Age Of Sigmar Test Game

Steve and Cullen play a learning game of Warhammer Age of Sigmar, using the Warscrolls released for their armies.
After many games with out a sense of balance, Steve comes up with a simple point system for the Warscrolls.

[@kaibe5241]

That board/tabletop looks fucking phenomenal!!!!

[@Karhedron]

"We learned... that this game... doesn't work." Thank you guys :) So Old World Wars will remain? Some studio needs to keep 8th alive :p

[@vladnica4232]

willy tee This wasn't tha unbalanced, but the Griffon is just bad, and it casts a lot for the points they valued it at. If he added a unit of 10-15 Sword masters instead of that guy the game would have been a different tale.

[@paranoidude]

Vlad Nica It is that unbalanced. There is NO balance. Period. It's up to the players to balance the game for themselves, and if you don't think that people won't take advantage of there being no max model number for units, you don't know the kind of people that hang around at FLGS.

[@vladnica4232]

I do agree with you on that. The lack of points was something that sucks, and we did try to balance the units we had, with some thinking on our part. But the once we got the balance right, the games were fun, and the positioning of troops really did impact the outcome. Movement as well. The point was to get as many of your troops fighting as little of his troops you could squish in one turn.

[@scirrhia_kruden]

I don't think anyone will drop 8th. People might also take up AoS, but I don't see anyone transitioning to it.

[@vladnica4232]

Theres no reason to transition to it, its just a new game, for something that was getting less and less players. You can still play both versions.

[@SubscriberTano]

Age of Sigmar must be a really tough thing for MWG, because the base game is unplayable, but people still want to see the vanilla game and not a house ruled version. The only solution I can think of that would allow MWG to play the game using the vanilla rules, whilst keeping things balanced and playable, is to play with just the models in the starter set, and playing the official GW scenarios. That would mean that MWG are playing 100% vanilla rules, whilst having a more or less balanced game (assuming the GW boxed sets and scenarios are balanced). Really sucks that GW had to put you in this position MWG, wish you all the best!

[@eliasvonknorrhane1356]

SubscriberTano Why is the base game unplayable?

[@GeneralAdvance]

Elias Von Knorrhane The warscrolls as they are (whilst being actually a pretty good way to organise an army) are not balanced at all, it's perfectly possible to take 10 bloodthirsters vs 10 units of skaven clan rats, that game only goes one way The idea of getting rid of the bases is also just really really bad, it just ends up creating a mess

[@eliasvonknorrhane1356]

AoS is proof that GW is lazy.

[@dylanpond2279]

SubscriberTano *shrugs* Ive been playing fine

[@12345langham]

SubscriberTano Played a fair few games with the starter set and the Warscrolls for pre-AoS armies. I would say that the latter are just in place until Gdubs can give them proper rules/phae them out or write scenarios for them. GW have a LOT of scenarios in the works. Hundreds!

[@francesboy2]

You know, I always scoffed at the idea of Warhammer fantasy, being a 40k guy I've always just appreciated the grim dark setting and all of the accompanying books and video games. I recently played total war: warhammer... and it's now ranked as one of my favourite games of all time. So I thought, fuck me, I've been missing out on so much! So upon looking to see how I could get into Warhammer fantasy tabletop, I find that it's been nuked into the ground and... this is in it's place? I appreciate that GW weren't making the money that 40k brings, I appreciate that Warhammer fantasy had a niche playerbase, but THIS was not how to fix the issue, the fix was to license games to competent developers so retards like myself would be willing to splash out on the models like they did with 40k. What an absolute shame, I've fallen in love with a universe that no longer exists :(. I was too late.

[@sclarke6969]

I found fantasy after playing the shadow of the horned rat for the PC. I too have fallen in love with it again after playing total war only to discover this had happened :(

[@Pottan23]

Yeah this is the first time I checked in on the Warhammer universe since I stopped playing some 15 years ago. This is what I come back to? I need a drink, my childhood is gone

[@ianthrockmorton9167]

Totally wrong, check out their August review of the new rulebook that came out....

[@francesboy2]

That review didn't exist when I made that comment.

[@ianthrockmorton9167]

I was responding to Vivalaliberty, sry for not being more clear.

[@Fixxer81]

You didn't play AoS here. Can I see how does it look as a vanilla game, please?

[@ziggy78eog]

I would like to see a game being played with the unmodified rule set, just to see how unplayable it is. It is one thing to just say, "We totally did this off camera, and it suck, take out word for it.", and actually showing it, so that we can see for ourselves.

