Air Force Offers up to $600,000 to Retain Pilots

Mover, Gonky, and Wombat discuss recent news of the Air Force offering up to $600,000 in retention bonuses to help with retention of aviators. www.airforcetimes.com/news/yo...
Every Monday at 8PM ET, Mover (F-16, F/A-18, T-38, 737, helicopter pilot and wanna be race car driver) and Gonky (F/A-18, T-38, A320, dirt bike racer, and awesome dad) discuss everything from aviation to racing to life and anything in between. Send your topic ideas to cwlemoine at cwlemoine.com! Featuring Wombat (E-2, F/A-18, A320, Mustang Driver, and Bestselling Author)!
www.cwlemoine.com
www.trmatson.com
Join the channel to watch LIVE every Monday at 8PM ET or to see full episodes of The Mover and Gonky Show. You can also join in on LIVE Q&As with the Mover Mailbag: / @cwlemoine
The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement.
Views presented are my own and do not represent the views of DoD or its Components.

[@gregorymaupin6388]

Wombat smashed it, I loved my job and hated leaving but as soon as I left I made more money and immediately had better bosses and felt better in my life. I did 3 deployments in less than five years I couldn’t get a single shore duty because the government needed me to go to sea because no one knew how to work on A7s because everyone was shifted to F-18s I was unbelievably mad because I wanted to stay. The skipper was one of the reasons I left he didn’t keep the JOs in line and we had several that treated most enlisted like crap.

[@erikallder8199]

Command indoc at my last command was filled with E-5 and E-6 nukes, who get some of the highest reenlistment bonuses in the Navy. When I asked them whether they were going to reenlist every single one said, "Nope!" By the time I decided to bail I was so jaded and disillusioned that there was no amount of money the Navy could have offered me that would have tempted me to stay in. I once heard a great quote that applies here: "Never push a loyal person to the point where they no longer care." I'm glad that you all were smart enough to get out and live your lives in a way that is good for you and your families instead of hanging on longer than you should like so many do!

[@johnharris6655]

The same thing is happening with teachers. Teachers in my district max out at 117K a year and they are walking away and taking early retirement or just walking away. They are giving bonuses for Math, English and Science teachers and no one wants the job. Covid was the start and now it is the lack of discipline in schools and being reprimanded for using the wrong pronoun. You are so correct "Never push a loyal person to the point where they no longer care."

[@ronaldkonkoma4356]

These things used to seem like incompetence from leadership. Then you realize it's an effort to demoralize.

[@RamblingRodeo]

My brother was Navy, i think 10yrs and he planned to do 20yrs, he was a P3 mechanic, with tours overseas in Afghanstan and Iraq and they pushed him out, they didn't let him reelist and he had nothing on him, he was good Navy man, he had family and was making rank and loved his job!

[@RamblingRodeo]

It is like what Mover is saying, it is instutiion of the military that is broken, just as he stated i used to work at Edwards as a contractor and in a sensitive area there are a lot of really good officers and enlisted i met at Edwards which i was under command. As a civilian contractor, i don't believe i was treated any differently than what i had observed of the military people. I noticed that many were just unhappy with the location, because Edwards SUCKS for young coming out of basic and the regs are lacked.@@ronaldkonkoma4356

[@erikallder8199]

​@@RamblingRodeo I was in from 2008-2016 and watched the "right-sizing" of the Navy when they kicked out ~3000 sailors before their contracts expired. My roommate at the time was one of them as was the Junior Sailor of the Year of our command, both of whom were good at their jobs and were planning on staying in. Then the very next year the Navy essentially said, "Ooops! We kicked out too many people so now we have to increase our recruiting quota by 3000!" The recruiters love to use the line, "When you sign a contract with the Navy, the Navy signs a contract with you." What laughable nonsense.🙄 I suppose it is poetic justice that all of the services are witnessing record recruiting shortfalls. You reap what you sow!

[@352hartmn]

How do you fix the leadership problem if you are losing the good people who would make great leaders because of bad leadership?

[@CWLemoine]

Great question.

[@mobiusflammel9372]

I'm assuming that you would need an external actor, like Congress, to institute changes. Not that congress is exactly capable of that right now, but congress is supposed to have much more oversight/a more active role in working with and shaping the military than it has exercised for a long time now. Expecting the pentagon, or any institution, to change completely from within is not realistic. Not typically, anyway.

[@ghostinthesystem3872]

When you have the current administration putting gender over quality than that's where the problem starts. But overall when Obama gutted the leadership to be all yes men it screwed over the following administration's. Look at "general" milly, he kicked out 1/8 (I'm pulling that out of my ass) 9f the active and reserve members for the covid mandate, now is begging them to come back. It's politics over anything

[@danielstevens3869]

​@mobiusflammel9372 you get rid if the BS DEI crap they are doing and you go get people based on their performance not whether they are black or gay or not. That's one problem in the military right now.

[@uwekonnigsstaddt524]

The deep state care only about themselves. That’s D.C. for ya. It is a self feeding corrupt mechanism, and part of it is the Industrial (Congressional) Military Complex. That war in Ukraine was completely unnecessary. But money needed to be made. Money laundering to the highest level, only about 1/3 make it to Ukraine, the rest turned around to the politicians/weapons companies. Even the Mexican carterls have Javelin anti tank missiles. Go figure. Leadership? Yup, right there with the corrupt politicians.

[@rosevillerod]

“My body is broken, my spirit is broken” is a telling truth. The promise of the value service was broken by leadership. I’m reminded of the Marine Battalion Commander who was fired for demanding accountability from his leaders. He said it poorly but he said it true. And all of this leads to low morale, poor recruiting, exiting service members, and sadly, rising suicide rates.

[@rosevillerod]

“We put our lives on the line everyday, but for what?”

[@uwekonnigsstaddt524]

“War is a racket” Smedley Butler”, winner of 2 Congressmen Medals of Honor

[@yolkiandeji7649]

When Mover starts reading the bonuses, Wombat has this look on his face like “I make that much money in five seconds.”

[@user-xw4hn7lb3x]

I'm a vet. Only did 10 years. I get $3757 in va disability & $2300 in ssdi per month. Thank you air force.

