Al Murray on Bernard Montgomery and the Second World War STI outbreak - from RHLSTP 436

[@rayt8606]

My grandfather served under Monty in Africa and Sicily and spoke positively about him.

[@_____7704]

Same - even took the trouble to visit his grave went he went back home in the 80s

[@lyndoncmp5751]

The overwhelming vast majority of troops under Montgomery spoke positively about him. Even American commanders did like Gavin, Ridgway, Simpson, Hasbrouck. Richard Winters of Band of Brothers fame said Montgomery was "the real deal, an example to follow".

[@VonBlade]

My favourite of your guests. He's endlessly interesting.

[@SirGingerOfKnight]

"Horizontal Refreshment" needs to be brought back as a phrase!

[@meu02136]

Was just going to comment I’m stealing that 😀

[@christophercox9150]

I'm sure it was used in a James Bond film in the 90's. I think the upmarket hotel employee greets Pierce Brosnan and asks if he'd like any er...horizontal refreshment

[@sean640307]

I refer to it as horizontal folk dancing, but it's the same thing :D

[@mikewinston8709]

Or in my regiment; horizontal PT.

[@markthompson3444]

I still use this phrase 😂😂

[@stephenhughes4943]

The only thing that comes out of Alls mouth is the unvarnished truth. Love him.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

He is just a biased left-wing liar.

[@stephenhughes4943]

@@Jeremy-y1t Whatever.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

@@stephenhughes4943 He should be investigated for abuse.

[@davidsullivan7743]

Montgomery was a far better general than his critics, particularly American, give him credit for. However, if I had to choose my own view on who was the best allied general of the war, it would be Field Marshal Bill Slim. He took command of 14th army after the fall of Singapore and the longest retreat in British history in Burma. He not only then stopped the Japanese at Imphal & Kohima but in the advance into Burma he inflicted the biggest defeat the Imperial Japanese army suffered in the entire war, which you definitely won't hear from an American

[@Jeremy-y1t]

Slim abused children.

[@RushfanUK]

Montgomery saw the horrific waste of lives by the Generals in WW1 and it coloured how he looked at his men, he would not recklessly waste lives, American generals were always looking to lay off blame, I read an article about Market Garden that put the failures on the American General Gavin who prioritised the wrong objective instead of pushing to take the bridge at Nijmegen, it left XXX Corps having to take the bridge and be 36 hours behind which lost Arnhem, Gavin excuses his actions in his memoirs.

[@SimonDover]

Agreed

[@SimonDover]

​@@RushfanUKWe don't talk about that. Brush it under the carpet. Gotta keep the Yanks happy. Meanwhile they're trying to tell Generals who went through WW1 how to fight.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

@@SimonDover Slim abused children.

[@django1582]

My Dad was in the British Army in the 1950's, he was based in Austria and Germany - They were given condoms as required (it would be a bit like wearing a finger of a marigold glove), if they caught VD the soldier would be put on a charge. There was also something euphemistically called a 'short arm inspection' which was carried out every month with the medical officer whereby each platoon had their tackle inspected. My dad was a working class lad from Manchester who became an officer and had to hold the tackle up with a stick as the MO examined them.

[@joseph-sj7do]

Too much Info!

[@nbell63]

For more thoughts on Monty, try "On The Psychology of Military Incompetence" (1976) by Norman F. Dixon. The first third is a bit daunting (sooo many people die), but what follows is a cracking examination on what characterises good/effective leadership from the poor, written by a fellow who served in the Royal Engineers in WWII.

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

He was a former Royal Engineers Bomb Disposal Officer, and ended up as the head of the Psychology department in University College London.

[@peterdonnelly1074]

Fantastic read, which also explains the incompetence of large corporations

[@nbell63]

My conceit, even as I was reading it, Peter, was that this was the antidote to the use of Sun Tsu's "The Art of War" in that very context. 😊

[@melancholiac]

My goodness, I had forgotten all about that book, a bloody classic. My dad was also a Royal Engineer (Bomb Disposal) in WW2.

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

@@melancholiac I rewatch ‘Danger UXB’ every year or so. I was lucky enough to meet a few of the original generation of BDO’s not long after my own training. Gentlemen every one…

[@raylv6962]

I'm a retired army officer, and I find you to be informative and interesting. Thank you.

[@mickymondo7463]

My Grandfather was a military policeman in Egypt during WWII, and one of his duties was to check the bothels were clean to prevent the spread of STDs'

[@wjf0ne]

micky mondo I'm not a gynecologist but I'll take a look.

[@tomhaskett5161]

Did he work a week in hand?

[@MrBond249]

Nice work if you can get it 😂

[@mickymondo7463]

@@MrBond249 I have his notebook detailing various bars and which girls were working etc, along with the leather cosh he used to persuade squaddies to come with him when they were kicking off.

[@IrishTechnicalThinker]

"If you give me orders to invade Hell, I'll get Australians to take it and New Zealanders to hold it." Erwin Rommel.

[@davidbolton4930]

New Zealand had their own commander who was much better then Monty.. general freyberg V.C

[@andywilson2406]

@@davidbolton4930 HMMM, heard of Crete?

[@davidbolton4930]

@@andywilson2406 yes I have multiple book on it you need to educate yourself on the battle of Crete we were never gonna hold that island and freyberg didn't want the new Zealand division to actually even stay their and he was ordered to defend the island as if he didn't know the Germans plans and he also didn't have any radios below the brigade level and the Germans had 300 plus aircraft freyberg had 20 odd

[@davidbolton4930]

@@andywilson2406 he also had no tanks and no artillery at all the new Zealand government nearly fired him for taking the division to Greece and the Crete was only mean to be a staging area before they when to Egypt when freyberg go to Crete he was informed he was expected to defend the island which he refused to do for 3 days straight before accepting command of Crete Force blaming the fall of Crete on freyberg is a uneducated take no way he could have defend the island without any air support if you read stories from the kiwis on Crete they talk about never seeing a RAF aircraft

[@lyndoncmp5751]

davidbolton4930 Freyberg much better than Montgomery? 😂 😂😂😂 Montgomery was the best general the western allies had in in the ETO and North Africa in WW2. Proved it many times.