[@ziggy78eog]

***** The one thing I was not crazy about was the fact that people can place unit after unit onto the Table with no limitations; that is a HUGE balancing issue. People who can afford lots of Monstrous Creatures, or Multi-wound models, are just going to have an unfair advantage. You were also right about Calvary. It looks like this Edition of Fantasy is all about getting Units into Assault really fast; so if somebody has a lot of Units on the Table, that are heavy in Assault (like Calvary), that person is going to wipe the table.

[@Dimes607]

ziggy78eog there are batreps out there like that. "Realms of Conflict - Age of Sigmar" is RAW

[@warmandcozy9779]

ziggy78eog if they do it for 40k all you will see is armies of flyers or wraiths.

[@MrLutharr]

Blowin Dro Bro no what i think you will see is the demise of GW.

[@Dimes607]

MrLutharr I don't think it will be the demise. I think we will see a quick spike in sales because of people wanting to get the models before they are gone forever. And then you will see the sales drop again. This will cause GW to refocus it's business model. If they don't then they continue down the same path for the past 15 years and sell the IP for profit and close doors.

[@BByrnes]

In my honest opinion, putting a "balance" to this SOA game is like putting makup on a pig. Even with points you still have the Screaming Bell-Fateweaver combo, and if you start taking out rules on Bases/Models, Special Rules, Points, you are not playing SOA you are playing Fantasy 8.5.

[@porcu12345]

brandon byrnes GW have said themselves the Bell-Fateweaver combo is fully intended but that if anyone abuses it they will quickly find nobody wants to play them anymore so it's a non-issue. If anyone actually uses that stupid combo regularly, nobody will play him and he will be forced to change his list. The problem fixes itself. In tournament settings it's even more of a non-issue because they will comp the rules like they did for every other fantasy edition.

[@BByrnes]

Hawken Valhalla I understand the logic, but why should we have to just deal with their rules and have it be ok? GW took a very " Here, take your Medicine, its good for you" mentality with these rules. Why would they have written something broken and then just expect it to be fixed by the people buying their mini's. In my shoes, I play a lot of 40k and was thinking about getting into fantasy at the AOS and honestly I don't want to play a game where the company backing it doesn't even take it seriously.

[@souledgar]

Hawken Valhalla Except a tournament has to come up with their own way to balance lists from the ground up. Before, they can use the majority of the rules and just have to say "you can't bring this". Now, they have to figure out the costing of every single unit in the game. If I were a tournament organizer, I'll just simply decide its not worth my time and focus on another product, OR, declare players can only use the starter box list or any other fix-list scenario they eventually release.

[@defranwren5153]

souledgar Yea how the fuck are tournaments supposed to be done THERE IS NO POINTS and you got to make all these rules its fucking ridiculous

[@Unahim]

brandon byrnes During conventions, they've said that the old model rules are not meant to be serious, but just for celebrations. The bell-fatezeaver they say is no problem to them, the current game is not serious, do what you want, estrange all your opponents with the combo if you want.

[@nickcarnabucci8130]

Best "balance" system I've seen so far. I will be trying this way. Thanks for the great video!

[@nachristen]

Great looking terrain and armies. The points system sounds interesting, too. Thanks for the battle report!

[@jamisonmunn9215]

Once I saw you adding point values, it reminded me of this cool game I used to play.

[@OldSaltySean1]

Most of our games so far have been really close. Mind you they were played between friends and we we're generally limiting ourselves a tad, but we had a ton of fun in some close games. This system has problems, but it's not the end of the world the internet thinks it is, there's a lot of potential here and people need to give it a chance.

[@Raxapheon]

Old Salty Sean People just like to complaint so they can feel they are on the banwagon with someone else, people bitch and moan for everything, specially on the internet, a year form now they will be playing and no one will give a flying fuck about the old rules, the lore is a separated issue but..

[@antilogic01]

Raxapheon Well that's not entirely fair. Our games have all been miserable, and we're just going to keep playing 8th like we have for awhile. I understand some people might have seen and done everything with those rules and want to move on, but we still enjoy them. At what point should we stop trying to find the fun in these new rules and just have fun with the old, you know?

[@Raxapheon]

Shao Kahn But the "4 page rulebook" is not intended to be the final product, at all, that is intended to be a demo... , with that in mind I just play it , just as it was a complete new IP or game, it is hard, I know !!,(15 years ork player here) but this situation happens always,ALWAYS, cheers!

[@TheMorphyum]

Raxapheon The 4 page rulebook is the final rulebook had a talk with a GW employe earlier the week and he was certain, that this is the whole rules. Might give some scenarios and such but the rules are done.

[@mrbluelw88]

Raxapheon Is that similar to how no matter the context or argument, some people feel the need to unnecessarily claim without evidence anecdotal or otherwise that everyone who has an opposing opinion is bandwagoning so they can act like they're better just for accepting whatever change it is that happened?

