Camera Raw and Lightroom are DIFFERENT?! (Oct 24 Update)

[@rolandbogush2594]

Excellent, Matt - I rarely go into ACR as I assume it is essentially almost the same as LR, but you've highlighted some significant differences in this release cycle. So, a big thank you for that!

[@MattKloskowski]

Glad it was helpful!

[@QINGCHARLES]

Ahh.. thank you! I would never have found that hidden AI checkbox without you. I was already happy because of that new AI color profile, which is amazing, and the fact that Denoise was now enabled for S24 photos where it wasn't supported before. Now you've stepped it up even more.

[@TC_Conner]

You're (and I am too) much more forgiving of the resolution after using GF than Blake. He zooms in so much that of course you'll see the different noise patterns. Thanks for this video Matt, excellent tutorial. And the HDR explanation at the end was super helpful!

[@tedmcgee7896]

Matt, forgive me if I missed this in your video. I had a number of distractions. It is possible to use the ACR DeNoise AI tools when coming from LrC as well. If you "Edit In > Open in Photoshop as Smart Object", then double click on the layers thumbnail it will open the smart object in ACR with all new settings available. Of course, you have to make sure they are turned on as well, just as you mentioned. But for Lightroom users, this still works.

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. The Photoshop Filter, or opening Camera Raw in any way that's not originating from the original raw photo, is not opening a raw photo in to Camera Raw. These features work on raw photos only. Thanks!

[@tedmcgee7896]

@@MattKloskowski I wish I could put a screen shot up here. When I double click on the smart object I brought over from Lightroom, it clearly shows I am editing in my native RAW file and those features are there. It works well for me, so I will use it until LR actually incorporates it.

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. Opening as Smart Object in ACR is not the same as Camera Raw filter. Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. But I just can't see that any one of these features is worth that trouble? Other than DeNoise none of them are that good. And I can't see why you'd open your photo from LR to PS to get noise reduction when you can do it in LR.

[@tedmcgee7896]

@@MattKloskowski Thank you for staying with me on this and seeing how it works. The video you did on this technique was great. Thanks again.

[@maximusaugustus6823]

Great video Matt, awesome features.

[@MattKloskowski]

Glad you enjoyed it! But I did post it 26 seconds ago when your comment came in so how did you watch it? ;-) Thanks!

[@sylvestrisstudios]

Doode, video was posted 3 mins ago and it’s 20+ min long. Crawl out from his arse man.

[@MattKloskowski]

Go easy.. he's probably just excited... but I did think it was funny as well :-)

[@maximusaugustus6823]

@@MattKloskowski I am an AI LLM, I see the future instantly 😅

[@maximusaugustus6823]

After updating the app, I have already seen the features, and I am watching your videos to pick up extra tips as we speak.

[@jessicaannes]

I saw various videos pop up yesterday on the new updates. I started to watch one and then thought… nah, I’ll just wait for Matt’s. 😅

[@MattKloskowski]

Thanks! :-)

[@addsy6396]

Exactly

[@addsy6396]

@@MattKloskowskilike she said - “just wait for Matts”

[@zornbtaylor]

Hey Matt, thank you for all your amazing info. I appreciate you. With regard to being "forced" to choose a number prior to running denoise in LR , yes, however you could determine the correct amount from the preview as you slide the number back and forth... this ACR denoise does seem more elegant but it's not as if you were choosing blind...

[@QINGCHARLES]

One more thing, the GenAI tools don't work to remove distractions from the background etc with boudoir or swimsuit shoots, or a lot of fashion shoots with women as it gets caught in the incredibly strict censorship filter.

[@klausnurmi5836]

Great tutorial - again! Thank You.

[@paulbosselait6688]

Thanks Matt. The first time I activated the switch, I missed the note that said the changes would only take place after restarting the host application. So nothing was working. Once I closed Photoshop, then it worked like a charm.

[@paulbosselait6688]

@@joelwexler Did you close Photoshop, Lightroom, Classic, and ACR and then try again?

[@joelwexler]

@@paulbosselait6688 Closing CR didn't close PS. When I did so, it worked. Thanks!

[@paulbosselait6688]

@@joelwexler You're welcome. That is what I had to do also.

