Why Warhammer: Age of Sigmar Is a Good Thing

[@Miniac]

"Now they're gonna go spend their money on crack" - LOLLLLLL

[@Xile611]

I'm dead lmao

[@SJGamingStudios]

😂😂😂😂

[@kingsnogaryen6292]

I died.

[@KeloseDEC]

I remember when I first tried to get into war gaming. Good thing that the store owner also sold crack, that was a wild Tuesday afternoon.

[@tabletopminions]

+KeloseDEC I've never gotten the hang of Tuesdays. Thanks for watching!

[@Hsutherland123]

thats what happened to me with the old warhammer, i couldnt fit the rule book in my backpack so me and my friend bought crack instead

[@tabletopminions]

It's a sad tale that we hear every day. Sad. Thanks for watching!

[@OST1350]

Junkies are the lowest cast in our human race. I shame on you.

[@Rookblunder]

@@OST1350 Junkies ? nah...Chaos space marine are the lowest.

[@pepebabushki9376]

@@OST1350 dude, have some empathy. Everyone is young at some point.

[@danielbeam3113]

Age of Sigmar: lowering crack use in 10 year olds since 2015.

[@parlindstrom6011]

I agree with what you're saying. I used to play a lot of warhammer fantasy while growing up and I have a large chaos army in a box in the basement. When my children got older I wanted to introduce them to miniature gaming and for a long time I tried to find a game that was simple enough for an eight year old to learn. When AOS was released last summer I quickly realised it was the perfect introduction game for them. Now six months later we are building terrain together and painting miniatures and are having a great time playing the game. So yes I think this was the right move for games workshop.

[@308473mb]

+Pär Lindström I do not like AoS at all, but I love hearing that you got your children super passionate about miniature wargaming. I guess that I, as a 30 year old, fall outside of GW's target demographic.

[@parlindstrom6011]

+Reb Brown i can understand that AOS doesn't fit everyone. but as a 40+ parent that don't have too much time to spend on this it works really great. also you can play a battle in an hour or two which is about as much time as you can get your children to focus. but I'd love to see that GW maybe released som advanced rules for AOS as well, so it could appeal to more.

[@tabletopminions]

+Pär Lindström This story is spectacular, and exactly what I was talking about! I'm so glad that you've been able to get your kids into wargaming with something like this. Good on you, and thanks for watching!

[@parlindstrom6011]

Tabletop Minions​ well I'm glad too cause now I have a very good excuse to play cause it counts as quality time with my children. The only thing I really think GW does wrong is the lack of female miniatures. This actually nearly put my daughter off the whole thing. Luckily I could buy some female characters that I found on the net. Not from GW though.

[@cristhianmlr]

+Pär Lindström Too bad that Battle Sisters haven't got a real treat since a long while, and that 40K its far more complex. However, remember that Elvin armies have a good selection of female miniatures. Some of my favourite ones among the whole Fantays range are the Sisters of the Thorn and the Sisters of Avelorn, meanwhile both lines have really detailed eagles and horses; HE have a lion chariot and WE have Glade Riders, which have riders of both genders, and as a whole army have way more female models. It's not uncommon to see that the few female players often tend to be attracted towards Elvin armies, which have some of the more aesthetic miniatures in the whole GW selection.

[@ballerlarva4214]

The problem lots of people, including myself have, is that AoS is not really a reboot or a change of warhammer fantasy, it is it's destruction and replacement. It just is not the same game, they just turned it into 40k, right down to including space marines. It's just that simple, GW no longer makes Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k, its 40k and the other 40k. I can see you'd be interested if you were a 40k player, if you preferred 40k already then obviously AoS is more up your street.The people who played fantasy over 40k did so because fantasy was a wargame, not a skirmish game, you were actually fielding an army worth the name, and you felt like a general when you played. AoS does not, and never will, scratch that itch. Imagine if your favourite car manufacturer just said ''yeah, the whole car thing, that's done, we're only making monster trucks now. But hey, give our monster trucks a chance, they're really good''. A monster truck cannot satisfy my need for a car, no matter it's merits.

[@Jackthecritic]

while age of sigma has worse lore than Warhammer fantasy, game wise it's a lot better. it's far easier for new players to learn the rules and jump in than Warhammer fantasy

[@ianthrockmorton9167]

Luckily you can still play 8th edition all you want my friend! can't buy new models and rules, no, but if you were a player, and needed to scratch a little itch, it's still there ; )

[@CommanderCool101]

I'm sure there's scope for getting new models, Ian; sure, it's difficult if you're playing Bretonnia or Tomb Kings and want to expand, but you could always invest in Fireforge Games' models for Bretonnians or spruce up/proxy some Vampire Counts units for Tomb Kings, I suppose. As for surviving armies you could put them on third-party square bases or even just rank them up on the round bases as best you can. Not the best solution, I know, but I'd hardly say that WHFB players have been robbed of expansion opportunities.

[@Spongemonkeybobo]

As a bret player it is a pain in the ass, fortunately I can thank fireforge games, darkzone miniatures and Perry miniatures for their awesome models. There are people out there that have made the 9th age aswell which raises my spirit and hope that humanity isn't completely lost.

[@LordVader1094]

+Jack the critic Easier =/= better. Why not have AoS alongside Fantasy so that those who enjoy a complex wargame can play Fantasy, while more casual relaxed people can play AoS.

[@LazyVideosGAME]

I know that as well. Couldn't afford that new Bloodthirster. Used the Money for crack and cocaine instead. At least that's affordable.

[@AxeloNz3]

"Spend their money on crack... or whatever kids spend their money on these days" LOL

[@tabletopminions]

+Koreldy Or maybe they spend their money on records, or the Pokemons. I don't have any kids. Thanks for watching!

[@StefanTrifunovic]

+Tabletop Minions You would've been a good father...

[@d34285]

Koreldy this was by far the best part of the video. Perhaps this statement will make it on a shirt one day.

[@downsjmmyjones101]

Magic the Gathering?

[@fernando3061]

The fact that he said that with a straight face cracks me up so much.

[@LordVader1094]

What I hate most about AoS was that it REPLACED Warhammer Fantasy. Why not have it alongside WF as a way of getting people into the hobby, while leaving regular Warhammer alone for all the fans that were already here?

[@tabletopminions]

They very likely just didn't have the resources (since sales were flagging) to start *another* miniature line, so then needed to rip off the band-aid and make the change. When I line is selling poorly, you don't keep it and add another line. Thanks for watching!

[@LordVader1094]

Tabletop Minions They still are reselling the old models, so why not just keep the fluff since they're still selling the models under a different name?

[@mikelatter9484]

I completely agree with everything you said. I was that 12 year old kid, the one with the screw loose that even when they said "yeah this is going to cost you x and you need l,m,n,o,p first" wasn't turned off. But I was always a hobbyist first because everything was so cool I never managed to buy enough stuff to play a game. As an adult I turned to 40k, but to be honest the competitive scene (and complicated rules) meant that I never had fun playing, so back I was to just painting. AoS has brought new life back to miniatures for me, I can buy whatever i like because it's cool, I don't need to have X% troops and whatever, I can then roll some dice and have some fun with other like minded people who don't take it too seriously. IMO 40k is the GW's option for the miniature 'power gamer', AOS is the hobbyist's game for painters and collectors who also want to play a game.

[@tabletopminions]

+Mike Latter "40k is the GW's option for the miniature 'power gamer', AOS is the hobbyist's game for painters and collectors who also want to play a game" I think you hit it right on the head, and I'm glad you're getting back into playing with Age of Sigmar. Thanks for watching!

[@TheClassicWorld]

That is unjust and forgetting history, however. In essence, you are saying that it's good that it's easy and silly now because you don't take it too seriously. But, it's a tabletop wargame, it's meant to be quite serious and complicated. Warfare is, and the creator of wargaming (H. G. Wells) made it quite serious and complicated. Fantasy is meant to be Fantasy, not AoS. He would be ashamed to see kids in the 21st-century grumbling about the enterprise we have built, wanting it to be easy and frivolous. I agree, that option should be there for you, of course, it should, but, that shouldn't be the thing itself, thus forcing all of us to play the way you want to play and view it the way you view it. This is one of the biggest problems people have with AoS. It's not as much a tabletop war game now and it has lost some of its strategy.

[@TheClassicWorld]

I don't see how your opinion of it makes it so or can be true. Both Fantasy and 40k are, or were, for the miniature 'power gamer', and painter and collector. They should be on equal footing, more or less, and yet have the flexibility to mould to both player types without casting one aside, they should both be serious whilst remaining a fun game. It is about balance, and it's not rocket science. Well, clearly the players thought so (and GW, or the players and in turn GW). I wonder if the players (some of the players) are to blame for all the changes and not GW itself.

[@MatthewBester]

"Do you have $700?" 😂 My favourite line.

