Alcohol Washes: Why you should Stop Doing them!//Do this instead//Control Varroa, don't kill bees!

CORRECTION: Phoretic Mites are those that are vulnerable to OAV treatments. In this video I got that backwards, stating the opposite as true. My thanks to those who let me know ;)
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Alcohol washes have become "the thing to do" simply as in introduction to beekeeping. This video shows you why it's unnecessary and what you should be doing instead...and no bees die!

[@richardburroughs2677]

Ad a veterinarian I seek the most accurate diagnostic technique. The alcohol wash has been demonstrated to yield superior accuracy. This is critical to evaluate the risk of normal mite proliferation over the course of them summer. A low mite count from and inferior test can be fatal to a colony needing treatment. Further, mites do not adapt to treatment, but rather develop immunity. Over treatment or inappropriate treatment eventually renders chemicals ineffective The one exception may be Oxalic Acid which physically damages mites thus bypassing genetic changes rendering them resistant. Just consider the loss of your once wonder drug antibiotics from misuse. And above all, read and follow the labels to avoid killing hives of bees and contaminating hive products

[@thehivedoctor13]

Great advice ;)

[@halfasshuntingclub5330]

I’ve been a beekeeper long enough to know if you ask 5 beeks a question, you will get 7 different answers. We started using your technique of a medium frame and scraping off the drone comb. That and breaking up the brood cycles.

[@thehivedoctor13]

You're right about that! That's great about the Varroa Control Frames!

[@Zuconja]

I do alcohol wash after treatment, it tells me if it worked. Loss of 300 bees per colony is insignificant. I perform alcohol wash on 2-3 colonies, not on every single colony in the apiary.

[@thehivedoctor13]

Thanks for being up front about it. I am curious, do you do alcohol washes after differing methods of mite control, perhaps to see if one is more effective than the others?

[@Zuconja]

@@thehivedoctor13 Yes. Every treatment is effective so far, a long as you rotate treatments. I never use same treatments in a year and the next year I use different treatments than the year before. First treatment in August, second in September and third and only treatment that I repeat every year is oxalic acid sublimation, two times in winter, but I don't do alcohol wash after it because I don't open my hives in winter, so I can only guess it worked, I can't really know. I have to know if the first two treatments worked, because one of them could simply one day do nothing (resistance, faulty bach). Before alcohol wash was a thing, I used to count mite drop until one day I got myself wondering if so many mites dropped, how many are still on the bees? This much or maybe a few? Alcohol wash removes that enigma. After starting to rotate treatments and do alcohol washes, I stopped loosing bees to Varroa.

[@Zuconja]

@@thehivedoctor13 Yes, after any kind of treatment method except after oxalic acid sublimation which I perform in winter and I don't open my hives in winter. Mite drop for me is irrelevant, only thing that is important for me is how many mites are still there on the bees? Counting dead mites can't tell me that and I did a lot of counting. I have lost at least 100 colonies to varroa in 12 years of beekeeping, simply because I assumed that the treatment worked, mite drop said it worked. In the past four years, with combining different treatments and checking with alcohol wash, I don't loose bees.

[@thehivedoctor13]

@Zuconja Okay cool! I totally get what you’re saying. Thank you for your response 🐝🐝

[@HenrikLarssonArt]

Nice to hear that someone else don't use alcohol wash on their bees. I prefer to remove drone combs in the spring, and use formic acid late August and oxalic acid late November or early December, when there is no capped brood cells in the hive.

[@thehivedoctor13]

That sounds very thorough and great timing. Well thought out!🐝🐝

[@beebob1279]

I find formic acid to be hard on my colonies. The temperature has to be just right. But very affective in killing mites (and sometimes queens)

[@mmb_MeAndMyBees]

