Airline Pilot Won't Follow Instructions

There are certain standards you would give for pilots at different points in their career. From an airline pilot I would expect more.
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[@charlayned]

"Keep the blue side up." My beloved husband was someone who wished he could have flown back when he was younger. He loved your channel and we would always sit together and watch your videos. Afterward, he would go over to his computer and fly X-Plane with the cockpit setup (engine handles, yoke, rudder pedals). I don't think we've missed a video since we discovered you a couple years ago. We both learned something every time you made one. This was the first one I've watched solo, he passed away on the 30th. I know he probably found a plane in heaven and is trying to fly, that would be like him. Thanks for doing these and giving me great memories. I will continue to watch this channel and look forward to the blue side sign off. Thanks Kelsey.

[@AdriDelPino]

Sorry for your loss.

[@debmec]

He’s in the blue skies! Take care of yourself!

[@elissahunt]

So sorry for your loss. I'm glad that Kelsey's channel brings you good memories.

[@johntollini6095]

As retired ATC, I agree with most of your comments however keep in mind that PHL approach was working him (I recognized the phone number) so it would have taken more coordination to have TEB ATCT handle it. Sad thing is that i recognized the number 40+ years after I left there.

[@DougHill-g7j]

Boost this comment, explains the controller's decision.

[@karinwymer3548]

So what happened? Did he land there?

[@rElliot09]

I'm a retired Navy pilot and former NetJets pilot. I flew the awesome Citation Sovereign. As I recall, the mins to get hired when I applied was 3000 hours. I would say that ninety percent of the pilots I flew with were rock solid. I flew out of Teterboro quite a bit, and it was always very busy. I tell you, though, I've heard controllers in that area go off on pilots, yelling, lecturing, etc. It is stressful flying in that area and easy to lose it no doubt. Sometimes, you just have to step back, relax, and focus.

[@aa-ze5cz]

Family member was a commercial check airman (years after being a distinguished Captain in both military and commercial) and he told me about check rides and how some pilots (both 3 and 4 stripes) got so nervous. He'd once in a while stop the sim and just say, "Relax, you know what you're doing... just FLY THE PLANE." I put those letters in caps, because sometimes that's what it came down to from him. Fly the plane, take a moment, focus, follow procedure (you know what to do, I know you're prepared) and fly the plane first and foremost. Anyway, thanks for your service!

[@Midnight.Rain.747.]

navy!! thank you for your service

[@peepers46]

FLY NAVY!! Thank you for your service (former Army MP here)

[@RickOSidhe]

From what I remember of the sectional, TEB is Class D with a 2500 ft MSL ceiling and lies underneath the New York bravo airspace. So whatever led to the crossing restriction deviations is definitely going to end up in a friendly chat between the FAA and PIC/PF. As Kelsey noted, the TRACON controller seemed pretty laid back at first, but let his agitation take over as the non-compliance continued. Given the recent spate of accidents and near-misses across the ATC system in the past few years due to controller shortages and resulting increased workload, my reaction is to give the controller a break. No idea the length of the shift, where he was in his shift, how many days the dude's been working with minimal time off, etc. Look at what the NTSB is reporting for DCA Tower staff - Undermanned shifts that last for 10 hours, for 6 days in a row, with one day off before the cycle repeats. It can be /really/ difficult to stay mentally/emotionally centered while working 60-hour weeks in a high-stress job, where you're actually doing the jobs of multiple controllers at once due to staff shortages, and you're faced with someone who doesn't/can't/is unable to comply with directives. Just my $.02

[@joshuawelsh9443]

FLY NAVY !!!🛫

[@natemunao3451]

I'm not a pilot, but I love the way you expain everything.

[@davidp2888]

Always a good day when Kelsey uploads.

[@nickmerrylees8478]

Getting phone numbers including flight attendants lol. Best to focus on one stick while flying.

[@xxlocobassistxx]

🤨

[@LAppleDumpling]

😂❤

[@LewisTheFly888]

Very dry. Lol

[@joex24b]

That was a nice touch of injected humor, who could resist that kind of phone number!

[@joex24b]

@@P.Paramo ?

[@airbrushken5339]

I was Airborne, 101st Airborne back in 69. I was sent to Leadership Academy at Fort Polk, LA. And... it was all about "Positive Motivation". My men have a mission and I need them to really focus on that job and their part in it. We're talking about "nose to nose" in triple canopy Jungle combat in the "A Shaw Valley" (Hamburger Hill). Yelling, berating and embarrassing that Trooper or those Troopers never works well... makes great TV "Clint", but in combat we all have a job that MUST be done right or we will die. Great explanation my man.

[@jamesromanoski7292]

Thank you for the positive reinforcement and for your service to our country.

[@BerraLJ]

I can imagine the pilots frustration, if you miss one thing, you get stressed and the risk of missing more things increase.

[@joex24b]

It sure has an ability to cascade.

[@Napa39]

This is one of those rare "everyone messed up" situations. Pilot messed up and didn't really admit to it or commit to doing better, and ATC wasn't helping by reprimanding them while they're still flying.

