Age of Emprires 4 - Lucifron (Delhi) vs TheViper (Chinese) - Pro Casted Game

[@YourTamedLion]

Mind blowing Delhi ideas AGAIN from lucifron/vortix. Even though he lost, it was super impressive. They do things nobody else showed before. Gotta try this out myself.

[@FitzBro]

Let me know how it works out! I haven't tried this out myself yet. You could tell I was quite surprised!

[@CABALlc1]

I think if it was against any other civ that Delhi opening would have been so much better. Those 10s springalds are insane. Considering he can also supervise gold and wood it's really viable. Both players showing great builds tbh. Having the building rate speed bonus means he can get early castle control with the springalds, and as Fitz said, that 300hp makes them into tanks. The unit is just stupid. IMO, they don't need only a damage nerf, they need to have their base attack speed and movement speed reduced (bombards too), alternatively to the movement speed perhaps an increased setup time. Right now there is too little of a risk positioning the siege units unprotected. Those units are not siege units the way they are, they are AWP snipers. How are mass bombards even able to hit with 100% accuracy against units that are small and quick? IMO, bombards and springalds should not be able to target normal units, or at least they should have a reduced chance to hit. They should not be making up the bulk of the army. Their power is so over tuned I fear that the initial nerf may not be enough.

[@YourTamedLion]

@@FitzBro just played it with a buddy in 2v2. The super fast timing ( 2:36 barracks + 4:10 potential sanctity finish ) allowed for uncontestet cap on "king of the hill". So even if it only gives 200 gold/min on that map it is strong because you can set up the win condition easier. No scouts messing with spearmen. Fast towers+Walls. Mind Gold manually and go from there. 2 games on mongolian heights: control of 1 sacred site from start to finish. Since it is not so fast if you dont hold 2, I had to build multiple walls to slow them down until castle age push. But it still was fine. 1 game on lipany: scouted the 2 sacred sites which are close to each other. With towers and some early troops, we could hold both sacred sites very long. Long enough to get to castle and get the timing push on them. I think this will be my new default BO unless for specific match up like england and HRE. Because staying in dark age so long vs longbow spam and eventual man at arms is probably too risky.

[@jeromemartel3916]

hum aussie has a 4:30 3 sites capture video on his twitch.

[@HagalSkrymir999]

The palisades from Viper were great too. Denying Lucifron an easy and fast way to two sacred sites, while forcing/funneling him through the Middle where Vipers troops were. Great strategy and play from both.

[@Nythrix1000]

The weakness he had in this game was building tower with only 1 worker and the tower of victory may be in fact very useful built near a sacred site, you earn HUGE money from 2 sacred sites that the 50% cheaper imam isn't usefull anymore. Then build mini bases near each sacred sites with mosqs near to spam imams in army buildings ; build walls with soldiers, stone walls next... infinite defense with Dehli !

[@Muenni]

Why would you pull back spears when they've already reached the springald? Viper didn't even have archers left to counter them! 4 spears do 92 dmg per torch attack, with twice the attack speed of the springald - and they cost less than the springald! Lucifron had such a good trade waiting at 10:33, but pulled back right before his spears could attack. Can somebody explain this to me?

[@Muenni]