[@IForgotMyUsername5000]

Matthew Bester first comment I found that isn’t related to crack

[@theminakins815]

@@IForgotMyUsername5000 are you sure? crack is expensive too.

[@chr.v.rasmussen3478]

This video aged well. Watching in 2022 :)

[@TatumVayavananda]

I definitely appreciate your explanation and clarity! I was the little child you described about 25 years ago- never had the money to get into the hobby. Now, with these sets and having had converted my wife into a RPG player, I feel like I can fulfill a childhood dream! Than you so much for the videos!

[@MrMortull]

Forever angry. I don't mind the rules changes or the marketing shift, that's all smart and good and I applaud the business move, but did they *have* to murder the entire goddamn world and invalidate thirty-some years of fluff in one go? It doesn't help that The End Times was a very unsatisfying scenario from a fan's perspective, but the bottom line is they burned away the entire setting and started fresh with something that at its core, isn't Warhammer any more.

[@cinderknight7297]

Because it was needed to to introduce such a huge change! And DUH, of course this isn't warhammer anymore, to begin with it doesn't even figure in the title, go figure.

[@MrMortull]

Really? Those rules wouldn't have worked for the troop choices and existing factions? Oh, and it's called "Warhammer: Age of Sigmar" Soooooooo...

[@cinderknight7297]

Gotchaed on that one, considering our meta unanimously says AoS (unlike the odd case of W40k being mentioned from time to time rather than just 40k.). Still it's not warhammer anymore. That place blew to kingdom come and civilization has bloomed. No it would have not worked in the old setting.. It's not something just about the rules: the setting, the approach, and structure of the new miniatures. But let's go for the rules: do you think that they'd have tolerated those rules with such a strong connection still remaining to the old method? It's called burning the ships or sunken costs: they destroyed the Old World because they wanted to make the change permanent and after this there's no way back (which, make no mistakes, would have happened with the setting still intact).

[@MrMortull]

Not sure we'll ever agree about that, since one of my local GW blokes recommended I should just use the rules to continue playing with what I already had to bulk up my forces before 'properly transitioning', and also apparently bits and pieces of the Old World still exist intact within Sigmar's new nightmare realm of nonsense (who knew the Big Sig was a chaos god?). That sounds awfully like not burning *all* the ships just in case to me, which is even more deplorable. I guess my response here to GW's contempt for their existing Fantasy players is a polite "Well fuck you very nice, I'm taking my money elsewhere" I still have a copy of the old (real) Warhammer and cheap third-party minis/paint aren't hard to come by...

[@cinderknight7297]

The only piece "intact" is mallus which is a huge ass asteroid made of remnants of the explosion resulting from the old world's death. Sigmar isn't a chaos god, he's the avatar of Azyr and thus he's a god in that "realm" as everything can be shaped to his will there. There's, truth be told, people who have inherited cultures of the Old World but this could be more seen as Sigmar being nostalgic and trying to recreate what was lost. Right now the setting is gone, almost everyone from there is gone, with only a few people and "remnants" (generally souls, 99.9999% of the time) having drifted around. Well, good for you to have real Warhammer... Fantasy Battles. I won't force you to play the real Warhammer Age of Sigmar. Still think it was for the best.

[@NoPreyRemains]

So here's the thing, I'm a Warhammer player for the last four editions and I would have jumped on the AoS band wagon without a second thought if it had been the following: a) A Historical Setting (play during the ACTUAL Age of Sigmar - you know before the Empire was formed) b) A full blown skirmish game in the Warhammer World - Mordheim Warbands all grown up c) Still allowed you to rank up those skirmishers into ranks using an alternative system (i.e. modified version of the current rules) But no, the world got blown up and they flipped me the bird and said "we're done with world you've loved for the past 15+ years, accept the new or GTFO."

[@tabletopminions]

It's true: they didn't seem to think much about the PR of the change and how it would effect the current player base. Thanks for watching!

[@rickglaze4022]

+Tabletop Minions I feel like this should not be a surprise to anyone. GW has built a business on screwing their customers over. Hey....were going to release an "expansion" to the rules. Please buy everything you will need for this new ruleset....because we are going to cancel the entire game in a few months...

[@joshhales4718]

The type of person that seems to get left out of these discussions is me - I was a Fantasy player years ago (as a kid) and recently thought I’d get back into it. I thought I’d walked into the wrong shop when I went to have a look! I was quite excited to see how the world and my faction had been updated in the intervening 15 years+, and when I asked the shop assistant he just said oh it doesn’t exist anymore, have a look at these AoS guys. I couldn’t believe it. My faction had disappeared as had the square bases and blocks of troops which was what had attracted me in the first place! Now it’s just skirmish/40k style stuff. Really disappointing not to be able to go back to something I loved.

[@tabletopminions]

If you still love square bases and blocks of troops, take a look at Kings if War from Mantic Games. A lot of folks who still loved the play style of WHFB moved to that game. Thanks for watching!

[@joshhales4718]

Tabletop Minions Thanks! I’ve been enjoying watching your videos whilst I’m considering whether to take up to hobby again, and which game. I do like 40k by the way, and used to play that too - I just enjoyed the differences between the games. I’ll have a look at Kings of War and see what’s going on! Cheers.

[@leakycheese]

I think there is an ever stronger recent theme of GW introducing new entry products to make their games more accessible from a cost perspective. As well as the re-tooling of WFB as AoS there are the "start collecting" boxed sets for WH40K and AoS, Betrayal at Calth (contains a decent sized Marine army for 30K or 40K for £95 or insert preferred local currency here) and now the new Deathwatch game (more specialised but still a good number of miniatures for the cost). Economics suggest this should work as they are trying to build market share, particularly given they seem to have have been more focused on upping the average cost per sale recently (look at all those big plastic superheavies of recent vintage......). Will it work is the next question? Perhaps, they are also investing heavily in free to play mobile gaming to broaden the brand appeal, I'll be reading this year's annual report with interest.

[@declanjones8986]

leakycheese .

[@tojorozombie]

I’m 51. I’ve never gamed. About two weeks ago, I saw your video on painting the Gutrot Spume, and had to find out what it was...when I saw all the Maggotkin of Nurgle, I was astonished! From there, I discovered Nighthaunts...oh, man... So, thanks for passing that bug on to me! Picked up Liekoron The Executioner to mess with, with the group of Blightkings inbound.

[@deepfriedjonny90]

This is what put me off warhammer as a kid because it was too expensive and always sounded too complicated for me. But with AoS I've been able just to jump straight into it (also helps I'm a grown ass man with my own money now)

[@iantolbert9254]

this honestly just sold me on Age of Sigmar

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad to help. I hope you have fun. Thanks for watching!

[@antilogic01]

I think the bluster has only died down because those who were upset aren't talking about it anymore. (myself included) I've played a good amount of 8th since, but I'm just tired of fighting about it. I understand a lot of the reasons to like AoS, but none of those are valuable for me. I'm just playing other games more often now.

[@taithays]

+Shao Kahn Can you explain why you don't keep on playing WFB ? I genuinely don't understand.... And what are you fighting exactly ?

[@antilogic01]

I do play wfb, I said that in my comment.

[@antilogic01]

And perhaps fighting is the wrong word. My friends who enjoy AoS have been trying to "convert me", talking to me about the games merits ad nauseum. I am just not interested. I've given it a try on multiple occasions, and I'd rather keep on playing 8th. AoS is not the game for me, and it's replaced my game at all my local gaming spots.

[@bigmageusa]

+Shao Kahn Is it the difference between a Skirmish game and a Rank-and-File war game that decreases your enjoyment of it? Is AoS thriving at your LGS's?

[@antilogic01]

Paul Kelly It's a contributing factor. I have a wide variety of skirmish games I'd rather play. AoS is still popular at my local GW, but not at the other game stores.

[@Basil_Ghothickovitch]

My Stages of Immersion into Warhammer Age of Sigmar: 1) I decided to try it because I had a lot of old fantasy sets that I bought for 40k conversions 2) On round bases, this did not contradict my 40k collection. 3) at first I made models that could also be in 40k, but then I realized that there is more freedom in Mortal Realms than 40k - after all, each model can be given a taste of its own Realm. 4) Now I am specifically looking for more old fantasy miniatures to convert them to Age of Sigmar. Think about it: millions of people have old Bretonnia, the same rows of the same model. And very few have Bretonnia on oval/round bases in a new fantastic setting. It's unique - it's better!!!

[@ckangaroo15k]

If you think the simpler game style of age of sigmar is the correct step for GW you'd only be half right. The real smart move for them would be to simplify the rules into a booklet about the size of a codex (which is totally possible), and take steps to reduce the cost of an army to start. The reason why GW has seen a loss in people joining the game is because the cost to start an army is roughly 300$ including the rules and army books, and they're targeting 12-17 years olds. GW see themselves as the rolex of plastic, and don't understand why customers aren't buying en masse.

