After The Empire vs The Great Wall - Play This, Not That

[@RulebooksForYou]

The new rulebook for The Great Wall I put many hours of work into to refine - it's a big change that I hope you can appreciate!

[@BoardGameCo]

Looking forward!

[@RulebooksForYou]

@@BoardGameCo Thank you :)

[@bryanyoung9966]

Oh this is nice to hear!! I’m just getting into this game. 😃

[@RulebooksForYou]

@@bryanyoung9966 Thank you - I hope it lives up to your expectations 🙂

[@AaronAndSusie]

Been waiting for this video since you announced it! I've backed both so hoping to confirm again they are both awesome

[@BoardGameCo]

:)

[@ryanmauk]

Somehow I missed this video when it first came out! Thanks so much to you both for taking the time to discuss After The Empire! Still haven't gotten the chance to play The Great Wall, but am looking forward to trying it. I'm glad the wackiness and excitement of the push-your-luck aspects of combat came through to both of you. That was very much our intention behind the design and Evan and I both love the opportunity for exciting combat moments (and to trash talk each other for making terrible choices). YES, expansion(s) are on the way! Grey Fox is moving through some great games first (Last Light is amazing for anyone who's thinking of backing/buying it), but have confirmed their intention to make the expansions. We've got a TON of material ready to go for the game, and if they let us, we'll keep making more and more expansions. Thanks again for the video and giving us some love!

[@fireshrine77]

I really enjoyed this segment. Please do more.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

The Great Wall looks like fun. But still passing while I have so much tied up in KS still and am saving for a couple upcoming. Great to hear a breakdown and wouldn't say no to a game of either!

[@XileboW]

Loved the comparison though I feel you missed some of the delicate decisions of After the Empire. We had a lot of tight games where several players didn't get sacked. So competing for first player went well to get people into risking having more points and getting more enemies spawned. There's a decent bit of push your luck, but also a good come back mechanism if you get sacked in the first half of the game. Nearly all our games were decided in the last round with one player either winning or loosing the deciding battle by 1-3 soldiers. An expansion would be really awesome! Especially more asymmetry and specialization would be huge! Looking forward to getting the great wall reprint.

[@notjux]

Also completely unfair to compare the miniature version of Great Wall to the retail version of After the Empire. The wooden cubes don't do it justice.

[@EvanHalbertDC]

Glad you're enjoying After the Empire! We've definitely got an expansion in the works!

[@XileboW]

@@EvanHalbertDC well, if you need some play testers feel free to message me ;)

[@EvanHalbertDC]

@@XileboW Thank you!

[@oliverlam5208]

So much awesomeness. Thank you. Super excited for the Great Wall

[@ChadHensley]

Great insight. These comparisons are definitely fun. Hope to play both someday.

[@BoardGameCo]

Thanks Chad!

[@Berndr]

