Alex Jones Lover Wants to Convert Us All to Libertarianism

An Alex Jones fan and Infowars listener calls in to debate Libertarianism…
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[@jimvacuum]

I'll believe corporations are people when I see a corporation that is sitting in a prison cell.

[@rambi1072]

I would settle for just the upper management of the corporations in prison

[@PR--un4ub]

@@rambi1072 How about a corporation swinging from the gallows?

[@firstlast9916]

@@rambi1072 how “upper” is upper management? Are assistant managers “upper management”? Assistant restaurant managers make around $20 per hour. Are they also the enemy of the people?

[@rambi1072]

​@@firstlast9916 No I don't think assistant restaurant managers are enemies of the people just for being an assistant restaurant manager, you dolt. I am saying that if a corporation has acted against the interests of the public (say, by polluting the environment) and a crime has been broken, then upper management should be taken to court and prosecuted for making the decision to break that law. The reason I think this is fines can sometimes be written off as "the cost of business" where as if management knew they personally have to face justice they might reconsider breaking the law. One example of where I think this should have been done is with HSBC's laundering of money for the Mexican cartel. So HSBC's upper management probably are "enemies of the people," but an assistant restaurant manager almost certainly is not unless they have specifically been involved in something similar. (I believe some of the individuals responsible did face sentencing as a result of the HSBC money laundering scandal, but these sentences always end up being extremely lenient.)

[@rambi1072]

@@firstlast9916 I agree that pretty much all drugs should be legal actually, and the cartels aren't bad because they sell drugs they're bad because they murder thousands of people every year. And yes these things are ultimately consequences of governments' policies on drugs but that still doesn't mean laundering the money of mass murderers is okay

[@stratecaster547]

"I'm okay with society being trampled and abused by multi-national corporations as long as it's not the government." - libertarians

[@oneman5753]

While not acknowledging that those corporations will, in effect if not in actual name, form a government. Government is nothing but a monopoly on use of force which allows that group to set “the rules”. I do not get why these people avoid that clear reality. Do they really just think everyone is nice? The second someone with a narcissism complex feels they have the ability to take over an adjacent area they will, and there are ALLOT of people who feel they are better suited to make decisions for everyone then anyone else. Tons of ‘em. In that sense, government is actually a standing protection from war lords and little trumps. We just have to make it work for all of us, not just the few with resources. I say “just” but clearly that’s a VERY tall, tough order

[@jojocosmodelic431]

*"I'm ok with the choice for people to associate with multi-national corporations and the choice not to associate with multinational corporations." Libertarians

[@punishedbarca761]

@@jojocosmodelic431 start a tech business in the the third world, it's the dystopian reality of libertarianism.

[@jojocosmodelic431]

@Marco if you think sweatshop or starve is the only option in a libertarian society, you probably would be better off in a communist society... being the weakest link n all. I've worked in sweatshops for a brief bit to make some easy money while looking for a better job, but most of those jobs will be replaced by ai in the 4th industrial revolution anyways. Cronyism is the real enemy, not capitalism.

[@jojocosmodelic431]

@Marco what has history proved and how?

[@TBTabby]

Taxation is not theft. It is payment for services rendered. When you choose to live in America and reap the benefits of being an American citizen, you are consenting to American rule of law, which says that you must pay taxes. If you don't like it, go Galt already.

[@damonficken3457]

+Benjamin S you are volunteering to pay them by living in this country. You are making a choice to do that. If you don't agree with the taxes and policies of our government then you have the option to leave. But until then you are choosing to abide by the rules of law that we as a society have established in order to promote the general welfare of the whole over the individual. We've established a payment system that everyone participates in and benefits from. That's the way the world works, buddy.

[@dalepeto9620]

+Benjamin S If you don't like paying taxes you can move to Russia, Mexico or Somalia, Bon Voyage.

[@MrApplewine]

It is theft if it is used to make one person work without pay so another person can get paid without working. If it is used for the protection of rights of all people that is a little different and even then it should be voluntary once that transition is possible. That is how Capitalism works, the government banishes aggression from society. These concerns about people starving or dying or whatever are not realistic because under Capitalism there are very few people who will find themselves in that situation and there will be much more wealth for charity. It is only under communism and socialism like Sam advocates where charity would not be able to meet these needs, but that is his system, not Capitalism.

[@Lukeor]

Just like getting mugged and robbed is rendering payment for the service of being mugged.

[@TBTabby]

You compare government services to a mugging? How is a public library like a mugging? A public park? A clean road? Clean water?

[@Titanvol91]

It's hilarious that every Libertarian that calls in prefaces their call with "the previous Libertarian that called in doesn't represent us properly" lol

[@Darkersneasel]

Then they continue to spout the same shit as the previous libertarian when pressed on issues. I've been going down this rabbit hole for a few days watching all these libertarian videos and they're almost formulaic at this point. xD

[@robinsss]

@@Darkersneasel ancaps have created a lot of confusion but at some point in history the first political group to have the name libertarian attached to them was in favor of abolishing the gov't or against it that group is the original libertarian group once you research it the first political group called libertarians wanted to keep the gov't

[@nosuchthing8]

​@@Darkersneasel well said

[@brettabernathy6560]

man sam just shreds these people it is crazy, glad i found this channel

[@PrOBOY251]

I'm a die-hard ocialist. The more I watch Sam, the more he moves me away from socialism.....

[@Ramiromasters]

Society its like an orchestra, you just can't be a solo violin playing a whole symphony. So, you can't get 90% of the credit and say that the other guys just deserve 10%.

