Alan Moore’s Interminable Ramble: Twilight of the Superheroes

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Tom Scioli (author of Jack Kirby: The Epic Life of the King of Comics) animates and narrated Alan Moore’s lost DC Comics pitch: Twilight of the Superheroes. In 1986, after the success of Watchmen, Alan Moore pitched a series that would unify all of DC Comics into one apocalyptic final story that would elevate the entire superhero genre into a genuine mythology. Before this proposal could be approved, Alan Moore’s relationship with DC Comics ended abruptly over their refusal to return the rights to Watchmen back to the authors. To this day he’s sworn never to work with them again.
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[@GoShanePlays]

It speaks volumes for Alan Moore's imagination and talent that reading a "rambling" pitch of his has more substance and nuance and offers more satisfaction than some fully produced comics series and graphic novels. The man is incomparable

[@alexrexaros9837]

I think he thought about it for some time before actually pitching it. Well, maybe he thought of fractions of this story, borrowed it from other projects he had in mind, and then made it into this. Creative processes are finicky things

[@Kriskazam]

@@alexrexaros9837 both valid

[@OomaGooma]

Wow! Imagine having so much power and influence within the comic book community that you got Alan Moore to narrate your video.😁

[@Daxsymbiote]

I'm pretty sure that's not Alan's voice. He has a very distinct, strong, and proud Northamptonshire accent. No disrespect to the wonderful narrator.

[@austineaton2646]

​@@Daxsymbiote It's a joke

[@Daxsymbiote]

@@austineaton2646 Sorry Austin. Humour can be hard to convey in a text format, if you don't know the person. I meant no offence.

[@CordellPotts]

​@@DaxsymbioteEmotion all together can be difficult to communicate through text.. Example: "Get The Fuck Outta Here"😂 "Get The Fuck Outta Here"😡 Without the emoji though?

[@loganwendigo937]

I love Moore's pitch and how much he knew about DC's silver age but the story itself was way too dark & edgy. I completely understand why DC passed on it

[@dullknifefactory]

Dark for it's time perhaps..in recent years they've done much more jarring stories..maybe

[@gabbar51ngh]

Yeah, they need to retrofit the story a bit and it could work. I see why it was rejected.

[@andybrining]

What a missed opportunity. Instead we got 30 years of DC strip mining this pitch and picking the bones of his other short stories.

[@piotrd7355]

Lol. As if he hasn't done the same thing before. Moore may consider himself a comic book god, but he is not. Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison, John Ostrander, Keith Giffen, John Smith, Peter Milligan, Howard Chaykin, Rick Veitch, Kurt Busiek, J. M. DeMatteis, Mike Carey, - all these creators and many others are at least on his level. And these are just mainstream writers. And there are still: Alejandro Jodorowsky, Philippe Druillet, Jean Van Hamme, François Marcela-Froideval and so on.

[@jagnestormskull3178]

Incest and BDSM with *Billy Batson of all people* was never going to get past editorial. I'd like to point out that this is not a regular Elseworlds story. This is a possible future (I think there was a 13-year time gap or something), so anything done by the heroes is going to need to be something that, 13 years in the future, you could see the characters doing. What happened in the missing 13-years still needs to be in-character for the heroes, or at least older versions of them. Wonder Woman changing her title to Superwoman as an act of submission to a literal patriarch is.... questionable, at best. Dick Grayson took the title of Nightwing because Superman had told him about the Kryptonian myth, emphasizing his compassion (in opposition to what Alan Moore says about him) and his position as the synthesis of the Batman/Superman ideological conflict. And no, fridging Starfire doesn't make up for it.

[@Plxlinixy]

John Constantine OC Donut Steel as stated by Alan Moore. I've remembered this pitch read to me by a fan back in the day, but man oh man is this wondrously loaded with a young creator with a load of hubris.

[@radiak55]

Based on Alan's on commentary interjected into the pitch, he not only sounds enthusiastic of the idea but is even open to the grubby hands of DC doing their thing with expanded merchandising options with games, tie ins and the like. What this means to me is that we would have received a much different Alan Moore of this pitch was approved and DC had not let their pride to keep Watchmen. But alas, if thst meant not having the Alan we have today, in a roundabout way I'm glad that didn't come to pass

[@spheremode3271]

Even of they didn't go with this pitch, if they had given back Watchmen I think Moore would have been fine with the industry. I think he would have had the same level of enthusiasm he shows here, and DC would have had the most critically acclaimed comic writer of all time writing stories for them. It's such a shortsighted decision to get rid of decades of quality books published under your banner, superhero or not, in exchange for the sales and IP of 1 book, which they did nothing with for decades anyway.

