Ahmadi Muslims Debate Sharia Law with One Law for All (Maryam Namazie) at UCL

[@MsSmamin]

I'm a Sunni and I recognize the Ahmadiya Muslims and all other sects of Islam. I hate sectarianism. We are all one and the same

[@iamborat100]

I applaud the Ahmadiyya community for having this discussion. Sadly, some muslim communities have shut down debates on the subject of Sharia and other aspects of Islam.

[@amixofeverything]

I wish all thoughts of Islam were like the Ahmadiya. Their two speakers here were quite pleasant people.

[@SLatif01]

Very good debate. It is worth to listen whole debate. Ahmadiyya Muslim Community's members explained the Sharia Law with Quran, Sunnah and Hadith. Well done.

[@MKAUK]

Smoking is not unlawful according to Sharia...if in Malaysia smoking is outlawed due to Sharia law then it just goes to show how much of a misunderstanding of Sharia law there is, and why it cannot be enforced

[@kohedunn]

The Muslim gentleman seems to be very nice. But , I am confused. Why does Islam and the Sharia seem to have so many variations between Muslims in general ? The stoning ,.. the Lashings,... the Beheadings ,..... Why are these things being done ? What readers of the Koran are getting it all wrong , and why ? Maryam was a Muslim. She speaks the truth. Something is wrong here ..... what and which is it ??? Perhaps a secular court IS the answer . The laws of Britain cannot be misused , they have nothing to do with Sharia , or Prophets .

[@orlando098]

anne dunn Also, there are many sects of Islam and Ahmadiya is known to be one of the most peaceful. But many other Muslims don't even consider them Muslim because they have an extra prophet who's not recognised in mainstream Islam.

[@dusty8512]

It is unfair to judge someone from the 7th century by today's standards. However it is disgusting to say that we today should live by the virtues of the 7th century.

[@humawaseem9323]

it seems to me that after learning the true concept of sharia by Jonathan and ayyaz that they would be more inclined to work towards making sure that it is practice the way it was meant to be, then abolishing it completely. That would be easier to accomplish with positive results for everyone.

[@getshijan]

UK has its own law and regulations. How dare Muslims demand to have their special laws. It is unacceptable. Please people who does not want to live under British law they can leave the country and go live in country where there is Sharia in place.

[@dusty8512]

if the book is divine why can it be understood so many different ways? why are there so many different schools of the religion.

[@Muhammad-Ali-Ahmad]

we all know which 2 people disliked this video lol but seriously excellent job defending my fellow Khuddam!

[@MKAUK]

@theologisticity; thankyou for your comment; you have just proved the truth of Ahmadiyyat by saying that All Islamic countries persecute it and deny its right to express their faith. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said that the Ummah would split into 72 sects and the 73rd a Jammah would be heavenly, but the 72 hell-bound. Tell me if 72 sects are united in condemning Ahmadiyyat; then who is correct the 72 sects or the word of the Holy Prophet (pbuh).

[@janmorrissy3498]

I've watched this twice. A very interesting debate.

[@MKAUK]

so daughters being buried alive, step-mothers being inherited by their step-sons, no education, no inheritance rights, no limits on the number of wives, women treated like cattle etc etc...do you think these practices respected women's rights? These were all practices abolished with the advent of Islam...citing Khadija as an isolated case is sheer distortion of history, examples of such women is found in almost every culture of history...doesnt mean that women's rights were established

[@AsifaZia]

Very good debate, it was really good to listen to the whole thing, Congratulations to the Ahmadiyya team, that was very well done.

[@MKAUK]

Isn't that what we are doing?

[@MKAUK]

Hi Anne, I think that was the point that was missed in the debate. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes is that Islam does not teach that Religion should interfere in the state

[@MKAUK]

We Ahmadis are Muslims and represent the true Islam as prohecied by the Holy Prophet (pbuh). The 1000 years you refer to were referred to in Hadith as the night that would engulf Islam; the first 3 centuries after our beloved master the Holy Prophet(pbuh) was the light, and then the days of darkness came just as prohecied by the Holy Prophet (pbuh). As prophecied by him the darkness would be dispelled by the Messiah, the Messiah came just as foretold and his name is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as).