[@sequoiasemperviren3163]

Kelsey is building ATC’s library of training films.

[@baomao7243]

I think this is all building up to a giant Kelsey’s Follies pay-per-view event…

[@zxr92]

I recently was flying over a Bravo airport and three of us had really close call signs. ATC was aware enough to alert us and then add a quick model like adding the airline/flight. It really helped with any confusion. Thanks ATC!

[@HoldTheLine1990]

Agreed. It’s not the role of an active controller to verbally reprimand a pilot. There is a dedicated process for ATC, the FAA and a pilot to handle a nav or altitude deviation. Agreed, ATC should know where and when it’s time to issue a phone number and in the terminal area (and in a sterile cockpit environment) is not the time.

[@RickOSidhe]

No, it's not. Consider, however, that the controllers are working the busiest airspace in the NAS (New York Class B), with one controller potentially handling what should be the jobs of two controllers, are likely working very long hours (10 hour shifts for 6 days with a 1-day break before doing it again), and thus are having difficulty staying emotionally centered when faced with communications/language barriers and/or non-compliance with directives. This controller definitely could have done a better job handling the aircraft, but my personal take is that the blame ultimately lies with the FAA/FedGov for creating the situation in the first place.

[@piotr2951]

@@RickOSidhe Not an excuse for unprofessionalism

[@johntollini6095]

Keep in mind the area. We are talking about NYC/NJ/Philly. He was actually pretty chill for the area

[@reppi8742]

@@RickOSidheand consider that the most dangerous part of this flight is landing. The ATC needed to keep his cool.

[@darrylday30]

“unable, standby”, magic words. Thanks so much Kelsey. I’m working my multi engine instrument rating and this stuff is pure gold.

[@jeromethiel4323]

That's not a get out of jail free card. You're going to have to explain after the fact why you were "unable." And your answer had better hold up. If you are really having issues, great, let ATC know so they can help you.

[@darrylday30]

@ Good point, I wouldn’t use it unless I really had a problem. It would give me a moment to regain situational awareness and figure out what I need and ask for help.

[@AllanAdamson]

Admiral Grace Hopper once said that we all struggle with prioritization .. and what was most important there, him landing the plane.. not an immediate investigation as the traffic controller was doing

[@joannmay-anthony1076]

Admiral Grace Hopper is one of my biggest heroes. I just loved her!!!!

[@RickOSidhe]

I watched Adm. Hopper give a seminar where she discussed the importance of optimizing code. She used physical props to show the difference between a microsecond and a nanosecond. The ms prop was a substantial coil of copper wire that she struggled to hold. The nanosecond prop was the same gauge wire, but it was only a few inches in length. Her example has stuck with me over the decades as a reminder and goad to avoid bloat and optimize, optimize, optimize.

[@AllanAdamson]

@@RickOSidhe in the early 80's she warned people that anyone can write code that will run on your computer, something people weren't really that aware of back then

[@RickOSidhe]

@ Indeed, they can. And now "AI has made programmers obsolete!" Really? AI is so helpful - as an example, ask Copilot "How do I do this thing?" Its incredibly helpful advice is often along the lines of "Step 1: Do the thing" :)

[@GoodOldGamer]

I'm starting to believe ATCs need some training in deescalating situations. A simple "Do you need me to give you a holding pattern to get caught up on tasks? Or would you prefer to go to your alternate airport?" or something similar would go a long way to making things better. Being dead set on the que is only gonna cause accidents.

[@kenbrown2808]

hearing some of the things I've heard about the state of ATC in the last year or so leaves me thinking some controllers are "behind the plane" as well.and that it may get worse before it gets better.

[@BigPapa_2001]

​@@kenbrown2808 There is a serious problem with ATC. I do not think aviation is safe right now and there is more bent metal on the horizon.

[@frgv4060]

Or perhaps we need an ATC youtuber giving its point of view 😂

[@janemiettinen5176]

As long as it’s not the same classes as American law enforcement go through. That training doesn’t seem to stick; in fact, it seems to have the exact opposite effect..

[@RonSwansons-0]

@@ustelephone Chopper was too high and twice told ATC he had visual on the aircraft, and said they wanted visual separation twice. It's the chopper pilots fault and a stupid routing system. Individual error by pilot made worse by a systemic failure.

[@paulholmes672]

Having watched your videos over the past few years it is real nice to see how you have self improved and the reason why you have those more colorful epaulets. Listening to you minimalize your own flying abilities is something a lot of great professional pilots do (at least the ones I deal with), when I know through their body of work and the assignments or opportunities they are given, that they are 'damned good!' or in my mostly military world, are considered "Sh%& Hot!". Take care Kelsey, and keep up the good work!!

[@WVmedic511]

I learned to fly (private) in the 90's and really never had to deal with instrument approaches and ultra-busy airspaces, but I always did what ATC told me to do. Granted, at that time, it was inappropriate for the controller to chew the guys ass over the air. HOWEVER, being a controller in the busiest airspace in the world, as you know, it is extremely important to hit your marks. The lives of hundreds of other people in the air and on the ground are counting on you to not fly into somebody that was using that 3000 foot level when you were supposed to be at 2000. I get the stress of the controller, too. Expectations are high with everybody except the crew on ExecJet 636. BTW, I've been watching you forever and love your content !!!!