[@dextergarner1286]

Plastic Man design reminded me of Ed Piskor😎

[@casperchristiansen2458]

There's alot of interesting parallels between this and his other work, kind of a bridge between Marvelman and Watchmen. You got the psychosocial drama of being a literal god-king from Marvelman, and the gritty crime noir and pre-apocalyptic anxiety of Watchmen. It's real cool.

[@DrMFoster7]

Around the time the Green Lantern lore came in I was thinking it had to be wrapping up soon, only to then look and realize I was 14 minutes into a hour long video. It was a welcome surprise.

[@mathewguglielmi8451]

Amazing work Tom! The narration and your designs are really inspired. I read Twilight of the Superheroes in the late 1990's when i found a copy of the proposal online. I read Alan Moore's Miracle Man run two years ago. It's only after watching your video that it's apparent to me that Alan Moore may have used the story to explore his anarchist political ideas just like in his Miracle Man run. Both Miracle Man and Twilight of the Superheroes feature bloody ultra violent battles between superpowered beings which help usher in a golden age for humanity. There's no way that DC would have allowed the story to be published as per his proposal because of his twisted and perhaps debased takes on the characters. Mary Marvel and Captain Marvel 's alter ego, Billy Batson are brother and sister! The original Captain Marvel stories were full of fantasy, fun and magical whimsy but Alan Moore brings in gloom, a sex addicted Billy Batson and incest. He describes Blackhawk as a street level , leather clad fascist, when i recall Blackhawk was created by Will Eisner and was Polish. The characterisation of Oliver Queen and Dinah Lance seems spot on. Some of the plot elements seem seem somewhat similar to Kingdom Come.

[@raphaelbittencourt4430]

Yeah, in Kingdom Come Mark Waid straight up uses Moore´s idea of a insane older Beast Boy who spends most of his time in the shape of animals who don´t exist, but in KC he is named Menagerie instead of Chimera.

[@petehill7280]

Not to mention that the original stories have the Blackhawks fighting the Nazis, the Japanese, and various minor Axis-aligned military juntas EVERY SINGLE ISSUE.

[@raphaelbittencourt4430]

@@petehill7280 To be fair, Will Eisner has admited he was inspired by fascist imagery when he created the Blackhawks, their costume is heavily inspired by the uniforms of the SS

[@jagnestormskull3178]

Yeah, _Kingdom Come_ and _Armageddon 2001_ both take inspiration from this proposal. Thank G-d that _Kingdom Come_ didn't turn Billy into a literal manchild who frequently engages in incest and prostitution.

[@jamesedwardclard]

I do like the twist at the end with the woman and Constantine

[@esean1]

Read this online several years ago. I used to wonder if Moore had any specific artist in mind. To the best of my recollection, he never mentions one in the proposal. Because of their work with his scripts on SWAMP THING and the dark tone of the story, I used to imagine TWILIGHT being drawn by Steve Bissette or Rick Veitch with inks by John Totleben.

[@sethleoric2598]

Really wish this series came into fruition, it's such a cool concept.

[@ryanspengler4877]

John Tottleben and Steve Bissette would have straight MURDERED this thing to perfection on the page. Imagine this on old school newsprint? 👨‍🍳💋

[@GoldenChiild]

Someone else mentioned Alan Davis who I thought would be perfect but seeing what Totleben did with Miracleman would have made him and Bissette a great team for this as well

[@doctorwolfman5221]

The animated bits and narration make this sing.

[@CabezasDePescado]

That was absolutely gripping storytelling

[@TopDrawer_Art]

I love this! You should do another video covering Morrison’s Superman 2000 proposal.

[@johnv3623]

YES!

[@tatesears8958]

Haven’t watched this yet but am beyond hyped to see this brought to life!

[@z_bill]

Incredible! You are on a roll. What a fantastic project! This has got to be the foremost chronicle we have of this material now, complete with a full voiceover (very impressive!) and animation! You rule, Tom!

