Extreme Arctic Vehicles - modern and historic inspiration and competitors for Project Bernard [4K]

[@ysesq]

have you thought of using a lifeboat called alan and sticking tracks on it ?

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

I hear an echo.

[@ysesq]

@@AlexHibbertOriginals but seriously if you removed ballast. engine and prop you would get a nice cheap insulated waterproof fiberglass shell which can take 6 tires or tracks. not a great boat but it would do fine as a amphibious 6x6.

[@davidbeales7390]

​@@ysesqThis occurred to me too. It's designed to survive during an emergency in (eg) the north sea. It's going to be quite strong. And you already know it's seaworthy, and also already insulated it, and can live in it.

[@ManxAndy]

Ahh…this is definitely more my thing, I like the technical vehicle type of content , 👍👌🇮🇲

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Pleased you're pleased.

[@VictorGarciaR]

10:55 the other vehicles look like early versions of the ATS59 artillery tractor. They were old repurposed T54 tank chassis. And the Kharkovchancka looks very very similar.... The suspension, the controls... Looks like an elongated t54

[@ivarsandin7275]

Very cool stuff. looking forward to watching each and every video just like with ALAN(!)

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Good to have you with us

[@MaxMakerChannel]

I make lightweight products for a living for the motor camping industry. Saving weight almost always has advantages. Less materials means lower costs. Less weight often means you can use cheaper components. Maintenance and all kinds handling becomes easier. Shipping is cheaper. If I was to build something like that, I would probably build a 3 inch thick glass fibre shell. That gives you plenty of insulation. With wheels and suspension underneath. A standard car motor and a flat roof for as many solar panels as possible.

[@More_Row]

Saving weight doesn’t “almost” always have advantages. I can think of many situations were that would bring disadvantages. There’s advantages of course but the disadvantages are there, that’s the balancing act.

[@Spedley_2142]

I agree. Reducing weight is an advantage, even if you have to add ballast elsewhere. I'd probably go semi-modular too. 8 wheels is two 4 wheel vehicles stuck together. I wouldn't worry about thickness and sandwich strong insulation to make a fully sealed, excessively strong design. I'd also go the whole hog and full drive by wire - cameras, sensors and redundant actuators - I don't need to see nothing out the small front window.

[@anonaustria9867]

What if during your in-depth analysis of your inspirations you discover that one of them meets all your criteria?

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

It's unlikely, but I guess I'd just delete the channel and start working a third job to save up.

[@Obvsaninternetexpert]

You looked at the sherp but not the sherp ‘the arc’

[@gafrers]

Love these kind of vehicles Kharkovchanka, Sherp and the Burlak being my favorites

[@ironteacup2569]

These are so cool. This is what I love when it comes to content

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Cheers

[@elkneto4334]

craaaazy plans.. i love it

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Pleased to have you with us

[@Aheitchoo]

Love the challenge here, love the focus. Please lay out the intended and likely travel distance/exposure on water. While many of these vehicles don't immediately sink, none of them seem able to cover something like a 10 mile stretch of sea. Is that part of the challenge? I dont know, but you do! Maybe at least be able to deflate the tires, and pull up the suspension with 'limit' straps on winches? Would make tire servicing easier too, could even help with serious off roading situations. As a KZbinr, Im sure you are familliar with the off roading channels. "Matts offroad" does a good 'practical effective off roading' with some focus on weight and self sufficiency.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

You've spotted a key thing. We want to do much better on water than paddle with wheels for a short distance. External propulsion to follow open water leads and the ability to be towed are central for Bernard.

[@Hyratel]

I'm not sure MORR is really much for Self Sufficiency - they do some really Way Out There recovery locations but it's mostly out and back one-day excursions not too far from civilization. The Bombi is *not* something that can offer much in the way of inspiration - it is a bog-standard snow-crawler that's just been Upgraded A Lot. And has a completely custom crewcab. The only thing left of the original BR100 is the body bucket. Everything else has been changed in some way. Thinking hard about it, I don't really know what Alex could learn from MORR or most of the other ORR and Rock Crawler Guys. the Heavy Wrecker is super complex with 4 Wheel Steer while Alex seems to be going for Articulated 6wheel 12x12 double-body like the BV206.

