Alex Jones Ordered To Pay $49 MILLION To Sandy Hook Families | Trial DEBATE | Krystal Kyle & Friends

NOTE: This was recorded just BEFORE the verdict!
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"The first time I ever really listened to Kyle Kulinski’s show was in the back of a cab last summer. The driver had his phone hooked up through the stereo and was pumping out an episode through the car speakers - loudly, as if looking to convert a captive audience.
“Do you like Kyle Kulinski?”
The driver, Ahmed, was a recent immigrant and apparently a die-hard fan of Secular Talk, the political talk show that Kulinski broadcasts on KZbin. I told him, yes, in fact. I do like Kulinski, had come across his show several years ago, and, all things considered, he seemed pretty good.
“He understands what we’re up against,” Ahmed said. “Like Bernie.”
But I was surprised to hear Kulinski’s name mentioned in the same breath as Bernie Sanders, particularly with such adoration. Because what I did remember about Kulinski’s show struck me as mostly capital-P “progressive” takes on the news - the left wing of the Netroots crowd more than the democratic socialism Sanders has popularized.
It’s an impression that wasn’t entirely incorrect.
“I have no time for philosophical, airy bullshit,” Kulinski tells me from his home in Westchester, New York. “I don’t want to hear about Lenin. I don’t want to hear about Marx. I just want a super plainspoken, straightforward agenda with a straightforward way of selling it.”
With over 800,000 subscribers and nearly 670 million total views on KZbin, selling a progressive agenda is clearly something Kulinski knows how to do - even Democracy Now, the long-standing flagship of progressive media, cannot match his reach on the platform. Chapo Trap House can certainly boast a wildly devoted fan base (and a not insignificant degree of media influence), but their audience is roughly half the size of Kulinski’s.
While Secular Talk might be more likely to be looped in with the progressive networks around Air America and Pacifica alums like Sam Seder than the more resolutely socialist world, Kulinski’s fiery rhetoric, razor-sharp class instincts, and knack for withering takedowns sets him apart from his peers. Judging by his rhetoric alone, he’s closer to a Eugene Debs than a Chris Hayes.
But unlike Hayes, Amy Goodman, or his friend Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks - who began airing Secular Talk on his web network seven years ago - the thirty-two-year-old Kulinski is virtually invisible in the mainstream media. Despite his enormous fan base, his show has never once been mentioned in the obligatory trend pieces on “the Millennial Left” pumped out by the prestige media. Nor has Kulinski’s name ever popped up at all in the New York Times, Vox, the New Yorker, New York Magazine, or the Washington Post, despite his leading role in cofounding Justice Democrats, the organization widely credited with sweeping Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the rest of “the Squad” to power.
Just last week, his Wikipedia page was deleted. The reason? “There is very simply no [reliable source] coverage of this person,” according to one moderator. In new media, he’s king - the Sean Hannity of the Berniecrat left. In old media, he’s nobody.
I suspect there are a few reasons for that. There is nothing “cool” about Kulinski’s show. (As a friend put it, “‘Welcome to Secular Talk’ sounds like something you’d hear on Egyptian radio.”) His no-nonsense social-democratic politics won’t get him much cred with the Full Communism crowd. He records his show not in Brooklyn or Los Angeles, but in a studio he built himself in his modest Westchester home. His hair is too groomed and his taste in clothes too preppy to qualify as “Dirtbag Left.” Nor has he ever attended an n+1 release party. “Not only have I not attended one,” he says, “I have no idea what that means.”
And yet he’s astonishingly plugged-in for a young man in the suburbs. Wondering how Sanders ended up on the Joe Rogan Experience? Kulinski, a frequent guest on Rogan’s wildly popular show, introduced them. “You make the most sense to me,” Rogan told Kulinski on a recent episode. “You’re a normal person.”
Much like Sanders himself, Kulinski’s show has a massive audience that just doesn’t compute with our media’s understanding of “what the kids want” or even “what the left-wing kids want.”
It’s probably for the best - the very woke and very WASP-ish decorum haunting much of the media world is nowhere to be found in Secular Talk. “Corporate Democrats over-focus on identity as a trick to divert you from the issues that unite us all - class issues,” he said on a recent episode. “That Raytheon decided they don’t hate gays or trans people - frankly, I don’t really give a shit what their take on that is..."
Read More Here!:
jacobinmag.com/2020/03/kyle-k...
#KyleKulinski #SecularTalk

[@mellonlord4616]

But he did know it was a lie. He wasn't just sued for a few initial questions. He was sent proof, copies of birth certificates, death certificates, by the families lawyers and STILL lied. He did know.

