Age of Sigmar General's Handbook - What I Think

[@Moquai88]

The thing with the points for multiple minimum sized groups is, that you just can't always represent the value of model on the field by points/model.I'm not much into Age of Sigmar and don't own the book, but regarding some warscrolls (mainly for skaven), the units don't “work“ the same way as in 8th edition. One more model doesn't just give you one Attack and one more wound (and maybe an additional complete rank). In AoS the units often get abilities when “there are at least 10 models“ and stuff like this. So the difference between fielding 18 models or 20 might not just be 2 wounds and 2 attacks, but if the whole unit gets +1 to hit or a reroll of some kind etc.Therefore you can't clearly measure the value of a single model, but of a minimum sized group of models.

[@larrybarba7757]

This was Pretty much what I was going to say. Many Units get buffed at each increment, so its a matter of balancing the multipliers at each tier..

[@jonbordas932]

While this is true, you also have to take into account that if there were no benefits for making larger units (if you have 30 models in a unit you get +X) nor penalties for making smaller units, most of the time it would be strictly better to field many smaller units. Sure, while many small units are less vulnerable to debuffs/enemy spells or abilities (this is huge btw, if you have a unit of 30 models, an Eldritch Council Darkseer can wipe it entirely in 1 hero phase, whereas if you have 3 units of 10, that's not possible), they also benefit less from buffs. Also, many small units mean many captains (captains usualy have more attacks than a regular dude) and a bigger spread of any aura that unit may have, but the real advantage is that a smaller unit suffers a lot less from battleshock. Another reason i can see for giving some units advantages when in big numbers is plain marketing. It makes sense that they want to sell many boxes of Glade Guard because thematicaly they are just a bunch of cheap, crappy elves with bows, whereas it doesn't make sense to push buying big units of varanguard, who are a few very expensive, awesome looking models that will sell on their own without you pushing them.

[@leeroyjenkins552]

The compendium is composed of characters and models that by lore didn't live through the end times (ie the models are no longer available, or are soon to be tomb kinged). It's so that people with these models can still play matched play, which is good, but it's it's own section so that new players don't miss understand that some models/characters are only being played for nostalgia.

[@TheMuiz87]

Yeah thats what it mean

[@nicky8866]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh ,, thank you :)

[@tabletopminions]

Glad they did it. Thanks for watching!

[@RadioFreeHammerhal]

the compendium section is all of the discontinued models that have war scrolls for them. the original scrolls they put out were the Compendiums. Anything that was updated and included in other books is in the 4 grand alliance sections. the compendiums are the things that are no longer being produced that were in the Compensium scrolls.

[@JohnWestIV]

Yup! I have played a game using the matched play... and I had to use points from the Wood Elves and Wanderers sections to do this. I'll say the points work out quite well and it was a blast to play. You don't have to make the points hit even... we did 1500 and both of us were under by 40 points and ran with it.

[@brutismaximus1]

Yep also just had a game using the points system. Hell of a lot of fun. Seems like Warhammer 9th edition. 8th seems old and clunky now.

[@tabletopminions]

Interesting. I'll have to check it out. Thanks for watching!

[@Dragoon670]

I'm a huge fan of the kind of beginner AoS commentary you've been making. I got sucked in immediately with the sylvaneth release and It's good to see some high quality content that's focused on enjoying the game and the models instead of just being the most badass general one can be.

[@tabletopminions]

I am certainly not a badass general, that's for sure. Thanks for watching!

[@Stainlesssteele4]

Atom, the Compendium includes point values for models that have been discontinued or renamed, such as the old Beastmen (not to be confused with the new 'Brayherd') or Warriors of Chaos (again, not to be confused with the new 'Slaves to Darkness').

[@tabletopminions]

Got it. Thanks for watching!

[@ghosthawks]

The points allocated for an army (i.e. 1k, 2k, etc) is used as a guideline for Pitched Battles, where players can compare their excess points leftover to determine who gets to roll on the Triumphs table (pg. 109) to receive a benefit for a unit rather than trying to swap Warscrolls to hit the limit exactly.

[@mattliguori2745]

I've been debating jumping into AoS for a while, and once I saw they were coming out with this book I knew I wanted to see what you had to say about it before I bought it. Easy to say you've got me sold on it. Thanks.

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear it. Thanks for watching!

[@nova3k]

The compendiums section is the profiles of all the discontinued minis and ranges. They are completely legal in tournament play and such (because they gave them points). The GHB is an awesome book and the only book I really highly recommend people buy if they want to get into AoS, or even if you're on the fence about it.

[@terrainmancer6272]

Thanks Adam. I was on the fence with Age of Sigmar, but you have encouraged me to give it a chance.

[@tabletopminions]

Sounds great! It's a good game, I think. Thanks for watching!

[@Errorzero]

Uncle Atom, I believe that the reason they've gone and locked in the multiples is due to the fact that each point value is a multiple of 20. Single model cost might push more towards min/maxing that would cause them to have to re-visit the costs.

[@darylewart625]

As others have said before, the Compendium section is for models that are no longer part of a specific faction "repackage." However what GW have done, and it's a nice change to see them do this, is to allow people with "older" models to still take part in the game. Also, regarding being slightly over or slightly under the points bracket in Matched Play eg. You have 1020 points and your opponent has 990, then the person with the lower points gets to use the Triumph table which gives them a one off special bonus such as a re-roll. Similar to the Sudden Death rules in Open Play.

[@tabletopminions]

That'll probably help. Thanks for watching!

