Alfa 146 Ti Goes for a Drive

The Alfa Romeo 145 and 146 were a curious 1990s double act, a 3 and 5 door hot hatch duo in the small family car size. The Alfa 146Ti was the 'sensible' option, lets see what it was like.
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[@CarCaveChris]

2001 I bought a 1.7 146. Sadly sold a year later. 2021 I bought a 1.7 145, never to be sold. Great cars.

[@andreaciolli375]

I usually never write comments on YT but this time I'll make an exception. This video brings back so many lovely memories related to my childhood, in a rather difficult period of my life, that it moved me.. My grandfather, who had a 1994 33 1.3, bought it for my father back in 1996, 4 years before I was born, as a graduation gift, 1.9 TD 90 hp, basic, red with black bumpers. I was always very happy when he came to pick me up from school with the Alfa rather than the Ypsilon which is now my first car. During summer time we went on vacation around Italy with it and it was the very first car that I drove in my life. Despite the thousand defects, light bulbs that burned out, windshield wipers that didn't want to work properly, an electrical system that was constantly having problems, an engine that had a tendency to overheat and above all the sky that came off until it touched our heads, the 146 never left us on foot and I still remember it today, many years later, fondly. He scrapped it in 2009 after 3 olive oil canisters broke, impregnating all the interiors and then bought the new Lancia Delta, the one that in England was sold as a Chrysler🤦‍♂️ that he still owns today. In short, despite being one of the most snubbed Alfa's ever, the 146 was the car with which I was taken home after my birth, the one with which I was taken on the first day of school and used for my First Communion. In general the car that accompanied me in the first important stages of life and that has made me passionate about engines, reason why I'm studying engineering. I want to thank you Furious Driving for making me relive all these precious memories. However, the day of the demolition i was quite sad and just before we delivered it to the dealership I took the front trilobe, the badges and the rear-view mirror that I kept in memory of it and all the good moments connected to that special Alfa ❤️

[@JK061996]

That's a lovely story, I have similar memories of my parents' 1997 Fiat Marea Weekend. It was a constant presence during my childhood and teenage years, like yours it had a few small problems but never let us down and reached ~220k km. Unfortunately in 2014 the cam belt snapped because my mom couldn't justify the cost of its replacement, I was sad that we had to scrap it and I still miss it today.

[@nigelh4617]

Alfa, Fiat and Lancia in the 1990s. On fire with their styling.

[@oompah01]

This is a car I really wanted, and regret not buying! I personally always preferred the 146 to the 145. This drive was a treat to watch, thank you for such a detailed and carefully thought-out video.

[@keithgompertz549]

Thanks. Great car. Built by engineers and drivers, not accountants and marketing departments. As Lampredi once said, an engine doesn’t drink, it breathes.

[@BojanBojovic]

I had 146 TI, it was such a great car, so underrated. I miss the Twin Spark engine, and fast, precise steering. KZbin reviewers often call this car a flop regarding driving dynamics, while in reality it being much better than a boring Golf and Astra everyone else purchased. I often wonder what they are talking about really, this was such a great car.

[@lukamilic]

My father bought a '98 Twin Spark back in '04 and ever since then, I've been an Alfista. My first and dream car is an '09 Mito 1.4 Turbo. The 146 is holding up extraordinarily, for a 24 year old car.

[@Yorkyscott]

I had one of these and loved it. Had a 1.6 TSpark previously and loved that but the Ti was much quicker

[@raggersragnarsson6255]

I had the 146 1.7 boxer rather than the Ti. It was a fun car to drive and it was a versatile and good family car. It had plenty of power and was comfortable inside with loads of extras for its time. The bodywork and paint quality were great. The negatives were the odd electrical fault. The common air bag warning light issue. Head gasket going and finding a mechanic willing to work on an Alfa boxer engine. Door locks not working especially during cold winters and also a stuck handbrake for me. I had to climb in via the boot a couple of times as my door locks wouldn't unlock. According to a mate who drove it once who said it was quite powerful and quick. (as a motorcyclist cars all seem slow to me in comparison so that was nice to hear). The gearbox travel was like a van for its time. Apart from I can't fault it. The engine went at 140k. A piston went through the engine. Which was probably due to low oil and my lack of attention as I didn't know they burnt oil like VWs.