[@dreaminginnoother]

every libertarian thinks this is the case though. I find a common mindset from right leaning people is that they have done everything themselves and they deserve all the credit and everyone else should strive to be as hardworking and persevering as them. I find it hard to combat this mindset without questioning their actual independent value, but I don't want to devolve to insults.

[@Ramiromasters]

Yes and it all comes from the dangerous Adam Smith philosophy of the invisible hand and the self interest not social interest mentality. Adam Smith barely knew society living in an agrarian world, where people sure where more self reliant but that isn't to say much as the living standard and the life expectancy where much lower than us today, even on these conditions... Many people think they stop being part of society or depending on it if they get a job where they can pay their own bills... How small minded these people can be...?

[@philpottkentucky4802]

If you look at 0:10, you can see Sam's eyes light up like a shark that just spotted a kill.

[@yarnpower]

Wow, I have listened to so many of these libertarian callers and they all sound selfish and callous. Really horrible morals!

[@wvu05]

"So, we're going by your morals?" Pause. "Well, yes..." Beautiful job, Sam!

[@ChannelRandomMy]

7:10 Sam told him, before he said it, what his argument was, answered the presupposed arguement, and asked for the caller's opinion, and the best part was that the caller didn't rebutt what Sam said, he moved on to the question after Sam told him his own arguement. *Golf clap* just amazing.

[@Darkersneasel]

It's funny because many libertarians think they're nuanced in their beliefs. It's so formulaic. They don't think any of the other libertarians are true libertarians but then when thrown into the crucible, resort back to the same talking philosophical talking points that the libertarian movement has. It's very rare for them to actually make a good point that is hard to refute.

[@brettabernathy6560]

i have been confused by some libertarians i see what i got wrong i agree with some of their social stances but hated their economic arguments and now i understand better thanks to this guy thanks sam

[@nosuchthing8]

One of the few bright spots on the web. Thank you Mr. Seder for your show and your most eloquent efforts. I am not religious but if I was, it would be to praise your brilliant show. And, btw, collapsing planet kolob and libertarianism together is too amusing.

[@whramijg]

I love when callers valiantly tell Sam on which discrete points they agree with him. Wow. Sam's lucky day.😊

[@wrenaevillard5266]

I love you Sam! All these old shows are coming up on my feed and I think it’s because I sought out every video I could find that showed and analyzed what happened when crowder was tricked into making eye contact with you for a few moments 🤣. It just occurred to me that Michael may have had something to do with that glorious event that has been boosting your sub numbers.

[@coletrickle1775]

What a fucking nightmare!!!

[@Tamer_108]

What is Seder's adherence by the way? Which economic or political ideology, or intellectual etc?

[@SteveGellerMusic]

Tamer Sadek Sam is a fairly typical American Progressive. There isn't monolothic agreement among Progressives on everything, but on enough things that the category has defined dimensions and Sam usually falls into it.

[@stratecaster547]

Finally someone addresses the profoundly unequal power dynamic, the fundamental flaw of the libertarian "voluntary contract" argument.

[@Alex-0597]

This guy's solution to low wages is basically to call a general strike and demand higher pay across the board. I wonder how supportive he is of general strikes if you ask him upfront about them?

[@ShaynaLynn]

Religion is a very appropriate term. Libertarianism is a faith-based belief system. There's damn sure no demonstrable, empirical proof it works.

[@Darkersneasel]

The only thing separating it from it being a religion is there is no deity....oh wait they think corporations are deities....

[@NumeroSystem]

Taxation isn't a use of force. Money is a service the Federal Reserve offers to you with the stipulation that you will give a percentage of each transaction back to them. No one is forcing you to use Federal Reserve Notes to account for your transactions.

[@kathykelly5930]

***** Yes it is and even George Washington and Obama and Seder have acknowledged that. You have to pay the gov't your taxes in Federal Reserve notes, even if you just trade in gold, you'd have to convert some of that to Federal Reserve Notes to pay taxes.

[@modelmajorpita]

kathy kelly So don't pay taxes! You sign contracts agreeing to do so, the government is just enforcing contracts. No one is forcing you to do so.

[@kathykelly5930]

modelmajorpita what contracts did I sign agreeing to it? Contracts that were forced to include taxes maybe? Did you not hear Sam admitted that you are being forced.

[@NumeroSystem]

kathy kelly I agree that taxation on anything other than money is force.

[@modelmajorpita]

kathy kelly Sam is wrong - contracts are enforced. Income tax and related tax are covered by the W4 form. There are similar forms you sign agreeing to pay property taxes and corporate taxes. Stores sign contracts agreeing to pay sales taxes and then increase the price of their goods to push those costs onto the consumer. If it's ok to have a massive imbalance in power when workers sign contracts agreeing to low wages, why isn't ok when they sign contracts agreeing to pay taxes?

[@Milverton68]

Fantastic!

[@anertia]

Sam kinda said this, but it needs to be emphasized: Both complete equality of opportunity and free markets are impossible. But. More equality is good. Freer markets are not.

[@Darkersneasel]

Not disagreeing with this notion. But if someone's ethics/morals are on the side of corporations then the opposite is true. Hence why it was pointless to argue this with the libertarian. Because they think freer markets leads to good and inching closer to it is a beneficial (to someone at least). It was touched up on the video where who dictates morals? Morals are subjective and the majority of the people dictate morals. It's why the south had slavery, it's why we're moving towards more progressive ideology. Morals are always changing. You can debate morals all day but ultimately the person has to make up the decision in their mind on whether or not their morals are inherently "wrong"

[@holymoses1744]

"So much for that story you tell yourself."