[@Anthropomorphic]

Yeah, I think it's been argued by at least one of the lawyers representing some of the families that Jones started off sincerely thinking it was a hoax, and then developed such a resentment against the families after they started criticizing him that he essentially started avoiding the evidence out of a desire to keep believing the worst about them. Even after he eventually came around on the literal issue of the shooting being real, he hung onto his grudge against his critics.

[@TeemoTeemosson]

Because birth certificates and death certificates can't be faked by the government?

[@Anthropomorphic]

@@TeemoTeemosson Jones apparently doesn't think they were faked, though, given that he's said for years that the shooting wasn't fake.

[@danparish1344]

Obama provided a birth certificate as well but people still believed he was born in Kenya. That kind of proof to the conspiratorial mind is just proof of the lengths the government will go to cover their tracks.

[@jayray1714]

When you claim every, and I mean literally every, mass shooting as a false flag or hoax, that tells me you know it's an act, and a very profitable one at that.

[@wunnell]

Jones said, while under oath, that anything over $2 million would ruin Infowars. If Infowars continues to exist after this, that's another count of perjury he should be tried for.

[@WhiteWolf126]

That's a complete lie. Infowars bring in huge numbers so 2 million dollars is nothing for them.

[@wunnell]

@@WhiteWolf126 , I agree and that was my point. They've been ordered to pay far more than the figure he quoted and so, when the company doesn't fold as a result, he should be charged with perjury for claiming that it would in a pathetic attempt to minimise the judgement against him.

[@erinsymone1645]

So basically all you have to say is "I didn't mean it" and then boom, consequences don't matter, everyone has to believe that statement, and you can go on your merry way.

[@sprig5173]

Worse you can put yourself forward as a truth seeker and actively not seek the truth.

[@uncomfortabletruth5915]

@@sprig5173 I watched Jones going way back to Y2K, so it’s not like he didn’t espouse truth, he often spun truths to his own fear narratives and Hell even some of the truthful parts are scary so when you spin down the rabbit hole, crisis actors to some of us didn’t seem so out of the Realm of possibility. Though for most listeners, they take it with a grain of salt, it’s those that don’t, that are the issue with any conspiracy speculation!

[@hat8918]

No. You have to show clear consequences. Amber Herd's speech caused Depp to lose movie roles. Damages. Jones did not ask people to commit crimes and he did not name anyone in particular, he was giving commentary on a public event, and was wrong. People hurt by his words, were not required to listen to him.. and long after Jones stopped saying it, people continued to choose to harass these people. You are responsible for your own actions.

[@bigoltits1880]

Yeah. granting people basic freedoms has consequences: lies will spread. That's the trade-off, always has been. Founding fathers made that trade-off when they decided to protect free speech. you cant stop the spread of lies without resorting to straight up fascism.

[@uncomfortabletruth5915]

@@bigoltits1880 There is no trade off, not in my opinion, because there is no way to curb speech, without tyranny. Especially when truth is many times subjective and relative.

[@Black_Caucus]

Considering his business made 800,000 a day, this is a laughably small “punishment”, given the amount of damage that he’s done over the last decade on this topic. Charges should have also at least been *attempted* due to the parent that offed themselves as a direct result of Alex Jones’s harassment campaign. The 1st amendment bar is set high, as it should be, but I have to imagine any jury with even a little bit of common sense would have been able to draw a through line from Alex Jones’s words directly to that event. I think you’d have to be a bit delusional to pretend otherwise.

[@odoylerules77]

The scariest thing is that he made that much money a day

[@SoulfoodPogo]

This is just compensatory damages. The trial is still going on for the amount in punitive damages.

[@insightfulhistorian1861]

You make a good point. Honestly, I doubt the prosecution even considered the parent's suicide because of Jones' defamation when levying charges.

[@phaikia13]

That's on the compensatory damages. Punitive damages will be going to trial next, and those damages can be easily multiples of the compensatory damages.

[@insightfulhistorian1861]

@@odoylerules77 Makes you wonder how many people truly believe Sandy Hook was faked. I remember before KZbin started cracking down on misinformation, I found multiple videos explaining why Sandy Hook was a "false flag," and it was clear they were inspired by Infowars. The language was similar.

[@mofishin2648]

When Alex coughs he looks like Kirby after sucking up Donkey Kongs powers

[@aznanimegob]

When dk picks grey skin

[@h..8083]

Genuine question - why do you think people believe that handy sook was fake? Steelman their position for me please.

[@ep330]

@@h..8083 some of them are Schizophrenic or don’t care about the reality of what happened.

[@mofishin2648]

@@h..8083 No clue.

[@h..8083]

@@ep330 Are all of them schizophrenic? Furthermore, don’t most leftists see this kind of statement as being offensive to people who are mentally ill? Not that I agree with this assessment.

