Alan Wake meets Thomas Zane Scene - Alan Wake 2 PS5

[@EkpyroticBounceHouse-DunderDan]

“It’s return… because we return” cracks me up every time

[@DevilMaster]

The most important word being "we". Meaning, not just Alan Wake, but Thomas Zane too.

[@fatidicusaeternus6498]

It's impressive how different he can look without the beard, a different performance and a different camera angle.

[@Markynal]

When AW2 was announced I thought they hired a new guy to play Alan Wake. That is how different he looks in the sequel

[@praisethesun6771]

Don't forget the makeup.

[@Patrickbodhi9211]

Just proves he’s a brilliant actor

[@arran4285]

@@praisethesun6771 Also the open shirt and hairstyle

[@jacobr1671]

And a different voice actor, his own voice in this case.

[@CVoYager]

As a film director, Zane has the power to edit live footage, in other words real time, reality editing. That is why he is able to show clips from the past and change the scene.

[@Doom_Hawk]

That is a really good observation! The different aspects of Thomas Zane are a bit muddled, and who is to say who is 'real' and who isn't, but this gives a good explanation for his odd powers, at least one that isn't just related to the length of time Tom has spent in The Dark Place. This would also make him a rather formidable opponent...

[@luigicrisci7637]

The scene after the Dark Ocean Summoning also has that edit effect before Alan disappears from the shore and shows up in the past. Was that Zane's doing?

[@Cheeseman_55]

⁠@@luigicrisci7637No that edit effects with Alan showing up on the shore and with the rhymes is simply a showing of one of the dark places reality altering abilities through art like with Alan’s stories we don’t see any effects cause the story is going to happen not altering reality at the time while with Zane and Alan’s return reality is being altered in real time like a video being edited Man I love the effects remedy uses

[@dignusdingus3709]

I'd like to think you're right. Take for example him fixing up a drink for Alan, it's almost like he edits the process out and sits Alan on the couch, effectively cutting out the fat for pacing reasons and getting straight back to the important conversation with drink in hand!

[@GenericHandle666]

That’s why Wake shot Zane when he “tried something.” Zane had almost turned the tables, switching roles in the blink of an eye. Wake was afraid.

[@AlixJekyllHyde]

I love that Ilkka is in his own voice here playing Zane. You can immediately see the difference between both of them.

[@chuyperron2558]

Is actually James McCaffrey

[@AlixJekyllHyde]

@@chuyperron2558 But not in this game. Even Sam Lake said that character now belongs to Ilkka.

[@Dak1624]

@@chuyperron2558 Not here. Tom Zane here is played by Ilkka.

[@erg1947]

@@chuyperron2558 it's not. McCaffrey voiced Tom Zane the poet/diver in the first game but Ilkka voices Zane the filmmaker in 2.

[@redflag0477]

I just back to hear the Line "it's Return because... We Return" it makes me giggle everytime.

[@UGSchoolboy]

It's called return Because we return

[@dignusdingus3709]

Loved this line, it's so silly, so Remedy.

[@alanwakeup3344]

Brilliant. Every single second of it.

[@theodenmannix4362]

it's such a writer's line I love it

[@Howitchewstofeel5gum]

🤯🤯🤯

[@bonado3009]

he is not zane rigth, he is scratch?

[@iamrightyouarewrong6730]

this guy has the real voice of alan wake. think about that

[@kristoffseisler2163]

His real voice is so damn close to the dubbed one, only difference is obviously the Finnish accent

[@colbyboucher6391]

Remedy _considered_ letting him be Alan's VA, but decided against it. Apparently they had wanted to use his voice in the original as well but his English wasn't good enough at the time.

[@henrynelson9301]

@@colbyboucher6391very good call. I didn’t even think about or notice that they were basically ADRing all his lines in the cutscenes. It’s two people playing him, but they go together perfectly.

[@saucefreakystyle]

This is genuinely how I found out, thank you

[@Yoarashi]

@@colbyboucher6391 it's not that his english wasn't good enough (he lived in the states and the uk for some time as a kid, fairly fluent from a young age), he just has a finnish accent and that would've been odd for a guy from new york

[@aliteraryfrenzy]

I didn't consider until now that Zane is rewriting Alan as much as Alan is rewriting reality.

[@joe.banana]

the thing is, from what we know from games and books, Alan is most likely not real and is Zane's creation. And Saga might be Alan's. It's not a loop, it's a spiral.

[@colbyboucher6391]

