Alien Impostors & Doppelgangers

[@Shatterverse]

This trope is even older still, dating back to the idea of a fey changeling or older. I've heard somewhere that one theory is that since autism starts to present at a young age, and people didn't understand stuff like it for most of history, that it was a mythological superstitious explanation for severe cases making "normal" babies suddenly start acting "alien."

[@jengleheimerschmitt7941]

Vaccines cause alien babies.

[@CChissel]

@@priapulida I always think back to the werewolf myth, full moons were important, you could go outside without a flame and see pretty well. I’d guess more people would be out at that time, depending on location and the way low light and shadows play tricks on you, I’m wondering if that may be a part of it. I’m just picturing one guy, who gets excited every full moon cause he can go run around at night, but he keeps seeing this scary wolf man, so he’s never able to run in delight. Only it’s just a regular man with the same idea as him.

[@generatoralignmentdevalue]

@@jengleheimerschmitt7941 You joke, but this is literally where that idea comes from. To many untrained parents, autism kicking in looks like a baby changed behavior overnight. That's both why autism might explain changeling myths, and why people blame vaccines that are typically given at about that same age.

[@whatevs53665]

You often see "regressive" autism, where a baby or toddler has normal cognitive development and then suddenly, often after an illness, appear to go back on milestones or present new symptoms.

[@viewer829]

I think the smartest kind of impersonation, and my favorite kind in fiction, are the ones who the people around them find them more likeable. People don't usually question the doppelganger about the change in a negative or suspicious way since it's seen positively and usually at or near the end of the story those people end up taking the side of the imposter over the original even when they know the truth.

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

I think what could also be interesting is if the doppleganger, despite appearing to be intelligent, aren't even sentient. They just imitate higher intelligence so well that most of us don't notice that they are any different.

[@cannonfodder4376]

"Don't worry guys, I have been accompanying Isaac around and saw him do tasks. He is not an imposter." *Gets neck snapped five minutes later*

[@ivoryas1696]

Cannonfodder43 Incredible. It's past 2020, and I had to scroll past through 5 - 10 comments to find an among us reference.

[@imshy2113]

@@ivoryas1696 You could almost say it's a bit sus (im so sorry amogus memes have irreversibly rotted my brain)

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

@@ivoryas1696 I mean, it seemed like the game has largely lost relevance and popularity, but it was so popular when it was relevant that it's embedded itself in our cultural DNA. You talk about imposters, and it's very likely somebody is going to be reminded of that game.

[@BrianPseivaD]

What an invigorating concept. Thanks Issac, as an Identical twin that used to swap classes, I can definitely relate to this. I used to do extra science, my brother did extra physical education so it’s justified, I’d do anything to learn more science, it’s worth it.

[@iainballas]

@@DomyTheMad420 He has a weird font for his name. It must be true. Only identical twins are so weird, in my experience.

[@BrianPseivaD]

@@DomyTheMad420 it’s 100% true, we unfortunately did get caught eventually, after around 4 months, so the teachers wrote out our names on our jumper labels, Ben and Brian, we tried to swap jumpers but the P.E. Teacher, Mr Vose, had unfortunately become wise to us and noticed straight away. But it did happen, also I’m actually amazed that we pulled it off to this day lol.

[@pougetguillaume4632]

@@BrianPseivaD lmao I have known a pair of twin and the only way to identify them was A) hope they are telling the truth B) remember what clothes they wore earlier and hope they didn't swap outfits C) scrutinize how funny they are D) know their quirks and keep track of specific conversation you've had with one but not the other That's it

[@ambitiousdentist6076]

yeah its a fantastic writing prompt!

[@jengleheimerschmitt7941]

You didn't ever trade girlfriends?

[@Shatterverse]

Given the super-impressive appearance altering that some octopodes can do, I think we might be able to make pretty convincing disguises with tech. They can mimic textures and colors _amazingly_ well. Well enough that anything short of close contact will be inadequate to tell the difference. It's not perfect, but they can even blend in with artificial pattern - and they're just acting on instinct.