[@jamesmassey2089]

Best part of the clip was the cat grooming its crotch w/ the mic arm acting like a visual censor set up to "comply" w/ YT "standards."

[@Rhodair]

rofl the shot was lined up so perfectly my first thought was "does this happen so often his arrangement's planned around this?"

[@goldilox369]

That was compelling video, not gonna lie. 😂

[@roigrose5045]

It's the merch! And the millions of clicks to ad sites. The testimony of the economist on Alex's net worth is worth listening to in full. As always.."follow the money"! It reveals the root and meaning of the Alex Jones' operations. As Someone said..the love of money is the root of all evil.

[@Rowsy91]

hey lets not blame money here. money is still pretty great lol

[@roigrose5045]

@@Rowsy91 not blaming money, rather, blaming love of money above truth telling, for example, or other people's reputation.

[@zenbear9952]

Since Alex likes to talk about others being demons and stuff I'd say he's pretty damn chummy with Mammon the demon prince of greed.

[@rogersmith7396]

Rush Limbaugh made $50 million a year spreading lies and hate. I don't necessarily think these people believe their lies but lieing is highly profitable to them. Of course Trump does'nt believe a word he says.

[@john.premose]

No, it’s not “love of money”. It’s just money period

[@derrickbelanger]

Any amount Alex Jones is ordered to pay that doesn’t leave him living in a box is not enough

[@fruithillfarm6113]

Kyle your audience understands the difference between civil vs. criminal cases

[@MrSpiritmonger]

I liked the reminder.

[@Hana9916]

I didn't, because it's not exactly like that in my country

[@Soren59]

Not everyone does

[@metalgamer83]

Every penny he makes for the rest of his life should go to those people.

[@Rowsy91]

i would probably make sure i earned 0 dollars the rest of my life then lol

[@bobpope3656]

That is a little ridiculous but 20 mil plus fees to every family would be a good start

[@malcolmxpanther]

That’s a terrible take. He hasn’t talked about sandy hook since 2014

[@bobpope3656]

@@malcolmxpanther I am pretty sure he is talking about it now in 2022

[@BurtTurbo]

@ Chris Roswell Yeah, sounds like a great life 👍

[@mohammedraheef1415]

he got off easy. the dude makes 70 million in gross income off his website alone.

[@SoulfoodPogo]

This is just compensatory damages. The trial is still going on for the amount in punitive damages.

[@holden6104]

@@SoulfoodPogo Punitives could be crippling in this case.

[@mookiestewart3776]

@@holden6104 yup

[@mohammedraheef1415]

@@SoulfoodPogo wait actually? I thought that was the bulk of it. Isn't this is second trial that was meant to make up for the unanswered questions of the last trial?

[@ktea3744]

@@mohammedraheef1415 The last trial was to prove if he was guilty of what they were claiming. Since he did not respond to the court, he was automatically presumed guilty of the charge. This trial is to find out how much money they should be awarded.

[@clydiancecht5410]

Not even a minute into this video and a cat has Stolen the Show

[@juanvelasquez1167]

The cat is sharing its own truth

[@Black_Caucus]

I didn’t know their names, but as soon as Kyle said it’s “Alex and Sitch” at the end of the video, a lightbulb went off and I IMMEDIATELY recognized their voices from the videos I’ve seen of them saying a lot of insanely stupid shit! Was able to put two and two together after Kyle said their names.

[@The_universal_cynic]

I like how they say that they're enlightened centrists, but I really think they're just closeted conservatives.

[@WelcomeToTwinklePark]

i remember TJ went against them a few days ago after their performance trying to refute him with insults

[@The_universal_cynic]

@@WelcomeToTwinklePark yeah like as soon as TJ entered the stream they immediately brought up the banana gate thing. I'm honestly stunned that these guys are able to do an 11-hour stream and have an audience. I feel like nothing was accomplished in the hour and a half the TJ was on their show.

[@WelcomeToTwinklePark]

@@The_universal_cynic at least we can sleep comfortably knowing they went out of their way to find it and probably watched the whole thing.

[@synchronium24]

what Adam and Stitch are right about: idpol is bad what Adam and Stitch are wrong about: damn near everything else

[@garfieldGG]

Who is this goofball? “WhAt Is TRuTh?”. Edit: oh lawd this commentary just keeps getting worse.

[@sethmann6397]

Defending the Dumbald on his "good people on both sides" line is insidious. Unacceptable not to push back, Kyle. If he wasn't talking about the Nazis, to whom was he referring?

[@Grassroots_Hegemon]

The general public who was on the other side of the tearing down statues issue.

[@flashthompson6566]

​@@Grassroots_Hegemon no, he was talking about the people who knowingly allied with the people from the literal neo-Nazi "Jews will not replace us" march the night before.

