Air Force Pilot Shortage and Delays

Mover, Gonky, and Wombat discuss an article covering the Air Force pilot shortage from recruitment to production to retention. Check out The Mover and Gonky Show Mondays at 8PM ET LIVE. • The Mover and Gonky Show
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[@laurab.9318]

I love how this concluded with Mover trying to be reasonable, Wombat ranting, and Gonky whispering "Yellow lights!" 🤣 Awesome.

[@CWLemoine]

Isn't that standard by now? 😂

[@laurab.9318]

@@CWLemoine Yup! 🤣

[@tuskegee87]

But you're right even with active duty now we still have this issue. I'm at a Viper wing and everyone is so indecisive or they say one thing then come back later with something else so they don't look bad or hurt someones feelings... Also..."aircrafts"...that is all.

[@qcan8468]

GE engineer here. The T-38’s two engines, the GE J85, was designed in our Lynn, MA facility as an engine for a practice decoy. It performed so well that someone suggested trying it in the new trainer Lockheed was designing in the late 1950’s. We are still manufacturing new parts today, especially blades and vanes. The HPC blades are steel in the T-58 and titanium in the F-5.

[@billywrench2610]

The J85 makes a good jet dragster engine, too. Just sayin'.

[@paulholmes672]

One of my best friends was an F-111 pilot his whole career, and they tried really hard to shove him into a staff position SOMEWHERE, but he kept working the system to keep flying. At the end, 20 years, he is the High Timer for the F-111, over 5000 hrs but of course he was never promoted past Captain and he had to get out. The important bit is I would follow him into hell as he was mission oriented and no BS. The points C.W. was making about requiring so many non mission requirements are true throughout the military, especially in the last couple of decades. It doesn't matter if you can fix or fly airplanes, you have to fill your evaluation report's boxes and bullet points, which requires as many items that have nothing to do with fixing or flying as possible. During one rating period (a year) my son received a (rare) Achievement medal on a deployment, but because he was out of town (DEPLOYMENT!) and didn't have a community service bullet, he was given an average EPR. The rater looked at it as a Total Airman requirement for community service, hence he was not eligible for a higher rating (and promotion). Bottom line is our military is being turned into a social experiment for all of these progressive administrations, and they wonder why people keep saying no. Don't get me started on requiring non-essential vaccines for the most healthy people in the world OR GET OUT! When the next war hits, helping "people cross the street" won't win in combat.

[@tomwilson1006]

The idiotic administrations and their woke ideology is literally castrating the military. Our near-peers are literally laughing at us, and god forbid we get into a major shooting war, I don’t think the American public is ready for the amount of casualties the US is going to incur. It’s time to go back to the basics as far as our military is concerned. Unfortunately it will take another Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to happen.

[@tangent.arc38618]

how did they try to shove him into staff?

[@yolkiandeji7649]

The PME discussion board thing is exactly what I had to do in college. Weekly discussion boards, two replies to your classmates.

[@timo1642]

Former maintenance guy here VFA-136 1986-1989. I have great memories of pilots helping out with maintenance. Some of those guys got very good at panel removal and safety wiring.

[@strigon2109]

I had a weird experience regarding this. I graduated college a couple years ago after completing four years of Air Force rotc. I had received a pilot slot, but found out I had been medically disqualified at my flight physical due to a failed lung test. I appealed the decision, retook the test, and the results came out normal. However, they couldn't reinstate me because of the training pipeline backups. I can't complain too much though because I didn't have to pay back my scholarship.

[@CWLemoine]

There's always the Guard or Reserve.

[@strigon2109]

​@@CWLemoineI'm looking at those options now and trying to get more flight hours

[@Gribardson]

Good discussion that applies on multiple levels and jobs both in military and civilian world. I was in back in the 90s and our ship had terrible reenlistment rates. Civilian world, lots of job hopping. My old team has lost 50% and they could only fill with temps - and we are a Fortune 25 company.

