Album Length-When Are Albums Too Long...or Too Short? (w/ Martin Popoff)

[@DavysFlicks]

Roger Ebert said no great film was long enough and no awful film was short enough. Really simplistic but kinda says it.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Nah, a lot of horror and action movies would get boring pretty fast if you made them even a half an hour longer.

[@DavysFlicks]

@@ryanjacobson2508 It's not a literal statement but figurative (and I doubt he would have advocated half an hour!) - the implication is that if you're enjoying it, you want more. If you ain't? You can't wait for it to be over.

[@johnmichaelwilliams6694]

Popoff and Pardo are at it again with not only a discussion of too long or short, but also of the future of the album as an artistic medium. Really appreciated Martin's comment about the synergism of the songs together on an album as it is presented to the listener. Hadn't really considered that too much before but this episode also reminds me of the gap between my age and those of our hosts [Happy Birthday, Martin]. As someone born in the 50s and really coming to popular music in the 60s, it was the 'single' or 45, that was meant to show the artist and the song and albums were often 'thrown' together as an afterthought - either for additional sales or to send a band out on the road to capitalize further on the popularity of the singles. And now, as discussed, are songs becoming the medium themself again. Thanks for this point and the other interesting comments from the funhouse. Another top-notch episode, gents. There ya go!

[@Veaseify]

A very pertinent point you made...popular music is very cyclical, in the 1930's the Big Bands were the rock stars of their age and the singers in them were like novelty acts. Then Sinatra came along and became Elvis 10 years before Elvis and made solo singers the main thing again. Then the Beatles happened and Bands were the in thing for the best part of 40 years before solo artists took over again. No doubt in the future a band will emerge that changes the dynamic yet again...

[@katesjanice]

When you talk about album length, it depends strongly on the type of music on it. A concept album can easily become too long. Albums with a variety of tunes and forms can be longer without being added www

[@NotData]

In the 70s and 80s, I thought a record was too long when I was trying to record it onto a C90 cassette tape only to discover it didn't fit.

[@elfman5176]

A perfect example comes to mind Blue Oyster Cult’s The Symbol Remains A fantastic comeback album A little bit longer But it flies by Because every song on here is incredible imo What’s your opinion Love this show

[@Justin_Kipper]

I agree. As I listened to that album over time, different songs became my favorites. I wouldn't want any of the songs on TSR to be left off just because I may not always have time to listen to the whole thing at once.

[@trickygoose2]

I remember in the late '80s as CDs started to get really popular, people would complain about albums still generally being the length that fitted a vinyl lp. Come the late 90s there were complaints about albums that were considered overlong at about 55-60 minutes long. Talking of physical recordings, here in the UK the big news is that the famous HMV store in Oxford Street is re-opening after 4 years. Apparently, the vinyl revival means that it should be viable.

[@timsmith9953]

I remember buying Joe Jackson's Big World album - designed with CD in mind so 15 tracks - to "fit" this onto vinyl, they went for 2 discs, 3 sides of music, and side 4 intentionally blank - priced at standard LP price, so Side 3 was "extra" (otherwise fans would feel cheated at the blank side 4). Interesting news re. HMV - I was in Guildford recently, and was pleased to see that store still open - bought a number of CDs from their sale (none was more than £8), but it was a bit of an eye-opener for me in terms of vinyl - with their offer being (I think) 3 LPs for £55...

[@RickNBacker]

On Rush's early 35-minute albums like Hemispheres, there wasn't a wasted note. Once they were able to make longer albums starting with Hold Your Fire, there were songs I found to be non-essential.

[@inmyhouse11]

Happy Bday to Martin. Thank you for all your great musical insight and great conversations every Friday.

[@DavysFlicks]

The best part of the vinyl comeback is that bands are often doing 44 minute albums again because they can't make the record a double. SO many CDs filled up their 75-79mins with tracks that on a single LP era would have been used as B-Sides or not needed at all. SO many albums of the 90s and early 2000s suffer from it. I don't mind an instrumental version bonus disc depending on whether or not the music works that way. I do prefer the album of demos like the recent deluxe Tull. And if the set has a DVD or especially bluray with a 5.1 or Atmos mix? That can often be the definitive version of the record depending on who mixed it (Steven Wilson anyone? Again the recent Tull - Bruce from Pineapple Thief did a BRILLIANT Atmos mix on the bluray and that's how I'm gonna listen to it from now on. I'm not sure length even defines an EP - The Beach Boys WONDERFUL Wild Honey album? 21 minutes long. That's short for some EPs never mind an album. Weezer did a similiar thing to the Tedeschi Trucks EPs - they released an EP for each season. Ringo Starr decided to release a series of 3 EPs instead of one album.

[@ewenchalmers1312]

In relation to ''filler'', I remember reading Free wrote Alright Now to make up the requisite required time for the album and they considered it a throw away song.