[@zenbear9952]

One side tries to progress society and the other is a death cult. You know basically the same thing

[@Coconut-219]

Okay bet, stop giving money to middle-eastern war criminals.

[@theax40]

@@flashthompson6566 no he fucken wasn't. There was a large portion of people who were simply protesting the violent and unsanctioned removal of Confederate statues. That's whom he was referring to. You're either propagandized or a propagandist. If Trump is so legitimately bad, then you should have no need to lie and misrepresent him in order to bolster your argument. Do better.

[@therealivydawg]

So he lies in court, belittles the families, talks back to judge and barely gets in trouble..

[@KabbalahSherry]

He's rich, white & a "patriot" sooo.... Did you really think he'd have to pay for his crimes?? Not in America. 😄 haha All of the systems here are designed to protect Men like him. If that weren't true, we'd be seeing Epstein's clientele actually facing hard time like they should be. And we'd know their names...

[@timrattray]

Well that was definitely a lot of two dudes saying a lot of nothing about something they’re self-admittedly not knowledgeable about. No clear line of thought, just a lot of babble to skirt criticizing Jones.

[@mookiestewart3776]

Jones is a clown , dude literally had to sit there and get bodied by the judge like a small child.

[@mikehawk3472]

@@mookiestewart3776 yes, alex is a clown. That doesnt justify destroying the first amendment to best him. Just as he was the canary in the coal mine when it come to de-platforming and everyone said "oh well its just this fringe conspiracy guy" then just a year later the president is kicked off of twitter. These swords dont just cut one way, and soon enough they'll start swinging towards the left. Dont say you werent warned.

[@vinnym5607]

People complain about Krystal, but this is a pretty good example of Kyle being left alone with some lame ass dude bros is trash.

[@Rowsy91]

i disagree with almost everything he says but id be lying if i said i didnt find Alex jones entertaining af lol

[@zenbear9952]

@@Rowsy91 He's entertaining until his army of mad goons start doing what he tells them they should do

[@MIB_Inc]

Problem is the parents were being harassed and had to keep moving to get away from Alex Jones fans

[@BlackbirdSSR]

"harassed"? 🙄

[@waltergrace565]

Where's the proof of that?

[@MIB_Inc]

Didn't you watch the hearing?

[@vinnym5607]

@@MIB_Inc Jones fans only need proof from their cult leader

[@flashthompson6566]

Hell, multiple times he either gave out the exact address tied to a parent or showed their neighborhood and gave the neighborhood's location.

[@devalapar7878]

Why doesn't he invite a lawyer? Some expert? Someone who understands the case!

[@tobysmith2081]

Kyle just doesn't care about facts

[@AskMississippiAskMississippi]

“The world is in more peril from those who tolerate evil or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it.” -Dr. Albert Einstein, 1954

[@h..8083]

Tolerance is supposed to be a left wing value. Tolerance of fat people. Tolerance of trans and non-binary people. Tolerance of sexual promiscuity. The only thing they do not tolerate is different opinions.

[@harrynac6017]

@@h..8083 Einstein said this after WW2, he was talking about evil like genocide, not the evil of being fat.

[@h..8083]

@@harrynac6017 Do you think if you were around during the time of the Holocaust, would you be a brave rebel fighting against the nazis or would you be compliant in their tyranny?

[@harrynac6017]

@@h..8083 I don't know, but my aunt hooked up with a Jew during ww2 in occupied Holland and that's why he was my uncle.

[@Zeit_waise]

@@h..8083 What do you expect … the left being tolerant to intolerance - that makes no f‘n sense!

[@TangoNevada]

Even if Alex never actually said Neil's name, he did show him on video from news channels where his name is known. But I believe at some point he did mention Neil s name. He certainly did the day Neil testified. While Neil was testifying in court in this case on Tuesday, Alex was on his show calling him slow and on the spectrum.

[@BXGUY73]

I like how the guy's cat jumped up there and started CLEANING itself. LOL!

[@BXGUY73]

@Mythic Are you an alex jones info war subscriber?

[@nosondre]

What’s going on in the background there? “If I could do that, I’d never leave home.” -Steve Martin

[@EchoMirage72]

The total money owed to these parents is 49.3 million. He's already settled with others, but there's still more to come. Dude is never going to have an income ever again lol

[@scoop2448]

Texas law caps punitive damages at $750,000 per plaintiff

[@thenightingale7405]

Should be noted that he didn't lose this case on any kind of legal basis. It was a technicality.

[@T2Darlantan]

explain to me how, if Alex Jones hadn't said anything at all about Sandy Hook, those families would have made $49 million (or $150 million that they asked for), how does lying about Sandy Hook cause monetary damages?