[@soxsizzle123]

People don't quit jobs, they quit bosses.

[@CWLemoine]

Valid.

[@erikallder8199]

I can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear officers acknowledge that the "up -or-out" advancement system is a problem and needs to go, as well as acknowledging the problem of changing things that don't need to be changed just to get FITREP bullets! Interesting that the Navy has ended the PTS (Perform to Serve) system in the wake of the current recruiting crisis. Another HUGE problem for the U.S. military is the absolutely ridiculous number of flag officers in all services. In 2017 there were ~ 900 flag officers and ~ 1.3 million active duty service members. This is a flag officer to troop ratio of ~ 1:1400. In WWII - when the U.S. had 12 million troops and was fighting a war against near-peer adversaries in two theaters - that ratio was ~ 1:6000. Pay grade creep is real and it is a problem, especially when you consider that every one of those flag officers also "needs" an entourage of subordinate lackeys. Take the Navy, for instance. There is no good reason that the CO of a destroyer MUST be an O-5 and the CO of a cruiser MUST be an O-6. This is a result of the aforementioned up-or-out mentality where everybody needs to have the opportunity to be the next MCPON or CNO.

[@gregorymaupin6388]

In all my time in the Navy I only had two skipper’s that I would do anything for and oddly enough one of them still talks to me and many others, the thing that makes me happy to call him skipper and friend at this point is he deals with so much. The skipper that I just referred to his wife has Alzheimer’s and yet he still talks to us much because he loves us and he said, “We’re family and he knows if he said he needs us we would come to his aid immediately”, now he commanded our squadron from 86 to 89.

[@ThomisticAmerican13FOX]

Mover talking about Staff College was amazing. That is just like nearly all civilian colleges and universitities. They cant actually think. They only regurgitate talking points and slogans.

[@TheBabins]

Yes! Every part of your discussion mirrored my experience of working for a fortune 5 company.

[@billvs6505]

You got it right when you pointed out "servant leadership." Few people knew what it meant a decade ago, and fewer know what it means now. Too often people are promoted based on technical skills while ignoring interpersonal skills. It hurts every organization.

[@michaelloforti7027]

AF is repeating 1990-1995 time era similar to today’s backlog entering UPT. Back then it was called the “late rated” pilot program where the AF placed future pilots into other career fields temporarily. It created a pilot “bathtub” for those year groups which impacted the AF nearly 10 years later. Today’s delays are similar; but as you mention, there are several issues needing attention (i.e. production, retention, etc.).

[@hugoglenn9741]

They made a mistake and “BRAC”ed Reece and Willy. When they needed to increase production they will never admit mistakes so they opened Valdosta WTFO.

[@regprewitt7637]

I was a UPT stud in class 75-06 at Reese, Lubbock, TX. The oil embargo of '73 delayed us from graduation and commissioning in June '73 until beginning UPT in Jan-May '74. I worked for IBM at NIH in Bethesda, MD, until our class started in April '74. Classmates in aviation and other career fields, including many with 3 & 4 year ROTC scholarships, we released from active duty with no commitment. While I was in T-38s our flight commander announced at the morning brief that he'd talked to a USN buddy from Vietnam that morning who was his equivalent in A-4s at Kingsville. The Navy had just dropped the bottom half of some unknown number of classes in the aviator pipeline. Most were expected to be released from active duty. Four years later I'm back at Reese as a Tweet IP. We were trip turning, 3 flights excluding sims, 7 days a week. My record was 87 days straight. My first class as a flight commander I had 55 students and 13 IPs for a summer class which has no extra days for anything like the rest of the year. I should have had 20 IPs. Three years later I was a flight examiner at PIT, the school for pilots to become Tweet IP. I was going to make major a year early and I was about to enter the assignment process and the airlines were just starting to hire after 5+ years of furloughs. I wanted to stay in training command or, possibly, try for a U-2/TR-1 assignment a friend from Reese, now in the U-2, had been trying get me to do. The USAF personnel center was a few blocks down the road. I'd been told I was going back to tankers regardless of what I wanted to do because of pilot shortages. I put in my separation request that day. A young major from headquarters ATC, now AETC, came down to talk to 3 of us who were getting out, one a fellow Tweet FE the other a former Tweet FE at Reese who was back after another flying assignment. The 4 star wanted to know why we were getting out. My buddy could have had any assignment he wanted and the other had been offered a job at an A-10 Reserve unit. I think Wombat's admiral came from the same swamp as our 4 star in 1984. He only cared that he had an impending retention problem that would pile on a current pilot shortage. Neither the personnel wienie nor the ATC HQ major could see that the only reason we were getting out was that we had no control over what we were doing. We'd endured and thrived working endlessly and only wanted to fly. In my case sending me back to fill an IP slot that would be filled by a pilot who didn't want to fly Tweets and 8 other pilots would separate instead of go to ATC. That's a long story to say that nothing has changed since 1973. I suspect it's been this way long before then.