[@GuiltyDragon]

I started Age of Sigmar at the start of 3rd edition and this popped up on my feed one day. I love the game in 2023 but I'm fascinated about its weird experimental early days. Great video.

[@Lannes03]

Really am Impressed by your Gaming Table and Armies) but more than that I am Impressed by your position on this game and your efforts bring the community what they are clamoring for (points/houserules). Great Job Guys Please Keep it UP! *raises a Chalice* ; ) Charge!!!!

[@samueldavis8686]

Just thought I'd say I really like the point system you worked/found out, seemed to work well

[@ryaneasterling1556]

This actually looked fun, more reports like this could be good, at least better then the vanilla game I think

[@EamonBurke]

1:30 fun fact: Nope! Cavalry was there to run folks down after the infantry got tired, capture prisoners, etc. The cavalry showing up means that, as an exhausted pikeman, your job is almost done.

[@MsNosis]

Five instanses why one could bring basic clanrats instead of stormvermin, even when the "cost" the same: 1- because since your opponent's selection of miniatures makes for a weaker army, you feel it makes for a better game for both of you if you pick clanrats instead of the stronger choices. 2- because you think it fits more within the story you made up for the battle 3- because you don't own any stormvermin miniatures. 4- because you like the idea of your army to be hordes of weaker troops 5- because the clanrats have special rules that makes them not necessarily weaker than stormvermin, just different.

[@TheWarmasterGuilliman]

MsNosis well said my friend

[@thezoned101]

So 5 non-competitive fluff answers. Game wise, clan rats are just straight up worse, there's no arguing that. Worse is different, I suppose....

[@kkirT]

thezoned101 You can't really play this competitively yet. It's like if the Super Bowl had no restriction on team size or anything. This is a pick-up and play, casual, fluff-friendly game. Fully understand that all the world champion Warhammer players who made a living on the pro circuit doesn't approve.

[@09philj]

Trikk It's the opposite of pick up and play. It requires much more prior prep than 40k or Oldhammer to make a fun, balanced game.

[@kkirT]

Cracked Rearview Oldhammer never had a balanced game. Are you willing to bet money that a 2400 pts Daemons of Chaos list will lose to a 2400 pts Wood Elf list? Look at any discussion forum for Warhammer, about half the posts are discussions on which army book is best and feedback on army lists. AoS you buy a starter box and then you play and it's balanced = pick up and play

[@Ottuln]

A huge misconception of historical cavalry use. I blame movies.

[@manuellaslo1282]

Wreqt you are right. in reality, cav. had no chance against big infantry-formations. they charged in, got stuck and got slaughtered if they would have attacked the infantry in the front. as the infantry started to move and fight in formation, cav started to have a real tough time. cav. was used for flanking and finishing up crumbling enemys or attacking weaker ones. they were used as hunters. but not for direkt attacks in the front or steam-rolling-tactics. they were quite too expensiv for that job. they were highly trained and equiped elite troops (like the diffent amount of spezial forces in our time) and were not build for such grindy jobs. the reason why cav. is realy good in AoS is, that your troops don`t useing formations any more. they are just a horde, move across the battle-field. at least this is my opinion of the game.

[@karakas9905]

manuel laslo Not true. They did charged large formations losing especially horses but the formation was destroyed, infantry scattered and often running away.

[@barthoving2053]

manuel laslo Also depends of the weapons and armor. The heavy shock cavalry like knights with heavy lances or kataphracts would still crush tight infantry bodies without long pole-weapons. The lances would just pierce multiple ranks or throw the first rank back in the second, giving the riders an opportunity to get out and get fresh lances or momentum for another charge.

[@Ottuln]

Bart Hoving The getting out is the part that people don't seem to understand.

[@barthoving2053]

With long lances the riders do not have to get in if they see the infantry does not break. But it's all about discipline on both sides.

[@Onionsred]

Love your take on the point system. I guess we'll try it out!

[@michaelkraemer5846]

Definitely going to use your points method to play this game. Thank you MWG!

[@CatharticWeek]

I like your metric for working out points. It's the most serviceable system I've heard so far...

[@patgray5402]

As long as a few kinks are worked out (points cost, etc) I am actually thrilled with the new direction! I especially love that formations are not in perfect squares anymore. This opens the door to so much tactical flexibility.

[@ExBruinsFan]

I was waiting to see the ogres and elf cavalry clash, yeah, it was fun to watch. Your points system seems to have I proved the game a lot. I don't generally watch game footage, but I did enjoy this.