[@subaveragejoe2]

I'm assuming you mean 40k because sigmar did all that...

[@Redfield517]

I remember being that 11 year old looking a wall of miniatures and buying a $12 box of Orcs (the small green one with the Arrer Boyz and the others with swords and shields) and a $4 White Dwarf. That magazine had a massive battle between the greenskins and the Empire. There was a lot to read and the narrative of the battle was awesome. My young mind really engaged in the fantasy and my miniatures came to life. Fortunately, there were stats on the back of boxes at the time. So at my local game store there were a couple kids a few years older than me and they were willing to show me how to play. That's right. I played with 10 unprimed and poorly painted Orcs split into two units versus a small unit of High Elf Spearmen from the 4th Edition box set. It was a blast. I didn't need a rulebook, or a $60 box. I borrowed some dice from the store, which had a great community, and engaged in a hobby that grew in complexity and depth as I matured.

[@tabletopminions]

+Redfield517 That's great! And now, newer players can do that again with Age of Sigmar. Thanks for watching!

[@Menselot]

Age of Sigmar positives: - Great models - Nice prices - Good for tabletop and the game Age of Sigmar Negatives: - It killed Fantasy - Mediocre to bad lore? (Is improving)

[@andreap8343]

I'm writing from Italy. I could be wrong, but I think that Whfb was always more popular in Europe than it was in the US. Back in the days, in your average miniature store, Fantasy and 40k were maybe 50/50, and most of the times Fantasy was the bigger one, with 40K being the niche game. I remember I was very surprised when, on online forums, I discovered that on the other side of the ocean the situation was waay different, and that actually WHFB was a minor percentage of GW sales. We had a urban legend in the community (don't know if it's true) that if you put together all the money GW earned from Fantasy, it would still be lower than what GW earned from Space Marines alone! Anyway, back to my point, what I wanted to say is that the death of WHFB was a HUGE blow for the boardgaming community here. GW handled it extremely poorly, both economically (ah, all those people who spent hundreds of € buying End Times books..) and in a PR way. People were so fed up and angry that many simply abandoned the hobby, or started new games, like X Wings or Kings of War. Ten years ago, if you entered in a (non GW) miniature shop, 99% of the minis were Citadel miniatures, and you could see people playing GW games in every table around you, now GW games have disappeared, or if they still resists, they're the minority. It's either X wing, flames of war, kings of war, there's so much more diversity and that's a good thing for sure (I mean, before it was either Fantasy or 40k,nothing else) but GW totally lost the leadership position they used to have. I hope the Aos strategy is paying in the US, because here, in the Old World, afaik it was a huge "hole in the water" as we say here.

[@drappke]

I wanted to get into the hobby for years but the cost and rulebook scared me... The AoS starter set came out and I figured: why not? So the last few months I have been painting a lot (the main reason I wanted to get into it really) and having a lot of fun doing that. I have very few friends who play miniature games but a lot who really are into board games. AoS is the perfect way for me to bring a bunch of models (2 reasonably balanced armies) and let my opponent choose his and have a fantastic afternoon of gaming. Same thing with the Betrayal at Calth box, finished painting that, haven't got around to playing it yet but it's a game that is easy enough to explain to a new player and have a blast.

[@tabletopminions]

+drappke Getting new players into wargames is great when you can bring models for both sides, which is why smaller skirmish games are so great. Thanks for watching!

[@XanthIllion]

My main issues with AoS were the total lack of point balancing. I found the Sudden Death Objectives to be rather broken, if you have the ability to summon stuff. And the loss of Strength vs Toughness for determining wounds. I liked all the things you mentioned in this video. Those were much needed. But they could have done so while keeping the good stuff. They've thrown the Baby out with the Bathwater. The General's Handbook did fix a lot of those issues though. They would have gotten so much less hate from their loyal fans if they started with that.

[@1971mav]

In my area some people didn't like 8th edition , but it seems much more people don't like AOS.

[@nonamebrandorangejuice]

Ture that, the local game store stopped stocking AOS because no wanted to buy it, now it's only 40k

[@kedbreak136]

This is exactly the reason I have liked blood bowl so much - you did need the box but after that, you could get a team by buying a single box and pretty straightforward to play.

[@danvanduyn7982]

I have played WFB for about 25 years (since 3rd ed.) and honestly although I miss GW's support of the old world I still play it with friends. No one told me I can't still play WFB. I also play AoS with some young relatives of mine who were scared away of WFB's model counts and costs, so to make a short story long you hit the nail on the head! Great video!

[@tabletopminions]

+Dan Van Duyn Thanks, I'm glad to hear you're fighting the good fight and getting the younger generation involved. Thanks for watching!

[@fransgaard]

This was a great video. I played GW games since the Rogue Trader days, but stopped a long time ago due to the amount of time needed to paint armies. I haven't played for years (other than a few campaigns using Realm of Chaos Warbands rules from the very first ROC books) - Age of Sigmar has really sparked my interest, not only because of the new minis, but also because it gives me an easy way in to re-paint just a few of my miniatures

[@tabletopminions]

+Robert Fransgaard Absolutely. I really feel that's what GW was hoping for. Plus, maybe you'll buy some new models because they're cool. And then maybe, eventually you'll start buying 40k models and build an army. But it's totally up to you. Thanks for watching!

[@Combat20110]

Just want to say I love your videos! I just started into the miniatures hobby (backing Kingdom Death: Monster started this obsession) and videos like the "wet palette" have been a huge help. Also picked up Age of Sigmar starter set thanks to you. Keep up the awesome work!

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear you're getting into the hobby, and glad to hear the videos are helping. Thanks for watching!

[@mcyolicjones9081]

An updated "Battlemasters" is the answer. At 10 or 11 that was my unwitting intro into Warhammer Fantasy. You got ~100 GW plastic fantasy dudes on sale for like $20 at ToysR Us (including a bunch of Goat Men) For a while those were the coolest things in my little universe. I was mind blown to discover the same universe on a much grander scale existed in hobby shops, or if you were really lucky, GW stores that dotted the landscape like 7/11's in more refined countries.

[@dragonicstar2248]

my problem is mainly with the destruction of the old world and the new lore...... which are complete shit

[@subaveragejoe2]

Destruction of the old world? Agreed, that was a shitty thing to do. New lore? Subjective, some people like low fantasy some people like off-the-wall fantasy.

[@dragonicstar2248]

What made Warhammer Fantasy (and still makes 40k great) is the gritty realism of it within the fantasy setting

[@LordVader1094]

+Nick Spears Exactly. Replacing Warhammer Fantasy, 30+ years of awesome lore, and replacing it with Asgardian hokeyness just sickens me. Lol

[@subaveragejoe2]

None of the fluff got replaced and 40k is in no way realistic. It's much closer to AoS than fantasy lore wise.

[@LordVader1094]

subaveragejoe2 It did, dude. Fantasy got wiped, AoS replaced it. You can't buy or play Warhammer Fantasy from GW anymore.

[@malcolmwright5793]

Making the game more accessible? Great. But despite their simplicity some of the rules are bad and they destroyed the fluff for no good reason. That's why the fans are angry.

[@willjohnstone9255]

For a long time a young would be player it was so difficult to continue playing 40k with a limited budget. I think Sigmar makes our wonderful world so much more accessible! Definitely a step in the right direction.

[@tabletopminions]

I totally agree, and hear from many new players who are getting into the hobby because of Age of Sigmar. Thanks for watching!

[@sjhhej]

I started playing GW core games in 1983 with WFB 1e. Checked out of the core stabled in 1998. AoS has brought me back in. Its a huge step in the right direction for their games.

[@alltaken21]

There is one important part that is generally overlooked. New prices, a decent AOS bunch of minis is not that far away from whay 2400 points of fantasy used to be say a year ago (depending on the army of course)

[@memnarch129]

+Lucas Perez Yes but they MINIMUM to get in is much lower. Before your talking BRB, 70, Army book, 50, Hero, 25, and at least two boxes of troops, 35. So your paying a minimum of 220 just to get started. Now the minimum could be you just want to do a 1v1 with someone else starting and they guy you like is 25. So compare 25 to a Minimum of 220, thats a LOT more appealing to others. Also you dont have specific points so while a box of Eternals might cost 50 its not like you have to have 2 of them just to start playing.

[@saiintFPS]

I know this is late but I've build a 113 wound army (with I think around 2k points for 8th ed) completely to my liking with £160. I have 40 infantry models (20 swords,10 crossbows, 10 greatswords). 6 single model units (3 wizards, warrior priest, witch hunter, general.) 3 Monster models (Demigryphs) and a character (volkmar on a war altar) and a Helblaster volley cannon. Considering this is a legacy army I'm saving about £120 on not buying the books.