[@TheCaptnChunk]

If you look the minimum model counts for points are the size of what comes in one box. It's why weird things happened like the warscroll of Knights of the Realm says "5 or more knights" but the minimum unit is 8 and their special rule needs 10. You'd have to field 16 Knights of the Realm (2 units) to get their special rule for having 10 or more. And peasant bowmen are minimum 16 but need 20 to get an extra special rule. So you'd have to take 32 to get it even though you only need 4 more.

[@Kyle_McQ]

Most of the age of sigmar products sold at my local stores end up being used for various 40k armies, though interest in actually playing AoS has increased significantly with the new book and start collecting boxes.

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear the book is helping. Thanks for watching!

[@roadytn]

I think the a reason for a understrength rule is that they tried to simplify the points system. Take the Orruk Ardboys as an axample. You've got a boss, a banner-guy and a drummer in this unit. They all provide special rules that I think are calculated in the unit's points. So you can't say that each of the 10 models has exactly the same point value. So to avoid giving special models an extra point value I think GW said: hey, for 180 point you get a howl unit containing 10 models and it's up to you to play them all or not. They also gave points to Warscroll Batalions and for me it works pretty fine because I fill the points that I need to get to 1000 or 2000 with these Batalion point. But hey, its up to you and your opponent to agree on "houserules" that allow to divide the points for a unit with the number of models and to use the result as points per model and so ignoring the understrength rule.

[@tabletopminions]

I *do* love house rules. Thanks for watching!

[@yewsoonchristopherkoh5281]

Thanks for the review. One of the reason for the point cost in multiples is based upon the number of models in a box eg for the Empire knights they were sold in a nultiple of 8 per box. As for the compedium its for the "discontinued races/mode;ls" eg brettonian so that a player can still use their old 8th ed armies.

[@noahfreel2605]

my little brother and myself were talking about the points and our theory is that your suppose to only take the minimum to keep unit sizes close for tourney play. Most buffs for units come into effect if the unit's troop count is doubled or tripled

[@tabletopminions]

Makes some sense, certainly. Thanks for watching!

[@joemoe974]

If you look at all the categories under the Compendium section, you'll notice that it's categorized by all of the old Warhammer faction names - Empire, Bretonnia, etc. This is GW giving AOS point values to all the old models so that you can use all your old armies. Of course, you can still play without points and use the warscrolls for the old models that GW has had available for free since AOS was launched. But essentially the Compendium consists of all the armies as they were named in Warhammer 8th Edition and before.

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad they did it. Thanks for watching!

[@WoffBoot]

I think the General's Handbook is a great addition to Age of Sigmar, which seems to be going from strength to strength as it finds its own aesthetic and engages with the community. The 'Compendium' lists seem to be intended to sweep up the extra models that aren't destined to be incorporated into the new subfactions, but so people can still play with them (a nice touch, and one I appreciate). As for increasing units by multiples: my guess is that it's trying to link more closely with their stock, since the unit sizes generally match the numbers sold, so you can 'play out of the box' (not something you could always do in WFB). There's also the case that, for example, 80pts buys you 10xGor PLUS a champion, banner and musician, so it's not a clear as 1xGor=8pts. Ultimately, if you have non-standard numbers of troops (as I do), there's always Open Play.

[@tabletopminions]

I agree with everything you're saying here. Thanks for watching!

[@jonbordas932]

The way I understand the two paragraphs you showed about "Under-strength units" and the way I've been playing so far is, taking a unit of Glade Guard as an example: if you want to field a unit of 10 Glade Guards and then another unit of 7 Glade Guards, who will operate as a separate entity to the unit of 10, you have to pay the full price for that second unit. However, if you want to field a single undivided unit of 17, you can calculate how much an individual glade guard costs and add it to the cost of the unit. Check the text, it says "you do not have the models to field a unit at full strength", but in the warscrolls, a unit of Glade Guard is 10 or more models, meaning 17 models is more than full strength, but a separate unit of 7 is not.

[@tabletopminions]

Hmmm... maybe. Most people don't seem to be taking it that way, but it sounds reasonable. I'll have to look into it more. Thanks for watching!

[@jeffzcubfan]

The Compendium section is there to cover figures that pre-existed Age of Sigmar, but are not planned to be used as major figures going forward. You'll notice that many of these figures are no longer offered on the GW web store. This will let people with pre-existing armies play with their figures, but you may not get Allegiance trait advantages that are now being published in the newer Battletome releases. You will notice with Sylvaneth armies have figures that are NOT in the new Sylvaneth list, but are in the Compendium. If you use the old figures you can get the Order Allegiance traits, but you can't get the Sylvaneth traits. For my opinion, the point classifications are based simply upon the new packaging of Figs. Example: Orruk Gore-Gruntas. They are 180 pts for 3 figures. That is how they are sold packaged. Simple. Everything is in multiples of how they are sold for the most part. There are excepts but there are reasons to give you options on weapons. So this is really about ignoring what you had before and now based upon what is the new generation of figs sold in their product line.

[@Da40kOrks]

I just signed up for a 2000pt tournament in a couple months. We'll see how that goes.

[@tabletopminions]

Good luck in it. Thanks for watching!

[@jessesmallwood110]

Yeah I think that the 40k method for unit composition makes the most sense. In order to take a unit, it makes sense to me to have a mandatory minimum composition, and pay per additional model. So yeah I agree with you Uncle Atom.

[@thegodofgaming1140]

I've read it cover to cover I've had amazing battles because of the negative play section.you also helped me to decide if to buy it so thanks Atom

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to help. Thanks for watching!

