Against the Odds: Rat Colony (Standard)

[@Crazymachin3gun]

You do realize metallic mimic can be a rat which pumps rat colony

[@LedPESRule]

But Mimic isn't all that good really, particularly with the rats that have the same cmc..

[@MTGGoldfish]

Yeah, I tried it. Found it medium personally. The biggest problem with the deck is removal, and Mimic still dies to Chainwhirler/Walking Ballista like the rest of our deck :(

[@BlaineTog]

Mimic has really underperformed in every deck I've tried it in. It looks so great but the problem is there's never a good time to cast it. It just dies to their first removal spell if it's your first spell, does absolutely nothing if it's your last spell, and does just ok if it's one of your spells in the middle.

[@tomsontom4742]

But why not run it anyways? It is just a rat with upside

[@BlaineTog]

Because it doesn't get a power boost off the number of rats in play. Play it early, it just dies. Play it late, it's strictly worse than another Rat Colony.

[@Pandatinger]

"Hit our swans, draw some cards. Play a rat, draw a card." ~Great poet Seth, (probably better known as Saffron Olive)

[@Crazymachin3gun]

Where's metallic mimic

[@bulbabrony]

Cm3 It's awkward on curve, and removal just bodies this deck.

[@BlaineTog]

Actually, the biggest mistake with this deck is just that it doesn't play enough rats! 20 simply isn't enough. If you'll notice, most of Seth's wins were games where he just played a rat every turn instead of the support cards. That's how this deck wins: by overwhelming your opponent's answers with a never-ending stream of rats, not by watering down the deck too much with other cards. 28 rats or bust, I say!

[@ill_bonepeep8277]

BlaineTog yes yes yes a literal wall of rats I've actually wanted to build up rat deck for a while now but haven't managed to get around to it go with cards like Relentless in rat colony and a few other choice nasty vermin I think it could be done affectedly now just something about smacking your opponent's down with a bunch of rats just sounds demoralizing

[@DEG99Y]

Is it just me or at 34:08 could Seth have used Temple of Alcazotz to sac a rat for 8 life before settle resolved, so that he could survive Gideon when he used Dusk?

[@esteban6614]

Dylan Green yes he could have ahah

[@jeffreylooter535]

Punt centeral

[@allankhanjani1948]

Temple only checks for toughness but either way he could have gained 4 which would put him to 5 and not in gideon rane

[@MTGGoldfish]

Oops! I think you're right (could have gains four, which still would have been worth it).

[@la.zanmal.]

Temple cares about the creature's toughness, not power.

[@Bryan-T]

4 bontu monument, 4 secret salvage, 32 rat colony, 20 swamps.

[@d_andrews]

Needs a couple of copies of Cabal Stronghold ;-)

[@errolalden7660]

I went three one with that exact deck at fnm

[@GalaticCyrus]

Missed the blue splash for Tetsuko or Gruesome Fate for when the boards is too full to attack.

[@elementfayt]

Did you not learn anything for the start of the video?

[@BlaineTog]

You need at least 23 lands to ensure you can actually cast your Secret Salvages, but 24 is safer. So 4 monument, 4 Secret Salvage, 28 Rat Colony, 20 Swamp, 4 Cabal Stronghold is much safer. Plus then you can deploy a LOT of rats in one turn, possibly even right away.

[@LeviathanStorm38]

Missed opportunity to jam in Revel in Riches somehow and call it "Rats to Riches". I am disappoint, Seth.

[@MTGGoldfish]

I should have done it just for the name.

[@totalcoward]

Now we need an Against the Odds (or maybe Much Andrew depending on how good it actually is) for a “Riches” deck running play sets of Rags to Riches and Revel in Riches

[@LeviathanStorm38]

I mean, that's what multiple series are for, right? Although it's probably not a great brew in the end. XD

[@Entropic_Alloy]

I don't think I've heard, "SO CLOSE!" this many times in an MTGGoldfish video before. Those loses were soul crushingly brutal and tragic.

