An EPIC Musical Odyssey (I couldn't resist)

[@mythicalgirl2005]

"They're planning a mutiny, aren't they?" **laughs in Thunder Saga**

[@sleepyllama3673]

"He could of gone to his second couldn't he" Laugh indeed.

[@grapee4498]

"Is it gonna be a specific person?" (talking about who opens the bag)

[@sureindubitably3771]

"Not yet atleast" I said as a single tear comes down my face

[@supattreewatanawong5025]

@@sleepyllama3673 that not wrong one of reason crew start to doubt Ody beacuse he show them that he not trust them special his second

[@manwithgun9768]

God the pain of hearing it

[@DoctorHoovy]

“Odyssey this is not the time to start being sassy to your divine sugar momma”

[@LilacRose-rp8vw]

Yes, I was thinking of that the entire time!

[@cinder_x3]

mortius reference⁉️

[@ChuncheeCat]

The wise words of Mortius.

[@eudstersgamersquad6738]

I know right!

[@SteamedPoi]

FELLOW MORTIUS WATCHER

[@Shadeius]

Fun fact about Keep Your Friends Close: In Odyssey they were within the sight line of Ithica when the bag was opened to the point where Odysseus' mother saw the ships being blown away.

[@MadiWeir]

Ouch dude! That makes that scene more emotional 😢

[@sabertoothno34]

That is NOT a fun fact 😭

[@arghhhhy5874]

​@@sabertoothno34another fun fact. Because of witnessing the storm consume the ships, in some versions of the myth, Odysseus' mother believed he was killed in the storm and committed suicide as a result.

[@sabertoothno34]

@@arghhhhy5874 I heard about her committing suicide but I was never told the reasonf or it... that's really sad.

[@poisecritikal]

Go ahead and take a torch for me☹️

[@RensStoryteller]

"Undercutting the captain in front of the crew is a bad idea" man, it's not just captain! He is LITERALLY going up to the KING and saying "hey, your decisions are stupid!" IN FRONT OF HIS CITIZENS!!! He NEEDED to get him down from view yesterday!

[@arclight117]

undemining the captian and breaking the chain of command is the fastest way to get the entire crew dead and well...

[@SingingSealRiana]

Thing is, especially because he is the king, he should not run headfirst into danger!!! Eury does not defy orders, he exoresses worry that his brither and friend gets hinself needlessly killed and leaves allbof them behind without guidance!!! The thing about captains is they need their crews respect and trust and they need to earn it by keeping them safe. The thing about kings is, they stay the hell out of the first line of fire, cause if they go down, the whole kingdom is fucked!!! He also is not plantins seeds of doubt, he is just the one who voices them so ody can dispel them! The crew is already losing trust, and ody needs to work to get it back but he is to prideful to see that. Eurylecus dies exactly what his job is as second in command, he is the onky one who is in a position to be a bridge between the crew and their leader, the only one knowing bith sides and the only one whi can get away with checking the leader if it looks like he loses it. It is literally his job to call ody out when he does bs!!!

[@felixsonofscouty]

to be fair, when you're on the sea, a captains orders are more important than a king's orders, odysseus just happened to be both

[@Roseasuko]

​@SingingSealRiana "Eury doesn't defy orders", Sylla would beg to differ.

[@Roseasuko]

@AmericanBrit9834 Thats not what I meant. I meant the revelation in the song. People watch these in order and would normal scroll through comments and I didn't want to spoil (also I wasn't sure how far the guy got). But as far as I'm concerned Eury publicly disagreed with the captian, then later got pulled aside and said he was going to follow orders, didn't follow a very simple order and caused this journey to be way longer that it was supposed to be.

[@mikeswem]

Though it's not directly addressed, when Eurylochus calls Odysseus "the brother I could never do without" that's not just because they're friends and he's his second in command. Eurylochus is actually married to the sister of Odysseus, thus making them brothers by marriage.

[@tumblingartist]

Yes!! Ctimene :D

[@xlovrui]

WHAT

[@xlovrui]

that makes my heart break even more during thunder saga omg

[@AxolotlQueen]

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT

[@AxolotlQueen]

​@@xlovruiread this in Poseidon's voice 😂

[@allura9163]

A lot of people speculate that Poseidon demanding an apology was actually a test - by showing remorse for hurting the cyclops, Odysseus would be failing because by showing remorse he's still showing kindness/mercy. Apology or not, Poseidon was ALWAYS going to decimate his crew, he just wanted to see if Odysseus had yet learned the meaning of what he was trying to say with his ruthless being mercy policy. When you show mercy or kindness, you assume the risk of that person coming after you again in the future. We already saw Odysseus live that out when he didn't show mercy towards the infant, but by the time the confrontation with the cyclops came around, he was tired of fighting and killing and Polites dying gave Odysseus a worldview he wanted to keep alive - by putting kindness into the world, you invite kindness back onto yourself. Unfortunate that he lived in a time when kindness was seen as a weakness by both Gods and other humans. Poseidon didn't actually care that Polyphemus was hurt, it was more of an anger born from the insult that Odysseus saw Polyphemus as so little of a threat that he didn't think keeping him alive could cause problems in the future. After all, it's not like Polyphemus has a giant sized ship that would let him leave his cave/island...

[@tumblingartist]

Ooo very interesting!! Thanks for sharing!!

[@MrJpc1234]

THANKYOU it was starting to annoy me seeing so many people apply modern values and not trying to understand the morality that created these myths

[@kingstrojek9937]

That’s what I’m saying

[@supattreewatanawong5025]

Oh Poseidon very care that Polyphemus was hurt in mythology Poseidon is very lovely father that loved and take care everyone of his kid

[@elizabethdonner5240]

Oh!! That makes way more sense than what I interpreted it as. I thought that Posiden gave him the option to apologize but Odysseus uses his silver tongue instead and he doesn't actually apologize. He is like it was the only way which is not I'm sorry. He tries to talk his way out again and again it doesn't work. But I like your interpretation better haha!

[@DarkSailor7]

"The darkest moment" - said by Poseidon is reference what Odysseus said to Cyclop before revealing his name to him

[@MadiWeir]

I thought I recognize that reference! I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed this

[@aadityayanamandra8846]

He also says "remember me," another clear reference to odysseus in "remember them."

[@Silokkes]

Yeah he's basically taunting Odysseus and making him realize how bad his mistake was by saying so much shit.

[@ArtofCrimms]

Which was also a real dick thing to say to a guy who he'd just blinded, tbh. I like puns as much as the next man but damn that's not nice.

