Editing Mistakes for Landscape Photographers

[@Auroralover9797]

Hey Alex. I found you via Nigel Danson's video. I know this is a year old, so you probably won't see this comment. But I do want to say you are awesome. I love your work and have been obsessed with your processing videos. They are very helpful, so thank you.

[@wellsyboy]

Finally found someone with a similar attitude to "fancy" processing tricks and effects - love it!!!

[@paulwarrilow4103]

Really helpful, Alex - especially with the halo effect. It's improved my understanding of how this occurs and therefore how to avoid it. With thanks!

[@smirz1234]

Alex, I’ve been following you for over a year but since Covid, your editing videos have made quite an impression. Since the viewing I look back at some of my “favourite” photos and wish I had watched your edits sooner. So many of those I follow have been teaching color grading etc., and now it all looks overdone to me. So love your cropping and white balance videos as well as the simple editing. Than you!

[@alexnail]

That's my pleasure, I feel the same way about modern processing trends, but that seems to be the way things are going!

[@grumpyparrotphotography]

Thanks very much for this Alex. These two videos have really enhanced my understanding of white balance and it's impact on the image.

[@alexnail]

My pleasure, thanks for commenting!

[@grumpyparrotphotography]

@@alexnail I saw you over on Nigel Danson's channel earlier today and really liked some of the things you were saying about white balance, ... so had to check out your channel. Wasn't disappointed.

[@alexnail]

@@grumpyparrotphotography thanks!

[@andrewpage9159]

Great stuff, Alex. Some really useful stuff there and I particularly liked the last segment in keeping the sun naturally bright. Very enjoyable to watch, instructive and clearly explained. Thank you!

[@alexnail]

No worries Andy, glad you found it helpful

[@bobmcdonald4834]

Brilliant Alex. I hope I learned some of these lessons and look fwd to trying to apply them! I do enjoy your style - informative and clear. Thank you for sharing. Much appreciated 😊

[@alexnail]

Awesome that you found the video helpful. Thanks for the compliment too!

[@dougderksen7248]

Hi Alex. I just found your channel. Consequently a little behind on watching them. I find your educational videos very helpful. I like your approach to honouring the colours in nature while using LR to appropriately process the images. Also like your photo safari videos. They are inspiring.

[@tomdriftwood3674]

Excellent video as always. I‘m wondering what your prefered method is with the most actual Lightroom version: do you use sky selection combined with a linear gradient?

[@AnomandarisPurake]

Decided to check your channel out after the interview with Dave Morrow. This is a great video, very easy to understand and follow. Definitely made me admit that i use the presence brushes too much. It was nice to have the alternate, "correct" way to address these issues. Thanks!

[@keithpinn152]

Thanks Alex for creating and sharing this video. There was a great deal of information contained and regretfully I see my editing mistakes occurring as well. Cheers, Keith

[@alexnail]

Yeah these are pretty common errors! Fortunately none of them are particularly major :)

[@howardrankin7119]

Very tasteful, authentic editing techniques. Thank you Alex

[@alexnail]

My pleasure Howards, glad you found it helpful.

[@dominiclester3232]

Thanks Alex! You have some strong views, but they are backed up with some classy judgement. Amusingly, I avoid the contrast in the same way that you avoid the clarity...I laughed when you said the saturation was too strong, that would be considered mild on Instagram. Keep up the good work and the videos please.

[@MegaDwilkinson]

Excellent advice, and examples, as usual - many thanks Alex

[@alexnail]

Glad it was helpful David!

[@andreah1306]

Helpful video Alex. ”The black mountains” is a typical mistake I used to make and I’ve been aware of it lately 😃 I’ll definitely avoid that from now on

[@alexnail]

Glad you found it helpful Andrea :)

[@lorraineparramore5512]

Great timing Alex! The dark mountain solution just what I needed. Works really well even with mono conversations I'm doing currently for camera club competition. Thank you for spending the time and passing on your thoughts. One of the very few benefits of lockdown as you'd normally be in the field I guess! I'd like to add my request for your views on sharpening. Especially LR v PS, or combination?

[@alexnail]

Glad you found this so helpful Lorraine - I’ve just done a video on sharpening!