[@SocialAnarchism]

Sam, you always do a really good job but one part of your argument that I don't like, which I believe I have heard you make before, is that "When in history has such and such existed" It's really kind of ridiculous because nothing existed before it did. Not modern Capitalism or modern policing or anything else. I bet 500 years ago there was 3 people sitting at a pub and one person thought out loud, "Wouldn't it be great if we didn't live under a monarch?" Sure, Greece, Rome and Carthage was one big exception but the vast majority of folks wouldn't have been able to imagine what that might look like and even less would have believed it possible and yet here we are. Monarchs are mostly a thing of the past and not looking to come back any time soon. If those prior examples hang some folks up, well then I would say the same thing for the people that came just before those nations. Now for a bit of ranting I really hate libertarianism and I hate that half of them have hijacked either the word Anarchism or the prefix Anarcho. My gripe aside, I dislike them as much as I can without needing to use the word "Hate" but they are seriously flirting with the border. Does it strike anybody as strange that you've never met a libertarian of color? Ok, I'm sure there is an exception here or there and I don't include anyone, POC or white, that is sorta transitioning towards left ideologies through libertarianism. As far as very serious, you know, 20+ year, die hard libertarians, I have never met a single one that didn't suffer a serious lack of melanin. One of my biggest gripes with their ideas is either A, the level of disconnect for struggling and oppressed peoples living in misery, especially when you consider that we are a social creature, or B, their very serious lack of empathy for said people. Libertarianism would only cement the white boot on our necks. White folks already own most of the world. Capitalism allows them to do it and libertarianism would allow the the worst inclinations of capitalism to go unchecked. Not just people of color either, but poor folks in general. You know, why libertarianism will never exist, because your Defense Resolution Organizations and voluntary militias would not hold back the tide of us tearing it down. The world would be so unjust, so completely miserable that poor people would be compelled to action. "When the world starves, the poor shall eat the rich"

[@nosuchthing8]

If your new form of government has no way to fund roads across the US, I have no interest in such a government.

[@anthonymort5202]

It amazes me that libertarians think that they're so smart but they don't get why we have to pay taxes if you like living in a functioning society than taxes are the price that you pay for that since the dawn of time we've paid taxes to live in a functioning society before there was paper money we used to pay those taxes and grains and crops there has always been a tax system in society

[@kathykelly5930]

So Sam wants nationalized care because it will lead to better outcomes? Then how come countries with universal care generally have longer waiting lines and worse outcomes for deadly diseases?

[@asherahhelmsley211]

kathy kelly Facts mean nothing to you. Countries with nationalized healthcare systems have much better results @2014

[@kathykelly5930]

asherah helmsley no

[@asherahhelmsley211]

kathy kelly Bet healthcare systems in the world www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6?op=1 all national

[@kathykelly5930]

asherah helmsley Common wealths research is laughable. thefederalist.com/2013/11/25/the-commonwealth-funds-deceptive-research/

[@kathykelly5930]

***** Canada has longer wait times and worse medical results.

[@outlawJosieFox]

Really interesting. In the UK we have health care free for every citizen paid for by income related taxation, which is paid by the employee and matched to some extent by the employer. This is a recognition that these health services would otherwise fall on the employer, or at least it would if one wanted to maintain a healthy workforce? But the main thing I wanted to mention is a flat rate benefit called child benefit which is paid to each and every parent and for each and every child. Being as it is the child's money essentially, then I think it's not added to the parent's income as taxable income. There has often times been discussion about whether there should be a level of wealth above which a parent should no longer be awarded child benefit, but it has always been resisted because women's rights groups have said that even wealthy women might be financially deprived by a husband and this money is sacrosanct and is oniy to be spent on the child's welfare. Actually, in reality that's impossible to police, but it occurred to me that this benefit could be a way of covering that gap which always occurs to someone when a level of taxation is set.

[@honeytesta5960]

Absolutely, Somalia is totally a libertarian 's heaven. Hmm , I wonder why they aren't all immigrating, to a society , that lines up so perfectly with their ideal society.

[@robinsss]

Somalia was an ancap heaven not libertarian ancaps have created a lot of confusion but at some point in history the first political group to have the name libertarian attached to them was in favor of abolishing the gov't or against it that group is the original libertarian group once you research it the first political group called libertarians wanted to keep the gov't

[@julianmarsh1378]

Andrew Carnegie, if I am remembering the quote properly, "A great man is never so great as when he is bending down to extend his hand to help another man up. But government should not make him do it." Carnegie then went on and as an elderly man, gave away his fortune to fund schools, museums, libraries, etc. The living embodiment of what this caller is trying to say. The problem is this duty to a higher morality simply cannot be counted on to exist in sufficient number and force, to address a modern society's many needs. I know I have just stated the obvious but with libertarians, the obvious is well, obviously elusive.

[@robinsss]

at 9:42 Sam said that '' this country's always taken taxes ''''''' that's not true the founders paid for the government with tariffs and excise taxes from things like liquor there was no permanent income tax he said that the free market has never existed and can't America has a free market right now the definition of free market is not a market without regulation the definition of a free market is a market where private companies are allowed to compete with one another then he said that the only two ways to pay for government is with income tax or divine intervention that's not true like i said before we could use excise or sales taxes to pay for it

[@julianmarsh1378]

@@robinsss We have not always had direct taxes such as a federal income tax...but a tax is pretty much a tax...