[@william_mac]

Exactly Kelsey. It's all about communication. In hindsight this last week....what a disaster for air traffic controllers, the military & the families and friends of the dead. There's always room to do better!

[@mickkidston7344]

s'ok, now doge and daddy elon have got the reins

[@alexanderscottrell8627]

@@mickkidston7344temporary reprieve from that . One of your judges blocked their access

[@gofres]

Pilot was flying Snoop Dog in the back and got confused with a 3 hour hot box flight.

[@dianec66]

🤣🤣🤣

[@davidhorizon8401]

Good morning from Arkansas. Funny how I feel like Kelsey is a friend from watching his videos, but of course we have never met. Thanks for another great video.

[@quodsum7912]

Something is definitely wrong with the crew, but ATC making it 10x worse.

[@hikingwiththedog6078]

I'm not a pilot, but when I make a mistake it's possible for me to get nervous and lose focus, and I see that happen with other people, too. It seems like ATC should be striving to help pilots recover their focus after making errors. That controller sounds like he forgot his job is to keep people safe.

[@guitarheaven1747]

As a pilot, I've had that happen to me twice during flight training (luckily never in really dense airspaces or anything). Especially the second time I won't ever forget, since we were flying to a different country who handle their approaches a lot differently (germany's always up with "state your intentions", want to know everything up front, in Sweden on the other hand they didn't really seem to care all that much, and I fell massively behind kind of expecting them to talk to me instead of me having to notify them of everything). I got stressed there, then struggled to properly understand just what the controllers were even saying, plus a flight instructor who kept pushing me from the side and a damn NDB approach with needle swing on short final on top, I got completely overloaded. Never managed to regain my composure during that flight, and was utterly pissed off at myself after the final landing. Had the stress come in a sim check for an airline a few months back, but luckily noticed I was drifting into this kind of apathetic incapability of acting, realized I had that problem and took a few seconds to tell myself "alright, that happened, screw it. Reset, nothing of that anymore, just look forward", and somehow, it really worked. Made quite a lot of little mistakes prior, but the last approach thereafter I nailed. Honestly think one of the hardest parts in such a situation is actually realizing you're drifting into that situation and acting in time, rather than having only the benefit of hindsight. Though normally I'd say, multicrew operations do help massively (both these occurences I described had been essentially single pilot ops), so I too am a bit surprised that both failed to catch especially the second clearance.

[@hikingwiththedog6078]

@@guitarheaven1747 That's fascinating. Reading your experience might help me in other situations.

[@MrJohnBos]

The ExecJet pilot definitely needs to go back to flight school and the controller could use a refresher course as well.

[@thatjpwing]

I agree with you on this. The reprimand was unnecessary and should have been handled via phone call. Copying the phone number down while on the approach is just adding to pilot load. I'm really surprised at "definite pilot deviation" because that would seem to open a weird legal can of worms. I've never enjoyed flying in any of that airspace, even as a private pilot. Not because of the speed of ATC or the congestion, but more because of the attitude of too many of ATC.

[@deantait8326]

The FAA needs to hire more controllers and only worry about competence in hiring

[@HoldTheLine1990]

The area out there around STRAD or SKUBY is traffic above ya going into EWR Rwy 22 and ya gotta be down at the charted altitudes. Being at 4,000 won’t go over well…as we see. Wonder what was going on in this cockpit? IOE maybe? Fatigue? Newly minted FO who’s new to the Garmin and a newly upgraded Captain and also new to the Garmin? There was something or somethings which lead to the confusion.

[@colonelingus5793]

Man... These lil radio slaps on the hands are important. Then! We have you and other new and future pilots who share it! This is education.

[@aaronegbers7502]

Not to be condescending but geezz, there’s two pilots in that NetJet plane. I fly a Phenom 300E single pilot and have several times thought how easy and boring this job would be with a co-pilot. There’s no excuse for what happened here but maybe they had something going on they didn’t want to reveal to the controller…unruly pax, pax talking their ear off…maybe the crew had been arguing. Even then the Garmin’s will do it all including vertical navigation with step downs. This is a strange one

[@Styk33]

Your last statement is what I was thinking. I️ have the approach loaded and when I️ get a call to be at 3;000, it’s not that difficult to scroll through and adjust the approach, or just change the alt with the knob.

[@lockedonlaw]

I could never be ATC. "Boeing 123, what in the actual fuck do you consider yourself to be doing?" Yep. I'd get fired.

[@Lori-d1j]

MMEEE TOO!!

[@ibrahim-sj2cr]

think of yourself like a shepherd herding sheep... always gonna be a few who wonder off and do their own thing

[@barbarachambers7974]

I read somewhere that a bunch of controllers in that area were reassigned. They were replaced by a bunch of other controllers who caused a lot of chaos and delayed flights.