[@D_Cragoon]

Something not mentioned here with regards to memory is that if someone keeps not remembering things they really, really should, then what is suspected, (for it is what it very sadly turns out to be) is an illness. Even if you are thinking you wouldn't think that about someone young, there are things that can cause memory loss I think (like some brain tumours). In a society where imposter aliens are not an actual thing thought to be real, I think that's where ordinary people's thinking would go if presented with someone apparently super forgetful. This line of thinking made me think up an idea for a dark sci-fi story where humanity finds out that imposter aliens are an actual real thing, and this causes huge panic. Loads of people become super paranoid that anyone they know could be replaced, and there ends up being witch hunt style courts where anyone who gets a bit forgetful for whatever reason gets dragged in front of and loads of innocent people end up being punished in some way, with people claiming it is justified by being sure humanity get the actual aliens, even if there are loads of false positives. Then for extra irony at the end, it turns out that when the aliens realised humanity had become aware of their existence, to protect their agents they had recalled them all, so none of the people accused of being aliens actually were.

[@Thuazabi]

That's a great twist ending.

[@D_Cragoon]

@@Thuazabi Thanks.

[@paulsmart4672]

There's a Dresden File story where a shapeshifter, who is very dangerous, extremely hard to hurt, and casually threatening in a way that comes from knowing it, increasingly takes on the form and memories of a crooked accountant who had passwords and permissions he shouldn't have had. As he adopts the memories of his target so that he can access this information, he begins to be frightened and intimidated by the assorted magical gangsters and their wild schemes that he's been sneering at up until that point. (and simultaneously frustrated by this.) It's a fun scene.

[@siver110]

Goodman grey is a well written character by my reckoning and your right he has a few fun scenes of transformation changing his outlooks for the period of the shift

[@antimonycup7066]

The Dutch resistance in WWII reportedly used the name of the town Scheveningen as a password in the war, due to especially that first syllable being really hard to pronounce 'as a native', even for Germans although they are our neighbors and even if they have a thorough understanding of Dutch. If you knew to fool us saying that word, you would have to be a master impostor/spy.

[@0326jlc]

Strangely enough Robert Howard’s Kull Use the same premise. The shape changing serpent men couldn’t pronounce a certain phrase. So Kull and his allies repeat it to one another to prove that they were human.

[@johnharvey5412]

This is a pretty old concept, called a shibboleth, and makes a lot of sense.

[@antimonycup7066]

@@0326jlc Interesting, I'll have to check that out, thank you.

[@antimonycup7066]

@@johnharvey5412 Thank you, I had no idea there was a word for it!

[@MissionHomeowner]

I guess the Dutch were very rude to the Germans, but the Germans also had a tough code word. Eichhörnchen. Squirrel.

[@AnimeShinigami13]

My first introduction to this category was the Yeerks from the Animorphs book series. They were a sentient species of parasitic slug. They went into the body through the ear (somehow not damaging the eardrum in the process) and sank into the brain, taking control of the person's body. When I was a kid I LOVED the Animorphs. The titular team themselves could transform into animals using technology. Somehow they were able to remove or add mass to their bodies.

[@marxtheenigma873]

I know it explained that extra mass was put into z-space when turning into smaller things, but it never said how they gained more when becoming bigger things.

[@michaelcherokee8906]

I knew someone would be mentioning Animorphs.

[@AnimeShinigami13]

@@marxtheenigma873 Ten year old me saw a construction site across from our local mall and was like "oh no the animorphs are real!" XD and my dad used the extra mass as a reason why they couldn't be. XD it worked though, I was like "yeah you're right, ye cannot change the laws of physics Jim."

[@AnimeShinigami13]

@@michaelcherokee8906 I aim to please looooooooool and now I know where the idea for the Yeerks came from. X3 also I was like :o at the wormholes episode when Isaac explained the idea for Matt Visser's wormhole and I'm like. "OOOOOOOOOH that's where the name comes from!!!"

[@MySerpentine]

I was always annoyed that they didn't do more with the Peace Movement in that series.

