first couple years and the ass-backwards way Codename has responded to it, that its impossible for someone to do everything in anything remotely resembling a reasonable amount of time. You can, and of course will, just say oh don't do it then, but that just speaks to a fundamental lack of understanding for what FOMO even is and how it works. Which would explain really everything you said in this video, and really everything you responded to with in your very very wrong response here. Everything you say just drips with "It doesn't bother me so it shouldn't bother anyone else." This attitude is the reason gaming is in the state it is today with regards to cash shops and FOMO in general, so thanks for that.