[@ZeroHourOtaku]

What's better than a rat with a sword? A rat with 2 swords.

[@senseibuh527]

Zero Hour The question: How does a rat wield 2 2-handed swords?

[@_katherine__r]

Rat-iant Destiny would've been a better name.

[@simianoverlord2140]

Rodent Destiny was also a missed opportunity

[@Yakmage]

why no secret salvage? its still in standard

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Yakov Weinberger and what do you do when you've drawn 19 rats?

[@Yakmage]

Louise Drake you don't need to draw that many. It's just a draw 7 late game

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Yakov Weinberger you still only get to cast 2 or 3 after that, since from the look of the decks you will often hit 5 lands max.

[@MTGGoldfish]

After reading the comments my biggest regret is that I didn't play a copy or two of Secret Salvage. I don't think it's quite as good as it seems on paper, but probably still should have tired a couple.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

MTGGoldfish just be glad you didn't fun into lost legacy.

[@randompeeps71]

Where’s the mimic? Where’s bontu’s monument? Where is the secret salvage? Where are the spicy cards??? Make a part two!

[@LedPESRule]

Mimic and Bontu's Monument are pretty bad options (see above discussions). Though Bontu's monument with Secret Salvage could be viable maybe, though it still seems pretty janky

[@Enja_Near]

No. That's bad, inconsistent, and loses to graveyard hate. I've gone 1-16. It's awful and tilting.

[@randompeeps71]

Enja Near I’m not saying to make it a four of and a main component, just throw one in or put it in the sideboard for game two

[@randompeeps71]

LedPESRule exactly

[@randompeeps71]

LedPESRule Mimic is good on turn two, after that it’s tough, and monument is great for draining and beating with salvage

[@stephenlofton5403]

Going esper splashing blue for tetsuko I think would have been solid. The demands are not high mana wise as tetsuko comes down later as a finisher and you can still run Destiny. Plus it gives you sideboard access to negate, Pierce etc even just 6 sources would do. forebears blade is insane but you really need a first strike or unblockable effect imo. Also- don't underestimate Shivan Dragon it may be big and dorky but it's still incredibly powerful if you ramp into it and it goes unanswered.

[@nicklittle8399]

Congratulations @SaffronOlive, you broke yiur previous record!! You somehow managed to say the word "rat" or "rats" EIGHTY SEVEN times in your opening xD. I'm so proud, you've grown up so fast!!

[@DuffyElmer]

Did you give Shalai, Voice of Plenty a try? It seems like blanking targeted removal and Settle the Wreckage would be excellent in this deck. It also seems like Forebear's blade would frequently end up stuck in your hand for a long time - perhaps consider swapping a couple of one for the other?

[@MTGGoldfish]

Shalai could be a good addition.

[@sendaran]

Since you want the maximum amount of rats on the board, go esper with a very light blue splash, not for Tetsuko, but for Arcane Adaptation, then trow in Oketra's Monument and you get 2 rats for each rat card. Could also run a couple of Shalai for protection, splash a couple of dual lands and you could even occasionally put some counters on the rats if the game drags on.

[@carter9449]

I think secret salvage might better than dusk dawn for refilling against control

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Carter dusk also works as a wrath though.

[@MTGGoldfish]

I think it's close. Dusk//Dawn is helpful against Lyra and Mono-Green in specific, but Secret Salvage is probably better at just drawing a ton of Rats.

[@allankhanjani1948]

At 34:16 you could have played the isolated chapel, played the radiant destiny, sacked your left rat to the blood fast land to gain 4. Dusk and gideon wouldn’t be enough to kill you. You would have a turn or two of being alive to dawn back the rat and cast it, drawing a card off of the banner and possibly just rebuild your boardstate. This may have changed if opp had an answer but you still would have been alive if you did this

[@MTGUnpacked]

Fun! I was wondering what other builds were possible with Rat Colony other than UB. I’m thinking of trying Metallic Mimic...