[@sithticklefingers7255]

I can’t imagine working that hard to get a slot just to be handed walking papers back to a desk job in civilian life. Those are certainly some unforeseeable circumstances you dealt with, but dismissing people before they’ve even had a chance to prove their merit? They’d have to drag me in my flight suit out of the classroom in a burlap sack 😂

[@regprewitt7637]

@@sithticklefingers7255 It isn't a matter of being dismissed. It was several things converging that created an excess of pilots in a system unable to respond quickly or adequately. Vietnam ended in Jan '73, OPEC cut the oil supplies creating a worldwide oil shortage, congress cut funding and manning in all of the services, and the pilot pipeline is a long thin tube that works only when it's pressurized. I signed a contract with the USAF in August 1970 for a three year ROTC scholarship. If I kept my grades up, graduated with a degree, and could qualify for a pilot slot I would be able to compete for said slot. There are no guarantees. None except that I would serve 6 years at the pleasure of the government if I met my obligations. At least our class got flying assignments not drones. Being the 2nd copilot getting a takeoff and landing every 90 days sucks but it isn't a trailer. Our IPs had similar unexpected interruptions in their flying careers. All but 3 of the T-38 IPs in our section's flight were Vietnam vets. The 3 were FAIPS. There was all of one flying slots available to the IPs in the entire command for Fiscal Year 1975, the year I graduated. An aide to one of a general at HQ ATC got it. Every other IP went to a ground job that was to last 3 years. Many were pulled back to flying slots after two years when the overreaction was obvious and a huge pilot shortage was barreling down on the USAF. Cranking up pilot training again doesn't happen straight away. It takes years. I was one of the guys pulled back to ATC during the beginning of an immense buildup in UPT. It's systemic, situational, and will always exist in this kind of system. Airlines are no better at managing their manning. There are a lot of really smart people out there who should have come up with a solution if one is possible. The same thing has been happening in the USAF (all services really and not just aviation) after every conflict since 1945 and every economic shock to the airlines. I totally agree with Mover that leadership deficiencies don't help and often increase the pain. The leadership of the DO (Director of Operations), O-6, and the squadron commanders was the worst I'd ever experienced. Something like 75% of the IPs in the T-38 PIT squadron got out and went to the airlines. The T-37 squadron didn't have that problem because they all were younger with remaining commitments. Then again, I have to thank some unnamed O-6 up in rated manning of the personnel squirrel cage for being willing to lose 8 pilots instead of giving one guy the job he wants. The 4 star is actually responsible. That decision pushed me into a great airline career I would never have considered otherwise. The major who interviewed us said the general would not be "blackmailed" by three captains who weren't getting the assignments we wanted. Hymn...hymn.... you know the rest.d

[@tomwilson1006]

All that taxpayer money wasted on training pilots just to try to make them ride a desk after a few years. You would think they’d figure that out by now. Let the boys fly!!!