[@grogery1570]

I had a friend who was a medic in the US Army and served in Vietnam. He had some pretty gruesome stories about the STIs that were going around and how he was celibate for the year he was there having seen how bad they were. This is one of those problems you can only stop with Education, Science, and Condoms. Morals just seem to get people killed.

[@allosaurusfragilis7782]

Wise words there....education and science gives us progress and better lives.....religion, preaching and moralising leads to war and death. History proves this to be true.

[@dannyboy-vtc5741]

I watched recently here on yt some excavations of burried german soldiers here in northern croatia, from ww2, mostly mass graves, i mean burried in close sequences in the cemetary, apparently there was a field hospital near by. Anyways just bones and an occasional dog tag, and condoms, huge amount of condoms that were rubber so didn't completely rot away.

[@richardsawyer5428]

I listened to the audio book and I follow alot of military history channels on KZbin, etc. I used to be interested in the big machines, the explosions, etc. Now I'm more interested in the "average" people that made the big machines and explosions and how were trained, fed and equipped to do the extraordinary things that they did. Al Murray does a great job of exploring that psychology.

[@robertcook2572]

Something that struck me in one of the discussions was the docks in Liverpool being set up to receive and process, say, three ships every day. The advent of the convoys meant that they then had to deal with twenty ships at once and then have nothing for three weeks. The headache for dock management was enormous. The whole history of the war is awash with similar aspects which I hadn't considered, and which are miles away from crash, bang, wallop and even more interesting.

[@jdrancho1864]

Good generals talk tactics and strategy, great generals talk logistics.

[@onastick2411]

The Valour of ordinary men.

[@arthurgordon6072]

Just finished Al's book, Command. Great read.

[@highdownmartin]

Mr Murray is a fascinating bloke. I could listen to a lot more of him chattering away about the bits that aren’t talked about.

[@simonback9335]

Listen to his and James Holland podcast We have ways been going for years now they have covered all aspects of WW2 in a fantastic way

[@highdownmartin]

@@simonback9335 thanks

[@tedcopple101]

I'm probably 1000 hrs plus of listening to him and Jim.

[@onastick2411]

I read a biography of Monty, which was a distillation of three volumes in one, very big volume, called "The Full Monty", if I recall, but I might be remembering that wrong. In it, it had a picture of Monty and his fellow Officers, taken I think just at the outbreak of WW2. His colleagues were all wearing the WW1 officer's uniform, for riding horses, with the baggy thigh thing, Monty was the only one in (for then), modern battle dress. I thought, that says a lot.

[@yellowjackboots2624]

Monty planned a massive attack in Tunisia 1943 which he asked his lieutenants to critique. One of them said "The attack will succeed. But you will be no army left afterwards" Monty called the attack off.

[@merdiolu]

That is New Zealand general Bernard Freyberg who said that to him before final attack that caused mass Axis surrender in Tunisia. The sector Monty was interested to attack and breakthrough was very hilly and full of rock formations and Freyberg was blunt about their chances. Now Freyberg was not the best general of the world , he was a very good division commander but daft above that rank , losing Crete 1941. But as an infantry general Montgomery respected him and listened his advice especially in offensive operations which Freyberg was good and inspiring general. Therefore Monty switched axis of attack from his own 8th Army to 1st Army in further west and let go of any laurels he might get for final Allied victory in Africa. He could be humble and all business ans professional when he wished.

[@oldman1734]

As a National Serviceman in Malaya the VD rate was said to be over 60 percent.

[@alexwilliamson1486]

“Self inflicted injury” it’s in the QRs….(Queens Regs) I nearly got done for the exact same infraction, for falling asleep on a beach in Cyprus, drunk, dreadful sunburn….and I mean bad, had to get up at 0530 next morning for 3 mile run….thought my skin would burst open!! Never been sunburnt since…that was August 1998…You could get charged for almost anything in the military.

[@nirfz]

Well, if you render yourself "unable for duty" of course they'll charge you. You failed at "protection and care of army inventory" :-D. I'm not british, and we have conscription, but there's an little booklet we all got (and had to write a test about) that would translate to "general service regulations" and there's a § in there with a title that translates to "protection and care of army property". Usually we would get reminded about that when someone would handle an issued item not according to plan. But when one of our plattoon fell over something during an exercise, the NCO shouted "§4 passage 5! " (which was exactely that§. ->any soldier is considered "property of the army". I was a little "luckier", when i slipped on mud, my NCO just said "Nobody gave an order to go prone".

[@davebowman6497]

That fits my general impression of Brits visiting the Mediterranean region - in peacetime. Drunk and with dreadful sunburns.. 😏

[@alexwilliamson1486]

@@davebowman6497 I was serving with the UN actually, 2 days off the Green Line…no holiday I can assure you!

[@johnfisher697]

The Best one is Silent Insubordination, if all else fails they use that one.

[@gazriley624]

i'd just like to say how brilliant Time Gentlemen Please was! still one of the funniest shows ever

[@Herring1967]

Thanks Gaz.

[@PhilipTimm]

Go on then!

[@gazriley624]

@@PhilipTimm i did and i'm saying it now! Back off Brussels!!!

[@TransoceanicOutreach]

Not as funny as The Saturday Night Armistice though.

[@davidhull1481]

Never heard of this one before, but it goes in a direction I never would have. Very interesting.

[@stephenholmes1036]

My family thought that Field Marshall Bill Slim was the best overall commnder in the British and Indian armies. They were 14th army the forgotten army. Alanbrooke CIGS again a dam.good soldier.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

Best is subjective and opinion. Montgomery was the most successful Western Allied ground commander of WW2 by some way. He won more battles and took more ground through more countries while facing more quality German opposition than any other Western Allied ground commander in WW2. This is fact.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

@@lyndoncmp5751 Montgomery was carried by the US.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

@Jeremy-y1t Other way around. Montgomery carried the US and saved them twice. First after Kasserine and then again in the Battle of the Bulge. When Eisenhower took over from Montgomery as C-in-C of all allied ground forces the advance stalled and even got pushed back into a retreat in the Ardennes. Eisenhower had to go running back to Montgomery.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

@@lyndoncmp5751 The UK and its defunct empire was only a satellite of the United States. Montgomery needed US supplies to win.