[@charadreemurr9256]

ye also kinda at the start also sings with a rythim that matches his :D love this all sm ty ^^

[@kscrhn]

Actually a fun fact is that when Jorge was reading the odyssey he thought that Aeolus's island 'FLOATING' meant that it was in the SKY (when actually is much more like Delos, warping around the ocean)

[@nutelasaur9453]

to be fair, why would the wind god/king's island NOT be in the sky. like i understand the misread because i would have interpreted it the same way

[@azux.]

@@nutelasaur9453 the mythology tries not to use too much "magic", poseidon don't show up, he makes tidewaves that destroy him, zeus don't show up, is just a lighting hitting them, they tried to keep some sort of realism in their stories, like could you really tell that the ocean was just having a storm or maybe a god was involved? that's how i see at least

[@arghhhhy5874]

​@@azux.I think that aspect of the stories is hinted at in Storm when Odysseus is asking himself if the waves are nature or divine.

[@TheSilversepiroth]

Not even necessarily warping, just not moored to the earth beneath it like most land masses are. Honestly, the original intended reading of Aeolus' Island still makes sense for a wind god, as it would easily be the "victim" of the winds instead of being stuck in one place

[@jamescook5783]

The reason you don't remember the bits with Aeolus is because they were very different in the myth. In the Odyssey, Aeolus is a mortal king who was given charge over the winds by Zeus as opposed to a goddess. I also don't think he was trying to screw over Odysseus though he still told Odysseus not to tell his men what was in the bag and the bag still got opened. Edit: Also, in the mirscy animatic for Keep your friends close" which just dropped a couple days ago, the Aeolus's little minions (Winions) are the same beings as the lotus eaters. That might be canon.

[@Airier]

Yeah. That sounds much more familiar. 😁👍 Thanks for clarifying.

[@larseich5796]

​@@Airieralso the floating thing is a misinterpretation. In the Greek text the island is floating in the sense of "capable of moving around in the water" rather than flying through the air. But since both are referred to as floating in English Jay got the two confused. And when he noticed his error he decided to run with it because it's extremely cool

[@sugarrmoon]

@@larseich5796 im actually quite happy they misinterpreted it in this case because, like you said, extremely cool and very fitting for a wind god!

[@calebeaton8777]

Also winions are an original jorge creation and what he calls his followers.

[@SuaveNerd2000]

Odessyus explained what happened to him over dinner and Aeolus was moved enough to give him the bag and instructing him not to open it. The winds actually carried him back to Aeolus' Island and when he showed up Aeolus concluded he was cursed by the gods and told him to leave. In which the storm came in and we get to ruthlessness

[@skyrimsnipr3605]

I'm not sure if you realized, but the line about taking his men to war w/o casualties was really important. The Trojan war lasted 10 years, and he led his men through it w/o losing ANYONE in the entire 10 yrs. The first incident where ANYTHING went wrong, he and his men were basically being starved to death only to run afoul of Polyphemus. But even then most of the men he brought with him to the cave survived. they suffered losses yes, but not nearly as many as would have been expected in a battle between true mortals and ANY form of monster. Much less a humanoid 40 ft tall club wielding cannibal.

[@stretr8251]

Additionally, that was caused entirely by the threat of starvation and lack of food options after leaving Troy. Those in charge of keeping the ships supplied (quartermaster and raiders) were at fault. Odysseus is having to remind his crew of this while facing absolutely nonsense allegations. "You rely on wit and people die on it," is absolutely ridiculous at a point where his wit has both not gotten anyone killed and is what saved everyone who did make it out of that cave.

[@ToaArcan]

Odysseus was actually considered one of the _worst_ heroes by Greek standards, because he was a sneaky, deceptive manipulator rather than a hypermasculine strongman. He's more popular with modern audiences, however, as we tend to like underdog trickster heroes who use guile and wit to achieve their ends more than ones who just kill everything in their way. Poseidon's stance is fairly straightforward: If Odysseus had just slaughtered his way home, he'd be fine. If he were ruthless, Polyphemus couldn't have called on Poseidon for vengeance. Poseidon doesn't even care about Polyphemus himself, he's got a lot of kids, it's more about the damage that having his son blinded and then _spared_ does to Poseidon's reputation. In Greek myth, heroes went and killed monsters all the time, sometimes they'd even be sent to do so by the monster's own divine parent. Going out and decapitating some weird animal was a heroic deed, and for Odysseus to decide that Polyphemus wasn't worth killing, because he decides to buy into Polites' idea of mercy? It's a grievous insult. So Poseidon steps down from his throne, kicks the shit out of Odysseus, and drowns his whole fleet to show him "No, you're wrong, Polites was wrong, being a cold-blooded killer is the only way to be merciful to yourself. Give your enemies no quarter because they won't give you any, _leave no-one alive to seek vengeance._ " Spoilers for the Underworld and Thunder Sagas below: Odysseus will take this to heart.

[@Tentativa4tadificil]

I'm sorry but could you share sources about Odysseus being bad by greek standards? As far as I know the Greek liked cleverness; hyper masculine heroes and negative impressions about Odysseus character from what I read come only later in the Roman era.

[@SantosoWijaya]

I think you had it backwards. Odysseus cunning was lauded by classical Greek audience but derided as not masculine by later Roman audience.

[@MrJpc1234]

You are getting that mixed up it was the ROMANS who had those opinions of Odysseus (or Ulysses ) as they called him..... The romans took alot of the Greek stories into their mythos but but the earlier Romans were not fans of winning by deceit and guile so they disliked odysseus......This is also why Ares equivalent Mars is was more prominent in their culture because they preferred his bloody forthrightness to Athenas stratagems

[@trololopez2437]

@@MrJpc1234 Wait, wait, wait, Ulysses is the Romanized form of ODYSSEUS!? okay, I did not know that. Man, I like Ulysses S. Grant even more now!

[@Fantasmaa9]

Imagine the blow to your pride that this Greek (who is mentored by one of your greatest godly rivals, Athena) had the gall to blind your son and then let him live WHILE mocking him by telling him his real name. You are Poseidon, of the most feared and revered gods and you cannot let something like that slide. It wasn't Odysseus's cunning that led to his downfall that's being mocked, it's his pride and arrogance shown through lyrics like "You revealed your name, and you let him live!"

[@disableddragonborn]

19:43 I LOVE how this animator actually included the height difference between Jorge and Armando (Eurylochus). It has become a bit of a running joke that all of the cast are taller than Jorge. 😂

[@nightninja1745]

This video is 40% excitement, 30% feels, 15% shock, 15% Greek lore.