[@robinsss]

@@julianmarsh1378 no there is a big difference between the income tax and a sales tax the government forces people to pay the income tax no customer is forced to pay a sales tax by the government they can leave the product on the shelf and walk out the door

[@julianmarsh1378]

@@robinsss But revenue is nonetheless collected. You can walk out and leave the item on the shelf but are you going to leave every item on the shelf? At any rate, a sales tax is a means of raising revenue just as an income tax. And, if you are particularly poor or lower middle class, you might not even be required to pay an income tax, anyway--the government, far from collecting this tax, will give YOU money...the real issue is not whether one is forced to pay a tax; we are forced to pay taxes all the time, in a modern society. Want to avoid paying a tax on gasoline? Don't drive would be your answer.

[@robinsss]

@@julianmarsh1378 and some people in the big cities where public transportation is really efficient don't they take the bus and subway and avoid the cost of a car the government does force us to pay taxes but we don't have to be we could use sales taxes to make it more fair we could exempt taxes on essential items

[@mrrominemr]

U.S. Dollars belongs to the U.S. government you dont have ownership rights to the dollar. Use of the Dollar is voluntary If you never use a dollars you won't Owe taxes.

[@minnowshark]

Is every Libertarian that calls this show incapable of making a succinct point? It seems they spend all their time babbling without a clear, concise, and cogent thought.

[@ripsirwin1]

best libertarian smackdown i've seen on this channel so far!

[@jeremyeinbinder4632]

I had a movie idea about the economy being liquidated and everyone starting over from the same place. Interesting that Sam would mention that prospect.

[@LaylaSpellwind]

I like the idea of taxes basically being a tip jar instead. But it's just unfortunate that it wouldn't work. Taxes are a great system, provided the person in charge of the money isn't a total buffoon. But I'm still pro tax.

[@Seofthwa]

How is it a useless force? He pays his taxes or goes to jail or has his property confiscated. Then it is not useless. The more I learn about Libertarianism the more childish it seems.

[@5TailFox]

Libertarianism strikes me as a rather egomaniacal way of thinking. The reason why I say this, is because all these guys who call in with this libertarian world view, never stop to think that it could very well be *them* who ends up on the wrong side of such a philosophy. They never put *themselves* in the position of the guy who's sick, and the society around him is willing to let him die, simply because he can't afford medical treatment. _Or_ the position of the person who can't afford their own top notch security force, to protect their property from outside threats. Or the person who's hungry, and can't feed themselves, or their family. And so on, so forth. They always seem to believe that it could never *possibly* be _them_ who need the assistances, and social saftey nets, that're available to them in _this_ society, but totally nonexistent in the society they want so much. It's fuckin' crazy.

[@jblacka9459]

+Shawnee Longbow Its analysis based on the atomised individual taken to its absurd logical extreme. I guess that would tend to attract the person who could be described as an egomaniac.

[@AngryVet44]

It’s Ayn Randism where every one of these Howard Roark idolizes thinks they would rise above not get absolutely screwed when the billionare Koch brothers run a oil pipeline through their house against their wishes because they lost in court and don’t have the money and contrary to how the Koch’s talk about libertarian property rights reality is a pipeline is going to mean a taken house by money and court or they will just poison your water with no justice.

[@jimvacuum]

So fix head start in that case

[@meddlesomemusic]

Sam debates smart 11 year old libertarian*

[@donnanhuggler8451]

Thank you

[@oneman5753]

I feel like libertarians have problems reasoning

[@robinsss]

why do you say that?

[@lucashotchkiss2627]

What's wrong with being for individualism, gay marriage, guns, weed, and the free market? That sounds pretty cool.

[@kathykelly5930]

So we need the gov't to regulate power disparities because those disparities are bad. But you run to the gov't who has the biggest power disparity on a macro level?

[@kyle1910]

When Sam says there will always be people who lose a benefit by being paid more from a job and the benefit loss outweighs the gain from the wage increase, that tells me we need to chill out on the means testing

[@nathangoss8932]

great debate, one of my favorites. I dissagree with much of what the libertarian said, but he was respectful and articulate, which made for a very engaging and interesting debate.

[@dreaminginnoother]

I will give him that. He was more civil than a lot of callers and debaters.

[@amazingblur3543]

Sam has never considered that taxation could come with representation. Tolls as one example, better than that, the businesses that require these roads should pay those taxes, those taxes should be represented in sales tax and so on and so forth. Maybe it's complicated, but only as complicated as it already is and actually it makes more sense. Income tax is criminal. It's unfortunate that statement most benefits those who have so much, but it gives us all more control and those with such an unfair advantage get that way in a society whose regulations are too tight and too loose in all the wrong places. Government can gain the money it needs in so many other ways and more importantly stop wasting it in so many ways. Health care, college tuition and housing are the three biggest blows everyone alive today has seen to our standard of living and they all occurred due to the government. A system like wall street is not an example of capitalism. Capitalism should not be confused for democracy.

[@iMaDeMoN2012]

I love the big pot idea. It's so obvious. I've used on my own libertarians friends long before I heard of TMR.

[@spoton3278]

Even $15/hr can't feed a family of four even with OT lol

[@lindaleelaw5277]

Libertarian: I live on $900 dis. check... if I had no insurance , and tripped and got hurt on a public sidewalk, which I have, then I an liable ????

[@triknives]

The way this person talks is just so brutal. And its amazing how little you can say in a 5 minute ramble. Does he just sit and "ponder" to himself? lol

[@hugocosta2772]

In Monaco nobody pays taxes.

[@philjr5714]

Ok?