[@khyberpashtana91]

JazakAllah so much for taking the time to share these wonderful efforts and information so enriching to be able to participate by listening Alhamdullilah

[@didemakpinar1154]

I must say British college students take their debates seriously, protocoles and everything..

[@mubiruzaid9753]

Wow this is very wonderful thank you for organising guys

[@MKAUK]

We Ahmadi Muslims believe Hadith of Holy Prophet (pbuh) which are in agreement with the Holy Quran and Sunnah (practice). Many Ahadith are misrepresentations of the words and practice of the Holy Prophet (pbuh). The Muslim Ummah was safeguarded from falling into error of the previous peoples by being given the guiding Light of the Holy Quran, which was promised to be safeguarded, unfortunately the Muslims have turned their back on this Perfect book and as a consequence we see the state today.

[@MKAUK]

I think the anger that can be seen in your reply answers your own question. We try to be decent and a lot of those who attack Islam are aggresive and often lose their cool. Sharia Law is not bad...but is open to interpretation and should not be imposed on those who are not Muslim...what's so complicated about that?...In terms of application which followers of religion have applied their own teachings: WW1, WW2, Nagasaki, Hiroshima...caused by Christian Nations - were they following religion?

[@Irfanrabbani]

Great event. Can we please have more such events?

[@mengugreg]

Actions speak louder then words. They don"t need to convince westerners what Shariah is and is not. They need to convince Muslims.

[@atiyaszahmad]

An eye-opening debate! It is time for our non-Ahmadi brothers to appreciate that the Ahmadees have been in the forefront to defend Islam in an absoultely civilized way - and not through violent agitations and protests. As regards, who is Muslim, and who is not; let this be left to Allah, as no Mullahs on the earth in competent to abrogate to themselves the right to deliver judgement on the beliefs of others.

[@nelofar601]

the debate is truly inspiring ..........it gives a clear picture for others that ahmadiyyat is the true islam

[@gameboy929]

one of the best debates i had ever seen bringing the true colors of Islam & the true teachings of our beloved prophet Muhammed PBUH defeating the ideology of communism & atheism in the light of true religious teachings.may ALLAH bless the khuddam of ahmadiyya who r endeavoured in this service to humanity....AHMADIYYAT ZINDABAD....

[@malikirfan555]

The result of the debate is "Ahmadiyyat ,the true Islam " The ladies are giving examples of those Islamic states where the true shape of Islam has been destroyed thats why Allah has sent the promised Missah there..

[@MKAUK]

Hi Chrissy, thanks for your comment; not sure which comment you were referring too...as thread is pretty long. I think what's interesting about the debate as our boys are using source material i.e. the Holy Quran and traditions of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)...and yet the other side of the debate is just using examples of the people of the day. Chrissy, you can examine yourself whether Islam is what the Holy Prophet (pbuh) practiced or what the present day Muslims practice.

[@deeliciousplum]

Thanks for sharing this. I would highly recommend this debate as a means for exploring the diversity of viewpoints on such a pressing topic.

[@ladida8944]

Speaking as an atheist I have to say that I was not impressed by the muslim speakers. They actually confirmed a lot of notions I have about Islam. One of them being that Islam is misogynistic: Saying that Islam will protect "the weak" and immidiately afterwards describe how women are "like glass" does not sound very equal to my ears. Actually it sounds rather primitive to claim that women need their finances administrated by men and generally get "taken care of" by the same.

[@dedianwar128]

i am crying while listening the ahmadiyya man is explainating his thought. alhamdulillah i am member of ahmadiyya

[@cyronader]

It always comes down to "no, my interpretation is right and everyone else is wrong!" This is why we have Protestants vs Catholics....why we have Shia't vs Sunni. It's clear that the Ahamdi group seem to have the correct interpretation of Islam where as the other 1 billion muslims in the word do not........

