WHY CHANGE ENGINES MID-SEASON? Opinions and a Look at Indycar's New Hybrid Engines

[@trj820]

Two things: 1. Nashville is using the short oval aero rather than the superspeedway aero. 2. I honestly think the stinker at Iowa is due mostly to the repave and the fact that Firestone really screwed up the tire compounds. The lower lane was just too grippy to allow for any overtaking. The hybrid may have added a bit of weight, but there was no major change from it.

[@matthewsallman1700]

I heard Rossi say that while he did get early testing as part of the McLaren team, there was a system change that happened before the system was used in a race. The non-initial test teams got to test the final version of the system before Mid Ohio. So there might be less of an advantage for McLaren, Ganassi, Penske, and Andretti. Yes, Ganassi and Penske have won the Hybrid races, but they have been winning about everything anyway this year.

[@mrbloodmuffins]

Honda was vocal earlier this winter about the possibility of exiting the series over putting money and resources into things Indycae say they will introduce but keep canceling or postponing like the 2.4L engines or the hybrids.

[@jonnyspa27]

Honda also developed a 2.4 L from scratch, had it ready to go, and Chevy said “oh, we’re not ready yet…“. Honda tucked their balls, was a team player and waited for Chevy to get their thing in order. Meanwhile, Honda took their newly designed 2.4 L stuck in the back of an IMSA GTP. I don’t blame Honda for being frustrated at this whole thing.

[@jonnyspa27]

It would make a lot more sense to me to have a new chassis in two years for Indycar. Then have it compatible to have any sort of style engine be able to drop in the back of that new chassis.

[@chrisguardiano6143]

@@jonnyspa27 I think Honda will go to NASCAR should they leave Indycar mainly because the costs are lower than in Indycar. Also being in NASCAR allows Honda to compete head to head with rivals Toyota.

[@fallenshallrise]

I've been watching the coverage of this hybrid launch and it seems like the IndyCar media and fanbase are one of the least patient of any series. I mean ChampCar ran V8s and you still have people in the IndyCar comments saying "bring back the V10s". The cars are over 12 years old, NASCAR owns half the circuits and has a habit of resurfacing them right before IndyCar is coming to town and then they chose to neuter their KERS to only 60 HP to avoid failures. GM & Honda managed to lighten the engine by 40 lbs before the season and fit a supercapacitor KERS into the bell housing capable of a 150 HP boost once they turn it all the way up which is pretty cool tech.

[@KevinJDildonik]

Social media. Literally one guy had an engine problem, and due to multiple factors like resurfacing and tire compounds racing was meh, and now every thread is full of doomers screaming SERIES IS COOKED. Being a racing fan sucks with these mouth breathers around.

[@AidanMillward]

@@KevinJDildonik indycar fans just want it to be 1994 again. Same way f1 fans want it to be 2004 again.

[@Lael128]

@@AidanMillwardnot 2004 but 2003 😅 And yeah 1994 CART was EPIC!

[@allainangcao28]

​@@AidanMillward A wild Mansell has appeared! It would be interesting to review the history of F1 drivers transitioning to Indycar/CART full time and not one-off drives like Alonso, Clark, Hill, etc. Drivers that were considered midfield or backmarker drivers in F1 and whether they found success in the States. I think the only full timers that were successful in both motorsports were Fittipaldi and Mansell.

[@mrterp04]

@@allainangcao28Mario Andretti would like a word

[@IndyF1FanMarquis]

As a lifelong IndyCar fan here is a hard truth. F1 is much more exciting technologically and even recently in the racing; same with sportscar racing. It's a hard pill to swallow, but IndyCar has lost so much relevance since the current chassis went into service in 2012. A lot of people blame Roger Penske for the current state of things, but this started way before he bought the series. I'm not a Penske apologist either; but unfortunately it's going to take time to right the ship. The problem is, time is running out, and it's by their own doing. The series needs a new engine formula yesterday. They need a new chassis last year. The DW12 has performed yeoman's work over the last 10 years, but it's a Frankenstein's monster at this point with all of the added safety equipment and compromise. Sorry for the rant, but I love IndyCar way too much to keep watching them kick the can down the road.