[@swsfrancais7289]

I can't remember the film but the scene was in the examination room with the Medical Officer staring at a soldiers' crotch saying (paraphrased) " I'll tell you what Smith, if it doesn't cough in the next few seconds, we'll call it the clap, shall we?"

[@leebritnell2405]

The Virgin Soldiers,1968.

[@swsfrancais7289]

@@leebritnell2405 Of course - Thanks

[@robertstorey7476]

Montgomery was a vain arrogant genius, possibly a narcissist, but I don't see how you can call him a psychopath. He genuinely tried to minimise casualties and understood his men especially that they came from a different culture to the Germans weren't ever going to be as ruthless in battle. He made sure they didn't have to be to win battles through thorough preparation.

[@ads2686]

he was also most probably a pedophile.....

[@thevillaaston7811]

@@ads2686 he was also most probably a pedophile..... On what evidence?

[@bigwoody4704]

Read the full monty both Lucien Treub and Nigel hamilton outed him. Or did you need it read to you

[@robertstorey7476]

@@bigwoody4704 there are many other accounts of the extent of his difficult personality. If you want to troll someone find another victim you loser.

[@rayjennings3637]

Al Murray's words at 09:01 remind me of the scene in 'Virgin Soldiers', where Pvt Cutler goes to the MO who says to him, "Well it looks like a dose doesn't it?" to which Cutler replies, "No, it's not a dose, sir. It's just got a cold." The MO replies by saying, "We'll give it a minute and if it hasn't sneezed by then, we'll call it Gonorrhea."

[@JerryBoardman]

I went to the Oxford Soldiers' Museum a short while back and there was an MG 42 (German machine gun) donated by Al Murray (possibly liberated by his Dad, a wartime para).

[@stuartpeacock8257]

Brilliantly explained

[@Rockhopper1]

In 1994 I served at a base in the south UK, we had a female private who was very very attractive, and she had a rep as a bit of a nympho, then suddenly a lot of blokes got VD, and some senior ranks, it was traced back to her, she was charged with affecting the manpower of a unit and fined and ordered to be sent to a mental unit for education till her VD was clear. The whole unit had to go through sexual health training, and everyone in the unit was given a pack of johnnies, when you went out on the piss the guard commander would check you had a pack of johnnies with you, if you had none he gave you a free pack.

[@davidcollins-xs7wz]

So the attitude never changed blame the women and not the men.

[@Rockhopper1]

@@davidcollins-xs7wz 100% her fault

[@michaelwhittaker5432]

please PLEASE TELL ME THE UNIT ??? !! was it Folkstone ??/// I was duty medic at Strensal camp near York - I know your pain !

[@Rockhopper1]

@@bwilson5401 self inflicted wound 1st charge, affecting the working strength contrary to the army act 1955 2nd charge, contravene part 1 orders contrary to the army act 1955 3rd charge, knowingly endanger lives army act 1955, conduct unbecoming 4th charge, ,

[@Rockhopper1]

@@michaelwhittaker5432 near camberley that is all I am saying, trying to explain to civvies below how the army charging system works is doing my head in

[@garypowell1540]

I would like to see any convincing argument that a general can be a war time general without being a murderous psychopath.

[@billkingston4402]

Great talk, thanks

[@MrTangolizard]

I’m a former infantryman and if I had a choice during ww2 to serve under any of the field commanders I would choose Monty , Patton was a dick the Russians waste men as if they have no value

[@michaelwilkinson2928]

Same with Wellington, another austere general who tried to limit casualties vs. Continental generals who were very wasteful of their troops.

[@MrTangolizard]

@@michaelwilkinson2928 yes your right I wonder if it comes from the British always being the smaller population

[@bigwoody4704]

@@MrTangolizard you would choose wrong british fanboi Allied HQ blaming Montgomery *Alan Brooke's own words with Adml Ramsay chiming in* *"Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."* Monty later admitting it *The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303* *In his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr without Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. He would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"* *From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary* *Eisenhower's Armies ,by Dr Niall Barr ,page 415* After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary, followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. *After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem* *How about Air Marshall Tedder* *With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599"* *Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal* *How about Monty's Chief of Staff* *Max Hastings, Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray. That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him* *How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith* *Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45* The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. *Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside"* *How about IKE's Private Papers?* *The Eisenhower Papers, volume IV, by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies* *And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed* *Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor, page 14* Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. *The mistake lay with Monty, who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later* *Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life* *Road to Victory, Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert* A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. *Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery; based strictly on military accomplishments, the case for him was very weak* *The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437* The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary

[@MrTangolizard]

@@bigwoody4704 well I wouldn’t choose wrong at all Monty was more cautious with the lives of his men simple as that

[@bigwoody4704]

Hardly you really haven't researched much but you can start here *Montgomery in Europe 1943-45,by Richard Lamb pages 360-362 "British 6th Airborne had lost 30% of it's personnel killed and wounded;the Air landing brigade,which came in gliders had lost over 70% of its equipment The Army that needed to keep casualty count low lost over 3,100 men crossing the Rhine north of Wesel.* *The disparity between the number of lives lost at Wesel and the earlier American crossings is striking* Operation Varsity, for the northern route casualty figures tell a grim story. Into the industrial heart of Germany *The 6th Airborne had suffered 590 killed* and another 710 wounded or missing. Several hundred of the missing later turned up to rejoin their units, however. *The 17th Airborne had 430 killed,* with 834 wounded and 81 missing. Casualties among the glider pilots and the troop plane pilots and crews included *91 killed,* 280 wounded and 414 missing in action. Eighty planes were shot down, and only 172 of the 1,305 gliders that landed in Germany were later deemed salvageable. *Simpson's 9th US Army had to wait and cross with Montgomery;they suffered 491 casualties crossing south of Wesel.The US 17th Airborne Division lost 921 Paratroopers and 350 air crew(all with Montgomery's 21st Army Group)* *A total of 1,111 Allied soldiers had been killed during the day’s fighting. In comparison, the 101st Airborne Division had lost 182 killed and the 82nd Airborne 158 on D-Day. Operation Varsity, March 24, 1945, was the worst single day for Allied airborne troops* *Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-1945,Page 368* by Max Hastings. The US Army relished to the utmost the spectacle of Montgomery preparing to "stage" a huge,formal military pageant ,more than 2 days after it's own soldiers had crossed 70 miles to the south.Patton's Army had crossed at night on 22 March - "without the benefit of aerial bombing,ground smoke,artillery preparation and airborne assistance," - all of which 21st Army Group(Montgomery) was employing on a prodigious scale!!! Hodges 1st US Army got across at Remagen with a *casualty count of 31 men Patton's 3rd US Army came across near Oppenheim "with the total loss of 28 men killed and wounded.* It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time.