[@MKAUK]

@Apes2man; I think the crux of the issue in this debate was that the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community was using the teachings of the Holy Quran and practice of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) to demonstrate the true teachings of Islam. Whereas Maryam Namazie was using the example of so-called 'Muslim' countries, countries which do not follow the teachings of the Holy Quran or practice of the Holy Prophet(pbuh).

[@stumbling]

Do you really have to say "Peace be upon him", or, "May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him", every time you say Muhammed or "The Prophet"? It's absurdly pretentious.

[@MKAUK]

CowLunch We say "Peace be upon him" after every Prophet, including Jesus, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Confucious, Buddha (Peace be upon them all), etc.etc According to Islam every people were sent a Messenger and as a Muslim we have to believe in all of them

[@MKAUK]

yes we believe in Zoroaster, Confucious and Buddha (peace be upon them all) as Messengers and Prophets of God. And yes we do send peace on all of them, as we do on Jesus (peace be upon him). We believe God sent a Messenger everywhere in the world; the Holy Prophet taught 124,000 messengers were sent...you can find out more about our community on the website alislam.org

[@MKAUK]

thanks for your comments...there's an interesting book on this subject; please check the book Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and truth you can download it free from alislam.org website...kind regards

[@MKAUK]

Hi Majid, thanks for this 'imaginative' comment. We are Muslims and belong to Islam. Thanks anyway for trying to point out to me something I was unaware of...

[@JeanySullivan]

about the wife-beating... I could imagine that the original said something like "hit her, but not in a way that it can be seen on her body" which was then translated in "don't leave a mark". Which would basically mean, you can hit her, but not in her face or anywhere where others could see. Considering Mohammed's attitude towards women, it must mean he advised men to hide from others that they are abusive husbands.

[@MalihaJavaid]

can we have this up on MTA? if we havnt done so already.

[@MKAUK]

Hi Anne your comments are not being censored, sometimes it takes us a while to go through all our comments and respond. Also many people are using foul language so we have to take those out

[@voicesforpeace_nasir]

Up to 56:14, I have not heard a sentence from atheist’s side quoted a verse from Quran or Hadith. Let me listen till the end.

[@kirstymcwilliams1107]

I am a Christian and believe that as Jesus said 'when you pray go to your room and close the door'. religion is a private matter. One persons relationship with their creator. I believe in one law for all and that is one not dictated by a mans interpretation of scripture. But made up of laws that strive for peace amongst any creed, colour, gender or sexuality. I don't know if when the final day comes, there will be any god. If there isn't then I will still be happy with the life I've lead personally. But will we be happy with the world we created in our search for the true god? Probably not.

[@MKAUK]

There is nothing to apologise for in the Holy Quran it is a rational, scientific, forward thinking Book. Yes women are treated badly in so-called Islamic countries as well as in all countries across the world: 1 in 3 women have been abused. Is this the so-called women's revolution? Unfortunately there are no truly Islamic countries. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) himself said that the leaders of the Muslims would be the worst people on the face of the earth in the later days this has been fulfilled.

[@chuqyv12]

So what do these panelists have to say about ISIS in 2014???!!!!

[@MKAUK]

This has already been answered, when making a statement about Islam it should be backed up by the Holy Quran and the practice of the Holy Prophet. When executing the law in Medina the Holy Prophet(pbuh) used to offer the person a choice as to which law to apply i.e. Custom, their own religion or Islamic Sharia. Of course Islam being a complete faith the code offers guidance and rules on how to run Economy, foreign affairs etc. but it does not mean that the 'Church' should overide the State

[@MKAUK]

Hi Edwin, we are not advocating the mixing of Religion and State as Islam does not advocate this

[@hollyclark8837]

Thank you for making people see the seriousness and threat to human rights and all the progress that has been made to protect the individual to a life of autonomy!

[@genmailsmails5818]

I am confused, forget about other religions and their attitudes, but the muslims say may peace be upon him each time they discuss something, but why muslims are not peaceful and why it contradicts between the muslims itself.

[@jeethuutube]

Nice talk from Maryam

[@CalvinGeorgeSisyphus]

Good job Maryam Namazie. Reason sometimes need a continuously drumbeat repeated to be understood.