[@Aheitchoo]

@Hyratel ya you cant copy them directly, but MORR does a great job of building rigs simply, robustly, and in a way that can be serviced easily. Also lots of low pressure tire work. MORR is one of the few public, truly used hand made vehicles.

[@Platypus_Warrior]

It's either the Sherp or a wheel conversion on Alan. For the boat it will probably need a tricycle configuration. Two tractor wheels at the rear with a lock diff (no suspension, half submerged with the shafts thru the hull to save weight). Not sure if the boat draft allows it. The front would get an extendable front steering wheel. Or.... The rear diff is like a tank, triangle tracks on each side and the front has a skis Or... Any front rear combination or front wheel with skis on each side of the wheel. Or... haha

[@iamTFT]

I was thinking a sort of combination of concepts: articulation from a BV206 , gives four direction steering up - down and left - right ( this is from me seeing that the videos of the other vehicles try to climbing out of the water was lack luster) High flotation Tyres from the mentioned vehicles these have to be on a bead locking wheel Use a Toyota Diesel for ease of parts possibility of electric drive at the wheels for simplified drive line (think diesel-electric locomotive, fewer batteries that don't like the cold) modular cabins that are a lower of aluminum and upper of fiberglass, each cabin should be be sized to fit in a cargo container

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

You're aligned on a few areas - artic, elec drive. Less so on GRP or a single engine.

[@jonathan5354]

This is going to be interesting. I am still wandering in which direction this will go.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

If in reverse, I've messed up the motor wiring.

[@wreckleskelly]

So ahh it's been mentioned but an off road chassis with liftable wheels/suspension that holda Allan. Floats, drives, can be separated for expeditions, Make a hybrid drive system and it's own cab with the ability to be driven from Allan

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

You're on the right track, but alas Alan won't be on this one.

[@More_Row]

Cheers hope you end up choosing the best after a deeper dive into the specifics and drawbacks

[@AutieTortie]

Damn, I was hoping for Alan the Airship 🤣

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

I'm here to disappoint.

[@RM-zx7xi]

Great video. Whilst al is probably the material of choice here, certainly for the chassis, but I am minded to think of one of the great aircraft of ww2, the wooden laminated mosquito v expensive complicated Al aircraft. Perhaps look at doing the body tub in cold moulded ply and epoxy whilst high strength parts ie chassis being al. This would help keep costs and weight down and all the boat building practice you had on Alan wouldn't go to waste! Some good CNC cutting machines out there too!

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Wood/epoxy composite was ace in WW2, but I think we can do better with modern composites.

[@RM-zx7xi]

Yes agreed. Just an example of where it can be good or better than Al which is expensive. Glad your thinking of using composites.

[@davidbeales7390]

If you use in-wheel drive, then you could use front and back built in jacks to suspend the vehicle, while a belt/track is installed underneath. Wheels (since they have no driveshafts, only electrical connections) can swing up and sideways while suspended to install the belt which would go all the way across underneath and give minimum loading per unit area for difficult terrain, while the (4?) wheels alone would give low rolling resistance, and potentially high speed for good surfaces. Track/belt can be stowed on the roof while not in use. Belt/track could also be made in segments for easy installation by one person. Might even have optional configurations for different terrains. Belt/ track could be tentioned by a movable tentioner from above the belt/track, behind the front wheels. Steering by flexibility in the band/track moved by independent differential and steering of front and rear wheels. Tight turning circles are likely less important than traction going over ice floes I would imagine.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Interesting idea for two travel modes. I'll investigate, although the 'track on wheel' kits for UTVs are famously prone to failure. Agreed on the simple differential steering.

[@davidbeales7390]

@AlexHibbertOriginals maybe you need materials/composites that are still impact resistant at the expected operating temperature range. Both at rest in the morning, and after reaching operating temperature.

[@janneaalto3956]

Probably the one vehicle that can go right to the pole without having to make detours because of cracks and thawing, is a nuclear submarine. Chartering one could be difficult.

[@bushcraftbasics2036]

Very curious what your final design will be.

[@flounder2283]

A Sherp with tracks.