[@thomasrowswell3604]

I agree with everything you just said, I'm a 32 yr old tabletop right player who has always been interested, but intimidated to get into war gaming. This past weekend I happened to walk into a warhammer store and the guy running the store got me interested enough into AOS that I made some purchases and am now in the process of learning everything. So far having a blast

[@Rob-qe3cg]

I will be brief: Everything you say is true. But if it's 4 pages of inkjet rules and the same models, why did it need to replace the old game?

[@christophergrabenhorst904]

Because when they are trying to revitalize something that loses them money, having to versions of a game confuses new players. No game or company would do this. People don't quite grasp how much fantasy was tanking. in the end there were reports of it comprising 5%!!!! of their revenue.

[@monte6777]

There's a lot more rules on the warscrolls and the models.

[@EdGrzetich]

Thank you for the considerate and well-stated thoughts quite contrary to the Internet zeitgeist but quite in line with a reasonable assessment of the game. Applause for Uncle Atom, one of the most eloquent and thoughtful commentators on the miniatures gaming hobby!

[@tabletopminions]

+Ed Grzetich Wow! Thank you so much for your eloquent and thoughtful comment! I really appreciate it, and thanks for watching!

[@thelnorn1]

I've been a long time fantasy player also, since the beginning of my fifth edition. This latest roll out for Age of Sigmar has got me painting more than I have in years. There is something about the freedom of it all makes you want to put things together paint it and play. When we would play league games at the store I could see perspective players, or their parents, enthusiasm drain when we would explain what it would take to play. Now I can tell them all the boxes are there, anything they want to play is fine, they can put it together paint it how they like, and best of all the rules are free online and simple to learn. Great video.

[@tabletopminions]

+Thelnorn1 I have to admit, I've been painting a ton the last few months (not just for Age of Sigmar) but the Age of Sigmar stuff has been most on my mind. I'd like to bring a bunch of it to Adepticon and hopefully get some games in there. Thanks for watching!

[@miathompson337]

I totally agree! I was completely intigued by the whole idea of painting my own models by hand before using them in tiny battles with other people, but I didn't feel like learning the rules to a complicated game. Then, when I walked into Games Workshop one time just to browse and see what the games looked like etc... I fell in love with Age of Sigmar (I have always been into Fantasy). However, I still did not fancy a heavy book just about the rules. Then, when the man who was working at the store handed me a four-page booklet of rules, I was completely surprised and ended up walking out of the store with all of the essential tools, some models (although only three small goblin-type creatures) and some paint. Therefore, I think that this version of the game is, as you said, the perfect strategy for GW to bring in multiple younger and/or new customers!!

[@tabletopminions]

It's true, and I'm glad to hear it's working. Thanks for watching!

[@miathompson337]

Thank YOU for making videos that I actually enjoy watching all the way through! ;)

[@nasty3348]

So, I work with a guy who had me play X-wing with him and I enjoyed it. I was always a nonbeliever as an adult but always thought the miniatures looked cool. But, I'm a gamer at heart. I play WoW and love fantasy and need something else to fill my time. I came across Age of Sigmar as I was trying to find the end of the internet and it grabbed me. Fast forward two weeks and I've subscribed to your channel, Miniwargaming and Wargaming Girl. I bought my first stormcast eternal Liberator on ebay and am trying to find cheap paint to see if I like this experience. I pour over the free warscroll app reading up on these cool warriors. I think your salient discussion is exactly what drew me to this genre of gaming. I AM NOT spending $700 on an army. But, I might be able to stomach spending ~100ish (to get it past the sniff test of my wife) to try this hobby. Great show. I look forward to watching more.

[@tabletopminions]

+nasty33 I think it's a great hobby, even if you don't play. It's probably even a bit cheaper if you don't play, as you can then pick and choose what you want to paint rather than something you might 'need' for your army. Thanks for watching!

[@lucioluciolucio85]

I buy and paint Age of Sigmar miniatures cause they are cool. The detal level is quite high even if i dont like some styles (like the simil ultra-marine...never liked 40k style). But i can understand the people that played warhammer fantasy for years and now have nothing left. Plus, the prices of miniatures are quite high compared to other companies (Avatars of War,Scibor etc...)

[@taithays]

+lucioluciolucio85 They don't have nothing left, they can still play with their friends. It's just that they won't have anything new from now on. A lot of angry gamers forget about the fact that they can still play. Nobody forces them to play Aos if they don't want to. A lot of people always said that GW wants their money and that the hobby is too expensive, now they are free :D.

[@lucioluciolucio85]

taithays Indeed. Not a problem for me, i just collect cool miniatures so... :)

[@titanterrainstudio]

+taithays I've embraced that as a positive of the move to AOS for warhammer fantasy. Now I can have an end point in sight for my massive horde of warriors of chaos collection! Locally we have a 9th age group starting up & kings of war have army lists for the old warhammer fantasy now.

[@arscheerio]

+lucioluciolucio85 I thought scibor minis are super expensive. like $30 for one person

[@lucioluciolucio85]

Blake Piercy I saw some (like 10 dwarfs) for 30$. But i know that "heroes" are more expensive and the detail-level is amazing.

[@ratman7976]

I’ve started playing Age of Sigmar but some of the lore isn’t fleshed out enough for me

[@bainbonic]

Personally I love Age of Sigmar, it's revitalised Warhammer Fantasy in my area. Not to mention that it's brilliantly designed in that it's perfectly balanced in terms of armies, no one army is more powerful than another because *everyone's* OP. And to paraphrase The Incredibles, when everyone's OP, no one's OP.

[@tabletopminions]

+Bainbow That's a good point about everyone being OP. I know a lot of Fantasy players who looked at the warscrolls and said, "Wow, [crappy unit name goes here] doesn't suck any more. That's kinda cool!" I suspect it was part of GW's plan. Thanks for watching!

[@Gnulash]

I came into the hobby a few months after aos dropped, and it has fit my needs perfectly. I mostly want to paint what I want a maybe play a game sometimes. With the ease of entry, I have over the past 5 months bought books, audio books, just came home from a painting session with a friend and I am getting close to a couple of armies of variable sizes. I enjoy it immensely, and since I buy what I want, not what I need, it makes the painting a playing so fun. It's like different consoles (I come from a video gaming background); some want the ps4, some want a wii u. There are now wrong answers, just the right answer for you personally. If you make the right choice for you, great :)

[@tabletopminions]

+Marius Mikkelsen A completely reasonable response, excellent! Glad to hear you're getting into it, too. Thanks for watching!

[@ryangahman1133]

As someone who just began getting into miniature war gaming, I do find AOS to be an easy and interesting game to play. The other editions seemed very complicated and I never understood the army books concept. Obviously, those who were accustomed to the earlier editions will find AOS to probably be too easy and unchallenging. But I figured that the new game was more for people like me who were just beginning. This was an excellently prepared video! It was Informative and really defended the other side of players. Well done Atom 👍love your videos btw!

[@tabletopminions]

+Ryan Gahman Thanks, I really appreciate it! I feel like I rarely actually prepare for these types of videos, so I'm glad it comes across as if I'm a prepared adult. Thanks for watching!

[@chrisintx5844]

you sold me..my place down the street is running this on Thursday nights..and like you said.if i dont have tons of extra cash but wanna get into a hobby this seems like it would do the trick..thanks for the video..needed something to validate checking it out

[@scottseaver4070]

Age of sigmar and it's low barrier of entry is why I'm coming to play. New players are popping up everywhere. before it was a couple of grumbly dudes in the back with buckets and boxes of models, but now is fresh and vibrant. My few models go a long way and I can pull out my 5 extra formations of models and drastically change the composition of my army every game. Also, these new simple rules means i'm not constantly getting blind sided by BS rules every turn.. every game. it's fun.

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it. Thanks for watching!

[@bybeewins]

What green colors did you use on the horse barding for the chaos cavalry @3:07? Awesome job!

[@tabletopminions]

+T “Claymaker52” DB I primed the models black, then dusted them from above with white primer. Later, I just used the green wash from Army Painter's line of washes, and that's how it comes out. They work great. I'm doing my Warriors of Chaos capes the same way. Thanks for watching!

[@bybeewins]

its a great effect, I may just use it on the Abyssal Dwarf army I'm putting together for Kings of War! I love how it makes the steel pop.

[@tabletopminions]

+T “Claymaker52” DB They're going to be in my mostly Nurgle army, so I wanted them to have some green. Thanks for watching!