[@derbenutzer179]

Kelsey you are doing this very well and very interesting, you deserve a big thank you! Keep up the good work! English is not my mother tongue (it's German), but I understand the language very well and speak it fluently. Nevertheless, the typical ATC English, which is spoken incredibly quickly, would certainly take me months of practice. Both listening and speaking. I have the greatest respect for all pilots who have these language skills perfectly. Especially considering the typical quality of the radio technology in use. Admirable! Best wishes to all!

[@ibrahim-sj2cr]

its mostly the same words over and over rarely is there conversational english spoken. you'd be fine

[@BishopStars]

Yeah, it's difficult to listen at high speed in another language. These ATC calls were very easy for a native English speaking non-pilot.

[@dean9498]

Always learning something new here. Love this channel.

[@LWCobra]

You're correct about everything you cover in this video. Unfortunately, most FAA controllers have never been on the flight deck of a big jet or haven't been trained on what pilots are doing below 10,000 in the sterile cockpit. Every facility has that one guy/girl who doesn't know when to shut-up and handles situations like this poorly. The controller's phraseology isn't exactly on-par here either, so in the end it's a lose/lose.

[@saulnier]

As a former dispatcher for a major we were required to jump seat a certain amount of hours/flights within a certain amount of calendar months (I forgot the specifics). And I know our company invited ATC (tower and approach) to do the same at our base (PHX), but I think that was voluntary on part of the controllers (probably not compensated). Anyway, might be a good idea but I'm sure that was already considered... .

[@MrBeatboxmasta]

@@saulnier The problem with having ATC jump seats is it would increase the workload on their already criminally understaffed industry.

[@saulnier]

@@MrBeatboxmasta Yes I am aware. Those were different times. As a matter of fact 3 of my colleagues were ex-PATCO laid off during the Raegan administration... .

[@johntollini6095]

Pre 9/11 controllers were able to jumpsuit with most airlines and military. I took advantage of every opportunity to observe the system from the pilot's perspective. One of my first trips i got to see one of Kelsey's comments in action. Last clearance from ZCW was an aggressive crossing restriction. The crew was OK here we go, pulled the power back and dropped the nose. It was amazing all the alarms that go off going through 495 it's! Then switched to ZCC and the panicked first words from Cleveland were REDUCE TO 250kts. Captain looked back at me in the jumpsuit as he told ZCC that he could have his altitude or airspeed, but not both.

[@jokerace8227]

Overall I sympathize with the Controller's frustration given it's not hard to change altitude in that pilot's particular phase of the approach. Always best to read the instructions back to the Controller, mainly so they know you have heard their instructions correctly, and they can at least trust that you're carrying out those instructions so they can monitor the airspace as a whole, not get distracted away from the rest of the air traffic they need to monitor and control in order to keep everyone safely flying.

[@johnhanson9245]

"Always best to read the instructions back to the Controller, " Hmmm....It is required to read them back

[@jokerace8227]

@@johnhanson9245 Yes, that's why the incident he's talking about is so odd. I've heard of shortening the readback to less words in certain situations, but outright not giving the controller an instructions readback is itself a bad deviation in the basics of how to talk to ATC.

[@RobsNeighbor]

I have a great Sunday everyone thank you Kelsey

[@Bugdriver49]

30 years retired I'm 75 now....I was flying corporate when the controllers went on strike......Horrible times that, flying from a small airport in TX. Since the ATC system was being run with a skeleton staff, it could only handle a limited number of aircraft. The system was supposed to be first come first served, so it became necessary, for an early morning departure, to get up in the wee hours to reserve a slot, then try to finish sleeping. Smaller airports were only given 2 slots per hour, and with several other corporate birds based there, you had to get slick if you wanted to get YOUR BOSS to his meetings! With a limited number of IFR departures so for about a year if I had an early morning departure, I would have to wake up in the wee hours in order to reserve a slot, or get fired for not getting a slot. Fun Times...I remember going to the bathroom at a Dallas FBO and some frustrated pilot had written.... ""Will Rogers never met an air traffic controller...! IF you're too young to get it....Will Rogers always said "I never met a man I didn't like"... I Flew out of ATL for YEARS., IMO BEST damn controllers anywhere.!!! BAR NONE

[@anthonycade9034]

Kellsy I love your face when you focus on something. You literally look like a pilot, got a Dennis hopper vibe going. Love your videos man keep it up….😊

[@GrandadTinkerer]

Never been in aviation. However, I have seen this situation many times from poor managers, who insist on berating employees in front of everybody else!

[@Alan_Edwards]

Another great video. Hands down the best airline pilot channel on You Tube. Others pale in comparison. Thanks for all you do Kelsey !!

[@AzimuthAviation]

HAC: Headings, Altitudes, Clearances. Read them back to ATC and do them. I learned that and taught that on my way to ATP and airline captain.

[@gtm624]

Agree. Pilot should have been more transparent and controller didn’t need to add to his stress. Forgot they recently changed it to Philly. It’s no longer ny.