@@joe.banana This is a misunderstanding so pervasive that Remedy put dialogue in the game where Alan _specifically_ explains why it's not true. Here's that, before I start ranting: Casey: "This is NOT your fucking playground, and I am NOT your fucking creation." Alan: "It doesn't work that way. *You can't make something out of nothing, even in the Dark Place where the rules hardly apply. It's very complicated to make fiction come true. I saw visions of what's happening. What _will_ happen. Dreams. I tried to use them in my writing. I realize how dangerous it is now, even with a paralyzing amount of planning." In other words, the Dark Place can't manifest people out of thin air. Alex Casey was a real FBI agent who Alan was unwittingly "inspired" by in the same way that he's inspired by the echoes he sees in the Dark Place throughout AW2. Alan is like Saga. Rant start: Alan Wake wrote a novel titled Departure _in which_ Thomas Zane wrote a page of the novel, which was about Alan's childhood. Zane did it because Alan wrote it, just like everything else. The game barely suggests otherwise. Because of all the fan theories, though, Remedy added a scene in The Writer where Alan himself gets confused about it and Zane clarifies. Alan: "Zane, are you playing some kind of a game with me?" Zane: "I am not the author of your story." Alan: "How can you say that when you wrote that page about me and the Clicker? It wasn't one of my pages. You directed me to it! You had Weaver guard it!" Zane: "Yes, she was needed, and you needed the Clicker. But... I am not..." Alan: "What? I don't understand--" Zane: "Alan. You should keep going." Zane seems almost confused by the question. Back to the most important bit: Alan is a seer, just like Saga. That's why he can actually communicate with her in her head, like the other Andersons, while everyone else can't. It's probably a huge chunk of why he was a prolific writer for a long time (and really calls into question what triggered his writer's block). This was first revealed in the remaster's QR code videos in which Alan says: "The Dark Place was an endless waking dream. I saw *visions* carried by the ebb and flow of different dream states. They seeped in from the reality beyond. Things I had a connection to, but also things I couldn't _possibly_ know. I used them in my writing. To make it real. So that the parts that weren't would become so. And there were visions that I knew were _not_ real, ideas that I'd lost, often of Casey. I had written about him for years. I used them as well. The lies had to _feel_ true for them to become true. *Had I always written this way? Even before? Seen things without realizing I was seeing them? Thinking they were mine? Was this what inspiration was for me?* Point being, the reason Alan wrote about a war between light and darkness when he was young, the reason he tipped the FBC off that he's a parautilitarian by writing a Night Springs episode about them without realizing it (stuff that happened nowhere near Cauldron Lake)... it's because Alan is a seer. Heck, the Dark Presence clearly seeks seers out, because they're much better at the whole "making the writing real" thing.

[@FuzzyLittleBastard]

I have the feeling its like a web with many people writing many people. The Old Gods wrote Alan and Zane plenty of times in their song, Zane writes Alan Alan writes Zane And probably plenty of others.

[@McTreeBertRELOADED]

hardest agree of my life@@colbyboucher6391

[@Doom_Hawk]

@@colbyboucher6391 Great response, by the way. I never made the proper connection about Alan being a seer until I played through The Final Draft, and it made me feel a bit silly afterwards. It is also very interesting, because the power sets of Alan vs the Andersons is quite different. Alan can peek into the past, present and future seemingly, whereas the Andersons primarily intuit the truth through muddied waters. I also wonder if Alan's powers are similarly hereditary.

[@gregmgn]

I love how Zane, having heard Alan say “Alice is in danger” takes a weary sip of his cocktail and does that amazing micro-movement of his eyebrows, like “hmm, this drink is really not bad”

[@novachikun]

Zane the Filmmaker is a sleazy bastard, but Ilkka does such a damn good job at making him so fun to watch. He is so trippy.

[@BlazingOwnager]

I find it fascinating that all of the traits they CONSTANTLY say Alan Wake had prior to Bright Falls he's devoid of after he jumps in the lake. You can see it early on when he blows up at Alice and storms out of the house, but then.. he's a calm, seemingly logical person with no hedonism. ... the anger, substance abuse, party animal side of him, however, is front-and-center between Zane and Scratch. I absolutely think that's intentional.

[@Ashbrash1998]

@@BlazingOwnager It's also for Zane in a wierd way. In the first game, you hear his voice and it sounds so much calmer and helpful. Is it because he went crazy in the loop because he never got out and won't ever?

[@joewall8210]

This is just like the scene in control dlc where jesse opens the spiral door and sees them talking.

[@dondrakore3305]

Love the connection to American nightmare in this.

[@lexradu]

Indeed. This iteration of Zane acts exactly like the Mr Scratch from American Nightmare.

[@shaokhan4421]

Damn i didn’t play Alan wake 1 or nightmare just watched a recap video and played Alan wake 2. Man i did not regret getting into it what a great game minus the ending being such a bitter sweet ending

[@ryanhowe5753]

I’m still bitter there’s still no American Nightmare remastered

[@handsdowntoo7150]

​​@@lexradu yesss! There are so many similarities....the cocky attitude, the drunken partying, the wedding ring around his neck, the "scratchy" noise that happens when Alan says his name...and if you slow the video down, its easier to see that Zane is doing EXACT SAME DANCE MOVES that Mr Scratch does to the exact same "Psycho" song! I'm convinced the filmmaker version of Zane is the real Mr Scratch in disguise. In the second game, Alan only called the entity who was hunting him "Mr Scratch" because it didn't even cross his mind that it might not be the same asshole who tormented him in American Nightmare.

[@lexradu]

@@handsdowntoo7150 Exactly, not to mention this Zane doesn't show up in the dark place in a physical form in Alan Wake 2, after his body was destroyed in American Nightmare, instead only in live action, meaning he also isn't the real Zane, but the Dark Presence itself that successful turned Alan and Casey into Scratch. So I believe Scratch works similarly to Bob in Twin Peaks, an entity that turns those weak minded he possesses into evil versions shaped by their own intrusive thoughs that they try to deny and refuse to see for what they are, unlike Saga who recognized and embraced them, which takes the power away from them, making Scratch too weak to take over somebody who truly knows themselves.

[@Solesly]

Who would have ever thought that the sentence "I need The Clicker" can be this funny 😂

[@LeocaprioDinardo]

Something REALLY IMPORTANT here, you know in the last act when Scratch is chasing Wake at the hospital is Ilkka Villi the one voicing Scratch and not Porretta? In spanish and japanese is the same, all actors voicing Zane are voicing Scratch and you can reconfirm that in the end credits. We really missed something important here guys.