[@russworks2882]

I like how he concludes by saying he has not caused any damage to the overall continuity after having brutally violated and corrupted so many characters. You can tell that he is a lover of DC mythology by his ability to command so many elements of it so masterfully. He apparently loved DC so much he wanted to fuck it senseless. You've got to appreciate the audacity of the whole thing. It's so good that you also have to question whether DC would've dismissed it out of hand, given Moore's record of sales success. What we can infer is that the proposal was admired enough by lesser creators for them to strip-mine it for their own watered-down crossovers.

[@mattemery4081]

I think the ending implies that because Constantine didn't get together with his future wife, the entirety of the story doesn't end up happening.

[@russworks2882]

@@mattemery4081 Absolutely right, thus Moore's reassurance about continuity. It didn't happen, except that we saw it happen.

[@henrygambles3652]

@@mattemery4081 The Characters are still badly written versions and out of character!

[@mattemery4081]

@@henrygambles3652 it's not a terrible idea, it's just a bit "look at me I'm super dark and hey wouldnt it be dark and scary if superheroes were real people", but that's only because of hindsight. In the years since Watchmen's publication we've had so many versions of this. It's not bad characterisation, it's meant to be every character taken to its logical extreme

[@henrygambles3652]

@@mattemery4081 Mate Thats why it’s awful because The Heroes of the DC Universe are meant to be what would happen if the be very best people alive got Super Powers, they’re meant to be ideals and it is Awful character ization, Superman is not a tyrant, Wonder Woman is an equal to Superman not subservient,Billy Batson is not some horny Sex obsessed Pervert! Like if you like this good for you but you cannot honestly tell me that these are good representations of The Iconic Heroes they’re meant to be! That’s why the Boys and Watchmen work because they create their own characters and you don’t have to worry about how Moore or Ennis respectively would fix any time they crossed the line of Morality!

[@driveasandwich6734]

I think he repurposed the superhero slum idea for Top 10

[@christoferprestipino7433]

This is genuinely amazing.

[@TheZooropaBaby]

Thank you for doing this, Tom! I’d love to hear what you think do proposal, including Alan’s complaint about crossovers and continuity reset

[@princeofcupspoc9073]

55:10 There's the money shot, right there.

[@apolloforabetterfuture4814]

Everyone knows Alan Moore is a genius but fuck this is incredible.

[@acuerdox]

it's like game of thrones but with superheroes, honestly, this man is pure poison.

[@carbootstudios2459]

Pure poison?

[@acuerdox]

@@carbootstudios2459 yeah, it's like living in ancient Greece and writing a book were Odysseus kills his wife and son.

[@carbootstudios2459]

@@acuerdox okay

[@carbootstudios2459]

@@acuerdox okay

[@augietrautz]

I love you guys for this. Do Veitch’s Jesus/Swamp Thing next!

[@russworks2882]

Fantastic idea, and a script and art actually exist for this one.

[@edc7905]

*EDIT - thank you to everyone for the answer! I don't understand why Constantine was searching for Gold though. He wanted the old man/Metron for the Mobius Chair, but not sure why Gold. Did I miss something? What was the goal there?

[@RyanBro]

He makes his army gold equipment so they are not affected by the green lanterns

[@edc7905]

@@RyanBro thanks that makes sense now.

[@Scary_sarah]

Tom and Rob Liefeld are two cartoonists who are lowkey amazing impressionists

[@joncarroll2040]

Do a search for "Neal Adams" and "Elmer Fudd"

[@davidgrantlloyd]

Great video. Well done. So tragic this comic book never happened.

[@kylecarter1599]

Great work, Tom. I love coming back to this version of this story.

[@GoldenChiild]

This is freaking awesome !! Love how you presented this Tom. I remember hearing about this and cannot believe how stupid DC was for not doing this. It would have been epic . Thanks for posting this.

[@markbelkin1303]

I like the part at the end about merchandising, when merchandising is what tore apart his relationship with DC. If they had just paid him for the Watchmen watches, theyd have made billions on the Games of Thrones show this story would have been made into.

[@TopDrawer_Art]

Also just imagine if Moore recycled this idea and spin it into a creator owned novel book by himself, with character pastiches instead of the DC owned ones.