[@521wallace]

I have played 5 or so games with points all have been 1000 point games and I am loving it. All of the games went to turn 5 without either player ever feeling like they were running away with the game. It feels really balanced. I did play one game were it didn't feel very balanced, but that was the result of the specific battle plan and the fact that my opponent got a double turn.

[@tabletopminions]

I hope to have the time to try out a 1000-point game soon, just to give it a shot. Thanks for watching!

[@danbrugman4838]

The points work out great. It is often hard to hit the exact total(1000, 2000, 2500, etc.) but if one player has less points than the other that players get a triumph to compensate. As far as the minimum increments it's actually a good thing. It speeds up list building, and prevents fiddling for advantage. Also the division only works for some units; for example gors are 10 for 80 points, which works out neatly to 8 pts per model but prosecutors are 3 for 100 points which would work out to 33.333333 points per model, which no one wants to deal with.

[@tabletopminions]

True, that is crappy math. Thanks for watching!

[@Mithlinthar]

Hi! I'm sorry in advance for my poor English ;) About "Compendium profiles" - You can find "legacy" units in this section, for example- HE Tyrion or Bretonia units. You still can use this units in your Pitched Battles, but they're no longer supported etc. Also, these units are not included in any of Grand Alliance Books. Points values "per unit" were quite odd for me too, but it makes a sense with summoning and reinforcements points. There are summoning spells/abilities with a radom results (like summoning 2d6 dryads, 10 Saurus or 20 Saurus if a casting result was "x"). It seems to be easier to calculate stuff like this IN Game and before game, when you're creating your army list. I believe you don't really need EXACTLY 2000 points for this "2000pts limit battle". An official GW "2000 points ready to play army" is worth.. 2040 points... ;) You can find this army on the GW website- Age Of Sigmar-> General's Handbook Collections-> Stormcast Eternals Matched Play Army. Thanks for your video!

[@tabletopminions]

I suppose it depends on your opponent. Thanks for watching!

[@anonymousgeoff5399]

If you are under the points (by more than your opponent) you get a bonus special rule for your army. This means there is less incentive to spend exactly to the points limit. I think block unit costs are to keep the maths simple, and avoid min-max detailed tweaking.

[@tabletopminions]

Makes sense. Thanks for watching!

[@UmbralLogic]

They images are probably taken from their headquarters in Nottingham, UK. When I went there, they had a multi-level building dedicated to huge amazing set pieces.

[@tabletopminions]

Cool. Thanks for watching!

[@patinho5589]

Even compendium units sometimes have the keyword 'order' (Using the AOS app to view stats for each unit. So many compendium units could be part of an army with the Order allegiance (all units have the keyword order).

[@IonArch1]

I'm A bit late to the Party, I have been playing Warhammer since 4th ed, just got back into it again, and I fell to the floor when I learned what had happened to the world. I tried playing AoS, I'm very happy playing the game and thinking of tactics vs "playing the rules". We play with point systems and its a lot of fun. The individual model points is a house rule we have so yeah we do play with different min-max models. like 15, to make up the left over point difference.

[@tabletopminions]

Glad you've gotten back into it with Age of Sigmar. Thanks for watching!

[@SoulCrusherEx]

compendium is for the Legacy Models u cant get from the shop anymore but u can still play em in the game

[@subaveragejoe2]

the points thing i think is 3 fold, 1 it makes buying ebay lots or w/e riskier compared to just buying boxes, 2 it makes listing building and much more importantly points balancing, much more simple, so now they can print a new general's handbook with slightly adjusted points and new battleplans every year and codex don't have to have points in them anymore 3. It limits the amount of min/mxing you can do to units.

[@Lannes03]

Got mine as well! Love the Warband progression stuff) Reminds me of the Realms of Chaos and Slaves to Darkness books back in the day. The future is looking brighter for AoS and all who love fantasy miniature gaming.

[@tabletopminions]

I totally agree. Thanks for watching!

[@jackhitchcock4054]

I think the reason that they did the points that way is because they don't think people will have an extra couple of models, considering they tend to sell models in groups that you could instantly use as a unit, e.g. 10 models. I do think it is a little silly however. I might use a price limit, e.g. the cost of models in pounds sterling rather than points.

[@joahnaut]

They show in the book a battle report and even the armies in that are not a flush 2000 points. We've been going with 2000 being a the guide line number and saying you have to aim between 1900 and 2100 in terms of points. It's resulted in games that were still consistently matched.

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear it. Thanks for watching!

[@baladingelt]

Regarding the point thingy, I would argue that: - First it may be seen as a marketing solution: damn I only have 2 models more but will pay the points of 10.. I need another box. (Which I find unlikey) - Second is that you are no longer restricted to only one banner/musician for each of your unit. It would have taken more place and more maths to say "for each mus/ban add x point" but that would mean you have to calculate for each army because all the banners/musicians have different effects depending on the army which may involve more complications regarding how to balance the game. - Third, unit size grants bonii. - Last but not least: you can mix weapon choices + add special weapons depending on the number.. that would take too many maths for a game that wants to be a simple one.

[@ahrimanormuzd]

2 reasons they do not have per model cost:1) there is a bid for the triumphs (pg 109), so no absolute waste of points 2) it prevents overly optimised lists to some extent. eg in 40k where everything down to a bolt pistol is there to min max the list

[@tabletopminions]

Sounds about right. Thanks for watching!

[@ThroneOfAngels]

Catching up on some vids Adam. The first thing that stands out to me that the Under Strength Unit rule is it prevents abuse on special weapon upgrades since there are no point costs on equipment. For example a unit of Liberators can take 1 Grandhammer or a Grandblade for every 5 models, if I add a sixth model...well I'm now into my second 5...so I'll just arm him with a Grandhammer for the cost of another single model added to the unit.