[@scottish_guy5]

wow, food for thought here, thank you

[@ShadowWolf936]

I just thought it was Alan's voice distorted. It's why he always thought scratch was a monster with his face. We all know it's not. I don't think Zane is gonna get explained till the last DLC in the fall

[@rickytricky57]

@@LeocaprioDinardo in the og version isn't Porretta the voice for Scratch?

[@Saladass-kc1hh]

I like how Jesse Faden showed up for a sec.

[@vergilgm]

I think its same dialog that Jesse saw in control dlc... Some lines are same

[@GroovySlayer]

@@vergilgm I'm pretty sure that what we saw in Control is just this scene from Jesse's perspective

[@DragonOfTheMortalKombat]

True ​@@vergilgm

[@nl1638]

@@vergilgm makes sense, especially since it’s implied that the Oceanview is completely different for whoever is entering it, makes you wonder if the timelines for Alan Wake 2 and Control are rubbing together or if time moves differently between the Dark Place and the Oldest House

[@brainrich1358]

I'm starting to consider that Zane has been trapped in the Dark Place for so long he's now become the villain. He's so desperate to get out, he could be trying to trick Alan to take his place in The Dark Place so he can finally escape.

[@henriquefolc]

I think that too. In Yoton Yo, Zane (playing Alan Wake's role) escapes from the Writer's room by putting the detective Aleksi Kesa (Alex Casey) in his place. All Alan's route is based on assuming the role of the detective in AW2. Alan even said that when Casey first dies, he said that taking his gun he was assuming his role. When Alan shoots him, Casey says in his monologue: "Me and the writer, we are the same."

[@crimsonmaddog4486]

I love the sudden yet subtle inclusion of Jesse from Control. Hopefully The Lake House dlc teases more for Control 2

[@HarryRoller2k]

Get ready for a surprise in Night Springs tomorrow or maybe in a few hours depending where you live

[@left4deadfreak]

I don't know why but I love this cutscene and the acting in it, I just keep watching it over and over lol

[@TheCosmicGuy0111]

lEt ThE wAvEs Of yOuR wRitInG cArRy YoU tHeRe!

[@emilianohermosilla3996]

🔥💪🏼

[@SmittyDealio]

Just randomly turns into Fear and Loathing for like 30 seconds. Very tight

[@JulianBanerby]

''Raoul Duke, and Buk, they are my crowd''

[@MisterSmith00]

If I didn’t know any better…it’s like Jake Gyllenhaal meeting Joaquin Phoenix in a weird purgatory.

[@WohnathanJick]

Zane is actually voiced by Ilkka Villi here!

[@gayass6060]

if you cover his mouth and nose it kinda looks like him too

[@SpringrazorAzrael]

​@@gayass6060but... Zane is Ilkka Villi

[@kurhanchyk]

@@gayass6060 it is ilkka villi, just shaved

[@shandilesmanahidayat7131]

@@gayass6060 what? Well he is ikka villi🤣

[@torgosaves427]

Love the fear and loathing style freak out scene

[@forest8779]

Just the absolute best! their jam sesh brought such a huge grin to my face, god i love remedy

[@passerby1200]

I'm telling yall. Zane isn't Zane. That is Scratch from American Nightmare impersonating Zane.

[@BlazingOwnager]

I think Tom Zane the filmmaker created Alan Wake the writer who wrote Tom Zane the Diver & Poet - and not sure who wrote Tom Rhymer. I think Zane from the cutout in Time Breaker. And Scratch is the dark parts of Wake, origin unknown.. this would explain why characters written by Wake remember Tom as a poet, and ones tied to Zane remember him as a film maker. Basically someone created a version of themselves that then edited their creator.

[@LAMERFENER]

as well as Alan Wake. They are all the same person.

[@Lightsaglowllc]

I have NO idea what’s going on…and I’m loving it.

[@half.blight]

I love when Zane faced down Scratch and said "I have Returned, and Alan Wake™ 2". Gave me goosebumps.

[@freddyandfoxy7526]

2:51 i just wondered did he just prank call someone random, that was stuck in the Dark place as well, and doesn't know what on earth he is talking about or an Taken that picked up the phone.

[@dibrenn3432]

I love how interconnected control is. We know night springs was a FBC thing they introduced and we see darling and Jesse !! Couldn’t be more excited to see how it interconnects with control 2

[@allreli6943]

I still can't help but think this is actually Mr Scratch... I mean even the song... like, wtf that's the same Mr scratched used when he was dancing back in alan wake american nightmare

[@handsdowntoo7150]

I agree! There are sooo many hints he's the real Mr Scratch... - The drunken partying - He's wearing similar clothing items to what Scratch wears in American Nightmare (the white dress shirt, the black suit jacket, and I'm pretty sure that's Alan's wedding ring on his necklace!). - When Alan says his name, a "scratching" noise is played over it. - The "Psycho" song (like you said). - The cocky carefree attitude, and the big ego (including the slight pause/stutter before he says Scratch is a "freak", but later on he goes starry-eyed and wistful when he calls Scratch "magnificent" and "a true artist") - And if you slow down the video, its easier to see that he is doing THE EXACT SAME DANCE MOVES that Scratch does when he danced to the "Psycho" song in American Nightmare!

[@alien_baby7924]

Completely agree with this!

[@aloezombie777]

@@handsdowntoo7150 omg!! So is Zane a sort of alternative version of Scratch?? :0

[@penelopermolai]

American Nightmare Scratch was formed from the rumors of Alan after his disappearance and was physically defeated. So Zane here isn't Scratch.

[@corvega_joe]

The fact that “The Happy Song” is playing is proof to me that this is Scratch. It was practically his theme song in American Nightmare.

[@ZarinuLoren]

I'm so used to Ilkka with Porretta's voice, hearing his actual voice is a bit weird.