[@ts76751]

One thing I noticed you haven’t mentioned and I think it helps a lot with black mountains, is with the grad filter, you can apply the change to the brighter parts using range mask in Lightroom so the mountains would not get the darkening effect but the sky only. My 2 cents

[@alexnail]

Yes this was an oversight so I created a second video. One of the reasons I don’t use it is I find it doesn’t work very well for most of the scenarios I try it in. I actually use the same examples in that second video and find that it doesn’t work, but I do find a scene at the end of the video where it works well. You basically need to make sure that there is no tonal overlap between the area you are trying to change and the area you are trying to protect. I think that many people simply won’t notice the problems they are introducing with this approach because they aren’t immediately obvious, but if you do understand those problems it can become a useful part of your workflow (it just isn’t the approach I would personally recommend to beginners)

[@bennig3237]

Dave Morrow's recent shout-out brought me here. I really like your explanation and it is really easy to understand because of how you put emphasis on things. Small-scaled editing tips shown on multiple examples makes it really easy to get und to re-apply, even for Darktable users like me. Subscribed.

[@alexnail]

Thanks. That was really kind of Dave! Yes most of these Lightroom competitors now have very similar controls so if you understand the concept there is a direct read across. Really glad you found it helpful!

[@bertraml292]

Thanks Alex. It was helpful and I learned something new. As always: good explanation.

[@alexnail]

Thanks Bertram, glad you found it useful

[@NigelDownes-fi2pk]

Nice, and a useful reminder. Thanks Alex.

[@alexnail]

My pleasure Nigel :)

[@dianevose9655]

Another very useful and helpful vlog Alex. Definitely going to have a rethink on using the orton effect in future on my woodland images, I do use it rather sparingly but might pull back even further now!

[@alexnail]

If you use it subtly it might give a hint of that atmosphere without being noticeable! But it is quiet a personal thing, I don’t like it but some people love it!

[@BimblesWithACamera]

Be interesting to see you using the grad tool with colour/luminance masks which certainly would have worked with that first one and possibly the second one too .. I still appreciate the approach of digital blending, but I still can't shake that comment from Joe Cornish when he said the reason he loves to use grads is that he wants to see his vision in the field .. and while I like the flexibility of blending, especially in complex scenes, I really do miss not seeing the final vision in the field ... Of course give it a few years and companies will hopefully bring more advanced software in-camera allowing for, at the very least, a closer exposure-blended final image on the back of the camera .. I think for about 10 years now I've been waiting for the ability to paint grads on the back of the camera which would be imprinted on the RAW file in relation to the exposure settings ...

[@alexnail]

Hi Nigel, thanks for the comment. Yeah there are plenty of good personal reasons why people like to use grads and I certainly wouldn’t say that any of those reasons are invalid. However I do think landscape photographers are poor at explaining to beginners that they aren’t needed and can easily harm a shot. That’s often because ‘ambassadors’ are paid to promote and sell these filters. Being able to see your vision in the field is great of course, but at the same time Joe did rather brilliantly with film which had none of the feedback of digital. The luminance mask does work, but sometimes I’ve had problems using it because it can flatten shadow detail, introduce halos and/or make the transition look a bit weird. One of the reasons I like the approach I use here is it rarely if ever introduces issues. However when used carefully the luminance masks in Lightroom are an excellent tool, I just prefer to go into photoshop for really specific stuff like that.

[@JamesLanePhoto]

Thanks Alex, I really enjoy these videos. Perhaps one day you might do some videos on printing accurate colours? I’d find that very interesting!

[@alexnail]

Hey James, because that’s maybe a bit more niche (probably 5% or less of people print) I might tackle that sort of thing another time. But for me the process is pretty simple - sRGB everything, calibrated screen, calibrated printer with paper, perceptual colour conversion.

[@JamesLanePhoto]

@@alexnail Thanks for the tips! Yes I suppose you’re right, which is a shame. For me photography feels incomplete unless I can print an image myself. I’m not trying to be elitist with that stance, but it is something I can’t imagine not doing. Either way, I look forward to your future videos :)

[@alexnail]

@@JamesLanePhoto yeah I agree, although I have to say I can’t afford to print all my work, but certainly I love printing my best shots :)

[@JamesLanePhoto]

@@alexnail Well yes, that’s what I meant. Certainly don’t print everything!

[@jackgamble3125]

Thanks Alex for sharing your insights. I have learned so much from the two white balance and this latest video. I have been editing in LR for 6 years and thought I was Ok'ish, I'm not. Please keep focussing on the basics. It would seem from what I've seen that if the image is properly captured, which I am able to do without any problem, the editing required is less, instead of more. All the videos I've watched in the past seem to want to create the impression that you need deep and extensive knowledge and skill in LR & PS in order to produce a good end result

[@alexnail]

Hi Jack! Actually what you need is a deep and extensive knowledge of light/colour/contrast etc to the point that you can see what needs doing. Then if you understand what the tools do and how they work it becomes relatively easy. If someone said to me now: you’re only allowed 10 minutes per image and you’re only allowed Lightroom I don’t think there would be any meaningful difference in my edits. So yeah, I’m hoping to keep the editing tools side of things fairly simple whilst including more complex subjects on the ‘understanding’ side.