[@peterkrug4124]

Brett Anderson I hope you're right. Not just because Alex deserves to truly become bankrupt (which he does), but because an example needs to be made of him. Other potential Alex Jones need to get the message that you can't just tell lies that actually hurt people without severe consequences.🤞

[@bb_arcadia5752]

@@scoop2448 then why did they just break right through that number?

[@theprivatepile]

Alex Jones paved the way for these two guys

[@philipdillon83]

Bruh what?

[@thequackpackattack9250]

@@philipdillon83 internet political podcast hosts. Alex Jones was one of the 1st. Is what I think he was getting at. Love him or hate him he had a vision and made it a reality:/

[@philipdillon83]

@@thequackpackattack9250 Im not ginna give him credit for that. Depends on the vision that he made reality. Alex jones vision is a rediculous clownshow that has a measurably negative impact on the world.

[@thequackpackattack9250]

@@philipdillon83 oh for sure the guys fucked lol. But he was the 1st independent/alternative news media that gained traction. Too bad he used his power for bullshit. Now he gonna pay. Might be the final nail in the infowar cofin.

[@theprivatepile]

It doesn't matter if you don't give him credit. He was the first and arguably greatest to ever do it . Put some respect on that man's name !

[@lesliepetty8210]

Oh my! I know this is a serious conversation, but the cat licking itself? That’s awesome!

[@Ianpact]

Thank you, Kyle and friends.

[@SmartDave60]

Alex Jones knows he’s lying. He talks about gay frogs.

[@stylis666]

I love these discussions about how much we can reasonably and legally hold anyone responsible in any given situation, especially when someone only indirectly causes danger or harm to someone. I count defamation and harassment under both danger and harm in that sentence, otherwise I'd be writing an essay on all the nuances and different contexts, again.

[@JCosta83]

I assume you’re going to do a video on the “defense files emergency motion” video! 🤣 I sure hope so! That was pure comedy gold and I would love to hear your take…

[@lawsonj39]

Jones knowingly lied--that's not negligent, it's deliberate--and people suffered damages as a result. Case closed.

[@stevesmith7839]

What is the monetary amount of the damage?

[@Noname-hs5lx]

This

[@podunk_woman]

Kudos to the cat licking itself during an Alex Jones piece

[@lindaclemons5735]

Nobody was suppressing Alex Jones freedom of speech,he slandered these families for years using his freedom to do so, now he's being held responsible for the physical and psychological damage that added to the family's grief.

[@adlucem9845]

He me too ed sandy hook a handful of times years ago. Like 2018. Said it was likely or seemed like a false flag. He literally never once mentioned any family members other than saying they seem like crisis actors.

[@-FPIRP.ORG-]

What I want to know is if Joe Rogan is still friends with and defending this fool.

[@rogersmith7396]

Its time the liers and hate mongers face the responsibility for their actions. If all of them get sued into the ground this crap will stop.

[@pogolaugh]

Trump talks out of both sides of his mouth consistently. I don’t think him saying “I’m not talking about the nazis or white supremacist” means much when he’s saying there’s very fine people defending the traitor Robert E Lee’s statue. Who would be defending it other than nazi’s and white supremacist? A few useful idiots? I don’t see leaving this part out as misinformation. That being said I do get the broader point he’s making.

[@Ryuujinv01]

"The statue that was not put in place after the civil war, but during the Jim Crowe era specifically to perform the same function as a scare crow, and send a message to black people that they aren't welcome here."

[@beeinthehive]

He gets nearly a million dollars a day from the sales of his fake herbs and crap, so 4 millions is just 4 days worth of his "earnings".

[@ThatFire9oNe6]

Seculartalk hasn't been popping up on my algorithm anymore. I had to manually look for his newer videos.

[@evansuarez5432]

If the Covington kid got awarded 200M + 800M from WaPo and CNN then getting that 120M from Alex is actually pretty tame considering these families actually suffered real life consequences.

[@Rowsy91]

that kid had real consequences too cmon now

[@evansuarez5432]

@@Rowsy91 like what? If he did, it wasn’t as severe and long lasting as these families

[@flashthompson6566]

​@@Rowsy91 did anybody shoot up his house? shoot up his car?

[@steven21736]

Wasn't that what was claimed, with the actual amount being whatever the private settlement agreement was (probably a lot less)?

[@Coconut-219]

"Crimes are only okay when our party does it" Don't worry, there's 20+ more media companies about to have their pants sued off.

[@mg2779]

Yes to freedom of speech, no to freedumb of speech.

[@The_universal_cynic]

I think the term that you're looking for is freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

[@Nikkerman]

4.5 million seemed fair, 45 million is trying to ruin him forever.