[@danielhenderson8316]

Thankfully, the voices asking for a new car is getting louder. Hopefully the 2027 rumor is true.

[@KevinJDildonik]

Social media racing fans are the most fairweather fans in history. Indy had been a class leader for a long time. Leader in halo/windscreen. Leader in testing new electronic passing systems. Leader in concepts for high-speed circuits versus technical circuits. The moment literally one guy has an engine problem during a mid season engine rollout? SERIES IS COOKED IT WAS ALWAYS BAD I STOPPED WATCHING 40 YEARS AGO

[@IndyF1FanMarquis]

@@KevinJDildonik Your argument is sound aside from the fact that even the participants feel the same way. Some are now more open about it than before, but this is not a sudden emotion. I wouldn't consider myself fairweather as I have been a fan since the early 80's. I'm also a realist, and can see the problems and the need for pointed solutions.

[@samzilla1050]

100% agree Im a lifelong f1 fan, started watching Indy in 2017 after Alonso's first 500 run, the fact that the chassis haven't changed since 2012 is honestly a joke. Imsa in my honest opinion is the primer racing in America, their product especially if you watch the imsa broadcast is so much better than indycar. F1 in recent races has really gotten into its stride for this season would love for them to move away from these lame street tracks and go back to circuits again like how the series use to be. When it comes to American racing I watch indycar just to keep up with it but I don't enjoy it as much as I use to imsa on the other hand! Can't get enough of it

[@jacksonschene2727]

This. I grew up in Indianapolis and have been to more 500s than I can remember. Haven’t watched the series in the past few years. “Kicking a can down the road” is a perfect analogy.

[@HolmstromRules]

The primary culprit for the lack of passing at Iowa last weekend was the combination of the repaving and the tire compound Firestone brought for the Indycars. Previously, the action was great because the tires started to go off about 30 laps into a run, when the cars would start to become a handful, and tire management was paramount. This resulted in the need for four or five pitstops. This year the tires would last an entire fuel run and this resulted in the race being a two-stopper. Contrast that with the Indy NXT race where tire blistering was so bad that they had to shorten the race distance and insert a mandatory yellow for a new set of tires... so it wasn't just the repaving.

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@HolmstromRules Yep. Firestone brought tires that were better designed for LeMans than Iowa Speedway. Add that to the half ass repave and you've recreated a Texas Motor Speedway race after they dumped all the PJ1 crap on the track. We won't have a good comparison until after Gateway which will give us a street course race and a short oval to see if it's the hybrid that's the problem or something else.

[@extragoogleaccount6061]

So one race with too little and one race with too much tire degradation?

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@extragoogleaccount6061 Yep. It wasn't Firestone's best weekend by a long shot.

[@Zbrown531]

Bro, where is the silver KZbin button? 100k! Happy for your growth!

[@AidanMillward]

@@Zbrown531 it’s downstairs on the sideboard.

[@tHebUm18]

3:19 Wish the 2026 regs opened the F1 engineers to do their engineer thing with the hybrid including capacitors, solid state, whatever struck their fancy.

[@alexhemsath6235]

Nice Townsend Bell reference.

[@terribleshockex110]

As someone whos only just seen the clip of Stingray Rob's crash, what was so scary about it? I mean its scary becaue its airborne, but ive seen plenty of others in simular scenarios getting less attention or creating less fear

[@timzy4395]

IndyCar NEEDS a new Engine formula + hybrid. They need a new chassis and car too and again, bring back the IRL spectacle of more ovals. Lighter, faster cars would help the series. As well as travelling to tracks in South America as well

[@danielhenderson8316]

The IRL "spectacle" was propped up by a 10 year contract with ISC where if I wanted to tickets to my local track (Kansas Speedway) for a NASCAR Cup Race, I was forced to buy tickets to the IndyCar race. Once that contract ended is when every ISC track threw IndyCar out. To get any new ovals on the track is going to need a title sponsor like HyVee or Big Machine Vodka to promote an oval race. With the Fox deal for IndyCar and IndyNXT, there will be more eyes on the sport and hopefully more interest in doing that.