[@wolf1977]

There are also MANY examples of great non-album B sides that someone at the time thought were not 'album worthy' for whatever reason, and that find their way onto later expanded rereleases

[@NoineNoineNoine]

another great show. thanks for de-stressing me after a long week of work.

[@jake6887]

TNT Knights of the new thunder: 29:45 Tell no tales: 30:46 Intuition: 36:50

[@robcressey7228]

I about wore out my cassette of Tell No Tales.

[@DavysFlicks]

Folks - it's Martin's birthday too - so wish him a happy 60th!

[@lahloonatic]

Too many good points here. To me, an album should be 30

[@Gregbaltzer]

I would consider an EP to be about 20 minutes, or around there. There are plenty of albums that are shorter than that but are consider full albums because of the number of songs on the album. Slayer-Reign in Blood is only 28 minutes long but is considered to be a full album. Agnostic Front's-Victim in Pain is only 15 minutes long but is considered to be a full length album because it has 11 songs on it. I think a lot of perceptions have changed as to what a full length album should be with the advent of CDs and being able to fit more music on a physical format.

[@williamwalker146]

"I think in the end, an album is only too long for the listener if the music isn't keeping you engaged, " Pete nailed a terrific episode in that one comment there, if you could do that. An album is only long if it's boring.

[@knightvisioniixv]

Yup. That just about sums it up!

[@wolf1977]

...and if you're someone who absolutely MUST play an album through beginning-to-end every time, no skipping of tracks ever (and not even using "Shuffle Play"). There are certainly many albums that call for that but also MANY MANY that don't (eg where the album 'holds up' as a collection of songs & rearranging tracks/skipping some doesn't negatively impact the experience)

[@jaycianfrini77]

Great episode as always I remember when Soundgarden - Superunknown came out in 1994, there was a lot of talk about how they sacrificed sonic quality to fit all those songs on 1 CD. It was possibly one of the first 1 disc albums that was longer than 70 mins. But it didn't ever feel like it was that long to me. Faith No More is another good example of long albums not dragging. Both bands have varying styles in one album and I feel that is what keeps it feeling fresh. When it's 70 mins of similar sounding songs then it can really feel like a chore to get through it. Slayer - Rein In Blood was one of my favorite walkman albums back in the day because as soon as it ended, it started again on side 2! And shout out to Minor Threat for having their whole discography on 1 Disc.

[@gabriellarrubia1006]

I think Superunknown is good front to back and the sound engineering is god-like, that's a damn good mix

[@jaycianfrini77]

@@gabriellarrubia1006 Agreed. And the 20th anniversary version is even better!

[@RodrigoAlves-bc8qq]

But FNM albums were never over 58 minutes - they were not that long. I didn't get the Soundgarden thing: how the band sacrifice "sonic quality" if 1 CD fits 79 minutes of music and Superunknown is only 70 minutes long? I would understand if they had to squeeze 70 minutes of music on 1 vinyl.

[@jaycianfrini77]

@@RodrigoAlves-bc8qq That is still long for an album for FNM. As for Superunknown, that was the news that was going around back in 94. I should have made it clear that I don't personally think they sacrificed audio quality.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

​@@jaycianfrini77 SuperUnknown was one of the last major label rock albums to not be mixed and mastered with dynamics killing loudness. So it sounds great.

[@ericdinse5047]

I just read an article about the making of Machine Head. Apparently "Smoke on the Water" was considered a filler track at the time but the record company liked it.

[@robertawesome2410]

With vinyl you would have a point if the album was to short or not, but with cd's you can play the songs in any order that you like or just skip songs you don't like. I like the extra songs they put on cd's sometimes with eps on them too. aka more bang for your buck.

[@gabriellarrubia1006]

As I'm getting older I find I'm getting fatigued by hour-long albums and I've taken a liking to anything around the 36-43 minute mark. If I want to binge a discography, the ones that clock within that average are easier to swallow and sometimes the time I have to spare to make these album runs possible is less than an hour. I still have some favorites that are longer, so it doesn't necessarily affect my opinion of its overall quality, but it DOES mean that I'll revisit the shorter ones more often. It's real easy to grow attachment to a record from the mileage you get from it. That being said- I'm still interested in recording an album or several in the prog/crossover metal realm one day, and I might be doomed to hypocrisy because they might be one hour long or more 😂 I'll sometimes throw around some story/concept album ideas and I don't know if I can get something across in a short time without being vague or loosely conceptual...