[@Airier]

Read the last part as Geek Lore. 😅

[@nightninja1745]

@@Airier lol

[@devak6698]

@@Airiersame difference

[@tumblingartist]

@@Airierboth are true!

[@LadyFYRN]

Both​@@Airier

[@gavinwright7076]

The reason odysseus is saying "I'm the same" desperately is because his world is slowly coming apart on this journey and so much is already changing but if he can remain the same throughout the journey everything will be alright

[@eloisebarbosa2649]

Spoilers, he won't be the same for long anymore 🥲

[@gavinwright7076]

@@eloisebarbosa2649 Yeah this was kinda the turning point lol. The issue with being a saint is there's nowhere else to go but down

[@TangQin-ey3ru]

The only reason Odysseus survived insulting Athena was because Athena actually still cared and watched over him, she was just really pissed at him since he revealed his name

[@darkmega24ify]

So basically mom is just angry that her son is being a rebellious teen LMAO

[@SingingSealRiana]

​@@darkmega24ifyyeah, but the typ of rebellion, that leads to the kids death, like taking drugs and dealing

[@CPe-r2r]

I thought she was mad because he let the monster live. "He is still a threat until he is dead"

[@BrittanyArtPoetry]

When Jay first read the source material he read ‘floating island’ for the wind god and assumed it was in the sky. Only later did he learn that a floating island is just a normal island untethered to the sea floor. He later explained that mistake in a short, but the song was already published. He also misses up the dates at one point and you can totally see him kicking himself.

[@powerfist1340]

one of the songs in The Circe Saga references having been away for 12 years, when due to the fiddling done with the timeline in adaptation was wrong. This occurred because in the original, Odysseus stayed on Circes' island for two years sleeping with her (Whether he consented is... up in the air for a multitude of reasons, such as the later example of him 'cheating' being *very clearly* not consensual on his part, Circe's own morals on consent and revenge being incredibly murky, as a Goddess herself.) while trying to figure out what to do, meanwhile in Epic Circe very quickly gives him a route to The Underworld to see Tiereisias. Pellenore the goat dies by falling off a roof tho lmao.

[@diegodelamacorra8901]

Which short was it?

[@BrittanyArtPoetry]

@@diegodelamacorra8901 sorry I don’t know, I just found it while scrolling about.

[@boxtank5288]

Though we know, with how OSTENTATIOUS the Gods are that they totally would have a Sky Island along with the tallest Mountain in all of Greece being their big Parthenon.

[@maybe_bunnytv]

😂😂😂"12 long years"

[@Moth-Bells]

20:06 I think this song does great to remind us that yes, Odysseus is Eurylochus' friend, but despite them being friends, Ody isnt just a random general that took them to war. He's their *king*

[@dragonstouch1042]

And Eurylochus’ brother-in-law

[@PetarSon]

2:53 Also people forget that when they read the story of Odysseus, Odysseus didn't know who the Cyclops parents were, it's not a common knowledge that everyone knows for some reason, but as readers we forget that Odysseus doesn't know that the Cyclops is the son of Poseidon, so Cyclops finding out his name shouldn't be a problem in Odysseus's eyes at that moment, and Athena didn't have to tell him to kill the Cyclops, because the Cyclops was blind and thought Odysseus was called "NOBODY" so he couldn't appeal to anyone for help.

[@_.hybrids._1680]

Right, and to add, Polyphemus was the one in the wrong according to the rules of Xenia. After Odysseus found out they unknowingly broke into a home, he tried to make it right according to Xenia. Polyphemus was the one who knowingly broke it by not even trying to reach an agreement.

[@mayhapslynn]

​@_.hybrids._1680 moreso, he agreed to payment in kind and then killed the men anyways

[@Valmunify]

If I recall correctly, gods that deal with death in some form or fashion are called chthonic gods, and in Mycenaean Greece, Poseidon was potentially also a god of the underworld since Hades doesn't exist in any surviving records of the time but Poseidon was mentioned instead which is why he's also considered to be a chthonic god. That, and a lot of people die at sea, so death would be a huge part of Poseidon's domain.

[@jeffrepac8197]

Basically, but the earth and sea are chthonic domains too, as are fertility, nature, chaos, and darkness. Some evidence suggests that Poseidon and Zeus were originally in a dualistic relationship as the respective chthonic and celestial forces of nature, and Hades was differentiated over time. Poseidon's trident is a very similar attribute to Hades' bident, for instance. This fits well with other Greek dualities; Ares and Athena representing chthonic and celestial aspects of war, or the much later Apollo and Dionysus being celestial and chthonic patrons of art and bringers of knowledge, of different kinds.

[@RevyTheExplorer]

"they're planning a mutiny aren't they?" Funny you should ask that!

[@DizSam]

That was literally the first thing I thought when he said that 😭

[@riversarting7645]

​@@DizSam I giggled 😅

[@BrittanyArtPoetry]

Fun fact according to Jay Ruthlessness is the main theme of the musical, with a sliding scale of this song on the ‘always be ruthless’ side and on the other side being Politese ‘Open Arms.’ All other songs fall somewhere on this scale. In the original Odysseus never actually met Poseidon in person but for thematic reasons he wanted to introduce this song.

[@area52ron]

“I am your darkest moment” Poseidon is mocking Odysseus because he said that to Polyphemus

[@haraken3119]

Here is the thing. When people actually apologize to the gods in Greek mythology, the gods usually becomes even more ruthless feeling insulted that a mortal believe words could erase their affront. Usually apologizing to Poseidon ends up with him not only giving you a fate worst than death to you but also your entire bloodline and people back home (not just the soldiers of the involved group). Greeks Mythology often viewed words like "sorry" being a hubris of mortal that believes words can correct unforgivable acts and slights. Just a few example who lived just long enough to be remorseful and still get even worst punishment. Arachne trying to end her own life in apology (tried to hang herself in despair and retribution to the slighted Athena), was turned into a monster by Athena for trying to end it willingly to end the suffering of her punishment. Niobe had her children slaughtered by Apollo and Artemis (for being too proud of her children) before being turned to stone in her grief and sorrow, frozen in unending weeping suffering for eternity for being remorseful after her children died. Actaeon was a hunter who got turned into a stag and got killed by his own hunting dogs, for accidentally witnessing Artemis bathing in a forest. In Greek's Myths appealing to gods forgiveness is hubris and manipulation in itself. Punishment for Hubris and attempting to manipulate the gods just get added on top of your original slight.