[@markalbert9011]

Aiden, it all gets down to Roger and what's important to Him. And what's important to Him is The Indianapolis 500, after all he has 19 wins there (Re: Mario). Whatever, whyever, however the decision was made, it was made around Indy. My guess is He wants to get the kinks ironed out on-track before next Memorial Day. I suspect the long delays are about watching the bottom line. IndyCar is doing better, but for perspective NASCAR sold out both the Saturday and Sunday races, IndyCar did half that. I live in the SF Bay Area and I see some F1 merch on fans locally but I've never seen any IndyCar hats, t-shirts, stickers etc.

[@lancelot_53]

Take a drink every time Aidan says "Hybrid"

[@PendragonDaGreat]

I haven't even started watching, but I'm gonna take the hard pass and live thanks.

[@mikehipperson]

I'll drink to that! Hic!

[@AidanMillward]

Lightweights.

[@davidaugustofc2574]

I'm deceased 💀

[@izzdin6228]

As frustrated as i am with Indycar's current situation, I'm just gonna sit back and watch the shitshow, if it fully devolve into one. We're already 3 races into the hybrids, and its still too soon to judge. So I'm gonna judge after the season is over.

[@RabidJohn]

I've been told that the lap time cost of the extra 100lb or so of hybrid unit is not being offset by the additional power they can deploy. White elephant springs to mind.

[@AidanMillward]

@@RabidJohn it’s like .2 of a second. It’s tragic.

[@captiannemo1587]

The bots love you.

[@camrsr5463]

I think indaycar taking baby steps with new tech is fine. Better to work out issues in small chunks than all at once. The new chassis is the going to put the weight in better places and hopefully make the car less of a pig. If there is a weight drop don't expect it to be substantial. Indycar is almost a spec series and while having more manufacturers is great I don't think it has that much of an impact on the series and the racing as a whole. Tire competition is gone chassis competition gone engine competition.....lets wait and see.

[@FallingPicturesProductions]

You're never getting a tire or chassis competition (or even engine competition) like that again because that stuff needs money sprayed at the wall and a willingness for teams to try a rival's product out. Money that doesn't exist anymore, and trust that is gone because right now every team in Indycar thinks that they are just temporarily embarrassed champions and with one driver or one personnel change they'll suddenly be scrapping for wins and maybe titles. Tire competition resolved itself in 2000 when Goodyear couldn't step up since '97 and everyone up and down the grid admitted Firestone was better. There's just no one else who's can crack the good feelings that Firestone gives the series right now, there was a move to swap from Firestone to Continental (?) in 2011 and the backlash was so bad from drivers and teams that the people who were pushing the change were all but evicted from their jobs in the following years. Same with chassis competition. Five different manufactuers in CART in 1997 (Lola, Reynard, Penske, Swift, Eagle) and all five of them had bankruptcy between '97 and '02, with only Lola coming out of it alive because they went bust and recovered first. On the IRL side the chassis war between 2003 and 2005 ended because all the top teams jumped in on Dallara so Dallara just got enough money to crush the competition despite putting out an aerodynamic safety nightmare. There was a private bidding war for the 2012 chassis and Dallara won easily but all four submissions were financially gimped: Dallara's DW-12 won but was overweight and underdeveloped, Panoz just copy-pasted the DP01 specs, Deltawing was undercooked and slow to develop, and Lola had this bizzare idea that they could pull a Radical Cup and make the Lights cars and Indycars the exact same thing but with slightly different wings and engines.

[@Kacper_Kolodziejczyk]

Aidan, important to note, supercapacitors are far from new tech. They have been used by Toyota in LMP1 for their first many years of their hybrid program. They gave been extensively developed for years and the main issue is that they cannot store nearly the same amount of energy per weight as lithium-ion batteries. They can have incredibly high charging currents and discharge currents but that's of no real use when the currents already charging car batteries are so high the grid is the limit, not the battery charging current

[@ThrowingItAway]

They have plenty of real use in a performance setting to compliment a battery. If the capacitor bank is large enough to store the energy from a high amount of braking it can then be fed into the batteries at a rate they can accept. Currently you can only charge batteries at a given rate without damaging them, which is then a cause for a loss of energy as the rest of it is bled off as heat in the brakes. Similarly the discharge rate of a battery is limited as to avoid damaging the cells, with a super capacitor bank onboard the battery can slowly charge them avoiding the stress on the system. Why F1 hasn't been using them as a buffer for the batteries is beyond me.