[@williamtallman9816]

I see longer albums as an exercise in self indulgence. I'm looking at you Steve Harris

[@LarryFleetwood8675]

While there were always long songs by bands, especially prog bands, the fact that there's more space on a CD at one point meant that rock bands in general would start writing longer songs. What used to be a perfectly normal length for a melodic commercial rock song, say 3-4 minutes, now 5 minutes became closer to the norm during the '90s, as if now bands didn't know how to end songs anymore... 🥴

[@gabriellarrubia1006]

@@LarryFleetwood8675 Yeah those last choruses that go on for a long fade-out... They gotta change it live anyway which is hilarious- maybe just record the song that way then

[@pvdguitars2951]

One for Martin. Do you remember Witchkiller from Canada? One 5 song EP ( day of the Saxons). And then gone!!! EP’s were a great way to introduce new bands back in the day. We all remember the phenomenal debut EPs by Savatage, Merciful Fate, Ratt, Queensryche, Slayer, Sortilege. Possibly their heaviest rawest material ever released.

[@pvdguitars2951]

Check out this EP from back in the day: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qITXd4uCd9ymidk

[@MartinPopoff]

I was buddies with Kurt in Victoria!

[@DavysFlicks]

To Pete's point about the times changing and acts making singles being depressing rather than working on the "album". That's not really an "old folk's thing" as Pete says - YOUR parents would oddly be closer to that model. The 78 and early LP were for classical music mostly. Almost all popular music was in 7inch form - hence loads of artists from Chess records not making albums till years later - ditto Freddie and Albert King. They cut records, not albums. Ditto Elvis - he made singles for Sun. Was only later when he moved to RCA he made albums and even then they didn't include the singles and contained material for less rocking audiences - Old Shep for example.

[@stevefletcher6163]

I don’t despair too much over the modern music buying direction. I’m selling second hand vinyl in my coffee shop and the number of customers that have recently bought turntables and buying vinyl again has surprised me. What’s surprised me even more are the children coming in to buy vinyl and knowing exactly what artists and albums they are looking for. Yes, it will never be the mainstream again like it was but it will reach a level where it’s sustainable and be a big enough market for artists to continue releasing albums as physical product. At least I believe it will, hopefully I’m right.

[@fredhaier5526]

I grew up in the era of the 35-40 minute album and enjoyed the vinyl I bought and listened to. Many of the 70's albums have been re-released with extra songs such as live versions of the songs on the album or a b-side. I bought Cat Scratch Fever recently and they added live versions of the title track and Wang Dang which didn't improve the tracks on the album. So if I listen to that cd I don't listen to the extra 2 tracks. On the other hand I bought Tyranny and Mutation by BOC and enjoy the original album with the extras. One of my favorite Rollins Stones albums is Exile on Main Street. It was a double lp but is only 66 minutes on a c.d. and it makes me want more.

[@jasoncmuxlow]

One thing to consider is that "albums" - full-length LPs and cassettes - were traditionally experienced like movies: One would set the needle down and listen to the side straight through, generally speaking, and then flip it over and listen to side two. Or at least that was the idea. --//- With CDs, we got the shuffle button and that's carried through to downloads, playlists and streaming. I think the effect has been that a CD is less of a sit down "experience" and more of a container for the songs that will entertain you for the next few years. I can't listen to 72 Seasons in one sitting, but I'm really glad to have all those songs to pick through, learn, dissect, etc., especially knowing it'll be at least 3-7 years before the next one.

[@wolf1977]

Yeah you used the magic word = "needle" (aka vinyl records). I feel like a lot of these complaints are around owners of vinyl albums. Also more of a focus on changing listener habits versus albums being "too long". Of course the music delivery medium is gonna affect the listener experience to some extent. Before the days of LP's there were 78's/singles & this topic was a total non-issue as those media simply didn't allow for the possibility of too-long recordings. Technology marches forward & listener habits will follow...

[@danielwolski873]

Metallica had long albums in the 80's, especially And Justice For All. The difference is, that album is amazing.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

The band had a bit of a dilemma, since they knew a fair number of people still preferred vinyl at the time and the sound quality on vinyl would suffer from the long running time.

[@brianmiller1077]

@@ryanjacobson2508 That's why AJfA was on 2 LPs

[@DavysFlicks]

But AJFA was still about 17mins shorter than 72 seasons despite being a double LP. SO the material is better AND there's still a quarter of an hour not being expanded upon.

[@cleftturnip7774]

And justice is 65min the new one is 77min

[@Hecatecrossways]

​@@cleftturnip7774 The best thing about AJFA was the absence of bass . Metal bands don't need all the annoying loud Bass guitar that so many post 1990s Metal bands featured. Save the Bass for R& B Funk, it's just to add bottom end to the rhythm guitar not to be the dominant instrument in an album mix

[@deanwolfechannel]

Awesome thoughtful conversation guys, thanks!

[@richardlandreth408]

Great discussion guys. Pete, this is why channels like yours are so important. You have turned me on to so much great music. In these days of streaming its hard to keep up let alone find new albums.

[@melvinramone2605]

Aside from long albums outlasting my attention span I have to consider whether or not I simply have time for it. For example: if an album I'm listening to while I'm driving somewhere isn't over by the time I get to where I'm going I'm just not going to hear the songs at the end of the album. I think bands have realized this and now they stack the best songs at the beginning of the album, so in addition to the amount of time being a challenge to my attention span the decreasing quality is too. I notice we don't have as many songs that seem like they're intended to a big finale now as we did on older albums too.