[@kyan4303]

My problem with Age of Sigmar is actually fairly simple. I LOVE the look of the models, especially the new models. I was never into old fantasy because there were no players in my area, although I wish I had been at this point. my biggest gripe is that they bill the game as a beer and pretzels type of game, with a very limited rule set and a pretty flexible format. But here is the big problem. it is NOT a beer and pretzels type of game for the cost. My store offers at 10% discount on all GW products but i still see boxes of 5 models going for 70 dollars. The big monster minis like a big greater demon or Carnosaur can run you easily over 120 dollars for just 1 model. While there is nothing in the rules saying you can't play with just 1 model I have to point out, that is lame. You want to play with a large army, and get some model diversity but that will run you a few hundred dollars. Compare that to Warmachine, where for the same amount of money you could invest in a super solid game, with very well done rules and a very active and competitive environment and with actual support from the parent company. To me it is a no brainer.

[@MrKichtopher]

@tabletopminions So which boxes/units were you referring to that could be a low investment way to get started playing AOS right away?

[@Elchocoxx]

If you wish to dive into a fantasy setting, you should give Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings a try. It's really great and Para-bellum are producing a ton of minis !

[@anthonyambrose8783]

I think this is a great point. I am an older guy but getting into 40k for the first time. I have a little money to throw around so I can but I know a lot of people have been doing this a long time. You need new people to keep things going and expand. You can tell GW is changing up the ground game and I would not be surprised if we start seeing it become big, even huge in the next few years. That can be good and bad but at least it will keep going. I am very glad to see AoS still kicking and hope it gets even bigger.

[@Kazuma6696]

I just recently got into the hobby and I'm loving it. Grabbed a start collecting set for Stormcast Eternals for like 80 bucks which came with quite a few guys. Once I played my first game I snagged a starter kit on sale for 90 from my local shop and now I have quite the army and I'm loving it. Found a lot of newer players as well and we are all having a great time.

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear you're getting into the hobby. Thanks for watching!

[@Runenschuppe]

A great video. As someone who has worked part-time in a GW store in my past, you're describing a problem we encountered frequently. Those youngsters with the one or two boxes they can afford with their combined pocket money. And then you tell them they need paints. And a rule book. And an Army Book. And you see their smile fading because they realize they don't have that money. The same with older costumers who are curious and would like to do a little project just to see if it's for them. Just a small army. But unless they wanted to play High Elves or Skaven no chance. They heard the price and that was it. They calculated what else they could buy for that price. More often than not that potential new wargamer turned around and put the boxes back on the shelves. Both sides disappointed. Because neither got what they wanted. The interesting thing is, Codexes/Army Books/Battle Tomes still sell. No matter if you can download a black&white sheet online. It's the story, the artworks and the feeling of a book in your hand that people are willing to pay for. But for those that can't afford both the book and the miniatures... well, just print them out/take the rules out of the box. But as always, GW has no idea how to treat its costumerbase. The smart move would have been to draw the development out. Update Skaven/Beastmen/Bretonia Army books and give a few models. Then announce End Times. Use ET to merge armies (just as they did): Death, Destruction, Chaos, Order (Eternity Elves, Grand Alliance (Dwarves/Empire/Bretonia), Lizardmen). They could have drastically reduced boxes and partially prices needed for basic games while providing additional upgrade sets to create your army in the old style (making it more expensive overall in that case). If GW had kept WHFB as a general system in combination with AoS and made the pdf for all the rules accessible via their home page there would have been much less of an outcry.

[@ЮрийОрлов-д5ц]

At first sorry for my english? its not my native. I think make a mistake. As you said cost to play WhFB(in my country at least) was preaty high, but why destroy old grim FB and create fairy tale of Sigmar? WhFB was about playing armies, they can create free WhFB skirmish rules for 5-10 models based on main rules. So any one can buy box of orks and play with friend who bought box of rats. And there were a lot less problem with comunity. I played wargames earlier(before wh) miniatures was ugly rules are too simple(warrior with sword in fullplate have same stats as warrior in mail with axe) i liked to write some stories about it. When i first came to local miniatures shop i liked both WhFB and 40k worlds and miniatures. I whanted to buy and play High Elves and Eldar, but i was a student at that time. But when i finally got some free money they destroyed WhFB. FB was cool it can be any thing from simple good-evil wars to some grey situations(good vs good). But AoS looks like a fairy tale(yes miniatures is cool not all but cool). I have no interest in AoS lore. If i buy some miniatures from AoS onely to plase it on rack(cabinet i mean). And now i wont buy 40k, im afraid that all ends with another AoS. GW make a mistake.

[@ibtheshoe]

My son is really excited about this game and has never been into miniatures or anything outside of xbox or ps. I was able to get him into it today for about the cost of a new xbox game. (Granted it's only 7 figures, paint, glue, cutters, brushes, and a starter book.) I don't know how or if he will stick with it but I'm glad I'm not shelling out hundreds of dollars. Before we walked into the shop I'd never been interested due to rumors about cost and how complex the game/hobby was. I'm glad my son is a part of Age of Sigmar because without it being simpler and less costly we would have walked past and never taken the chance due to cost. Lets face it miniatures and these types of games are not for everyone but the more accessible and simpler to get into it the better for everyone. My son is a great example of exactly what your talking about. (Oh yeah... I'm thinking I'll be joining him with an army of Death.)

[@tabletopminions]

Great! I'm really glad you're able to get him into it, and that you're able to get into it yourself. Thanks for watching!

[@paulstrickland2958]

I agree! I was never into fantasy before AoS. I actually used AoS as a jumping on point to start a Lizardmen army. Unfortunately, the AoS and Fantasy scene in my area isn't all that big.

[@moes80]

For what it is worth, it has been a good move at my local store. Fantasy games were quite rare, but we have played regularly once or twice a week after the new rules came out. At first, it was just me and the store owner, but we have added two more players since then, and interest is growing. What I loved right away was the fact that I could just put down all my models. I had a zombie dragon sitting in my closet for years that I finally dragged out and put together because I could finally field him without having to play a 3,000 point 7-hour game. The same goes for starting new armies and adding units. The new Iron Jawz look amazing, and I love that I can just buy 2-3 boxes of stuff and I'm ready to play with them, either by themselves or as an add-on unit to one of my other armies. I do miss the old lore. I would of rather had the Old World be a post-apocalyptic wasteland rather than just completely blow it up. But, I can still play the old armies in the Old World, nothing is stopping me. I also miss certain elements, like perils of the warp, flaking attacks, routing units, and I still use movement trays! But overall, I love AoS.

[@tabletopminions]

+moes80 I kind of consider Age of Sigmar to be post-apocalyptic. Just not in a Mad Max kind of way. Thanks for watching!

[@tvulcan6087]

currently trying to get into wargaming, this convinced me AoS is worth it, especially now with the generals handbook. thanks!

[@tabletopminions]

+Trevor Brinkhoff Glad you're getting into it. Have fun, and thanks for watching!

[@TheMuffinMan328]

I think that this is a great thing. I am relatively new to the warhammer community, and I am building a small Dark Angels army to start. But the only reason I am building Dark Angels is because that is what came in the Dark Vengeance box set, so I could get the rules, models, and other excessories for super cheap. The main thing that keeps me from going into another army is the cost of the rulebooks. If I could have a simple, free pdf for all of the rules, and a free codex sheet I would have built a Blood angels army instead.

[@tabletopminions]

+TheMuffinMan328 Several wargaming companies are starting to release a free version of their rules via PDF. If you want all the fluff and hobby stuff, you usually need to buy the physical book, but you can start playing without it. I'm quite sure it's selling more miniatures. Thanks for watching!

[@jamesgordley5000]

They should have simply made a new edition of Warhammer that was simplified much like AoS, but also made an "Apocalypse"-style expansion so that when people amassed enough miniatures they would organize their force into regiments and play just like old Warhammer. Everybody would've won (no silly new background lore).

[@tabletopminions]

+James Gordley They seemed set on switching everything to round bases, so I'm not sure how well that would have worked. Interesting idea, though. Thanks for watching!

[@jamesgordley5000]

+Tabletop Minions Well, they did gave us ranks of Uruk-Hai pikemen and whatnot in LotR (which was all on round bases, and covered battles of every size). The biggest problem I can think of is making bigger movement trays for slightly looser formations (due to the width of round bases), and telling the WH vets how spaced out their old square-based models should be if they're playing against a newer player. But how inconvenient is that, in comparison to having the whole thing wiped out? :)

[@VoltanIgnatio]

Great video. 20 year veteran and I agree! I can still play 9thAge which is a community driven rule set for Warhammer Fantasy, with other fans of the big version of the game - now with better, evolving rules - but also can play AoS too, and meet new people and players - and collect any minis I want. The new ones look great... My 10 year old self would explode at the quality of mini's available now!

[@tabletopminions]

+Voltan Ignatio Yeah! I just picked up The Glottkin, and that model is amazing. It'll be a huge project to paint, but I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for watching!