[@TheZooropaBaby]

I feel like Rick Veitch was showing characters sketch for the project Rick and Alan were brainstorming which featured crap tons of superhero characters, though I guess Alan favored doing League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

[@TopDrawer_Art]

@@TheZooropaBaby that’d be great, but not sure if Moore is even interested in doing comics anymore. I could see it being repurposed as a fiction novel though, as Moore has been more interested in sticking in doing those instead.

[@arcadiaberger9204]

@@TheZooropaBaby I like the idea of replacing the DC heroes with new characters or maybe even better public domain characters: Black Cat for Black Canary, Fly Man for Doll Man, Carnacki the Ghost Finder for Constantine....

[@TopDrawer_Art]

@@arcadiaberger9204Also keep in mind that the Quality characters are too in the Public Domain, DC only owns their trademarks. Same goes with the original Captain Marvel & the Charlton characters.

[@arcadiaberger9204]

@@TopDrawer_Art That's an interesting thought, especially since the bar in Washington where the staff and regulars were all Quality Comics characters is the part of the entire proposal which feels the most like it really comes from Moore's heart, but I suspect that a comic (or story) starring Phantom Lady, Doll Man, Blackhawk, &c. would be CERTAIN to draw a lawsuit from DC. I wrote a story myself in which the Fox Features Syndicate version of Phantom Lady had a sexual encounter with the Black Terror. After considerable anxiety over the issue, I finally changed her name to Lady Fox Phantom, and added to it that she was a *_hengeyokai,_* a Japanese were-fox (actually, a fox-were, since it's a fox which can take on human form).

[@kylejohnson423]

Dear Alan Moore. Who hurt you?

[@laurencefinn1347]

Tom, very decent, impression.

[@humblekhadjit]

I like to describe Alan Moore as "an ideas guy with a jaundiced view of humanity." While full of interesting ideas that can serve as a jumping off point, Moore's poison needs a good couple of revisions by someone who doesn't think that everyone is terrible at their core to make this an interesting story instead of a suicide note.

[@arcadiaberger9204]

I think that's a slightly too jaundiced view of Moore himself, personally. I think of him as the drop of poison that can purify a contaminated well.

[@jagnestormskull3178]

Incest and BDSM with *Billy Batson of all people* was never going to get past editorial. And a number of other things too, like Diana's title change, Nightwing becoming darker and edgier and losing the level of compassion that sets him apart from Batman, basically every superhero losing their ideals, and a lot of the X-Men-villain-esque "reclaiming Earth for humanity" themes.

[@kerwinjohnson1349]

How in the FUNK did you pull this one out of your hat? Most Excellent!

[@JohnDCochise]

Wow. DC screwed up not making this. Could have been the Earth X of DC.

[@punishedvenomdeat8153]

If only there was a DC equivalent to Earth X In existence

[@danielstjohn3018]

I'm really sorry that Alan Moore left us too soon.!! He told us some great, enjoyable Super-Hero stories. This 'pitch' was Epic.!! I wished he would return ... and offer to write super-hero stories again...!! ... Offering to work for the Big Two again.... at his 'price'...!! Let him write his own 'ticket' ... control of his material... and rights to remuneration ...satisfactory to him.!! Let the best Company 'win' him.... or ... if he can't come to a satisfactory agreement... just let it go. He's almost too fine a talent ... not to be writing Legendary Tales for our Super-Heroes...

[@mattemery4081]

This is shimmeringly brilliant

[@Tonydash23]

What a crime that this was never produced . BTW I love the way Alan Moore says “Super-Man” 😉

[@bujilou]

I'd love to hear a grant morrison impression lmfao

[@GoShanePlays]

So much work went into this, thanks Tom!!

[@CabezasDePescado]

Dude that Doll Man thing sounds so well thought in how fucked up it is, i really want to see that

[@TedSlautterback]

What a great story! I'm so grateful for this.

[@Dingleberrycrunch36]

GIVE US A JOKER AND GORILLA GROD SITCOM LIKE THE ODD COUPLE

[@changvasejarik62]

After reading LoEG: tempest miracleman, and listening to this, the Whole thing feels like an unsettling and kind of sad look in how Al and comics changed over the decades.