[@jackgamble3125]

@@alexnail yes, that really makes perfect sense and such detail and insight will be most welcome. I look forward to it!

[@marona23]

Thanks Alex, I've been guilty of the grey sun in the past, but have come across to your school of thinking blown highlights need to look natural. Another great video although I did skip over the Orton bit.

[@alexnail]

That's okay, it was only two minutes long and said "I don't do it, here's why!". And your in good company on the grey suns side of things there are actually some pretty famous landscape photographers with images that still show this little error!

[@jondyer1687]

Thank you for this. It is always a pleasure to see your work and a taste of your process. I would love to get a better understanding of how to work a landscape / mountain scape into monochrome edit. I feel like there are a lot of KZbin tutorials out there that fail to address monochrome complexity and I have been reluctant to process my own images into monochrome due to a lack of understanding about how to get the most out of a scene without resorting to plug-ins like the Nik collection. Any advice would be overwhelmingly appreciated.

[@alexnail]

Thanks Jon. I think on the monochrome side one issue is that there aren’t many black and white outdoor photographers at all so that kind of specialist understanding is somewhat missing. Whilst I’ve dabbled in black and white and feel confident with how I want things to look, I like to talk from a position of knowledge, and I’m not sure that I could do that in any sort of meaningful way with Black and White!

[@jondyer1687]

@@alexnail Totally understandable. Thank you for taking the time to get back to me.

[@dobleapiria]

Very useful videos Alex. I like your vision about editing and photography in general. What I really struggle all the time is the amount of time I spend getting color and tonality right so then the same picture represented on different displays such phones and computers it looks way off what I intended. It's so frustrating and annoying... Keep up with your videos!! Cheers

[@alexnail]

No problem. To be honest you should be able to get *fairly* consistent colour across *most* devices as long as you are working in sRGB (or really knowing how to use different colour spaces) and you have a calibrated monitor. Apple decides in particularly do a good job out of the box

[@dobleapiria]

@@alexnail Do you perform your edits at full monitor brightness? thanks for your answers!

[@alexnail]

@@dobleapiria no, I calibrate my monitor to a brightness level that allows me to see a full tonal range accurately. If you push monitors to their extremes they generally become less accurate.

[@richardwood6121]

Thanks Alex, really enjoying the recent editing videos and learning some really helpful stuff. I was going to ask about (not) using luminance masking but I notice you've already answered that one. I've had some good results refining the masks by using the Alt key along with the Smoothness slider, any thoughts on that? If I could ask a question on white balance - I followed your advice on setting the WB in camera to 5550 and already seeing an improvement in out of camera images. When I import them into LR the WB is changed to 5300. Easily fixed but is there some setting or other in LR that's causing this? I discovered your channel through your NW Highlands vlogs but your editing videos are first class. Thanks for the content, hugely appreciated.

[@alexnail]

On the Lightroom luminance masking...I guess the crux of it is that if I need to do more advanced work I’ll just do it in photoshop. I’ve played with the luminance masks but I’ve found if you’re not careful they bring their own problems. I’m not sure why the white balance would change in Lightroom (it shouldn’t to my knowledge) but if you want to set the white balance on import then a made a video explaining how to do just that (two videos ago)

[@b3arodactyl]

Why not use the lightroom sky masking feature? Would you say using a gradient that can slightly overshoot the sky and affect the mountain is a desirable effect to make it blend in better? I would think intersecting the two gradients in the first image with a sky mask would produce more believable results, but I can see the appeal of doing more of a dodge and burn approach than strictly changing the sky only. For the grey sun example isn't the problem mainly in adjusting the whites, as it changes the white point to be grey? Your final edit looks somewhat oversaturated for my tastes as well but I can see you're just trying to show a comparison.

[@alexnail]

Look at the date of this video and the Lightroom upgrade dates and you can answer the first question (to a degree). Yes a subtle soft gradient does help these changes blend in better. My current process is to more or less split the desired change 50:50 between a sky selection and a soft gradient.

[@matheusborcarte]

Amazing video!!

[@snthomasphotography]

Thanks for doing these videos Alex. Really enjoying them. I'd like to hear your take on sharpening in a future video if that's possible. Just watched one of your old ones but you didn't really cover your own process - it was more a critique of someone else's work.

[@alexnail]

Hi Steve, glad you’re finding these helpful. You’re the second person to request sharpening so I guess that’s next!