[@lavaninja1042]

Ah yes you pretty my screwed no matter what to be honest.

[@detectiveshadow2160]

I personally love Ruthlessness by AnniFlamma since it makes Poseiden more creepy/powerful and leans more to his horse thing

[@historyreader37]

Also how poseidon grab odysseus and toss him around like how somebody trap in a violent ocean wave would be tossed is just nice...

[@carktheshark]

Same

[@NiamhJP03]

Yeah, I love AnniFlamma's Ruthlessness animatic! Their Poseidon is so menacing, and the image of the horse drumming up the waves and how brutal it all was is amazing! The only part that I don't like as much is how they portrayed the last part of the song. Odysseus seems a bit too happy/smiley compared to how I heard it in the audio for my taste, which is something I prefer about Gigi's take on it. But aside from that it's all fantastic!

[@MammalianCreature]

They made Ody look off though, which is odd. Dude is getting threatened by a God and he's just all "hehe goofy smile hehe". The tone is thrown because of that. Their Poseidon and the wave animation is the redeeming quality, but that's about it.

[@kahxhoshz]

Same! :D

[@SauceyRedHN]

So afaik "winions" are the lotus eaters Aeolus has with them in the musical, and the word is just a portmanteau of "wind" and "minions", and I guess it's also what the people in the fandom are called.

[@Airier]

Huh, so that's what that means. Thanks. 😁👍

[@SauceyRedHN]

@@Airier You're welcome!

[@MrSmile078]

@@Airierin the canon of Epic the lotus eaters are Winions (Aeolus servants) that got lost and got themselves addicted to the lotus fruit, this is why in Epic they are fantastical little critters instead of just human high on lotus.

[@beastwriter3915]

Afaik, the Winions were the names of Aeolus's companions, and they were originally different from the lotus eaters. However, since they sound the same, the fans headcanoned that they are the same creature, and Jay accepted it as new canon.

[@risperdude]

Also Jorge (hor-hey) named his production company Winion Entertainment as a nod to the winion community whom he truly seems to honor and appreciate.

[@jademuseplays]

Fun fact: The song “Storm” is written in 7/4. Jorge loves creating weird time signatures for songs with water in them

[@lionelmarcussolaris2858]

Ruthlessness as Mercy might seem absurd but if I'm correct, what it meant is death is a much better fate than living in agony. Which meant that if Ody just killed Polyphemus, Poseidon wouldn't have gotten angry because of the pained wails of his son. That's why some people say that death is mercy on certain situations. Like for an old Dog suffering from an incurable disease, it's better for them to be Euthanized. It's painful for the owner but it's mercy to the pet.

[@beastwriter3915]

Oh no, what Poseidon meant is that being ruthless is being merciful to yourself. If you're ruthless, then people cannot take advantage of you, you get things done without people getting in your way, therefore doing yourself a favour. At least, that's what Poseidon thinks it is.

[@siramaytheshowgundragon]

Your being to kind on posiden he's a jerk

[@frankheninja1]

Good job you completely misunderstood the line. Room temp IQ and a Tik Tok brainrot level of media literacy.

[@historyreader37]

Bro the fact that poseidon brings up the crys is probably based on his personality, just that the cyclops constantly complaining was annoying

[@moss.notpanic]

​@@siramaytheshowgundragon HELP THIS COMMENT IS SENDING ME

[@rosethorn7255]

Remember Polythemus' actual curse upon Odysesus it was "You shall lose everysingle one of your crew, and you shall return home in a strranger's ship!"

[@danylonazarov]

18:09 it could also be him trying to be genuinly affectionate, even if a bit manipulative. Eurylochus is not only his second-in-command, but also brother-in-law, married to his sister, so really family, even if not blood-related

[@ajeeeezz]

but the point does still stand that he is trying the family affectionate route once his own words weren't enough. if that's not manipulation then idk

[@jlablue3401]

I don't think it's that manipulative. Odysseus has a habit of calling the crew his brothers. See The Horse and the Infant & Survive. And in this case Eurylochus called him brother first, so Ody is just doing the same thing.

[@niffleraku]

Thing is, i think it was a necessary move even if it was dubious. If eurylochus had dissatisfactions, he mustn't address it publicly with a crew stuck on a ship for months on end with no one but themselves, no where to go when they're dissatisfied, where doubt could very easily turn into violence with each other. When you're isolated from the rest of the world, the people you need to watch out for the most are the ones you're stuck with. That's why it was important for captains to maintain morale, even if there's some delusion in the mix. An assured crew is less likely to cause problems with each other. Even if one crew member is thinking negative thoughts, at the back of their minds there will always be the thought of "Captain knows what he's doing even if we're facing adversities". That's why Odysseus pulled him aside & said "Comply in this or we'll all die in this", it's not that he's ignoring what his crew is feeling, he's smart and he knows, but it's bc he knew that by eurylochus, their SECOND in command, basically publicly trying to put down odysseus' plans, it's started planting seeds of doubt And what happens later in Keep Your Friends Close? Bc of the doubt eurylochus planted in the crew's head, they no longer trusted odysseus' words when he said there was a storm in the bag, even though he was 100% telling the truth. Bc of the doubt, they would rather believe the winions over what he said, & that distrust cost them majority of the fleet. Yes the root cause of the deaths might've been bc poseidon knew his name, but if nobody opened the bag, who knows maybe they actually would've made it to land and they all would've met their families no matter what happens afterwards

[@ajeeeezz]

@@niffleraku you perfectly summed it up dude. Basically almost the entirety of the Odyssey is Ody just doing morally dubious (its Greek mythology, what do we expect lol) but necessary things for him to reach home. Sometimes questionable actions must take place for the plot to progress

[@JaelynMcgee]

One of my favorite moments of Eurylochus's songs is that Jorge gave him the crew's backing vocals and replies on all of his songs because he's the only one with the crew's best interests in mind in most cases.

[@dannyarcana0017]

Fyi, remember Ody is not only a captain, but a king. And Eurylocus basically trashed him in front all his subjects. Also, Poseidon is upset that someone had the balls and arrogance to hurt someone of godly stature and get away from it

[@ilikeswords5877]

8:29 you also hear this with the trumpets. Brass instruments are Poseidon's instrument, so it foreshadows that it was him who sent the storm. Also, after Poseidon says: "You could've avoided all this if you just killed my son" you hear a trumpet that resembles the melody of storm, which yet again shows musically that it was Poseidon who sent the storm.