[@harryhill8543]

Yeah he wasnt a psychopath Al, theres a very high threshold for that diagnosis to be met.

[@efnissien]

I remember a chat I had with a Colonel when I was younger. His line was- to be a senior officer you have to be a borderline sociopath - it's something they condition you to in staff college. Compassionate officers get their men killed as they dither over Hobson's choice, you are not the men's friend, nor are they yours. At the end of the day you may have to make horrible decisions to serve the greater good. Like send men out in the knowledge they've no chance of survival in order to buy time to bring more men and resources to bear. Essentially the men are your working capital, no more men and you're out of business. He was one of these blokes that like or hate him , you had to respect him for his honesty.

[@MrDaiseymay]

Is that what Putin Faces?

[@JR-bj3uf]

My son asked me what I though of him joining the military. I said "you play chess. What happens to pawns?" He said 'they get sacrificed to gain position." I told him if he was clear about the goals of the military and it involved being treated like a pawn then by all means enlist. He decided to do other things.

[@JamesLee-mp8hk]

I just finished Omar Bradley's book a General's Story and I did not get the impression that he respected him.

[@georgeholbrook1886]

@@JR-bj3uf You deprived him of what could have been the most interesting few years of his life. Its not 24/7 of 'officers feeding you into the combat wood-chipper!'

[@JR-bj3uf]

@@georgeholbrook1886 But it's a possibility that you have to consider.

[@jameseadie7145]

Just read Al Murrays book Command, heartily recommend it

[@roland9423]

Percy Hobart was recalled from Home Guard by WSC after forced out form regular Army. Imagine D-Day without his Funnies.

[@davidgray3321]

What a strange muddled reputation Monty has, often seen by the Yanks as over cautious, and in the same breath, reckless in operation Market Garden, the latter seems mad, having to move all the gear up a narrow road, surely nuts?

[@Trebor74]

The Germans did it. Even landing ON fortifications. The only reason it's seen as doomed to failure is because it did. But most of it was successful

[@nickdanger3802]

In military strategy, a choke point (or chokepoint) is a geographical feature on land such as a valley, defile or bridge, or maritime passage through a critical waterway such as a strait, which an armed force is forced to pass through in order to reach its objective, sometimes on a substantially narrowed front and therefore greatly decreasing its combat effectiveness by making it harder to bring superior numbers to bear. A choke point can allow a numerically inferior defending force to use the terrain as a force multiplier to thwart or ambush a much larger opponent, as the attacker cannot advance any further without first securing passage through the choke point.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

But they actually got up that road. XXX Corps did 80km in just 42 hours. It wasn't the road, it was the bridges not taken by the paratroopers. Had the bridges been taken then XXX Corps would have reached Arnhem on the 3rd day.

[@Fidd88-mc4sz]

@@lyndoncmp5751 To my mind, it was the RAF's insistence on using DZ's so far from Arnhem bridge, which to my mind should have been taken by gilder-assault. The RAF were rightly concerned about the loss of Dakotas in daylight drops, so were very leery about the DZ being closer (to known flak concentrations). The upshot of all that being that Jerry was able to keep the great majority of the paratroops away from the immediate area of the bridge.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

@Fidd88-mc4sz Yes. There was too much caution all around from the air forces in Market Garden including the refusal by Brereton and Williams in not flying double missions on day one. Brereton wanted drops in all target areas to be over 3 days. The RAF told Brereton they could fly double missions and double glider tows to Arnhem but he wouldn't let them. For their part yes, the RAF were concerned about Flak and wouldn't fly closer to the Arnhem bridge. Brereton also prevented tactical ground attack air support sharing the skies with his 3 days of drops which ballooned into a week due to the weather.

[@tonyjedioftheforest1364]

My dad in the desert and a couple of uncles in Normandy served under Monty in the war and absolutely loved him so I was brought up to respect him. I find it cheap humour to disrespect our national heroes, without men such as Monty the world would be very different today.

[@johncartwright8154]

Agreed, my father was a 'Don R' RC of S attached to the 8th Army (severely wounded 9/05/43 just days before the German surrender) and had the utmost respect for the man.

[@johnglenn30csardas]

Two words for Monty: Market Garden.

[@tonyjedioftheforest1364]

@@johnglenn30csardas yes a 90% successful campaign, 2 of my uncles fought in that one. Uncle Jack with the airborne in Arnhem and uncle Tom in 30 corps. Let down by Gavin and then Patton refusing to halt in his sector taking up resources.

[@Jenjenilou]

@@johnglenn30csardas My uncle Ron at Arnhem and was decorated for escaping from behind enemy lines and making his way back to his unit over the course of three days. He had nothing but admiration for Montgomery, until the day he died. Market Garden's ultimate lack of success wasn't just down to Monty. It's far more complex than that.

[@johnglenn30csardas]

@@tonyjedioftheforest1364 With sincere respect to your heroic ancestors, the past few decades of military history have been unkind to Field Marshal Montgomery. Sir Antony Beevor, for example. I don't know how you can begin to call Market Garden a 90% successful campaign. That just flies in the face of history.

[@davestableford1516]

There was a huge school in my town that was for the daughters of the nation’s clergy. During WWI it was commandeered to be used as a military VD hospital. After the war the clergy declined to return and had their girls educated elsewhere.

