Aircraft Primer - Balancing Time, Weight, and Money (Ep9)

[@williamgreen4757]

Primer is just used for paint adheasion, zincromate is a corosion stopper. From an aircraft maintenance depot troop, good luck.

[@sullysairplanefactory]

I love this…”my favorite four states to move to are….” “And I can promise you I won’t be moving to California, Oregon, Washington or anywhere on the East Coast.” We should catch up, We are Michigan folks ourselves and in Ohio too. We would pick the same great states to move to…but the Michigan and Ohio have treated us well for many years as well. Cheers to the Midwest. And to UT, AZ, ID and NV

[@n206ja]

Cortec primer is meant to be thinned before application, not applied undiluted. I discussed this years ago with Caleb, the engineer who used to be at Zenith. He recommended thinning it with water until it was a consistency that easily brushed-on and left a uniform film. I used disposable foam brushes. All you need is a thin film of diluted Cortec, which will dry very quickly - you can, however, according to Caleb, even assemble the parts with it still wet, but it will glue the parts together when it dries, so this should only be done when it is a definite final assembly! I thinned the Cortec in plastic lab sample cups with screw-on lids like you leave urine samples in at the doctor's office. Any left-over thinned Cortec can then be capped and used next time. Since it is applied thinned, you'll find the quart can will last a long, long time - probably way more than enough to prime all mating surfaces on the SD. Of course, any primer is probably OK as the 6061-T6 is corrosion resistant, anyway. I'll admit the rattle can primer is very convenient and fast! Great detail in your videos - keep up the good work!

[@wb6anp]

Thin the cortc with denatured alcohol, I spread the cortec on, and assemble the parts over it while it is wet, the parts are riveted and glued together then.

[@muhammadsteinberg]

Just put my deposit down on a RV-10. I live in a very humid area 40 miles from the gulf and had a 172 hangared 60miles from the gulf. I definitely plan on priming everything. For me the added weight seems miniscule in comparison to my piece of mind and VAN's posted specifications. Even if I have to cut back on fuel to load up (RV-10) I'll still be way ahead of the game compared to the 172 I had.

[@davidrobins4025]

It's worth the time it takes to weigh the pros and cons. You obviously thought the results through. The parts look great primed, but 10 lbs is TEN pounds! It is really exciting to see progress being made. Thanks for taking the time to do the videos. Well done.

[@shelliebarnes1959]

In old days we used to spray interior wings and fuselage with lite coat LPS

[@HookedOnUtah]

Yes....come to Utah.....You'll love it, I'll take you flying to some amazing places.

[@patmac]

Just catching up on your vids. Good vid on priming and I agree on mating surfaces. I too am just priming the mating surfaces on my RV14. I have an entirely new appreciation for the subject, or dare I say religion, of priming. ;)

[@davidwhite2011]

Super Koropon® 515-700 fluid resistant conventional solids epoxy coating. This high performance primer is used to protect the structural interior of aircraft from corrosion. Dry Film Weight: 47 grams/square meter at 25 microns dry film (0.00956 pounds/square feet at 1 mil dry film) There is a reason all the Coast Guard planes around Tampa use this.

[@LTVoyager]

I had the same debate as you with my S-21. RANS does not recommend priming other than faying surfaces and dipping the SS rivets. I decided that weight was a huge issue for me and not knowing where the plane may end up in the future, I decided to prime. Another reason is that I plan to paint my own airplane and I wanted the practice on hidden parts before the exposed parts to get my prep and spray techniques refined a little. I agree, it is likely unnecessary, but I figure at most 10 extra pounds and that seemed like a reasonable trade-off to me. However, I certainly would not criticize anyone who chose not to prime. Also, I just like the look of the white primer on the parts and it makes it easy to see any cracks or leaks in the future during inspections.

[@theworshiptraveler6709]

Great video Mark. Parts are looking great too. Just priming mating surfaces makes a lot of sense.

[@justin_hyde]

If you're not using zinc chromate, there's really no reason to just prime any of the parts. Cheap rustoleum doesn't do a good job at keeping water and other contaminants from interacting with the metal, and there's no reason to prime between two surfaces if they're the same metal since you need dissimilar metals for galvanic corrosion to occur. Also, priming just one section instead of the entire part won't prevent filiform corrosion. Either prime everything with zinc chromate or just prime where you're going to paint.