[@Platypus_Warrior]

You can't fit tracks on it and it wouldn't work if you could

[@piotrlenar5652]

The Sno-Cat is missing. Ratrac. My ideas for consider: 1. A contraption based on a floating excavator but in configuration of a Bandvagn with diesel electric powerplant. 2. Vehicle mad of two sherpas connected together as a Bandvagn. 3. Ratrac (snowgrooming tractor) with some kind of floaters lots of traction and space.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

The contraints for 1 and 3 are weight. Most are intentionally heavy for traction, and burn tons of fuel.

[@piotrlenar5652]

​@@AlexHibbertOriginals That was only for inspiration. If I was behind te project i would build tracked vehicle made of aluminium. Tracked floaters is what You need but not ready to accept it :) Sherpa wheels gives it buoyancy but if punctured in middle of arctic it would be unrepayable. You have to assume that something will brake and it have to be repaired on site without any help so any wheels are bad idea. Try looking at those tractors as a base because you can easily reduce it weight by half and you got a platform to start, but floating it would not be that easy.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

I completely agree that inflatable tyres are a risk, and am looking at other ideas. Tracks are famed though for their complexity and propensity to get fouled up.

[@barrettdent405]

I’m guessing tracks are great when they aren’t frozen up. But given the sheer amount of material you have to get moving, I imagine you’re really in for a struggle if you do encounter a freeze up. More moving parts equals more potential to go wrong. The big attraction to the tires must be at its heart, buoyancy. The trouble is fixing them. While you can weld onto metal tracks, if you totally blow out a tire beyond any chance of patching, you could be in a pickle. That wanna be Sherp conversion didn’t look to running stout enough rims. Therein is a potential warning. Cheating out of cutting weight in the wrong place could end very badly. Thankfully that fool was clearly testing closer to home and not in the conditions where he might’ve killed himself.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Tracks are indeed famously hard to fix and maintain. Point taken on going too lightweight where robustness is needed.

[@konserv]

Харьковчанка 💛💙 I am suggesting taking a good old Tatra or other reliable truck (you can do even 6x6 or 8x8) and adding a livable space and a bunch of essentials and spare parts to it. And appropriate wheels, of course.

[@MushroomSnake2077]

An unfortunately lacking in inspiration comment here (my knowledge base is in static engines weighing in at around the 15 tonne range); but something odd happened with the Burlak voice over audio, as if it had been compressed and pitch shifted, almost like the AI-lex voice you tested. On the hypothetical vehicle design side of things - is it worth having the non-driven wheels bolted to reinforced sections on the outside of Bernard, allowing for a modular design where you can replace an entire 'single wheel axle and suspension' section in the event of severe damage. This could also mean that the wheels can be removed for storage and shipping. Another potenital idea is having the steering system as a fixed axle that pivots as a singular unit, attached either at the front or rear, much like the articulated front end of the Kamaz, sans the cabin. In my mind this would increase the ease of access for maintenance, with potential for weather and impact protection being a removable series of interleaved panels, or an accordion style flexible covering, while also keeping the center of gravity low to the ground.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

You found the bit of the VO I recorded a few hours after the main section. But, no AI Alex. Not now, not in the future. Pretty much all you mention is along my own thinking, although the turntable steering is probably not a go-er. At low speed differential steering perhaps simpler.

[@GarrettDevitt]

I assume the Pole to Pole Nissan is too small for your plans? I did like their wind turbine charger though.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

It's the amphib ability we need

[@antonykahil]

What about pistenbully/snowcat style machines. I don’t know what sort of budgets you’re working with, but I suspect you could get an older model machine out of Europe in good condition for under $100,000 and modify it with what you need. Good all terrain capabilities, low ground pressure, a blade that can haul a lot of weight, and a large rear deck (some even have cabins already) that haul a ton or more.

[@dancarter482]

Dirty-great diesel engines - Skania truck motors v10's etc. - would have to haul a fuel bowser!

[@licencetoswill]

i thought the same cause they use them loads in antarctica, but they're 8 tons and dont float.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Great if you have tons of fuel and no water

[@LBJHJP50]

Have you seen the "screw" tanks?

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

I have ! Great on mud or slush

[@gudnisnaer8171]

You should maybe contact Artic trucks or other companys with experiense of getting wheeled vehicles around the artic and see if thei have any advice

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Some of the converted vehicles in the video are actually AT-modified trucks. They certainly know about modifying production vehicles.