[@johnmai1650]

It's called "Return" because... They return 😮

[@jaydenhealey550]

everyone's talking about Zane I'm just glad we finally see Jesse after what feels like forever

[@mischa1981]

This is so crazy, with a bit of another hair style and no beard he looks like two different persons. On my first playthrough I didn't realize that this is Ilkka Villi as well. And by his natural voice, which suits him very well as well, he really seems like somebody else.

[@barkasz6066]

I have heard of Alan Wake when it was originally released but it was console only at the time and it flew under my radar. Then I bought Control in 2021 not knowing literally anything about it and not even watching the trailer. I only knew people praised it and the gameplay looked like a lot of fun. Then all the Alan Wake references started piling up. I jumped into Alan Wake remastered right before doing the AWE DLC and I didn't even fricking notice that Alan Wake and Darling are voiced by the same people.

[@lexradu]

Yeah, now I'm even more confident that Zane = Dark Presence = Scratch = Loki They've been telling us this since the first Game, I always found it suspicious when Tom told us to ignore Scratch, he never wanted to help Alan defeat Barbara, he wanted to trick Alan into bringing him the clicker in the dark place, he made up a sad backstory that echoed Alice's accident. Zane is The Trickster, the third Old Gods of Asgard member, Zane is for better or worse, LOKI, wearing Alan's face to make Alan doubt his own existence.

[@pierre-charlesleonhart8357]

Close - google the blue board from Quantum Break that outlined the whole plot of this game back in 2016. “Thomas Zane wrote Alan wake as a character into a story, Alan Wake wrote Zane as a diver-poet / light presence for his story… which created whom first? Closed time loop “

[@bubbletroubles5234]

Zane disappeared in the 70s and Wake was born in 77 so there's definitely a weird connection here

[@reddishcarp1237]

​​@@bubbletroubles5234Considering they introduced the possibility of time travel & time not existing in the Dark Place in Alan Wake 2, it's possible that Alan is Zane that managed to escape the Dark Place but with a completely rewritten past & name.

[@lexradu]

@@pierre-charlesleonhart8357 They probably dropped that aspect, just how they dropped the concept of Mr Scratch being a real body double created by the Dark Place based on Alan Wake as depicted by Journalists in Media.

[@L1z43vr]

@@lexradu They didn't drop any aspects or concepts. Heck, Scratch is probably still a real body double created by the Dark Place, since Alan, early in the game, still referred to Scratch as someone/something else. Scratch being able to possess Alan and Casey was a new trick, so much so that Alan himself didn't even know that.

[@Floodsye]

I still fail to understand how this man isn't in a bunch of major movies. Instead we get zero acting range muppets like Adam Driver or Tom Holland.

[@jeminatamminen]

Probably because you can count Finnish actors who've actually managed to have an international career with like, one hand. The Finnish film industry is pretty much nonexistent on a larger scale and I don't think there's ever been a Finnish movie that was very internationally successful either. There's been a couple that are known mostly to foreign film nerds but that's it really. A couple of TV shows, mostly noir cop shows have been popular abroad. Personally, I'm of the pretty firm belief that unless some kind of miracle happens, if there's to be another internationally successful movie/TV show based on a Finnish IP, it's gonna be whatever Remedy's planning to do with either Alan Wake or Control. Afaik, no one else has the same kind of scope or already existing audience than they would.

[@saxon2846]

I personally think that the Tom we see in AW2 is in fact just as much the same Tom from AW1. From what I recall, there is a theory with good weight to it that the Tom we see in both 1 and 2 aren't in fact Tom at all, but the bright/dark presence manifesting as them. The theory (from gaming university, look it up, good vid) states that Tom and Barbara escaped to a pocket dimension within the Dark Place by using a masterpiece of poetry he wrote along with the clicker. Meaning the Tom we see in 1 is likely the bright presence manifesting as Tom, or perhaps using some of his leftover conscious to project as him. Between AW1 and 2 though, we see Tom changing. Less of the Diver and more of the Filmmaker and he starts to look and sound more and more like Alan. We also see this in Control at the end of the AWE DLC. Look at that for a second. The very DLC that essentially sets in motion AW2, with the announcement of a new AWE in Bright Falls and all, coincides with the introduction of a completely new Tom Zane. And, as Saga, I don't know if you can see reality changing before you arrive in Bright Falls, but when you get there, the town begins more and more to believe what the book is writing- that Saga's family is broken and her daughter is dead. We know Wake can write reality in whatever way he wants and that he likely wrote in Saga like that to act as his hero. But, even though he states the story needs to be dark, that feels a tad excessive for Alan to write that. Sure, the story needs to be dark, but I don't think we see Saga coming to Bright Falls BECAUSE of the book, its because she's an FBI agent and that's her job. What could cause Alan to write something so needlessly dark? It could be that the Dark Place is messing with him, driving him to go deeper and deeper into a form of depression/insanity. And, if that is the case, I think the Tom we see in AW2/Control is the Dark Presence fighting the Bright Presence for what remains of Tom Zane. The Dark wins and they take over the remains of Tom, using him as a puppet to further torture Alan and perhaps even send him to the metaphorical 'dark side' of his psyche- turning his works needlessly horrific because of his unconscious mind and how his friend Zane is now turning into his enemy. Just my take on it.