[@andynorton5431]

As a 156v6 owner this video is spot on,glad to see you driving around my local lanes and proving the South East can be a good place for fun drives...I am now on the hunt for a 145/146 for the wife and sorry i missed out on this one.

[@davidearrigone9411]

Air Recirculation button was split in two smaller buttons for the ones with AC 😊

[@ralfhenke8148]

The 145 was originally meant to become the Lancia Delta II but was rechristened an Alfa during development whereas the 146 was Alfas replacement for the 33 from its very beginning. That's how these inequal twins came about. They are actually different from the A-pillar on, most recognizeable by the 145s strange but delicate side-window line.

[@johang7498]

A "goes for a drive" that just had to happen. And such a treat for me: mine back in the day was a black one, one of the very last 146s with the 1.6 boxer-engine. It had the same style boot spoiler too. Drove it for about 60.000 miles over a period of 6 years and enjoyed every one of them. The only thing I could hold against it was that it was quite a thirsty car and there was this thing with one of the rear windows, that it came down a little during long trips. But other than that: totally reliable and highly enjoyable! The feeling you're trying to describe is the "more than the sum of its parts"-thing; there's a soul under its stylish body, like in all of the great Alfa Romeos. Great thanks for this one, Matt.

[@PaulFellowsGuitarist]

Had and identical one of these as a company car for a few months back in the late 90's. Used mainly for commuting on the M4 but also used it on holiday to drive down to and back from the South of France. The air con thanfully worked very well! It was certainly a fun car to drive, good road holding and the engine sounded fabulous. There was a bit of torque steer but not much worse than on my old Ford Escort RS Turbo series 1. The Alfa was however very thirsty on fuel which at the time back then was all bought and paid for by the company and therefore not an overiding concern, but plenty of visits to the fuel station were rquired! It was very reliable and I really could not fault the car even though it was a bit quirky inside. Eventually the company moved me to a big Audi A6 with a 1.9TDi diesel. Not as much fun, but very comfortable and roomy plus it managed 650 miles to the tank versus around 220 miles to the Alfa. The Audi's aircon though packed up in the South of France and dumped gallons of water into the passenger footwell which messed up the ECU conveniently placed under the passenger footwell! So the Alfa won the reliability stakes comfortably!

[@BloodintheEye]

the most underrated hothatch of 90s. i owned QV 145 it was amazing

[@OdykKayne]

Great video Matt! LOVE the 146...even more than the 145. I always loved the slick, clean styling on the rear end of the little 146! :)

[@Brunocapi]

Excellent video. My grandfather used to have one just like this, 2.0 ti and even same color. Still to this day is my favorite car

[@TheOracle65]

Great review Matt, and not biased at all! As a previous owner of a '98 156 2.0TS, that acceleration sound @22:30 made my spine tingle and brought back some great memories.

[@nomdeplume798]

I used to have a 156 2 litre Veloce with the Momo leather interior and 5 hole Teledial wheels, used to love that car. With 110,000 miles on the clock it took four adults to Nice and back without any problems. I can also remember driving through floods in Northumbria where the water came up to the sill extensions with no problems, even though cars and vans with more ground clearance were being abandoned.

[@pudingaomar6341]

Mine 1997 ti has been quiet reliable.the only parts changed was the cam phase variator,radiator fan,and alternator.still a blast to drive.its even more reliable than my f10 528 BMW

[@philipmulville8218]

‘Oh, this is a happy place’. Great passion. Matt, and beautifully shot.

[@focusrssteve]

You did a great job with this review, so good I went to see if I could go a view the car, so three hours after this review went live it was already sold, so the search goes on, thank you Matt great review, keep them coming.

[@asengan4ev748]

Really cool car , my dad had the 1.4 twin spark 12 years with no problems....

[@01322521959]

Great enthusiastic review. Wondered why my face was aching, it was due to finding a smile on my face all through the road test. Says it all really.

[@colincasey2032]

These are great cars, I loved mine. The quick steering and one of the best 4 cyl engines ever. They did a great job with these Tipo 2 platform cars.

[@yoranw4608]

As for when I lived in Brazil, the 145 was sold there. It didnt sell bad, despite all the attention going for the 164, which was a lot more expensive. Curious fact is that by 2010, most of Alfas were absolutely gone, pretty much extinct. Hard maintenance(import cars of a brand no longer existed there), prices dropping off cliffs… if not all factors combined.