[@jacv8183]

Martin thanks for the Warlord shout out, it's legendary and epic!

[@gaznathemoon1128]

Martin rummaging around Wal-Mart in his pj's looking for peanut butter and CD's🤣Gotta luv it!!

[@MartinPopoff]

Wrong - I was in my ass-less chaps, towing my pet ferret.

[@jeffdeucker6504]

​@@MartinPopoff😂😂

[@Cornelius798]

​@@MartinPopoff 🤣🤣🤣👍💯

[@cybersteady]

When the music is so good then the album can never be too long.

[@vinnykster]

Exactly. I love it when an artist or band is on a creative streak. Love prolific songwriters. As long as the craftsmanship and care is put into the tunes, the album can never be too long.

[@kimberlywalker3970]

I'm with you. I feel the same way about songs. Take Led Zeppelin for example. Kashmir, When the Levee Breaks, Fool in the Rain, Stairway to Heaven are songs at least six minutes or longer. I could care less because they're so damn good. Then, you have songs like The Crunge, which is a fraction of the time. However, the three plus minutes are absolutely torture for me. So, if the song or album is good, it's never enough. If it sucks, one second is more than enough!

[@martymartin2894]

Exactly, the reason most long albums get boring is because filler is added which makes them longer. If all songs are great it wouldn't be an issue.

[@vinnykster]

@@kimberlywalker3970 💯 Exactly. That's what I mean. All those classic songs you listed. Master of Puppets the song comes to mind. A great song or album that happens to be extended doesn't feel that way. And just the same s great shorter tune with the right treatment feels like a 10 minute epic. The Beatles were always great at that. Great extended albums, double albums to me are things like Led Zeppelin Physical Graffiti, Pink Floyd The Wall. In the 90's Smashing Pumpkins Melancholy and The infinite Sadness, Red Hot Chili Peppers Stadium Arcadium are long albums I love all the way through and never felt they were too long

[@vinnykster]

@@martymartin2894 So true. And that all stems from bands deciding whethet or not to include the experiments or to put those kinds of tracks aside for another collection. Perfect example: Radiohead did an album called Hail To The Thief. Long album with experiments included. The follow up In Rainbows left off the experimental " filler" tracks off the main release ( I think they had a separate collection with them if I remember correctly) Personally I love both records and don't mind when a band tries new things in front of the fans. But that's me. Other fans might feel different. At the end of the day the artist or band can only do what feels right for themselves because trying to "please the audience" or spoon-feed them is a no win situation because somehow someway somebody always complains 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@lightanddreamsphotography7140]

Steven Wilson has said some interesting things about albums, how he still tends to think in terms of two sides of music, start with a bang, hold attention and build tension, then a strong finish, and repeat on side two...

[@paulbrookes413]

Perfect !!

[@christianman73]

For as long as I've been seriously listening to music (over 40 years), I've loved to listen to *full, complete albums, in their original song order* , as the band/artists choose to release them. On album length, the 30-45 minute running time, of most albums in the '60s, '70s, and '80s, often motivated artists to release their best material in many cases. I can enjoy longer albums though, if the songs justify the length.

[@JohnnyRecently]

Modern Norwegian prog band Wobbler knocks it out of the park. Zero filler. Masterpieces.

[@ChrisNorwood3]

I was trying to calculate the perfect album length based on my favorite albums. Still really difficult to pinpoint due to do different styles of music, but somewhere around 40 minutes is good most of the time.

[@Amptronique]

My shortened Iron Maiden album. The Book Of Souls 1 If Eternity Should Fail 8:28 2 The Red And The Black 13:33 3 The Book Of Souls 10:27 4 Empire Of The Clouds 18:01 The four longest tracks on an album that is too long. The four best tracks, and now the album is about the same length as their early classics.

[@JohnnyRecently]

I've never met anyone who thought early RUSH albums were too short. The thought never occurred to me.

[@stevencuevas3563]

As it is w the greats, time is immaterial

[@gregwatson3300]

I'm old, but to me 20 minutes each side was the standard and felt just about right. I first noticed the shift in the CD era with the Rolling Stones Voodoo Lounge. Lots of good stuff on there, but just too much. It was actually longer than Exile, their double album.

[@jeffkelty6636]

Two great EPs: Bill Nelson "Chimera" (later included on the LP "Vistamix" Gary Myrick (following the demise of Gary Myrick and the Figures) "Language". This was later released as an LP with further tracks. Funny thing about these two EPs, both had five or six songs and every song was killer. Myrick had a minor hit called "Message is You" from this EP. Great program, gentlemen!

[@LeatherRebel75]

Long albums have never really bothered me, so long as the album is full of good music. I really came into music fandom during the early 90's when these long albums started becoming the norm. I just saw it as a bonus that we were getting more music.