[@colbyboucher6391]

Well, the Bright Presence thing isn't a theory, Remedy literally said it outright themselves. That's why we know about it at all. That being said I don't think Tom the Filmmaker is the Bright Presence. Remember how the Bright Presence kept telling Alan he was going too deep to reach him? In American Nightmare he's gone and this Tom isn't a flashbang like Thomas the Poet was. I think this Tom is literally just Alan. He missed Thomas Zane's guidance, but kinda forgot who he was, and at this point Alan was starting to think he might just be a character that he himself created ("A. Wake? That sounds like a character!") This was at a point where Alan's main demons were his vices rather than his anger and self-criticism. It's cocaine-fueled late-night party Alan, something that's mostly been implied rather than shown. He wrote about Tom Zane the Filmmaker hoping that it'd get him out of his writer's block, but with no Bright Presence around, it was literally just Alan in the same way Dark Place Casey is just Alan, it's just Alan's thoughts filtered through that character. Then "Zane the Filmmaker" kept doing the whole writing thing, just in a different medium, probably made the film American Nightmare. Now he's "guiding" other Alans a few more layers down because he's Tom Zane! That's the thing Zane does, right? Might just kill this Alan guy, though. Fair's fair. (Alan sure does try to commit out-of-body suicide a whole lot.)

[@PabloLorenzoKiwami2]

Seeing Ilkka Villi voicing, well, someone with his own appearance is surprisingly weird

[@lexradu]

Theory: Zane is the third Gods of Asgard member aka Loki. Before Alan Wake 1 The Old Gods of Asgard wrote "Lady of The Light" and Zane and Cinthya. In Alan Wake 1 Zane lured Alan in The Dark Place, tricked him into voluntarily joining him in the Dark Place by assuming the voice of Alex Casey and planted the idea of a body double called Mr Scratch that would take his place in the real world. In American Nightmare he further played with Alan's insecurities and fears by pretending to be Mr Scratch himself. In Control AWE Zane stole Alan's own likeness to make him believe they are one and the same. And then in Alan Wake 2 he plants the final idea that Mr Scratch is Stalking Alice, resulting in Alan giving up from rewriting Return, believing now he is Scratch, giving up, letting Zane in, resulting in Sage getting both of them out of the Dark Place. And then after the FBC gets him out of Alan, he enters Casey and thus gets the clicker. What Zane didn't count on however was Saga and Alan writing him out of Casey back into Alan's body, and killing him in the real world with the bullet of light, which sent both them back in the dark place, destroying everything Zane built. Meaning of there is an Alan Wake 3, Zane would have no choice but reveal his true self, and drop the mischief. Zane = Scratch = Dark Presence = Loki

[@L1z43vr]

Zane didn't lure Alan, he wrote that Alan had the Clicker, a weapon created by Zane to banish the Dark Presence, he didn't voluntarily trick Alan into doing nothing, nor did he assume the voice of Casey or plant the idea of a double. He stated a fact: "your friends will meet him when you're gone", and they did. Scratch appeared to Alice and Clay after the events of Alan Wake 1. Zane never pretended to be Mr. Scratch, and in AWE, we never really learn if that's the Zane we know, as in, Diver Zane, he's Actor Zane, probably something Alan himself created to help him. Plus, in that DLC, he never made him believe he was one in the same with Alan, he said, and I quote, "I'm *your friend, Tom. Tom Zane."* If he was truly pretending to be Alan, he'd say he was Alan, not Zane. Zane in 2 is Actor Zane, not Diver Zane, plus it wasn't that that made Alan give up writing, it was him believing neither he or Zane should get out of the Dark Place, giving in to his own insecurities, like he did in the Alan Wake DLCs, the Signal and the Writer. Plus, this whole theory hinges on the fact that Zane _has_ to be a third Old Gods member... But there already is a third Old Gods member, "Fat" Bob Balder, who died of Leukemia, this was stated both in Alan Wake 1 and in Alan Wake's American Nightmare, by Tor and Odin Anderson. You'd think they'd know their own band. Plus, the fact they call Alan "Tom" is meaningless since they only wrote the song in 1978, Zane disappeared in 1970. The song wasn't about their third member, the song was re-telling the story of Thomas Zane. And before you mention the possibility of him being a fourth member, let me remind you that every time the Old Gods are represented in Live Action, there is only _three_ members, Tor, Odin and Bob, and the only time Alan (who would probably be the stand in for Zane) sang along with them was in a musical retelling his own story. So no, Zane =/ Dark Presence =/ Scratch =/ Loki, Zane = Bright Presence... Or at the very least a merging between him and the Bright Presence.

[@lexradu]

@@L1z43vr Except there was a forth member named Loki Darkness that disappeared around the time Zane did, and at least the Zane we see in Alan Wake 2 absolutely has the characteristics of Loki, this version of Zane is all about mischief. It just doesn't make sense for Zane in Alan Wake 1 to tell Wake to ignore Mr Scratch if he wasn't working with Scratch/wasn't Scratch itself. And the Tom we see in Alan Wake 2 absolutely acts like Scratch in American Nightmare/Twin Peaks Bob

[@lexradu]

@@L1z43vr Also, in Alan Wake 1 DLC "The Signal" it's revealed Zane didn't write the page in the Shoebox with the Clicker, meaning Alan wrote it in the Dark Place at some point.

[@lexradu]

@@L1z43vr "Scratch appeared to Alice and Clay after the events of Alan Wake 1" which turned out to be a lie, since it was revealed in Alan Wake 2 that was Alan himself slipping out of the Dark Place in one of the numerous times he went to the Parliament Tower overlap. Which happened as a result of Zane planting the idea of Mr Scratch in Alan's head, who's purpose was to motivate Alan to want to escape, and therefore get out with the Dark Presence/Scratch inside him, which he did when Saga summoned out both.