[@MKAUK]

Actually look at history, when the Holy Prophet (pbuh) came he transformed, barbarians, drunkards, beaters of women, illiterate people into the noblest men on earth, from whom the Intellectual revolution began and ultimately ushered in the rennaisance of Europe. This is established history please read Life of Muhammad (pbuh) by Hadhrat Mirza Bashirudin Mahmud Ahmad (ra)

[@MKAUK]

@4g0I17; thanks for your coment; but we are the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, our Community was founded to bring back the true teachings of Islam, we have nothing to do with these human right contraventions. So I do not doubt that you will find other interpretations of Islam in some parts to contravene human rights - but those interpretations are not based upon the true teachings of Islam as taught and practiced by the Holy Prophet (pbuh)

[@MKAUK]

Obviously beg to differ on this one...The imposition of Sharia Law on non-Muslims is what we do not propose and neither does Islam and neither did the Holy Prophet (pbuh). With regards human rights there is no greater champion of Human rights than the Holy Prophet (pbuh) just look up his last sermon. Awe inspiring.

[@YahyaAhmadkhan]

Great going MKAUK! I hope we can carry this on and spread the message of true beautiful Islam.

[@MKAUK]

Hi Anne, thanks for your reply. But it is characteristic of the debate. The debaters from the Islamic side use the Holy Quran and practice of the Sunnah to prove theirs and our point, but the other side is using just the current Muslim practices which is not based on the Holy Quran. The debaters demonstrated from the real life example of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) that he never imposed Sharia on non-believers when governing in Medina.

[@Sassafras30]

Why are there only men at this meeting? Where are the women?

[@voicesforpeace_nasir]

@Dgenerate01 ah, one more thing. Can you point out a single fact presented by Ahmadis in this debate differs from the teaching of Islam ?

[@royamazidi9836]

love and support dear Maryam Namazie

[@AbrarAhmadBaig]

a woman in islam has the right to divorce, in fact she is allowed to say that i don't like his face and walk off, whereas the man must go through a long procedure which lasts 3 months or more. social activities or cultural activities cannot be put into connection with religion.

[@AlhajiYaqub]

I think the gentlemen in the big hat made a compelling case for the misunderstanding of Islamic Sharia. Most of the exasperation in what has been collective termed Sharia Law is, in fact, not Islamic Sharia at all. As an example stoning people to death for adultery and death for apostasy and so on has know bases in the Qur'an. He made that case very well. I find it to be remarkable that the opponents of Sharia are opposing the Sharia of countries other than their own. They seem to rally around the infringements of women's rights or human rights outside of there home country. I wonder why they don't focus on the infringements of human rights based on the Jewish and Christian Sharia, which forms the bases of civil law and impact public policy in their own country. I live in a country where Jewish Law and Catholic Code of Cannon Law are recognized by U.S. Courts. There have been barbaric executions and unjust imprisonment under those systems. The truth-in sentencing polices have filled the prisons here, so much so, that America has more prisoners than any other country in the world. A person could spend 74 months in prison for a 1st time non-violent crime. The economic burden on the law abiding citizens has increased there taxes with no end in sight. I don't disagree that Sharia Law administered in certain countries is an infringement on human rights, but Islamic Sharia doesn't. A clear distinction was made between Sharia Law (in whatever country) and Islamic Sharia. That distinction should be a part of the debate along side the barbaric confinement of 2 million prisoner imprisoned under the influence of Jewish and Catholic Code Cannon Sharia.

[@voicesforpeace_nasir]

@Dgenerate01 We, Ahmadis recite Qalima Shahadah with our hearts. That's enough to be muslims. Do you know it is mentioned in hadith that reciting Qalima is good enough to judge whether muslim or not ? Though you r talking about hadith, you forget about what I ask. Do you know who related the hadith about stoning ?

[@peacebeonyou786]

@ritchloui You quoted Muslim (17:4206) but failed to say that the Holy Prophet (pbuh) had initially dismissed her on several occasions but the lady repeatedly came back and insisted on being punished. Now this is the scenario where the Islamic instruction on adultery had not yet been revealed and so the Holy Prophet (pbuh) was compelled to punish the lady according to the Torah due to the lady’s own persistence....