[@riccardocastiglioni1611]

One thing about WolfytheWitch's depiction of Athena, beside looking cleaner in the animatic like you mentioned. Not only her eyes are pure white to emphasize "this being is not human", but her neck cranes and bends like an owl's would. I find that so cool!

[@anniefemmas5097]

10:24 You don't remember this because the island wasn't in the sky in the odyssey, it was just a "Floating Island IN THE SEA" But jalapenos said "Meh, he'll be in heaven"

[@SparklingFox51944]

Mr. Jalapeño didn't really know what the floating island was

[@phantomdemon1988]

In Greek mythology death is the most mercy that you can get from a god

[@louis6185]

Or just not ever encountering one.

[@Vegetafan1997]

This version of Athena I think genuinely does care about Odysseus, but her pride is also overshadowing this. She knows what's coming from his actions but his words to her are making her defensive. Culminating in her saying this is my goodbye over and over again. If she truly didn't care, she'd say it once and leave. Instead, it's like she wants him to react or come back.

[@SantosoWijaya]

And she would keep watching over him anyway. The piano motifs never really left.

[@darkmega24ify]

​@@SantosoWijayaher voice was also the backing vocals for "Wouldn't You Like" alluding to the fact that the flower Hermes gives Ody might have come from Athena herself

[@SingingSealRiana]

Also it is really hard to care for and try to help someone with selfdestructive behavior ...

[@SingingSealRiana]

Also it is really hard to care for and try to help someone with selfdestructive behavior ...

[@DrakeDragonton]

The musical is split into sagas, each having a theme. That’s why there was a sudden change in tone between the cyclops and ocean saga

[@Evnyofdeath]

So Jorge has said that while each character has an instrument that identifies them in music, Eurilycus's "instrument" is the voice of the crew. Thats why so many voices started joining him in Luck Runs Out. If he starts voicing something the crew follows his lead. So Odysseus pulled him aside to say he couldn't have him making the crew doubt his lead.

[@disableddragonborn]

Odysseus said "I am your darkest moment" and "Remember me" to Polyphemus, so Poseidon's throwing both back in his face.

[@AirQuotes2962]

I'd argue that Orpheus also didn't 'reek of false righteousness'. From what I can tell, he was a genuine good dude who really loved his wife and did a bunch of heroic stuff.

[@toryumau6798]

… Which is exactly why he got… “Punished”. >):’^c

[@SingingSealRiana]

Does anyone have dirt on nestor?

[@disableddragonborn]

"Everything's changed since Polites" used to be a painful line to hear, but after the first saga of Act Two, I'm emotionally traumatized, so it doesn't even hurt to WATCH Polites die in "Survive".

[@Ace-bt2yw]

For me it still hurts, but it doesn’t leave me bawling my bed for about an hour now lol

[@disableddragonborn]

@@Ace-bt2yw I know it's a controversial opinion, but I blame Polites for everything that happened after "Full Speed Ahead". Odysseus listened to him over his second-in-command on a matter directly connected to his responsibility to take care of his crew. Had they gone in, taken any food they could find, then left, Polites would've been pissed, but he'd be alive, and all 600 men under Odysseus's command would've made it home alive and on time.

[@Ace-bt2yw]

@@disableddragonborn I understand entirely what you are saying, but one thing. If they had gone to that island and grabbed all the food that they could find there, wouldn’t they have ended up with lotus fruit? They likely still would have run into the lotus eaters either be offered the fruit by them or take all the fruit from them by force until one of them realized what the fruit was, at which point they would need to go elsewhere to find food. While it isn’t certain that they would have gone to the cyclops’s cave, it is still possible, causing most of the story to play out as it had originally. Im sorry that this is so long, and i genuinely just want to put in my 2 cents on this! ❤️

[@disableddragonborn]

@@Ace-bt2yw I recently learned somewhere that apparently Troy is only about a 6 day sail from Ithaca, so it wouldn't have even been necessary to stop.

[@Ace-bt2yw]

@@disableddragonborn 6 days is still a long time to go without any food! (Also, that’s cool, i didn’t know that!)

[@disableddragonborn]

"This way, you're out of my head now." is super ironic, considering this whole conversation is happening with Athena's Quick Thought ability. It's all telepathic and taking no time whatsoever outside of his mind.

[@dewaunwarren1]

21:50 *A woman on a cloud* Airier: IS THAT FEM GOKU 😮

[@Airier]

When my mind wanders, usually it gets lost. This time it went to Dragon Ball. 😁

[@austinabishop5559]

"How the hell did he survive this?" Musical is the single most hilarious thing I've heard all year! LOL 😀

[@NeonIcyWings]

My interpretation of "Ruthlessness is Mercy Upon Ourselves" is basically, "Rather than risk my mercy coming back to hurt me, I will be ruthless to my enemies and allow no possibility of harm coming back to me." Kind of a no half measures philosophy. In a way Odysseus already knows this when Zeus pushed him to kill the infant, as Zeus claimed every merciful route would lead to the infant discovering his heritage and seeking revenge. Poseidon even says it in the song, if Odysseus just killed Polyphemus, Poseidon wouldn't have known who did it and thus Odysseus's crew wouldn't have gone from just under six hundred to forty three here and might have had an easier time getting home. Mercy can let others' ruthlessness come for you, while your ruthlessness is a mercy upon yourself. Not sure how well it'd work, but I think it'd be neat if you checked out other animatics of some of the songs once you catch up. Usually there tends to be one animatic that stands above the rest, like Gigi's Horse and the Infant, and Just A Man, Mircsy's Polyphemus and Survive, WolfytheWitch's Last Goodbye, which are basically definitive, but there are a few songs that have some alternate animatics that work so, so well. Personally the one I'd recommend, if you only watched one alternate animatic of the ones so far, is Anniflamma's animatic of Ruthlessness, which while missing the minor continuities of Gigi's, has amazing quality, motion and while a more lowkey design for Poseidon, they make up for it with great usage of Poseidon's character and mythology, and in a unique and fitting way that you just don't see from most Poseidon portrayals. Personally it is my vastly preferred Ruthlessness animatic. Plus I think it'd be a neat little thing to see how different artists interpret the same songs, but I'd understand if the idea of checking out different animatics for the same songs again might be uninspired. There's just so much artistic talent in the Epic community with so many great animatics that it's a shame we all can only experience one of them truly for the first time. But, great reaction and analysis to these amazing songs and animatics!

[@felpsp1493]

!!!