[@jimmycampbell78]

Same here

[@johnnyscarecrow71]

Oddly, this episode went on longer than the time length of an average LP. Ha. Fun episode though. Thanks for your work.

[@juliankitts544]

I love short albums. 30-43 minutes is perfect for me.

[@alouetteboy]

Awesome! I actually suggested this topic a while back. Glad you guys did it.

[@bryankafka2952]

The one that I always think of us parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme by Simon and Garfunkle which clocks in at 27:55. Great album but that is short...

[@zoef234]

I love the tedeschi trucks 4 cd release. Too long to listen to on one release. I enjoy the process of changing the cd/flipping the side and starting something new instead of thinking about when the song/album is gonna finish. All about song quality I guess. Fitting an album on a 45 min side of tape has something to do with it??

[@martinkyle1463]

The Move around the time of the Message from the Country LP released strong single tracks that were not repeated on the equally strong album. When they combined them on CD it was fantastic. The case is similar with the sixties albums.

[@quagsiremetalhead1401]

The main issue with long albums is that it made bands add on songs that would have otherwise been left on the cutting room floor. My main issue is that in a 80 minute album, you are likely to get around 30 mins of filler or b sides

[@stevecrescini2081]

Recently, I’ve been listening to 80s metal bands that I missed when they came out (I was listening to generic radio stuff) and have found many to be great albums in the 35 - 40 minute range. One standout (for me) was Fifth Angel (first release) and at 38 minutes, it’s good start to finish. A perfect length

[@jimroyal475]

Being a huge Beatles fan, most of their albums were about 30 minutes with 14 songs on the Uk versions. Every song mattered, no filler. When I listened to other artists, there was filler or subpar songs in some cases on their albums.

[@RickNBacker]

@ Martin -- NWOBHM band Raven had a couple of EP's.

[@timsmith9953]

Re. Re-releases of albums containing "extra bonus tracks": I recently (ie. This year) bought 3 Camel albums on CD re-issue (Mirage, Moonmadness and Rain Dances) each of which has bonus recordings that slmost doubles the length of the album. In each case, these include alternative versions of tracks from that album - I thought this wouldn't work (ie. It would seem odd to listen to a track, then a few minutes later listen to another version of it) but actually I found I liked it - maybe it works ok with this type of music, but wouldn't with others?

[@skroehr]

Something to consider I suppose. I'm not usually very impressed with bonus stuff, and can often see why we didn't get it to begin with. On the other hand, I'm intrigued at the thought of alt Camel tracks. (Dammit). Another purchase coming.

[@bernardmaasdijk734]

As far as the matter of filler is concerned I remember reading in an interview that Ritchie Blackmore spoke of his fondness of No Release - which is on the Difficult to Cure album - stating it was not bad for a filler track. It was by the way. Marillion's Real to Reel was marketed as an EP. Still it contained something like 45 minutes of music. At the time of release (firmly in the vinyl age) in its original 6 tracks form there were no complaints about the sound quality.

[@kevinm5957]

I like my death metal around 30 minutes and my progressive metal around 60

[@gabe2869]

I remember about 20 years ago or so Fleetwood Mac was making a new album and the process was filmed and shown on MTV or vh1 at the time. There was a disconnect in the band because Lindsey Buckingham was suffering over making every song as great as they could possibly make it while Stevie Nicks literally said that they only really needed 2 or 3 good songs and then just fill the album with filler material. That was the first time I've seen an "artist" actually say that. That was basically a documentary of someone with integrity trying to work with someone making a cash grab.

[@FrostedSeagull]

I didnt see Stevie Nicks BUT . . I saw on KZbin a year ago, Keith Richards admit to using the: 2 killer, the rest filler ' practice when doing a new album. A practice that Record Companies vehementliy said did NOT exist. The Rolling Stones has successfully utilised this 2 killer, the rest B grade filler 'approach since Goat's Head Soup. Black and Blue Album The Rolling Stones struggled to put that album together. The final product proves this in spades. A nothing album yet full of critical acclaim. Even Lester Bsngs (obviously paid well) raves about Black and Blue and how the Rolling Stones are back and at their creative best. Complete sh#t !

[@wolf1977]

@@FrostedSeagull Record companies have pushed their artists to get new product on store shelves ASAP (and limit their expensive studio time) for as long as they & recorded music have existed. So anything said to the contrary by them must be taken with a HUGE grain of salt

[@thatdannykelly4503]

Gov't Mule's studio albums were generally about 10-12 songs and 65-75 minutes. Given so many of those songs being mid-tempo sloughs, those 70 minutes began to feel interminable at the 45 minute mark. I gave up after Deja Voodoo in 2004.