[@denisrobertmay875]

As an adjunct to Al's "VD" story the London Rubber Company (makers of the Durex brand of condoms) started in 1915 to deal with the "epidemic".

[@pincermovement72]

Montgomery cut his teeth in the first war where by the end the british had took massive casualties and in a democratic state this was seen as unacceptable and machinery with firepower was to be used to the maximum effect to limit casualties. The Americans had never taken the losses of britain so their generals still thought it acceptable to throw men at positions despite potential casualties as the British had first done . The French had suffered even more which is where their generals had no wish to repeat the massive losses and had flipped into defeatism . The Russians and Japanese just didn’t care . Monty was seen as cautious because from his experience in world war 1 preparation and overwhelming firepower could achieve the same outcome with minimum losses. Yes he was a narcissist but I believe this is common amongst most leaders , a psychopath definitely not , best British general no , that would go to Bill Slim probably the most forgotten general of the war and his forgotten army .

[@cuebj]

Brilliant comment. One tiny modification: Japan did care about casualties - they wished to die for emperor as a sort of death cult. Eventually, allies in Burma realised this and worked out that Japanese were suicidally brave but not actually good soldiers who could think on the ground. You could use that against them. My father was there after Kohima in mountainous jungle, then flat plains. Big admirer of Slim, US logistics, and Dakota pilots when he kicked supplies out to troops on the ground

[@michaelcatherwood4088]

Proud NZeder. Bill Slim was born in England. Served in British Army in WW1. Interwar in the Indian Army. WW2 in the British again. After the war he held the post of Governor General of Australia. A great man but he may never have been to NZ and certainly never lived or worked here.

[@michaelcatherwood4088]

@Retired Bore No worries Bill Slim would have made a great Kiwi.

[@Bolthole1]

The mouse general general Patton had it right he called him a bilious little bastard

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

@@Bolthole1 Patton was a fanny.

[@EdLeslie-h4w]

Al Murray or as I like to call him Professor Al Murray. Should have a series all to himself about the history of warfare. I enjoyed his D Day landings (both of them) and Holland.....

[@Jeremy-y1t]

He is a fake left-wing shill.

[@sandhopper99]

Al Murray needs to read "Defeat into Victory" by William Slim and re-assess who was the best British General of WW2.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

Slim was a child abuser.

[@whispjohn]

General Bill Slim was the best British General in WW2, he was in charge of the "forgotten" army in Burma, The 14th Army.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

Slim was a nonce.

[@charlesmorton7944]

As one who lived through WW2, I never realized until this clip that it was such a comical affair. I always thought it was serious

[@Herring1967]

You should probably check out the work of spike Milligan -for starters.

[@scotsbillhicks]

+1 Spike Milligan. And also George McDonald Fraser.

[@whowoulge1256]

As if you’ve never made light out of a dark situation. Yes wad is horrible, but comedy is about making people laugh and cheer people up. Quite frankly if you don’t enjoy this kind of humour then don’t watch it. Maybe I have misinterpreted what you are saying so if i have then please ignore me

[@wellyman2008]

@@scotsbillhicks The best war biography ever, better than his Flashman series....

[@cryhavoc999]

@@wellyman2008 You take that back......

[@Alfie1970Waterhouse]

Thanks. Brilliant

[@sirdigbyminge1639]

You may like to listen to the radio 4 Great Lives podcast about Monty. Al Murray is the guest. ✌️

[@Mexi257]

An STI brief is still standard for deployed operations in the UK Military.

[@Ken_oh545]

Not all the stories out of BATUK make for pleasant reading.

[@davidice101artistdavideric7]

Brilliant chat about war the army and the church

[@benflint4207]

Innit though, likes seeing Murray being himself and Dick brings it out.

[@user-ht9jw5mo4s]

My father met him on HMS Franklin at the end of the war.

[@Gungho1a]

WW1 Australia had a mandatory discharge policy...troops that caught VD (STI's) were discharged in disgrace and sent back to australia. Rather ironic 'punishment' as it turns out in hindsight. WW2 and the moral position of the army, including chaplains, had changed, and in the middle east the army established their own brothels, hired their own pimps and prostitutes and put army doctors in charge of the system. This was kept very low key and quiet, and it's likely that not even the government of the day knew about it, but it was surprisingly modern thinking for the australian army.

[@philodonoghue3062]

New Zealand was lucky to have Nurse Eddie Rout who pioneered VD prevention for NZers in Egypt in the FIRST World War

[@q.e.d.9112]

They must have forgotten by 1939. NZ’s infection rate was second only to Aus in WW2.

[@darklingeraeld-ridge7946]

In the light of numeric overwhelming Allied forces, have to say that ‘the results speak for themselves’ is pretty crass…. Allied generals didn’t have to contend with Hitler over them, declaring war on multiple fronts and meddling incoherently at every level.

[@remko2]

I think you need to read up on the back seat driving by Churchill .....

[@darklingeraeld-ridge7946]

@@remko2 Not in the same league as the little tashed one.

[@Twirlyhead]

No. Monty really did care about his men. He referenced the slaughter of Passchendaele in WW1 for example as a driver behind what he strove to avoid in WW2.

[@realPromotememedia]

I think you’re right, he was a huge annoyance to Churchill because he wouldn’t attack until he was ready, ironically, auchinlec however you spell it his predecessor was a huge irritant to Churchill for this reason also, he kept piling up supplies before launching a North Africa attack so was replaced by Montgomery, but by then most of the supplies had been accumulated for him so he could claim the glory for successful El alemain

[@barthoving2053]

But did he care about them as human beings or as tools? Because a tool will unavoidable break if used long enough. A good craftsman wil take care of his tools and use them properly to prolong their lifetime. But he will not stop using until they are useless and then he will discard them. If you care about the soldier as a human, you might not want to use him at all in battle. And Al Murray claims Montgomery was good at taking care of his tools. Passchendaele was a huge waste of tools both for the armies as the nations as a whole with little to show for. But it's hard to proof without a doubt Monty cared about his soldiers because they were humans or they were tools. Because in the end even his inner arguments would be mixed and the reasons presented to the outside world might not reflect Monty's inner thoughts and feelings. It's better to you you want to save your tools because you do not want to widow their wifes and orphan their children, then to say you do not want to lose your tools.