[@tabletopminions]

+ThroneOfAngels I don't read it working that way, would it? Because you don't have five more models. However, you *are* paying the points for them, so maybe that's good enough? I guess so. I'll have to look for a ruling somewhere and think about it. Thanks for watching!

[@scathezombie4973]

Point grouping seems to be a rule to make the game more accessible for new players. You play with the unit you get in the box. Older players are used to purchasing extra models off eBay or getting an additional set for only a few extra models to round out an odd-number unit. New players aren't and that's an additional complication and cost associated with match play that doesn't really add much to the game. Most of the time you didn't take 12 or 14 models in a unit because of any real tactics or army build, you did so mostly because you have X amount of points leftover and you were backfilling the best units with more wounds and attacks. There's not a whole lot lost by removing that and it makes a slightly easier on-ramp for new players if they don't have worry about it.

[@tabletopminions]

You're probably right. Thanks for watching!

[@saucyjack12]

Points don't have to be exactly at the cap. In the book itself there's a battle report where the Stormcast are 40 points over. Whichever side has the lower amount of points gets to pick a bonus from the triumph table. It seems the general consensus is that lists can be 20-40 points over the limit, but your opine net gets the bonus from the triumph table.

[@tabletopminions]

Sounds reasonable. Thanks for watching!

[@thelnorn1]

The grouping is to make it easier to set up quickly. Plus they sell them in most of those sizes, but they are a suggestion so divide it if needed. Do as you like of course. We are talking at our store about doing a ladder style campaign and I have just set up an October competitive event. I want to try it all, now please...I'm a little excited for the fun to ramp up. Thanks for the video, hope the new job is working out. (it's funny how that works, I see you every Friday, I enjoy the topics, and it is at this distance. Yet I feel it is ok to ask these type of questions that are none of my business.)

[@MiniGamePainter]

Agreed. Remember, play as you want. I would have minimums stated and then divide per model up to the max possible.

[@tabletopminions]

The new job is working out well. It's a bit of a drive, but I really enjoy it, and the drive isn't that bad, I've just been spoiled for the last 18 years by working in the city I live in. My commute is really only about 25 minutes, and I know that many people have much longer commutes. Thanks for watching!

[@whilehobbying]

Probably been said: Compendium is based on the old armies, the free warscrolls that was on the GW site. That is why Bretonnia and Tomb Kings are there. The other four Grand Alliances are the current armies.

[@Peter-jo4oi]

The compendium is all of the models that are not part of the smaller sub factions, mostly named characters.

[@srdies5289]

A friend and I tried a matched play at 1000 points, Bretonnia vs Nurgle daemons, playing the firt matched play battleplan. Looking at the armies we thought it was totally unbalanced (21 bretonnian models vs 37 daemons, including a GUO), but it ended up being a perfect match, with back and forth until the end. It's nice to see bretonnia powerful again. About the 'under-sized unit cost' , in my gaming group we will probably house rule it at cost per miniature.

[@JamieKaos]

I've yet to play a matched play game where it wasn't down to the wire. They did a great job with the points.

[@tabletopminions]

Great to hear. Thanks for watching!

[@Triceratopping]

Great review of a great book. I'm really looking forward to a points match between my Rotbringers and my friend's Ironjawz. As for being over/under the 1000/2000/3000 point margins, I wouldn't stress about it too much, as long as you and your opponent are roughly matched and have a good time.

[@tabletopminions]

True. Thanks for watching!

[@MrGunnar177]

The compendium section is all the oop models and the stuff that was killed off in the fluff as well as armies that are no longer available such as tomb kings and bretonniana

[@annoyingewok]

Should be getting mine today. The points will be helpful for me to get a balanced army (you can never tell with skaven). Thanks for the review. Compendium is where all the old warhammer fantasy goes, the stuff that isn't in the Age of Sigmar World (from the downloadable Warscroll Compendiums). Maybe they did the points like that because alot of units get bonuses for 20 or 30 models (like the skaven) so giving points per models wouldn't take that into account?

[@JohnnyH1982]

I am finally taking the plunge :D I'll be getting this book as soon as it gets restocked at my FLGS. Part of my original objection to AoS was the fact that it felt like a box of models with almost no rule set. I'm probably just curmudgeonly but I want a "rule book" with my game. Anyway this looks like it really wraps AoS into a really tight and interesting game-experience, and I include all three ways to play in my assessment.

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear you'll be trying it out. Thanks for watching!

[@tcochu]

Kompendium Section is about the classic warhammer stuff that was "cut" from AoS. Those things have their rules in the PDFs GW put out after the change to AoS. They are still legal. They are for the people who want to play classic Warhammer timeline with AoS rules.

[@chrisjanquart7550]

Good to see actual point costs, but a bit miffed that my Skaven and Beastmen are relegated to "compendium " because they don't fit the AoS fluff. "Understrength units" don't make that much sense, other than ease of army set up and I really like the point costs that the guys from Miniwargaming used. Also nice to see actual rules, scenarios, deployment, etc and an uptick in sales.

[@tabletopminions]

Not all the Skaven are in there, from what I can tell. Just some certain named ones and stuff like that. Thanks for watching!

[@assembly_language3948]

The Compendium section is just that. Points for those remaining models and named characters that were not updated into Age of Sigmar proper. These are remnants from the Compendiums that were released when the game came out. Anything found in the Compendium sections no longer exist as they all died out in the End Times and the destruction of the Old World. YOu'll notice everything that got a new Warscroll from either the Grand Alliance or faction Battletomes are in their new Faction listings. Everything that wasnt updated is under their old WFB Army Book name.