[@Shigazane]

I find your lack of bontus monument disturbing. Rofl

[@drizzyrauvryar6992]

It's almost unnecessary because rat colony is so cheap and there is no card draw. By turn three you would want to dump more rats or pump a rat.

[@jeffpepper6987]

It's reach for late game and it fills the board quicker if you have vanquishers banner as well

[@drizzyrauvryar6992]

I really would only see it working with dusk to dawn(in this deck). It does empty your hand quickly, but it does just that. I think in a rat deck if you ain't winning you're losing. The reach is there but...

[@drizzyrauvryar6992]

Dump and pump

[@drizzyrauvryar6992]

I completely forgot vanquish draws a card 😅🤣

[@Firebird4Life]

I think Shalai could be a good addition to the deck to stop Walking Ballista from going nuts on our 1 Toughness creatures. If you want to splash green for the counters effect, it might also be good there too (maybe play some copies of Woodland Cemetery & Blooming Marsh)

[@joshuajoshua7671]

Dear Seth, I am wondering who is the illustrator behind all the artwork of mtggoldfish videos. Really love them and wish that some could be featured on a deck box or playmat.

[@mcfurie]

So i want to build around 4 lost legacy 4 ixalans binding 4 gidions intervention. Basicly shut thier deck down. Between sorceress spyglass, duress, divest, i can always see thier hand early. Puch cast down, seal away, will keep them at bay till i can get to the bigger spells. Basicly b/w prison in standard and then just get there on approach on turn 40 something or some other stupid win con. Is this viable? Any advice? Should i run a 3rd color? Red removal, green ramp? Is it possible you could build around this idea for a video?

[@alextita1356]

games start at 10:30

[@xxburichxx]

This is the real start.

[@PalPlays]

Who would skip the deck tech?

[@joecowey5055]

That Antiquities War deck looked cool, would you consider playing it on stream some time?

[@Alexhandre13]

I'm hopeful for Rat Colony, with a return to ravnica in october they're gonna have a lot more friends to tag along.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Rat lord plz.

[@alextita1356]

seth build a deck that is rat tribal with this card because it actually just says 1+ 0 for each rat, not each rat colony

[@GuyFromCanada]

No, it says "for each Rat Colony", you're thinking of relentless rats

[@christophercombs7561]

+ThatGuyFromCanada no alex is right

[@omegagaming609]

F O R E A C H O T H E R R A T Y O U C O N T R O L

[@sheepy403]

Reading the card explains the card

[@brighamschellinger147]

Well the other problem it there are two other rats in all of standard.

[@samueldionne9675]

Crazy idea: Rat Collected Company in Modern.

[@ImJustHereToWatch14]

Samuel Dionne seems like a worse Ball Lightning Company

[@thepleasantpuffin]

Coco Into Chittering Rats and Ravenous Rats.

[@christophercombs7561]

Samuel Dionne if its in modern you run relentless rats instead of rat colony first off then while you are at it bontus monument, door of destiny, and thrumming stone fir lands you run swarmyard, cavern of souls, and maybe mutavault then kill spells in black so your call really, probably yhenni's expertise or mutilate cause once you have 3 relentless rats out the -4/-4 cant kill them bit tons of other creatures die off run marrow gnawer in the sideboard vs decks that dont use black its doable just not with rat colony also i would only run like 17-19 rats probably only like 20-22 lands that way there is room for support and utility

[@MTGGoldfish]

A least Walking Ballista is less play in Modern (and you get other legit rats for support like Pack Rat).

[@senseibuh527]

Timberpack wolf is strictly better (If I remember the card correctly)

[@maxpheby7287]

So with Forebears blade how is the rat wielding it? Or are you throwing the blade with a rat taped to it?

[@nerdywayfinder1827]

No secret salvage?