[@Sazurius]

the balancing seems quite good for a first impression, good job steve

[@aris67simos]

This was confirmed by spikeybits to be coming from Games Workshop. "Hope your day is going well. Here`s a cool, quick way to organize a balanced battle in Age of Sigmar for your customers who feel that they need something (...lost some words here) this to be successful. Let me know if you have any questions. Here is an example that can easily be adjusted to suit the needs of any event. 1-12 warscrolls 1-2 Hero warscrolls 0-2 Monster warscrolls No single warscroll may contain more than x wounds (i.e. 24) Heroes may not be duplicated All other warscrolls may only be duplicated once"

[@fredinator8]

Aris S thats bullshit. GW didnt say that or they are really retarded, since ungors, for example, get advantages when they have 30 or more models, therefore more than 24. He can tell his source to fuck himself.

[@Molda22]

So guys, for years i always wanted to start playing warhammer fantasy but i never quite really get to it. But now i really started to be very interested in it, i watched few games i watched some tutorials and obviously i started checking on what rulesets are there etc and i found about this "restart" and complete change of rules with this Age of Sigmar thing and from what i've heard and read it completely put me off. Is it doomed? Or is there a way to normaly get all the rulesbooks, miniatures, armybooks etc for some kind of older rulesets and buy them and play them without even worrying about Age of Sigmar? Because out of curiosity i peeked into few or our local fantasy shops that focus on wargames and card games etc and all i see is Age of Sigmar and nothing else to buy. Thanks

[@AcceptTheNull]

Remember when GW went on crusade to remove any player made rules because GW was terrified they were stealing their IP. Just goes to show how short sighted GW must be because they destroyed the IP they said the were protecting and then created rules that require so much player made rules to work. Welcome to the full circle, promise it won't happen to 40k...30k anyone?

[@cinderknight7297]

You know they actually supported fan rules in this game? As in, the current point system (and other things) is based in fan rules?

[@stefanthomas4868]

Hi guys. Just wanted to ask you something? I don't see the advantage of the 1 inch skirmish rule. If you ranked up like the old system you can get two ranks of attacks straight away even before you pile in. Plus there are no templates for war machines so that would not effect densely nit troops either. I fact it looks like a hindrance to movement. Wouldn't trays be better? Thoughts please??

[@mDaro]

Did a quick excel spreadsheet with your calculations. Gonna play Empire vs Orcs/Goblins today gonna try it. Can we please get a rundown of the buildings on your board? Seems a couple of us want them! Great video.

[@bretthill9324]

man that board looks amazing!

[@patticrissbaum1873]

I love you guys!!! Thank you for this!

[@leonardwisniewski3418]

Has anyone tried using 8th edition points with the new rules? If so, how balanced was it?

[@MrBombphoon]

Does anybody know what brand those buildings are?

[@tidings5215]

Tried out your points system. Made the game feel a lot more balanced overall, and allowed for list building which is half the fun anyways. My friends and I will probably tweak some points values, things like an additional cost if the model is a wizard, a decreased cost for bravery under 5, etc. All in all, thumbs up. You made the game better for us. :)

[@fogdance]

Thanks for posting good content! This video made me quite nostalgic; I played Fantasy when I was younger, and now after years without (and a shiny new total war game) went to see what was up. Oh man have things changed! I hope you continue to do justice to my memories in the future! A small suggestion: setting up your camera in a fixed position and sitting while speaking (not playing, necessarily) should greatly increase the quality of your videos! Consider this liked and subscribed.

[@fogdance]

And please, please use sound equipment!

[@fogdance]

And a dice box to roll in!

[@Lykyk]

And Steve, good job on the point costs, there can probably be slight tweaking to it, but I actually really like it.

[@CryingPanSFX]

let me tell you guys a story. I'm an avid tabletop player, hitting up 40k, pathfinder, dodeca system, dark heresy, D&D, etc. I like tabletop a lot. Specifically the warhammer duality. I have a standing force of space marines, tyranids, small forces of orks and eldar. I dig 40k a lot. I also come from an extremely financially disabled background, where lights and water were on by the month, food was a weekly issue, and there was zero household security. In recent years, I and my family have had an upshot of possibilities and for the first time in my life, we've had fun money to throw at things. July 1st, last year, I made the plunge and finally bought a couple of space marines, something I had been eying for 6 or 7 years. It was incredibly satisfying, and so I've jumped headlong into ttwargames in full to complement my love of rpg games. a few days ago, I had returned from work with a wad of cash (I work in drink services, making minimum wage + tip). I had been putting aside my tip money for a few weeks now, saving to make the jump into warhammer fantasy. I was tossing between high elves or wood elves. I was super excited, jumped on my computer, and checked my email, as I always do when I get home. I noticed the age of sigmar reveal email and balled out. I was very intrigued by this new kit, offering such a huge number of models and junk. A new faction! I was so hyped! I was already in the check out when I paused and thought I should do a little more research before I buy it. a quick Google search later completely sapped my excitement, as I read more and more diabolical things. The entire universe shredded to pieces and then gathered up and splashed with elmers glue. A motley ball, barely related to the original source information, coupled with absolute shit rules. I crumbled and raged and frothed from the mouth with anger, realizing that not only is this boxed set was a pile of shit disguised in a pretty box, but that my hope of ever getting THE warhammer fantasy experience was effectively gone. I was pissed. I still am. And out of desperation and spite, instead of buying in to this rubbish, I picked up a pair of M:TG starter sets for me and my friend. MAGIC. I never thought I'd have to stoop so low.... This game is hideous...