[@manuelper]

I think the conversations about "too long" or "too short", etc is mostly happening among those of us that remember living through the era of classic albums. Don't kid yourself, we are no longer in that era. Young people today do not think of music in album format. Anyway, those of us from the album era love the concept of the 'perfect album'; like a quest, if you will. When an album comes out from one of our favorite bands and it just doesn't flow well or there are a few clunkers and the album is already very long with an excessive number of tracks, we think, man, that album could've been so much better if they trimmed this/that or cut out a few of those clunkers. Anyway, I think that's where this feeling about album length comes from. My two cents.

[@wolf1977]

"is mostly happening among those of us that remember living through the era of classic albums" - yes and who lived through the vinyl-only era

[@jimmyagates]

Over 50 minutes becomes a struggle if it's not a classic album. Saxon seem to put out albums that are around the 45 minute mark and that's why I find their recent albums so engaging. Whereas a band like Aerosmith has put 15+ songs on every album they've done since the CD age and as a result most have been padded out with ballads and filler. Totally agree with Pete re these songs that aren't attached to albums they just get lost and no one remembers them.

[@tracerx6324]

As far as I know, there was a band in the late 60s called Asterix (like the comics), which later became Lucifers Friend. My dad has a single called "Everybody", and to be fair, it's a really cool tune.

[@danielwolski873]

It's called 72 Seasons because it will take that long to get through it😂

[@jimmyjambhere]

I’ve always counted EPS as releases and put them in chronological order with that bands albums aka Maiden Japan, Haunting The Chapel, Garage Days

[@michaelivan9066]

Had anyone ever said Reign in Blood is too short or Physical Graffiti is too long ????? All depends on the music.

[@dtltmtgt]

Great point on the synergy of albums, those of us that like to think about those things, great! Let's be honest, the majority don't consume music like this anymore with the extreme accessibility of SO much music all over the place.

[@jimmycampbell78]

I do think people have shorter attention spans and less patience these days. As an example, Iron Maiden release a new album. They are such a big name that music reviewers, both professional and amateur, race to review it and put something online, in print, or in a video on social media. But its a long double album, so it takes time to listen to and digest. Does not matter that its on two discs...the whole thing needs to be consumed and assessed. That p!sses these reviewers and critics off...and it influences the theme of the review. The number of reviewers I saw say the last Maiden album was “too long, could have been edited in spots” usually when they got an early review out, but then if they stuck with it for weeks or months afterward they really enjoyed it. Interesting that this then gets echoed with the new Metallica as well.

[@Baz63]

Many happy returns Martin especially as it is a biggie now you've joined the post 60s clan.

[@adkinstudio]

I think another good topic/video idea could be favorite first and second songs off an album. For example, AC/DC’s Highway To Hell and Girls Got Rhythm.

[@Leo-ci9kc]

I never thought Rush or Van Halen at the time were too short. But i do think some CDs are too long!

[@tylerpatterson4787]

Early Beatles albums can have 10-15 songs and be about 30-35 minutes

[@jamescorbett5729]

Personally I like remastered albums with bonus tracks. If I have just got into an older artist am I really going to get an old album without them? 2-disc deluxe versions that are released later are a bit annoying if you bought the standard version. Another pet hate: buying the physical CD and then seeing album-only bonus tracks on iTunes. Do I buy the whole album again to get them?

[@jimmyjambhere]

There’s very few bonus discs that I replay. The Iron Maiden 1995 castle reissues all have a bonus disc with all the b-sides from the album. I actually listen to those all the time. Also the one bonus disc from Metallica’s Hardwired Deluxe 3cd. Not the live one the one with the unreleased stuff.

[@Arutha_Con_Doin]

For me an ideal album would clock in around the 40 to 45 minute mark. The first 8 Maiden albums were all shorter then 50 minutes and that was just perfect for my taste. They never got to the point where they became a chore to listen to. A good album is the one you love to put on again right away instead of leaving your audience exhausted after one listen. Always leave them wanting more!

[@JosephFrancisBurton]

I think the first album I purchased that I distinctly remember as being 'too long' was Iron Maiden's Powerslave. I had it on LP, and at just over 51 minutes I was surprised that much music could be grooved onto the vinyl. I love the LP, don't get me wrong, but I always thought if The Duelists and Losfer Words would be cut I am not missing much and that leaves a perfectly good 40 minute album!

[@Arutha_Con_Doin]

@@JosephFrancisBurton Yes, Powerslave was a couple minutes longer. But what made that album still enjoyable for me was the epic closer. I always loved the b-side of that record. With "Back in the village", the title track and "Rime..." i played it over and over. But i will agree that "The Duellists" is kinda expendable. It's probably the song i skipped the most on Powerslave. Take away those 6 minutes and you have 45 minutes of pure joy.