Isn't the entire advantage of double mosques faster access to efficient production? He isn't able to utilize that before 8:20 anyhow. Or is it because the extra Scholar being produced would slow down getting Sanctity too much? He gets Sanctity at 4:30. I think it takes 4:05 min to research with 1 scholar and and 3:22 with 2 scholars. An extra scholar takes 45 sec, so you'd be finished at the same time with 2 scholars and one mosque. Lucifrin had his first mosque up at 0:35 and the gold ready, meaning he could have a second scholar at 1:20 and Sanctity at 4:42 with a single mosque. He'd have Efficient Production researched with zero garrisoned scholars at 8:27 (assuming instant clicking, so a bit later). He'd get there faster if he produced another scholar in that time (which he of course did). I forgot that you might want to eject your scholars shortly before reaching the tech to walk them over in time, so realistically you'd get sanctity a bit more than 12 seconds later... watching again, I see he sent out his scholars at 3:35. So with one mosque you would have to eject them after 2:40 seconds of 2-scholar-research, so at the 4 minute mark. You'd have sanctity at the 5 minute mark. Now it makes more sense to me: 30 seconds more of a sacred site mean 100 extra gold - per sacred site. On the other hand, you can get efficient production in time to actually use it either way (if you build more than 2 scholars) AND not investing the 100 wood until later on means you can get a lumber camp without having to use straggler trees and get its research started earlier (essentielly some extra wood production) AND a mill with earlier wheelbarrow or survival techniques, improving your food production earlier. The extra food and wood means earlier barracks/spears if needed or an earlier outpost (which would've come in handy in this game) or walls. On the flipside you'll have 100 gold less at 5:30, 200 at 5:50 if you'd otherwise have gotten two sacred sites uncontested. And it leaves more time for your opponent to contest the sites, though mitigated by early spears/outpost/walls.

[@YourTamedLion]

Just play the build. At 4:10 you have BOTH sanctity and efficient production ready. At that point you already have a barracks, If you want you can advantage of double production. He has the option. Any other build would Not have this Option. you can focus on taking one sacred site by garrisoning 1 scholar into barracks and 1 scholar capturing the sacred site while you have overwhelming Numbers of spearmen. That also allows to Set Up Towers or walls If you wish. Single mosque cannot give you both upgrades this early. The advantage of single mosque ( No additional scholar ) would be to age up faster and get access to horsemen and archers. But against other civs than england they need to age up AND build a archery range and then start massing archers before they really counter the spearmen. At 4:10-4:20 when you can be on the Point with troops (being Double produced ) and start capturing there is no way you get hard countered. If you want the precise build: search GL.TheViper and Check His replays. Lucifron7 sadly has hidden his match history/replays.

[@ShaggyLunchCake]

Stop pretending to be a "random guy from the internet" spirit of the law. You can't fool anyone

[@Muenni]

@@ShaggyLunchCake haha, thanks for the compliment!

[@InstaGraham]

Great videos, man! Keep them coming!

[@dragonscaleshields]

Springald is such an ugly looking siege weapon and since they didn't add troop models to it, it looks even more goofy moving around on its own. It moves like a space rover like those sent to mars. Maybe someday they will replace those glowing piss colour dudes which magically appear on siege weapons with actual dudes pushing and loading the siege engines. 17:32 AOE3 did artillery right: it had a crew, animations for packing and unpacking, loading animations and recoil when fired. Siege weapons in AOE4 look degenerate.

[@compoundme4809]

I first saw this build from TheViper on hill & dale about 5 days ago and was mindblown he could capture 2 sacred sites at 4:30. Viper also did something super smart with the starting vills that mine gold, he sends them to build a lumber camp so they drop off gold automatically.

[@vishnuss7740]

That was a unique opening. Would really like the break down of the build along with some improvements. I feel this could really be helpful in team games. BTW really like your videos 🔥🔥.

[@jigzo78]

Maybe a little bit greedy not committing infantry walls to the sacred sites. Would've ensured the outpost went up.

[@Tom3K_grabarzzzz]

Delhi player could have easily walled off the northen ss or western one and keep it for long instead of beeing forced to fight over the middle one. I think you should go for the side ones secure position and wall it off in order to have reliable source of gold coming for this strat to be effective, on this map this strat seems solid just the exectuion was wrong but nice idea tho.

[@MrTarrasque]

I LOVE this opening

[@Bruteel]

Got to admit, he was a bit stubborn of forgetful about not collecting those relics which he literally ran past to capture the sacred site while in the castle age

[@Viciousotk1]

That was a great game, but i think he didnt exploit the ability to build walls with infantry.

[@Blender3DProjects]

My thoughts exactly, viper would have had to switch it up if he had made some stone walls on the sites. Such wallable positions too

[@alexistan5048]

Hi, good work here, any possibilities to watch by myself the recorded game ?

[@barsni4779]

Interesting idea, dies to early agression. The timings and the towers could be perfected, but there is a reason it was used against chinese.