[@chiho125]

Fly safe Kelsey

[@shorttimer874]

In the Seventies driving taxi the cabs were on one frequency and dispatch on another, no crosstalk but no awareness of what each other was saying. In the Nineties the company I worked for was on a 10 channel digital system. The broadcasting radio scanned for an open channel when the button was held down, the repeater would beep the broadcaster's radio when it was ready to relay the call and time to talk and resend the transmission along with a signal that would trigger our companies' other radios to listen in. A lot of different companies, some with several channels, could be handled at the same time compared to each company having it's own channel, all with no one walking on someone else.

[@terrygivens132]

Thanks Kelsey

[@jiversteve]

I remember an employee of mine really messing up. I defended him in public but afterwards really ripped strips off of him privately. Nobody died but it was close. After the fact he learned, as did I.

[@mariathompson4875]

Priorities. Get the job done now. Re-training to follow in an appropriate time and place.

[@simonburton992]

The person in a swimming pool who is drowning, never looks like they are drowning.

[@DaddyRecon1]

Thank you Captain Kelsey, another awesome review!

[@PanAmRacer]

Thank you Captain Kelsey for another very interesting video about what goes on in the wild blue yonder! I wave at planes that fly over just in case one is yours! Looking forward to your next adventure. 🙂

[@mikeb2097]

Also, I recently flew the VFR corridor down the Hudson, the FAA now has PHL controlling that airspace which normally done by local NY airport and controllers. I live near PHL and have transitions through PHL bravo, and have had some not so great controllers. So having the controllers do PHL which can be busy, and parts of NY, I think is a similar situation to the recent DC accident and is another accident waiting to happen in early PHL are or NY area.

[@2centschange]

Ok, gotta say, you're missing a big error on the pilots part that I think is what got under the atc's skin. He's not communicating at all. He's making errors and the ATC's trying to sort out what to do with him, and when asked, he gets a roger and everything fine when it clearly isn't. Had the pilot been up front with why the issues were occurring (pilot error, mechanical issues, etc) but instead he got the answer 6 years old's give parents about how school was that day. It was at that point that the care and concern ended. Because instead of working with the ATC to get it sorted, he got indifference.

[@CaptainRon1913]

Problems not issues

[@stellabrooks9813]

RRRRIIIGGHT 👍❗️

[@alnorman6846]

This guy should not be flying, I quit flying 10 years ago because I had poor judgement in emergency situations

[@maracle6]

Poor communication seems likely to be a symptom of a high workload. The golden rule is aviate, navigate, communicate. If the pilots are already behind on the approach and nearly to turn for landing, then they're probably working to get the plane back to the altitude they need to be at (with very few track miles to do it) while running the landing checklist and who knows how many other tasks. Meanwhile, like Kelsey mentioned the ATC is just distracting them by giving a lecture during a critical phase of flight. Best thing would have been for ATC to offer them to get resequenced.

[@seanLeprechaun]

I agree with you, but the way the pilot was responding could have other explanations that should still be causing concern from the ATC to the pilot (rather than irritation). He could be physically ill, he could have just gotten screamed at by the big shot in his jet, he could have a gun pointed at his head, he could be passing out. I'd be interested in a followup on this one but I agree with Kelsey that irritation is not helping.

[@Earnan21]

I think there’s a place for a one-off reprimand to try and more or less ‘snap’ the pilot back into focusing on what is important. If they have something requiring more of their attention than landing the plane, the pilot should be communicating that with ATC.

[@PaulLoveless-Cincinnati]

I'm only halfway through but what I am thinking when an aircraft is not complying is a potential security issue. This is why it's such a big deal - the controller could be beginning to scramble fighters.

[@maracle6]

You don't need to scramble fighters because someone's altitude is off

[@PaulLoveless-Cincinnati]

@maracle6 The aircraft could be hijacked and the pilot under duress as a possible explanation for the aircraft not following orders.

[@ChancetheCanine]

Kelsey, way to keep us hangin’, did the pilot crash or land safely??😊

[@levanalucard851]

Honestly these videos are a big highlight of my week great content!

[@raza2594]

I'm at 12.00 and man, you've given me enough foreshadowing that I'm really hoping that the pilot doesn't head into opposite traffic. REALLY HOPING! I haven't finished watching the video yet, but damn, I'm really hoping he didn't start heading 080 into the traffic of the other airports.

[@raza2594]

Whew, I was scared for a moment there, but since you didn't mention anything I'm assuming he managed to land safely. Still left wondering what sort of reprimand he would have for those mistakes though.

[@unshapingtheearth7916]

Despite how crazy the pilots actions were i think we can all appreciate how you give the pilot understanding

[@tylerdurden2644]

1978 had a commercial actress had to get in to Teter, In a Skylane RG early morning. First time for me there. Was warned no flaps and come in hot. In the stack onto final no chopping the throttle till wheels on the ground. Still near flat out had a Lear jet have to go around behind me. He went over the top of me maybe 50' . Fastest I ever put that type down anywhere. Controllers were cool and told me I was fine. Code brown unless your fast. Definitely no place for amateur's. that is an "A" game airport.

[@user-qq73hxryby]

I’m not a pilot or controller, just someone who watches videos. But I can understand the controller being upset. The pilot had 2 chances to explain what was going on or ask for whatever he needed if he was overloaded, and he said nothing except “yeah ok”. You don’t even know if the problem was the pilot overloaded.