[@M1Tommy]

Training for management over leadership , one reason I left the Navy. That was long ago , but I hear echoes here. Thanks y'all for being straight forward about matters , professionally .

[@highace10]

Why would being exposed to maintenance be a let down? Aircrew exposure to the coal face would have great benefits. The biggest being an appreciation for the work that is carried out to get the jets in the air.

[@crazypetec-130fe7]

I was 20 years active duty USAF, and I remember a total of 2 honest servant leaders. One was my squadron commander who wrote to my parents when he found out my dad had a heart attack when I was in Iraq, and sent Dad a squadron RMO, serial #01, which I still have. The other was a 2Lt maintenance officer who thought it wasn't right to have grave shift workers coming in to monthly commander's call during the day when we usually sleep, so she gathered all the info and came into our hangar after midnight to share everything we needed to know, and she covered everything in about 15 minutes instead of the hour the rest of the unit needed. We loved her for that. But she only got to do it once because our rule #1 breaking MX SQ CC decided he wanted all "his people" to come in en masse and get lectured by him personally, no matter how bad that messed up our sleep schedules. Graves is the shift that gets the most work done on the planes, and then we were trying to do it without getting a good day's sleep; what could possibly go wrong?

[@jonpattison]

IMHO US Marine Corps NCO school should be a mandatory class for high school. When I went through there were 15 points: "praise in public reprimand in private", "feed your people before you eat", etc. Simple and to the point leadership.

[@michaelblaker2334]

Hahahahaaaaa, speaking in the context of Air Command and staff college and the Blackboard Discussion Group, sounds exactly like a senior leader course I went to on the E side, yes a complete joke!

[@andreaciccone5794]

Really interesting especially the last part where you guys discuss the importance of leadership and that applies everywhere, not just in the military world

[@shannono6051]

Great Jobs on these edits!

[@akrickm1]

Mover just got to watch this. You’re comments on leadership are right on it is also true in the private industry.

[@Corsair37]

The discussion about leadership reminded me very much of my rule of thumb for my leaders when I was in. I had one captain that fit that to a T - was literally a leader that I would have stormed the gates of Hell with, even if I knew we were doomed, because I knew he would have his reasons for it. I was a staff corps officer (Supply), and I applied that rule of thumb/appraisal to all the line officers I would have gone into battle with, and he was one of the few that met that criteria.

[@jc3_nft875]

box checking and banality for the win

[@alanhirayama4592]

We have perfectly good military pilots in Mover and Gonky who the Air Force chose to release, then the Air Force says they don't have enough pilots...what the heck!

[@user-gt5me3nf6b]

inorder for pilots to leave and work for airlines instead dont they need commercial pilot licenses? I heard that the airforce doesnt give qualifications like CPL And PPL. Maybe its just a thing for the RAF because thats how it is in Britiain

[@michaelmoses8745]

​@@user-gt5me3nf6b As far as I can tell, the United States Air Force can, and often does, issue a restricted ATP at 750 hours total time and 200 hours of cross country flight. You must build time towards an unrestricted ATP to sit as the PIC in a commercial airplane, but it's at least a government funded leg up. You can at least serve as a co pilot. I'm not fully aware of the military to civilian conversion rules, but I believe the airlines also give 0.2 to 0.3 hours per sortie. Once again, I don't know everything about how the rules apply. It's not a thing I think about a lot.

[@josephpadula2283]

I had a friend go to the Naval academy because he did not get into Air Force Academy . He was an Air Force brat grew up at based , and golf courses, all Over the world . When he graduated they allowed him to be commissioned Air Force and he flew for them . He was miserable due to the culture Vs the Navy …..

[@S.Matt240]

My nephew just got his job yesterday as a CSO.