[@gudnisnaer8171]

@AlexHibbertOriginals wich means thei propably know what works and what dosent in terms of suspension and such. If you are going for a wheeled vehicle that is

[@davidbeales7390]

Lightweight. Well insulated, all wheel electric drive, standard well tested reliable diesil (Toyota are known for reliability) driving a generator. (Off the shelf generator?). Maybe detachable toothed rubber "track" or band to spread the load when travelling over friable surfaces. Watching wheel spin getting out of the water over the lip of the ice prompted that. Could even be a mesh, so long as it gripped the ice. Wheels are fast, tracks spread the load and give traction.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Yes, I agree that leaving tracks behind is a compromise, but the Burlaks climb out very effectively.

[@davidbeales7390]

@AlexHibbertOriginals When you are considering materials. I understand 9% Nickel steel is good for low temperature (down to - 195C) impact resistance. It is used for LNG carrier ships, so I can't imagine it's that expensive. Maybe you could get it as scrap sheet from an LNG carrier ship breaker?

[@djremotion2]

Weird that snow groomers were not looked at.. It ofcourse would sink in open water. But that is only thing that can also work it’s surroundings and those have million times more hours used than any of the examples. Small water passing could be dealt easily. Push snow to water with blade and let it freeze over night, then go across. Another thing to look at might be Sisu Pasi, or it’s current version Patria AMV XP. Those go through lakes and have lots of stuff you need, only remove the armoring and weight. They might have suitable propulsion as the vehicle 6x6 or 8x8 and goes through waters too.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Snow groomers are intentionally heavy, and don't need much range. And of course they sink. As with the other military vehicles people have mentioned, they weigh 10-30 tons.

[@ibid49]

Are there regulations or other concerns about stowing fuel on the ice and picking it up on the way back like you did with food?

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Only international maritime law re: pollution, but you're predicted a big part of the Bernard project

[@VinceW187]

Just look to Top Gear for inspiration all you need is a couple of toyota hilux pick ups with a outboard engine

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Great on that very constrained region of Northern Canada they traversed.

[@Koolteer]

Sorry I'm a bit stuck on the sailing Idea. First as my job and now a hobby, I sail. And, I've sailed on Ice. No need for fuel. Only wind. You could combine it with other plans. Not having sailing knowledge is no excuse. Learning it is easy.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Kites and parasails are well established in the polar world, but only for very lightweight rigs

[@Koolteer]

@AlexHibbertOriginals You might be the pioneer to change that perspective.

[@RickBrennan]

Seems like it’s time to buy 3 yemelaya and find some friends and get going!

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Are you writing the cheque? (not even sure they are for sale)

[@Skorpychan]

Aluminium and fibreglass will be your friends, I feel. However, the Kharkovchanka were very successful, and based off the proven T-55 tank chassis. You may want to consider something similar, and work off the Spartan APC; they're very light for armoured vehicles, originally had the Jaguar I6 from the E-type, and mostly aluminium. Radical surgery to the metal box bodywork, a diesel engine like they stuck in the upgrades to the family, and maybe rubber tracks instead of heavy steel. Water mobility was limited, however, being limited to a very calm pond in good weather. Maybe something like the WW2 DUKW; a proven and capable truck chassis with a boat hull built onto it. There are no end of military surplus cargo trucks designed to fit in aircraft capable of landing almost anywhere, so maybe a HEMTT with radical surgery and a major diet, or a Unimog. When you get right down to it, you just want a truck that can cross bumpy ice, float, and carry a motorhome's worth of living space and amenities on it's back. While hauling a trailer of fuel, spare parts, and other supplies. But maybe consider Kegresse tracks for inspiration, so you can stick tracks over the rear tyres for extra traction when needed.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Good insights, thanks. I think we can get the weight way down compared to tracked military vehicles though. And we can definitely do better than GRP in terms of composites.

[@forstermr]

Alvis Stalwart, British army 6 wheel drive amphibious truck, Might be able to modify to suit your needs.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Nearly nine tons!

[@licencetoswill]

pistenbulleys - they love them in antarctica. too heavy and expensive and they dont float either.

[@davidrumsey3180]

While they wouldn't suit your project, you could have mentioned Ed Hillary's use of fairly standard Massey Fergusson farm tractors on tracks. Cheap, light, reliable and successful in traversing Antarctic terrain...