[@Imrankhan-kw8pu]

awesome work! nicely explained, thanks a lot sir

[@letsbefrank3]

Even more strange than it being different to Lightroom, is that if you 'Edit In...' Photoshop from Lightroom CC, the Denoise option isn't there when the image comes into PS. You have to actually 'Open' from Photoshop to have the Denoise option appear at all!

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. The Photoshop Filter, or opening Camera Raw in any way that's not originating from the original raw photo, IS NOT opening a raw photo in to Camera Raw. These features work on raw photos only. Thanks!

[@letsbefrank3]

@@MattKloskowski Ah, I see. I didn't know that! But I'm order to save the Denoise setting you'd have to save it as a new file anyway wouldn't you, whether that's a PSD, DNG or whatever, so you still end up with a second file?

[@brightboxstudio]

There’s a lot of confusion around this because of the multiple ways you can send a raw image to Photoshop and edit a raw image in Photoshop. You have to get right both of the things below, not just one or the other. First: In Photoshop, open the raw file using File > Open, or have Lightroom Classic send it to Photoshop as a Smart Object. As long as the raw file has not been converted to RGB pixels, options like Denoise will be available. Second: If you had Lightroom Classic send it to Photoshop as a Smart Object, edit it by double-clicking the Smart Object layer (that’s a shortcut for the command Layer > Smart Objects > Edit Contents) to edit the actual raw data, then you will see options like Denoise. The mistake a lot of people make is instead choosing Filter > Camera Raw Filter, but that applies Camera Raw to the layer and not inside the raw Smart Object itself (an important difference), and so using the Camera Raw filter does *not* treat it as a raw file with full raw options.

[@letsbefrank3]

@@brightboxstudio Thanks for this. Very helpful!

[@MattKloskowski]

Exactly... that's why I can't see why anyone would even bother trying to go to PS first to get the DeNoise feature that way. Makes no sense really.

[@debbiewitt7028]

Hi Matt thanks for explaining all the new updates in LRC, PS and CRaw. Would you now make a video on your workflow with all the “major changes” in these three programs. Thank you

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. I don’t believe they’re “major” changes or that workflow should change at all. Talked about it at the end of this video: mattk.com/can-and-should-you-hack-denoise-in-lightroom-and-camera-raw/

[@stevez6157]

On my Mac, although the ACR denoising is not creating a separate DNG file, it does create a somewhat large acr side car file. The size of that file seems to depend on the complexity of the image.

[@martinlennon4673]

Good stuff Matt … appreciated 👍

[@MrTJCCREATIONS]

The AI features being a low resolution "patch" doesn't seem very noticeable on images from my 20mp camera, but on a 60mp image I might want to start paying attention to how it looks ? I do print>

[@garnieross9958]

Excellent! I'm a LRC guy and am now heading to Adobe to open Camera Raw. Interesting. Is Adobe possibly going to be setting ACR up as it's AI Specialty editor? Well done! Thank You.

[@blakescrossing]

Really interesting and helpful - thank you (from a new subscriber).

[@TerryKontopoulos]

BTW the user interface in "Details" changing if you use Canon's CR2 or Nikon's NEF as I test them with a Sony's ARW...

[@jerrybarton4528]

Am I missing something??? I did the updates on my main system and the laptop, did the tick mark on the AI Tech, and I don't have the Denoise or any of the other sliders showing in the video, help.....

[@BubblesPothowari]

Thank you so much 👍🏿 great insight

[@ImageMaven]

Great tutorial as usual Matt! I haven’t used ACR in years, especially since switching to LR for everything. Does the Noise removal work for jpgs or just raw files? Time to give it another look.

[@mountainhomelodge6324]

Thanks for all the great videos on the new 2024 Adobe line up. Question, with the strong additions to Camera Raw, is there a "process" you think is best...meaning...bring images into Lightroom (my case Classic) do rough edit, then to RAW for image quality, then back to Classic for final touchup, if retouching needed into Photoshop? Thanks Matt

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. That sounds like a hard workflow to me. If you're a LR user, edit in LR and use DeNoise like usual. So you end up with a DNG. Not the end of the world. But there would be no reason to edit in LR, and Camera Raw for the same photo in my opinion. Hope that helps. Thanks!