[@S.Matt240]

We had to go on a zoom link to hear what he had got chosen for. He wanted to drive the plane but he isn't complaining at all. At least he gets to fly

[@CWLemoine]

Congrats!

[@crazypetec-130fe7]

@@S.Matt240 I hear that. I retired with over 2000 hours in the C-130 flight engineer seat. That's the best job I ever had.

[@JulietMike96042]

Doesn't help that Internationals get priority over US students for T-38 slots. I've been sitting casual at Vance for a few months now and there's been two classes in a row with only 1-2 jet slots since Saudis/Italians/Swedes come here from ENJJPT and get pushed through over Active Duty. Unless you're gaurd or reserve, Vance/Columbus/Laughlin pretty much exist to produce heavy pilots only

[@CWLemoine]

Wow.

[@brandongriffin79]

That’s why when I get in I’m pushing for enjjpt. Cause I want fighters. I’m applying to this rated board coming up next month so hopefully I get a slot and then eventually end up in enjjpt

[@brandongriffin79]

That’s ridiculous tho

[@Lucrativesoldier]

I watch you for aviation reasons, but everything you guys said is 100% correct. This is bigger than aviation or the armed forces. And everyone is using AI to do these college assignments. There is no more critical thinking. It’s scary the direction we are heading.

[@PaulNat360]

i'm a big fan of the t38, f5b and f5f... collected a lot of 1/72 scale model kits of this plane

[@bcluett1697]

I always thought it must be very different to handle a jet that operates intuitively after so many hours, then to move on to one that flies itself except for in close combat. Completely different styles let alone airframes. I agree the trainer should at least simulate the end jets mission of getting up and operating combat computers on a smaller slower scale. I wonder if something like an A-10 would be a better trainer.

[@brandongriffin5602]

lol no, the A-10 is too advanced to be a trainer.

[@thestimp1]

I'm an enlisted reservist with a masters, with a commercial pilot rating and started hours on jets/g200 trying to go officer/pilot, and its like pulling fucking teeth. The system is setup to fail pretty much.

[@CWLemoine]

Have you tried milrecruiter.com?

[@thestimp1]

@@CWLemoine I have, but its still being a headache, I've heard a wait time as long as 18 months as well!

[@marktisdale7935]

The "yellow lights" at the end explained everything.

[@dmac7128]

Its not just the aviation community, I've seen it in the surface community of the Navy. All of the JO's I have known that were "servant leaders" were not the ones to be promoted and ended up leaving the military. But the ones with all the "checks in the boxes" get promoted even though they are terrible at managing and dealing with people. You also see that with senior enlisted types.

[@yodaisgod2]

Did we just see Wombat’s “Get off my lawn!” moment? 😂

[@hel8686]

Im prior services no BS yet, but i am an Power Plant technician working on Airframe. I passed army SIFT got DQ on something that was redacted by state general. Im Limbo'd in progression.

[@ethanhiggins4887]

I cant imagine the transition training involved to go from a T-38 to an F-35... the flying itself is completely different plus the absolutely insane difference in avionics and weapon delivery

[@Ken_Koonz]

Shoot three months of waiting is nothing. I was casual for 9 months as a command post controller and my wife worked in the personnel section. I have a casual working for me right now who won't report to ENJJPT for over a year and a half.

[@1jbunceiii]

I have a coworker that just got back from the FBI national academy, they taught that servant leadership is bad, not the best way to lead an organization.

[@josephpadula2283]

My solution to the leadership issues? Make them watch the movie 12 o’clock high when there was real problems and then watch the old TV show version every week for 4 years . No parts, no fighter cover , 19 percent chance every mission you’re not coming back becoming Pow or dead. 4 years from biplanes to jets only a slight exaggeration . Fear China not the Diversity instructor !