[@hellboy2097]

See I got into Fantasy via Mordheim, and I am still into Mordheim, I love that game. The slow death of Mordheim always irked me and though its not a dead game per se, trying to get a game of it is nigh on impossible. I eventually upgraded to a full WFB army and then got a few games in and just as I was getting into it the End Times happened and the Old World got smushed and Age of Sigmar was spawned. What irks me about AOS is the horrible way that GW killed the old world, that NEVER needed to happen. The massive over simplification and mockery of long term players that occured with the "updated" army rules. I also utterly detest the rampant and heavy handed copyrighting/trademarking of everything now i.e, its not a Dragon its a Magmaroth or its not an Orc its and Orruk, it feels like GW saying "if you aren't using our stuff you are against us." I think what I'm saying is that I can be OK with the game itself and GW still make some great minis (though the amount of Zbrush sculpts over traditional sculpted models is starting to push me away but thats another matter.) but I hate, hate, hate how they handled the transition from Old World to the Sigmarverse. Oh and yeah this stuff is still freakishly expensive.... I really need to try Frostgrave.

[@IDICBeer]

Sounds about right to me, although I don't play Fantacy

[@warhammerclipsandbits910]

I'm really really pleased with AOS. As a casual, it's the first ruleset I can understand and play smoothly.

[@tabletopminions]

It's really a great move for GW as a company, I agree. Thanks for watching!

[@MeAndMyShadowBand]

when I was 12 in 1992, my parents bought me Hero Quest because I thought it looked super cool. I loved it, barely found anyone who would play it with me, but didn't give a crap. I saw a small brochure inside for games workshop, which talked about WH Fantasy, 40k and Space Hulk which had just come out. I was hooked. Mom bought me Fantasy (don't remember what edition). I painted the entire Elf and Goblin armies. I read the rulebook over and over, and the accompanying "battle bestiary." When we drove to Wichita away from our small town (which had no game shop), I got to go and buy a goblin rider buying a spider, some snotlings and even a catapult. However, in the small KS town where I grew up, there weren't any other 12 year olds who wanted to do this. I never played one game with anyone. The years went by and now all I have left is a goblin archer or two. I would kill just to see the Battle Bestiary again! So I still dig the crap out of the lore, even bought a few space marines to paint for fun, but still never got into it. Too expensive, don't know anyone who plays and not really wild about showing up at the local shop as a total noob. But I still LOVE the fluff. So I found this channel and a bunch of the lore channels and have been watching, and last night I heard about this new edition of Fantasy, if that's what you'd even call it. Hearing your take on it, it almost sounds to me like I can get back into it, and not give up all my discretionary income. I think it's a good thing.

[@tabletopminions]

+Me And My Shadow It's a really good thing, and I hope you do get back into it and start painting and playing again. Thanks for your story, and thanks for watching!

[@HodgizeroNeo]

ok while Your Argument is a Good one I Would like to Counter with this. Why did they have to Kill Fantasy to do it, they could have put some effort into a skirmish version of fantasy or even a bridge game of fantasy into 40K that was skirmish based or even a re-release of Mordheim (skirmish version of Fantasy from 6th ED) where the most models any player Needs to have is 20 and that is only if you play Skaven or Orcs and Goblins (there might be other warbands to idk) but for most the warbands the model cap is 15 but as it stands they completely discontinued and killed off an entire game in their effort

[@ThePhloop]

+Isaac Hudzinski "Why did they have to Kill Fantasy to do it" That's absolutely my main point of contention. Make a new game! Make a new IP! Is GW THAT creatively bankrupt?

[@Onionsred]

Never had a chance do dive into fantasy before, I tried but never managed to finish a decent 'list' to actually play. So this was amazing news for me. At first I was skeptical about the sudden change. But I couldn't be happier, haven't painted and enjoyed warhammer this much since I was that 12 year old kid.

[@TheRunesmythe]

Let the tide of anger and rage flow in... I must be in that odd minority of "veteran" Fantasy players who actually don't mind these changes. I think the fact that they made it into a system where you can choose what scale of game (i.e. skirmish, full on huge army, etc.) is probably one of the best things they could have done for the system. That old cost prohibitive entry barrier was one of the most cited reasons people wouldn't get into Fantasy and I can't say that I blame them; even the "starter army boxes" were borderline false advertising since it you didn't nearly enough of the unit types and it was highly unlikely you were going to find someone who was willing to play that small of a point count game. If you were lucky enough, those boxes were still ridiculously priced for what little you got in them and you *still* needed that huge rules book to play. The new four page, streamlined rules have just enough complexity in them to make for interesting games even with a small warband. Combine that with the fact that you can download them for free, along with the war scrolls for old models, and what you've got is a move that should have been appealing to players, if most of us weren't so fearful and resentful of any sort of change to a game/system we like. I'm not saying all new editions of games are great (D & D 4th ed. a.k.a. the tabletop mmo) and that gamers are all stubborn curmudgeons, but we do have a track record of being catastrophically resistant to the very idea of changing anything about our favorite franchises.

[@tabletopminions]

+TheRunesmythe Yes, the barrier to entry has gotten *much* smaller with Age of Sigmar, and I really think that was their main goal, for once. And true, they had to expect resistance, but it does seem like the hullabaloo has started to die down. Thanks for watching!

[@saiintFPS]

I got my first job in a toy store a couple months ago (which sold GW) and gave myself a £200 budget to create a warhammer army ( I wasn't sure what I was going to play). I initially wanted a chaos 40k army but then realised i had to for out half of the budget just to get some books and that the £50 starter box featured units that were considered weak. Then I looked at AoS. I've always been a fantasy buff (strong like for human factions IE Gondor/Imperials(TES)/Andor(Wheel Of Time) pushed me to my army). And realised I could create a large army (2k points on the SDK system or 120 wounds) that fit the playstyle I wanted which was a magic heavy buff army and could be semi competitive whilst still being visually appealing. Thus I patched together a 2k SDK list that I'd work my way towards (after watching enough battle reports to learn the rules and how to play). I think I've spent £70 so far and I have a small Empire force (10xSwords/shields, 10xcrossbows/10xgreatswords/3xdemigryphs) with the hero units and 10 more swords arriving next week. Within 3 weeks and with around £160 I was able to create an army large enough that pretty much anyone at my local WW with an AOS army will be willing to battle it and one that is completely tailored to my personal playstyle preference.

[@mariusdire]

That's precisely why I've liked this change. I played fantasy back when I was in school, but in the end it was too expensive a hobby to keep up, especially after heading off to uni when you're working a retail job, paying rent and puting food on the table. Big armies were just not possible for me, and if you wanted to play more than the beginner's games 2000 points was about the minimum. Plus with the compulsory army composition I was stuck using a specific play-style unless an opponent agreed I could use the alternative army list at the back of the army book. I played Vampire Counts, so standard list means sandbag units with a few harder hitters which had the potential to be glass canons, the alternative list in one of the army books was a specifically Blood Dragon army which was small but based around more elite troops like Grave Guard and Black Knights being core units rather than special/elite. Now with AoS I can make a small but elite force (and summon GG and BK rather than just skeletons and zombies), making for an undead army that can actually manoeuvre. I also can see the game system lending itself to more complex tactics (despite naysayers claiming the game has no depth). For example having a heavily armoured unit form a line to receive a charge while a less armoured unit with longer weapons e.g. spears, is behind them, using the longer reach of the weapons (as each weapon, including melee weapons have ranges) i.e. a shieldwall. Or melee caracole cavalry (especially if they get a charge bonus), you have waves of cav one behind the other, essentially shielding the ones behind from missiles, the front unit charges as the ones behind move up, a single turn of combat, then get out, either getting ready to attack a different unit or going to the back (and replenish in the case of undead or in some armies be healed by a wizard). Next turn the next unit repeats the pattern and so on. Finally drawing on Pike and Shot tactics you form a triangle with armoured melee units (or the aforementioned shieldwall) but with a small (say 1 inch gap) at the points where you have missile units stationed just outside. As the enemy approaches the missile units have good lines of sight. But as soon as the enemy get towards charge range they can retreat behind the melee units whose 3 inch zone of control prevents the missile units being charged, particularly good for scenarios when a defender holds the centre of the table and is attacked from multiple sides (if there's high ground in the centre place artillery there a la Napoleonic squares, if not use a corner).

[@tabletopminions]

Sounds great! Thanks for watching!

[@tyleredwards8109]

I’m 25 and my gf is 22 and we just started playing AoS because of how easy it was to start. We love it so far

[@Dosedmonkey]

I've gone and bought Storm of Sigmar and the citadel essentials kit. Great only £40 to experience the new rules after 12 years of not playing Fantasy or 40k. And guess what, now I'm hooked again. the shorter rules sure need some more depth, in the form of expansions or at least a better army points system. But besides that huge improvement. Much easier to access and do whilst having a busy work rota. I think a few friends are buying in to it thanks to Sigmar too.