[@forest8779]

Scratch definitely terrorized Alice, haunting was by far one of the creepiest chapters, as soon as that camera flashed when I got off the elevator I knew shit was bad, that and the Mr scratch pic from control awe dlc...that was yikes.

[@trashypunkman7559]

One interesting part of this scene when we see Jesse it's most likely them on the hunt for Zane for his crimes. Especially since they most likely know he worked with Scratch.

[@colbyboucher6391]

Actually, remember the scene in the AWE DLC where Jessie opens the spiral door and sees Tom and Alan? This is that scene. The dialogue was more fragmentary in Jessie's vision, but it's all there. That was a vision and this is how she appeared to them, as a TV transmission.

[@LeocaprioDinardo]

You understood nothing about AW2 story.

[@trashypunkman7559]

@@LeocaprioDinardo He quite literally worked for Scratch and we already know Jesse witnessed them. In control along with that it's implied he was Mr. Scratch from American Nightmare with the party scene. The FBC is already investigating the dark place and cauldron lake why would they not be investigating him too?

[@bryanchristianabrigo]

I love that in an interview he did, that was all Illka visualizing Zane's movement as Alan first and then aligning his movements from Alan's sight as Zane afterwards. 😅

[@zachplummer625]

I just noticed the song playing is from Alan Wake's American Nightmare.

[@mertvolkan07]

In the first game, Thomas Zane was voiced by James McCaffrey. I think they changed Zane's voice because James McCaffrey voiced another character (Alex Casey) in Alan Wake 2.

[@BlazingOwnager]

You know, it's pretty interesting how every bit of lore about Alan Wake before he went to Bright Falls suggests he was a party animal who constantly got into fights, was angry all the time and had substance abuse problems - all things post-lake Alan seems completely devoid of, but personify Tom and Scratch.

[@PifchoBG]

omg i just now realized at the end of it that its the same person. Both of them are played by the same actor.

[@Aqua311]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the two different versions of Zane: The diver from the first game who saved Alan, who was a beacon of light in the darkness. He even helped him in the DLC. And then there's this guy. What about the connections between Cynthia, the song and Emil Hartman? They all knew Tom the Poet. Questioning what's real is what it must feel like in the Dark Place...

[@kristoffseisler2163]

Ilkka Villi without beard = Joaquin Phoenix cosplaying Tommy Wiseau

[@LSK2K]

This is almost exactly the same as when Jesse peered through the door in the AWE DLC. Can someone explain why the cutscene is different than the one in CONTROL?

[@macpit6058]

I think it has to do with Control was an early version of this cutscene and this is the fully realized version

[@lentinant]

Either this is different revision of the same scene, or that scene happened in earlier loop

[@macpit6058]

@@lentinant yeah, maybe it was from a previous loop

[@InvisibleInque]

Alan also doesn’t remember everything that happens in the dark place. If Jesse is seeing what Alan is writing, what he’s showing her, I think it’s entirely possible that doesn’t remember all the details, or is filling in some blanks.

[@LSK2K]

​​@@lentinantThis is what I initially thought. How does the process occur exactly? He writes a manuscript that fails then he dies and repeats? If so then why is it repeating?

[@k.l.7788]

The Happy song NEEDED to be in Alan Wake II, so this is ❤❤❤

[@GalakStari]

I’m starting to wonder if this is an evil version of Zane, like how Scratch is for Alan. It would be another parallel between Alan and Tom: both famous authors who used their works of art to save (or try to save in Tom’s case) their wives, having to sacrifice themselves to save the world from the Dark Presence.

[@CorporalCookie]

We know from This House of Dreams that the real Thomas Zane and Barbara are living now in their own little bubble reality that Zane managed to create when diving into the Dark Place, his body then taken over by the Bright Presence. This is if This House of Dreams is still canon. I would guess that this Zane is something/someone formed from the Dark Presence or came to existence in the Dark Place after Diver Tom dives even deeper to help Alan in the end of the AW1 DLC.

[@GalakStari]

@@CorporalCookie That’s definitely a possibility. Either way, I just hope he doesn’t turn out to be the real Zane, or rather the same one from the first game lol

[@CorporalCookie]

@@GalakStari Yeah. I'm still of the opinion that it's not the original Zane (haven't yet finished AW2), but after seeing the Yötön Yö movie, I somehow got the feeling that the way Zane is in the Dark Place is... Because he changed himself into it in trying to escape. Which I also feels kinda conflicts with my thought that it cannot be the real original Zane. I'll see where my thoughts lead me after I finish. And his interaction with Tim and seeing Jesse on the TV are also interesting, or rather his reaction to them.

[@GalakStari]

@@CorporalCookie It’s definitely confusing, that’s for sure. I don’t recall him interacting with Tim, but I could be mistaken. I definitely don’t trust this ‘Zane’, especially due to the way he reacted to Jesse.

[@CorporalCookie]

​@@GalakStariIf you find Tim the 6th time, he tells you that he ran into someone who looked like Alan, but didn't act like like Alan had described Scratch. He gives a description that matches Zane and Zane asked him if he was going to a costume party since he was dressed up. After Tim says that it's not a costume, Zane immediately runs off. "Guess he doesn't like cops" is Tims comment.

[@largamau]

WAIT?!!! Zane was Ilka without the beard?!!!!

[@alexanderprokudin1218]

Dude, Zane is like Tommy Wiseau

[@GalakStari]

Oh hi Alan!

[@Timothy1395]

I immediately thought of him when I saw him lmao. I agree he gives off similar vibes too not just with his appearance though.😂

[@AnimeFrrTehWin]

Thats soo Cursed but soo True lmao

[@diackoakafrankie3151]

more like jim morrison

[@even_steven777]

I don’t think I’ve ever played a game with this many wtf moments in my whole life and I love it!