[@Alex-md6bu]

Indycar be like we’re going to change the rules mid season, meanwhile f1 decides to change the rules mid race 😅

[@AidanMillward]

@@Alex-md6bu that’s if they actually apply them to start with.

[@markalbert9011]

Aiden, after reading my post it dawned on me that you should look into doing a story about the 1981 Indy 500. Good story, lousy ending but Mario had the last laugh. He kept the winners ring and still wears it daily. I saw an interview where Mario said "Watch collectors paid $17 million for Paul's (Newman) watch. What do you suppose sports collectors would pay for this when I'm gone? It'll be worth more than all my other trophies combined.

[@superduperbooper3987]

I was at the race at Mid Ohio. I didn’t even know that they were running the hybrid system. We all saw that something happened to Dixon but no one knew what the cause was. The audio on the announcement system was muffled by the cars and the crowd. I was down near the entry to turn four.

[@TheJosu145]

Actually, the new package IR-18 was design to have both aeroscreen and a space to a hybrid

[@jonathanparker2939]

Sheesh, it’s been two races, give it a chance…

[@413TomaccoRoad]

They need to get Black Gate capacitors made for this application.

[@wiegraf9009]

Coming from F1 where a new formula typically means lots of cars DNFing on fire or with smoke coming out of them I'm not much bothered by the idea of "doing it live" with the hybrid tech. It's cool that IndyCar is actually working on this stuff when other series aren't. On the other hand the hodge-podge nature of the current spec is a pretty valid complaint. Let's see how it goes.

[@MrRb9999]

The same teams that loved the chassis and engine diversity of CART has fallen in love with the cost savings from using the same engine and chassis until they are sent to a graveyard. RP is spending adverse and hopes to get several more years out of what the series has by making changes that continue to delay any new chassis or engine. These teams will continue to beat the DW12 dead horse until the series collapses.

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@MrRb9999 Those same teams were also generally paid by those manufacturers to run their equipment. Things change when you're spending your money on stuff.

[@MrRb9999]

@@danielhenderson8316 that’s fine. Just don’t make this sound like an issue caused by the series when it’s push back by the teams. The teams like squeezing the pennies regardless of the affects on the series. They have had a chassis redesign on the table for years along with engine rule changes, but it keeps getting pushed to later dates and I’m sure it’s not the series requesting the delays. Best way forward is to get a new chassis and have Illmore build the engines and let chevy and honda walk away. They don’t have interest in racing, just designing stuff that doesn’t improve the racing product. Next they’ll be pushing for a 2 liter I 4 engine with a 500 lbs battery.

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@MrRb9999 Except it's only now IndyCar has come to the realization that they need a new car. There still has not been an official tender for a new car, just the upgrades they keep making to the DW12 chassis. The only thing in your list that was actually worked on was the 2.4L V6s when Toyota was going to join before the new CEO of the US division pulled out. If they just wanted more engines, Cosworth would have been there Day 1.

[@lukew6725]

As an F1 fan hearing that Indycar is using a 13 year old chassis is absolutely insane!

[@ZeroCrystal]

Based on what I saw at Mid Ohio, the change over to hybrid at this point was undercooked to the point of getting salmonella. Hybrid should have been introduced at the start of 2025, with a Hell of a lot more testing. This was a bad idea brought far too early. And for those who want to decry waiting until next year, I bring you the words of a well known philosopher: "You can always delay and improve, but a rushed release is always crap."