[@alfthewolf4131]

Dear uncle atom,I've recently invested in the small AoS starter kit "storm of sigma" after almost ten years from stopping playing 40k. I was wondering does AoS have the freedom that 40k offered I.e. invented pretty the much what you want chapter/heroes etc. I've spent a lot of time to research (for free admittedly) but everything seems very set in stone. Other than the odd post on instagram I rarely see a stormcast army that isn't ultramarine (my apologises blue and gold). Adding to this the models seem very set, I'm struggling to find a hero who is almost a blank sheet to build on for example a space marine captain (the name may have changed...) was pretty much an open book to build as you saw fit. I've watched many of your videos and heard how you suggest this is a gateway game to 40k.I understand due to the basic game being free its unreasonable of me to expect the depth that 40k offered, however I would like to atleast construct my army/heroes/warscolls as I choose. What are you thoughts? Is there possibility to play storm cast not loyal to sigmar? I apologise if my comment appears stupid, I've be out of the "fluff" of war games a while. I really enjoy your videos, building my enthusiasm enough to make a return!Kind regardsConnor

[@tabletopminions]

You can paint them however you want. In fact, the hardcover original Age of Sigmar book shows tons of different paint schemes for the Stormcasts. Thanks for watching!

[@henrikdewolf6154]

another nice thing about Age of Sigmar, at least in my experience, is that it really stimulates players to get creative with converting/kit-bashing models. I play savage orcs/orks/orruks and I actually started playing after I had already build a decent army. The only problem was, that I had converted most of my models to dual wield spears, or to make their arms wave around even more etc, which made it a hellish job to fit them into a movement tray. However, now with age of sigmar, I am not restricted to square units (which imho does not make any sense at all for a race that presumably consists of war-monging gorillas who don't even have the patience to care for their weapons properly), and I can freely move my boyz around as much as I want. There are also other people at my local gw who, because of the whole "measure from the model and not the base rule", try to convert their models so that they can e.g. reach more enemies when they pile in, or are harder to reach because of the base. Which in these cases results in awesome looking models.

[@tabletopminions]

+Henrik De Wolf Yes, I'm enjoying the fact that my figures don't have to fit into specific blocks anymore, it gives me more modeling freedom. Thanks for watching!

[@Flamethrower1942]

The points you raise are good and i agree with you that it made business sense for GW to do age of sigmar,however i still feel GW could have kept WHFB alive as a separate game within the same world,all GW had to do was make a simple skirmish set of rules in the WHFB old world,and kept WHFB as a scaled up version of the game. But i suppose the suits wanted a complete re-branding of the setting so that why we ended up with age of sigmar.I do miss the Lore and appeal of the old world be nice if GW do something with it again even if its warmaster again id be happy with that.

[@memnarch129]

+Conan the Barbarian Problem is then they are adding to costs and not replacing. If you simply put AoS as an alternative then your still paying to make Fantasy and its only make 17% of your profits. This wasnt a situation of "how can we boost Fantasy sales" it was "Fantasy either has to go or we have to DRASTICALLY increase sales".

[@ljari1]

And what exactly prevented them from adding the unit rules to the box? You could’ve bought skellies and have their stats in the box. What prevented them from making a shorter, easier rules? And about the model count - they increased it themselves, look at the model count increase between 6th and 8th. What prevented them from introducing new game formats like open and narrative play? And now AoS changed - you have 25 battletomes on GW website which give you a special rules for your faction. Models are still expensive and for a matched play you need at least 1000 points which is a lot of models, and thus cash. On top of that you need to add new books like Generals Handbook each year with additional rules, books like Morathi or Teclis and it makes the cost of the game even higher. Today typical matched play game for 2k points is similar in model count to 2k WFB 6th ed. There is one, major advantage that AoS has though and it’s bigger bases - models can have more dynamic poses and generally look better. I wish that when we’ll finally return to the Old World we’ll get new bases, square but larger. Or round as in ME on square movement trays. That would allow using the models i skirmish and big games easily.

[@danmorgan3685]

Age of Sigmar didn't kill Fantasy in my area. Fantasy killed Fantasy. The player base had acquired all they wanted and were only added the occasional purchase to their collection. Fantasy battle was utterly stagnant the price point (thanks to GW) for entry was insane. The lore - despite being a major obsession - was middling at best. Worst of all whole armies were non-viable due to this or that minor tweak to the rules. The cavalry nerf ruined Bretonnia for example. One edition spears were the way to go then it was pole arms. That hurt Fantasy a lot because it was such a transparent way to force people to buy new models. They really needed to redo the rules but they didn't stop there. The setting was the strongest element of the game but they chose to completely destroy it and I think that's what hurt them the most. The second most destructive thing was the presentation of the Sigmar rules. It looked like quick start rules so a lot of people felt cheated. It turned out the war scrolls was were a lot of the rules were. GW didn't convey that to the customer base very well and that lead to a lot of people feeling cheated.

[@tabletopminions]

+Dan Morgan Games Workshop is terrible at PR. Has been for years. I'm astounded at how an organization that big can stink at PR and marketing that much. Think of how amazing they'd be right now if they were actually good at PR and marketing. Thanks for watching!

[@danmorgan3685]

Tabletop Minions I don't directly follow GW as I don't play their games. I do talk with a lot of gamers who do. One little nugget a friend told me about was how GW doesn't do market research. If this is true it means they have no idea what is going on with their customer base or even who really makes up their customer base. That is just asking for trouble.

[@tabletopminions]

+Dan Morgan I swear they did a survey a few years back, but generally, no - they don't seem to do market research. They don't interact with their customers much at all. Thanks for watching!

[@christophergrabenhorst904]

ehhh, the world was generic in the end and writing killed most of the great characters. AoS world is.... weird. But in the end, it's just a fantasy world where instead of a bridge to another country, it's a portal. Simple way to look at it.

[@danmorgan3685]

Chris Grabenhorst That is true. The setting wasn't great but it was the games best element. The wargame RPG did some interesting things with the setting and some of it had good atmosphere. Compared to the rules themselves the setting was great.

[@Lord_Aussem]

I completely agree with you. It made me interested in starting an army. I started Bretonnians because of it. Although they shut down a lot of the old miniature ranges. I sold my minis for almost twice the value!

[@tabletopminions]

Nice, good profit. Thanks for watching!

[@MrLecourbe]

Please, bring back the Empire and Franz or I will cry :'(

[@tabletopminions]

Wait, Franz is going to cry? He doesn't seem the type. Thanks for watching!

[@MrThisisghey]

I have this crazy theory that the Celestant-Prime is Franz.

[@MrLecourbe]

+Tabletop Minions I'm sure it will something like - Oh Karl Franz, where did you go? - I just came back from somewehrearoundtheoldworld. - Oh! And you are alone? - I have a 3 millions of men behind me. - Oh god...

[@timotheegauthier8830]

Thank you so much for this. You may have finished changing my viewpoint. I was never a hardcore collector, I just love painting and never bothered to get into actually playing. But my big issue is the lore changes, but maybe I just need to dig deeper. Maybe I can find a slice in the lore that I like still. The new minis look cool, though the new irks do look like space marine orks to me still. I really wanna try painting a few of em.

[@tabletopminions]

Some of those new Ork models are really amazing. Thanks for watching!

[@tomeee231]

Dude, your voice is a smooth as the butter on my morning toast!!!

[@tabletopminions]

+PrettyWide I've gotten compliments on my voice many time, but never quite like that. Thanks for watching!

[@soundwave810]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on AoS. I don't think my local gaming ship knows about the rules because when I inquired about AoS, they gave the impression that I HAD to get all new books. Which to me would've been a pain to buy. Knowing that I can download the rules and Warscrolls for each army makes me want to attempt to play Warhammer again after not playing, but buying models about 15 years ago. So yeah, I'm back in. Good thing I didn't sell my models. Lol.

[@Skoozi]

+soundwave810 all the AoS books are mostly fluff with some battle plans which are just various scenarios to add some narrative to the games. All core rules are absolutely free.

[@tabletopminions]

+soundwave810 Check 'em out. I think you'll like them, especially if you haven't played in awhile. Thanks for watching!

[@tabletopminions]

+Skoo Zi This guy knows the score. Thanks for watching!

[@bencoomer2000]

They killed my faction almost as an afterthought and wife's got melded with her rivals. Not exactly a great intro to us.

[@mortisveritas]

Tomb Kings getting killed and Elves getting melded or?

[@andreap8343]

Ex tomb king player, here. I feel your pain bro. At least we had a last army book before being erased, some were even unluckier that us (bretonnia)

[@swordssolitude3861]

What are the figures from in the top slice of your boiler plate? Them skeletons and vampires

[@tabletopminions]

The skeletons are from Manticores Games and the guy with the robe is a Games Workshop necromancer. Thanks for watching!