[@TheFirefox516]

Casuals aren’t getting to go to maintenance. UPT maintenance is civilian contractor only. At CAFB casuals are mostly going to security forces and doing gate duty. They also are usually assigned to work in the “transition office” and drug testing center. The backlog is getting even worse because the jets aren’t able to keep up and the new syllabus takes roughly 30% more resources per student to get them winged. UPT is a dumpster fire rn -current IFF stud

[@jatt4046]

They’re dropping certain planes straight from T-6 now too. Some won’t ever fly the T-1. T-6 to FTU/RTU.

[@mikem.s.1183]

Mover, I was going to add up to my comment with a link to BAE and a test pilot of the Eurofighter considerations on the tech aspect of it... but the comment was deleted? 😮

[@CWLemoine]

Links get held for review by KZbin.

[@mikem.s.1183]

@@CWLemoine Ok. Thank you.

[@budrohammbone2806]

It's a good thing they ran so many experienced aviators off a couple of years ago ! No wait......... They're saying there is a pilot SHORTAGE ! ? Could it be there is a 'Management' Problem ?

[@CWLemoine]

Gonky and I both begged to keep flying fighters.

[@MetroplexAerials]

@@CWLemoine A buddy of mine who was flying C-5s and not in a hurry to leave got kicked out over his convictions. The military should want people with convictions and character who can make tough decisions, but no, they want robots.

[@josephpadula2283]

I got kicked out over my convictions too. Got 5-7 years for robbing that liquor store!

[@agentjuiceaviation]

I'm pretty new to the aviation world in general so you'll have to excuse the ignorance, but do you think there's anything that could be done in the civilian/private sector to improve this problem in any way?

[@Barstool_cub_driver]

My question is: when are these hitting the civilian market so I can buy one?

[@Wannes_]

Weird ... In Belgium we had 100s of planes in the 1960s and plenty of pilots to fly them Now they've lowered the bar on the physicals to find enough pilots to crew a measly 34 F-35 and 7 A-400M !

[@Ilgenfixit80]

They fly T-38C at Sheppard for training, but at Whiteman AFB, they fly the T-38A. Wouldn't it be difficult to re-learn how to fly the same jet without the instruments you were trained to use?

[@CWLemoine]

Not really. Doesn’t take long to adapt.

[@paulholmes672]

@CWLemoine Says the guy that went from Lawn Darts to Rhino IIs., let alone cross service. Balls of Steel, you have, Sir!!!

[@babalonkie]

Hear about the confirmation that the RAF surveillance plane over the black sea last September was in fact "intentionally" shot at twice?

[@petrairene]

A lot of international partners have outsourced the training of their pilots in the USA, and on these planes. Are those affected, too?

[@gregorymaupin6388]

When is the new tactical trainer for the Air Force coming on line? The thing that strikes me odd is even the A-7E had a better seat than the T-38 and F-5.

[@billywrench2610]

If you're talking about the T-7, initial operating capability is "expected" to be in 2027. I wouldn't bet on it.

[@bureaucraticconsequences9311]

Ha, I wish everyone was working the flightline...here at Vance we have LTs working as spotters for drug testing 😂

[@Blackcloud_Garage]

Everything everyone said is 100% correct. Multiply it by two and you’ll get the Charlie Foxtrot of Army Aviation.

[@spets4265]

Can you elaborate a bit on this? I was looking to join AA via the 'street to seat' program and was wondering what woes I would be in for.

[@Blackcloud_Garage]

@@spets4265 I went through in 2010 so I'm sure things are different. Army Aviation training has "bubbles" in the calendar. You'll finish one course and then have to wait several months to start the next course. This means they'll stick you on a detail doing "busy work" during that time. It could be a few weeks or it could be six months, you never know. Your family will be asking about your graduation date but you won't know that until the last minute. Just the tip of the iceberg. Too much to type.

[@spets4265]

@@Blackcloud_Garage Thank you for the info. Would you say it is worthwhile to do to someone in their very early 30's?

[@Blackcloud_Garage]

@@spets4265 Sure. I was 30 when I did it. Just pay attention to all the prior NCO's in your class. They already know the "Big Green Weenie" and will help you learn.