[@mountainhomelodge6324]

@@MattKloskowski Thanks Matt for clarifying, I'll keep the same workflow, Lightroom, Photoshop as needed. Really appreciate your videos!

[@markcasebeer8273]

@@MattKloskowski If you open a Raw as a smart object in Photoshop and then double-click the photo opens in Camera Raw with the new denoise panel and the other updates. You can also duplicate smart objects and apply different strengths of Denoise to each copy. Mask out the subject with less noise and apply to the background with more reduction. Yes, it creates another file when saved back to Lightroom.

[@MattKloskowski]

I hate to say it but if your photo requires that many layers of noise reduction to look good you've done something very wrong with the photo ;-)

[@markcasebeer8273]

@@MattKloskowski thanks for your thoughtful response. I was merely noting that’s it’s possible to apply different strengths of reduction using smart objects.

[@mstrathmore]

Being able to denoise without making another copy of the photo is gold! I love the denoise tech but jeepers staying on top of all the duplicates was getting me down!

[@HR-wd6cw]

I sort of wonder though if this will at least come to LIghtroom Desktop at some point. For LR Classic I could understand why this might not work (although I don't see why they couldn't use the Virtual Copies in LRC to accomplish the same thing, and maybe they are working on that but as of right now, it doesn't work or they can't figure it out). I mean in a way in LR Desktop and ACR you can only have one copy of a particular RAW photo but in LR Classic you also have virtual copies (which you don't have in LR Desktop or ACR). However for me I did a similar thing, or I would use the preview window in the DeNoise in LRC and set my amount based on that and maybe only a few times did I need to go back in increase it. So the first one is not a huge deal but something that perhaps would be nice to at least have in LR Desktop (as I'm starting to consider using that as it does save me the importing process in LR Classic, but I would also lose some things like VCs and the more detailed organizational tools -- collections/collection sets) in LR Classic. However one thing does make me wonder : if you were to import this file into LR Classic and the XMP file is present, does LR Classic ignore the DeNoising from ACR upon import? Historically LR would (or could) read the XMP file and apply any edits to the image upon import.

[@larsthufvesson9725]

Thanks a lot Matt, this was indeed clarifying. I have always considered LrC being identical to ACR. My worklow is to import raw files into Lightroom classic where I do most of my editing including denoise. This means that I have a lot of DNG-files along with my NEF files .My best photos are imported into Photoshop "open as smart object" in order to see my LrC adjustments. Should I in any way change my workflow? Thanks.

[@Maxoverpower]

ACR features trickle down to Lightroom. We've seen this with HDR

[@BenSussmanpro]

Thanks, great update tutorial! I haven’t tried any HDR myself in LR/ACR but if it’s anything like the iPhone I hate it - hdr photos from the phone hurt my eyes & make me dizzy especially on landscapes, lol.

[@MattKloskowski]

It's nothing like iPhone HDR.

[@joelwexler]

Although I have the newest Camera Raw, the denoise looks like it did before, no live update and you still have to make a dng. Update: I quit Camera Raw, but not Photoshop. Restarting PS did it.

[@alandyer910]

Thanks! There seems to be a major bug in the new DeNoise AI - applying it to the individual segments of a panorama non-destructively causes the panorama to merge together with bizarre unusable results.

[@beeldbarista]

As far as I know this is the first time that there is a difference between ACR and LR. You think these features will be added to LR in future or do you think this is the point where Adobe is now going to make a split in options between ACR/Photoshop and Lightroom? If the latter, its going to be interesting to see how things will be heading towards in the future.

[@MattKloskowski]

It's not the first time, but it's the first time the feature is so noticeable. I'm sure they'll make their way to being on par with each other soon. Remember this is a "technology preview" that you have to turn on. So if you read between the lines, this is a "Beta" feature in Camera Raw.

[@ericpecquerie4868]

Thanks Matt, your friend Blake did not notice any of those differences and posted clueless videos

[@carlosread5887]

Matt, How can I organize the panels in a different order? I mean, I would like the COLOR panel to appear on top of all the others. Is there a way to do this?

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi I think you can right click on or near panels to access a menu that may help.

[@carlosread5887]

@@MattKloskowski Thanks a lot, Matt! I will try that.

[@QINGCHARLES]

Don't forget when using these AI tools, Meta will put an AI banner on your photos on Instagram and Facebook unless you strip the EXIF tags for AI before you upload.