[@LTVoyager]

Justin Hyde Wrong. Many coatings provide excellent corrosion protection. I can’t speak to Rustoleum, but a number of coatings are excellent. Zinc Chromate is good, but a lot of the preference for that is tradition as much as performance. And galvanic corrosion is only one of nearly a dozen aluminum corrosion mechanisms. There are many reasons that applying primer to at least the faying surfaces is a good idea. www.corrosionpedia.com/understanding-aluminum-corrosion/2/6954

[@jamesbarber2882]

Mark, now it's getting colder can you show the difference between spraying a cold rattle can and one that's been standing in hot water .It stops the splatter and gives a finer spray .It works a treat for me !

[@jamesbarber2882]

How do you feel about ACF50 ....Corrosion X ...and of course Alodine comments will be welcome .I have used ACF 50 for ten years .It works its way up past the rivets and shows on the surface ,so don't use it until your paint is dry .This stuff really chases the moisture away.

[@pavehawk25]

James Barber ACF50 seems to work. I used Cortec with 30% denatured alcohol and brush on mating surface. How are you applying ACF?

[@jamesbarber2882]

pavehawk25 Good morning from the U K . I didn't use it until the first annual. If you use it before the paint job .....big problems.I sprayed it in with one of those crude sprayers that come with a cheap Airgun kit ,The gun with the 6 inch long probe .i think it's for spraying engine cleaner .It shouldn't work but it does !There ARE different metals where the alloy touches .The rivets aren't 6061 . This stuff gets past the rivets ,and can reach the surface .Our Air worthiness people thought it might loosen the rivets but OK d it .The Spitfire used magnesium rivets .These were expected to last the war ,and they did, just !The rebuilders just unzip em because the rivets go and leave the alloy .The alloy .is similar to 20 24 and is painted with zinc chromate .1940 .....2020 It's good enough for me .Zinc chromate causes cancer I believe , so use it outside .In the Uk we can buy it in rattle cans from LAS . I t's not sold to the public because it's too toxic .We home builders are classed as experts so we are allowed nasty stuff ! Mark is right on the ball when he says to consider where the aircraft will live .I spent last Friday in a hanger on the edge of the salt marsh.......yards from the North Sea putting the wing on a Sport Cruser .Thats when you need the lot ! There are two ways to get a thin film of chromemate on the larger flat surfaces .In the UK the car paint suppliers fill up cans with the paint of your colour (color in the US ) I just get them to put my thinned down paint in rattle cans .The other trick is to wet the surface with thinners just before you spray,The result is OK for in side and a can will last LOT longer .Paint is paint .....chromate is anti corrosion treatment ..and a film does the job and saves weight .

[@Laserdoc905]

Hey Mark, I use cortec but dilute it with alcohol. Its way too thick right out of the can. But ya its kind of a pain in the butt.

[@kevenlonsdale1354]

Excellent video as usual!!!

[@wntu4]

I think I would prime any areas that will be difficult to impossible to inspect once the plane is complete. Primer: $11 a can. Peace of mind: priceless.

[@john9663]

Mark: Another informative video. Speaking of living elsewhere, do you have an update on Texas relo? Are you going to post any more videos on the test "fly off' on the Cruzer? Great progress on the SD.

[@jbryant520]

Mark, Great video. What type of primer do you plan to use for exterior paint prep?

[@flycow69]

#1. Thanks for the education. I was waiting for you to prime the Left Wing lol. Keep those videos coming. By the way I love eastern shores and I am willing to lose 10 lbs to cancel the weight of the primer. That’s just my opinion.

[@stevemowat4294]

Yeah Mark. DON'T prime this one. If you move to a harsher environment... you can BUILD AGAIN!! double win there!