[@TechnocraticBushman]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Monaco They have all sorts of taxes and monopolies on whole industries like say tobacco and telecom. They have a business taxes. They just don't have an income tax. Of course almost nobody earns any income there. It's a tax haven. You rip off USA citizens and *then* you go to Monaco to enjoy the "fruits of your labor". That's the idea behind Monaco. Try to be skeptical of other things as well, not just of Mickey Mouse, okay?

[@chad3232132]

Yes, they do actually.

[@golden-63]

Yes, they do. Just not income taxes.

[@adamweir1191]

What it comes down to is deontological versus consequentialist ethics. The libertarian philosophy is one that focuses on right action and therefore rejects violence, force and coercion whereas others which advocate force and coercion to achieve their aims focus on right outcomes. That was very much evident in the debate. The caller has no regard for the ends and Seder has no regard for the means by which desirable ends are achieved.

[@Darkersneasel]

I'm pretty sure Seder does have regards for the means. He's admits many times in his other discussions it's not perfect but the "devil" is sometimes necessary. He just points out the alternative is worse because while you're not forcing someone to pay, that the end result is worse than a minor inconvenience towards people.

[@frelonvert6064]

Libertarian: People should be responsible. The same Libertarian: I don't want to pay my tax. Society: But paying your tax IS being responsible. The same Libertarian: What, sorry, my phone isn't working very well.

[@frelonvert6064]

Seder: The free market doesn't exist. Libertarian: The free market does exist. Seder: Then tell me about one. Libertarian: The free market doesn't exist. Whaaaa...?

[@SHAMSHAM1090]

I wonder if Sam would be interested in talking to an ex Alex Jones such as me. That was I think five years ago.

[@devourerofbabies]

SHAMSHAM1090 I bet he would. I'm certain of it. I'm sure he'd love to hear about your journey back from Wonderland, through the rabbit hole, and back to sanity.

[@SHAMSHAM1090]

I might give him a call sometime. I didn't loose friends or family. But it could have gotten much worse.

[@Stupidityindex]

Who said anything about Libertarianism? It's Lizardarianism we are talking about here.

[@6TROPIC]

Libertarian fire dept = roasting peanuts and such when your neighbors house is burning down.....wow

[@josephde-haan1074]

I hate the equality of oppurtunity argument as it just ignores science, anthropology,,,, history. To exist in a just, sustainable society we need to work towards eqaulity of outcome. Most of our existance as a species has been based around equality of outcome, it has only been for around the last 10,000 years things changed. Also we are born somewhat different (Biologically we are pretty much the same.), different capabilities, different mental processes, different thinking. Should you be penalised from a fair outcome because you were born blind or born in a desert or born speaking Welsh. Also the morality argument is ignorant. Firstly morality and ethics are subjective, also like everyone they are driven by environmental forces. Today people see it as immoral to kill babies. As hunter gatherers if the population of a tribe grew to big for the holding capacity of their grounds it was immoral not to kill the baby and put the whole tribe at risk. The only moral thing is to eat the rich. Learn scientific thinking fuck faith in social constructs.

[@Sammyandbobsdad]

I'm pretty sure Somalia has a pretty low tax rate if you don't count warlords sticking guns in your face and taking everything they want, but they aren't representatives of the government, they are entrepreneurs, so Somalia is the libertarian paradise.

[@nealb2001]

Ryan Cole - Also criminals are actually just victims of government kidnapping when they go to jail. They never agreed that by committing a crime they could go to jail- government just enforces this with force.. So as much as taxation is theft, spare a thought for those poor victims of kidnapping- even if they not nice people.

[@30yearoldmanthatgetsbullie44]

Neal Brooker yeesh

[@willdenham]

De-regulation at it's finest. "Survival of the fittest" as many of them like to point out.

[@125loopy]

@@pw5975 exactly! I saw someone say poor people who vote against themselves see themselves as "embarrassed millionaires" instead of poor people. They keep thinking these tax cuts to the rich will somehow be theirs one day.

[@MrPlooky]

war lords are a 3rd party..LOL

[@AnxiousObserver]

A libertarian caller! ::grabs my popcorn::

[@TheKittiesKilll]

AnxiousObserver I hope you brought enough for everyone

[@muddywitch9016]

Me too - better than comedy!

[@denieerham5873]

got some for me mate?

[@kimberlymerced103]

You got the popcorn I got the M&Ms

[@jaredlind20]

AnxiousObserver a libertarian caller: grabs my drink 🍹

[@nezerac]

Does anyone else notice that there's always anti-progressive ads on the most progressive channels?

[@legendofshaunesquire3014]

2 years later it is still the case. We finally have Bernie Ads. But the left dont have the money. And I am pretty sure because its political news we get political news ads, which unfortunately is Daily Wire and PRAGERU.🤢🤮😵

[@stoneybologna1982]

Yep, I've been bombed with epoch times ads lately.

[@Cruizinelli12]

Yes, I’ve noticed

[@Cruizinelli12]

I’ve noticed that too! And pro trump ads 🤢

[@overbeb]

"Take Trump's Socialism poll" Nah I'm good on that, thanks.

[@jonathanrubin9094]

I love these conversations with Libertarians. Quality humor. I especially like how the caller insists on setting up a society wherein contracts are enforced by the dictates of an individual's own moral code. I am sure there won't be a consistency or implementation problem with that in a country with over 300 million people, each with his or her own unique vision of morality and moral codes!

[@authenticmind]

Jonathan rubin Of course you're right and it is so funny to think about how that may work out. Well actually kind of scary. I laugh at horror films so I guess that's okay.