[@markonmotoring]

That certainly sold quickly. Ive always loved these and the 145. Really elegant styling. My Aunti and Uncle had a facelift with the full colour coded bumper. Sadly the car was driven through a Ford and never ran again but it was the most special car they ever had.

[@danken2928]

Beautiful piece of engineering, love the videos matt great content as usual!

[@aslandama]

You've just inspired me to get my 145 finished and road ready again this year.

[@adehw9999]

Great review, always loved the 146. Great shape, great engine, so much more characterful than 90s alternatives. Just a shame that Alfa started to chase VW and toned down the interiors in their hatches in this era. Fiat Group coupes/etc were so imaginative at the time, but the hatches not so much. Thankfully that didn't last.

[@kevinoakes1171]

Great review, lovely motor and a real survivor. I’ve had 5 Alfa’s in the last 3 years and they’ve all been fantastic. All had their own character and were great in different ways, best one was a 156 ti, 2.0 twin spark, great car, wish I had kept them all, but, that one, especially. Now have a lowly 1.4 n/a, 95bhp Mito which is good, cheap to run and good fun when you boot it but it lacks in power. The missus has the Mito with the 155bhp turbo engine and, it’s a quick car by any standards, unfortunately she won’t swap !!. Lol

[@alfagtvjan]

Brilliant video. I had a 146ti in that colour. What a car! The best handling, most beautifully balanced car I have ever driven. A ballerina of a car. If only it had a better interior and a 6 speed gearbox, it would be perfect.

[@brunocalico]

I had a 1.4 Twinspark with the Blaupunkt cd box, circle air vents, auto aircon. Swap my Cuore Sportivo for a Citroen C3 1.4 HDI. Less happy with drive feeling, more happy when looking to the fuel indicator. Thanks for listening the Twinspark shout.

[@DingKong]

I had a 146 2.0 Twin Spark. Absolutely brilliant car. Looked great, handled very nicely, able motorway cruiser... plenty of smooth power. Styling was great.

[@RobinCapper]

Although not Italian I was blessed with Fiat/Alfa compatible proportionally short legs for overall height. Never understood the 'Italian' driving position thing until seeing others trying to fit in them :)

[@charonunderground8596]

It was my first car. I had an Alfa 146Ti 2.0 petrol. I bought it before I got my driving licence. It's too good a car to own for the first time because it was a bit capricious. However, it was great fun to drive, very comfortable and for me beautiful classic lines.

[@InteriorDesignAnderson]

Gorgeous car. Love the colour. My partner has recently bought a Mito QV and its a brilliant little car, looks great too.

[@simonhodgetts6530]

Lovely! I nearly bought a 146 - but ended up with a 145 t spark instead - what an engine, and a super responsive chassis. I miss that car! The platform was a great one - sadly I’ve not driven a Tipo 16v, but I did drive a 2.0 8v GT, which was just as much fun as the 145, but maybe not as raw in the handling stakes.

[@alansimpson835]

I always thought it was odd that they weren't called 143 and 145 on account of their doorage but who am I to question? Still never driven an Alfa but it does sound glorious

[@andrewsimpson718]

Fantastic car :-) evocative look to it inside and out, great to drive and the lovely engine sound. I had a 2000 model year 145 1.8 ts in red - quirky but cool.

[@9610SMUDGE]

Great review as always. Just bought the Sierra Ghia 4x4 estate that you reviewed a while ago and largely due to your excellent test drive

[@MartinJones123]

Italian cars are like that relative that isn't quite right and rough around the edges but they're loveable...

[@darrylmac6150]

The front end design is just timeless. Alfa Romeo have never made an ugly car in my mind

[@johnj3577]

The only car I've ever taken out regularly just to go for a drive and no other reason was my Alfa 145. Mine was the 1.7 16v. Great little car, not fast by any means, but it sounded great and handled brilliantly on the North Yorkshire moors which was my favourite route. Mine had velour seats though, pure luxury! And I got the dealer to put a cloverleaf wheel and gearknob in it as part of the deal which had red stitching if I remember correctly. There was a wood panel available to cover that plastic area around the heater controls. I nearly got it, but decided against in the end. I still have my original brochures and options and accessories list somewhere.