[@NextToToddliness]

Something tells me Moore didn't read much X-Men 😂

[@dextergarner1286]

Why do I feel some of this was pinched for Justice League Dark Apocalypse War animated film with a mix of Injustice and Game of Thrones. When did Alan Moore pitch this? I feel it’s a little too wide in scope and should be narrowed down to the more hype aspects. I like the Houses intrigue but it’s really difficult to see some of these characters forming groups without more evident catalyst like Injustice had, so maybe an elseworlds tale is in order. That way you can alter the personalities without challenging the current runs. Basically self contained graphic novels. But I think the core plot is within the Royal Houses drama in attempt to gain complete power and influence over the planet. So ditching the modern social-economic themes and playing up a more feudalism like in China, Japan or Europe has in the past. The villains attempting to destroy houses or infiltrate and establish their own. The other piece of the main plot is the alien group. Rather than an alien purge, I would just keep that the alien groups are fearing the Houses expansion outside the sphere of earth’s solar system. Perhaps one of the Hawks is challenging their counsels to hamstrings Earth’s efforts. Which launches the primary conflict. I like the idea of a gathering unlikely heroes and calling them the new Challengers of the Unknown. Maybe one of Batman’s progeny. Terry McGinnis. I’d prefer a powerful House that is maligned to a dictatorial control of earth. House of Thunder would be much better served as this with Black Adam running things. A House of Secrets would be a wild card, doing good and evil. House of Steel should also be lead by an morally ambiguous royal court whether progeny of Superman or not. Superman has chosen Solitude off world after Black Adam’s established power base. Shoes is family oriented but not completely retired he chooses not to interfere as he feels that interference has consequences - he rather humans run the world themselves. Just ideas. I’ll end here until someone writes a check or an artist is down to make a pitch. 😂

[@Plxlinixy]

Having said that, have you noticed just how much of this pitch as oddly been brought back in various bits and pieces in later event works in DC? It's not a surprise really as this got leaked around in so many fan circles at the time. Zero Hour, Final Crisis, Flash Point some of Morrison's DC work played around with some of these ideas, and there's even bits of it (regarding the houses) that got pinched by Mark Waid for Kingdom Come. So in a way you've already received various versions of his ideas under a variety of other projects it's inspired with different scopes.

[@dextergarner1286]

@@Plxlinixy completely. It’s really off putting in a way. Like DC and Marvel are still pilfering ideas from the greats and passing it off as “works that are in development”.

[@TheZooropaBaby]

@@dextergarner1286 I think he turned in the proposal in 1986-87 before he got soured by DC by Watchmen ownership shenanigan and the rating of books (DC wanted to label books mature/general audience which was met with lots of resistance including Alan, Frank Miller and maybe Len Wein?) so in his actual interminable rambling (takes up lots of pages lol) he painstakingly explains how he thinks continuity reset is not something hes fond of, how he thinks crossovers got to be good so that it's not annoying like Marvel's Secret Wars, etc.

[@dextergarner1286]

@@TheZooropaBaby wow. That is really really interesting when you sit back and take a look at it all. Because the idea that he proposed looks to have been farmed out to all of the aforementioned events and titles from my perspective.

[@TheZooropaBaby]

@@dextergarner1286 yeah the pitch kind of feels like his way of saying "hey I can do Secret Wars/Crisis on Infinite Earth too!"

[@57snador]

Shares some bits with Kingdom Come. No wonder Alan Moore no longer sends Mark Wsid Saternalia cards!

[@mrbatman3008]

Kingdom Come is better than anything Moore could ever write

[@ianbruno237]

Even tho I like how crazy this is with corrupting of the silver age in the 90s after crisis I gotta give kingdom come credit for scavenging the good parts and scraping everything else, making the book a little more structured. These kinda stories are always better as elseworlds

[@ajnorthrop9121]

very nice job, Tom! Love that you used the Miracleman cockney pronunciation of “suparearo”.

[@gavinmaitland80]

Its not Cockney if your from Northampton.

[@ajnorthrop9121]

@@gavinmaitland80 Not referring to Alan Moore's accent, I thought Tom slipped in the pronunciation as an Easter Egg reference to the "a nero. A soup arrearro" cockney kid from Miracleman.

[@gavinmaitland80]

@@ajnorthrop9121 oh fair play mate. Soz.

[@ajnorthrop9121]

@@gavinmaitland80 fink nuffin ov it guv

[@FirstnameLastname-my7bz]

Why not also place some Supermans and Flashes in time traveler. But then again, it is Moore with his own "unique" vision. Like how he credits Mort Weisinger for creating Superman.