[@hugoglenn9741]

That’s the problem with our country. You focused on money but in no way indicated whether you really deserve it or not. I know plenty on VA disability that has FAA class I physicals and are Major Airline Captains. They don’t deserve a dime

[@user-xw4hn7lb3x]

@@hugoglenn9741 I deserve every bit of it. I served and got paid peasant wages while I was in. I was fully responsible for maintaining billion$ in fighter jets. Screw you. You don't like it, then go apply for it yourself. Recruiter's office is always open.

[@user-qw1uf7me4b]

Mover, with these shortages in seasoned pilots, why would they not jump at a person like you to keep you flying?

[@CWLemoine]

Great question.

[@curly_bill1629]

My first assignment out of UPT was flying the AC-130A gunship at Korat, Thailand in the 388 TFW. In the wing briefing room, there was a sign behind the speaker's podium that read, "The mission of the USAF is to fly and fight, and don't you ever forget it." Tell me, what is the mission of today's United States Air Force?

[@paulholmes672]

20 Year retiree (avionics maintenance, Pro Super) here, spent 16 yrs on the flight line and 4 in higher headquarters. We always knew who the good leaders were, They were the ones that OBVIOUSLY cared about their team and not themselves. At higher Headquarters (5AF/7AF), the ones with the double starched Class A's/B's and biggest "love me" walls, were the ones that stepped on people all the way up. My two CO's at 5AF, were the opposite, always asking about my family, especially as we were overseas on long tours, but they also treated us like professionals and made our job about THE service, and didn't care whether they got promoted or not, it was about team and the mission. As Gonky said, I'd (still) follow them into Hell. Too many people in the Pentagon are there for both personal achievement and too busy packing their Golden Parachute. Someone mentioned Congress could fix it. The only way Congress will fix it is if they, too, were required to care about the mission more than themselves. Those types are easy to tell, they get out after a couple of terms.

[@LRRPFco52]

Congress is a jobs and contract-steering program for the grandchildren of Prohibition-era Mafia and their accountants. They propagate the toxic leadership.

[@johndeanjdsvihovic8490]

I took a $100k bonus back in the early 2000s which was $25k for 4 years. When in came time for the check I got $17.5k per year. Remember IRS will take out there share before you even get it... So in reality it was only a $70k bonus. So applying that to the $600k bonus turn out to only be $420k bonus for 12 years...

[@tommyarnold890]

This! At 19 I enlisted in the AF. While I was in I found I had severe sleep apnea which I was given an Article 15 as a result. When I separated I was given a RE code that would have been for a dishonorable discharge but have an honorable discharge. I petitioned to have it changed, which it was to a general RE code. I have been fighting to go back in the AF or Army since I left. A weak leader who didn't understand the situation put in some paperwork that has left me in a limbo that nobody wants to even try to fix. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been hosed by incompetent leadership playing with paperwork without any idea of the total ramifications of what they are doing. The real kicker is, when I contacted Randolph to get the RE changed they told me there was no record of me receiving an Article 15 and they couldn't find a legitimate reason for my RE code.

[@av8rgrip]

You guys are absolutely right. As the Navy was downsizing (A-12/A-6 going away) I put in for an interservice transfer to the AF. Got picked up for F-16’s. Talked to the AF guys in our joint training squadron, went over to Moody and flew the sim, to a Man, they said don’t do it. After training they were talking one year unaccompanied in Korea with a five year commitment and no guarantee of follow on flying. I didn’t want to fly a desk. I turned it down and went to the airlines. 911 and the lost decade, but looking back I would do it again.

[@ethanhiggins4887]

I think you would have been doing a lot of flying lol

[@CrashTestPilot]

Funny that "you'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong," ain't really a threat anymore.

[@Blackcloud_Garage]

The military could fix a majority of its problems by simply getting rid of the B.S. busy work, the B.S. administrative red tape and letting people do/train for their job. When I was a pilot I always thought flying was second or third on the list of unit priorities compared to getting ready for ARMS inspections.

[@bobrubens7769]

You hit the nail on the head about mission vs. nonsense. 1990 to 2003, I was a MSgt (E7). I was forced to end the career of one of my best workers because of weight standards. 9/11 i couldn't leave base for 6 days, no change of cothes,, washing up in a bathroom sink, got chastised for my dress appearance, never mind the countless hours launching aircraft around the clock. Then when I was chastised because the Christmas party was taking place on the first weekend I was scheduled off since 9/11 and I refused to go. I knew then it was time to leave. Stayed 1 1/2 years to get past the 9/11 workload and look for a civilian job.

[@danielstevens3869]

I was never a pilot. I was Army Infantry. I had pretty good leaders until my last 5 years. I had pretty bad leaders from 2008 until I got out in 2013. So, I totally get not having faith in leadership. I tried to go on more deployments after my 3rd one. 2 to Iraq, 1 to Afghsnistan. But instead of hearing, "Hey, you are one of the most experienced soldiers we have. We want you to go and make sure these guys come home." I was told I was staying home as a rear det. I hated it.

[@bullseye8509]

No amount of money can replace how much fun it use to be to be in the military. Military leaders need to let their people work hard and play hard and the leadership needs to reduce the minutia that has no application in accomplishing the mission. True story: Just after the kickoff to the Iraq thing, I was located on a site just south of Basra, and there was an AF CMsgt busting people for not wearing their reflective belts, wtf?

[@johnharris6655]

This happening in education too. Some teachers are walking away from 6 figure salaries and taking early retirement or just quitting.

[@bryanbishop2377]

I decided to retire because of leadership... I was going to stay till 60, but I was getting screwed and it happened more than once. Title 32/AGR were getting all the attention and DSG's weren't getting anything. Then we're spending all this time on EPR's, that we never had to do before, but now the higher ups tell us we'll look like active duty troops. It only highlighted our differences. The Air Guard is broken in many ways.

[@markbothum4338]

My grandson is an enlisted guy, a crew chief who's been in about 4 years now. Strikingly, he's complaining about the same thing. His immediate superiors are awesome, but the officers making policy decisions are totally out of touch with reality and he is NOT staying in. No way. Which sucks, because his initial plan going in was a 20 year career.