[@Twirlyhead]

@@barthoving2053 Tool.

[@zetectic7968]

At D-day there were 6 divisions unable to fight due to VD

[@davidfawcett3144]

That's why penicillin was so important during the war. One jab and they'd be back on their feet in a day or two. Much tut-tutting from the chemists. "This is not what we made it for."

[@martinknight1000]

The Book by Montgomery is great explains why he did what he did, he even criticised himself when he got it wrong.

[@RobertThomson-y4m]

My grandfather fought from Normandy to Germany, was present at the liberation of Belsen, and he never had a bad word for Monty. He won battles and didnt sacrifice his men stupidly.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

See why Israel supported Argentina during the Falklands War.

[@chrissheppard5068]

Injured? He was serious GSW to the chest.

[@billmmckelvie5188]

What people have to remember is Monty was furious with the Generals in World War who just threw lives away! This us why he was cautious plus we had a manpower shortage!

[@robinmawson7968]

Obviously he has read Hamilton's three large volumes on Montgomery. Refreshing to have someone do some honest appraisals on social media of Montgomery.

[@mikewinston8709]

Al with his public school boy signet ring…..absolutely correct about the business of soldiering too; a bit of blue beret peace keeping is the modern version.

[@jacklamb2904]

Unless you were infantry during the War on terror, but of peace keeping, big of trying to physically make some peace

[@wessexdruid7598]

Which public schools has signet rings? (Al went to Bedford.) That's far more likely to be from his family. His dad, btw, was a Para Engr Lt Col who served in Suez.

[@robertgraves8843]

Monty's problem was that he had no filter. Most of us moderate our tone to suit the company. He couldn't do that and hence pissed off the Americans. I saw the interviews with Monty done in the early 1960s and was surprised how well he came across. A tough man, definitely. Socially awkward, maybe. Likeable? Not always. But intelligent and surprisingly braod minded I thought. I'd have had a beer with him sooner than serve under him.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

Montgomery had ASD, and he was attracted to underage boys throughout his life.

[@plantagenant]

The Duke of Wellington was also known to try to minimise casualties among his own troops.

[@SidneyBroadshead]

*_Command: How the Allies Learned To Win The Second World War_* by Al Murray London: Headline Publishing (2022)

[@dougiem1]

My father was Montgomerys personal Steward on four crossings of the Atlantic. As such he got a invite to the premier of a bridge too far a film where every character is played by someone who could do that character justice Montgomery’s character doesn’t appear His name got one mention in the film the veterans all booed at that one mention That’s how popular he was

[@MadAntz970]

And he had the bloody cheek to calm that Market Garden was a 90% successful operation. Dropping air borne troops into a hot zone, that can only fight with the weapons, ammunition and equipment you drop with them, whilst waiting for 30 Corps to travel some 30 odd miles down what was basically a single track road beggars belief.

[@stevenfarrall3942]

@@MadAntz970 Yes. But. There were other pressure. The UK's declining manpower for one. The hope that they could end the war in 1944. And there were two plans - one Market Garden - the northern thrust into the Rhur and a southern assault under Patton - but the Allies only had the resources for one. The northern thrust was chosen. I am not saying that Montgomery was not flawed - he was - and the intelligence failures around the knowledge of two Panzer Divs being re-fitted near Arnhem, and making the drop zones so far from the bridge are all really unforgiveable.

[@bujler]

@@MadAntz970 It was 90% successful. But then, a ship with a hull that is 90% waterproof is still going to sink.

[@TransoceanicOutreach]

I don't know whether your comment is being positive or negative. Positive: 'a film where every character is played by someone who could do that character justice Montgomery’s character doesn’t appear' = seems positive. 'His name got one mention in the film the veterans all booed at that one mention. That’s how popular he was.' = seems negative, but could also be positive i.e. they were upset because he wasn't in the film and only got one mention.

[@dougiem1]

@@TransoceanicOutreach the film deliberately left him out to protect his reputation the veterans they booed him because they knew it was a futile waste of their lives

[@Dezzasheep]

It's weird seeing him with a Barnet.

[@grumpyoldman8661]

Montgomery was 'master of the battlefield' to quote his biographer Nigel Hamilton. Alamein was a definite turning point in WW2 with his Eighth Army relentlessly driving the Afrika Corp from the North African desert. As Land Force Commander of Operation Overlord (D-Day) his campaign plan - first set out to the assembled top brass in St. Paul's School on 7th April and again on 15th May 1944 - was designed to attract the bulk of the enemy's panzer forces to the Anglo-Canadian sector, pinning them there and thus allowing his subordinate (US General Omar Bradley) to design a break-out plan (Operation Cobra) which he did successfully, resulting in Gen Patton's armour rapidly advancing against seriously diminished German panzer units; just a 'thin screen' in fact. To create Montgomery's scenario his 21st Army Group fought a savage war of attrition, in what became known as the 'cauldron', against a brave and resourceful enemy. Reflecting on the battle (after the war) Eisenhower would say in an interview: 'I don't know if we could have done it without Monty. Whatever they say about him he got us there'. Turning to Operation Market Garden - the movie "A Bridge Too Far" was a travesty - debate continues, but certainly the heroic struggle by the British paras at Arnhem itself was a tragic failure. However, the total Operation was not actually a defeat, that is within the conventional military meaning of that term; e.g, the Allied armies were not pushed back to their start line and now owned a large expanse of territory. After the war German General Kurt Student would comment that the Market Garden operation "proved to be a great success. At one stroke it brought the British 2nd Army into the possession of vital bridges and valuable territory. The conquest of the Nimjegen area (US 82nd Airborne and British 30th Corps) meant the creation of a good jumping board for the offensive which contributed to the end of the war". (p98 Hamilton) This great soldier has been the post-war victim of a deliberate campaign of misrepresentation, mainly from the US but also by British historians who appear to write with the American market in mind.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

We only won at El Alamein due to US supplies.