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

You're right. They and other converted tractors are commonplace even today.

[@HandymanMark]

Can-Am Defender 6X 6

[@williamdowns1917]

tracks are wonderful for traction, but horribly inefficient and heavy compared to big fluffy wheels. I suspect that's why you see more wheels these days. A half-track would be an interesting premise, but I suspect would not win a design-off competition vs. big fluffy wheels.

[@111elf1]

austrian 6x6 Pinzgauer? well it lacks insulation, but they are cheaply, you sometimes get one in the UK (airport fire fighters) also, cannot swim, but fully submergible 😂

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Very much in the vein of the other big steel AWD UTVs

[@CynicismFTW]

Having first hand expirience the old bv206 are better than the new catvs

[@alwaystinkering7710]

ZIL 2906 kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3yWeGlor6-ogJI Fordson Snow motor kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGSYdqOkfpVmprs

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Cool things on mud or snow, but ice would destroy them

[@Sm00k]

Kharkovianka. Easy

[@Aheitchoo]

Ok hear me out. Get 6 Orbis hub motors, heavy duty trailer torsion axles, and a high performance Generator. Mount all to an aluminum exoskeleton. What are those things above the tires, fenders? NO! those are outrigger amas. After you enter the water the hubs turn upside down placing the float in the water and holding the tires aloft.

[@SAILBOATJACARANDA]

Cool stuff Alex, I like the Marsh Screw Amphibian. Screws are underrated, mechanically simple, but can get over stuff and float, and if driven sideyways,,, somewhat less fuel hungry. Also, bit of a long shot but I know Doug Jackson from SV Seeker, went out to OK to help build SV Seeker years ago. SV Seeker is a 74 foot chinese junk. He spent 12 years building the thing to assist adventurers and scientists, might be worth touching base with him, might get a free lift somewhere in the distant future.

[@ysesq]

doug jackson cant build a boat to save his life. he built a giant floating unseaworthy heap with broken drivetrain and got kicked off youtube for scamming his subscribers for money after faking a head injury. classic scammer.

[@SAILBOATJACARANDA]

@ysesq the head injury was a bloody awful prank/joke gone wrong in fairness. But I'm sure it hurt me a hell of a lot more than you... He apologized. Men should accept apologies. I wont go into the rest, but there is strong rebuttal. At his core Doug's a good, kind hearted man, with numerous faults.

[@ysesq]

@@SAILBOATJACARANDA no doug is a sociopathic narcissist who fooled a lot of people for a very long time.

[@daylen577]

150 million bucks should be doable by the time we've done.. 4? 5? boats

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

www.alexhibbert.com/aho 😂

[@krimke881]

The hovercrafts retired from the English channel crossings has got to be extremely cheap nowadays. There's well past retirement from commercial traffic. 😁

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Extremely cheap is perhaps relative! If they even exist.

[@romangavrilov4289]

Харьковчанка?

[@slammsonite1]

Sorry Alex, your national socialist snowmobile was actually Russian and used by the Finns, those are Finnish markings... ;-)

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Oh! Thanks. Can you link me to more info on that?

[@flounder2283]

Ospreys crash all the time.

[@dancarter482]

Ospreys suck ~ Chinooks _TRUCK!_

[@jmwintenn]

the commercial sector has been trying to make them work for a few decades now. they keep killing test pilots. if the US military isn't willing to build them any more with all the funding they get, it has some serious flaws.

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

Intrigued to see how the V-280 safety will compare, or what they have fundamentally redesigned. That said, apparently the new V-22 mods are so good the new model is in doubt.

[@dancarter482]

@@jmwintenn Main problem is a glide-ratio of your average bullion vault!

[@ultramarinus2478]

DUDE, better go for evolution of working, than revolution and untested. The second might kill you much easier. Khar kov chan ka. Girl from Kharkiv (city in soviet union, located in Ukraine i belive). NOT hard to pronounce - simply divide the world in your head, before you tell it. This one is probably too big for your expedition, but interesting because it is designed to take a beating and work even witouth tracks. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vityaz_(ATV) Vityaz ATV (means winner).

[@AlexHibbertOriginals]

I wasn't aware it was so phonetic.