[@Runnifier]

The navy would’ve gotten a highly motivated and dedicated pilot out of me… except sweeping decks in an overmanned rate for 4 years was very clearly a higher priority than filling pilot slots. So I left the military. Trying to become a pilot while already in was harder than trying to get a blind man to see your titties.

[@richb313]

When I got out of the Navy as an E5 in 1979 there wasn't enough qualified people to light boilers I left so the Navy would be forced to improve.

[@flippinnickelproductions298]

My brother got tired of leadership and flying a desk instead of continuing to flying C-17s . He retired at 21 years as an O-5

[@hugoglenn9741]

You’re timing out at flying C-17s as an 0-5. You pretty much have the be the squadron commander and he has the spend all of his time keep want-to-be transvestite in line or sex inside the squadron. No time for flying. You can be an 0-5 in the Reserves and still fly. By staying active duty and wanting to fly he didn’t choose wisely.

[@crazypetec-130fe7]

20 years active duty, I never got a single bonus. I worked my butt off as a maintainer and flight engineer. The most I ever made in a year was in 2008, the year before I retired, when I made $38k which included flight pay and 5 months combat pay in Iraq. No, it's not about the money. But they did give me a leather flight jacket. /s

[@user-gm2qc3np5o]

I’m commercial person ,so opinion from the out-side, most country have similar problem ,and deal with more payment up.

[@ingresswizard9044]

As a former Navy nuke this hits home in so many ways. I got out in 2001 after 8 years but at that time the nuke community was already facing severe retention issues. I turned down $150K to walk away and it wasn't even a secondary thought in my mind. Nuke guys are incredibly uptempo all the time much like pilots. The home life suffers and it ultimately killed my 1st marriage. The mental demands of that job were just to much for most and I knew very successful guys who almost all universally walking away and it still continues to this day from guys I served with.

[@perspicator5779]

Fantastic perspective boys! Keep up the good work and analysis!

[@user-nd7fr8uz2n]

Speaking of good leaders, shout-out to Col Husemann. Excellent leader at my airlift squadron. He really took care of us enlisted fliers.

[@seanlehmann4235]

You guys nailed it 100% IMO.

[@boblynch2802]

Man I would love to talk to you about my experience. You are hitting many points.

[@kentchristen6048]

When I saw the title for this video, my immediate reaction was exactly what the three of you came up with--the money won't fix the problem. The other thing to consider--the guys who stay because of the money, are they really the guys you desperately want to keep? I'm sure they're thoroughly adequate, with a few decent dudes mixed in, but most of those guys who are in it for the bonus are going to be mediocre overall. I retired in late 2012, and I'm glad the timing worked out the way it did--I'm pretty confident I'd have hated being in an even more peacetime mentality Air Force than it was then. I remember the early days of the war, when the job was worthwhile and everyone did what they needed to do to get it done. Fast forward to 2007, when I deployed to Iraq and had a bitter O-6 Support Group Commander bitch at me in the DFAC at Al Uedid about my uniform as I was eating breakfast while waiting for transport into Iraq (not that the Army was immune--Balad had Sergeants Major aplenty doing nothing other than making sure people wore PT belts). I was fortunate to go to a small FOB for my last deployment back to Afghanistan in 2009-2010--I'm pretty sure Bagram would have killed my soul. Overall, it's the tone of the service that keeps people in or pushes them out. If you're more worried about PT scores and sensitivity training than breaking things and killing people--or making those things happen--your good folks will quit. Frankly, I think the conversation about flying as a job makes me think that the Air Force should seriously consider adopting the Army's Warrant Officer pilot model, because (at least the guys I knew) WO pilots generally just fly. They might have an additional duty here and there, but they really only fly as their primary task.

[@maweitao]

Honestly, this sounds just like corporate America. After two decades of working it's become evident that management is too sheltered. Unfortunately, I don't have an easy answer for how you hold them accountable.

[@JSRJS]

140k a year is not that good. 220-250k a year total salary would be starting to be worth it with a guarantee you would be flying 90% of the time with only 10% other duties requirement max

[@f16cc482]

Great points, all. The maintenance troops are no different. In the late 90’s and early 2000’s the leadership took away any chance at esprit de corps by removing rank and squadron identifiers from the uniform. The rank came back but now went away again, sort of. They took away the base clubs or made it risky to attend. They’re taking away MWR programs and making them try and be self-sustaining. Patrick AFB’s auto hobby shop is barely useable because they can’t afford to stay open more than a couple hours. Their flying club was squashed after building them a brand new hangar. If you’re not a total gym rat, life for a troop on base is boring as hell. Ops tempo has ruined many families. The airlines are hiring for great money so now the young troops are looking at that route. I personally got out in the mid 80’s after one enlistment and have been airline ever since. I did stay guard and reserve to retirement, though. But what’s the incentive, now? Retirement pension is gone. Tricare is probably next to go. Like you all said, leadership has done this. They got theirs now you can’t get yours. They do it because they can.

[@grast5150]

I still can't believe the retirement pension is gone. There is literally no reason to join.

[@ryanbare2592]

@@grast5150The retirement pension is very much still around. BRS didn’t get rid of that, it just changed the math to account for the addition of TSP.

[@grast5150]

@@ryanbare2592 It is a crappy 401K blended with the military only giving you 40% and saying its great. Remember it used to based on the highest 36 months of base pay, PERIOD. Lets Be realistic, how much money is an E1-E4 going to be able to send to the Thrift plan? What about E-5 to E-7? I am sure they chose to stay in on-base housing with the rats and roaches to save money for the thrift plan. I am sure any future family would just love to live in the on-base getto to can get some Thrift plan. But here we go, the plans starts with an amazing whole 1% of base pay which is 20 bucks per month. Wow a whole $242.04 per year. Let's not forget the 5% they voluntarily sign you up for which is another %100 bucks out of pocket for someone who is below the poverty line. I am sure seaman Jones is going to continue sending that 100 bucks to his retirement account. Oh, and look at that benefit, after 2 years, the government finally matches you. That is if the member is actually contributing with all that excess money they have other wise the matching stops at 2%. Let's look at best case, An E4 with 4 years of service, look out for the reenlistment papers, the member is saving a whole 3,000 dollars a year in an investment portfolio he has ZERO ability to MANAGE. Oh, and when can you have this money, that is right when you are retire at the age of 60. That is right spend 20 years in and get out at 38 and NOPE your Retirement does not start at the earliest till 60. Time for you to just go get another job. It's almost like the government does not way to pay you a retirement but for 20 years or so at the END OF YOUR LIFE if you are luck. But yah you are right it a GREAT Enhancement and then reason why So many men/women are just beating down the doors to enlist.