[@afonsonunes1184]

Lovely beautiful car. If you pay close attention, every bit of the car is special and had received due consideration. Look at the side indicators, even the shape of is different and carefully designed (perhaps less than the 147 / Mito, but nonetheless still special). I have drove a 147 1.4 continental version with the boxer engine. That engine never complained about high-revs, quite the opposite. I agree these cars are extremelly rewarding to drive and as opposed to what what the "specialized journalism" likes to say about Alfas and Italian cars, the ownership is not daunting nor more complicated or expensive than other cars. If you like one and if you can, just get it. I would get one if I could.

[@michaeltutty1540]

Great video, Matt. That looks like a very nice car, albeit not my cuppa. I'm much more used to large, under stressed V8 and always rear wheel drive cars. Your description of the driving position made it so I would never even test drive one. 6 shoulder surgeries make it so I must be close to the wheel. Clarkson was wrong. Anyone who has lived with a Volvo 240 knows what a living car feels like. Arthur has been a faithful companion all of his 32 years. When the road turns twisty that old Estate BEGS to be let go and have fun, usually to the surprise of the driver behind. I do agree that everyone needs to experience a car that is alive and having fun. Nothing beats that feeling

[@Jam3sA]

My old boss had a black one of these, circa 2004. Felt quick, and remarkably roomy from the back seat too. Always preferred the styling of these vs the 145, especially from the rear 3/4 view.

[@andykitchen3910]

I bought a boxer version in 1996 and traded it for a twin spark in 1998. I regretted it, much preferred the boxer.

[@scottishcarenthusiastsandtrain]

Fantastic Review the 145 and 146 is what sparked my like for Alfa's like the 145, 146, 156, 155, as a 11 year old back in 1994 I would have wanted a 145 for 3 door cool, now as a 39 year old I would sway towards a 146 just for the practical side with a family, a Alfa is defo on the cards to own one day.

[@paulwlynch]

The most furious driving car Mr Furious has reviewed. As soon as I saw it for sale I thought you would be all over it... Great review, great car, Ps you should treat yourself to it ...

[@robertsmart2815]

I still maintain this is one of the most satisfying cars I’ve ever driven. I have a Giulietta, which doesn’t hold a light to these.

[@billwilliams5415]

Had a 146ti P reg back in the day. Loved it even with its faults

[@matthewgodwin3050]

Crikey, I haven't seen one of these for years. I'd forgotten just how good they look, and the sound they make is glorious. Would make a great runabout for Mrs Furious, just be sure to get a good policy with the RAC to go along with it.

[@cmartin_ok]

I would not touch the RAC with a bargepole after 2 family experiences where lone females were each left over 4 hours alone in the dark at night

[@YTOnceAgain]

The 145 is - in my opinion - on of the best looking hatchbacks ever. Edgy when all the others went round. The 146 is kind of an acquired taste. I think it was not quite as cool as the 33, and it does remind me a bit of the Citroën Xantia, which isn't exactly cuore sportivo.

[@Strike86]

The thing that surprised me about my 146 Ti is how aggressive they look down the side. Pin-sharp fold line from tail light to headlight and the massively flared front arches. It's an exquisite design, much more striking in person than in pictures and absolutely stolen by my first car, the Mk1 Renault Megane. Unfortunately I bought mine as a project and had to pass it on as it needed welding. They're galvanized but there are some trouble spots of rust and sadly I can't weld (yet). The engine was very strong though. I keep thinking about buying another one. Interestingly the 145 and 146 have the distinction of being the only production car ever to feature both a transverse inline 4-cylinder and a longitudinal boxer engine.

[@simonwoodward438]

I had a 145 1.8 and I reckon it's one of a very small handful of cars I regret selling, loved driving it.

[@petertrinder3127]

You soon jumped on this , great car from Wayne at Stone Cold Classics ,.love the review

[@mikes747]

Love this era of Alfa! Never been brave enough to pull the trigger though!

[@porsche356a]

alfa 146's definitley have the "Angry Birds" look on the front end, before Angry birds was even a thing !! Your right about the twin spark engine though since I love revving out my twin spark 916 spider. Cheers Steve

[@bigjohno242]

Beautiful car . Go on Matt - you know you want it !!

[@greenfaring2501]

Really well presented. You get Alfas. I really really want that engine.