[@DuvJones]

Honestly based on what I have seen, IndyCar's failing with the new system has nothing to do with the system. It has everything to do with IndyCar's utter refusal to change the chassis, and then go build an engine & hybrid system around that. I think that there is a fear that once they changed the chassis, everything changes in the cars & will look different.... which looking how the other pieces of Motorsport go around this, yeah that is the point. You can't just bolt on a new system on an old skeleton. F1 understood that, the WEC understands that, IMSA understands that... but I think we all hear saw what happened when formula one did it, things got bigger. IndyCars are pretty small, and there is just another fear among enthusiast about things getting bigger & heavier. If IndyCar wants the attraction of both its current manufacturers and others, they're going to have to be willing to be a laboratory of sorts.... if hybrid is what they're looking at and things get bigger and heavier as a result, but they have the attention of several other manufacturers plus Honda and Chevy. Then it's a price worth paying if I'm looking at it.

[@KevinJDildonik]

It was a successful race with a few hiccups, including racers who could restart engines which wasn't possible under old regs. It was fine.

[@janremongalura5713]

So the AAA game industry?

[@paulowen7560]

How about how the 919 harvested energy through the exhaust? Is this dependent on the engine having a turbo?

[@AidanMillward]

It’s about having an MGU-H which wouldn’t fit the IR18.

[@chrisdavidson911]

It sounds like a disorganised mess, but it could turn out to be ideal. Half a season to figure out what the bugs are, do some experiments that’ll have the spectators complaining about the racing not being as good, then use the off-season to implement any major changes and get it all working properly. Bosh. They don’t know what chassis changes could be necessary without finding out properly, which is better than guessing.

[@josephotoole9088]

I think the debuted it this was because Dallara wants data for a new chassis and they know they've put the new chassis off too long. Trying to make up time basically

[@MrTakaMOSHi]

Indycar desperately needs a new chassis, something designed with the hybrid system in mind

[@king_br0k]

I think it would be cool if there were no limits on the hybrid generation or deployment

[@IndyCarFanatic]

IndyCar will look to bring in a new chassis sometime after 2027. This was confirmed by reporting by Marshall Pruett who asked IndyCar's CEO Mark Miles at the Indy 500. And to my chagrin, Zak Brown hit the nail on the head about IndyCar's move to hybrids is about marketing rather than producing great racing. The series backed themselves into a corner and had to go hybrid this season after threats from Honda about leaving in 2026.

[@gwcrispi]

As Ed Carpenter said "We're paying a lot of money to make the racing worse. But we can say we're a hybrid series."

[@KevinJDildonik]

They said the same about the windscreen. Until the moment it saved a life. And they'll say the same about hybrid as soon as they start realizing all the sponsors who aren't so keen on burning dino juice.

[@alexisborden3191]

If Ed Carpenter thinks the hybrid is the reason the racing wasn't good in Iowa it explains a lot of things about why his team is so bad.

[@alexjenner1108]

@@KevinJDildonik I'm sure there is more dino juice burnt by spectators driving to a large race like Indy, than is burnt by the cars on the track. Or in the case of F1, the amount burnt by drivers flying in their private aircraft back to their tax free residence in Monaco between races. Also, I believe they use a mostly alcohol based fuel in Indycar.

[@413TomaccoRoad]

If you subscribe to the NTT Indy Car channek, they always have a post about the the next race weekend and how you won't be able to watch unless you have Peacock for half the races.

[@Bourne246]

Racing is perfectly fine without hybrid systems.. hybrids are best in city traffic..

[@MinusMOD98]

Surely InydCar could've talked to Dallara and developed a simplified VI-21 derivative if they wanted F1-style battery systems

[@AidanMillward]

@@MinusMOD98 costs money that.

[@minibus9]

awesome video

[@NicoGorsberg]

So, does that mean next indy 500 will suck? Or won't be at least as any good as the last few ones ?

[@DJDouglasWarden]

Many of us fans talked about how good the racing has been at Iowa the previous few years. Iowa 24 sucked.

[@AndyFromBeaverton]

I don't hate the hybrid, I hate how it is implemented. They should be able to use the 320 kilojoules per lap at any rate the driver chooses. Hopefully, they can increase the storage and create a higher output in power than the push-to-pass button. Watching the past 2 races you can't visibly notice any extra speed from the car. They should eliminate the corny red/green display chart for TV viewers and add red/green lights to the roll hoop. I felt bad for Dixon, it really hurt his chances in the championship.

[@tHebUm18]

4:15 Doing DC fast charging already takes minutes, not hours.