[@kyleblecha1]

You know what is against the odds?? Knowing him as Seth rather than Saffronolive.

[@lordpepov7593]

Nice Deck. Question: Why are you shuffling your handcards?

[@bryantan4228]

That Shivan Dragon deck looked really sweet. I hope we can vote for it at some point

[@soonerj97]

Is Immortal sun not better than Banner? Especially in this standard?

[@SkittleWolf]

I play BG Rats for access to naturalize since ixalans binding kills your whole deck. Green also allows for heroic intervention. Bontu's Monument is almost a must in this deck. Nothing feels better than turn 3 monument into dumping 3-4 rats the next turn.

[@overweightactor]

What is the point of the deck at 20:00? It's just 4c removal tribal?

[@stormcrow1685]

-2 rats +2 Secret Salvage -2 Dusk +2 Metallic Mimic -3 Forebear’s Blade +2 Divest +1 Settle the Wreckage Sb: -2 Dusk +2 Karn, Scion of Urza

[@MTGGoldfish]

Interesting idea.

[@strictlyworse_mk7108]

My only gripe with this deck is that it doesn’t run either bontu’s monument or metallic mimic. Both would be very good in the deck

[@blazenjestergames4025]

I have to applaud you for trying your hand at this deck, I think that 20 Rats is too many maybe dropping to 16 and put in Gideon of the Trails or Settles and so forth

[@ast8177]

is there a black *card like Radiant Destiny?* to push my def?

[@WBWhiting]

Golgari Rats seems like it might be a better way to take the deck. Shapers' Sanctuary and Blossoming Defense against single target removal, Heroic Intervention to save from boardwipes, your rats pump each other enough that you don't need banners if you can keep them alive.

[@TheJoKse]

thought about Bontu's Monument? for maybe a blade or 2?

[@prettypanduh]

I saw a blue black version with the one unblockable legendary and it was sick

[@shawnwilson7355]

QQ DO YOU PLAY WITH RENOUN CREATURES WILL MAKE BETTER anafenza,kintree spirit

[@darbasti1443]

Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugative. Im running 3 in my UB rats list. Spell pierce fits nicely into the awkward turns 3 and 5. Sure you don't get dusk/dawn. I dont think i've ever had a game where i felt i would need it however. You usually just win by turn 5. Blink of an eye answer's the random ixalan's bindings/walkers/everything well enough. I for sure have never felt I needed +1 toughness from radiant destiny.

[@mew174]

I like the blue version of this for that 2 drop legend that makes the rats unlockable and gives u negate. I feel that radiant destiny is too cute

[@Folfire]

Seth, wht would you change for Arena cause I see the bulk of the deck is in Arena (maybe vicious offering instead of fatal push), but not having sideboard is the thing

[@MTGGoldfish]

Vicious Offering for fatal push sound good, otherwise I think most (or all?) of the non-lands should be legal in Arena.

[@jplxlabelle1681]

How about some Unblockable effects? Like an equip or Artful dodge type stuff. A white instant that gives protection from a colour is often Unblockable. There is a good one from New phyrexia for 1w and the white is phyrexian white. Paid for by 2 life and one colorless at instant speed is as good as a counterspell for 1 against 1 for 1 removal. Like fatal push.

[@d_andrews]

This is Standard. New Phyrexia hasn't been Standard legal for a very long time.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Those are some fun ideas, Standard makes it hard though.

[@curtisk3169]

You should spice it up with Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive just to make the master splinters unblockable

[@adrianlonghinlam9198]

Will Bontu's Monument be good in this deck?

[@MTGGoldfish]

I could see trying it, but it doesn't really help fix the decks issues. Dumping more Rats on turn four could be sweet though, and the drain can add up eventually.

[@GoronRob]

41:35 Seth lets out a sad "sweet"

[@sethchapman1425]

Draw Go seems like it could be a thing in standard right now. Old school blue. Just putting it out there for an idea.