[@benzinapaul7416]

Great cars and a very good review. I dealt in used Alfas in the early 2000s so had quite a few pass through my hands. You forgot to mention the difference between the early alloy engined topped cars compared to later cars with the plasticengine cover - the tubular exhaust manifold - this makes the earlier cars like the one in your review sound much better. I also found the cloth seats much more supportive and comfortable than the MOMO leather seats, the latter seemed to be over stuffed so you sat higher on a flatter seat. This car is in my opinion the perfect spec for a 146 Ti, I'm raiding my piggy bank as we speak!

[@furiousdriving]

Mine does feel like I’m sitting very high on the Momo,

[@peterfi.]

Daily drive a 146 1.4 facelift right now. Running costs are high and it is rather thirsty as well, but there is nothing on the street that handles like it for the same money. It is exactly as you said, more than the sum of its parts.

[@vbstein]

My 156 has the same engine and I love it.

[@d.c.Jones70]

Great cars just needed to see a review on a 147 i had the 2.0 lusso very good car and I think I must of been lucky cos it was very reliable.

[@adebare1524]

I owned 3 of the cars at the same, 1, 146 boxer engine and 2 146 Twin sparks, wear and tear finished them off, had to be crushed. Now I own a 147 1.6 Lusso after driving a 156 Veloce . I hope to own another 146. I surely do miss these cars like I miss a loved one.

[@Astonvanquishs]

I'm just 35 seconds in the video and Matt @furiousdriving you should buy it to keep with the 145! cheers from Italy!!

[@fhwolthuis]

Great car and super video. You know how to express that Alfa feeling pretty well 🍀🇮🇹❤️ I would love to own a ti like this, must be a lot better than the 1.7 16v boxer I owned about 20 years ago 😅

[@danmccarthy4700]

I don't think a better sounding 4 cylinder engine exists. It's like music.

[@Craggers81]

What a great car, I've owned a 1995 145 1.7 16v my favourite Alfa I've owned great flat 4 burble and big doors, also a 155 wide arch 2.0 t spark two 156s one with the later JTS engine and a 147 2.0 t spark 3 door, all very individual, and yes issues sometimes but great cars

[@lancelogan]

My alfa history: Alfa 33 Qv16 (video on my chanel), Alfa 156 2,5 v6, Giulietta QV, Alfa Giulia Veloce, yet another alfa Giulia veloce (tuned). I like the 146 too.

[@mekapaedia]

Dammit Matt, I've had to go and open an eBay tab now! Almost bought a really nice 145 Cloverleaf when living in Spain but bought a 306 GTI-6 instead - a weird case where the Alfa was the sensible choice, because it was half the price of the 306 and in much better condition! I will never forget the sound of the engine though... unmistakable and wonderful intake noise!

[@andyarmstrong1493]

Great looking car and excellent detail in your review. I was wondering why the speedo and rev counter display readings when the car isn't on?

[@ianfrost3529]

My mate as a 146 with the 1.7 boxer engine currently off the road but he is hoping to have it ready by the summer. He has just got his 620ti back on the road the Alfa is next

[@paulmckinder3082]

I love Alfa's I had a 156 selespeed sportwagen I loved it in light met blue strange as I now own a focus in light met blue. Anyway the Alfa was a fantastic car I regret selling it but at the time it failed the mot and needed a car quick so I sold it what a mistake. Great review sir

[@alastairgain4924]

I owned one of these in 2005, fantastic fun car, lovely sound, raspy exhaust, though I had to replace that and it was something £600 so I bought a cheap one from eBay, no one would fit it for me so I had to do myself and it was too long, that was fun and games, had a strange Rev limit when accelerating hard, it would suddenly lose power when you red lined it!! Also it had an idling cut out problem, no one knew how to fix it. Still I’m glad to have owned it as it was rare and good looking.

[@peterfi.]

yup the ECU cuts off the injectors at 7000 rpm

[@aaronbensi9723]

Nice car.. Here in Australia there worth nothing.. due to expensive maintenance... my Father had one when he was alive.. cost him a fortune to maintain... but loved these cars..

[@maxidyne]

Great review Matt! These are great cars, your 3 doors looks better in my opinion. Still not an ugly car of course this 5 doors. I remember an old colleague of mine had a 146 Junior in black.

[@Lot76CARS]

Nice one Matt, rare cars now, were you tempted to add it to the collection, well you do have the barn now….