[@wadecoppage5583]

I live in America and only started watching IndyCar in the last few years, mainly because there's so many drivers I watched in F2/3 that race there now. I've watched F1 for a whole lot longer. I'll always watch F1 regardless of how boring it gets, but if Indy turns into a 250 lap parade like at Iowa I'm not sure it will hold my attention. Plus if it does, what will Leigh Diffey have to scream about?

[@AidanMillward]

@@wadecoppage5583 which driver is married to who like he was at Road America? 😅

[@zeropoint216]

I don't watch any boring races

[@dextrodemon]

idk they could have always bolted a starter on there, and it'd be lighter. don't think hybrid has much to offer oval racing, regenerative braking is still braking.

[@fix0the0spade]

Hi Aiden, I'm the sixth comment but the first real human (waves from Yorkshire)...

[@AidanMillward]

What you on about? These women flashing their gashes are totally real!

[@Exponaut_R-01]

I know there have been a lot of issues of varying sizes for IndyCar but nothing that felt like a major long term concern. At least, nothing that would have the whole motorsport world pointing and laughing. But, not only is this a really shaky rollout… Who changes engine formula mid season??? I want to say “That’s some 60s/70s F1 stuff” but I doubt they were even allowed to do that back then. Why would anyone be okay with so much uncertainty mid season?

[@XemawthEvo2]

Honda has been waiting YEARS for this formula to debut. They have spent millions if not billions of dollars developing for this formula, and they finally told Indy Car they are done throwing money at something they desperately want, but series keeps delaying. This was a matter of keeping half of the existing duo of manufacturers on the grid, because Honda are ready to pull out, and the chassis makers/teams need data right away if they want to make this work in time to keep Honda in the sport.

[@herbertwilliams1608]

This makes my head hurt.

[@fredjames9867]

Hybrid is no different to push to pass apart from weight and costs . It will make no difference apart from the sticker on the engine cover

[@tturi2]

this implementation is way better than f1, less reliable, but have they raced a rotory before?

[@mikehipperson]

Stop giving Rob Dahm ideas!

[@cmajaa1]

I've said this many times, hybrid belongs in endurance racing where it makes perfect sense, but in Indy car, F1, and any relatively short distance racing it's ironically wasteful.

[@HelminthCombos]

capacitors cannot replace batteries as they do not hold their charge for very long

[@F-Man]

IndyCar is a regional series that thinks it’s an international powerhouse. It’s there because of senior citizens who think AJ Foyt is still racing.

[@Eagleracer38x]

Honda's engine has been ready for 2 years, Chevy's been messing about, or so that is what Honda is saying. That's why Honda was getting mad to IndyCar and wanting to leave when their contract is up after the 2025 season. And, yes, the races are really good, any driver could win a race. But, the championship run is only for two teams. Penske and Ganassi have won the championship 12 years running now, and the Andretti had 4 championships in the early 2000's with more championships for Penske and Ganassi. Panther Racing has the only other two championships in the 2000's. That's worse than F1 for the championship run in the 2000's.

[@apparentlyretrograde]

Think all the girlpower pornbots were due to finding the words "him or herself" in the captions?

[@AidanMillward]

@@apparentlyretrograde you must be new here. 😅

[@apparentlyretrograde]

@@AidanMillward Never seen that type before, they're usually more in your face porn spam

[@marcel4002]

New to motor sports. Why doesn't F1 race on ovals?

[@mr.fister4738]

Too draggy, power unit not fit for it, no interest from fans

[@alexisborden3191]

Ovals never really caught on in Europe in the first half of the 20th century. But places like Indianapolis and Milwaukee and all sorts of early ovals in the US did. In Europe they had street tracks like Monaco, Spa, Le Mans, etc. By the time F1 was organized, Indycar had been going for 40 years on and off, and had lots of ovals, and Nascar was established, primarily based on ovals. And in Europe F1 was racing mainly on street circuits and road courses like Silverstone and such.

[@lukew6725]

Because it's boring.

[@kben24]

Everyone saying IndyCar shouldn’t have introduced the hybrid mid-season… I don’t think you understand how stagnant the series is becoming, at least they can possibly look at increasing the hybrid power levels sooner, now that it’s already being used in competition. The 2025 IndyCar season is 8-months away… That’s an eternity!!