[@ChiIeboy]

The only problem with your thesis is NOT that your facts are wrong-it's that "the controller being upset" must not _under any circumstances_ translate outwardly into inappropriate behavior/interaction with the pilot(s). In this case, the controller essentially _'let his emotions take over.'_ Not good, by any reasonable measure. There's really no place for that in society and there's *_most certainly_* no place for that during air operations.

[@user-qq73hxryby]

@ I understand that, I guess I’m a little surprised at the reaction to this because compared to a lot of other “pilot deviations” videos I’ve seen, the controller seemed relatively calm in this one, and I think he deserved some explanation of what was going on so he could figure out what to do next.

[@utubewillyman]

The controller needs some training to put overall safety over his emotions. If he can't do that, he should not be a controller.

[@dianec66]

@@utubewillyman If you’re a big dog flying in big dog airspace, you better know what you’re doing. ATC was 100% correct in reprimanding the pilot then and there. They don’t have time to babysit someone who should know what they’re doing. There are hundreds (if not thousands) of lives each controller is responsible for at any given time. And the pilot should have communicated with ATC - if there’s a problem, let them know so they can help. The controller did not let his emotions get in the way. There was an issue and he called it out. You have to have thick skin to fly because there’s no time to put lipstick on pigs.

[@utubewillyman]

@dianec66 So demanding that a pilot landing under stress write down a phone number is good policy? I encourage you to watch Kelsey's analysis. There's a video at the top of this page.

[@TheRantyRider]

Sounds like ATC has problems and should be pulled up for this, while he is personalising a chair with his arse the pilot is trying to land a big crashy thing under task loading. ATC are there to ensure safety. Bollockings come AFTER the danger has passed, not during.

[@barbaralynch3015]

Teterboro Airport is in Bergen County NJ. West of NYC, a few miles.

[@surfingonmars8979]

I have THREE flight lessons at Santa Monica, CA, airport. I can only imagine/guess the stress level of these major airline pilots, and the ATC. Find this channel amazing and informative.

[@goapebilly]

Yes 100% that area is insane, i actually fly helicopters thru there , 3 different bravos, 2 exclusions plus teterboro and Linden. But have to say the controllers are the best ever, most laid back , helpful , ever dealt with especially for how insanely busy they are, think about having easily 20 or more helicopters zipping around in this tiny area, plus then small planes jumping in, military etc, they handle alot with ease . But at same time ,expect some degree of professionalism and experience and effort from you . And i do agree if possible deviation,tower should always wait till aircraft has landed , once pilot hears that, they are never focused as they should be to landing and taxiing . It always can wait till after

[@spelldaddy5386]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="45">0:45</a> let's be precise here. There are four categories of pilots (perhaps even 5). 1. Student pilot, who cannot fly without an instructor, or with an endorsement from a CFI permitting them to fly solo. 2. Certificated private pilot, who can fly independently alone or with passengers, but not for hire. 2a. Instrument rated pilot, who can use the private privileges to fly in clouds as well. 3. Commercial pilot and 4. Airline transport pilot, both of which are as described in the video. People who are attempting to become airline pilots will go through all of these stages at some point, but it is important not to conflate the first two. Many, many people decide to get a private license and stay there. They fly as a hobby, or to take friends and family around, but not to pursue an aviation career. These people can still build several thousands of hours after a while, and I would not put them in the same category as students, who may have under 100 hours just trying to achieve the private rating

[@nealvance2506]

Captain K, Watching from Death Valley, CA. 'Have an AWESOME Day! ✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️

[@lawrenceedger292]

I learned this long ago: talking faster doesn’t move the planes any faster and it usually results in me having to repeat myself. Plus I get irritated when controllers clip or or use non-standard phraseology. It’s sloppy, unprofessional and at times, can result in a dangerous situation.

[@patturcotte5465]

I wholeheartedly agree with your comments about overloading the pilot with comments and phone numbers. Imagine how much easier it would have been for the pilot to just get the plane on the ground and then to be given the number to call. The concerned controller would then be able to have a calm and reflective conversation, where he could actually get the answer to his question about why the pilot wasn't complying. The pilot would have all the time in the world to explain what was happening in the cockpit that put him in that position, and the post-flight talk could have had a much more positive result for both pilot and controller.

[@handyscapersllc]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="835">13:55</a> when tower says "I have a phone number to write down" is this basically saying "your in trouble"?

[@heatherbuckley7971]

Yes 😊

[@dougbailey392]

First ATC communication should have required a full read back, sent south from there.

[@baomao7243]

I tend to agree but i feel like the controller was just giving him benefit of the doubt because he thought SURELY this guy just made a one off mistake and is a seasoned ATP. But then it keeps going downhill… (During my own flt training, my instructor reamed me whenever I made that kind of mistake, even in Class D.)

[@petersuozzo1227]

Kelsey: thank you for the uploads.