[@Oerbaify]

Tom acts very similiar to AN Scratch .. lol it makes me wonder cuz Tom seems here totally different

[@BlazingOwnager]

I don't think so. Zane is spaced out and weird, but he doesn't seem to be craving destruction or violence.

[@demetriusmccray1574]

I didn’t even know it was the same guy and I beat the game. I truly would’ve never found out if not for the comments.

[@Sokka2Me]

Is it a coincidence that they are dancing to the same song Scratch danced to in American Nightmare?

[@Роман-т7й5б]

Yes, at this moment Alan is obsessed with Scratch

[@WeCareAlot4693]

I dont fucking trust that "Zane" is Zane. No way. We are told the entire time to not trust the story, that Zane wrote himself out of the world. And then when this guy who says he is Zane shows up and says no he was not a poet, he was a filmmaker the entire time, everyone believes him. Why?

[@WeCareAlot4693]

He looks exactly like Alan for no reason, hes like his dark counterpart, hes always smiling, he wears those black clothes, when he moves around the room, it makes scratching sound effects, and the scene even plays the Psycho Mr. Scratch song from American Nightmare. This Zane is Scratch

[@BlazingOwnager]

It's my theory that Zane was always the film maker. He created Alan Wake (the rules Alan thinks exist I think is a in character error; Door says as much), who then wrote Zane as a character, and you created an insane loop. Zane also likely created True Tom Rhymer, and Alan likely created Darling. Unless Rhymer was really the first, who created them all.. Long story short I think characters created/scripted by Wake remember him as a poet; characters scripted/created by Zane remember him as a film maker.

[@isaacwilliams5724]

One of the men in the flashback is Mr. Scratch, very similar to how we saw him in American Nightmare. I just can't tell which one.

[@BlazingOwnager]

It's Wake. It's revealed that Scratch helped write Return, not Wake, so it's his dark side in the flashbacks.

[@greenth-mac2550]

I could tell Alan's voice was edited easily. I mean we all know that 2 actors portrais Alan, one is the physical body and the other is the voice, it was a little obvious but they did an amazing job to match the lips.

[@nowwhat7259]

Jesse:”I NEED MY BROTHER!” Jesse:”It’s Control because I take control.” Ahti:”And the rest is shit water through the pipes. Perkele.”

[@kurotanbo4411]

This is almost word for word their exact conversation in the AWE DLC in Control.

[@sethmalcolm6955]

THEY ARE SO HOT!!!!

[@CD-mb4bv]

I miss the cute diver tbh, I feel like they forgot that

[@handsdowntoo7150]

I don't think they've forgotten it. I think it's definitely intentional that diver-Zane is so different to filmmaker-Zane (especially since the latter acts almost identical to the Mr Scratch from American Nightmare).

[@marinadreams1]

@@handsdowntoo7150 So... Zane in 1 and 2 isn't the same "person"? This is his true self and the Diver is his creation/character he/Alan wrote which was possesed by Light (as Barbara was by Dark Presence) and was helping Alan? Are Wake and Zane-filmmaker the same person but from different timeline? Crap, this is more confusing than Dark Souls!

[@BlazingOwnager]

@@marinadreams1 My theory is that Tom the Filmmaker created Alan Wake the writer who then wrote about Tom the Poet creating the mother of all feedback loops.. err, I mean spirals.

[@joshuagcwong734]

This is my favourite scene in the game. 😌

[@anxia-tea5846]

wake’s “return” and zane’s unnamed film might have a similar relationship to AW the games and Control

[@alan_w_ake]

With his introduction lines here, Zane refers to the DLCs in the first game.

[@JKJOO]

95% sure that's the Mr.Scratch from American Nightmare

[@MrSamMaloney]

My theory is that Thomas Zane is the real writer and Alan Wake is a fictional character he created to help him escape.

[@moerizk3753]

I liked Thomas Zane’s story in the first one. This Tom seems sinister and after his own goals. AW1 Zane in the diver suit was more interesting.

[@theodenmannix4362]

dude Jesse could kick Scratch's ass so effortlessly and put dark presence into a tiny box, hopefully she saves Alan from the spiral or at least provides him the tools to escape, she's janitor's assistant after all

[@kallemort]

I don't think she'd have an easy time with Scratch although she's the most equipped to deal with him. The only reason Scratch isn't instagibbing the protagonists in AW2 is because it's a narrative (in an in-universe sense) and he needs something from them. As we saw with Jaakko, if he doesn't need you you're dead.

[@kdscool1536]

No thanks, I don't want to see that character anywhere near Alan Wake.

[@BlazingOwnager]

@@kdscool1536 Too late for that..

[@raythefox5594]

3:54 Maybe a teaser for the Lake House DLC?

[@eldonte843]

I feel like it's probably going to be the night springs DLC. It starts with a night springs logo and in control you find a file super early that implies the FBC have some kind of hand in night springs.

[@TheBlackKakashi]

I forgot all about the story dlc and I have the deluxe edition 😂

[@vergilgm]

It's that dialog what Jessie saw in Ocean View on Control DLC.

[@LeocaprioDinardo]

@@eldonte843can you remember where to find that file?

[@enigmaticperson]

In this place of the shadow and mist There is window in the floor and a door in the ceiling There is no knowing and am I standing still, Or running, or kneeling?

[@OnatGG]

Thomas Zane = Mr.Scratch = Alan Wake

[@noahsanders9720]

I love the inclusion of poets of the fall songs in the game

[@IgorSadovskii]

i TOLD YOU im a psycho !