[@telesniper2]

@@grast5150 What family? You don't even have a shot at dating unless you are in the top 5% of guys or are in some extremely good environment. Otherwise you are consigned to inceldom. That's one of the big reason they are targeting recruiting towards women, gays, and weirdos. Because the men know it's pretty much an untenable lifestyle.

[@ajback2917]

​@@grast5150 It still is based on the highest 3 years just at 2% (X years served ) rather than 2.5%. Congress did it to save money, that said it's not a bad deal for most enlisted as the US has always favoured recruit and replace rather than train and retain so very few enlisted actually got to 20 years. For officers it sucks though as they were far more likely to make it to 20 and actually get a military pension.

[@Pkarchpray16]

They need to bring back an enlisted pilot program, And dont make it available to just the star Evals. Set up a testng criteria, based on a tech test and simulator test. Push those with a natural aptitude and ability.

[@garyt4800]

I was in VF-201 1980's NAS Dallas

[@wayneschenk5512]

I think it’s the view on life it’s so different early 20s to your 40s.

[@JSRJS]

When I left the Army making under 30k a year as an E-5 (4 years in, 2 1/2 of which was training), I started at 160k a year doing defense contracting doing the same job I did in the Army and I did the job I was hired for and NOTHING else. Was awesome. That was 22 years ago. Then I did a stint as a fed for 16 years and then went private and make 250k a year before taxes working ~20 hours a week (on a busy week), from home doing cyber security. I can live anywhere I want. No travel either. Bottom line is the leadership in the Army was the reason I left though....I hadn't even got the job offer when I left. They offered me 100k bonus to re-enlist with a duty station in Hawaii. I turned it down without thinking more than 10 seconds about it. Why? Leadership sucked. I was super driven as well and would have made it far in the military with a HIGHLY needed and rare job skill in the Army but I couldn't stand the inept leaders that didn't give a crap about the soldier. They had us cleaning up highways and tearing down christmas lights and working in the community recycling plant for about 1 1/2 years.....we were f'ing slaves and the job we were trained for pulled in easily 6-digits starting with less hours and no BS on the private side. If only the military treated the soldiers right, and let them do what they were trained to do.....you'd see a massive retention rate across all services

[@Snoop_Dugg]

I’m coming from the opposite side, I can hope to get money as a contractor in the coming years but still wanted to fly. If I could join part time then I could tolerate the politics and BS but being trapped for 10 years…

[@stevenlambert998]

All great, except when the "needs of Air Force" trumps this contract for a Selective Early Retirement Board, and AF doesn't Honor the contract.

[@hugoglenn9741]

The Government didn’t honor free healthcare for life if you retire either. It’s bigger than the military it’s the sleazeballs in Congress

[@chowhar]

Same in the Canadian Air Force except no $600k!

[@electricaviationchannelvid7863]

~50 year old jets are used for QRA and airshows...not enough pilots to fill the seats now...Is it going to be better when the F35 arrives? No, it is a more complex platform...longer training time in a less flexible training environment...

[@bobbyraejohnson]

Biden and tredeau what a duo 😂😂😂

[@honuswscruggs5356]

Ultimately, ALPA is a construct of federal law. Should federal law be changed to alter the way seniority works (or its significance) in the union so we're not inducing active duty pilots to leave just so they can reserve their place in some arbitrary line?

[@user-wz2ex7ux9h]

I agree with Wombat. I agree with Gronky too. Fix the leadership and money ain't gonna fix that. AMEN. And Mover is right, it's an institutional problem by and large. It's DoD-wide and it IS politics.

[@viperdriver82]

Thought that was $600,000 a year ….good luck with that

[@coll912]

11:25 "Hey dude, you didn't do the squadron Christmas party last year. You're not a team player." I *felt* that. Even as a an enlisted flyer, with all the taxing stuff we have to keep current on and constant changes to how we do things, I just want to do my job and go home. I hate how my career is defined by things that are not related to my job.

[@JetDriver77]

Or you could fly for an airline, join the ANG/AFRC (if you really want to stay in), upgrade to captain at your major airline in 3-5 years or less and make $300-400k per year to work 13-15 days per month. And get this.... $345 per hour to just... fly.... airplanes...

[@hugoglenn9741]

The government can afford a 2 theater war capability by just using Active Duty thereby the Reserves get larger and far more attractive

[@norris007]

Glad to see the 104th on the cover!

[@Pmooli]

Top gun maverick did not bring up the numbers enlisting like the 80s

[@ekcng]

Sometime $ is not everything.. the time when ure away from family, your social life, mental healths and long working hours and risks involved will still make one turn away from the monetary rewards.

[@mjpt57]

Do these bonuses including a posting out of an operational squadron and into a post office in the Middle East? I could not believe that the US military would waste the talents of such experienced assets like that.

[@timfarley274]

This is an across the board problem both government and private, thanks guys. Frustrating that Lockheed is unable to restart production of the F22.

[@WxWaterFire]

I am a Fed civilian. 100%...same in my agency.

[@discofishing]

Correction, Congress is unwilling to foot the bill for restart as it would mean automatic modernization to F-22Cs. Lockheed and Boeing can totally pull it off given the funds.

[@moonman6359]

It would be worth their while to pay a fighter pilot an extra $10m to stick around for thirty years. But paying them that much would mess with too many people’s heads.