Hi there. Your 'Channel' popped up in YT suggested viewing. 😏 I don't do Alcohol Washes either. Why kill x300 innocent Bees to ID those Varroa Mites. I do 'Varroa Board Inserts' in the bottom of the Hives. Insert a nice and clean one. Leave for a few Days. Pull out carefully. Then 'see whats doing' with the dropped Hive debris. Then do repeat approved Varroa Mite Treatments. Ideally several different one's through out the Bee Season. Oxalic Acid, Thymol, Sugar Shakes, Queen Capture (Caged Frame) Brood 'removal'. Using Drone Comb Green Frame Foundation. And of course Splits, also doing Queen replacement. And 'capturing' a Swarm (natural Brood break) but Varroa Mites will be there to infect that new Hive Home, so treat them too. 🤭 Do several of the above on a regular basis. Be aware certain Varro Mite treatments are deemed to be Calender crucial. Do Thymol when it's warm. Do Splits when Drones are around. Do any Hive Re-Queening way before Bees of Winter Physiology are born and raised. Understand the proccess, the action done and effects that might be 'altered' if done not at the correct time. Hope this helps. 😎 Love the Wood and Lavender Painted Roofs. Would look neat amongst the Heather, here in Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Ps. Why do you have what looks like top venting 'holes' in those Roof Rims or under Shim. Many think venting at the top, is 'not at all beneficial' to Hives generally, or in colder regions. I always over Insulate to Top of a Hive (under the Roof) to keep 'Warmth' in and maybe you get extreme 'Heat' say in baking hot USA Summers etc. So yes a big block of Foil Foam will keep that Hive lovely and cool too. Bees mainly close up holes and gaps with Propolis anyway. 🙄 Get x3 Inch Insulated-Foiled Foam Board (free off cuts) from Home Builder firms. 👍 Or in my Horizontal Hive, I've lots of Sheep's Wool. Scotland has lots of Sheep 🐑 about the place. Most Farmers give away (eg a 'dirty' wool) aka the stuff thats all matted up, is to fibrous for Wool Yarn making. Some sheep are 'Meat' bred over Fleece, so their wirey wool stuff gets trashed too (?) Still has insulation properties though. 😏 Glad I got a YT. . . Heres one you might like ! Cheers. 😎

[@thehivedoctor13]

Hello Scotland! It sounds like you employ many methods of mite management. Love it! Thank you for sharing them. And thank you, I chose my lavender hive cover color because it's the complimentary color to my yellow/gold boxes. And no, there are no vent holes in the hive covers. There used to be feeder holes in the top for a jar but I'm slowly moving those covers out of my operation because I just designed a bottom board that allows a better way to feed my bees. I do have a quilting box on top of my deep hive bodies. It is full of cedar chips to maintain colony warmth but also allow moisture to escape.

[@captbriansbees]

I’m starting to hear that 1 mite is too many because 1 mite will quickly load up a hive. Mike Palmer from Vermont is on board with this philosophy. What’s your take?

[@user-wo6fe6de3i]

I treat with oxalic acid every other week in the spring for three treatments, and again in the fall with the supers off. Just what I found works for me in the north east climate. Alcohol washing is cruel and 100% not necessary, better ways are available, I don't even check for mites, I just assume I have them and treat as if my bee's have them, because I assume they do. One thing I do after each treatment, the following day I slide out the bottom boards of my hives and give them a quick peak for mites that died and dropped, with each treatment I see less and less, and by the 3rd treatment I normally don't see much of anything to report home on.

[@thehivedoctor13]

Yes!! That’s exactly how I operate and it works just fine! Cool 😎

[@mtangeouko7425]

A true lover of bees, keep it up

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

Unless you run mite washes how do you decide which queens to graft from?

[@thehivedoctor13]

I use several different non-lethal methods to determine mite loads. 🐝. They’re methods that learned from my mentor before I had ever heard of alcohol washes and so I continued them in my own practice.

[@dawndominick2833]

Good vid but the phoretic mites are the ones on the loose, NOT the ones under the caps with the brood.

[@thehivedoctor13]

Hmmm, thanks for the correction on that. Should've looked up the definition before making this video! ;)

[@beebob1279]

Yes you should have. To experienced beekeepers it makes you look bad. I commented the same thing. I thought maybe it was a slip of the tongue.

[@hancockhale]

I do in fact live on an island where are trying to control the situation while we can. I agree with everything you said although to know the preventative measures are working for my individual hives I do feel it may be necessary to do the washes to gauge the count and effectiveness. At least within the first year or two. My thoughts at least

[@thehivedoctor13]

Ha! That's funny that you're actually on an island! Where are you located? What kind of honey do you produce?

[@bradgoliphant]

This was so well said, and such a valid and great point. Grateful.

[@thehivedoctor13]

Thank you, I appreciate your feedback my fellow keeper.

[@bradgoliphant]

@@thehivedoctor13 I have never, in all my 17 years, done alcohol washes. I find it cruel as well. But your points about prioritizing pest management was key

[@mckeeshoneybees8351]

Great video but I also agree with a couple other comments that you need to test before and after to make sure treatments are working. I’ve seen a treatment knock down mite load and a couple weeks later it was back up to original load of mites possibly from robbing or whatever. If you don’t know what results are from treating, you can’t get better at managing. Thanks again

[@thehivedoctor13]

It's true! We definitely need to know that our treatment methods are working. I realize that for treatment methods to be available on the market that they had to have been tested and effective to some degree. I think it's a matter of finding the ones that work best, even if that means implementing several different methods for overall mite kill.