[@ahmaddhee2705]

Here it is evident that the true teachings of Islam is corrupted. One who has any sort of intelligence will understand that "Muslim" countries who interpret Islam are doing so in a very wrong way and this is not the true teaching of Islam. Then who is depicting this True Islam. Perhaps the one sect that is peaceful, united, and regarded outside of the fold of Islam by mainstream "Muslims". This sect is indeed the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.

[@Sassafras30]

Whoops, sorry, I take back my previous statement about no women attending this meeting.

[@Del-Canada]

Great video. I actually learned alot. *punches into the air because it's Friday*

[@Apes2man]

Maryam Namazie has a very good argument that has not been answered, but brushed aside as it's not the true islam. Then why is it the islamic country's islam not true? Why are there different interpretations of the koran, even as read in arabic in the first place?

[@MKAUK]

The issue is not that the Muslim world is following the Holy Quran but that they have turned their back on the Holy Quran and its teachings and are following the edicts of medieval scholars over the Holy Quran. What nasty bits in the Holy Quran? Ones that have been mistranslated or taken out of context! There is no verse of the Holy Quran which teaches that a husband should be beating his wife! This is a deliberate misrepresentation of the words written there.

[@mansoorly]

Well defended by Youngster brothers, Inshallah Ahmadiyya Muslim community will defend Islam in every way in the world.

[@Apes2man]

In regards to your response on christians, they believe jesus to be the messiah (Do you believe that as well?) and worship him. They don't think mohammed is a prophet or holy. All sects of different religions all claim to be the correct one, so your claim is just as equal, divisive and meaningless.

[@R0YB0T]

Muhammad was a powerful warlord though. I doubt debating him was an option. Isn't it more likely that he was either lying or delusional? Angels are fictional correct?

[@northlondonforever1411]

None of the panel clearly, objectively, defined what is/isn't human rights. Just as they stated that shariah is down to interpretation, human rights also is down to interpretation.

[@ibrahimerwinantonionew2758]

True Shariah Law was practiced in the Koran...but....Islamic countries only practices what is in their culture under the shadow Shariah...but not really following what is in the Koran...

[@Nomiboy19]

very good camerateam!

[@MKAUK]

Hi R0YB0T, the Meccans who bitterly opposed the Holy Porophet Muhammad, debated the same question, it is recorded in history. But when discussing whether he was lying, they said it was impossible as he always told the truth; similrarly with regards delusional, that was also not a possibility. In the end they decided to label him a Magician

[@MKAUK]

@ thetruthinhim risen; that is the beauty of Islam, we are required by faith to believe in Jesus Christ (peace be upon him); in fact we are required to pray and send blessings on him in our prayers throughout the day. Whereas we are finding nowadays a lot of those who are claiming to be devout Christians are freely insulting and abusing the Holy Prophet (pbuh). Which way is the truth?

[@danieldemol]

I have to say that the moderator did an awesome job of keeping it cool during some tense moments, definitely a natural tv presenter :)

[@FaisalKhan-nk2hu]

admin please answer me what u mean by ahmadi muslim? ??who r ahmadi muslim? ??those who called non muslims in Pakistan? ??those who believe on Mirza ghulam Ahmadi? ??

[@MKAUK]

yes we are Ahmadi Muslims who are called non-Muslim by the entire Muslim Ummah. Alhamdolillah. This proves the prophecy of the Holy Prophet(pbuh), who said 72 sects would be hell bound and a 73rd heavenly. We are the only community where the 72 got together united and said they are Muslim (ie heavenly bound) but we are non-Muslim. Who do you believe: Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or your local Mullah?

[@peacebeonyou786]

@ritchloui You quoted Bukhari (6:60:79) but failed to say that it was in fact the Jews who brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from ‘among them’ (i.e. two Jews) who had committed illegal sexual intercourse. They were then judged by the Torah as the hadith clearly states (not the Quran) otherwise the Holy Prophet (pbuh)) would have been seen as imposing upon the Jews a different law to which they did not subscribe to......