[@p35seversky]

Question for the team: What should the younger people do that want to do these jobs? I’d love to fly fighters and do that job even at the lack of pay. Financial figures came out couple months back and it’s 60K a year for one person to just survive not including family members. Could you lend some perspective as you guys are older and have made your bed. I don’t have a specific situation for you guys as my situation isn’t applicable to everyone else but I’d say your crowd perspective is in the 16-22 year old range. At least that’s the majority of peoples age I know that want to fly in the military.

[@aerosmith2574]

The money is more than enough to live comfortably as a pilot in the military. Unless you have a ton of student loans or have problems buying cars you can’t afford, I wouldn’t say lack of money will be a problem. Obviously it’s not as much as some other college educated jobs.

[@p35seversky]

Alright if the money is decent then the leadership must be really appalling. I mean if what’s been said and shown is really true on the older guys leaving even with money thrown at them. Money won’t fix poor leaders, it leaves the people who want to do those jobs in a pickle. Once again the worker takes the worse of the blunt when it comes to leadership and political problems/power imbalances.

[@Recklessness97]

Money wouldn't be a problem. You have to be an officer if you want to fly, not counting Army warrant officers. Pretty much all students graduate and hit the fleet as a junior 0-3 or a senior 0-2. Depending on where your permanent duty station is your total regular military compensation (RMC) is $91,070.40 at an O-2 or $102,293.24 at 0-3 for a single person living in the Washington, DC area. You'd get more if you have dependents and if you have hazard pay, etc. (RMC) is defined as the sum of basic pay, average basic allowance for housing, basic allowance for subsistence, and the federal income tax advantage that accrues because the allowances are not subject to federal income tax. If you can't survive on that you got problems. Yeah it's not a lot compared to the airlines but it's way better than enlisted pay. The enlisted get shafted when it comes to pay, even with having dependents. You shouldn't have to worry about money unless you go the enlisted route, they got it tough.

[@USAFraimius]

If you want it, go for it. Just realized there are costs. You will be focused on the job for years, and things like family and stability will take a back seat during that time. There is a part of life where that is ok for a lot of people, but it's probably not 20+years long. As a young, single dude, it's not hard to deploy/move a lot, so long as you feel you are doing good work. As a married parent, that gets a lot harder.

[@seanlehmann4235]

It’s great for a young person who wants to come in and learn to fly great equipment with great training. Once you get that training and some experience, you want to do your job but you realize the service doesn’t give a crap about you, your young family, or your quality of life. The military owns you for the length of your commitment and they don’t hesitate to remind you of that. You are property and pretty much go where they want you to go, when they want you to go. If you want a “career”, you play their stupid games by their stupid rules and kiss the right asses or out you go…career over. People who are good, realize after 5-6 years they can go elsewhere/ leave the military, be treated much better, have a better life for them and their family and get paid a lot more while having to deal with much less of the stupid bullshit and having more control over your life, schedule and family situation. I noticed that the vast majority of career military officers I’ve seen, didn’t finish their career with their original spouse because the military basically makes you choose…your career or your family…which is your higher priority? If you’re young and want to be a pilot, sign up, serve your commitment, but remember the military doesn’t really give a crap about you as a person. Make you’re own dec8sion to stay or leave based on your own experiences. I wouldn’t trade my time flying for the Navy for anything but I realized this (what I stated above) early on and got off active duty when the opportunity presented itself.

[@allenmetz3293]

Y’all talk about leadership and it makes me wonder too. I’m in flight school about to graduate with a 4 year degree currently just waiting on my commercial checkride and I’m done graduated. I emailed apparently the only Air Force recruiter for pilots in the southeast not totally sure on this fact. And he was only concerned on when I graduated. I told him I can’t give him an exact date because I’m waiting on a date for my commercial checkride from a DPE and I explained that to him we went back and forth a bit but he just wanted to know when I graduated and he then stopped responding to me cuz I can’t give him an exact time I graduate

[@hugoglenn9741]

He trying to fill his year end fiscal quota (ends Sept 30) before he can PCS to a new assignment. Don’t talk to that recruiter fool. Go rush a good Reserve or Guard unit. Even if you don’t get hired you will learn a lot about the military. They all have been there and done that

[@arnaudgerard1971]

Old airframes?

[@jeffsmithist]

I retired from AAL five years ago. $498K and worked nine days a month…

[@hugoglenn9741]

And how much Federal income tax did you have to pay? I’m sure democrats said you didn’t pay your fair share even though you were a union member.

[@mattalford3932]

We've been at war for the last 20 years. Do you know how long that is? I was old enough to serve right before 9/11. But im legally blind. My brother served 3 tours about 10 years after I was old enough. My kids are now old enough that they could have served in the same conflict right at the end. You couldn't draft this generation into the military. They saw how it treats people when they come home.

[@mattalford3932]

Amd I'm a military brat. I've lived on multiple bases growing up.

[@dmac7128]

Why are there shortages across all the services? It comes down to toxic leadership with a backwards incentive structure, and the increasing footprint of defense contractors involved in the day to day maintenance of equipment and training. You have contractors performing more work that used to done by servicemembers a few years ago. Why would any highly proficient technician or maintainer that is not being recognized and promoted, continue in that job when they can do the same job as a contractor and do the job they were trained for and make a hell of a lot of money doing it? If someone told me if it was worth it to do your 20 years ten years ago, I would have said yes. Now that answer is no.

[@user-ex3zn5yq4r]

🤣🤣Another reason why I got out. I served both Army and Air Force Active Duty and Reserve in combat and medical MOS/ AFSC. Yea no thanks!!

[@Snookynibbles]

I will never fly on a fully-automated, “no pilot” airplane!

[@bocefusmurica4340]

When you say you don’t trust the leadership, who are you referring to? Colonels? Generals? Joint Chiefs? President? I’m a civilian. I honestly don’t know.

[@USAFraimius]

Some LtCols, a good chunk of Colonels, most Generals, and almost all politicians, would probably be a majority answer. The higher you go, the less connected the leadership is, and those seeking rank tend to hide their problems whenever the higher ups visit.