[@JosephFrancisBurton]

@@Arutha_Con_Doin - 100%% agree with you - side 2 is absolute progressive metal perfection. I have heard a lot of reviewers give Back in the Village a bad rap, and for the life of me I don't understand why - it is incredible. Rime of the Ancient Mariner is just glorious, but the title track is pure masterpiece - one of the best songs the band ever recorded - it is better than any lame Mummy movie. Damn, I have not heard the album in ages, I am going to go listen to it now! LOL

[@chaddunn9621]

I agree that some albums now are too long. Journey Freedom comes to mind for a simple. But I think its just where we are in the world today. Where has we get older just don't feel like having the time to listen to a 70 minute album. When we were younger most albums were 45 minutes long. Its a great discussion to have.

[@gabriellarrubia1006]

I was jamming Dokken's Back for the Attack about a week ago and that to me is an example of a perfect album and a half... I can rank the songs easily but ultimately I'd keep them all. Pacing/Variety/Performances keep it in line. Def Leppard's Hysteria might be its evil opposite twin because the guitar performance is so underwhelming that there's less reward and the cringe of several songs makes the added length torturous. I relistened to the Accept discography this week because of the UK connection show and I was pleasantly surprised by Death Row- which was bashed down in the comments. Granted, Predator sucked but Death Row had me hooked start to finish (guitar clinic from Wolf, great mix, nice groove and pacing). I also stopped procrastinating and caught up on newer releases. Turns out I was missing out on Blind Rage and Too Mean To Die. Blood of the Nations is great but kind of fatiguing, which goes perfectly with today's topic. Stalingrad was kind of ok but not as captivating and Rise of Chaos better paced but less impressive. It's unfortunate I didn't check out Blind Rage and Too Mean To Die immediately because I assumed they would be too similar...

[@kevinpeterson6468]

Magical mystery tour is a double ep.

[@Justin_Kipper]

Originally released on two 45rpm discs...so that it would sound better than a single 33.3rpm disc.

[@RickNBacker]

Transatlantic and The Flower Kings are exceptions where I don't mind how long the albums are.

[@tedswedalla5422]

What about the fact that during the 70s bands were expected to release an album every year? Tool - 26 years, 5 records. Jethro Tull - 26 years, 19 records.

[@gabriellarrubia1006]

May have kept them in tip-top songwriting shape and built more legacy because of it... You can also see the band's evolution little by little. Newer bands often seem drastically different between two releases because we didn't get those albums in between...

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Cocaine is a helluva drug, and the whole music industry was skiing on mountains of fine powder in the 70's.

[@paulbrookes413]

​@@ryanjacobson2508 More like PURE TALENT!!

[@caramanico1]

A song or an album should be as long as it should be. How is that determined? By each individual person and individual song/album.

[@bertwilbrink2679]

For me the perfect album is aenema by Tool. Long album with very intense songs, but inbetween these fillers where you can relax and embrace yourself for the next song.

[@davedagreat69]

Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime was such a long single disk vinyl album that as the last words are uttered 'I remember now' the needle used to lift off the record immediately. Perfect length album though.

[@paddy3622]

maiden albums are way too long. i want piece of mind tunes. good melodies and 4 to 5 minute masterpieces.

[@scottricci5063]

The exponential aggregate of synergistic fodder indeed!

[@gabriellarrubia1006]

Yeah I've liked several of their albums from the last 20 years but they forgot just how good they were at writing four minute songs in the beginning

[@josephteixeira8481]

So true...Maiden and Metallica both suffer from this. Need an editor...is it ego or a desire to give fans their money's worth? I would rather pay for a tight solid 40-45 minute collection of the best tracks you have recorded rather than what starts to feel like one, long plodding song. Other older thrash bands like Overkill and Testament have figured this out....and Clutch, like Pete said.

[@JohnMacRae23]

To the point of the album concept being or becoming dead... it's obviously a less important medium than it was, but I don't think it will happen. It's think it's too ingrained as an art form, and I see more and more young kids who are real music fans love and pontificate on the format. Just look here on other music channels... search favorite albums, album hauls, ranking albums, etc... a lot of younger fans turn up which is heartening.

[@alexjohnston8889]

What about Tails of the topographic oceans by Yes, is that too long, ask Rick Wakeman, he always said it was a good job I drank in those days as it was the only way I could get through the whole of that album, I like it, sure maybe they could have cut a bit off, if it was only one disc I wouldn't have minded but I still don't mind the way it is.

[@markkaminski4496]

Rainbow Rising just 33 mins, admittenly all 6 songs are fantastic, but maybe another track , most bands have a track or 2 left over could have gone on it, but a masterpiece no the less.

[@ilj1259]

"The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" by Genesis is a perfect example of long album that doesn't wear out it's welcome. It is a prog classic that tells an epic story that could not be edited... While other bands were making long albums just to utilize the amount of time a cd could hold.