[@igor2120]

Actually, there's a version of the myth where Aeolus, the lord of all winds, help Odysseus. He gives the man the wind bag, then some of their crew members opened because they assumed Ody had a treasure that he didn't want to share. After that, he returns to Aeolia (The City In The Sky), and asks for help again, and Aelous says: no f*cking way.

[@SingingSealRiana]

But he aint a god, and he did not have an island in the sky

[@igor2120]

@@SingingSealRiana Dude, he IS a god, and yes, Aeolia is an Island in the sky. There's a lot of stories today that were inspired to this myth: We have Percy Jackson in The Lost Hero, where they reach Aeolia and meet Aeolus, One Piece (Skypea is literally an Island in the Sky). You can't take a story that has many different versions and assume one is the only truth.

[@dadab22]

You should watch the AnniFlamma version of Ruthlessnes too, because it is a unique and fantastic take on Posidon. And there are some really fascinating imagery used.

[@darkmega24ify]

That smiling horse saying "Die" lives rent free in my head

[@nightbird9551]

Yes absolutely! And the one by Neal Illustrator is also great. I Love This Community

[@themanbehindtheslaughter8693]

The "We took no pleasure in his pain" Part is so good because not only is he trying to pander to Posiden, he's also just straight up lying, because he clearly DID get satisfaction from seeing the Cyclops get blinded from what he says while in the process of leaking his social security number. He was taking pride in it from how he said he was the Cyclops' darkest moment (Something immediately thrown into his face) and how it should remember him next time it wants to be Ruthless.

[@ezraabbadon5082]

2:34 "Odysseus, buddy, this is notthe time to get sassy, to your devine sugar momma" -mortius

[@disableddragonborn]

23:46 Interesting choice by Gigi to depict Elpenor (bearded big guy) and Perimedes ("Open the bag!" guy) like that, because Elpenor was the youngest man under Odysseus's command, so depicting him as Hagrid-esque and Perimedes as looking younger is a fascinating choice. Also, Elpenor is voiced by Luke Holt, the voice of Zeus.

[@piraptor5677]

33:06 I believe that the whole thing poseidon is trying to say in the context of this musical is that by being ruthless when it comes to your foes or enemies, you're being merciful to your self and risking less as mercy has a price and risk. If he just chose to be ruthless and kill the cyclops he wouldn't now be dealing with an angry sea god hunting him down, instead he chose not to further bloody his hands and even gave away his true name as he sailed away

[@TheSilversepiroth]

I don't think I've seen a _bad_ iteration of Ruthlessness in the animatics. Gigi's is the best in maintaining the directional cohesion between Keep Your Friends Close and Ruthlessness, AnniFlamma's *_OWNS_* the aspect of horses in Poseidon's portfolio between the consistent shape of hippocampus that comes up as he's moving through the water (not to mention just rubbing the death of Hector's child in Odysseus' face,) or TacoDraws having arguably the best designed version of Poseidon, all of them are just incredible. Also literally everybody agrees that Poseidon's just putting hands on Odysseus for like half the song

[@Ekami-chan]

Finally legit reaction to Odysseus telling off Athena! 😁 Also, recommendations, Anniflamma's Ruthlessness Wolfythewitch's first Just a man (makes me cry so hard) Crashite's Luck runs out Ximena Natzel's Suffering (once you get to it)

[@londonjedi]

Aeolia was said to be a floating island and Jorge decided to have it float in the sky instead of in the sea like Homer was referring to. Also, only 7 men died to the Cyclops. It still was disheartening for all of them but it was not actually that many.

[@yasminvale1022]

"Wait, 'I'm the same'..? Why do I feel this is a profetic line?" OH BOY *sweating *

[@ChuncheeCat]

To clarify the goodbye "ghosts". That is not a canon thing Athena can do, that is the animator popping off. What the comments mean with "she can summon a choir" is there is a rule in Epic that all vocals must be present in the actual story, best example is Open arms. (where it starts out with just Odysseus and Polites singing, then after meeting the lotus eaters, they also sing as background vocals.) The exception, is gods. All gods can summon their own background vocals, hence the choir when she says "just a man", despite it only being Athena and Odysseus actually present. She didn't summon ghosts, the animator just added that flare to make us all cry.

[@blood_demon]

There is another animatic for Ruthlessness by AnniFlamma which I would strongly recommend, it's a masterpiece.

[@ThePorcelainLily]

Yesss, AnniFlamma's is amazing (so is Gigi's too of course)

[@SunsetScepter]

One important thing regarding ruthlessness is, in ancient Greek culture, showing mercy to your enemy was considered the most disrespectful thing you can do in battle. If you were shown mercy it was interpreted to be an insult against the warrior and against his entire family in the process. So by sparing polyphemus, Odysseus basically by ancient Greek custom was saying "you aren't even a foe worth killing" which of course was seen as an insult upon his father Poseidon as well

[@StormTalara]

The line from Poseidon “I am your darkest moment” is a callback to what Odyssey said to the cyclops as he was sailing away and doxing himself in arrogance.

[@lynaxfrost]

…Immediately painful you say. Oh. It ONLY GETS WORSE. 🎀

[@Brits_W0rld]

TOTALY AGREE

[@aspen1889]

So in my perception of Ruthlessness, Poseidon isn't actually mad because Odysseus blinded his son or because "heroes should kill" though I'm sure he did care for his kid. He's mad because by not killing him and by telling his son his name, hes invited vengeance. Vengeance and pettiness thrives in almost all of Greek mythology and they're rules the Gods have to live by if they don't wanna be forgotten. Athenas entire drive is to be known in this musical, and in an unreleased song Poseidon says he HAS to kill Odysseus because otherwise the world will forget he is a God above men. If Odysseus had killed the cyclops, he wouldn't have been able to request vengeance through Poseidon. If he hadn't shouted his name in pride, the Cyclops wouldn't know who to request vengeance on. Ruthlessness would have been mercy upon himself, because if the one you've wronged is dead they can't come back to bite you. He's mad that Odysseus considered himself above the rules even the Gods abide by, and this is how he teaches him to follow them. Atleast that's how I perceive it- but with ur knowledge I'm sure u have ur own interpretations

[@disableddragonborn]

Even a genuine apology wouldn't have saved Odysseus, because apologizing isn't ruthless, which is what Poseidon is trying to instill on him, hence Poseidon's response, "The line between naiveté and hopefulness is almost invisible."