[@melancholiac]

'We need to talkabout delving'

[@wessexdruid7598]

If Richard wants to understand how hard even the simple stuff in war is, just watch Al & Jim Holland try to brew tea in his recent D-Day walking the ground vids.

[@2paulcoyle]

The US had huge staffs. By and large the US Army was 90% staff and logistics. A lot of this was US experience in mobile land war from the Civil War. The huge, mass moving South and West. Even the official US Army anthem is ..." .. over hill,over Dale, we will hit the dusty trail, and the ( wagons ) keep moving along..... It wasn't that US Army could afford to throw troops, it was that more that the US lived, supplied at a faster pace. Patton understood not giving the Germans a rest. Every minute was a minute the Germans could set up a more difficult, costly defense. Patton was comfortable with more unknown. Montgomery came from a more studious tradition, and by WW2 the British Army was stretched thin, with thin to no reserves. He was the right British General at the right time.

[@bartybollocks]

Bill Slim. Magical.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

Slim abused children.

[@tango6nf477]

The Problem for Monty is that most people judge him by his portrayal in movies, I'm thinking here of a bridge too far which was about the Arnhem operation for which he was blamed for its failure. It did fail but it was unfair to put all the blame on him. The docudrama about Eisenhower called countdown to D day was another. These types of film generally portray Monty in a negative way as pompous, arrogant and not very good. Monty is not the only victim and we should not judge people who are long gone by their depiction in such productions.

[@fred166]

I joined Acast Plus to watch the video, paid my £5 + VAT but acast is only giving me the option of listening to the podcast, and same with the the other RHLSTP episodes, so how do I watch the videos on acast?

[@Herring1967]

There’s a website with the videos. Chris Evans not that one will send you a link and password in a few days. If not let him know [e-mail]

[@rgp101]

What's happened to the full episodes on YT? Have they moved?

[@Herring1967]

@@rgp101 Filming is now being paid for by Acast, but you can watch them all for about 60p an episode (usually 8 videos a month) by joining the top tier of Acast Plus here plus.acast.com/s/rhlstp Loads of other benefits too.

[@BelteshazzarBaumbruck]

If someone is an actual clinically diagnosed psychopath, then by definition that person must be incapable of taking care of the needs of others. This guy Al Murray is sloppy and complacent. He should mind his words.

[@ivanwover]

Lots of surgeons are supposed to be psychopaths. Psychopaths will happily look after your well being if it suits their ends

[@johncooper6413]

Murray's contribution to an informed understanding of the British Army in action and warfare in general is quite outstanding.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

He is just a left-wing shill who constantly ridicules the UK's armed forces.

[@stephenpodeschi6052]

The 'if & buts' of history 'Monty' was not first choice to replace Gen Auchinleck in the desert. Gen Gott was appointed but was killed on his way to his new post. So who knows if 'Monty' would of risen to the top ?

[@alexwilliamson1486]

Shot down in his a/c, second pass killed him and many as they tried to escape…Gott was a capable General if I’m correct?

[@lyndoncmp5751]

Thank goodness it was Montgomery.

[@cryhavoc999]

Gott was worn out and would likely have persisted in using more of the same failed tactics and use of sub division formations that the 8th Army used allowing the DAK and Italian forces to defeat them in detail as they fought as Divisions. I suspect that he would not have been as competent a leader as Montgomery. 1 of the first things Montgomery did was get the 8th army Divisions to operate as Divisions and not split into non supporting Brigade sized units. He had to get rid of a lot of useless people doing this and filled London with angry officers telling everyone who would listen what a shit Monty was. Or at least they did until the Church bells started ringing!

[@davidfawcett3144]

Monty was no psychopath. A narcissist yes, but no psychopath. He and Patton were both raging narcissists. But that didn't stop them both being brilliant generals.

[@johndawes9337]

Patton was far from being a brilliant general.

[@AndyM_323YYY]

Monty has characteristics that go with having Aspergers.

[@johndawes9337]

@vicripoll.8239 really? Monty never lost a battle, Patton never won one and before you shout MARGET GARDEN that was not Monty..look at Brereton,Browning and Williams for planning it and Gavin for cocking it up

[@aaronleverton4221]

@@johndawes9337 The idea of an airdrop was Monty's. And 17 consecutive drops had been canceled as ground forces overran the objectives with unexpected ease. When the time came Monty made himself absent from planning, the very thing that had made his name in the first place. Browning may have to shoulder the blame for a load of the bad planning decisions, such as dropping 1st Airborne too far from its objective and concentrating on the basically valueless Groesbeek Heights, but Monty was the manager and he didn't manage. There was one thing Patton was unequivocally brilliant at, a skill he shared with the Commander, South-West Pacific Area.

[@johndawes9337]

@@aaronleverton4221 Wrong Monty had zero to do with MG and as for Patton he was about as much use as boobies on a snake..Metz was a classic Patton cock up

[@charliecroker6445]

Getting VD was also another of getting off the front line , you'd get your oppo to put a matchstick down down his japseye and then pass it you and hey presto I've got a dose.

[@SvenTviking]

Monty was not a Psychopath, he had compassion and cared for his troops.

[@harryplummer6356]

Right on Sven. No doubt he was difficult at the interpersonal level though. Cheers!

[@nicktecky55]

My stepfather was in North Africa, El Alamein I and II. So he walked to Alexandria and back, as he put it. Compassion? That had nothing to do with it; they all knew that if it was necessary, they would be ordered in to die. He was very clear, they admired Monty because he stood up to Churchill. He refused to move without a three to one advantage over Rommel, both in men and materiel. That told the ranks that they were being given the best possible chance to win. Winning meant not only surviving but also going home at the end of it, not being left in a prison camp to rot. Above all, they had no time for Churchill, because he was seen as a warmonger. There's nobody hates war more than a soldier. On the other matter, he told me that the "ladies of the night" in Cairo liked the British soldiers because they were clean. I thought he was talking about soap and water!

[@krautreport202]

He cared for his troops but he certainly had no compassion. Everybody who ever talked with Monty said something along the lines of: "This guy is weird. He got no social skills and zero empathy."