[@ioanjenkins4908]

Do saurus warriors then cost 30 points a model due to having 1 wound 1 attack from club/spear and 1 attack from jaws and shield and having a bravery of 10?

[@nova3k]

When charging you still must declare a charge target then roll. Not roll then pick a target. Overall I appreciate you guys giving this game a shot. I feel the biggest flaw is no balancing system at all. Once you get that figured out then the rest of the game is great. I just love how simple and fast it is. I played my first game today (Dwarfs vs WoC) and I loved it, and we used a wounds limit with 8e restrictions on those wounds (up to 50% heroes, min 25% core, up to 50% specials, and up to 25% rares). Not a perfect balancing system but it did force you to bring some core and not fill your list with power units for cheap. We do plan on trying your points system next game. I hope to see more AoS videos!

[@rappletek2955]

Also I dont know if anyone else pointed this out yet but its only wounds from the same source that need to be allocated to already wounded models... so at 19:09 for the doom wheel combat you didnt need to remove a model, and then didnt need to then take bravery -2 roll for battle shock (models removed in the turn)

[@adequatewargamers1241]

The points system I think is very well done from you guys, the only issue I have is my 20pt skeleton warriors....

[@GalbaKor]

Adequate Wargamers and 400 point per model skeleton chariots

[@Coteable]

Exactly what I thought when he said multiplied by bravery

[@paulstrickland2958]

Adequate Wargamers 20 pts per Saurus Warrior 60 pts per Saurus Cavalry Lizardmen have a high bravery and that system might not work so well for them

[@SoHappyToSeeYou]

What effect does this have on Sudden death? Does it make it nigh impossible to claim a sudden death?

[@TheWarmasterGuilliman]

from the few games ive played its clear that everything using the older models has to be narritive based and agreed almost unit to unit for each army (at the moment at least) i think there will be some sort of formation system in the pipeline but as of this moment in time to play everything has to be agreed for me. if you play on that basis it works fine, at least in the games ive played which i admit is only 4

[@stephenshulusky2940]

Lots of promise in your formula, I think. Very entertaining!

[@murrax7639]

I know this is REALLY late but. (coming from a vault member) You took a game, came in expecting it to be another EDITION for fantasy even though they clearly stated "THIS IS A NEW GAME" then you house ruled it and said "It sucked."

[@Fatblue246]

+ThePrussianViking even tho its a new game it was meant to be a tie to fantasy. meaning you were supposed to be able to use old armies in the game without having a problem. And also if you had watched the whole video they said they played it not house ruled the day before then played it with house rules and it balanced the game. Even if you dont use the old armies and you use the AoS armies it's still incredibly unbalanced. There is no excuse for publishing a shit game. If youre going to kill of a community at least have the courtesy of replacing it with a half decent game.

[@cosmicsoybean6419]

+ThePrussianViking Cool, bring an army '2500' list and ill bring 250 30 man units of elite spearmen, along with all the rare monsters, machines and mages I want! No, no points is a fucking retarded thing to do, regardless if its a continuation of a previous game or not.

[@DKDunk]

Good job on figuring out points! Thanks

[@Zennofobic]

man I'm having a Mayor of Boganville (can't remember the town haha) flashback. Never played the tabletop but I have played Dark Omen (probably one of my favorite PC games of all time) and I'm just picturing undead rising up out of the ground. Is there a Commander Bernhardt figurine? Never ran across anything on the tabletop that had any of the DO elements in it except for the vampire count.

[@jademerrydown2943]

So to make it work you had to change it completely, not a good sign.

[@Miniac]

Jade Merrydown I think your definition of the word "completely" may be a little off.

[@mrbluelw88]

SDubist Inventing a point system where there is none. You're right, that sounds like a minor change. You may actually have brain damage.

[@Miniac]

mrbluelw88 Where did I say it was a minor change?

[@Miniac]

Yeah, it's important in a strictly textural world to actually say what you mean instead of hyperbolic.

[@Miniac]

You're so upset. Calm down, man.

[@specialj99]

So your bolt thrower can put 12 shots through your own units? Also, if cavalry is so scary, then Cold Ones must be crazy scary. There is just no way this has gone through any real playtesting from what I've seen so far. So...more Old World Wars then?