[@goku-pops7918]

This story is great

[@chrisjones6864]

I’d love to hear you do his who killed peacemaker pitch

[@stabbityjoe7588]

I know this pitch is pretty old but does anyone else think this would be better if the time jump was more significant

[@TheAlmightyAss]

Iirc, the superheros as a new mythology was a cool Jack Kirby idea in Fourth World. I do wonder what would have happened if comic books went this way.

[@RighteousBrother]

Great work man! I always struggle reading this treatment. The voice isn't perfect but it's bloody close enough! I think this was treatment so influential. Reminds me of Kingdom Come, Old Man Logan etc

[@Scout555]

Play on .75 speed

[@erikd9725]

Doll Man needs a movie! 😮

[@TheRavenShadowsWolf]

First, Captain Marvel Junior would also be Mary Marvel's son since it was never directly mentioned he was adopted; so apparently Mary Marvel is just straight up fine with incest? Referencing the Arthurian legends - it was Arthur who had the incestuous union (which he was unaware of at the time, being asleep and I believe kept that way magically during, if not injured while it happened and convalescing - there are a few accounts) The "dire" consequences was Mordred slew him, because he'd been trained to hate Arthur for his mother's ambitions (and probably being jilted) So they slew each other, and no one really got what they wanted. Guinevere and Lancelot actually took vows for the cloth rather than being together forever afterward [which always confused the hell out of me honestly] once they'd got caught just as Arthur was dying - Yea, it took them that long to "give in" to such "insane" chemistry. Take that First Knight. (Though it wasn't a bad movie) That was how much both of them either LOVED (in Lancelot's case) or cared for Arthur and both respected him either way. So the idea is not as subversive in presentation as I think perhaps Moore believes it would be. Aside from it disrespects the fact that Mary and Billy have married in the comics before (May in time again, if we can get back to actual good story telling over overt political messaging) and quite happily. So it wouldn't necessarily need be just a political union. Edge for no sake but edge, isn't. It's more cranky, or cantankerous. I will say I like the Supes and Wonder Woman pairing though I had traditionalist reservations at the new 52's wrench in Clark and Lois' marriage thanks to my favorite superhero TV show to that point having been the Dean Cain/Terri Hatcher spun lead up to the comic event (which actually rather borked some of the run of that show quite frankly) Diana does in fact suit his actual power level, and frankly doesn't need to be as competitive as I see Lois' stubborn streak & feminism at time, depending on how she's written. But more her mother's daughter... You have read literally ANYTHING about that character, have you not??? If she's sweet natured it's undoubtedly more from Clark. Don't get me wrong I think pairing with Supes would absolutely soften her Amazonian bullshit since he's the epitome of everything Diana not only wants but needs in a relationship. Except while she can be kinder than some take her for, she's got nothing on the guy actually nicknamed "the big blue boyscout." 6 minutes in and I think I'm gonna tap out. I agree with the base idea of a tying in world binding event that would make them an actual mythology; but then again, I believe it already is. It's grown to be one, over how many generations. People LOVE these characters in a way I do not think either DC or Marvel fully understand, since they more approach story telling these days as inherently their BUSINESS. So really at the end of the day, while I can respect his work is loved, I would challenge the core of this spin. It would be redundant. [Now, if it could fix the tailspin either of the big two have found themselves in at least insofar as the comic side of their industry... that might be another kettle of fish, entirely]

[@CabezasDePescado]

Just as i Alan was talking about House of Lanterns and the alien purge thing i thought "Wait, what about Superman then?" And then it got answered right there lol, so far this sounds great, DC could had made it as some story from the multiverse or whatever

[@chrisbenavides3176]

It seems like an awful lot of this was taken for Kingdom Come

[@hornsandthehawk]

almost as if Alan Moore is completely justified in feeling like his work was routinely stolen

[@gutz166]

And the house/clans systems was "borrowed" by Flashpoint paradox world building.

[@murder101storytime]

Not really . The similarities are that it's a "bad" future tale that focuses majorly on Superman and a little on Captain Marvel where characters are split into factions and Superman and Wonder Woman get together. That's about it. None of the issues characters face are the same, the state of the world isn't the same, none of the aged up versions of the heroes are the same, none of the battles are the same, the end isn't the same, the theme of the stories are different and the stories are told through completely different eyes.

[@djo-dji6018]

@@hornsandthehawk Almost as if Alan More himself had used somebody else's ideas plenty of times.