[@lesklower7281]

By the time l watch this review if this Alpha Romeo it would have sold and your passion for Alpha Romeo is realy intoxicating l do not blame you because all you have to do is look at it and this is an extremely good example of an Alpha Romeo 145 it has a lot of bells and whistles you want in any car except for air conditioning and l am not a big fan of sun roofs they are not popular in Australia never owned a car with one never will but again a great review Matt

[@DashCamSerbia]

2:06 Woah! A yellow dot on the tyre mathces the possition of the valve. :o

[@richardhargrave6082]

I had a 156 SW with the 2.0 engine, wonderful thing! The problem with the TS is that a lot of owners didn't keep the oil topped up and change the cam-belt when they should have and many cars were scrapped with seized engines, which is a shame. I'd love a 916 GTV or Spider

[@simonhodgetts6530]

I had a 1.9jtdm 156 SW, which was beautiful - easily my favourite out of all of the cars I’ve owned. I’d love another - preferably a petrol engined model. I did once borrow a 166 with a 2.0 T Spark, which was wonderful, but more than a bit thirsty (although that might have been my driving!).

[@michaelnaughton1393]

Ease up on the Coffee and the Red Bull.

[@benzinapaul7416]

Shame we never got the facelifted centre console in the UK, it did improve it a lot

[@richardjohnson3463]

Super review of a lovely car. "Parpage" :-)

[@seancooke7332]

And breathe... Matt. Breathe.... breathe.... breathe. There we go . I think you could just keep driving this car all day and all night and then turn around and just drive it back again all day and all night.

[@deankamaruddin8211]

i have one in proteo red.1997 unit.has been quiet reliable.only the flooring starts to rust.bot zeo rust at all on its body panel

[@shaywhelan1]

Thank you for this. I was very tempted to get one at the time, but went for a Rover 216 SLi. The one based on the Honda Concerto. Can't remember what swung me. Must have been the price.

[@sharonec5419]

Beautifull car. Very well designed dash abd interior too just a pity the in was so dark and dull. Did it come in beige too?

[@daniel-ino]

Instant UK spec: mudguards.

[@gaufrid1956]

I never owned an Alfa, but I wish I did! The 146 was obviously a great car!

[@Grimwriggler]

very nice indeed Matt. any thoughts on the 105hp diesel ? a nice 145 JTD s for sale in Madrid

[@furiousdriving]

Ive never driven one, or even seen one! Sorry!

[@mancavehobbies6213]

I have a 146 1.8 TSPARK in green P-REG think i sent you some photos of her awhile back. Mine done 39k i'v had her 20 years.

[@davidlloydjones752]

Man alive!, I hope my horn-happy neighbour never gets his hands on one of those things.😲😲

[@laskos02]

Holy moly

[@philtowle4683]

I had the 1.8ts, I looked at the 1.7 boxer at same time but the belts and everything under the bonnet confused me. I always wanted the later ti with the newer bumpers. The turning circle is rubbish as the engine is so wide compared to chassis rails. My 1.8 never used any oil did over 70k in it. Did 2 cam belts a variator a set of 8 plugs, didn't have the balance shaft as the 2.0. Also the doors are different on the 145, they have the weird 'kick' under the window. I wasn't keen on the bootless alfa but still ended up with a 147.

[@cameronrichardson3108]

I just bought a 159 my first Alfa. The engine I’ve got is the stupid Vauxhall shit 1.8 😆 but it’s such a step up from my Corolla I had and makes the school bullies want to cry aha but I genuinely never realised until I bough the 159 how magic it is to own an Alfa it’s so cool better than any bmw Mercedes I think and the 159 is supposed to feel really heavy compared to the 156 etc

[@tommyolsen8224]

Nice car! Please test drive a Smart Forfour Brabus first gen 🔥

[@426baron]

Mmmh lovely !

[@Thanos.m]

On recent visit to Greece I surprised how many of there were still about I actually saw one that looked factory fresh it must had been restored

[@furiousdriving]

I went to Greece abut 4 years ago and there was a blue 146 parked on a harbour - I doubt that ones still around!

[@Thanos.m]

@@furiousdriving That mint one I saw was also blue I even saw a 75 parked streetside. it always amazes me to see cars that have practically disappeared here still comon place in other countries