[@lesladbrook4508]

Hi Matt, some of the options in Adobe Camera RAW are "not" currently available in the windows version of ACR version 17.0.0.2043

[@thomascuffari7757]

Another great video, Matt. I did notice something that has me confused. If I open a raw file directly into ACR all the new features are available. However, if I am in LR and do an Edit In on an unedited raw file, the file opens directly into Photoshop and if I go to ACR the new features aren't there. Is that by design and if so, why? Thanks.

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. When you go from LR to PS the photo is no longer a raw photo. The moment you open a photo in to PS it's not longer raw and those features won't be available. You'd have to open a raw file directly in to Camera Raw. Hope that helps.

[@thomascuffari7757]

@@MattKloskowski Of course it's no longer a raw, duh. Captain Obvious here. Thanks for the slap to the back of the head. Hope it gets to LR, though. It would fit better in my work flow. Thanks, again.

[@sono.photos]

Matt does HDR translate to a printed image, if so do I have to print from the raw file or can I export to jpg and print -I usually do make jpgs before I print.

[@MattKloskowski]

Nope. It will only be seen on HDR monitors. Thanks

[@pathankotiya]

For some reason I cant see the Denoise button although I am on ACR17.0. Opened a RAW image and still cant see it.

[@timk8258]

So apparently ACR got all the meaningful improvements… any idea why and if they will eventually be added to LR?

[@MattKloskowski]

I don't, but hopefully soon.

[@stephenmatthews5437]

I am unable to access my colorchecker camera profiles via bridge and LRC since the updates

[@digitalhocuspocus]

Thanks Matt Stupid question here... I dont see the crop tool in ACR V17 Am I missing something?

[@MattKloskowski]

You may have opened the ACR Filter and not a raw photo directly in to ACR. These (and other features) will not work if it's not a raw photo.

[@stephenmatthews5437]

Another update on LRC this morning, still cant access my camera profiles.

[@stkuj]

Cool! I rarely ever use LR, but ACR 95%!... BTW, I think that if a generative expanded image is posted IG will label it "AI" - not sure about "remove/erase"

[@euripedesbrasil3704]

Very impressive PS new features

[@nickjewett3560]

I need a workflow from Lightroom please. I Use Lightroom as my catalog. How do you go from Lightroom to camera raw? If I use Edit In Photoshop I can use Camera Raw but no Deniose. If I drag the image from Lightroom Library to the Photoshop AP in the Dock then I get Camera Raw with Denise but then have to manually import the saved result.

[@HawaiianVirtualTours]

Thank you Matt! I am only seeing COLOR and MONOCHROME under my profile settings. Am I missing something?

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. It's Most likely not a raw file if that's what you see.

[@HawaiianVirtualTours]

@@MattKloskowski thank you! You are correct! I’m working on PSD files.

[@ann03all]

The new denoise feature does not work if you have a file open in photoshop and use the camera raw filter,. I only seems to work when you open a file and it goes straight to Camera raw.

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. That is correct. DeNoise has never worked if you opened the photo in the Camera Raw filter. It has always required the photo to be the original raw. Thanks.

[@1duesy]

What can you do in Camera Raw that you can't do in Lightroom, and can the two programs sync editing results?

[@jpdj2715]

LrC , a day later, gets updated to level 14.0.1 for "critical updates"

[@jadie1234a]

While the masking in ACR is great, the masks seem too harsh.I wish I had a way to feather the mask.

[@MrTJCCREATIONS]

In my limited testing... it would appear that if going into Photoshop from Lightroom (without any denoise) that the AI denoise feature is not available in the Camera Raw Filter. I only can get it if I take a raw image into Photoshop some other way. What am I missing or is this how it works?

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. DeNoise has always required working on the original raw photo. When you Go from LR to PS, it is no longer a raw photo. Thanks

[@sb1493]

I was thinking of purchasing an HDR-compatible monitor when I replace this one. However, if I send this .jpg finished picture to anyone and they can't see it, what's the point? Also, does it make any difference when I go to print this picture on a consumer printer? Would it be better to wait to even bother to jump into this if the majority of people, including me can only see this difference with a high-end HD monitor? Great tutorial as usual. Very informative and easy to follow. Great job!