[@hugoglenn9741]

The go to sanswer in the military on Education Command testing is always D:) All of the Above

[@nfchance76]

I've heard from several the people that have served that have the same issues with leadership. Instead of getting rid of bad people a lot of the branches seem to want to fail people up. This is a problem that seems to have been a long time in the making and unfortunately given our current political system there is no solution to it. We would need both sides of the political aisle to come together to systematically change the entire system and I and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[@isodoublet]

People failing up in the military is nothing new, really. It sort of ebbs and flows so sometimes it may seem better and sometimes worse, but really it's a problem that has existed throughout all of human history.

[@USAFraimius]

Partly, because it is career "ending" to fail. Once someone fails an assignment, their chance of moving up is essentially zero. So, no one on the leadership track "fails" (yeah, they might actually fail, but holding them accountable isn't accepted). In the past, you could be relieved of command, go succeed somewhere else and maybe get a second shot. How many commanders these days get fired for performance? Almost none. Those who get fired do so via misconduct (aka making Big Blue look bad).

[@my-yt-inputs2580]

Funny how nothing has changed over the years. I remember when I first became and enlisted aviator(1982 flight engineer on C-130s) and listening to the pilots complain. Back then the AF had something called the Blue Chip which of course ended up failing and pissing off the Os. Then going to an RTU where the pilots went for additional training before they exited for the airlines. I remember when the AF came up with a way to help retain aviators.....issue them leather flying jackets. What a joke.

[@crazypetec-130fe7]

130 FE was the best job I ever had, '03-'09. I would have done it even if I didn't get my leather jacket.

[@hugoglenn9741]

I guess you never flew in the Cadillac, C-17@@crazypetec-130fe7

[@ronaldkonkoma4356]

Do the Navy and the Air Force have the same cancer rate for retired pilots?

[@Snoop_Dugg]

They don’t get in contact with fuel so I’m not sure

[@jiceBERG]

They won't solve the issue, it's not money. It's culture and lifestyle that need to change, leadership doesn't understand the root cause to their problem. So they throw money our government doesn't have to solve a problem we know the answer to

[@tomwilson1006]

$600k for 12 years? They’re outta they’re friggin minds! NO FN WAY!

[@galacticgamer9764]

Sir, are you still a F-18 pilot?

[@CWLemoine]

I have not flown the Hornet since 2016.

[@arnaudgerard1971]

Is there a reason, the leadership, the system, the politics, ... is so ... "bad"?

[@MrTakin00]

So it even worth joining and be trapped in a 10+ year contract with horrible upper leadership.

[@Snoop_Dugg]

I guess it’s the easiest way to learn to fly…

[@gamerdude7481]

If theyre that desperate to keep pilots they must be all kinds of hungry for new pilots. That idea is starting to renew my want to become a pilot

[@Recklessness97]

While there's a need for pilots, there is NO shortage of qualified pilot candidates. The vast majority of pilots come from military academies such as The Naval academy, Air Force Academy, etc. The smaller remainder of pilots are from OCS, OTS, etc, to top off the pilot pool if needed... The problem is they can't train new pilots fast enough. Many students are waiting 6+ months to get into training. Part of the problem is not enough aircraft and not enough quality instructor pilots to teach students because they leave for greener pasture.

[@hugoglenn9741]

As a taxpayer you should have no desire to train a new pilot at $8+ a pop instead of retaining what you have. They shut down Willy and Reece so the AF doesn’t have the training throughput they need if they can retain.

[@ItzRetro2019]

I want to apply to the airforce but unfortunately they require you to have a bachelors degree.

[@tomalcock620]

You only need a Degree if you plan to be an Officer.

[@ItzRetro2019]

@@tomalcock620 i was told in order to be a pilot you need a degree

[@Recklessness97]

Hit the books and study for the degree if you're within the age window. Even if you're not you may potentially get a age wavier. Just make sure you go to college for a STEM major and get good grades if you want a pilot spot for Navy, Air Force, or Coast Guard, it's competitive. The Marines not as much, just make sure you're a physical training god and have any degree. The Marines are guaranteeing pilot slots before OCS. Only the question is how much flying you'll actually do after 0-3 in any of the branches, it all eventually turns into desk flying and fuck-fuck games.

[@fightingfalconfan]

The TV show Seal Team touches on this. Navy wants personnel to keep slots filled. But what they don't understand and they haven't in years is they don't seem to care too much about supporting the war fighter. Weather your boots on the ground, boots in the air (pilots) it gets to the point where you get run down and complacent that you stop caring about what your doing. Followed by the military leaders who tell you "go over to that country and take care of business". Need vacation to basically relax and collect yourself; do something different. Private sector don't have the stress level that the military has. Especially in the last two years or so with a few countries at each others throats threatening war or Russia telling us if we "support Ukraine it will be considered an act of war and we will go after you too." Another thing is military gets paid little. Enlisted are paid peanuts in the bi-monthly paycheck. Sure you get allowances for housing/food while living on base/post/NAS but when you have a family to care for and want to live off base it can be challenging.

[@paulblack5883]

Throwing money at the problem is a typical move the military does..seen it done in my 21 years in the Air Force..people don't want to stay in despite the bonus offered to reenlist..They get a few takers mostly folks doing their 1st reenlistment, anyone else if they want to go they pass on it and jump ship.

[@Not_So_Weird_in_Austin]

Does that require covid jabs?

[@scottlink183]

Sign me up!

[@joelrunyan1608]

All of the services are gonna have to pay better doing forward

[@utmosdemos3645]

It's more than just pay. As a matter of fact pay is the least of it.

[@ezrhino1803]

Lets talk about what makes a good leader in your mind in the current military..

[@CWLemoine]

We have many times.

[@hugoglenn9741]

Anyone with a World War I frame of mind. We started getting politically correct by the end of WWII. I could name several examples

[@ingoos]

just yesterday i saw video saying that employees don't quit because of their jobs, they quit because of bad leadership. just saying.

[@dylanpark4284]

It’s funny hearing officers complain about this shit when their QOL is always better than enlisted. Imagine how we feel 🤣

[@dylanpark4284]

That said, keep up the great content, Mover. Love your channel.