[@spets4265]

@@Blackcloud_Garage Understood, thank you for your time and insight

[@hugoglenn9741]

Tweet was bang, T-38 was rocket ejection

[@insertoyouroemail]

We're in "weak men create bad times" times right now. Let's get this over with.

[@JCtheMusicMan_]

I blame the problem on a poorly written article because they don’t mention the key driver of training. The assessed needs of the military is the metric for demand. If they had that in the article, we would have something to measure or assess how bad the delays. Needs or requirements drive demand. If the needs are in the future then pilot training is on schedule. Just saying 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Domi39]

Man, if they're really short on pilots maybe I should go for it. I'm 27 though I don't know if that's enough time.

[@crazypetec-130fe7]

It's enough time. Go for it.

[@TheStowAway594]

Bureaucracy stifles speed, development & innovation. This is the same reason I don't want the government in charge of my healthcare or anything important, because they never get things done on time, and when it's done it's always low quality.

[@mattfgln]

Is a gap filler trainer coming while waiting for T-7 ?

[@CWLemoine]

Negative.

[@boblynch2802]

So the US Navy SSBN program started with nothing in 1955. About 1960 the Program went Operational about 1960 (5 years). Then the Navy built 41 submarines (the 41 for Freedom). Imagine that!

[@1jbunceiii]

Are foreign NATO pilots getting slots over USA pilots?

[@user-gt5me3nf6b]

yes

[@Runnifier]

Pilot shortage? They won’t let me join and I’m more than capable of flying.

[@JG20204]

Marines are the only branch meeting recruiting goals actually.

[@Recklessness97]

That's because the Marine Corps is one of the smallest branches in the U.S. military "Big Four" (meaning not counting the Space Force, Coast Guard, or National Guard). For example, Army has to recruit about x2 the Marine Corps to meet its recruiting goals. The Army recruitment goal was 60,000, Air Force 50,000, Navy 37,000, and the Marine Corps 33,000.

[@kyledellinger]

Until voters stop voting for politicians that espouse values and beliefs that detrimental to the proper functioning of a military, they will continue to get the military that they voted for. The whispered “yellow lights” at the end perfectly encapsulates the problem.

[@marcjohnson4884]

Buy T-50s , S211's, M346 and just fly.

[@sithticklefingers7255]

That won’t enrich the shareholders of lockmart and boing boing.

[@billywrench2610]

I would have gone with the T-50 also. Proven, off-the-shelf and ready to go

[@johnlonguil4157]

Why not use the L-39 temporarily?? Bunches of them on the market

[@Parawingdelta2]

In many western military forces, there seems to be a disproportionate focus on diversity, inclusivity, equity to the point of being discriminatory. Britain's Royal Air Force recently got itself in a mess over this sort of thing. I noticed Australia's national airline's recruiting policy refers to LGBTI+, reconciliation (Indigenous) and even comments on the need to remove the "stereotypes". I'm guessing there's no requirement for people that made the airline what it once was and created the enviable safety record it has to this day.

[@16sondra]

Why doesn’t the AF recruit 4 year aviation college students? I know students that have contacted the AF with no call back.

[@CWLemoine]

Who did they contact?

[@16sondra]

@@CWLemoine AF recruiter that said he would forward it on to the officer recruiter. Left message with officer recruiter as well. But said, it would be very hard to get in and fly planes. These are 21 yr old kids with commercial and CFI ratings. USAF is dis functional. That’s the real problem. Instead they would rather throw money to keep 50 yr olds in.

[@CWLemoine]

@@16sondra you’re conflating separate issues. Retention is a problem because the Air Force needs experienced pilots and leadership against the backdrop of massive airline salaries and hiring numbers. Recruitment isn’t really an issue, but production is. Recruitment can be an issue over time, but the real issue is that people think going to any Air Force recruiter is the answer. It isn’t. I’d recommend them going to bogidope.com and rushing guard units.