[@AidanMillward]

@@kben24 I know how stagnant it’s becoming. Can see it from 3,000mi away. 🤣

[@ElectoneGuy]

The car is now so overweight that whatever power the hybrid unit brings is just pushing all the extra weight added to this 12 year old pig.

[@AidanMillward]

@@ElectoneGuy yeah, it doesn’t sound like it’s been a fruitful endeavour.

[@Batters56]

Hmm I’m mixed on the car restarting whilst out on track one. I feel like if the engine dies on track then that should be you done. But did drivers used to get bump started by Marshalls?

[@danielhenderson8316]

IndyCar has always restarted stalled drivers and let them race on. In the 80's they would let the safety truck drive down the track with the lights on while the race continued on.

[@cabobs2000]

they drove up to them with a drill and started them. You get points all the way down. Its common for cars to return to the race 10 laps down just in case others crash and they can pass them.

[@micodyerski1621]

Aaahhhhggggg 😳

[@punkavatarworld2]

Every big change they do in indycars seems backwards and upside down to me. Adding a bunch of weight for something you only get to use a couple of times in a race is going to be like a wet blanket. twice a lap would would be better.

[@T.E.S.S.]

why are they using such ancient cars?!

[@zeropoint216]

if it ain't broke don't fix it

[@T.E.S.S.]

@@zeropoint216 lmao great answer 🙄

[@huntersmith4079]

Idk why I’m an indycar. Series just goes backward

[@neblolthecarnerd]

The hybrid isn't gonna revolutionise indycar racing. Unfortunately the first 2 races its had have been at tracks where the race would be mediocre no matter what they were using. Its hard to overtake and follow at mid ohio and the repave of iowa doomed the race. This has created a false view for some people that the hybrid is ruining the racing. In reality it has simply not really done anything and i believe thats the intended purpose, just to exist as a way to stop honda from leaving.

[@TalladegaTom]

Why even add the extra complexity and weight of a hybrid system anyway? It is purely 'green' pandering. If IndyCar simply wanted to add want more power, they could (should) merely open up the engine rules a bit.... nah... 'save the climate'!

[@danielhenderson8316]

Because it also acts as a started motor to refire stalled cars. If it wasn't at Mid Ohio, Race Control would have had to finish under yellow because of Grosjean's spin, but with the hybrid he restarted his car and continued racing.

[@TalladegaTom]

@@danielhenderson8316 Nah.... they could simply add a traditional type starter if that was the goal.

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@TalladegaTom Traditional starters would drain the hilariously small IndyCar battery trying to crank a race engine with a 6-7000RPM idle. That would require another modification in an area that can't really be modified.

[@TalladegaTom]

@@danielhenderson8316 Um... no. A starter system could be engineered for an IndyCar engine. The hybrid system as it is now is adding 105 pounds of weight.... surely you would agree that a traditional starter system could be engineered that weighs a LOT less than that eh?

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@TalladegaTom Where are you going to put it? The car is already a Frankenstein Monster. Plus, Honda and Chevy have already said they're keeping it at 60hp right now for reliability, but could go up to 150hp in its current form. What's needed is a new car.

[@cosmostrek2001]

they are trying to keep honda. they are going to leave for nascar with andretti.

[@frozentspark2105]

This hybrid stuff is a complete sham. Just switch to synthetic fuels already

[@danielhenderson8316]

They're already on renewable ethanol.

[@izzdin6228]

They've already switched to renewable fuels, a year earlier compared to F1.

[@Andre_The_Millennial]

@@danielhenderson8316 OP would rather bitch than educate himself.

[@alexisborden3191]

"This thing is a sham, just do this even bigger sham instead" Nevermind the fact that they're already racing on "sustainable" fuel.

[@frozentspark2105]

Nevermind the fact that the EV is STILL a sham. You have an education in anything automotive? Because I have 2 masters degrees

[@King_Ears]

The hybrid reliability will affect the championship

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@King_Ears As if Honda hasn't blown any engines this year like with Dixon's teammate Kyffin Simpson having to take a grid penalty after blowing apart his Honda.