[@maximusspqr]

It's not a weird gene, it's an awesome gene!

[@tabletopminions]

+Brian Hayne I like to think so, too. Thanks for watching!

[@cmun55]

Well thank you very much because I used to collect warhammer like 15 years ago and I am trhinking of starting again now. Your video has given me some light about this matter.

[@tabletopminions]

+Javier Dabbah Velázquez It's a very good time to get back in, frankly. Thanks for watching!

[@newhoped]

Age of sigmar killed fantasy in my area.

[@banhammer7243]

+newhoped So people stopped playing because of Age of Sigmar? Did their 8th Edition rule books suddenly burst into flames or all the words fall off the pages?

[@newhoped]

Banhammer72 No interest in age of sigmar and knowing old style fantasy isn't going to supported anymore, they moved on simple as that.

[@banhammer7243]

Or supported by the player who claim to prefer it over AoS it seems!

[@JohnW78]

Our store ran one league and had to stop since everyone hated it so much. The rules make for a shoddy skirmish game at best, so people just moved on to something else.

[@HuliJingTheFox]

+newhoped Same happened in my area. Some of the new sigmar boxes sold, but only because people were using the models for conversions or too have them sit on a shelf. Some people were trying to organize games and possibly a league, but they found the game was completely incapable of balanced play hence killing peoples enthusiasm for anything, but a few one offs every month or so. Fact is Age of Sigmar can't support leagues, tournaments or even campaigns hell it feels more like a board game then a minitures game. A decent board game, but nothing I would waste more then a hour or so on a week.

[@teoiny1]

As someone who is returning to the hobby and is on a limited budget, and also primarily interested in collecting & painting AoS seems to be created just for me!

[@tabletopminions]

+Eoin O'Connell I would say that's exactly what they did. Thanks for watching!

[@iamalpharius6288]

IMO age of sigmar was a radical move and it shows how very little they cared about their fans. Maybe they could of took some cost cutting measures and lowered the prices of models, make a starter box where you could choose the two armies, mini rule books and army books where you didn't have to buy the starter box just to get it, maybe even market it a bit more than just space marines all the time. I can't stand the lore behind AOS and the fact it has no points values is ridiculous. Doesn't look like AOS saved them much as units and now even a faction is being wiped out. On another note something which really grinds my gears is when people say they wanted to get into fantasy but was put off by the large blocks and other game mechanics which made warhammerFB warhammerFB, AOS is far from what warhammerFB was.

[@tabletopminions]

I liked the look of many of the models, but didn't like the rank and flank style nor the number of models I was going to need to field an army. Age of Sigmar is more enjoyable to me because it fixes both of those problems. Thanks for watching!

[@thegamesman5621]

Can I ask though, what do you think about the new price of Age of Sigmar, Most of the new boxes for the new armies and updated miniatures are minimum $70 Aus and average price is $90 Aus and with most characters are $50 - $70 Aus. Also what about the new large miniature price like Archeaon being newly $300 AUS. Yes they are extremely nice miniatures but even for some one who has been playing 40K for 7 years and fanatsy for 5 I wince at the new prices every week.

[@tabletopminions]

+The Gamesman I think that GW will probably keep raising prices (of both Age of Sigmar AND 40k) to cover their lagging profits until they realize that people won't pay it any more. And it sucks that you Australians keep getting the dirty end of the stick. Thanks for watching!

[@thegamesman5621]

thanks for the answer and good vid btw

[@eyeh8u1]

I'm late to comment on this video but here it goes...I was a dedicated Warhammer 40k player for about 15 years. I never got into Warhammer Fantasy. Never cared about. Never paid any attention to it. As it sometimes happens, I kinda got out of tabletop gaming (which is to say 40k) for almost 10 years because of work, too many other hobbies, not enough time/money....life. But, I always kinda kept up with the 40k universe. I'd buy an issue of White Dwarf here and there. I'd check out the website every now and then. Played the video games. I always wanted to "get back into it". When Age of Sigmar came out, I, like with Fantasy, really didn't pay any attention to it. I thought it was just some sort of "expansion" for Warhammer Fantasy or whatever. Fast fwd to 8/16...I finally decide it was time for my triumphant return to wargamming. I drove down to my local Games Workshop and I spent more time looking at the AoS stuff than I did the 40k. I ended up buying the "Storm of Sigmar" mini-starter set and the new issue of White Dwarf with the free Slaughterpriest mini. Long story short, I am again hooked on tabletop gaming. I went in fully expecting to get back into 40k and have since become enamored (obsessed?) with AoS. I like the look of the models, I like the lore and I think the rules are great especially with the release of "The General's Handbook". I understand a lot of the criticisms that fans of Warhammer Fantasy have levied against AoS. But, and I hate to say it, some of the reasons why they dislike it are the reasons why I like it. Its simplified, its easy as hell to get into, but can be as advanced as you want it to be and yes, it does feel like Space Marines in a fantasy setting and I like that.

[@ketilkn]

Then what?

[@tabletopminions]

+eyeh8u1 I totally agree, and I'm glad you got back into the hobby. Have fun, and thanks for watching!

[@geteavnroc2250]

This, so much this, and much the same here. Except, i won't be throwing down a ton of money into it, early next year, after i've gotten my crafting/painting setup re-established. I am seriously LOVING these new models that GW is putting out, and i can't wait to see how they expand it out, in the years to come!

[@ukaszc2620]

I am from post soviet Europe. When I was 12, I had a summer job. I worked a lot and I spent what I earned on 3 sets of core units (Silver Helms if I remember correctly). After that GW moved that unit from core to special. I painted them, but I never played any game and I never collected the whole army. I fully agree with your opinion. Now, when I am a bit older, maybe I could effort two Warhammer Fantasy armies to play a casual game with my growing son... instead of going on holiday together. With W:AoS it is much simpler to start and we will do that when he will be in the proper age.

[@tabletopminions]

I'm very glad you'll be teaching the next generation. Thanks for watching!

[@r.j.macready]

hey man, thanks so much for making this video. many great points and I've been enjoying the game this whole time I'm glad other people are at least checking it out.

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad you're enjoying it. Thanks for watching!

[@Dovahninja]

I bought the start collecting kit of Seraphon about a year ago and it's sat on my shelf collecting dust because after I bought it I realized I had no one to play it with. Until recently. My brother and a few friends never took an interest in Warhammer because of the absurd mount of money it took to make an army. With these start collecting series though, it seems to be drawing everyone in because of how affordable they are! I finally took it off the shelf, wiped off the dust and am getting ready to finally put them together after a year of purgatory. My brother has been looking at the start collecting series and he's having a hard time choosing between the Ironjawz Orks, Skelton Horde, and the Flesh-Eater Courts. Regardless though he's super excited that he can finally play without spending the huge amount of money it used to cost and so am I! I can't wait to finally play it!

[@SirFailsalot91]

While the scrapping of the Old World lore has really irked me, (loved reading Valkia the Bloody, but now finding Fantasy novels in-store is near impossible, so I'll have to start looking elsewhere) the game itself isn't so bad, especially since I now only need to spend money on one rulebook for a mixed army rather than each individual army book to make my own alliances - before AoS came about, I would need the Warriors of Chaos book, Daemons of Chaos book, Beastmen book and Skaven book in order to take just one or two units of each to aid my Daemons army, but now all I need is the Grand Alliance: Chaos book and I'm good to go... plus maybe the General's Handbook for points reference if my opponent wants to play points-based games, but the two of them together are worth the same as one army book was. I personally find the special rules for the likes of Sigvald the Magnificent and Marius Leitdorf entertaining, viewing your reflection when rolling or pretending to ride a horse to gain extra perks is pretty silly, but it at least allows people who don't mind such things to have a little more fun. But what I enjoyed the most in my first ever game is knowing that my Bloodthirster and ten Bloodletters took out a whole Stormcast group by themselves, with Big Red going down to 2 wounds and only four Lil' Reds getting squashed while the rest of my army sat on the other side of the board hoping for some action - not sure it would play out quite the same with in Fantasy, but with one of my friends now getting into AoS by collecting Stormcast and possibly Sylvaneth, I'm hoping to enjoy some narrative play sessions at some point with him, just to get creative with the game. Let the haters stay salty, it's rather common to hear the amount of disgust at the transition and be put off from something new from long-time players, but I like to see a form of fresh start with the game now and hopefully newcomers aren't as daunted by it as they would've been by Fantasy.

[@tabletopminions]

+Ponder von Lampgurgle Most people dislike change, even though it's the only constant in life. I'm glad you're enjoying the game. Thanks for watching!

[@ragelion]

I know is a month old comment but Valkia is back and part of the new khorne blood bound she appeared in a campaign book for AOS.