[@calbritt785]

Thanks for this video I agree with you 100 very knowledgeable video. And looking for to put it in practice. Thanks again

[@thehivedoctor13]

Thank you! And btw, I got the definition of “phoretic” backwards😅. I hope you great success with your bees and appreciate your input into my channel!🐝🐝

[@zulikkowalski3547]

Thank you for saying it. Regular OA vapes and The screened bottom board tells me everything I need to know.

[@thehivedoctor13]

Hey no problem! I really like that honey bees naturally groom Varroa off of themselves and the little buggers can fall through the bottom board screens. :)

[@beebob1279]

Don’t rely solely on screened bottom board to lower mites. It’s found that screened bottom boards alone have nearly zero affect on lowering mite loads

[@JeffLatta-km9uu]

You stated that you do 6 treatments in the spring before the honey flow and then again in the summer. Are those treatments once weekly for a total of 6 treatments with oxalic acid. I am a new bee keeper and I did the alcohol wash and I didn't like killing my bees.

[@thehivedoctor13]

Hey, great question! So I do the treatment once every 3-4 days as the weather allows for a total of 6 times. :)

[@reindeersbees]

I think that testing is very important, maybe not on every colony but on some the colonies in an apiary. I know I always have mites but I need to know to what extent I have them. Killing 300 bees is certainly not fun but during the summer that would only .5-4% of the total hive’s population. If I test low numbers I come back later to reassess, this saves them stress from many treatments. The testing post treatment is key as well to make sure the treatments worked. I think screen bottom boards could be a substitute for mite washes if you have a way to quantify them.

[@thehivedoctor13]

I agree, it's definitely an important thing to know if our treatments are effective or not. I have always assumed that if something is available on the market that it's already been through testing before being released to the industry for consumer use. No doubt that they are all effective but perhaps some more than others. Have you found a treatment more effective, testing afterwards with an alcohol wash?

[@reindeersbees]

@@thehivedoctor13 Most treatments currently on the market have some level of effectiveness but they are not all equal. Each treatment is different and can be more or less effective dependent on a variety of factors. I have found formic acid to be far more effective (except last year) than oxalic acid, even when I had broodless hives.

[@thehivedoctor13]

@reindeersbees I understand. Do you know why the formic acid wasn’t as effective as usual?

[@reindeersbees]

@@thehivedoctor13 I have two theories, 1. It was incredibly humid all summer which I have heard can decrease its effectiveness or 2. The current amount is not as effective anymore( my state inspector said that NOD going to increase the dose of formic acid).

[@beebob1279]

It’s hard on colonies but I use formic if the mites got away from me in numbers. Often from ineffective mite products that no longer work. That’s why mite counts are important

[@paulschaefer5241]

The biggest error I see with this practice is that it makes two erroneous assumptions. 1. that no one bee ever has more then one mite. In fact one bee could host as many as twenty mites. 2. that the mites are distributed more or less evenly throughout the colony and that they prefer nurse bees. recent research shows they actually prefer drone bees. this might explain why graan drone comb works so well as a mite control.

[@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping]

Treating without measurement is not a scientifically sound process. What is measured is managed and improved upon. If you do not test before treatment you do not know where you are at mite wise, and then if you do not test after treatment you have no idea if the treatment worked. If the treatment didn't work that will indicate if you need to try a different method of treatment. Yes, you will always have mites, but that is not the point of testing. The point of testing is baselining and post-test efficacy. Also testing and NOT treating is essential if you are using treatments such as Apivar so as not to allow tolerance buildup if they are below treatment thresholds, just as you should not throw antibiotics at every sniffle. A queen lays 1200+ eggs a day, 300 bees is an insignificant amount of bees compared to the worth of knowing your mite loads and the efficacy of your treatments. Ineffective mite treatments will kill countless times more bees than sacrificing less than 1/4 of a days worth of bees.

[@thehivedoctor13]

I like to measure the effectiveness of my treatments through mite drop before and after OAV treatments using the pull-out board. Rather than a wash, I get a visual count without loss. You're totally right, it's important to measure effectiveness, I just think there are ways of doing it with less or minimal loss. What area do you keep bees at?

[@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping]

@@thehivedoctor13 Panama City Florida.... AKA Lower Alabama.

[@thehivedoctor13]

@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping Very nice. Those areas produce some very unique honey varieties in my opinion. 🐝🐝

[@keithsteele5580]

I'm with you 100 percent, but everyone still want to do alcohol washing,so sad they don't learn.

[@thehivedoctor13]

I hear you. It gives them something to do and makes it feel productive I suppose.