[@rj934]

I’m a retired airline pilot for a major airline with hundreds of flights a day in and out of EWR. I’ve flown into and out of EWR hundreds of times. Yes, that is a very busy and fast paced airspace. Yes, the controllers in that airspace have New York attitudes and will slam a pilot in a minute for poor performance. TEB is directly below the EWR south flow arrivals and the north flow departures. His missing the altitudes was a series of major mistakes that possibly placed hundreds of lives at risk. That is the major issue here. Yes, the controller’s diatribe is poor performance and poorly timed. Both the pilots and the controllers should have filed ASAP reports. I feel your long rant on the controller at the end lost the subject topic direction of the video. You do good videos generally, but stay on topic please. The causal issue was the pilot’s actions.

[@gcorriveau6864]

(also a RAP with experience in the NYC region) Re: "The causal issue was the pilot's actions.." I disagree fwiw. The first missed restriction included an improper readback and NO CHECK by ATC. The readback rules and confirmations are not just 'suggestions.' COmmunication requires actions by both parties.

[@flinx]

Isn't it also an issue when a controller makes a situation worse possibly putting the pilot further behind the aircraft and continuing to place possibly hundreds of lives at risk? Both the pilot's and controller's issues need addressing, although some may say Kelsey should have spent less time addressing the controller.

[@dianec66]

@@flinx The pilot not listening or communicating is what was putting so many lives at risk. If you’re having a heart attack, do you want a doctor babying and hand-holidng another doctor or nurse who should know what they're doing while screwing up chest compressions or would you rather they tell the doctor or nurse what they need to do bluntly? I’m going to go with the second option since it takes a lot less time and gets the point across. And puts you at a better chance of survival.

[@c.youngberg9511]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="645">10:45</a> You are spot on, I 100% agree. I don't fly or deal with any ATC interaction, but I've worked in a few different fields, management included, and I've instructed Communication as a leadership skill. Public reprimanding doesn't help or contribute to improvement. It doesn't help move the situation in a positive direction. Plus, this much chatter is clogging up air time for safe direction to be communicated to other aircraft, so this is doing more harm than good.

[@mariathompson4875]

Another non-pilot manager here. Positive redirect to the task at hand. Buy time to breath (go around) Get the thing done. Out of the heat of battle (back on the ground) Have a conversation - not another power move of dressing down. The point is to teach and reinforce correct behavior. That happens best when no one is on offense. That lets the other person use their brain to hear rather than switching to defense and self-protection.

[@Dougie234]

So much appreciating to you Kelsey for these reports. I'd love to know what went on with this Pilot. Most of the comments seem to be about the ATC fellow. Assuming that there was no actual accident then it would be reasonable to categorise this as a 'near miss'. If every 'near miss' is transparent with causal analysis and reported then everyone can learn. Near misses are just as important to learn from than actual incidents. Eliminate near misses .. eliminate accidents ?

[@narcoosseefl]

So what finally happened? Yah left us hangin' bruh! :-)

[@SI-lg2vp]

When your flying a big boy plane, controllers expect you to preform to that standard. I spent most of my career flying for a major airline, and when a controller gives instructions it means now, not... I will think about it and blow through crossing restrictions. Controllers have a low tolerance in congested airspace, and if you can't preform, expect to be pulled off the approach and vectored off so you can think about it while you copy the phone number to call. You deserve more than the "naughty chair", and a phone call.

[@stellabrooks9813]

EXACTLY 💯... no margin for errors in flying 😒 / fly safe 👍

[@peepers46]

I’m obviously not a pilot, but I agree. I’ve flown from Boston (Bedford) into NY/NJ many times, having never been on the flight deck, I can’t begin to imagine the stress of flying through some of the world’s busiest airspace, but, I put my faith (and life) in the hands of the people who are up on the flight deck. I listen to LiveATC a lot and love listening to JFK/LaGuardia/Newark and I can feel the tension of the ATC jobs

[@tisme1105]

Would you agree that the time for worrying about phone numbers and reprimands would be when this pilot (who is clearly struggling) is safely on the ground? Placing him under more stress surely doesn't help while in the air. (of course I don't mean to imply the controller shouldn't be asking if all OK and then clearly telling the pilot he is not doing what he was cleared for)

[@dianec66]

@tisme1105 That’s the nature of flying. I listen to a lot of these ATC communications and more often than not, they give the number right then and there.

[@andyps76]

A bit of subtle incapacitation going on in the cockpit there? Seems controllers should be trained to spot that sorry of thing and spin those planes out of sequence to give em time. Are those corp jets flying 2 pilots or just single pilot?

[@WendyLouPollock]

Thanks!

[@aodhhanswtor7252]

Somewhat comical, somewhat berating, and fast-talking controllers are part of the experience when flying in NYC/NJ airspace. If you don't get a number to call you feel like you've been cheated. Same with the KMKE, KORD, and KMDW airspace, and trying to get into Chicago Executive.