[@hjamal200789]

The gentlemen clearly won the debate.

[@peacebeonyou786]

@ritchloui so what you say was in fact prophecised 1400 years ago by the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and similarly the revival of 'true' Islam was also prophecised and this process has started but these things take time. for further info please look into the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and its history.

[@SaelPalani]

I love Maryam Namazie. She speaks such truth. One law for all.

[@MKAUK]

@Mrthebengaltiger1 In reply to our comment; please listen to the debate carefully we are the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community; your preconceived ideas about Islam and suppression of women's rights are entirely wrong. As for your comment that Muslim women should listen to Maryam Namazie, that's derogratory to the intelligence of our Muslim Sisters - Muslim Women are most certainly intelligent enough to understand Islam and know their own rights.

[@peacebeonyou786]

@ritchloui The Quranic teaching on adultery is very clear as follows - ‘The adulteress and the adulterer - flog each one of them with a hundred stripes.’ (chapter 24, verse 3). No mention of stoning in the Quran whatsoever.

[@AlhajiYaqub]

Animam Rebelles says, False. Qur'an calls to kill apostates. Just like it calls to amputate hands/legs of thieves. She should at least provide the Qur'anic references, which support her accusations.

[@mushtaqurrehman6543]

Great presentation much learnt from all parties....

[@MKAUK]

Hi Roddy, please watch the video then make up your mind...

[@marionaini1264]

Maryam, I am proud of you... Thank you... Thanks your mom and dad..

[@cuchuallin]

The ladies clearly won this debate. They clearly showed and gave several examples of how Sharia law does indeed negate human rights. The guys didn't deny this (in fact one agreed) they could only show how Sharia law "should not" negate human rights.

[@billrubble7782]

i was expecting some ducking and diving from the muslim but to deny iranian and afghan regimes have anything to do with islam?!!?! lol nice comment censoring lol

[@MKAUK]

hi research establishes all Religions are monotheistic! Please read Revelation Rationality, Knowledge and Truth

[@MarekK64]

Normally, I would side with Roddy but recently I have become aware of Ahmadi muslims and I am making allowances and distinction between islamic radicals like the Sunni and the Ahmadi. Hopefully the more I learn about your sect of islam the more I would be willing to accept that not all islam is evil.

[@charlesregan9917]

Amazing Woman, very intelligent

[@AhmadiyyaTrueIslam]

Alhumdolillah.

[@ThePeacefulMessage]

Great

[@timjames8351]

Without religion, how great could we human beings be?

[@peacebeonyou786]

@ritchloui You quoted Bukhari (83:37). It is a very well known fact that not all ahadith are authentic and so to vet them, if they in anyway contradict the Holy Quran then they are dismissed. Why, because the Holy Quran is the word of God which supersedes any hadith. It is also a well known fact that the Holy Quran has not been corrupted or tampered with in anyway and it’s text is the very same original text. In this scenario, this hadith would simply be dismissed....

[@MKAUK]

All Religions wherever they appeared in the World, whether it is Australia, China, India etc are based on the belief of Revelation from God, please read the book 'Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth' which proves this. And we have no issues or problems with Jews and neither did the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) founder of Islam. There are many examples of this throughout his life; for example when the funeral of a Jew was going past, he stood up as a mark of respect.

[@arzukhan3284]

Education is in the minds & not on piece of paper awarded....One's essence &well being comes from what one's conscience weighs in for real humanity.Would one choose to help a person in need with no material benefit ?Thus,it is not the paper that certifies the purity of women's freedom...Talk from the hearts are validity rather through memorized a few words.

[@MKAUK]

Hi Jenny, thank you for your comment; but unfortunately I believe your view of Islam is coloured by mirepresentation by other Muslims or Western commentators, who have presented a delibirately distorted view of Islamic teachings. As for scientific facts; the Holy Quran is full of scientific discoveries which have only recently been discovere please read Revelation, Rationality Knowledge and Truth for more information.

[@SumuduVNagodavithana]

Great job defending secularism ladies !!!