My gaming group absolutely loves the great wall and because of that we decided to try After Empire ... so this weekend we just received our copy of After Empire and we were sure we were going to love it, I mean what can be better than building your own personal castle and protecting it, rather than all players building and defending the same wall... After Empire on paper did sound more personal and better game in every way..... except in reality... It did not! We found the After empire mechanic was more tedious and the downtime per player irritating and far worse than any in the great wall... Even though the flow chart is kinda similar, there are these little details that speed up the game of The great wall and always make it better and make it run smoother with less downtime per player... For example, in the great wall combat is fast with almost no downtime... the soldiers will move onto a card slot and stay there fighting ... once all slots on the enemy are covered enemy is dead ... simple and fast ... and only then when the horde is killed you would calculate casualty and move pieces, in After Empire this is happening each round per each player, and it was overwhelming to the point that it stopped being fun... In After empire, you also add invader cards each turn same as in The Great Wall .... but on top of that, you are also placing per each player, lots of cubes around each player's castle, which can be over 20, then calculate each cube on each side to resolve combat ... then after resolution remove these cubes almost instantly as well as destroyed wall pieces ... it felt very tedious! Even though this is less or more what happens in the great wall when the Enemy is killed as well, In after the empire this process is much more tedious, take longer and happens each turn with almost every player! At least they could have made a cube representing a group of 5 soldiers to speed up the game, same goes for food ... constant counting of single cubes got us yawning ... As the game progressed, the number of cubes kept increasing, with 4 players it felt like it was taking forever to get to your turn. you are constantly counting, rearranging, and fiddling with cubes around each player's castle ... One of the guys was joking saying After Empire should have been called count your cubes instead ... What I liked is that In the great wall, the horde card stayed longer in the game, Enemy card would be on the battlefield in front of the wall till they die ... having our soldiers on horde cards staying there engaged representing battlefield fighting, gave us a beautiful thematic immersion of a long-lasting siege ... it felt strategic and most importantly not tedious, we did not need to constantly per each player fiddle with cubes that were literally instantly removed! I feel the siege in after the empire should have been resolved in a better, and even longer way ... enemy soldiers should have stayed longer around the castle, blocking farms ....rather than cubes being removed as soon as placed ... I wonder if soldiers in after the empire had health and did not instantly die and thus stayed longer around the castle would that give that feel of long siege and immersion I was looking for ... rather than what they did was turn it into a cube-counting abstract representation ... after playing the After Empire game, we felt exhausted by tediousness as if we spent a day working and kinda unfulfilled... we never felt like this with The great wall... In my opinion, as well as my gaming group The great wall is a much better game, faster, smoother, with less player downtime ... and absolutely epic when you play it with the black powder expansion ... It should not be played without it... It is important to say, we all have different ideas of what a good game is, and not every game is for everyone ... Thank you for a great review as always ...

[@dougcerulli8826]

Thanks for the video! Last game of After the Empire I got greedy and ended up getting sacked in the last round. DON'T get sacked in the last round. There went my lead .... LOL!

[@BoardGameCo]

Lol yep, getting sacked should be done early

[@EvanHalbertDC]

This was awesome! More videos with you and Shira!

[@intrepidfool]

Backed the Great Wall a week or so ago on the Gamefound campaign. Now, I have After the Empire on my "to play" list. Too many games and never enough time...

[@BoardGameCo]

Always the case

[@notjux]

I wish they had kept the meeple version of Great Wall. I skipped it because at the time the game was billed as co-op only, but now I can't believe I passed on the $57 price tag.

[@licotto]

that's funny, because I skipped on it initially because all I saw was competitive with a tacked-on cooperative variant! I ended up buying a secondhand minis version of the Core & Stretch Goal boxes and love it! However, I just play the 2p coop instead of solo because the solo was just muddled 😣

[@dennisa872]

I have After the Empire coming(sometime). I've been going back and forth on backing The Great Wall.

[@BoardGameCo]

Both are excellent

[@darrenhaywood7304]

Great overview as usual, however I feel it would have been fairer to compare the Great Wall meeple version v the base version of After the Empire or the miniature version of both. Other than cost and components I doubt it changes much of the overview though.

[@BoardGameCo]

Absolutely, if I had a matching set I would have for sure.

[@Ottoppers]

What do you think about perseverance vs those two?

[@QcMaddog]

I would have been interested to have your opinion on their duration since it can be an important factor. Is one so long that it may be harder then the other to find the time? Does one seems to long or short versus what you would have wanted? That kind of thing. Otherwise, nice video as always :) I was very interested in this comparison!

[@BoardGameCo]

Both run over 2 hours, great wall at four players drifts towards three hours

[@QcMaddog]

@@BoardGameCo Thanks for the information :) I was really wondering from someone who played each a few times with different number of players!

[@mikef6857]

Is the sun drop version worth the extra $60.00? Backing the campaign just don’t know if I can justify the extra 60, but man they look good?

[@xavifito1991]

My point to not going for the sundrop was "yes, they look gorgeous but....$60? this is the price of another nice game!". Sundrop is cosmetic, it adds nothing to the gameplay.

[@Muthan565]

I've though about "sundroping" the minis myself to save some money, but it means that i have to buy a bottle of primer, a bottle of varnish, 5-6 bottle of wash + 6-7 bottle of color for dry brushing + the brush ... and the time for 125+ minis. My amateurish skill will probably be good enough on the basic colored minis, but it might not be on par with the sundrop version of genkhis khan or black powder expansion minis. On the other end, if i gear up with some basic painting stuff, i'll be able to pimp my other games with minis by also sundropping them.