[@jbairdexp]

Top tips there Alex. That's the interesting thing about post processing, there is normally more than one way to achieve a result so I'm always keen to see how other people approach things. I use luminance filters in LR to avoid "black mountains". I'd be interested to hear if you have looked at this approach and if you find it effective. I'd never consider adopting your approach but it's something I will be trying for sure. :-)

[@alexnail]

Hi Julian - yeah there are so many people suggesting the luminance masking but there are massive problems with that approach. Like any tool if you have a really keen eye then it can be useful, but I just double checked with both the examples here and there is just no way I would use Lightroom luminance masking for either example. Since it’s complex to explain in a comment I might do a quick video.

[@jbairdexp]

@@alexnail That is really interesting to hear. I would like to see that video. Would be good to know where you see some of the limitations or problems that it might introduce so I can spot them in my own work. Always new things to learn! :-)

[@alexnail]

@@jbairdexp recorded this afternoon, I’ll probably put it live tomorrow or the day after.

[@jbairdexp]

@@alexnail Looking forward to it! :-)

[@dtgphoto]

Hi Alex - love the videos and your informative style. Interesting that you don't use the O key for seeing the adjustment brush overlay to see which areas you have brushed or for the gradient tool. It is also really useful in the first example to use the erase brush when you have unintended effects like the first image top right hand mountain. Great stuff though and keep it up !

[@alexnail]

Thanks Duncan, I must admit I rarely need to look at exactly where the masks are so I just didn’t know about the ‘O’ key, so that’s handy, thank you. Generally when you have unintended effects you can’t just erase the mask because you end up with halos although you might *appear* to have resolved the issue. This really depends how particular you are about artefacts and strong the correction is in the first place.

[@deryckstorey1465]

Hi Alex, thanks for spending the time doing these vlogs which I'm finding very informative and helpful. If I could ask as to why you don't use the luminance slider in the range mask feature?

[@alexnail]

Thanks Deryck. Luminance masking in Lightroom can be a really useful helping hand if you have tree branches sticking into the sky for example, but I usually find it only helps and doesn’t quite solve the problem. Sepcifically, since it doesnt actually identify the edges perfectly its prone to creating halos. So when I use it I use it carefully and generally only when there is a really high contrast edge. If you can get away without using masking then I think that is the best approach to take, but the masking tools in Lightroom certainly work, and like any tool can be very handy as long as you don’t misuse them!

[@alexnail]

Hi again Deryck, I've made a video in response to your question: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZ2wpZanfJieoJo

[@thevalleywalker]

Another great lesson in editing - one day some of it might stick with me..lol. Just a quick question regrads your comment on the orton *fad*. Today we see a lot of images from pros and hobbyists alike that use luts and colour grading to alter say woodland etc to give them a total different look - what are your thoughts on these kind of edits? Maybe something for future discussion? atb Al

[@alexnail]

Yeah maybe something for the future. I certainly think when those edits are done well they can be evocative of a truth that goes beyond the literal. The thing is there are 10x more images that just have an effect blindly applied, and I do expect that to become dated.

[@Xo1ot1]

Awesome.

[@josephcampisi5401]

I personally like some SLIGHT orton on some of my images, applied selectively, usually on forest scenes. It is easy to overdo it though. The key for me is to do it subtly on select portions of the image.

[@alexnail]

Yeah, it’s a personal thing ultimately and I think people who like to use it will continue to. But people still learning to edit might just start slapping it on as an effect and it often looks a little silly. If it’s done so subtly you can hardly see it, or done locally, then it can do a nice job of softening specular highlights.

[@josephcampisi5401]

Exactly. I definitely see it overdone pretty often though for sure.

[@talukebold6454]

Great video

[@alexnail]

Thanks Taluke

[@geminierica4077]

Why not just use the grad tool for the gradients? Significantly easier than trying to fiddle around with it. And you can play with the sliders and sensitivity on it to fit your vision

[@alexnail]

Hi Gemini, could you explain in more detail what part you are referring to so I can answer your question? Thanks!

[@jasonmordecai8212]

Using the range mask is a useful way of brightening the mountains ⛰and only targeting the luminosity for the dark tones and restricting it from the highlights that way you can make precise local adjustments.

[@alexnail]

Hi Jason, because so many people made this comment I created a second video showing why this doesn’t work with the two examples at the start of this video. Range masks are a useful tool in the specific situation where there is no tonal overlap between the area you are trying to change and the area you are trying to protect. But if you watch that second video there are plenty of scenes where it doesn’t work well. But I agree that like any tool, if you are aware of the pitfalls it can be a useful part of your process and many photographers use it to great effect.

[@NicolasAlexanderOtto]

First! :-P

[@alexnail]

Ha! Still watching those Drakensberg videos hey Alex?

[@NicolasAlexanderOtto]

@@alexnail Pretty much, yes.