[@HerrFenrisWolf]

I'm very sad right now this comic doesn't exist. Altough I love Kingdome Come.

[@cassiedevereaux-smith3890]

PLEASE tell me in his version Billy Batson and Mary aren't related. PLEASE. gotdang it, Moore.

[@kylecarter1599]

I want a Plastic Man book that has the psychological aspects of this Plastic Man

[@lana_del_Rei.neet-]

i find funny how this story clearly has an anarchist message

[@forgerelli1]

Great job on this.

[@joedent3323]

I cant believe that that is you, Tom, doing the impression! It's good :) Cheers! "LiL'JpD."

[@DavidPeoplesTV]

God damn… god damn… genius

[@kerrywoolley9633]

Super Klaus and the change agents of Moronic.

[@samvandam1766]

Is it my Lucky day or what ! 😍

[@woongah]

(Spoiler alert) I would think that older Constantine knew his younger self well enough tho predict his reactions, and threw him a red herring - so, the woman in the pub would not have been future Constantine 's constant companion, just an unimportant interloper that he remembered only because - for years - he thought that by avoiding her he had cheated destiny.

[@plaidchuck]

Eh glad we got Kingdom Come at least which ended up being a commentary ironically on the anti hero deconstructed era that Moore helped usher in.

[@pupp745]

Fair play to you for pronouncing Constantine right 🤙

[@henryd98]

Bro was going through some shit

[@kirbykrackle5281]

This concept would have been great but not as continuity ( or crossover) as it strays to far from the core character moral. As a standalone (pre vertigo) maxi series it could of surpassed Watchman with the right artist, was it written or said any where who Alan Moore had in mind?

[@henrygambles3652]

Whilst I enjoy most of Moore’s work! I’m glad this never got made, it’s a bastardization of the DC universe, Most of the major DC Heroes are so out of character, he’d be better off making it it’s own thing! I blame this for starting the trend of making the DC Universe edgy, I don’t mind dark stories but the DC Heroes are meant to aspirational, IE they’re meant to be what the best people could do with incredible powers,training,technology and so forth, their stories are meant to be about good men and women doing the right thing no matter what sacrifices must be made! I’m not against stuff like the Boys or Watchmen but they work because they’re not ruining or subverting established characters

[@jeddy8469]

If DC/WB was smart they would jump on this with real budget and writing effort and have s comic version of Game of thrones

[@zoltanz288]

that sounds horrible. im tired of hero deconstruction and depression. im tired of evil superman. this is why people are loosing interest in super heroes. this is why manga rules supreme.

[@FirstnameLastname-my7bz]

The depths towards which people that 24/7 cry and moan about "edgy" comics would go while at the same time praising Moore for same shit (actually even much worse) is simply outstanding. He wasn't even the first in any of these "let's tear down preestablished refined serial hero" mindset AT ALL.

[@plaidchuck]

The saving grace is that despite being the grandaddy of the deconstructed superhero genre he still could write great non cynical fare like the two superman comics he wrote and Supreme. It’s really a shame DC and Marvel were such dicks that they couldn’t at least meet writers halfway so we could have more work with the big characters from guys like Moore.

[@FirstnameLastname-my7bz]

@@plaidchuck What do you mean?! One Superman comic he wrote had him brutally killing all non-Lois supporting cast and basically putting Superman in no win position. HOW IS THAT NOT CYNICAL And Supreme was full of cynism as well. The one side that wasn't just Silver Age Superman (and Batman sometimes) stories rip-off. People on here were moaning and crying and shitting and pissing their pants from Jimmy Olsen being killed in BvS. Are same people that praise Supreme for being "hopeful & optimism" for what it did with it's own pastishe of Jimmy Olsen. You can Not prove my point. There is no "saving grace". Just your mental gymnastics and your bias, and you wanting to be in kool kids klub and repeat whatever is trendy but "edgy" opinion around. DC and Marvel (")dickheads(") are reason why normal people read (before film came out) comics Watchmen, watch Watchmen film or HBO tv show and then discover Supreme, Spawn (lmao), Simpsons cameo, Promethea and other more obscure stuff. Same for Steve Ditko, same for Jack Kirby and many other (') wronged (') in comics industry. At least Kirby had enough common sense to work it all through. None of these could ever work without power of mainstream factory-like marketing machina. Maybe they could now, probably very much so. Sure, I admire Neal Adams for justice he fought for Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster. As well. But I dislike when narrative is SO one-sided.