[@Zargooran]

I believe that the points system when talking about the min/max units is more based on box sales. So say, a min unit of 10 and a max of 30 might be in reference to the unit being sold in a box of 10, so for a max unit you need three boxes. My guess is that it was set up more like this to make it easier for customers to create an army by looking at the points and working out what miniature box sets they need to purchase to get to that level. I agree that it is annoying if you just wanted to add a few extras to a unit and they possibly should have addressed that issue, but for those new to the game who start out with this book, they can plan out what they need to make that 1000pt list, which gets them into gaming more quickly and having fun.

[@zandosdwarf-king]

Duardin Warriors, Quarrellers and Thunderers says hi :( (16/box each, units are 10, buffed at 20, max at 40 (warriors)/30 (shooters)).

[@Zargooran]

To be fair, those box sets are still called 'Dwarf' at my local store, so they may be re-packaged at some point for their renaming. I was referring more to the AoS releases and how the points are more in line with box model numbers, though I admit I had forgotten about those old box sets and their model count.

[@zandosdwarf-king]

Well, they say DWARF at GW website image, but on warscroll they spell duardin. (And GW employer in Poland refers to them as dwarves (in Polish), not as duardin). Sure, dorfs wasn't repacked (and I don't think they will), but then, I think only Warriors and Quarrellers/Thunderers are only dorfs with non-AoS-men-in-an-unit model counts (and probably the only in GW, didn't looked at everything). But there's also something with hammerrers dudes- their warscroll says unit is 5, and in GHB it says min 10 dudes (at least it did on leak I saw few weeks ago).

[@tabletopminions]

Makes sense. Thanks for watching!

[@MKalavera111]

The Handbook is great. I bought it and the points help me for orientation. The paragraph in the side box, telling us to play only in full bunches of 5, 10 or whatever army sizes, will be generously ignored for fun reasons. Still the point system is very helpful for orientation. As me and my brother had no experience in AoS or any other table top game before, we were surprised how fairly our first 500 pt game ended. In addition, creating an army for a given point value is the most pleasuring part at all. Running over all your models in your head, constructing scenarios where more "ranged units" would be great in treat of line forces ... All this thinking and spending time with the game system and the army building is part of the AoS fun know. Its wonderful and I like the book for its point section. Still , the multiplayer rules are somehow not that impressive to me, as they are nearly the same as the two player matchup rules. What I like also beside the points is the amount of new ideas, scenarios and additional rules (like adding special abilities and artifacts for the General of your army). Still there could follow some rules for attacking from behind or flanking etc. May be some of these details will be added in the coming years. I am happy with AoS as it is. It is easy to learn, can be explained to friends and it can played in random skirmish up to scenario based campaigns. Its enough rules to play a game and at the same time leaves room for your creativity and house rules. I like AoS :-)

[@tabletopminions]

I'm really glad you're liking it. Thanks for watching!

[@RandomComicGuy]

I really like the matched play. While I liked Age of Sigmar before, I kept running into people who were running armies that were really no fun to play against. But now with the matched play limits, things have become fun. :D

[@tabletopminions]

A lot of people are enjoying the matched play. I'm glad you're liking it. Thanks for watching!

[@khadorstrong]

I returned because of this book.

[@xIrishSkillzx]

Me too. Its also become my casual game of choice.

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear it. Thanks for watching!

[@andyhart3837]

xIrishSkillzx agree with both of you guys, it's repeaked my interest in the game.

[@NeonRaveHuskey]

About the 8 points per model I do that with people at my local shop who are ok with it. its best used with newer players that don't have as many models and buy what they like (how it should be) so their army's don't come out very even.

[@tabletopminions]

Good idea. Thanks for watching!

[@ThePeacemaker848]

11:25 ....the points are just a guide. Like you said, its not hard to do math so if you add extra gore just add them as 8pts per model.

[@mandragoradravgis]

Well, I'm glad for the points being made. believe me, when you play 'wounds' as Vampire Counts and you're trying to compromise relative army sizes you live in fear of the three stages of escalation: 1) someone suggests skeletons and zombies should count as half a model for wounds. (you're still good) 2) someone suggests that's too low and starts creeping the ratio upwards (you're getting worried) 3) someone inevitably makes a 3/5 of a model 'jokingly' (you're either hiding from the venue's patron's eyes or running to your car)

[@tabletopminions]

I understand what you're getting at. Thanks for watching!

[@Knightfall8]

9:26 but the book still says it's a "guide" and "do what you want" so you and your opponent can agree to, like, pay per model if you dont have enough to meet the next increment up.

[@tabletopminions]

Very true, it's totally up to you. It's one of the things I love about tabletop wargaming. Thanks for watching!

[@CloakingDonkey]

I can appreciate that the AoS veterans probably don't need this book but this is what got me to the game at last. It just wasn't my thing with those silly 4 pages.

[@CloakingDonkey]

oh and btw fixed unit sizes are pretty standard in a lot of other game systems. It's just specifically GW that didn't use to do this. Usually the point of fixed unit sizes is to buy a box and play the box as is. No more buying 5 cavalry in a box and 2 blisters with 2 more grunts and 3 more blisters with the command section.. ;) That old GW packaging is really the only reason the single model values even existed.

[@mastercats]

i can dig and I understand why you don't dug the non granularity of them. its so making list is super quick. For the most part it's multiples of 20 so it's easy math. additionally, the game gives the lowest pointed list a small buff that is randomized, and can be used once per game. Even as all points player, we know that 1k of x army is always equal to 1k of y army. so being alittle off is fine. just dont go over ^.~

[@tabletopminions]

I get it. Thanks for watching!