[@SiraZero]

Seth, this rat build of you is pretty bad.... Where is mimic, secret salvage, Karn and bontu monument? It's against the odds not a budget magic. It's not enough synergy in there. The sword equipment is also bad. It's like double against the odds.

[@cicjose6016]

its against the odds the deck isnt supposed to win

[@AhranMaoDante]

Paul, that sounds like an excuse if ever I heard one. As a breakdown of that logic: If it isn't supposed to win, then what's the point? To have fun? If having fun is the point, then why scrap the idea of UB because of 1 loss? Especially when the loss had more to do with not having answers to big creature spells and being mana flooded than the deck just not working; which lends itself to poor deck building skills as many are criticizing. If you give up on having fun because you lose 1 time, then you are the type of person who equates winning with fun, at which point regardless of whether the deck is "against the odds" it's supposed to win, it needs to win, or you can't have fun.

[@cicjose6016]

there's a difference between building a good deck with stupid cards like Rat Colony or just building a bad deck

[@MTGGoldfish]

Maybe I should have went a different direction. I tried a Tetsuko build and found it even worse, but Secret Salvage could be sweet. As for Karn, I intentionally didn't want to play Karn in this one.

[@SiraZero]

MTGGoldfish I can see why you don’t want to play Karn. You don’t want the deck to win with the extremely good card. But you actually test the deck with the competitive league where almost everyone has Karn. If you don’t play one, your deck will be below average standard. I think the point of against the odds is to kind of prove that the particular card can win or not. I think the build should be optimal as possible to see if this particular card can shine. Anyway, Seth, I’m your big fan. Please don’t feel discouraged by my comment. I just want you to have the better contents.

[@GoronRob]

33:32 why not attack? Fearing a settle?

[@drizzyrauvryar6992]

Cant wait to see what you have up your sleeve for next weeks vote!

[@slobodanvesela4149]

No joke, i had played a rat colony deck today and i finished first ! ( with 8 players ) :D sorry for my english. I used a blue/black deck with tetsuko, few control / remove cards, few draw cards, and 20 colony rat ^^ I kill at 5th turn generaly.

[@ThomasJohnsen2]

Can't believe you spoiled LSV's PT deck :D Thought the deck-name was a bit boring, until I realized that 'twenty rats' would inspire a somewhat unfortunate name :) Always enjoy your content - both here and in SSL. You're the best!

[@MTGGoldfish]

Thanks!

[@ZadrickJohnLTeves]

what happens if they get ixalan's binding lol

[@wildguess1244]

39:39 Never heard anyone so mad at double Ornathopter

[@Allwebcodesign]

Maybe a couple Bontu's Last Reckoning would give you some board wipes.

[@drye135]

I haven't watched the whole video yet but is goblin chainwhirler not played anymore?

[@MTGGoldfish]

It still sees play, but not as much as it has been at some points in the past.

[@drye135]

@@MTGGoldfish I feel really dumb I watched half the video before I realized it was over 7 months old

[@Vancity3]

21:00 Anyone else hear Alexa talking in the background cause Seth called out Bounty of the Luxa? Made me lol

[@StevenFonte]

Well I knew this one was boring but the image on the video was hilarious

[@jeffreydenenberg7101]

No tetsuko umezawa? EDIT: commented this just before he mentioned trying U/B

[@DonovanPresents]

How about a Rat Pauper deck?

[@bryantan4228]

34:08 Your out was sacrifice a rat to Temple to gain 4 life, Dusk to clear the non Gideons, and pray to draw what you need

[@Archivold]

Seth would you consider playing pauper rats for a video?

[@gamernotvalid9452]

So basically a chainwhirler/ballista burn deck will fuck this deck up? I paused at 2 minutes btw. Still seeing if there are any hexproof or things of the sort to protect against.

[@keilanl1784]

"Play our rats, draw some cards..."