[@ScytheNoire]

I backed the After The Empire reprint, as it looks like chaotic fun. I would have backed The Great Wall, but I think I want the meeple version, and that's not an option.

[@davidarchambault2093]

Do you mean meeple? Because it's only miniature version right now.

[@ScytheNoire]

@@davidarchambault2093 LOL, yes, meeple. Thanks.

[@RiHa_Games]

Well isn't this my favourite colab and throwback, back to the good old days where everything was better and some people still had hair 😜 I only backed the deluxe goods and not the game for after the empire 😁

[@BoardGameCo]

Lol yep, it's been awhile

[@guinealover121]

Haha people still have hair, just not on their heads anymore! The beard is getting a bit long.

[@riddlesphinxx]

Ugh. Yesterday morning I backed Great Wall. At the end of the day I decided I could spend the $166 on several other games instead and canceled my pledge. This makes me want to pledge again. Your enjoyment and enthusiasm is killing me

[@xavifito1991]

back $1 to grant you access to the pledge manager. At the same time, you are buying time for yourself to see if the hype keeps high...or not

[@riddlesphinxx]

@@xavifito1991 Sadly I don't think this project has a $1 pledge. Or does Gamefound always let you donate $1 to gain pledge manager access? It says no reward

[@dannyvallee7197]

There is a 1$ pledge option.

[@BoardGameCo]

Sorry :(

[@xavifito1991]

@@riddlesphinxx yes, there is the option but not like ks but as a kind of "contribution"

[@Luke_L]

So tempted by The Great Wall. But it's also SOOO expensive. I can get a few great Euro-games for the same price. Hmm.....

[@BoardGameCo]

💯 This

[@arthurdent9281]

I'm in for $1 for GW, but I've been hesitant to pull the trigger since I'll mostly get to play at 2 players, and only rarely at 3. Doubt that I'll even try to play 4p just due to playtime.

[@theRabbitFly]

My main issue with the great wall is playtime. I really enjoy it, but I tried it at 5 once and haven't been able to get it to the table Since. I don't have after the empire yet, but I think it will be easier to get to the table. This has a lot to do with my game group. We get together once a week, but often quite late in the evening and often 4 or 5 people. I do think I personally will like the great wall more, but I think there is a higher potential for good times within after the empire, or at least I hope so. Time will tell.

[@BoardGameCo]

Oh I would never play it at 5, Even for I'm only willing to for the sake of hanging out with specific people. Three is my sweet spot so far

[@theRabbitFly]

@@BoardGameCo Yea I regret giving it a try at 5. Played at 3 and 2 before that and both of those players counts seemed great.

[@maxf.7262]

Oh i missed this format

[@BoardGameCo]

There will be more :)

[@theodorebaggins1050]

Why did you have to leave Shira?... I much prefer your dynamics with Alex. You guys bank off each other really well.

[@BoardGameCo]

Thanks Theodore :)

[@guinealover121]

I'm not too far away and always happy to hop on camera with this guy. I missed these videos too!

[@theodorebaggins1050]

@@guinealover121 You are fun to watch Shira! It's great to watch you come into your own as a KZbin personality. More Shira is never a bad thing lol

[@guinealover121]

@@theodorebaggins1050 haha thank you so much!

[@riverwulf6721]

Did she say she's from Quack & Co? Is that a thing?

[@BoardGameCo]

It is if you search for it ;-)

[@guinealover121]

not unless you search for it

[@santeeblack3580]

Shira is great, makes me really sad I don't have a awesome gal to talk games with... Do I want galaxy trucker , or realistic team galaxy trucker without the quirks and fun.. I know my group

[@patriziopastore9895]

Nice comparison so the winner is the great wall. I understand that they are both good game but maybe is better to emphasize who is the winner to help people to in case choose

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep, we covered that in the play this, not that time stamp :)

[@jcdc9437]

When I think that AR do another crowdfunding campaign before sending all their games from the first TGW print. 🤯🤦🏻😬

[@BoardGameCo]

The vast majority have gone out, are you referring to specific exceptions? Specific regions?

[@ny8956]

Maybe you just are not very smart

[@BoardGameCo]

I mean maybe...but I really need more context.