[@jasoneubank514]

Def Leppard's Hysteria was (62:32) Guns 'N' Roses Use Your Illusion I (76:09) Guns 'N" Roses Use Your Illusion II (75:55) Great White Once Bitten has 8 song (47 minutes) Great White Twice Shy 9 songs (49 minutes) Skid Row All Gang's All Here 10 songs (41 minutes)

[@aldebaran4154]

The strange thing about today's music buying is it's really gone back in time to the 1940s and 1950s, when singles were everything and they were just about to create the EP and LP. You would look for that one single by Patti Page that you wanted, let's say Tennessee Waltz, and ignore all her other recordings. The autonomy that was so hard fought for by, at first, Buddy Holly then the1960s and 1970s artists are gone and the labels, and now streaming services, again control most of the music.

[@aaronsteelman4732]

The only band I can immediately think of that I wish had consistently included tracks on the original albums that were released later on deluxe editions is Tull.

[@Canuck1000]

It is my understanding that EPs are 3 to 4 songs (e.g., Slayer's Haunting the Chapel) and mini-LPs include 5 to 6 songs (e.g., Destruction, Helloween, Celtic Frost and Sodom debuts). Often EPs/mini-LPs are put out to keep the the fans interested between LPs (when they released far distance apart). However, in many cases, it is a marketing ploy to make more money. The same thing with re-release of LPs with bonus songs.

[@bobsala7780]

And you guys didn’t even mention grindcore or power violence in the discussion. I’m a big fan of the band Nails and their “full length” albums are like 18 minutes long.

[@969thewhip]

Since this started off talking about Metallica, in 2011 they released the Beyond Magnetic EP which is 4 songs that were recorded for Death Magnetic but didn't make the cut.

[@youtoo2233]

A few of those early Van Halen albums were really short, barely 30 minutes

[@claymccoy]

A great album can never be too long and a bad album can never be too short...

[@stewy62]

Most older viewers like myself were conditioned by the constraints of vinyl into albums being 40 minutes, give or take. In those days there were very few double studio albums (although some great double live ones). Effectively most new releases today would have been double albums in vinyl days so it shouldn’t be a surprise that quality on these longer releases is difficult to maintain 🇬🇧

[@matthewclark9652]

Cracker "Kerosene Hat" (1994) had some breaks in silence on the CD!!! Same for "Gentleman's Blues" CD!!

[@Songwritersbehindthecurtain]

Numbers plus Song title equals 🟰 Chapters Lyrics equals Details. In my opinion the number is a chapter which means a main division of a book, typically with a number or title while the song title is a song title more of chapter 1 leaning towards book 📕 📖 📚. For me as a listener studio album 💿 and book 📖 📕 are the same. Because both books and studio albums have a song title and a number right next to it which is book 📕 📖 📚 and chapter. It dosen't matter how you say it if an album total = duration is about 29:25 and it has about 10 chapters it would considered a mini book I e but an album that has 8 chapters and the total = duration is about 49:37 it would consider as a full book to me it dosen't matter how long or short the albums are but in my preference albums are book 📕 📖 📚.

[@domielakrabi3276]

I actually don't care about too short albums - just push repeat or turn the record to side A again 😎 An album definitely too long is Clash's Sandinista! A 2 LP set would've be perfect. Great show again guys!!!

[@martinkyle1463]

I'm not a fan of either band, but remember hearing that The Jam released a 12" single that was longer than a Duran Duran album from around the same time.

[@paulfaulkner2855]

Good points on BTBAM EPs and double albums, but I don't mind with them bc I love it all. However, I like most albums to be between 35-45 min. Especially if its death or black metal, I get bored if they're longer than that.

[@Primordilian]

I should say at the start that I really don't like short albums, but in some rare cases, it matters how good even the little that was put on the album is, because there are cases where a short album is almost without a weak song on it.And in the end, the most important thing is how good the material is, regardless of how long or short the album is. And in a situation where it's short but good, we say it's a shame that they didn't include another song, and if it's not really good, it's okay that it's not longer, because it would be maybe even more weak songs. So maybe all this is a gray zone and not a black and white one.

[@harrynewiss4630]

Too long: Genesis: Duke, And then there were three (I listen to edited versions of the two), Other artists: almost anything after the 1990s when CDs came in Too short (albeit still great): Rainbow: Rising PFM: first two albums

[@colinrgage]

I can think of a tonne of classic albums that are 8-10 songs quality over quantity imo, Another great topic lads

[@atlasking6110]

My vote for best EP of all time is Black Market Clash. Technically called "NuDiscs" for a brief second at that time, but it's an EP.

[@skroehr]

The correct length for an album, for those of us who grew up with records is 35 - 45 minutes. I think that's ingrained in my DNA. When the CD era evolved, and you could put up to 80 minutes, it messed up music quality in some ways. Artists naturally feel like they should provide more material. In most cases, to my ears, they shouldn't. There was a discipline in picking out the best 45 minutes of material from an accumulated period of writing was an artistic craft in and of itself. Given that even in the golden age of albums some artists still had "filler" even with the 45 minute time constraints, those same acts now would be putting out an extra album worth of filler in some cases since albums run a little over an hour these days. You milage may vary, but I like album length albums of the best songs a band has to offer at any given snapshot in time.