[@toddknecht2106]

I assume always that I have mites, however I don’t assume my mite treatments worked which is why I prefer to do a mite wash using ultra dawn and water

[@thehivedoctor13]

I can certainly understand wanting to know if your mite treatment method worked or not. I have always held the understanding that for a treatment method to be available on the market that it's already been tested and found effective to some degree or another. Tell me, have you experimented with several differing treatment methods and then done an alcohol wash to find which method works best?

[@toddknecht2106]

@@thehivedoctor13 yes, I’m in Northeast Pa. I use apivar strips mid February to the end of April also November to mid December. I also use Formic pro in late June and again mid august. Generally my mite tests are 1-2 in October. For me to say one works better then another I haven’t tested per treatment. I do appreciate your knowledge and videos!

[@thehivedoctor13]

@toddknecht2106 Okay cool! I think changing it up like you do is more effective than using one type of treatment only. Nice! And thank you 🐝🐝

[@beebob1279]

Apivar still works for you? I’m in southeast Pennsylvania and that stopped working several years ago for me. I had to re-treat with something else. This is why mite counts are so important. The bee companies will sell you anything even if it no longer works.

[@danplatt861]

My wife and I are 100% in agreement with you! We won't sacrifice 300 bees to know the mite load per 100, we can get a pretty good feel from the IPM tray below our screen bottom board through frequent observation. Blasting them with OAV always confirms our assumption. After hitting them with OAV, we count the mite drop in the lightly oiled tray every 24 hrs (using a clean tray each day) for 5 days in a row to determine if the load is suppressed to a manageable level.

[@thehivedoctor13]

I could not agree more! There are so many other ways to determine mite load without the loss of bees due to an alcohol wash. The tray method is probably the easiest I can think of, before AND after an OAV treatment. Nicely done!

[@01murk10]

Great! 👍 I never had the heart to just kill 300 bees 🐝, so instead I just treat them once is spring and again in fall.

[@thehivedoctor13]

Same!!

[@leehillard2841]

Agreed 100 percent, thanks

[@thehivedoctor13]

You're very welcome! And thank you too

[@davidsoloninka7742]

Do u have a video of oxalic acid treatment?

[@thehivedoctor13]

I do! There are two: one for wand-style and another for the nozzle style OAV’s.

[@thehivedoctor13]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3aaiYNoqbx4fdksi=lYvUIEkNdXBeiyfo

[@thehivedoctor13]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/epa6h6Npn5J6is0si=JHoRJ9eMK2EaAXE4

[@jedw9496]

I was able to do a powdered suger wash and not kill the bees. Yeah and I treated for mites afterwards.

[@thehivedoctor13]

Nicely done!!

[@chrisbeck2197]

It has been proven that powered sugar still kills the bees. it just takes longer and you don't see it happen!

[@user-wo6fe6de3i]

Preach it brother! 🙏

[@thehivedoctor13]

😂😂

[@JoesphEKerr]

Agreed!

[@thehivedoctor13]

Sweet 😎🐝🐝

[@bradgoliphant]

Stop the alcohol washes! Stop the madness.

[@thehivedoctor13]

Haha! Yes indeed my friend!

[@beebob1279]

Your comment about phoretic mites is incorrect. Phoretic mites are those outside the capped cells and not those under them. I find it hard to believe you have watched mites run away from treatments. Monitoring mite loads is important. If killing 300 bees will destroy your colony then you have bigger problems. Other ways to monitor mite loads exist. Sugar shakes instead of alcohol washes work well. So does counting mites on capped drones. Open up the cell and pull out the pupae. Look for and count the mites. But never assume since you have a regiment that you are maintaining low mite loads.

[@thehivedoctor13]

Hey Bee Bob, I now know my vocab mistake, thanks! ;) And it may be difficult to believe but the first time using ApiVar I saw mites running out of the hive entrance. I definitely don't assume that my OAV treatment results in low mite loads. I see dead mites on my catch boards that are located underneath my screened bottom board. Thanks for engaging!!

[@donaldhickman3556]

I agree , treat 3 times annually, use a different treatment each time. Feed them in a drought, flooding rain , freezing weather when nature is not providing. This will solve most of our bee problems.

[@beebob1279]

If you have to feed during the lack of nectar then you’re as guilty of bee cruelty as the alcohol wash. You removed too much honey and didn’t leave enough. So you feed the bees syrup? Leave some for the bees

[@noureddinemekdad6705]

From Algeria😍😍

[@montyhp]

Just bad information. Find a different Beekeeping mentor.

[@65smallguy]

Just non-sense ... if your not testing before and after treatment you have no idea if treatment was effective.

[@thehivedoctor13]

It's important to realize that any kind of treatment on the market available was thought of and tested first before being released into the industry. The fact that it's available means that it's effective to some degree. ;)