[@ashheilborn]

In Warmachine mk1, they had units with minimums and maximums for units, and they had the costs at around 50 points, and each model was about 10 points after that. It wound up that no one took max size units. There was always a number that was the most efficient for the points, and you'd always take that. When mk2 hit, they stopped that, and switched to 6 model / 10 model delineations with set costs for both versions.

[@Direwoof]

Yo andrew I didn't know you watched these videos, this is Lucas lol!

[@ashheilborn]

I just discovered it. Cool! Yeah, I like the way he talks about stuff. Haven't seen too many of them yet. Mostly I watch Advanced Maneuvers. It's real hard to find good wargaming content.

[@Direwoof]

Andrew Heilborn yeye I enjoy frozenkommander as well he makes good batreps.

[@Rosstafa]

I thought the points thing was weird when I read through it too. It doesn't make sense at all why they would do it that way. To be honest, unless I do some proper tournament sort of gaming I'll likely just use the point values as an estimate of how much to bring to a fight. I think it is a bit better than eyeballing it and putting one unit down at a time.

[@tabletopminions]

Not a bad idea. Thanks for watching!

[@travelminipainter]

Thank you Uncle Atom for this review. I love fantasy, but never got the drive, nor the will, to collect hundreds of models of the same before I could even contemplate playing a game of Warhammer, besides I prefer skirmishing style games. Out of ignorance I did not even look at AoS when it came out, as at the time I was deeply entrenched in getting my two opposing BA armies ready for action.After watching your review I started investigating AoS for the first time and to my surprise it would look like everything I have ever wanted of a fantasy TT-game. It holds many similarities to Bolt Action and best of all, I get to pick and chose the units I (visually) like and mix them all up in an army of my choosing.... How cool is that?Without your review I would have never, ever even contemplated looking into it and right now I have a copy of the general's handbook and a "Start collecting! Slaves to Darkness" box inbound, and I can't wait to get my hands on it and work on those! You really should ask GW for commissions!

[@tabletopminions]

I'm really glad I was able to help. Thanks for watching!

[@convertediron]

I live in Roanoke Virginia. 40k is the dominant feature in our city and AoS was not doing well. nobody wanted to play at all. Our local gamestore stocked it but never sold anything. i think he had sold 2 of the starter boxes in 6 months. The moment points play got announced, it exploded. hes not selling anything but AoS now.

[@tabletopminions]

Huh, that's interesting. I wonder if it'll be like that all over. Thanks for watching!

[@Gregors85]

Can you do a video explaining the official summoning rules? There's still a lot of debating on my local Game store about how it works. Even after the General handbook came out.

[@tabletopminions]

I'll look into it. I'm no great rules tactician, though. Thanks for watching!

[@MiniModelog]

Great video. I am trying at the moment to make the decision to dip my toe back into fantasy and age of sigmar. I was however concerned I would need to buy lots of books again. Your vid has really helped me out! thanks

[@malekith13]

There is an interesting thing with this point system, since the cost of units are for groups they can make the point value of a unit mor precise. How many time did we get units that were too strong for 4 points but too weak for 5 points ? well now you can get 10 for 45 points to have models at 4,5 points each ( like the tomb king's chariots at 140 points for 3 chariots witch means they cost 46,66 points each ).

[@Pigumami]

If you look at the GW battle report in the matched play section the points lists are not perfectly balanced. I understand in an actual tourney that does not fly but for a "more balanced" game that is played for fun I think the book works great. Also I think you will see many tourneys that either give points ranges instead of a hard cap, or they price per model at least with battleline units or something so that it is easier to round out the points. The best thing about AoS is that it screams common sense. I don't think this book changes that.

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad to hear it. Thanks for watching!

[@justinatnos5160]

Hey Atom, I'm a bit on the fence about the points system myself... to me personally I'm happy that they added some semblance of "Balance" to the people who wanted points (Myself included) but I disagree with the way they went about it. 10 units - 80 points? It just seems utterly ridiculous to me that it's not, as you said, 8 points a unit In what possible way is it fair to add 80 points for 1 model that should cost 8 Maybe they have a bigger reason for it in mind, however it just seems counter productive None the less, I'm sure all the games I play with friends we will make house rules for per-model points

[@tabletopminions]

Well, as several other people here in the comments have said, you can certainly make a house rule. Thanks for watching!

[@JavlinVII]

Have you considered doing a video for the 2017 Generals Handbook? I recently got into AOS and I'm still trying to unlearn Fantasy/Decide what books I need for AOS.

[@coreymic]

The compendium section are all of the models they aren't going to be supporting anymore. All of the Brets and Tomb Kings are in there, you can't buy them anymore, but you still can play with them. So you can ABSOLUTELY still play with them! Perfectly legal. I've had absolutely no issue with coming up with army lists that hit the point level I'm aiming for on the head at 2000pts or greater. For the minimum size per unit is based on how much you get when buy a box of figures. I imagone GW was trying to make army lists even simplier. If you bought 2 boxes of Gor ypubdont have 12 of them, you have 20. So why not use all of them? It's actually less math if you don't have to calculate per model. I can practically create entire lists in my head now rather than having to bust out a calculator. You have to do that when everything is broken down per model.

[@tabletopminions]

You're probably better at math than me. Thanks for watching!