[@bigvaxmeanie925]

The 45 million is to send a message to anyone who thinks they can profit by painting targets on people's back by promoting lies about them

[@mommal209]

Good

[@lukelee7967]

Can't wait for the next episode of Knowledge Fight

[@jeremyohodge4184]

Never knew Kyle was interviewing Anthony Fantano!

[@yerstruly659]

Mike Lindell's thinking "o fudge" "cheese and rice" etc

[@deathgodbob]

They deserve more money than that.

[@lovefist86]

Over 20 million more than he's worth. Hope they charge all the psychos who harassed the parents.

[@carnavalentertainment1650]

Me when I see the recent guests on Krystal Kyle & Friends: "Who are you people!?" -J

[@room9podcast]

is anybody else talking about the cat going down on itself 1:30 in...

[@nickmcdonald2808]

Did anybody else not hear anything after the cat?

[@muchograndeyolatengo]

You don't need a ministry of truth, you just need to get public service news back. Coming from a country with quality public service tv, watching Fox, CNN and MSNBC is a surreal experience. Almost like an Orwellian nightmare. As it turns out journalistic integrity is difficult to protect when there's money interests at play and when the public has a bias towards sensationalism. If public education is considered an important pillar in democracy, I don't understand why public news stopped being a thing.

[@Entropian2012]

This is why I only listen to youtube reporters or bitchute. I rarely watch cable news.

[@Thezuule1]

Far cry from that initial number..

[@SoulfoodPogo]

This is just compensatory damages. The trial is still going on for the amount in punitive damages.

[@MrNufzed]

The world is a little better place this morning.

[@Kpictures_NYC]

He incited death threats to these families, he encouraged people to seek these families out and they had to move due to the harassment so clearly he would be found guilty criminally there is a very strong case. Just like you can’t call out “fire” in a theater you can’t encourage people to harass people. Alex wasn’t stupid, he knew what he was doing.

[@Entropian2012]

No, he did not lol he never asked his listeners to do anything illegal he at worst said they were lying/crisis actors. If he would have called for violence he would have had criminal charges and would be doing jail time. On top of the 50 Million dollars, he has to pay.

[@markpostgate2551]

As a thought experiment, we know that Liberace sued for defamation when certain journalists reported that he was homosexual, but would those same journalists be responsible for vandalism to his property by people who objected to his lifestyle. Is the journalist responsible for the vandalism? I know many people's first response will be that's a false equivalence; Liberace probably was gay so it wouldn't have been a lie, and secondly the vandalism response is inappropriate because it requires the perpetrators to be homophobic, whereas the journalist (for all we know) might not be homophobic, he might be the opposite - in the seventies gay rights activists did sometimes out celebrities to expose the normality of homosexuality - if you expose prevalence you also expose normality, right, because what is commonplace must also be normal and what is normal must at least be forgivable, and that could feasibly be the rationale of the journalist. To which I will say I know it's not equivalent, but it is on the spectrum of the question of degree to which the imparter of information is responsible for the actions taken by others based off of that information. Is it incitement merely to say Liberace is gay? Is it only incitement if it's untrue? Liberace did sue for defamation because he lost work; he did not sue those who wouldn't hire him, but I question the logic of shooting the messenger rather than those acting upon the message, or for that matter, believing the message. Why are we not all responsible for being skeptical about everything we read and hear via journalists and politicians and advertisers? Surely the problem is certitude; the harassment was done because the harassers were certain. A truth tsar raises levels of certitude. It just raises them in the direction the mainstream would like.

[@adlucem9845]

The death threats brought up were accusations and never actually proven nor is Alex Jones or anybody responsible for someone else's behavior. You'd have a case if Jones said to go attack those people. But he did not.

[@markpostgate2551]

@@adlucem9845 I think one day those who cheer now will learn to regret the precedents set here.

[@PeterAct2]

Some of these cavalier views we are hearing about no longer permitting people to publish untruths does worry me. Aside from empowering some body or individual to determine what constitutes truth (which would be an extreme concentration of power that is certain to corrupt), it’s fundamentally distrustful of individuals to check sources and be discerning. Granted, individuals have earned that distrust to a large degree, but I think we are getting a little too casual in our plans to determine what can and cannot be printed or said, which has the potential to take us away from what America is meant to be about.

[@1massboy]

Seems pretty low of a settlement to me. But had the decision was done in Texas I believe. So….

[@SoulfoodPogo]

This is just compensatory damages. The trial is still going on for the amount in punitive damages.

[@wheatandtares9764]

listen to these "liberals" and "progressives" celebrating the fact that a talk show host didnt believe an event, the left wing extremists want him locked up and totally destroyed.

[@CommonerTobias]

Stich is a insightful one and would love to be able to just sit and talk man. This whole video is great good chat guys.