[@kelteklew]

Making sure your guys are fit enough to die fighting the enemy is not compassion its common sense.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

@krautreport202 Er so why did the American commander of XVIII US Airborne Corps Major General Matt Ridgway, write this to Montgomery after the Battle Of The Bulge: "It has been an honor and a privilege and a very great personal pleasure to have served, even so briefly, under your distinguished leadership. To the gifted professional guidance you at once gave me, was added your own consummate courtesy and consideration. I am deeply grateful for both. My warm and sincere good wishes will follow you and with them the hope of again serving with you in pursuit of a common goal" Explain?

[@David-h4z2s]

He looks like Grandad From Only Fools And Horses here🎉

[@stephenwoods4316]

I lived in Binsted where Monty is buried with a marble headstone and people that served under him cut bits of the headstone off because the admired him so much.

[@Jeremy-y1t]

He was a child abuser, like Slim.

[@offshoretomorrow3346]

Richard. Could you translate that first sentence from gibberish?

[@Herring1967]

seems pretty clear to me. Try again. All the best.

[@RoundSomeStuff]

Montgomery had Asperger's Syndrome so could not engage in a meeting of minds with colleagues. Men serving under him did not expect him to consider their point of view so never met this aspect of his mentality.

[@joemahon3284]

He had been in ww1 and seen the utter waste of good soldiers and, like most of the other british generals in ww2 who had been junior officers in ww1, did everything they could to protect and not waste there men in ww2.

[@johncartwright8154]

Having seen interviews with and clips of Monty, I postulated that perhaps he was on the Autism Spectrum with his rather awkward manner. Same with the 'Falcon of Malta', 'Buzz' Buerling, unruly, obsseive, but one of the most successful fighter pilots on the Allied side. Chap I know who is on the Spectrum, felt the same from his own experience in regard to both personalities, and my youngest daughter, who is a Mental Health Professional came to the same conclusion on reviewing the facts.

[@yossarianmnichols9641]

No doubt, Asperger's would be a very good brain for planning massive battle details. Being able to ignore other voices to make decisions also a plus.

[@timbuktu8069]

It just hit me. The VD epidemic occurred BEFORE penicillin.

[@Ken_oh545]

Yes that's right, Fleming's contribution didn't hit the shelves until 1928! (This was in the Sunday Times crossword yesterday!)

[@augustseptember3503]

Not sure I learned anything from this clip.....

[@andrewclayton4181]

In Spike Milligan's war memoirs he writes how they were each issued with a condom as they were approaching north Africa. Just the one, they were clearly expecting a short war! They blew them up and batted them towards the beach.

[@GWAYGWAY1]

You should realise that. Monty was an ‘Aspie ‘ and as such is a non compliant . He did not fit in socially with most.

[@TheSgtsMess]

The Black Lion was a real problem.

[@davidshattock9522]

The Americans bless em had only been in it for about 2.years so losses to suit lessons learned

[@xxxyz721]

My friends dad was backing a keep out of a transport plane and almost ran him over…. He got a ticking off from his superior for missing… :).

[@Fredders88]

Sneaky anti-Catholic dig there by Murray. Never misses a chance.

[@patrickparsons2378]

Just another ignorant bigot.

[@johnrussell3961]

Patton said he’s got an ego as big as mine. But I admit it, and he doesn’t.

[@militarymarch3006]

Everyone wants to believe their favorite general is (on a scale of 1 to 10) a 9 or 10 and the generals they don't like are a 1 or 2. Such assessments are not based on objective criteria but personal bias. They all have positive attributes and shortcomings, and all of them made mistakes. They are, after all, human.

[@nickmiller21]

Queens regs sunburn is self inflicted bang right as a soldier I don’t report it. Thohgh Syphyliss lol

[@nickdanger3802]

Montgomery was sent to France with the British Expeditionary Force. Predicting the operation would be a disaster, he trained for tactical retreat. In June 1944, Montgomery commanded all the ground forces taking part in the Allied invasion of Normandy. National Army Museum Bernard Law Montgomery: Unbeatable and unbearable

[@robertstorey7476]

That about sums him up, but he wasn't a psychopath.

[@sharonprice42]

Murray made a big mistake saying Montgomery was in charge of D-DAY .When everyone knows it was Eisenhower.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

sharonprice42, Eisenhower was just a figurehead. To all intents and purposes, Montgomery dictated the battle.

[@sharonprice42]

@lyndoncmp5751 Eisenhower was supreme commander, it was always going to be an American in charge due to the equipment they supplied Britain and Russia with and the amount of men they had the only person Eisenhower had to answer to was the President of the US everything Bradly , Monty or Patton did had to go through Eisenhower he was the supreme commander and he wasn't to happy with how slow Monty was with Market Garden. The Americans liberated Paris and were the first to the Elbe to meet the Russians. Remember the Americans were also fighting and beating the Japanese at the same time .Britain had surrendered Singapore and Hong Kong to the Japanese

[@nickdanger3802]

@@lyndoncmp5751 IWM "General Dwight D Eisenhower (1890-1969) was appointed Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces (SCAEF) for Operation 'Overlord' in late 1943 and headed SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force), which oversaw the entire liberation of Nazi-occupied north-west Europe. Eisenhower was in charge of making all final decisions relating to the invasion and although he is sometimes criticised for focusing too heavily on politics, he was a skilled administrator known for his tact and diplomacy. He tried to ease tensions between members of SHAEF and to place the needs of the alliance above national interests. He also took his responsibility for the lives of his men very seriously. In the days before D-Day, he secretly wrote a message to be released if the invasion failed, in which he accepted full blame." A Who's Who of D-Day page

[@diannegooding8733]

It is not usually sex workers who have an STD, they know to keep the tools of their trade clean and sharp. It is the enthusiastic amateurs that reek havoc!

[@petegarnett7731]

A psychopath who looks after his own men. The ideal general when your back is against the wall. You have to watch them in peacetime though.

[@davidshattock9522]

Hated special forces too eg sas commandos

[@AnBreadanFeasa]

Clearly the British Army chaplains of WW2 and the Vatican have much in common. How ecumenical of them all 😆😆

[@keithfarrell3370]

Classic