[@BennyKeat]

Hi Atom, just a quick comment on your observation of how there is very little artwork in the GH but a lot of pictures of mini's. I think your reasoning (that it is a bit cheaper and easier to take photos of models than to commission artists) is probably a part of it, but I also think that GW introduced a strategy a couple of years back that is basically thus - rather than show off art of what the models represent, why not just show the models? I remember several years ago that many boxed sets produced by GW also had a piece of cover art on the front instead of a picture of the actual miniature. Look at anything produced since about 2006 though and it is almost exclusively photography of the miniatures inside. Just a little observation of my own :) Keep up the great work!

[@tabletopminions]

+Benny We may be on to something. Thanks for watching!

[@larabic]

Curious what your last opponents list pointed out at. And how balanced the game seems / seemed.

[@tabletopminions]

I can't remember a game where I thought, "well, this is a foregone conclusion." They've all been sorta close. But I agree, we should try the points things with his trolls and see what that looks like. Thanks for watching!

[@jaimezamora7532]

Hi! Suggestion: Can you make a video where age of sigmar is trying to achieve? or where is it moving to? why did they eliminate the bretonnians and the tomb kings? I came to the US excited to buff my army size with some knights of the realm but I looked into the site and I couldn't find anything, and bretonnian prices in ebay are going through the roof. Thanks and Love the work, keep going!

[@tabletopminions]

Well, I could make some guesses, I guess, but only GW would really know the answers to those questions. Thanks for watching!

[@LandoFabrizian]

NEW VIDEO WOOHOO:) Friday's are the best ;)

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad to help. Thanks for watching!

[@assembly_language3948]

As to "points per grouping of" If it was a per model point value, you would have people taking the bare minimums until of units until they had everything they wanted and then could just fill out other units with remaining points. This way, it forces you to think in what to take and how. Plus I think it was a time saving issue. Adding up 8 points a model times 14 models is more math than I frankly want to deal with as I've gotten older... Set Value per Set Value doubled again for another Set Value is much easier to me.

[@tabletopminions]

Some days, I'm not sure I should be forced to think. Thanks for watching!

[@assembly_language3948]

As I've gotten older (soon 45), thinking seems to come with great difficulty and effort... I try not to do a lot of it myself

[@ORCA4312]

I am an old war gamer from the days of hex maps and cardboard counters. I always prefer to play the campaign rules where each game has an impact on the next. There is a serious down side to playing this way, though. The runaway snowball effect or 'the rich get richer'. After a couple of wins by one side, the advantage built up may be insurmountable.

[@SAINT200690]

AOS is meant to have been the New "Apocalypse" Size Battles. So they want you to buy alot more models, which is 1 reason why the rules are easier so the Large battles are Faster

[@rickisi]

Whatever the GW reason, I enjoy the points system with its clunky all or nothing unit costs becasue i feel it really adds something to army crafting. It's an extra challenge the lets me ruminate on the army for hours before i even get to my store :D

[@tabletopminions]

Many people do seem to enjoy that aspect of it. Thanks for watching!

[@benclark6841]

As an addendum to what others have said in regards to the unit sizes below too you'll also notice that Games Workshop conveniently often doesn't package their models in the correct unit sizes. Take Saurus Guard for example, minimum unit size is 5 and goes up to 20, but the box they sell has 15. You might only want to field one unit of 20 but you'll have to buy 30 models or you might only want a unit of 10 but you'll have to buy 15. Saurus Knights, unit size is 5 up to 20 too but the box they sell has 8? So now if I want to field a full strength unit I need to buy 3 boxes and have four left overs? I'd need to buy another 2 boxes to field full units without ever wasting models. Skinks is another funny one, box of 24 but unit size of 10-40. Other races are the same, it's the classic case of Hot Dogs vs Buns and makes for very very clever marketing by Games Workshop making you either waste models by not fielding them and overpaying for the unit or more likely by buying even more models.

[@Zack_Ev]

From raising that same question about the points with my local GW store there said that they are slowly making all there boxes only have 10 models in or the amount that you pay for in the points system in the unit box. If you have herd anything else please let me know.

[@michaelo1614]

Thanks for the review

[@tabletopminions]

Not so much a 'review' as an 'overview' and my thoughts, but thanks. Thanks for watching!

[@3dprintedgamer684]

the odd points thing bugs me as well, but it's the same in warmachine and hordes, and also the same in Kings of war. for example in warmahordes, I mostly play searforge. well I dont have any 1 point models in the army. which means I have to really play with the numbers to get my 15 point, 25 pount, or 35 or 50 or I go get up to 75. it sounds dumb but not having that 1 point sear forge model makes it difficult, and I want to keep them all dwarves cause narrative. in Kings of war, because you buy full units, it sometimes makes it a bit difficult to make armies especially when you get to the point where you have 15 points left and you don't want to just use it on random magic items. or the worst is when you are trying to make a 2000 point army and you end up having a 1915 points left in your all cav army for elves... so you rearrange the army plan then you have 1965 points.... so you think hmmmm what to put in... ok more magic items. it's a bit of a frustration dealing with points and why I like things like old 6th and 7th edition path to glory. I am not complaining about those other games I just mentioned, but it's the compromise you have to make when playing with points. great video like always, keep them up.

[@tabletopminions]

+Skolbro's Tabletop Some people love the list building process for that very reason. Thanks for watching!

[@cachofriki]

Love your videos!!! I thing the points cost is for a box of miniatures. You don't buy single miniatures of a unit. Not working for every box but you know the idea.

[@tabletopminions]

Thanks for watching!

[@armorphreak]

They did the points the way they did to make the math simple. Also you could play a 1300 or grab another unit and play 1500pt games. Also you are no longer hard capped, if you are shooting for a 1000pt game and end up 100 over. Your Opponent just gets a bonus for having fewer points than you is all. Keep in mind at a serious tournament you will likely be hard capped. But for friendly matched play it shouldn't be an issue, the points are really there to play more balanced style of games.