[@johnblackman9720]

Am I supposed to just know who the guests are without being introduced? Maybe their names and bios are in the notes but, damn, that's a lot of notes to just find that info.

[@aicram62]

Totally distracted by the cat. Am I right?

[@5PctJuice]

Your prediction was still roughly correct after punitive damages were added. Total came just shy of 50

[@Anthropomorphic]

Regarding intent, my understanding is that the criteria for defamation vary depending on whether the person claiming to have been defamed is a public figure or private citizen. If it's the former, you have to prove that the statement in question was intentionally false, but if it's the latter you only have to prove that the statement was made with a sufficient disregard for verifying whether or not it was true. In this case, it's the latter. Interviews done with Infowars staff in relation to the lawsuits have shown that they routinely do little to no research at all. I'm sure it's often the case that they're just biased in favor of a particular worldview, and thus susceptible to evidence that confirms that worldview, but according to themselves it's often simply a matter of them not looking for evidence at all, because they don't think that's their job. In their eyes, much of their "reporting" is just opinion-based punditry, meaning it doesn't necessarily have to involve a lot of research. Other times, it's a matter of ineptitude, thinking that seeing something on *both* 4chan *and* Reddit means that they've got a good idea of where the average American's mind is at.

[@VermontJayson]

Omg these two can’t answer a question

[@troygreen7990]

I too am confounded with solving a solution to inforcing objective news reporting versus subjective talk show blab, blab, blab.

[@andrewlanegordon2996]

What the cat doin???!!!

[@mtperute269]

You're not allowed to knowingly falsely yell out "bomb" in a building. The reason is because it's legally seen as it can cause harm to the public. So logically speaking if you repeatedly make false claims on your platform and people get hurt it seems like you should be charged under the same logic.

[@GordieKat]

I don't think a universal framework works for situations involving freedom of expression.

[@duncdunc76]

I think you guys are discussing and just proved the purpose of the Justice system and what sueing is all about. Basically if a person or group of people feel seriously wronged then they can take their case to the justice system and it can be heard and judged by a jury.

[@electrified0]

Yep. And civil court exists exactly for this reason - you can hurt other people without breaking the law, so it exists to infer liability. Even if you accidentally hurt someone, you are still liable for the damages if it was your fault. No one ever questions "is accidentally hurting someone illegal now" because it's pretty obvious that's not how anything works, but get speech involved and people lose the ability to think rationally.

[@gabrielsatter]

Wait. That's like 47 cents to that guy? He can stop his bankruptcy proceedings and just dig out the couch change for that.

[@thenightingale7405]

Not sure how this matters. You don't get a higher punishment because you make more.

[@gabrielsatter]

@@thenightingale7405 Yes. You do. And he is actually paying 45 million besides this. I thought that sounded low.

[@demetriusperminter8419]

They were forced to move multiple times that's damages

[@ChrisSudlik]

Walkable cities is the context that destroys drunk driving. High stakes relationships that matter to the participants are the strong basis for discussion that make for good discussion/debate. That means public spaces, co-ops, etc. Instead of car centric suburbs

[@SpinoRexy733]

Are You trying to argue that cars should be outlawed because of drunk drivers? If so that's insane and ridiculous, why should law abiding citizens be punished collectively for the bad deeds of a few bad apples? And have their rights/privileges restricted/removed because of said bad apples?

[@ChrisSudlik]

@@SpinoRexy733 What? Having walkable cities doesn't mean banning cars, it means making it *possible* and *safe* and *legally allowed* to have places to walk to in your community. Decent sidewalks, separated bike paths, I just want it to be possible to walk or bike somewhere without a few near death experiences every single time.

[@SpinoRexy733]

@@ChrisSudlik Oh I see, nevermind then, I was misinterpreting what you meant.

[@paulswabek173]

THANK GOD THIS ONE WAS HIGHER THA 4.1 MILLION. I HOPE HE BECOMES HOMELESS AND REALLY SEES THE REAL CONSPIRACYS AGAINST WORKING CLASS AND LOWER CLASS PEOPLE.

[@ZiplineShazam]

1:21-1:25 (Oh the Irony) . . . "I'm uncomfortable. . .I'm uncomfortable with the situation" . . .as we watch the cat lick it's nether regions in the background.

[@sorooshusa]

The best part of this video is the kitty 😺 in the background.

[@TangoNevada]

Ignorance of a law is not supposed to be a legal defense against breaking it.

[@ttidforever7416]

Yeah, so it went from 4 mil to FORTY NINE million!? I'm glad to see it! This dude can have a platform, but it doesn't mean in the court of public opinion he shouldn't be raked over the coals. Jones attacked these parents along with his minions while they were suffering through something no parent should ever go through, and for what; a few clicks. Wow! He got what he deserved and not one person should feel bad for him. Great content Kyle!