[@alexjoxcs]

I still think it’s better to share HDR files in JXL to share, with proper 10-bit support. But in jpg, they can still see the difference; they just need to have a screen capable of showing it, and latest software, as it’s a very new standard. Print it will never ever make any difference, consumer or pro printer. Basis of HDR is difference brightness level across the picture, to the point where lights can “blind” you. It will stay a screen only thing.

[@aquarioamico6604]

What is the difference between the D-noise tool and just adjusting the Luminance slider manually to manage noise?

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. DeNoise is the more modern and recent way to remove noise. Luminance is older and doesn't work as well. Thanks.

[@KevTCC]

The new features are not showing in Camera RAW 17 for me. I even selected show AI features. No adaptive profile can be found...

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. Make sure you’re opening a raw file directly in to ACR. If that doesn’t help you’d contact Adobe.

[@saeedahmad3748]

Hi Matt, my Lr desktop is messed up after new update. No one is helping me about that.

[@MrDan1943]

the DeNoise makes a huge file. Mine seem to be about ten times the DNG file in LR. So this feature has no benefit for me. If I want better Denise I will use Topaz Photo AI and save the file as a tiff in LR.

[@jackprice7828]

The denoise feature shows grayed out and I am getting triangle warning saying my DNG file is not compatible. I have tried this with several raw files and same thing.

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. You're not using a full resolution raw/dng file if you get that. Try doing a google search on your error and you should get some more info if you need a deeper explanation.

[@tomwear4613]

If you want to do something like remove that tree, why wouldn't you just use the Remove tool in Photoshop? You don't have the mismatched resolution problem.

[@Daniel-qg4mf]

Amazing, thank you for the video. I have camera raw 17.0 and I can't find "Enable & Expand" can anyone help?

[@MattKloskowski]

Maybe give this a read: mattk.com/adobe-2024-fall-update-photoshop-and-lightroom-faqs/

[@EarlBlake]

How do you open Camera raw?

[@drpepa09]

Via Photoshop filters…camera raw filter ..Maybe convert layer to smart object before .. also use the keyboard shortcut Shift + Control + A to open the Camera Raw filter👍

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. When you open a raw photo in PS it will automatically open. The comment above is using it as a filter in which case most of those features I showed won’t be there as they require a raw photo.

[@epiphini]

I have turned on new AI Features but there is no denoise. Only sharpening. Everything is updated and on PC.

[@robigerovasilisphotography]

Dumb question where is Camera Raw available?

[@MattKloskowski]

Hi. In Photoshop go to FILE > OPEN and choose a raw file. Remember, not everyone uses Lightroom so Photoshop also has the same raw editor (for the most part).

[@robigerovasilisphotography]

@@MattKloskowski ok so as part of my Lightroom plan I don’t get Photoshop so that’s probably why I haven’t seen it. Thanks for that. I was puzzled because I thought it was a standalone app.

[@MattKloskowski]

Gotcha! Maybe look at your plan. LR and PS are included in the $9.99 month plan. Definitely worth it for software that used to cost us nearly $1000 :-)

[@jimavery3211]

if you're used to using lightroom and photoshop and how do you open ACR by itself.

[@johngiatropoulos3848]

When you move the RAW file From LR to Photoshop, Camera Raw opens and there you have the new features -- once you enable them in settings

[@MattKloskowski]

In Photoshop go to File > Open and open a Raw file. It will automatically open in to Camera Raw. Thanks.

[@jimavery3211]

What is Lightroom Desktop? I thought there was Lightroom and Lightroom Classic.

[@stevez6157]

Lightroom Desktop = Lightroom Classic

[@bruceatkinson932]

@@stevez6157 Um, not correct. Its Lightroom that = Lightroom Desktop, not Lightroom Classic

[@bruceatkinson932]

@@stevez6157 Not correct. Lightroom Desktop = Lightroom

[@MattKloskowski]

Lightroom is often called Lightroom Desktop.

[@tadeuszcynkowski2197]

@@stevez6157 Wrong. Lightroom (Lr) = Lightroom desktop = Lightroom cloud = Lightroom cc. Lightroom classic (LrC) is separate application based on database.

[@reginastone6035]

Why does my raw look so different