[@kendrapratt2098]

The ATC reminds me of myself 😂 “Are you ok? You’re not being hijacked or something? Alright, then I’m gonna get on your case right here and now” 😂 I’m still working on it 😂

[@dianec66]

🤣🤣🤣

[@MTB_FANATIC99]

Me to especially since i have horrific ADHD 😂😂😂😂

[@nursiebelle]

I have always wanted to fly, whether it be tiny 1 propeller or A380, and I’m pretty smart, not brilliant, but for these reasons I have never pursued this, I just don’t have the nerve. God Bless all pilots.

[@nick5187]

Kelsey: “don’t be afraid to fly” Also Kelsey: “airline pilot won’t follow instructions” 👍🏼

[@stellabrooks9813]

Lol

Data Comms ATC as primary would be safer and more efficient if implemented well, even if that means text-to-speech and speech-to-text with radio as a backup rather than a primary channel, especially in congested airspaces. I would vote for Kennedy Steve with sarcasm and jokes as the computer voice. 😅

[@diytwoincollege7079]

There are also several smaller, but busy airports in the area of Teterboro. It’s not the place to be unprofessional or not 100%. It’s also surrounded by homes and businesses.

[@Curtis-l9e]

whats the other pilot in the cockpit doing while all of this is going on?

[@dianec66]

Not all planes fly with a pilot and co-pilot.

[@runarandersen878]

I agree with you here. The pilot for sure made some serious mistakes and the ATC did not make the situation better.

[@creeper8647]

You have a lot of patience with that uncooperative pilot, Kelsey. It's too bad you couldn't have saved some for the poor controller whose direction he needs to follow. I think you blew this. I'm not affiliated with ATC. I'm just a pilot's wife who knows poor piloting skills when she sees them.

[@tscully1504]

Pilot is making errors but 'Boy you are in big trouble' is not what I want a controller saying to my pilot trying to land.

[@sachiperez]

are pilot deviations followed by a drug test?

[@steves4562]

Pretty often. Not every time though

[@alg54]

When pilots call those phone numbers, who exactly are they speaking with, and what is the nature of those conversations? Are they simply reporting their side of the story, or is there an opportunity to discuss and debate the event?

[@schabandreas]

Big Boy Sandbox . Love it

[@rickythepilot]

This is the reason why you should always have two pilots flying a jet. Clearly both pilots failed in this instance. Even though you are the pilot flying, you are still listening to every radio communication. You can unburden your workload by using the autopilot which is standard procedure in any jet and most likely what was happening here. Therefore both pilots failed to follow ATC instructions which is concerning.

[@Starlinkcam]

The controller was being more than kind considering the airspace but, yeah the controller did get nasty - And as I remind many pilots that I fly with when dealing with ATC , you get more with sugar than you do with salt.

[@privateer0561]

After the second deviation, ATC should have called a missed approach and vectored him to a safe area to catch his breath/get his bearings. Pilot was very poorly prepared and his responses indicate a very high level of stress. I would say he shouldn't be flying that plane.

[@mariathompson4875]

At least not in that airspace.

[@alexdasliebe5391]

@<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="875">14:35</a> For reasons, I expect the pilot to say, “My blood sugar is low.”

[@YippieKayYay88]

I think checking for blood alcohol would be warranted, too.

[@robertpearce8394]

Snack shortage strikes.

[@baomao7243]

@@robertpearce8394Plot twist: The exec jet pilot was actually Kelsey !

[@Iveseensomethingsinmontana]

Mile high

[@baomao7243]

@ That thought had crossed my mind too

[@ljwithnok2615]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="262">4:22</a> I agree with you on shortened read backs. I fly out of the NYC big 3 and when I'm handed off to Tower or Ground I commonly just say "over to Tower/Ground" I don't read the frequency back, I have it on my chart and can unfortunately list them all off from memory. So the controller not asking for a full read back is normal to me. Why say many word when few word do trick?

[@randyogburn2498]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="364">6:04</a> at SKUBY (Scooby). Anyone else want snacks?

[@chandlerhorton7286]

normalize "if you want to yell at me, give me a phone number but for now lets focus on getting us to the ground."

[@KayoEll]

I understand the ATC's frustration, but a sterile cockpit is not the time to give out phone numbers, especially when the pilot is already distracted. I'm in medicine, and I watch Kelsey's content mostly because I think there is a lot we could learn from the airline industry. Medicine is different than flying, however, in that you often don't have the option of "circling the airport." When a baby is born not breathing, or a patient has a cardiac arrest, you can't go to your alternate airport. You have to deal with it NOW. Use your advantages and take the time you have to allow the pilot to collect himself.

[@Digitalhunny]

No joke, I don't know why, but *my* brain read the title of _this_ video as, "Airline pillow won't follow instructions" I was like yeah, that checks out... wait, _WHAT?!_ 😂😂😂😂❤

[@Kyanzes]

"Let me give you a phone number..." "I'm not calling anyone..."

[@seeburg220]

Controller didn't say CROSS Stradt AT 3000. He said Stradt at 3000. Pilot doesn't sound confident at what he's doing. As for quick descents, nothing beat the Boeing 727. It could come down like a rock and be slow at the same time. As a controller, that was a big help at times.

[@Kam_MD11]

I don’t think this was a single pilot operationbut if i were the controller at some point I would be asking if there was someone else on the flight deck