[@ChrisJones-vf8dy]

Just watching this now, but did they play scenarios during the off camera play as AOS is designed for or just pitched battles? Also It seems this game is made more for a casual play a scenario/narrative game for fun where you don't always just take all the best units for your army but play so both can have fun. Whether this will make a successful game is debatable.

[@LimmBurger]

I was doing your points cost thing for some models and I ran into a bunch of problems with small units. Like Skeleton Warriors would be 20 points a model.

[@nicpetersen457]

when did john goodman start working for miniwargaming

[@colonel-commissaribramgaun2444]

these guys get my smympathy for trying to find a way to make age of sigmar to work.

[@wadehoag1221]

I thought the points system is awesome and brought a lot of balance to a broken system. Good job guys

[@secretace]

I haven't played AoS but why would they get rid of point total for units???

[@jsgdk]

To make people buy more models, money for more models = win if you just follow the rules, but people will just make their own point systems.

[@CacklingAntagonist]

On a side note I love the new intro 'We play and call it work'

[@iamnz3612]

The system has potential, definitely. I'll test it out.

[@arsedoctor]

Why does the bell need the rats to move. It says that it moves extra inches for the number of skaven near it. So it has a base movement according to how many wounds it has taken, and then add movement depending on how many rats are pushing it.

[@JasanQuinn]

The more I see about Age of Sigmar, the more I get the distinct impression the phrase "I can't be fucking arsed!" was yelled across the design room.

[@edwardjhanrattyjr143]

Going to have to try out your modified rules for myself, looks good. As far as the unmodified rules I have to say I really enjoy them. I think AoS is great. Everyone mentions the unbalanced part, but for casual games all you have to do is talk to your opponent and figure out what works for you both to make it balanced. The simplicity has also opened up the world of Warhammer to my wife and kids who thought it was too intimidating to learn 8th Edition. I'm happy and my family enjoys another game together.

[@SymbioteSeeker]

From watching this video, i believe doing the point system you guys have made works. I tried it on my ogre kingdoms army this works W + A x B= Thank you.

[@mandor7005]

Actually the formula is : (W + A)*B -just not to confuse ;)

[@sendoprey]

In regards to whether or not war machines and monsters was worth the X2, due to their number of attacks diminishing as they are weakened, it really wouldn't matter as long as both sides applied unit caps with the same point logic.

[@spudsgaming7271]

seems like a smart way of allocating points :)

[@raiden6383]

Just a thought could you use the bravery of the models to help balance things instead of the wounds?

[@set2500]

For at 1:35, cavalry was never made to make a frontal charge cuz horses are scared of almost anything. They used them to flank cand cut down fleeing troops.

[@LCliffhanger]

yes that's what cavalry was like but they had counters like stakes or guns to shoot them with and so on

[@stephenshulusky2940]

As someone finally building up his skaven army, I appreciate an AoS game showing them off. I'm just starting to watch, and interested to see how you chose to balance things (despite the complaints of others).

[@urzathehappy72]

thx for comin up with a point systen to try to fix this broken game

[@Zibit21]

The MWG AoS point system doesn't work for new units (Stormcast Eternals and Khorne army)

[@little_isalina]

I've seen attempts to assign point values similar to what you have done. but dividing the result by the Save i believe. I haven't had the energy to look at the warscrolls long enough to figure out what system is a good one. I'll just hope GW will come out with an actual functional ruleset in the near future, and if that doesn't happen, I guess I can still do what that one guy did and set fire to my entire Warhammer Fantasy army.

[@alentejano22ptg]

I did like your points system, but how could I apply it to lord Kroak? He doesn't have wounds...

[@jpowers84]

Thanks for the video. This helps me decide on whether to get game or not. Off topic question. Did you build that table or buy it?

[@pyromstr]

I find a good way to see how the game works with a good army balance is to use one of the "pre build" armys the scrolls give you and add stuff from there. kind of like how many card games work. Plus with this game I have a tonne of fun even without winning, I saw plenty of space for strategy with an army I had, i just needed a few extra models. after a few games your army just kind of rounds off and becomes a good balanced force.

[@09philj]

If you come up with a workable set of modifications and additions to the rules, will you release them online?

[@ArthurBugorski]

I like how the point system isn't arbitrary but calculated. The formula might need tweaking, but I like the idea that the point system is transparent instead of arbitrary.