[@Jakiii_th3rat]

“They’re planning a mutiny aren’t they” *the thunder saga slowly creeps up, maliciously laughing*

[@jkosch]

AnniFlamma has a very good animatic of Ruthlessness. It really makes good use of Poseidon being the Earthshaker and his association with horses. Also AnniFlammas Epic animatics add another layer of consistency with things like Chontic-Oceanic magical effects always being a blue-cyan spectrum and various references to the mythology that are not so common knowledge (like the chontic aspect of Poseidon, Circe being part Sea Nymph etc.).

[@Softieeee]

my favorite thing about "Ruthlessness" is that Poseidon is quoting the same thing Odysseus says to Polyphemus. "I am your darkest moment" and "Remember me" are the last couple lines from the song "Remember Them" and that callback is absolutely insanity

[@BlackDragon41sbm]

"I am your darkest moment" Ody said that same line to the cyclops, Poseidon just gave the same line in return.

[@Kilehune]

How did I JUST notice that Poseidon taunts Odysseus even more by quoting (saying “I am your darkest moment) what Oddyseus said to the cyclops!?

[@Obsidianen]

It's funny how Poseidon gave him a chance to actually apologize, and he used it to defend his actions instead of just saying that he is sorry for what he did t the cyclops.

[@jlablue3401]

26:00 You're sort of right. He did miss the solution he was given, but it wasn't the one you thought. The hint he was given is "Sometimes killing is a must. Cause the end always justifies the means." But he's not willing to kill any of his crew. The hint the crew was given is "Sometimes sneaking is a must. Cause the end always justifies the means." The crew wanted to see what was in the bag, and they were willing to sneak behind Ody's back to do it. He knew this, but instead of using his cunning and wit he tried to brute force it by staying awake the whole time. He wanted to get home safely, but he wasn't willing to kill to do it. In the end... the crew got what they wanted and everyone suffered for it.

[@issacwills8905]

Since I didn't see anyone else mention it Jorge's name is pronounced like "Hor(Like Horse)-Hey" It's a Spanish name and most with a J are said with an H instead. Like Jesús! Also, any of the animatics by AnniFlama are highly recommended. Her animatic of Ruthlessness is one of the most popular!

[@callmetrinikins5941]

I don't know if someone already told you, but it's always nice to note that the gods are able to summon choirs/backing vocals because... well, they are gods. Whenever someone else is singing with other voices, they must always be from someone who is present in the scene: so when Odysseus is singing with others, those other voices are usually the soldiers. Also, every character has their own instrument linked to them (Odysseus with the guitar, Penelope viola, Athena piano, etc.), but not Eurylochus: he is the voice of the crew, and his "instrument" IS the crew. That is very evident in Luck Runs Out, when he's talking with Odysseus and the crew slowly comes up more in the chorus, because those are also doubts they had and were turning on their captain.

[@disableddragonborn]

I'm a Hellenic Pagan, meaning I worship the Greek gods. Well, to an extent. My patron is Dionysus (most of the others have bad blood with each other so I try to not get involved with that) and (I know how goofy and mystic this sounds) I've developed a sort of connection with Dionysus where I sometimes feel a sensation I interpret as sort of a "Dionysus Approves" thing, and 31:01 gave me what I assume is a "Dionysus Disapproves" sensation, because Dionysus had better be included in that "very few" category. I connect with Dionysus because I feel like they are the one god that feels as close to a mortal person as possible. Dionysus isn't as high-and-mighty as the others.

[@cheyennepalmer1103]

You mentioned all the call backs Jorge makes, but didnt mention one of my personal favorites. When Poseidon says "I am your darkest moment" he is smugly referencing the line Odysseus said to his son before releaving his name.

[@matthewdougherty1159]

from what i remember could be wrong. Aeolus gave Odysseus a bag containing all the winds that could hinder the journey home but told him he could not tell anyone what was in the bag and his crew opened the bag when he was sleeping thinking it was treasure or something like that it. has been years since i read the odyssey i could be thinking of a other story lol

[@royalblu1100]

Yeah that's what happens, they go back to aelous to ask him to do it again and he basically says absolutely not your on your own dude and sends oddyseus on his way

[@SingingSealRiana]

Thatd pretty much exactly how it went

[@mrnivedozumbuehl8709]

the way i understood the Ruthlessness is MERCY upon ourselves. ourselves is in reference to the gods, and if you want to show them mercy, you must be ruthless by not sparing their lives. by showing mercy in a human way, it turns out to be the complete opposite to the gods. Thats why poseidon was upset about Ody not killing and only maiming Polyphemus.

[@altarudragonspirit4016]

I'm sure people already mentioned this in the previous video, but EPIC is split into multiple Sagas, separated by release. You actually ended up ending the last video one song before the end of the 'Cyclops Saga', lol 7:40 The end of 'My Goodbye' is a callback to 'Warrior of the Mind'; the first time she sings the line "This is my goodbye" she ends it in a run, like how she did when she was singing alongside Oddyseus, but the last time she sings it, she ends it by holding the note like she did before having taken him under her wing, being a sign that she's cutting him off 9:01 iirc, their name is pronounced 'Himena' 10:12 The whole 'floating island' thing was a misinterpretation Jorge made about Aeolus' home; I think I read somewhere that it was a 'floating island' as in it was island in the water that wasn't attached to or being held up by any landmasses. He didn't notice the mistake until people pointed it out and by that point it had already been released I think, lol 14:34 By the way, it's entirely ok to just have the captions on during these reactions; I think that the community would welcome it, actually 21:53 I think Gigi was going more for Lakitu (Mario) vibes with their design, actually 36:05 The "I am your darkest moment" line is a direct callback to the end of 'Remember Them', where Oddyseus says the same line to Polyphemus

[@RayGainbows]

"How the Hell Did He Survive This, the musical"🤣

[@christianr1517]

I think what your missing in the first few songs the cyclops is the first time in 10 years where something went wrong. It was also his quick thinking with the wine that got them out of the situation. To be fair to they where starving and they did get the food they needed. For him to be openly challenged like that the first time something didn't go 100% perfect is unreasonable. Then to go as far as to disobey a direct order and open the bag is inexcusable. Fun fact when they opened the bag the shore of home was visible they where a just hours from being home and the journey ending.

[@larissaguilger1153]

Honestly, you have one of the best epic the musical react I've seen so far, I can't wait for more! Greetings from Brazil

[@larissaguilger1153]

Also, "I am your darkest moment" is the SAME thing Odysseus told Polyphemus, so Poseidon is just making even more fun of him

[@Airier]

I missed that call back. Makes the entire beat down feel even better (or worse for Odysseus).