[@authenticmind]

*****

[@Cyromantik]

Couple that with zero gun regulations and the coffin makers will be in the top of the economic pyramid.

[@Chrisg841]

And I bet these "moral codes" would never be prone to change due to situational personal convenience.... lol

[@Tripskull]

Libertarians are socialists who have been brainwashed by "conservative Christian" Republicans. Since there's no way to combine the 2 they struggle to score any debate points. Especially when they bring up free market garbage. It's humorous to hear them keep saying survival of thr richest while arguing that free market will help everyone. In reality they get government even if it disappears. The richest guy will buy an army. Survival of the richest

[@PristianoPenaldoSUIIII]

"Could you spare a moment for our Lord and saviour, Alex Jones?"

[@atombaxter1975]

Dnt Wry Hahahaha!!

[@floepiejane]

It IS a faith-based group.

[@tommanfrede5241]

Sam craves these callers every day after he crawls out of bed.

[@Socialism_on_Roids]

Tom Manfrede I crave these kinds of Libertarian commenters on Facebook. They're fuckin hilarious!

[@dantexavier7934]

+Tom Manfrede It is good to like what you do.

[@dalepeto9620]

+Tom Manfrede Is your real name NEWMAN?

[@lindaleelaw5277]

some prefer sex, some coffee....lol

[@nosuchthing8]

So do I

[@brucebasile5083]

Libertarians have fantasy ideas that come down to letting corporations be the winners and regular people are the losers. Libertarians have morphed into greedy fucks who want to pay no taxes to help people in need of help.They ignore the 50 years of success for the middle class that came from the NEW DEAL and GREAT SOCIETY programs.

[@mckt007]

Less regulation means more competition and less large corporations, though. When there is a bunch of small businesses instead of large corporations - the market for labour is more competitive, meaning higher wages.

[@mckt007]

mrbadguysan Yes. I am an entrepreneur myself, and I can attest to the fact that government regulation is the single largest barrier to entry for small businesses.

[@mckt007]

mrbadguysan The tendency is for special interest groups to lobby for government regulations that keep competitors out of the market, though.

[@mckt007]

Don't call me governed. I'm a free man. My problem is not which lobbyists access the gun in the room (political power), my problem is the actual gun in the room. Good ideas do not need to be forced on people.

[@mckt007]

mrbadguysan I'd say most of our safety comes from technology that non-government companies have developed. Sure there are things that are unsafe, but I wholeheartedly believe that government officials have no business with whether I wear a seat belt or not.

[@infiniteflame2374]

I have watched a number of these phone ins from Libertarians and my understanding of them is that they want to reap the benefits of being in a society, while at the same time contributing nothing to it.

[@bro6568]

Libertarians seem to be the people that want to climb the socioeconomic ladder no matter the people they screw over be it individuals or the public at large and are mad that they have the pesky evil government holding them back.. purely sinister and selfish greed

[@ponaliramos9773]

Maybe the ones he takes on his show. But most of us just don't want our rights being taken UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FOR ANY "REASON" because it's what has given us all of our wealth power and free way of life that we enjoy in America. Anyone who thinks it's ok to breach any ones civil rights like free speech or owning a firearm for any reason has either knowingly or unknowingly been influenced by propaganda

[@satchmo2621]

@@ponaliramos9773what a complete misdirect lol. You already have those things. The point is you have to give back if you expect them or anything else this society offers. Nice try though

[@stephenshuman1]

Free market capitalist contribute more to society than socialists

[@jonlivesley]

@@ponaliramos9773 Where do you think civil rights come from?

[@outlawJosieFox]

What makes me sick is that it's always relatively healthy middle class dudes who believe this crap. They haven't had a day's sickness in their lives and probably are fretting about inheritence tax on the middle class pile daddy is gonna leave them. Social security coverage is not there for the likes of you. The working class have given up many rights in order to have this kind of help. Middle class people pay taxes because otherwise the working class would rise up and take it all: let's get real here !!

[@eddiemaxblack]

Fact is: most Americans favor universal/public health care. That's what most Americans want. I mean, that's a moral decision that most Americans have made. What stops it? A libertarian/corporate mindset. By which only the rich count. We live in a society that says: why should I care if that old woman down the street starves. Who cares. It ain't none of my business. I mean, should we have that uncaring mindset to soldiers? Should we care about soldiers? Well, libertarianism says no. It says we should not care about soldiers. That, to me, is immoral.

[@TheMandanga]

Edward Black Well said. The GOP has hooked a lot of people in with God and guns, when in truth many of those people would support liberal policies if they could look at things clearly.

[@omegaclass1696]

Edward Black As long as it's not mandatory i support universal health care. if i can afford an insurance plan with all the bells and whistles i should not have to pay Obama one penny of tax for his ObamaNotCare. Yes we should give soldiers all the same free health care Obama/Bush/Clinton/Ford/Your Senator gets for life if injured while serving our country.

[@nishithpatel7644]

LelBron The inability of people to look at things clearly is why I take issue with religion sometimes. I know that there's a very different movement happening in parts of Europe right now but I wonder if they would have been able to develop such socially liberal policies without the secularization that took place across that continent in the 18th and 19th centuries?

[@authenticmind]

Edward Black You must be a Bernie Sanders Fan? It would seem natural as he is so on target and you seem to have the same targets too. I have to tell you that I agree about how caring we have become. I get so pissed off each time I see these commercials on TV for Wounded Warrior and other veteran charities. WE owe the veterans everything and we have let our government get away with being irresponsible. If you're disabled and you are that way because you are an American soldier, we should take care of you without question. To let our soldiers become charity cases is a shame, a national shame. Nothing against the people helping our veterans at all, it's just they shouldn't have to because WE the PEOPLE are responsible. It's truly a crying shame.