[@16sondra]

@@CWLemoine yea, contacted Georgia air national guard. Same result.

[@16sondra]

@@CWLemoine delta and United are constantly on campus recruiting. Never USAF. You’re saying recruitment isn’t a problem, I guess that explains it. Good luck to them.

[@kenh7181]

Yup. Change the OPR & promotion system. Create a pilot-only track. Quit pushing the mantra that new ideas are always better. Admit that even the best sim or VR goggle is not as good as a jet. Quit trying to cut costs or trying to shift costs from one part of the pipeline to another; admit that total taxpayer cost is the number and that anyone's problem is everyone's problem.

[@mouselt1]

I'm kind of reading between the lines here, but if I'm correct, Gonky and Mover were pretty much pushed out of the armed forces for some questionable reasons. Why not give you guys a good incentive to come back and fly and possibly train the newbees? The government is wasting a valuable resource by not allowing you guys to use your training and expertise for the defense of this country. This, I don't understand.

[@CWLemoine]

You are partially correct. We're both still in.

[@bodhionultimateride2660]

The problem is right at the end where you correct yourself saying “ or I’ll follow A woman”. We gotta stop being weak men and take the role that we are designed for

[@1919champ]

Painful listening to this to be honest knowing it’s all too true.

[@kessu83]

cloth shot...

[@chrisvandecar4676]

Lots to unpack I suppose but I will restrain myself. First, y’all a bunch of wet behind the ears whippersnappers! I was was corrupting students at Laughing AFB in the early mid 90’s. T-38A. Taught you how work through scenarios, quickly and calmly because it has NO fuel endurance! No time to wonder or ponder, whatever you were going to do needed to happen before you took off. The command knew the T-38 was old, wore out and obsolete then (a reason for the T-1). General Dynamics submitted a proposal to replace the 38 fleet with two seat Vipers (no gun, radar etc) for some ridiculous price of 3 or 4 million a copy. Ummmmm yeah the IP force was energenerized🤩

[@michaelperrin2531]

Could the lack and the availability of pilot are possibly due the mandated medication given during the last 2 to 3 years ?

[@CWLemoine]

It doesn't help, but no, that's not really causal.

[@toddie4usa1]

Anyone surprised given the current focus of the DOD and Pentagon?

[@reasonsformoving]

The whole country is being mismanaged.

[@sb859]

But...what are your preferred pronouns? Said most Colonels...probably.

[@deantait8326]

See Brandon !!! aka Bidenomics

[@R34568]

This issue has been happening long before President Biden was in office.

[@INOD-2]

@deantait8326 Mover and Gonky were told their flying jobs were being eliminated in October 2020. Who was the President then? Yeah.

[@MetroplexAerials]

@CWLemoine - this goes straight back to what the homes, the public schools, and even the churches are teaching. Servant leadership is a distinctly Christian fundamental and modern society is rejecting their Christian heritage that used to influence behavior even where people rejected the Gospel's core message. Straight from Jesus: Matthew 23:11-12 "But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant, and whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."

[@MetroplexAerials]

@@kcjones9440 A lot of people do things in God's name, and also in their own name, that do not agree with what God commanded. Remember, Jesus said that the two great commandments were to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. If they are doing terrible things, they are not following God's desire and are thus breaking the 2nd commandment to use His name in vain.

[@MetroplexAerials]

@@zenithplyrzreg6405oh, yeah, duh, 3rd.

[@MetroplexAerials]

@@kcjones9440 which was explained as a morally just punishment for their evil. There is a difference.

[@MetroplexAerials]

@@kcjones9440 It's a known fact that those that were punished were actually doing human sacrifices including of children to the fires of Molech.

[@c1ph3rpunk]

Not enough pilots? Easy solution, have fewer airplanes! Come on, this is SO simple. Geez. ;-)