[@chronographer]

Wow, one of the best games I've seen. So many of the interesting civ bonus' used. Early sacred sites. Supervising the clocktower. Forced march MAA! Not to mention the nice map awareness and tech switches on both sides.

[@Pads0ld]

imagin playing whitout goldmining lol

[@emohung1172]

Once springald gets tune down, I wonder if mangonel be the next thing people build instead

[@bomjus1706]

springalds being tuned down won't change their anti siege nature though. if springalds are nerfed, mangonels won't suddenly be more popular. springalds will still be built to answer mangonel spam.

[@emohung1172]

I mean, right now they are used so much because of their high base damage and high range. You can safely pick off units with them, but if they tune it down to like 30 base and rest move to siege dmg, perhaps people will make something else

[@dunzhen]

Don't China need it tho? I always hear about how weak China is in this game

[@emohung1172]

They are great once you can get those gunpowder units, if anything I think this mass springald is suppressing them. People start mass rushing springald at age 3, and the pressure is insane as they slowly getting free value. Your gunpowder units are not really effective against them, I think you would want palace guard to run them down. China having Springald with more hp is great, but that is not their main strength. Once springald gets tune down and games don't end at age 3 where people just go siege engineer and mass build springald at enemy's base, China would be able to put their amazing gunpower to use.

[@dragonscaleshields]

@@emohung1172 I don't think they need to nerf damage, just nerf range and movespeed. Springalds are broken because how safe they are with 10 range and also have decent movespeed and practically no pack, unpack time.

[@igorviniciustrombettadeoli2602]

The dynasties only show up when Player 1 is playing Chinese. If any other player is playing the faction, the dynasties do not show up. God knows why

[@rachityadav6404]

What do you do in this case if the opponent opens with archers?

[@dekumutant]

Normally you'll always want to build at least a few spears at the very start, if you see archers use the spearmen to put down walls ASAP and rely on towers until you can get your own archery range up. Its especially good if there's a choke as archers are garbage at getting through palisades

[@Youtuber111-p2x]

why does delhi start with 250 lumber

[@FitzBro]

To build a mosque

[@IPromiseTomorrow]

Wait a second I got an optimization for this. Instead of using 150+40 (190) wood to make a barracks. Use your stock Scout to guard your Scholar from wolves This way you'll rush Sacred sites before 4:30. Just use the stock Scholar.

[@jolu1621]

No Walls with Delhi 😡

[@nopurposeposting1548]

Rus scarier than clocktower usually due to the range, its longest among others springald

[@scottcairns2933]

Extra range but only after imperial age research, Chinese can start making clock tower springs the moment they age up to castle and with a 10 second production time.

[@hadoblado]

@@scottcairns2933 Exactly. Chinese castle age is an enormous powerspike requiring no additional tech or buildings to power out the equivelent of 3 siege workshops creating springalds that are 1.5x as powerful. Rus springalds are great but they require Imperial age and additional infrastructure. Worth mentioning that mongol springald upgrades very nicely and seems under-rated in the later game.

[@cyrusol]

DauT tower.

[@elnorro]

Very creative from Lucifron but age 3 springalds control is just too strong

[@YourTamedLion]

Springalds will get nerfed luckily - confirmed by the Balance lead dev. Cant wait for the big patch.

[@BeckJoseR]

Does Lucifron not like Relics? So many missed opportunities.

[@Muenni]

When exactly? He couldn't before Age III, retook one of the sacred sites only at 15:45 and was immediately pushed off it again. Could've chosen the relic as a safer bet with half the income, but taking it after retaking the sacred site would've been so much better. Sadly his scholar was killed in the counterattack. He did hold on to the sacred site until 18:20 though, so it paid off with almost 600 gold, so more than the relic would've given him by the end of the match.

[@allenantonioheyllatorre5720]

I think lucifront biggest mistakes was rushing the sacred sites instead of relic pickup he coulda picked up relics ez then gone for sacred site pressure

[@TheJBerg]

You cannot pick up Relics until age 3