[@stratecaster547]

" As long as it's not mandatory i support universal health care" That's nonsensical. Universal Health Care by definition requires mandatory participation.

[@rebeccamartin411]

Caller: "can I just point out one more thing though?" Sam: "Sure" Micheal: "No" Caller: "one more underlying assumption about the minimum wage" Micheal: "Oh my god" 😂 RIP Micheal

[@poltronafrau]

Who’s micheal

[@hen5555]

@@poltronafrau Some skid mark producer

[@aurelien5747]

@@hen5555he’s dead I’m pretty sure

[@w0t_m818]

@@poltronafrau Michael Brooks, he was producer and co-host of the show until he passed away in his sleep a few years back. He's the one talking in the background.

[@carlozlobo1]

Ill believe a corporation is a person when I see one go to jail for breaking the law!!!

[@Calabrin1]

It’s so cute that someone would freely confess to being an Alex Jones fan and then still think they should be taken seriously.

[@SPAMDAGGER22]

Some comments age poorly. Yours aged like fine wine. It is still very relevant 3 years after the fact.

[@daveb5041]

"I'm not that kind of libertarian" . Imagine if we had no roads, electrical grid, sewer, 911, police, fire, ambulance, parks, treaties to stop messing up the environment etc etc, it would be like somalia.

[@jeffk4608]

Sam is too smart for these guys, Sam makes too much sense and these Libertarians dont even have a come back. This is not a debate, Sam is educating these people.

[@FunkyMunkyLuv]

Participation in economic dominance hierarchies are "freedom" and you can't argue with that, says the collective hive-mind of right-wing libertarianism/theology.

[@devourerofbabies]

Jason Gregory Hahaha

[@FunkyMunkyLuv]

***** What if you don't want to, but your only other "choice" is starvation...is that "freedom" too? Do you even understand the point that Sam was trying to get you to understand about how the contextual history of a person's life influences the choices available to us? It's such a simple point, but you guys try to minimize it for some reason...because potato--it's an inconvenient confrontation with the reality that if you have more money, you have more choices. There is a direct relationship between a person's economic power and their lived experience of freedom. When you guys minimize this simple point, when you guys equate the lived experiences and freedoms of a kid who grew up in Appalachian poverty with a kid who grew up with a silver spoon, you show that you have an impoverished understanding of "freedom."

[@FunkyMunkyLuv]

***** You don't define it as "not truly a choice?" Can you please rephrase this double negative gibberish? It's not clear if you think the choice between starvation and wage slavery is "freedom" or not.

[@eyeseethroughyou]

***** "Why not?" Because nobody here is proposing that, you jack ass. It's called a red herring, logical fallacies are a right wing "libertarian" thing.

[@eyeseethroughyou]

***** Yes, it's a red herring. We aren't talking about a globally enforced distribution system, or at least I'm not--I believe in crushing capitalism and handing the means of production over to workers, the ones who actually produce. Although as far as the topic of this conversation is concerned, it's about the welfare state and a security net on a national scale.

[@pixelbath2131]

every libertarian gives of this aura of entitlement that screams "but my daddy got rich emulating slavery why Cant I?!"

[@SeanLaMontagne]

The best part of any libertarian call is in this video When Sam says "I don't care about abiding by some broad guiding principles. I care about results. I don't care if a policy is libertarian or liberal or conservative or whatever. I care about results! Good positive results for society."

[@DevAngelo]

I'd say you need to get smarter callers.. But this is par for the libertarian course.

[@DevAngelo]

Par perhaps

[@devourerofbabies]

jakegibson No such thing.

[@honestchrismcg]

jakegibson This guy is above average for libertarians. That's what makes this so sad.

[@devourerofbabies]

Christopher McGowan He's just calmer than most. He doesn't argue any better.

[@jbevan70]

jakegibson Fuck you.

[@nosuchthing8]

'Where we're going, we don't need roads' back to the future and libertarians

[@independentvoter8710]

Sam's arguments are the exact reason I left libertarianism.

[@nosuchthing8]

Great arguments. I never bought into this. Because I can't travel down a path with no roads.

[@santosd6065]

Sam, you're doing a fine job of mopping the floor with this guy, but you don't need to make it that hard on yourself. Rather than arguing over letting your neighbor die in the street (which, if they're the Libertarians, they don't care)... how about privatizing: 1) The Police, so you pay for murder investigations yourself 2) The sidewalks, so you pay a toll every time you take a walk 3) All the airports 4) Every street, road and highway 5) All the public schools.. if you can't afford private school, your kid cant read & write 6) Export every single job to India and China except burger flipping jobs (Oh wait, they're already doing that) "Libertarianism" is a totally dopey ideology. In practice it means "Privatize anything that benefits you, socialize whatever benefits me"

[@colconn57]

Ayn Rand ended up accepting social security. How's that for a huge 'Fuck my wasted life"

[@robinsss]

she sold hundreds of thousands of copies of her books world wide until her death the idea that she needed social security with those profits coming in is not believable

[@nosuchthing8]

​@@robinsss Upon the release of the book containing Pryor's testimony, critics of Ayn Rand's uncompromising libertarian ethos wasted no time pointing out the apparent inconsistency and hypocrisy of her acceptance of government payments. In an op-ed titled "Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them," AlterNet's Joshua Holland

[@schwaaamjohnson7971]

Why can I always tell that a libertarian is a libertarian by their tone of voice

[@nosuchthing8]

Yes, they always have that smug air of superiority that gets smacked off their faces.