[@Battleshockstudio]

Secret salvage n bontus monument 🍺

[@Lucifer0the0morning]

GPG and gate to the afterlife would have made your rats harder to get rid, and will probably help you cycle through cards.

[@SixEighthOfficial]

I think the blue black version is alot faster/harder to disrupt

[@Lumpyspacejams]

I am surprised no Secret Salvage in this decklist!??

[@KhaosTy]

I think the real question is whether this can beat GW Cats.

[@prufrock1977]

Rat Colony GPG?

[@KensanOni]

I am so disappointed we did not go the janky Tetsuko route... but happy to see the deck, anyway.

[@RiskyBiscuit]

9:43 hottest bars of 2018, I hope I hear that on your mixtape

[@maxnathe4862]

While this is cool, I prefer the UB version with bontu’s and Tetsuko. Seems like it has better reach

[@whosilence]

No-one tried an Esper version for best of both worlds?

[@joelp7775]

Rat colony's true home is as a pauper legend

[@Bottles7]

Bontu’s monument?

[@adrunkpotato4742]

You could run bontu's monument, halves the cost of your creatures and gets in extra burn

[@TheDarkliesra222]

So bantu monument?

[@miketate3445]

Paw blade?

[@Roland001111]

The punt at 34:08. Had the mana to do everything, should have gone desiny pre combat then sac one attacking rat to temple and dusk. Gideon vs 1 ratty boi and 4 more from grave...

[@zimrankroe6424]

Could have lived at 34:10 by playing Isolated Chapel, Radiant Destiny, sac rat to Temple to gain 4 and go up to 5, then Dusk. Wouldn't die to gideon, and had dawn next turn to refill his board. Opp would have had to topdeck a counterspell in order to stop seth from winning.

[@PlutoDarknight]

Next ATO being 5c God Tribal in Modern?

[@hellsingfan89]

So... ixalans binding kills your deck?

[@juanjoseguaringarcia2500]

Secret salvage is insane with this Deck...

[@brighamschellinger147]

I'm amazed you ran without running into mono Red or R/B. Chain whirlers man.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Yeah, Chainwhirler ranks alongside Walking Ballista on the "reasons it's really hard to win with Rats" list.

[@DeclanCC]

1:35 I don't think "Unique" means what you think it means Seth.

[@davidgoldstein4306]

Why no Tetsuko?

[@ericd1022]

David Gold he said he lost to a welcome deck with the UB version which made him want to try something different

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

David Gold I would play a rew blue duals and splash for maybe 3

[@myeon4866]

So next against the odd will be....?

[@MTGGoldfish]

A secret!

[@ancao2555]

It seemed like UB lost to mana flood rather than anything the opponent actually did though...

[@ocha-time]

I keep trying to make rats work in MTGA... so many of these decklists suffer needlessly with Wotc's decision to delay implementation of Aether Revolt/Kaladesh. I get it, they're cycling soon, but stuff like Rats is completely unplayable without good, efficient removal. Went from Platinum Rank 3 to Gold Rank 2 trying to get Rats to pop off; most of my wins were from concessions or disconnected opponents. Feelsbad

[@PalPlays]

Man...Seth basically got a week off from Against the Odds this go around. I typically vote for the card that is the most difficult to brew, so I'm disappointed to see that this won the poll. Hopefully next week makes up for it.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Special episode next week. I think it should be fun. You are right that there's less brewing with Rats, because more than half of your non-land cards are already chosen ahead of time.

[@PalPlays]

Just to clarify: I'm not disappointed about the episode. As always I enjoy the content on this channel. I was just disappointed that we (the community) voted for Rat Colony.

[@jasonmarano5718]

metallic mimic???

[@netanelaker4437]

Take a shot everytime Seth says "Rat Colony".

[@outshimed]

Hooooooow are you not running Secret Salvage?

[@MTGGoldfish]

Maybe I should have.

[@legacysquid0625]

I honestly would add more Ixalan a binding , play all 4 I say