[@generalcanby5847]

Adding to another comments, Oregon and Washington as with California are very diverse states. Tons of rain west of the Coast range, moderate levels between Coast and Cascade range, and dry as hell east of the Cascades. South Eastern Oregon is one of the most isolated areas of the entire contiguous United States. Gorgeous and beautiful state. No sales tax, but state tax approx 9%. Biggest concern to me is the "Cascadia Earthquake" concern which WILL happen at some point, and could be as severe as 9.0. Under such scenario, estimates are that hundreds of bridges bridges would collapse, Portland would experience major damage and deaths, etc. Its not a good thought to ponder at anytime, especially in retirement! Major damage basically I-5 and Westward. Then again, if it doesn't happen in 2020, maybe Oregon will be OK ;)

[@tray22]

I would be less concerned about natural disasters and more concerned with dumb humans. At least it would be difficult to hit a plane with a can of soup while mid air.

[@danielbasovitch5087]

How many hours a day do you estimate or log a day on your build between reading the manual, prepping the parts after finding them and actual assembly?

[@michaeltucker8145]

Hi Mark, Just discovered your site and I am catching up on your videos. I am using Cortec 373... I thought that was what Zenith sold? But mine is green and yours is white? I know that the 373 is available in green and "clear" but both of them do not seem to be "thick" as you mentioned... I do not thin my 373. Did you buy yours from Zenith?

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Mine is milky white and dries clear. Yes I bought it from Zenith.

[@amtpdb1]

I live in Calif. . I talked to an A&P about building an aircraft. He mentioned he always primes with Zinc Cromate and before he installs a rivet he even dips it into the primer so that there is protection between materials and the rivets. After building these aircraft, what are your thoughts on his practices and or suggestions? Thanks for the videos. Don

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Nothing wrong with that. I didn't do that and I'm ok with my airplane only lasting 200-250 years :)

[@karlthompson1961]

Love the tee shirt 👍🏻🇬🇧🤓

[@danielbasovitch5087]

Mark, I was under the impression that you were already retired, what do you do for a living (if you don't mind the question)?

[@bobpenzien7962]

I've lived in California all my life and most of California is not humid and not salty. Obviously, if you live right on the coast of California, the ocean winds can make the coastal air wet, humid and salty. Once you are inland, the California air is dry with very little humidity. In fact, airliners store their aged unused aircraft in the Mohave desert in Victorville, CA, one of the driest places on earth. Before you rule out California as a place to live, I recommend you check out the whole state. California is the most diverse state in the United States with deserts, mountains, ocean beaches, farmland including wine growing regions, a delta, one of two in the entire country, including the mighty redwoods not to mention great cities like San Francisco, Los Angles San Diego!

[@todd-617]

Nice summary. Some people only know what they heard on fake news about California.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Google CA taxes. "California has among the highest taxes in the nation". No thanks. I agree CA is a beautiful state. SAN and LAX are on my bid list for airline layovers at work. But there's a reason there's a mass exodus from CA. And that's not fake news (like everything else on CNN, MSNBC, etc...)

[@eudemonia]

​@@KitplaneEnthusiast That is fake news. It is more nuanced than you are hearing. "Mass exodus" means instead of California's population growing by 500k per year, it has dropped to about 80-100k. Still a lot of growth. More than 50% of all venture capital dollars come to CA every year while low tech companies move to Texas and elsewhere. That isn't really a population or business exodus, it is more of a transformation. Prop 13 since 1978 has caused market distortion. For example, someone living in their home for decades may pay only 0.2% property tax relative to market value while their neighbor who just moved in is paying 1%. 1% is below the property tax average in the US and 0.2% can only be beat by rural Alaska's 0%. However, if you are retiring and going to be pulling much of your income from 401(k), it is understandable to be looking at a state with no income tax. A lot of Californians I know go to the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe or along the Mt Rose highway on the Reno side of Mt Rose. Those areas are forested and feel like CA, enjoy a short drive back into CA, yet get the benefits of NV.

[@aaronboulais4498]

I’ve lived in southern California for my entire life (38 years). I can’t leave this state fast enough! I would never encourage anyone to come here. Terrible traffic, high gas prices, out of this world home prices, even worse rent rates, the worst smog in the country, and way overpopulated. Every time I go to a different state on vacation I dread coming back to Cali. Central and Northern California can be beautiful scenic wise, but home prices are insane. I would encourage people to visit the western and eastern Sierras for vacation...it’s beautiful there. But choose a different place to call home. Your a smart man to stay away!