[@cl9826]

This caller became Marxist-Leninist by the way.

[@ransom182]

How do you know this?

[@vansdan.]

necro but need to know

[@bhagwanfruglee1662]

“Socialism never actually worked” “Bro… most of Europe? What examples of libertarianism worked??” “No, that’s just logical, dont worry about it…”

[@robinsss]

Europe is mostly social democracy not socialist

[@bhagwanfruglee1662]

@@robinsss my point’s still valid lol

[@beringstraitrailway]

We could call Europe "progressive" but conservatives say that is socialist, even though it isn't.

[@airthrow]

This caller had not an original argument or thought to put forward which is why Sam lost his patience and cut him off a little too much. I think Sam is getting bored of skewering these Libertarians, but it's my favorite type of video.

[@DrSpooglemon]

Alex Jones has fans? I mean fans who don't think he's a comedian?

[@nlsupernovaable]

DrSpooglemon what? do you mean that isn't satire?

[@jewsco]

Not such a joke anymore as his lunacy is one of the direct causes of Qanon

[@cr4yv3n]

"Chick-a-fill" LOL

[@jameswallace2057]

I laughed at the "chik a fil" lmao...

[@suedavis3525]

So he wants to live in a society without police, fire service, public schools etc. What a prat

[@nosuchthing8]

And roads. Forget roads.

[@oskarfabian5200]

when libertarians talk, all I hear is: "me me me me me me me me..." but maybe that's my European "socialist" view.

[@yoelsyhutchinson4377]

That is exactly what I hear,but I also have an European socialist views,😂

[@chelsealynn9402]

its funny how logic totally flies out the window for libertarians

[@Puketapu]

That guy was pretty calm and collected for one of those guys

[@mazz972003]

We need a Seder University youtube channel.

[@Cruizinelli12]

This caller was surprisingly calm and rational for an Alex Jones fan. I was expecting more drama.

[@averagejoe455]

I'm perfectly fine paying my taxes to benefit my state and federal government. (When we can actually fight to get to where taxes don't just go to war) I'm not a petulant child like Libertarians are.

[@robinsss]

telling the gov't '''' i don't want to pay taxes because i never promised to taxes''' is not childish you are not more mature than libertarians you just don't mind letting the government violate your rights

[@SilverSpoonRiche]

I don't know what Libertarianism is (too many "isms" to keep up with in politics today) but this guy definitely sounds like a "Sovereign Citizen".

[@nosuchthing8]

Rehashed anarchists

[@SilverSpoonRiche]

@@nosuchthing8 Yeah looking at the things Rand Paul says, I can see your point.

[@agarthastudio6005]

$15/hr is barely enough to sustain 1 person in a 1 bedroom apartment.

[@hermeskun3274]

I don't know where you live or what you're doing wrong, but that's crazy.

[@agarthastudio6005]

@@hermeskun3274 Phoenix, AZ. Some of the fastest rising rent/housing cost in the country.

[@hermeskun3274]

@@agarthastudio6005 you know, I thought about what I said, and I was a bit harsh. I am sorry for that. While there are plenty of places that one person with a full time $15/hr job could easily substain themselves in a one bedroom apartment, there are varying factors. I actully lived in Flagstaff for a brief while, lovely place, hot as hell though. What's the utility cost down there? I can't imagine the average is less than $250/month. Which even if you were lucky enogh to find a $900/month would elevate it to $1150.

[@agarthastudio6005]

@@hermeskun3274 It's pretty insane. I started out paying $565/month for a one bedroom a few years ago. I'm now in a studio, paying about $1000/month. I'm managing; but it's hard to get ahead when literally with every raise, the rent rises drastically as well. I don't understand how these people think running a country/economy like this is in any way sustainable...

[@jewsco]

@@hermeskun3274 any major city

[@oskarfabian5200]

all libertarians would end up with feudalism

[@paulsmith5116]

When Sam mentioned that under anarcho-capitalism someone could sell themselves into slavery, the caller changed the topic instead of disputing it.

[@franglish9265]

Yeah

[@robinsss]

he could not because slavery is involuntary

[@paulsmith5116]

@@robinsss if someone signs a contract agreeing to be a slave without being coerced, then on some level it is voluntary.

[@robinsss]

@@paulsmith5116 i just looked up slave in several dictionaries and all of them involve an involuntary restriction of freedom so slavery can not be voluntary i you agree to the situation and continue to agree to it you are not a slave

[@DiegoAquila]

I think the major issue in their argument is that taxes are "taking someone's stuff", but it's not wholly *their* stuff, noone earns wealth totally by oneself in modern society

[@Darkersneasel]

Right? I take a road to work. The government has made infrastructure such as lighting, water piping, sewers, parks, etc. But they're like "Well wars are bad so all government is bad. Defund them entirely."

[@robinsss]

give me an example of what you mean?

[@coletrickle1775]

​@@robinsss Start a company in Guatemala, start the same company in the US. Which one is prosperous and which one isn't? K. Good talk.

[@ArchlordZer0]

Wow, Sam totally demolished the caller's argument. Like I almost felt bad for him.

[@raygman8605]

"walmart can't build roads" hah

[@TheJonnyEnglish]

ray gman they could, but won't. or just build a road leading to their store.

[@mnguardianfan7128]

Anyone who 'loves' Alex Jones should automatically be dismissed and ignored.