[@telesniper2]

amen! There's tons of people out there who would kill for a shot at doing what they do and here they are whining about piddly $hit like "oh my boss yelled at me". LOL! The Army got it right with their warrant officer pilot program. That's what they should do for fixed wing aviation. Instead of keeping it open to elite spoiled brat college kids who have lived pampered, sheltered lives and can't hack it.

[@Just_Klaatu]

I don’t accept Chucky Cheese tokens.

[@curly_bill1629]

Forgot to add, that was in 1975.

[@corvetteworldrob8586]

I can tell you all the things said here about the BS in the Navy/Air Force Leadership and bureaucracy, it's all the same for the US Army too. I called it quits after 9 years because I was going to end up in Leavenworth for battery on an officer if the madness continued for me. I didn't care how much money they would have offered, I was done, so were SO MANY others at the time. And the results speak for themselves today. WHAT WAS THE POINT OF MY DEPLOYMENT TO AFGHANISTAN, a deployment that cost me my Law Enforcement career, but cost a lot more for so many others, just for them to throw it all away for political expediency. Same for Iraq in 2009. The leadership for the last 20 years ruined at least 2 generations of warfighters with this garbage bootlicker madness, covid, leftist politics, and lost wars. I can write a book about it, I'm so sickly pissed with it all.

[@danilomarvel5657]

just compare what MEDICAL DOCTORS EARN yearly to what pilots eartn and than you will see why the shortage in aviators numbers... i mean , they are diferent professions but have quite similar selection standards to enter the carrer, obviously medical doctos have even higher grades but you understand what i sayd

[@Snoop_Dugg]

But they finish school at 30-35, work 12-16hr days unless they’re a specialist. The hourly rate goes down quite a bit when you look at it from that perspective.

[@fw1421]

Airlines offer a better life than getting shot at. And why put your life on the line for another country? Americas political leadership doesn’t give a dam about our military members unless they are getting shot at. Serve your country in combat,separate or retire and once you’re out the door you don’t exist. It takes an act of god to get into a VA facility because so many have closed down and the ones left are understaffed. All Congress cares about is the hardware. Have to satisfy the Military Industrial Complex Complexes needs. Keep those jobs in my district or state.

[@hugoglenn9741]

You forgot the VA will also kill you. My dad cheaped out and went to the VA instead of using his tricare retiree insurance. After a year they couldn’t figure anything out. Then he went to Portsmouth Naval for a checkup with his cardiac doctor and he was immediately referred for a chest X-ray. Within 2 hours the Navy doctors determine he had Stage 4 lung cancer that started somewhere else. It was obvious even to a trained Cardiac Doctor. The VA will kill you in a second. Use your Tricare if you have it you cheap bastards

[@jonathanregan4344]

To me it’s insane that our Government can spend and spend and spend on equipment but never want to raise the pay of the people using the equipment aka pilots or maintenance crew, then wonder why they have shortages. But we gotta make sure the defense contractor gets there 5 billion so there higher ups can get insane bonuses for the year. Just so crazy to me, like pulling teeth to get military members pay raised like even extra couple thousand a year.

[@uwekonnigsstaddt524]

That money (billions) that go to defense companies (Lockheed Martin, Boeing, etc), are then donated to the politicians that approved that budget…..for their reelection. There is your money.

[@Etha-xi8ei]

What is your opinion on this video? It is a replay of a MiG-31s radar screen played on desktop. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKmkeImDidmEmJI&t It (ALLEGEDLY) shows the MiG-31 splashing a Ukrainian jet with an R-37M. I know you're probably tired of hearing about the "muh hypersonic missile" buzzword that gets spammed everywhere nowadays, but this genuinely seems like footage of a BVR engagement. Potentially the first recorded BVR kill in history?

[@telesniper2]

All good points, but it's an organization probably beyond redemption. And if you REALLY want to be cynical, no amount of money would entice you to stay. Because whatever they can give, they're powerful enough to take away (like he said at 6:25). They do this to enlisted sailors. They have quotas to fill of how many prosecutions to make in order to balance their books by clawing back benefits. Do you REALLY think that 40% of discharges are OTH or lower because "gee there's just that many dirtbags". Nah.

[@indy500tabasco8]

😊😊😊😊I don't like hangovers😊😊😊😊

[@PhuzzPhactor]

Bump

[@hansangb]

Shouldn't it be Drone Flyers and not Drone Pilots? Just a pet peeve of mine I guess. Like Chiropractors calling themselves "Doctor" That too is a pet peeve of mine.

[@hugoglenn9741]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Drone Pilots. To fly in FAA airspace and International airspace (Even a drone) you have to be a qualified pilot. You are interacting with other traffic. The AF has battled this for years looking for a short course.

[@hugoglenn9741]

Chiropractors are quack and drone pilots are pilots.

[@angrymancunian]

I would do it for 100k...

[@hugoglenn9741]

After your first 30 hour duty day flying around multiple times zones you will rethink that and wouldn’t last a day afterwards

[@viperdriver82]

Robin Olds….

[@skychaser59]

You don't need to be an Officer to fly. Start training Senior NCMs!

[@hugoglenn9741]

Wrong, these are B-2s, F-22s and C-17s not P-51s. We just had a marine punch out of F-35 while it flew off and eventually crashed ($100 Million down the drain). You think a guy who decided he didn’t need anything beyond high school algebra is going to do better?

[@hugoglenn9741]

BTW do you even need algebra or a 2.0 to graduate high school nowadays

[@skychaser59]

A degree does not teach situational awareness and common sense. Your born with it. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates , Nikola Tesla, Larry Ellison didn't have degrees. Colleges don't teach anymore they indocrinate. Thanks to DEI ability isn't the key driver it used to be.@@hugoglenn9741

[@1mouseman]

Pay them what it takes, and take care of them. Better than them going to China, RAF style for a payday.

[@bobbyraejohnson]

81 million votes 😂😂😂

[@mergeform]

Universal deception to deceive the universal enemy. Which agency is really good at deceiving people?

[@bombsaway6340]

Wow, almost two years pay as an airline pilot. Money is important, but not the reason people get out. Was an airlift squadron commander, had a zero pilot retention rate, never had anyone leave because of money. Of course, the pay in the airlines was seen as a big plus. Most get out because they just wanted to be pilots. Not indoctrinated with the woke agenda, or to be staff officers.