[@Razzlesnaps]

Did anyone feel like you were watching another episode of mighty boosh with Vince noir vibes?

[@SuperAp0calypse]

This House of Dreams poem right there at 0:56

[@LeocaprioDinardo]

What? Can you elaborate more please?

[@joelfernando59]

2:34 😂

[@user-vj4dp4xr8k]

you're telling me that the actor who plays tom here is ilkka villi?! i read that he is the voice actor for tom but i did not regocnize that the actor on screen is him. and im from finland, i do know what he look like. its probably the hair. lol

[@a56br68]

i’m pretty sure this is a reference to fear and loathing in las vegas

[@notsoul2573]

In this temple of shadow and mist there's a window in the floor and a door in the ceiling. There's no knowing am I standing still? Or running? ... Or kneeling?

[@glitchmaster2672]

I NEED THE CLICKER

[@saleemkhokhar3458]

Matthew peretta is great but i dont understand why they didnt use ikka villi voice since he already sound like "Alan Wake"

[@cizineczvesmiru953]

Because when the First game came out, Ikka's english was not good enought for english dub. And they wanted to keep the same voice for the second game as well

[@saleemkhokhar3458]

@@cizineczvesmiru953 wow I didnt know that

[@Yoarashi]

@@saleemkhokhar3458 it's not that his english wasn't good enough (he lived in the states and the uk for some time as a kid, fairly fluent from a young age), he just has a finnish accent and that would've been odd for a guy from new york

[@iamsarcasticwolf]

Why does he remind me of Jim Morrison 😄

[@avian1799]

Its Departure because he disappears Its Initiation both to elude to the Cult themes and to symbolize Alans corruption by the Darkness and his transformation into Scratch, becoming the literal creator or Initiator of the Cult. Its Return because…we return.

[@ryanhowe5753]

A trilogy in disguise of two games

[@jack1394]

Have to admit, not at all what I expected Zane to look like.

[@Y.Painter]

2:34

[@XvKJP2015]

I believe Tom the Diver was the OG protagonist of Alan wake but since Wake had to make himself the Protagonist he edited it to have Tom the Diver as his Aid. The real Tom is in a Paradise Pocket Dimension he created for Him and Barbra and this Tom is either what Scratch was to Alan in American Nightmare just all his worst parts or he is to Alan what Tim is to Jack and Alex is to Max. Same person different dimension. That is why he looks like him and he is called tom. Maybe Alan is Tom or vice versa.. also the psycho song is the same that played when we saw Mr Scratch in that video in American Nightmare

[@gabrielfariasdub]

Will they provide a narrative explanation for Alan Wake's voice being the same as Dr. Darling's (Matthew Porretta)? Because Thomas Zane's voice is actually Ilka Villi's.

[@LouSassol69er]

(Minor spoiler for Final Draft NG+) Dr. Darling references his voice being similar when hearing Alan Wake narrating. So they're self aware. If it'll ever get an explanation, who knows.

[@barkasz6066]

@@LouSassol69er Tom Zane also invites Darling to do a collaboration with him and Darling says how Zane looks familiar while Zane says how Darling sounds familiar. It is possible that Alan Wake is literally some sort of Zane-Darling lovechild.

[@doolanthefox]

"I need the clicker!"

[@rupertcortes3980]

You telling me there's another Alan but different name. They look like Alan Wake but different form or being.

[@Razzlesnaps]

I feel like I'm watching a episode of mighty boosh tom Zane looks like Vince noir aka noel fielding

[@old_liquid]

Нам буквально говорят что Зейн это Скретч через музыку.

[@Egorkreed2089]

А ведь реально

[@old_liquid]

Я допрошел и это грустно. Деградация сюжета и текстов. И повестка про белых ублюдков.Половина игры гениальная половина просто говно. Первая часть сюжетно 70-80% крутая.

[@mrfishsticks266]

Thomas Zane look so much with Gotye singer

[@W980WVW]

My theory: I've just replayed AW1, and Thomas Zane is not voiced by Ilka Vili, it is voiced by James McCaffrey. This Zane is the "Scratch" of Tom The Poet

[@seankelly7956]

It's not a loop..it's a...

[@berserkerpheonix9466]

What is the ost in this scene before zane starts talking

[@sunny99179]

in what chapter it happens? It is so impressive how Ikki changes being Tom zane and Alan wake,he is a great actor indeed.

[@Memememe-is1yn]

As interesting as this scene is, I hate that they have changed Tom Zane's character so much over the series. It's like they didn't know what to actually do with him until this latest iteration and it shows. Falling back on the Hunter Thompson stereotype as a possible unspoken explanation as to why everything is so nutty is also unoriginal and a big letdown for me. That said, the fact that the first half of their conversation along with the setting (mainly the spiral painting on the wall) almost matches the first part of their conversation in the Control DLC (in black and white, like on the TV) up until they see the Control characters on the TV followed by the Night Springs logo (also just like in the other game) is really cool. Its like the main character in Control watched this same conversation from her own perspective, seeing it play out from her own perspective and what we see here was how Alan actually experienced it himself. Cool.

[@kallemort]

I don't think we've ever met Zane "prime". This Zane is 665, the Diver was 667. Neither is the true "Beast", 666.

[@WoodsAreBeautiful]

This is pretty obviously not Zane, the look of the hotel room, the outfit, music and dancing is a dead ringer for scratch in American Nightmare

[@Catdogomeow]

I wonder if Alan is a creation of Zane , since Mr Door state Alan wake is a fictional writer

[@left4deadfreak]

That's not Zane, that's Scratch