[@SauceyRedHN]

I just became a member hoping that the next part had already been uploaded because I could NOT wait however many days to see it, and holy shit I'm so glad I did because it's here!

[@Airier]

😊👍

[@sapientbirb7350]

​@@AirierThis musical has become an addiction of mine, and I blame you for it.

[@Harryourbuddy]

The reason he said ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves is because Odysseus left Polyphemus in pain blind instead of just killing him

[@jasmineputal82]

The line ‘I’m the same’ in “Keep Your Friends” just hurts when thinking about the more recent songs. Thank you for checking out this series! My Goodbye was the first song I heard from it.

[@ELStogs762]

Putting it on record that only 7 people died to the cyclops, and would have been a lot more if Odysseus didn't act with the lotus wine... so the majority of people were killed because the wind bag was opened... because they could SEE Ithaca when that happened. So even if Poseidon still went after Odysseus, everyone else would have made it home first. I love Eurylochus, but so much of it is his fault in not trusting his Captain/King when he really hadn't steered them wrong before that. If they all had listened, they all would have lived.

[@teddytackleson595]

I would highly recommend watching Ximena Natzel’s “Keep Your Friends Close” and AnniFlamma’s “Ruthlessness”. Both animatics are spectacular and being totally different things to the table as the two you watched in this video (all though those animatics are also amazing)!

[@firebreathingmoonbeam3961]

Poseidon saying hes Odysseus's darkest moment is a refernece to Odysseus saying that to the cyclops.

[@NP3GA]

AnniFlama also made an awesome adaptation of Ruthlessness

[@thereallycao9775]

I hadn’t seen it mentioned: but during “Luck Runs Out” when Odysseus brushes away Eurilucous’ hand he uses his right hand, but when he reaches out with the “Brother I can assure you” line he uses his left hand which is still wrapped in Polites’ head wrap. It’s showing his ruthless Captain side (right hand) and his attempt at being a kinder man (left hand) perfectly. I just thought it was a neat little very subtle animation choice and it’s perfect. Edit: I just noticed they do it each time he has to change up which makes me love it even more because I didn’t even notice it everywhere until now.

[@silverdust4197]

To play devil's advocate, Blinding the cyclops would be worse than killing him in context . Death is just a permanent visit to his uncle. While now he has to love blinded and still eventually die.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Agree, also humiliating and taunting him was needleslly cruel and honor was a big deal to the greeks, he treated him like something undeserving of honor

[@Megamanlanprime]

One thing I find amusing but probably bad is that Odysseus literally just pulled rank on his second in command in the end of Luck Runs Out. I think that’s pretty interesting and a sign he doesn’t want to listen to criticism which isn’t good… Also fun fact: Poseidon full on was lying when he says “Unless you apologize for my son’s pain and all his cries” because he ALWAYS intended on killing them. That’s the point of the song, they were not Ruthless so he had to do this so he will be Ruthless and finish them off no matter what. In fact that’s the meaning of the line “The line between naivety and hopefulness is almost invisible” in other words saying “you didn’t learn your lesson at all.” Also there is an alternate animatic for Ruthlessness that I love being from Aniflamma.

[@dragonstouch1042]

In fairness, Eury isn’t offering many alternatives

[@Megamanlanprime]

@@dragonstouch1042 No he’s not.

[@imagoatiswear1938]

I reccomend checking out anniflamma's version of ruthlessness later also! That animation is also so good

[@justyouraveragenerd5152]

So for the island in the sky Jorge thought "floating island, home of the wind god, it must be in the sky" and it was too late for him to change it when he found out floating islands were a real thing

[@brendansdnd1726]

"Moment so far" made me choke on my drink laughing. I've read the Odyssey so many times and truer words have never been spoken.

[@miam6144]

19:19 I mean in Odysseus’ defense he was going against mortal enemies who can easily be outwitted and are equal in terms of strength in the first 10 years vs literal monsters and gods through the last 10

[@Rcmkney23]

I don’t think the wind god fucked with him. He asked her to help, she presented a deal and warned what to look out for. Ya the treasure drop was a little chaos but gods rarely give help without some test

[@SingingSealRiana]

They fucked with him they had fun with this, just like zeus... They very deliberately gave the instructions and all in a way that would creat discord In odysse he did notx but also was not a god

[@Ash50003]

Seeing this on my feed made me feel so happy, being stuck in the ICU is boring, this lifted my spirits

[@Airier]

Hope you get better soon, then. Good luck.

[@apersonontheinternet9085]

I never realized how much foreshadowing that... certain parts of the Ocean Saga contain. (I don't want to spoil anything because I'm staying vague, but... remember that animatic for Luck Runs Out. It'll be a surprise tool that will hurt us later!)

[@SingingSealRiana]

It turned from worry out of care for ody into worry that ody had become the threat

[@madebyoneart]

Whenever someone asks, " what's a winon?" All I can think about us fans popping up, locking arms and singing. " we represent the lollipop guild~ the lollipop guild!~"

[@Neffffi]

The reason Poseidon doesnt except Odysseus' apology is not because odysseus doesnt apologize but rather poseidon the whole song is saying dont spare people and odysseus expects him to spare him.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Honestly we will never know given odysseus did not even try. Pretty good cade csn be made, that poseidon dud not care either way, but that does not change that ody thought hinself above appologising and instead trued to sweettalk his way out by claiming he did the right thing anyways.... They both suck. Poseidon probably would not have mercy but odysseus also kinda did not earn it in the first place. He reeped exactly what he had sawn

[@BeyondTrash-xe1vs]

​@@SingingSealRianayou're projecting our culture onto the Greeks. In their culture, apologizing meant explain your actions. Odyseeus did apologize, it just didn't matter.

[@disableddragonborn]

Notice how when they first met, Athena held the note, and Odysseus did a run, then as they grew closer, she stopped holding the note, but in her final, "This is my goodbye!" she holds the note. She's done with Odysseus.

[@a.conant9988]

The fact ody didn't really apologize and was just trying to justify his actions *shakes head*

[@draeonic]

Yeah. It probably wouldn't have changed much but he could have *tried*

[@Nanette-Book-Lover]

His arrogance is shown once again.

[@zarahjames_]

The comment to Eurylochos being his brother is because in the original myth Eury was married to Odys sister, making him his brother in law (and in the past 10 years his brother in arms) Also I see Ruthlessness also kinda like a message Poseidon is sending Ody, in a I expected more of you kinda way