[@hugoglenn9741]

Was Ops Group Exec at an AMW. My boss was 6 below to full bird set to be General with a 4 star sponsor. Super thin type A. Must have been stress because he shortly needed a heart stint. Grounded and could not make General (current pilot qual required for the slots he was up for). Next thing I know he’s groveling for a recommendation to the airlines from guys he thought weren’t “Team” players for leaving and had no respect. They had no respect for his small picture. That’s the exact problem with AF leadership. Zero future vision.

[@bombsaway6340]

@@hugoglenn9741 I know exactly the type you described.

[@augustsoomre4795]

Neljas Moosese raamat 6:Õnnistussõnad 22 Ja Issand rääkis Moosesega, öeldes: 23 „Räägi Aaroni ja ta poegadega ning ütle: Õnnistades Iisraeli lapsi, öelge neile nõnda: 24 Issand õnnistagu sind ja hoidku sind! 25 Issand lasku oma pale paista sinu peale ja olgu sulle armuline! 26 Issand tõstku oma pale sinu üle ja andku sulle rahu! 27 Nõnda pandagu minu nimi Iisraeli laste peale ja mina õnnistan neid!” Teine Ajaraamat 7:14 ja kui siis minu rahvas, kellele on pandud minu nimi, alandab ennast ja nad palvetavad ja otsivad minu palet ning pöörduvad oma kurjadelt teedelt, siis ma kuulen taevast ja annan andeks nende patu ning säästan nende maa. 15 Nüüd on mu silmad lahti ja mu kõrvad panevad tähele palvetamist selles paigas. 16 Nüüd olen ma valinud ja pühitsenud selle koja, et minu nimi oleks seal igavesti. Mu silmad ja mu süda on seal iga päev. Psalmid (Laulud)122:Palve Jeruusalemma hea käekäigu eest 1 Palveteekonna laul Taavetilt. Ma rõõmustasin, kui mulle öeldi: „Lähme Issanda kotta!” 2 Meie jalad seisid su väravais, Jeruusalemm. 3 Jeruusalemm, kes oled ehitatud nagu hästi kokkuliidetud linn, 4 kuhu läksid üles suguharud, Issanda suguharud tunnistuseks Iisraelile tänama Issanda nime. 5 Sest sinna on seatud aujärjed kohtumõistmiseks, aujärjed Taaveti kojale. 6 Paluge rahu Jeruusalemmale! Käigu hästi nende käsi, kes sind armastavad! 7 Rahu olgu su müüride vahel, hea käekäik su kuninglikes kodades! 8 Oma vendade ja oma sõprade pärast tahan ma nüüd öelda: Rahu sinule! 9 Issanda, meie Jumala koja pärast tahan ma otsida sulle head. Jesaja 30:Issand tõotab oma rahvale armu anda 18 Ja ometi ootab Issand, et teile armu anda, ja jääb kõrgeks, et teie peale halastada, sest Issand on õiguse Jumal, õndsad on kõik, kes teda ootavad. Jeesus 36:10 Kogu kõik Jaakobi suguharud ja olgu nad pärijad nagu muistegi! 11 Halasta, Issand, rahva peale, kellele on antud sinu nimi, ja Iisraeli peale, keda pead esmasündinuks! 12 Halasta oma pühamu linna, Jeruusalemma, oma hingamispaiga peale! 13 Täida Siion sinu ülistusega ja oma rahvas sinu auhiilgusega! 14 Anna tunnistus oma esmalooduile ja tee tõeks, mis sinu nimel on ennustatud! 15 Tasu neile, kes sinu peale loodavad, ja sinu prohvetid jäägu usaldusväärseks! 16 Kuule, Issand, nende palvet, kes sind anuvad, sinu rahvale kuuluva Aaroni õnnistuse pärast, 17 et kõik, kes maailmas elavad, tunneksid, et sina oled Issand, igavene Jumal! Baaruk 5: Sest Jumal juhib Iisraeli rõõmuga oma auhiilguse valgusesse, halastuse ja õigusega, mis temalt tuleb.” Saalomoni Tarkuseraamat 11: Halastamise põhjus 23 Sina halastad aga kõigi peale, sest et sa suudad kõike, ja vaatad mööda inimeste pattudest, et nad meelt parandaksid. 24 Sest sina armastad kõike, mis olemas on, ega põlga midagi, mida sa oled teinud, sest sina ei olegi loonud midagi, mida sa ise vihkaksid. 25 Sest kuidas saaks midagi püsida, kui sina ei tahaks, või kuidas säiliks see, keda sina ei ole kutsunud? 26 Sina aga säästad kõiki, sellepärast et nad on sinu omad, Issand, hingede armastaja. Estri raamatu lisad 3:2 „Issand, Issand, kõigeväeline Kuningas! Sinul on meelevald kõige üle ja ei ole kedagi, kes võiks sulle vastu astuda, kui sina tahad Iisraeli päästa! 6 Ja nüüd, Issand, Jumal ja Kuningas, Aabrahami Jumal, hoia oma rahvast, sest meid jälgitakse, et meid hävitada, ja neil on himu teha lõpp sellele, mis on algusest peale olnud sinu pärisosa! 7 Ära põlga oma pärisosa, kelle sa enesele lunastasid Egiptusest! 8 Kuule minu palvet ja ole armuline oma pärisosale! Pööra meie lein pidurõõmuks, et elavaina lauldes ülistaksime sinu nime, Issand, ja ära sule nende suud, kes sind kiidavad!” 9 Kogu Iisrael hüüdis kõigest jõust, sest neil oli surm silma ees.

[@corvanphoenix]

WTF!?

[@FLMKane]

Wish they'd let me be a pilot lol. I'd work for food and lodging if even if I were stuck flying transports

[@hugoglenn9741]

What until your first 30 hour duty day

[@user-bm3vs2re7q]

1

[@H8FUL4IM]

There is no reward for service, it's only for the chosen few!

[@IkeReedy]

First