[@eudemonia]

California is a huge state with an economy only smaller than 4 of the world's largest national economies. It is important to realize that different parts of the state are like different parts of a country. The northern coast is very different than the central valley or the southern desert or southern coast or the sierra foothills or the high sierra. Weather, house prices, industries: all different. As Bob stated at the top of this thread, the state is diverse in every way. Lots of differences and lots of nuances. For example, my son and his family lives a block from me in the Sacramento metro area in the Sierra foothills of Placer County. House prices here are about 1/4 the price of a similar neighborhood in the Bay Area. My son works for a well-known software company in San Francisco, but works remotely. Bay Area income and Central Valley/Foothills cost of living, with no traffic or smog. That is just one of many possible CA experiences. Mark is talking about his retirement, so he is probably not concerned with living in a strong economy and job prospects. He is a pilot and can live just about anywhere when he retires. BTW Mark: love your channel.

[@danielbasovitch5087]

Hey Mark, when you are in front of your camera explaining your build steps are you using any kind of script or is it all off the cuff as you do it and edited in or out later? just wondering about the process.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

I make it up as I go along. And because of that, usually film each clip about 25 times!

[@superduper1917]

Thank you for this one! Well for all of them, but this one is where I’m at; so it’s very relevant presently. Thank you Sir! The military uses cermaic coatings don’t they? Zinc Chromate maybe they call it? Full coverage ;-) Never know where your journeys may take you plus who the new owne's may be after we are gone. It’s a craftsmanship must as a professional build. 50 years from now someone will be glad you did this step!

[@wb6anp]

True zinc chromate cant be purchased in spray can, it requires specialized spray booths for filtration. We can get Zinc phosphate but it isn't much better than rustoleum.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

No it's not a craftsmanship must.

[@davejoynt6276]

What kind of an idiot would give this video thumbs down, pathetic people. I for 1 enjoy this mans videos.

[@charlesharper7292]

I hope by primer, you mean zinc chromate

[@Texxas750Cruzer]

I didn't like Cortex either. It also catches aluminum shavings

[@charlescampbellii8193]

Move to Tucson, Az.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

That's possible.

[@1shARyn3]

Saw you on Bryan's video

[@pzakkly3976]

Why not just weigh the can of primer to see how much you use ??

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

This would not take into consideration the overspray that is not landing on the airplane, or the liquids that gas out and evaporate. It's not an accurate way to measure the weight of the primer.

[@joseruiz-Joecool]

Before I retired from working sheetmetal on B737's and B757's, Boeing suggested to apply two thin coats of zinc primer on all surfaces especially on mating surfaces. Of course Boeing uses lots of 2024t3. My 2 cents would say just prime the mating surfaces on the 6061t6.

[@53jed]

"I won't be living in California, Oregon, Washington, or anywhere on the east coast." Don't blame you, not in the foreseeable future.

[@SpyGeorgilis]

This comment section looks promising for some nice, autumn heat... so I'll just add this, to help the KZbin algorithm a little (?) and scoot off. Keep up the good work!

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

I was going to say in the video, "Log on to the Vans Air Force forum and say, I'm going to build an RV, but I'm not going to prime it. What do you all think?" Then grab some popcorn, sit back, and watch the sh*itshow!!!" LOL. There's a reason they call it "Primer Wars".

[@SpyGeorgilis]

@@KitplaneEnthusiast LOL I know, there's a youtuber called Jason Ellis, building an RV-10, without priming. He's mentioned the, erm, let's call it "friction" in those forums and elsewhere, when someone makes mention of the P word.

[@asiasmells71]

I couldn't agree more.. By the time 6061 becomes an issue we will all be flying some plastic pice of crap that has a battery and a tesla logo and you sit back watch KZbinhow to make money videos as it flys u home... And these plains will be left for the real men.. If you can still find a run way to land on..

[@travisw9071]

For sure not ca. Pretty lame here

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

I love CA, but I refuse to give away most of my income to the state...

[@johnreed8872]

Hey Mark! If and when you sell the airplane , I think having everything primed would be a good selling point. Thanks again for doing these videos!! Blue Skies!