[@Dogman36]

roger is clearly not interested in a new car or new engines. indycar needs to be bought out by nascar or something. we would get better engines and cars then.

[@F1jones]

Introduced needlessly. I'm just laughing because it's worked out exactly as I knew it would. Even at best, it's just another push button gimmick to go with Indycar's existing gimmick of P2P. So funny that DRS is seen as a bad thing even though it's cheap and reliable, and it works. Indycar spends tens of thousands on two similar gimmicks that are unreliable and don't work.

[@danielhenderson8316]

DRS is a gimmick because only certain drivers and use it at certain times while P2P and the Hybrid are open to everyone. And even if it didn't provide any extra boost, I'm happy the drivers can restart their cars after they stall in a crash or avoiding a crash.

[@F1jones]

@@danielhenderson8316 DRS actually does what it's designed to do. P2P doesn't and neither does this hybrid farce. They're just two things to get the talking heads in the booth to fill airtime with while providing no benefit real or imagined. That's a gimmick, Dan.

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@F1jones No, a gimmick is something only some drivers can use. An even worse example is the Formula E Fan Boost. If DRS could be used by the guy and front and in back, the majority of people would stop complaining to the point that the 2026 aero regulations does exactly that.

[@F1jones]

@@danielhenderson8316 sorry that you don't know the meaning of "gimmick, but it's "a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business." In other words, it's something that performs no function other than to serve as a talking about re: "hybrid." DRS isn't a "trick," it actually allows passing where it's otherwise not possible. The fact you don't like how it's implemented doesn't change the fact that it actually works as it's supposed to. This hybrid joke is NOTHING but a gimmick and is intended to get people saying that Indycar is "hybrid," which the series has admitted, with the ultimate goal of attracting the mythical third manufacturer. They don't care that it does nothing for the racing itself. It's just another P2P which, BECAUSE at best both drivers can use it, with it becoming a "Push to not be passed" feature like in a video game, it results in no change but, again, is only something to bring attention to otherwise boring racing. It changes nothing on track, and thus, by definition, is nothing but a gimmick. Give it up, you're discussing things you don't understand, evidenced by your FE tangent, which has no bearing on this topic. .

[@F1jones]

@@danielhenderson8316 sorry for the late reply, but I just thought of something else while watching the Toronto race today. F1 teams design their cars to get an advantage via DRS. It's an area of active development for every team and you can gain an advantage by engineering a better solution like Red Bull showed last year. It's resulted in there being a lot of variation in the rear wings from team to team and track to track. In Indycar, it's just a bold-on standard component. There's not even any competition between Honda and Chevy. You can't gain a competitive advantage by developing it in any way and teams can literally put more thought into improving their steering wheel as they can this hybrid component. But by that token, if it breaks there's nothing the individual team could have done about it too, they have zero input. That most succinctly defines it to me as a gimmick and not having much substance. Also, you said that only one driver has DRS, but that's not really true. When you're passed, you can try to keep up. If you were really faster, you can keep up and use DRS to re-pass the driver that just passed you. That happens all the time. It's also not automatic, there were quite a few instances in today's F1 race where drivers out-braked themselves. DRS isn't as automatic at some tracks as it's portrayed sometimes.

[@ABYTE64]

It sucks

[@TheKingAdRock93]

Indycar is a complete joke with 0 initiative to actually improve. Indycar fans will defend this lethargy because “the racing is unbelievable”. News flash: no one cares. Gain some interest by doing something NEW and INTERESTING. This hybrid engine was introduced to keep Honda from leaving…not because the sport wanted to introduce something exciting for the fans. If this sport continues to stagnate it’s going to be gone in the next few years. Indy needs a complete overhaul…this hybrid engine is a meager start, but doesn’t begin to cover the actual issues affecting the sports health. The racing will likely be good regardless…give fans, sponsors, manufacturers, TV networks, social media, etc. things to be EXCITED about, rather than continuing the futile attempt to stop the sports bleeding

[@jonathanstensberg]

Horrible video bereft of any context and riddled with magical thinking.

[@douglasladowski6342]

IndyCar are still around?????