[@tabletopminions]

True, friendly games should be easier. Thanks for watching!

[@televided]

I also found the under strength rules annoying, but mostly for my older armies that I bought second hand. My wood elf army has nothing but odd numbered units. I am going to use the spares for frostgrave :3 That said, GW is releasing kits that bring the Stormcast starter set army up to scratch, the latest box has 2 generic retributors in it. (making the starter force 5) so it seems like they are aware of it. It kinda feels like hot dog bun marketing doesn't it? :P

[@tabletopminions]

Your Frostgrave idea is a good one. Thanks for watching!

[@jazeroth322]

I've started a Skelton death army with the £50 starter set to play test the game. if I enjoy it I'll go big. until then I think £50 plus the books is ok

[@tabletopminions]

I agree. Thanks for watching!

[@videoGunZ]

Are the basic rules (the 4-paged pdf) in there too?

[@tabletopminions]

+Levin Street LP Yes, they’re in there. Thanks for watching!

[@TheTazman49684]

Thanks for another great video! I have been pulled into this screaming and kicking, being a feisty ol' historical gamer. Our FLGS is doing the AOS Global Campaign (T.C. Paintball, yeah!) This is a completely different way of gaming but it is growing on me. (I guess, like barnacles on a old warship :)) The compendium is a good way of getting me up to speed. Again, Great video Atom! Respectfully, Gunny

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear you're enjoying it, Gunny. Thanks for watching!

[@Judge_Jej]

Rumor from Adepticon saying that 40k 8th edition is going to get the general's handbook treatment so I came here to figure out what that meant.

[@tabletopminions]

They talked about *some* of the changes they're planning, but they've been quiet about how the new books are going to work out. I hope we'll hear more soon. Thanks for watching!

[@Pteppic]

I have been looking at the "Understrength"-Rule and in my bokk at least (german edition the rule is listed under "Open Battle" aka tournament, not under ranked game. The rule does not appear in the normal matched-play section (which comes later)

[@tabletopminions]

Hmm. That's odd. Thanks for watching!

[@umbrum2]

Because if the goal is to keep it as simple as possible that's how you do it. after all you by gors in box of ten. so is you need 240 points to fill your army you know that's 3 boxes of gors.

[@JamieKaos]

They are trying to get rid of min maxing so that people aren't trying to break the game, that's why you can't buy per model. Something that we do is for games that are 1000-1500 we use the 1000 point rules. Makes it more flexible.

[@tabletopminions]

Makes sense. Thanks for watching!

[@patinho5589]

20 points over could be allowed? In the example match the armies are slightly over or under the game points value I like the simple blocks of troops and we get less fixated on 'min-maxing'

[@YenzQu]

Patinho But that would be the same as just making the points limit 20 points higher.

[@patinho5589]

YenzQu yes it would!

[@patinho5589]

YenzQu actually no it wouldn't, cause you'd keep the unit choice mins and maximums for the 'nominal' points value chosen e.g. 2+ battleline

[@LesterRamos]

Well, if your opponent is lenient towards the point values, I don't see why not.

[@Matti_Mattsen]

I don't really like the "minimum unit size" and the tax on bringing uneven amounts of units (like you said with your 12 goatman) and since i only play with friends and pretty much anything is optional anyways, i don't do it. Just calculate the price of one full unit divided by number of models, there, points value of one model. As long as i have a way to balance out armies, i'm fine. I don't really get why anyone would not like to play with points. I mean, you can still bring the models you like, which is the main point of open play, isn't it?

[@tabletopminions]

Totally. House rules are always okay in my book. Thanks for watching!

[@pikerize]

Hello Uncle Atom, I have been watching off and on now for a few months and was curious what you thoughts are on the Collectible Minis games like D&D minis a few years back? Also do you ever play any tabletop RPGs, or are you strictly a minis kind of guy?

[@tabletopminions]

My first steps into tabletop gaming (other than family games like Monoploy and such) was Dungeons & Dragons in the 5th grade. I played RPGs for quite awhile, but then I got much more interested in tabletop wargaming in my mid-20s. Today, I pretty much only play minis. Thanks for watching!

[@richmcgee434]

So, it's 2018 now. Years down the road and with the 2017 GH out for a while now, what's your opinion on the 2016 GH? Is it still worth picking up for content, or is it wholly outdated material now?

[@JamieKaos]

The compendium are the scrolls from the first PDF releases and are the models that are now OOP.

[@mitchcowan1446]

The vast majority of those are not oop, they are just older versions or named characters of the current warscrolls in the fluff. ALL are still playable and most have great synergy. Alot are still being sold, though specifically the metal and finefast kits are going away.

[@JamieKaos]

+Mitch Cowan how was your take away from my comment that they aren't playable? If it has a scroll it can be used. Also a good chuck of those models are fine cast and got cut when they sorted all the Grand Alliances. Not sure how you got to your conclusion.

[@mitchcowan1446]

+James Moulton You said the compendium is oop, and thats not true. Tons of compendium models and units are in print from the pdf that are relegated to the compendium section of the GH. The GH section isnt about oop, its about timeline in the fluff, but all are still playable Pretty clear conclusion all around :)

[@JamieKaos]

+Mitch Cowan I said the models were oop....

[@mitchcowan1446]

James Moulton Right, and they aren't all oop lol. I don't see the issue.

[@RageAgainstTheDice]

Loved old Fantasy, love new Age of Sigmar but that book is a god send, I too didn't like the points pools system but the rest of the book is brilliant...