[@Rocketboy1313]

I think I hate this. Just, the number of characters who have to act out of character for this to work and it is Alana Moore's most clever and wonderful favorite OC who is the framing device. And of course, the answer to the problem is "Make yourself miserable, because you hate who you will become if you are happy". And we can't just have Billy Batson be a kid and get killed because he is holding on to that vulnerable part of himself, no he has to be murdered in an S&M club by Martian Manhunter who... for some reason is doing this?

[@themmofifty7615]

I've said this for quite awhile now, Alan Moore was a bitter, cynical old man even when he was young, growing up in the background he did will have that effect. That said, damn if Comic's cranky uncle doesn't tell great stories and make salient points on the regular, questionable writing decisions notwithstanding.

[@paulpizzlewizzle]

Would be a great read.

[@CordellPotts]

Bruh, Alan did Plasty nasty😂 A prostitute made of Silly Putty? I mean, I guess hes got alot of money making options? He can be whatever the costumer wants him to be.

[@lana_del_Rei.neet-]

God i wish i could read this

[@WeirdTale]

Reducing Mister Mind with living with the House of Thunder was a stupid idea. As well as the Superman and Wonder Woman Marriage, not to mention Superboy and Supergirl being stereotypical teenagers as they come... Don't get me started at kicking the Alien's out of Earth even in the DC universe is downright laughably improbable due to the sheer knowledge, power, and as it turns out millennia of influence they had over humanity. Mr. Mind NAMED the gods after all. The Joker would have been the first to die during the Supervillain purge, literally the most fragile but the one most guilty of some of the most heinous of crimes, whatever is left of society would have never tolerated his presence. Catwoman being anywhere near working with other villains is ridiculous. She seems like the type that would have retired completely and just watches the whole shitshow go down.

[@markbelkin1303]

Who did the voice for this?

[@ian_b]

I, too, live in Northampton. I have never seen Alan Moore. What are the chances of that?

[@brunofranco4416]

Not sure what your definition of the word mythology is, sounds more like an Epic, wich is a subgenre that can fit inside of an existing mythology. The superheroes are already a mythology by definition alone, since they are a colaborative and generational storytelling tradition.

[@buzzawuzza3743]

A great read unless it they screwed it up by having hack DC artists draw it. Needed a real stylist to do it right.

[@xxcoopcoopxx]

It's called Generation. Not Evolution. All Allen Moore did was, understand generation and applied it to comics. You'll find it in Plato's the Republic. Once a world war happens, the victors are put into power permanent and make the decisions for all. Sadly, within two generations, the powerful become tyrannical. Imagine if that happened to the Superheroes. Thanks Greeks! You folks have answered all.

[@jaycejohnson6846]

It seems Alan Moore has never been comfortable with male homosexuality, in this he can only write gay men as Cruising-style fascists. No gay man ever gets a happy ending in one of his stories.

[@plaidchuck]

Which of his stories even had gay characters? All I can remember is Mr Hyde all of the sudden white knighting Mina Harker in league of extraordinary gentlemen and raping the invisible man to death lol

[@jaycejohnson6846]

@@plaidchuck The first ones that come to mind are William Woolcott from Promethea, Harold Potter and his male lover from Lost Girls (the chapter on gay male sex is depicted quite grotesquely), every gay man in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: 1969, and every gay man in Providence.

[@tommyfishhouse8050]

@@plaidchuck He did a two parter for the character Vigilante where a lesbian couple tries to help a little girl escape her abusive father.

[@jaycejohnson6846]

Oh and poor Jason King in The Tempest. I guess Moore couldn't resist killing one last gay guy before he quit comics lol

[@javvieh]

"ConstanTYAN"

[@coffeebreath5325]

👏 👏 👏

[@nickchavez720]

As much as I respect moore as a writer...I can't think this is a good idea. So dark and so focused on twisting expectations and our idea of the characters just for the sake of it. Kingdom Come acts a much better conclusion to the DC mythos than this does.

[@FlushedNoob]

El Chuper Barrio 😂

[@johnnyg2186]

So future Constantine is an anarchist

[@amaljones8641]

Leave to Alan Moore to make superheroes sad and tragic figures.