[@Berat-zk7uw]

Texas has caps on damages you can be forced to pay so the big numbers are all for show

[@Rhodair]

I'm glad to see it but also messed up to think that's only like 2 months of work for Alex Jones

[@sebastianaminoff9703]

Please cover the inflation reduction act!

[@robinvik1]

And this is just the first trial, with three more coming!

[@natedaug1]

Good discussion.

[@luismurillo5855]

Once Kyle joined Adam and Stitch, the collective IQ went into triple digits

[@MrChaosi]

i see what you did there

[@mozuesolympian2988]

Only 4? what!

[@stephenwilliamsjr]

hey Kyle, Not loving this misleading headline. I bounced about 4 or 5 minutes of that dude saying nothing but words.

[@AnonymousTreeFrog]

I literally discovered Adam and sitch a week ago and they are suddenly appearing everywhere

[@juanvelasquez1167]

Is that true?

[@LGMDarkQuasar-]

It is up to the individual to figure out what the truth is for them. All we can do is provide as must information/ evidence. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want your help. We need a stronger checks and balances, one that is focus on individuals who have lots of power within the government.

[@Autists-Guide]

The question is over a) Accountable vs. b) Responsible. See RACI model for definitions.

[@keiththoma2559]

Negligence of this kind is like what the supreme court said about hardcore pornography . You can’t easily define it but you know it when you see it.

[@daborshy4089]

Was it initially reported as $4 million? I could swear I read $4 mil somewhere

[@RobertSmith-gx3mi]

$4 million in compensatory damages, the 49 million is punitive damages

[@rosesmith6925]

AND MORE TO COME. GOTTA LEAVE SOME FOR THE OTHERS. LIFE IS GOOD!!

[@Taunocturna]

The question boils down to when should someone be responsible for the actions of their audience. If your book influences some to shoot John Lennon. Is the author responsible? If you're spreading covid misinformation and the actions or this case inaction indirectly leads to their death are you responsible for that? There have been dozens and dozens of cases of a online personalities publicly air their grievances about some else and their audience harasses them and their audience as a result. When does the threshold turn from suggestion to incitement?

[@vivalaleta]

He lied about dead children being fake a million times. That deserves punishment in itself.

[@Taunocturna]

@@vivalaleta And by that same standard holocaust deniers deserves punishment too.

[@michaeldiekmann6494]

One million to every family, that would be fair.

[@evansuarez5432]

That’s peanuts. Each family needs at least 30M and that’s being generous

[@july9566]

All fun and games till that money gets involved ... Alex is gonna feel this .

[@MikeGodetteMusic]

This guy sounds like he’s talking at 75% speed

[@stephengold7196]

Hard to listen when cat is nose deep in crotch in the background 😂 (1:13)

[@amaasiedu1487]

It's cat.

[@cambridgeanalytico9201]

“Pick a number bitch”

[@j.s.669]

Can unsee that cat.....

[@captain_context9991]

"Oooh, but TRUTH in media, right.... Who is to say what is relaly "TRUTH" and what isnt, right" America has just lost itself. America has lost the battle for what is and isnt real. America is in an existential crisis. A crisis of intellect.

[@annarboriter]

I'm picking up freshman college dorm vibes from this discussion. "but what is truth?"

[@uncomfortabletruth5915]

It’s elementary. Truth is relative.

[@a.r11384]

I wish you would wear headphones. It’s so distracting when people cut each other off :( especially since i am mostly listening not watching

[@johnwesley5119]

I’m hoping this works to end stochastic terrorism.

[@kl9809]

I guess if these guys had their homes shot at and had to move 10 times they would take a stronger stance. No one should have to go through this much pain after losing their child.

[@Darke_Exelbirth]

The more I see it discussed, the more "intent" feels like a bad basis for judging wrongdoing. At most, it should be a mitigating factor, not the basis on whether or not you acted criminally. What if we applied proving intent to everything? "Oh, I killed the teacher who I had political disagreements with because my intention was to save kids from p3dos, I shouldn't be given a murder charge for doing the right thing." Just an example of how this proving intent thing doesn't really work outside of the whole slander/defamation stuff, and makes me rethink it being the basis of proof for those two things. At the same time, I understand its purpose for protecting journalism, in a way. But if journalism wasn't so opinion-based these days, would that even be necessary? If it was just saying the facts as they were, and you prove you stated the facts as they were, you don't have any intentions there. It's when you opinionate that intentions arise.

[@alexsmith2745]

My understanding of u.s. criminal law is that whether or not intent matters is explicitly written into those laws

[@thajarin]

The truth is what the facts are. WTF else would it be?