[@alfredoblancopuente1985]

I love warhammer, and I was looking forward to play this "new edition", but after watching two games and playing one myself I think I will keep playing 8th, can't see any reason to test it further

[@MrDarkclaw22]

So I played Age of Sigmar yesterday for the first time and actually enjoyed it, it seems aimed more at pure enjoyment of the game and I kinda like that. I realize that people who have played for years will most likely hate the new system but that's because people hate large scale change like that, if I was playing fantasy for over 5 years I would be annoyed too but you don't have to play AoS I prefer it and how streamlined it is, I like how I can pretty much chose which models I like the most from any faction and make them my army then get the rules for free which is really strange coming from GW. To me AoS is definitely for causal gamers but the tournament scene isn't completely dead, apparently in Germany they managed to find a magic formula for determining points, but even that wont be perfect, that could be why AoS doesn't use a point system, because someone will find a flaw and people disagree on how much something should cost no matter how much GW raises or lowers the price. The only way to get the prices the players find fair is if each little community made their own point system. This is what I think AoS is going for, the players decide what they think is a fair fight. I know this has its own problems but between a group of friends it shouldn't be that hard unless your friends a hyper competitive prick in which case they should play 8th edition because that's more competitive. Lets remember GW never intended for their games to be used in a competitive scene where people spam the better units. I mean I'm sure someone will create a points system the majority can agree with which will lead to every tournament using it but I don't understand the whole "Games Workshop has ruined my army that took 10+ years to build" because you can use old models and the bases mean fuck all now you measure from the model and all weapons including melee have a range to it and the new combat system has tactics to it, just different ones from before. people are upset but remember AoS is supposed to attract new people into a dieing system, even with the end times Fantasy was slowly dieing and if AoS hadn't came along and a 9th edition came out then fantasy would more than likely been heading for the chopping block. At least in AoS you can still use the old models with official rules instead of playing a now dead game.

[@monsterhobbiesonlinestore]

I do love your buildings though!

[@minichixx]

can i get explaination on how to use a D3 damage on my warscroll

[@Mr_Morazzles]

MiniChixx Morissette roll for hits, then wounds like normal. Then roll a 3 sided die to determine damage

[@shadowtheory7500]

Okay guys, I just talked with GW about this game, and while it isn't warhammer anymore it is better in my opinion. I have played this game for almost 8 years, and while the nostalgia of the change hurts, it isn't as bad as it might seem, especially with removing the min-maxing. They are making the game more new-player friendly. You don't always have to do a "wipe out my force before I wipe out yours" battle. The way it is designed is so that while you CAN do that, you could have your friend who just started only need to survive for 6 rounds before you wipe out his force. If one of his guys live then he wins. It really isn't as bad as you might think, and I for one say we give this a chance. I am hopeful that this will become the great game I think it is.

[@MadrealmMatt]

Now that all this time has passed... I'm still enjoying AoS. I still play RAW. No points. I haven't had as many one sided games with AoS RAW as I have in 40k, I think Sudden Death is ignored by people too much.

[@vOddy75]

But isn't it still pay to win if you buy enough units?

[@cinderknight7297]

Considering it has points? Also, yeah, go and try to play 2000+ models in a time limit game.

[@Menape]

Isnt this game supposed to play on a alot larger scale map with a lot more troops in each regiment? correct me if im wrong but it seems like games work shop is trying to make fantisy more like the total war game so maybe total war players who buy warhammer total war to get interested in the board game also?

[@PoolShedGames]

I still honestly think this game really can't be judged until more units/armies are released that were designed with the rules set in mind. I feel like the warscrolls were put out to keep older players happy perhaps without the most effort put into them and I think older players with a heavy investment in warhammer have every right to be pissed off. However I honestly feel this games needs to be looked at as something totally new. Now in a few months if we have releases/armies out that are designed for this game and it still is rubbish I'll eat my hat. But I just feel until that time we can't really judge Age of Sigmar fairly.

[@rushwingate]

Used your point system for a Bretonian vs Skaven game, 1500 points. At that point limit it was a fairly big game. Game was very close, with Bretonians winning with only 10 models left on the table. Very fun. Still need tweaking, but very fun.

[@newhoped]

The game is a mess. Summoning and shooting are broken and game has next to no tactics and more often than not decided on a dice roll rather than what you actually did. I can see the system been ok with pre-set scenarios, but other than that can't see people playing AOS much after the newness factor is gone.

[@BByrnes]

newhoped Shooting and summoning is powerful and don't get me wrong are not balanced, but compared to the Screaming Bell/Fateweaver combo they are nothing. You can instantly win turn 1 100% of the time no matter what is happening. Just use the fateweaver's one use ability to change the result of the bell's 2d6 to 13 automatically winning the game. BECAUSE... Reasons. There is no logic from GW as to why there is a "Win the game" result for anything.

[@newhoped]

brandon byrnes The game is just a mess, and designed for kids for the oh look I've got shiny new thing crowd. In one of test games we took one unit of what we thought would harmless Gnoblars oh how wrong we where, +2 attacks if the unit was over 30 models which ment they had 105 shooting attacks then 105 attack in melee. Another was a Herald of tzeentch who could bacically summon another herald and the turn after than those 2 could summon another 2 heralds....

[@newhoped]

Corona Dark No GW said it works they just said don't expect anybody to play you again if you use it.

[@richardscott6896]

Corona Dark GamesWorkshop don't have an official Twitter

[@yoashbarak373]

Richard Scott Don't know about that, but in any case it CANT work, the fact you can change the result of a charge to a result of your choosing does not mean you can pick a result that cannot actually happen, unless you are claiming karios can do 100000000 wounds n his D6 gift of change wounds. Damn rule lawyers trying to push trough things a child can see are idiotic will always exist, but it does not mean anyone needs to listen to their nonsense. AoS got enough to complain about without making up more stuff.

[@eduardoscott313]

i think you guys are on the right path if you can tweak up the points and some other silly rules maybe you could luch the warscrolls with the point attached, is a massive undertanking but weee need to start somewhere.

[@gh0s7walk3r]

an alternative balancing method is something like: max 12 warscrolls, 2 hero's max, 1 hero min, 2 monsters max.

[@Bluecloudandrew]

Play it like it's written. Yes, you can, you have, and it does work. Thanks.

[@thewoundedwarg3254]

The game is purely narrative, not met to be competative

[@thewoundedwarg3254]

Game workshop stated that the game was purely narrative, stick to 8th if you want to play competative. You build your army based on story.

[@anthonyanderberg2371]

I like the number crunch you all did. Deployment zone Using model size in a physical space may allow the monsters and machines to be held in check. I think you hit this on the head and did what the rules say, you are suppose to make it balanced so just figure out how you want to and keep tweaking like you plan. As for tournaments I think you just have to give out the rules in advance and then it isn't house rules anymore. I like that you can just be lazy and drop some models on the table and run into each other. Next game make a list using a calculation like you made. Another game limit to unit types. This first post definately gave an example of how two people are suppose to balance the game before you play. Thanks for the batrep

[@smoothgarak9537]

Waiting on "hundreds" of scenarios apparently, that will show unit requirements. I definitely think that the rules were intended for the models in the starter box which look to be fairly balanced, and with the "living document" (see mobile app) new scenarios will be introduced for the other armies. I am guessing it will be a force construction using sections from 40k (1 HQ, 2 Elites, 4 Infantry etc etc but using keywords). I was hoping for a continuation of the LOTR rules, which were simple and solid, but i guess not.

[@TheRomanRuler]

What i want is Fantasy Battles units and lore. I hate many Age of Sigmar units and lore. As for rules, i have no preference as i have never played tabletop, but i think future is in Age of Sigmar, it just needs to be updated a lot. Once we have Fantasy battle units and lore with great rules (Age of Sigmar or something else, i don`t care), i can get into tabletop. But at the moment i will stick to PC game Total War Warhammer. Age of Sigmar also seems to have smaller battles, which i don`t like, so maybe 9th age version of WHFB is best after all, but focus should be on making it more new player friendly.

[@fleshhunter8703]

The Rules need to be improved and not be 'Bring All of your models'

[@partyp3opl393]

Yeah, and Nagash seems OP as fuck. I'm new to this, playing Undead.

[@leonR226]

just my 2 cents on the point cost. How would you balance Sisters of Slaugther versus Witch Elves? The cost is exactly the same 21 per model, however isnt it unbalanced with the fact that a SoS has 4+ save in combat and Witch Elf has none?

[@leonR226]

Leon Römer oh, and what are you going to do about magic ?

[@zanntos83]

That Point Cost system seems brilliant to me for a solid house rule to balance things to have fun and get use out of 'weaker' units. Maybe account for Armor Saves with (Wound + Attack + (4 - Save)) x Bravery, so you get a discount for armor worse that 4+ and more expensive for better than 4+ But this strikes me as a fantastic way to re-balance larger scale games, while not losing the Skirmish Scale appeal for new players.

[@BjornFriborg]

That Skaven player sure knows how to roll! :D

[@sageortegascott3322]

I liked your game style! You should be the guy in charge of Games Workshop.

[@Shad0wz101]

I have to say that points cost system seems very promising

[@erasmusburger2132]

What does your point system do for wizards? They don't usually have many hits, but are powerful, so x3 maybe?

[@ydin9]

@miniwargaming Steve, please put out some "by the book" games for comparison. Also I'm getting a feel that AoS is aimed at smaller unit counts, is there any difference between 600 or 1500 point games or is it still a mess?

[@troyrubins]

What battle mat is that? I'd love to get a similar one :)