[@twokn]

What a coincidence, I happened to watch the red dwarf episode "Psirens" today for the first time in years, quite a funny idea, the species use telepathy to convince victims that they're human so they can get close enough to feed on their brains 🤣 but one who makes its self a doppelganger of a ship crew member is foiled by the fact that the crew member really believes himself to be a legendary guitar player, when he actually isn't.. the other crew members give the doppelganger a guitar and it plays it so well that the crew shoot him right on the spot

[@jengleheimerschmitt7941]

I'm bingeing red dwarf right now. It's been years.

[@jengleheimerschmitt7941]

...someone mentioned red dwarf on one of Isaac's videos last week or so. That's what reminded me of it. I had to join some British streaming service to find it. Worth every penny. Every bit as good as I remember it.

[@twokn]

@@jengleheimerschmitt7941 yeah definitely there's some funny ideas they had, I really like the inquisitor episode. Fortunately it's on nearly constant re-runs on a channel called Dave here. I'll have to start from the beginning at some point again.

[@Valchrist1313]

@@twokn The Dave channel also funded a new series some years back, iirc.

[@rudyrobles8294]

Carl Sagan is an alien who lived among us for a while. He helped nudge us along a path. Pretty obvious.

[@VoidSpider69]

AMONGUS?!?!? 😱😱

[@stormstaunch6692]

Sus

[@addisonchow9798]

When the aliens are SUS.

[@Gatzucortezemmanuel357]

AMOGUS

[@RandomEvoTimes]

“Say the line Bart!”

[@UrdnotChuckles]

The alien anthropology aspect could certainly be something, if a culture had the tech to make doppelgangers and the like. Could do it Star Trek style, where they're not replacing anyone but instead having researchers show up one day as John Personman. Learn everything there is to know about another species by living as one of them, while also having an engineered body that was indistinguishable from any other individual on the planet.

[@Beeline_N]

What about an advanced version of metamorphosis? I read somewhere that caterpillars will dissolve its body in the cocoon and reforming as a butterfly with memories intact. An advanced version of that could be transforming into a completely different species, while only needing the targets genetic material like blood. Still won't get their memories, but might work

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

That is such a freaky thing that caterpillars and butterflies have.

[@FLPhotoCatcher]

There is a species in the series Babylon 5 that can metamorphosize. It's strange - just a day or so after wondering if there was any species in sci-fi that could metamorphosize, I saw the episode where the species spun a cocoon so that it could metamorphosize.

[@Dragrath1]

Note that this claim about caterpillars and other metamorphic insects bodies dissolving isn't true instead what happens is the same kind of cellular migration and structure forming found during conventional embryonic development in animals with more complex structures like wings having largely already been formed within the larvae's body. In this sense the restructuring is mostly the scaffolding to put those parts such as wings together into their functional adult form. Late development or instar caterpillars are also notably larger than the adult forms a consequence of needing lots of stored fats and other nutrients to complete the process but also because the adult organs are already present just not yet assembled. This is a consequence of complete metamorphosis having evolved from within the clade of insects with incomplete metamorphosis where they adapted to hatch prematurely into free living embryos with the nymph stage getting adapted into the pupae stage to allow the more rapid final assembly of the adult body from the already developed components. This would make it much less valuable for adapting into an invader sadly unless the shapeshifter is willing to wait possibly months for the associated structure development to occur. Even then some structures such as teeth take a disproportionately long time to develop new research looking at comparative fossil growth rates to modern birds seems to suggest that this was likely the real evolutionary advantage for the loss of teeth as it allows baby birds to grow up much faster.

[@JustOneAsbesto]

I spend way too much time thinking about how the DS9 changelings work. It's canon that their mass changes when they change shape, which is completely broken. They could turn into an ant, climb up to the ceiling right above your head, and decide to become a boulder instead. They could be a grain of rice on your fork and you wouldn't even know it. Splort. There's the episode in which Laas is fog on the promenade, and people are walking around in him. What if he got bored of being fog, and decided being a giant array of whirling lawnmower blades would be more fun? Or just nerve agent or something. The possibilities are truly horrifying, especially in a city.

[@thehermitman822]

I remember one that flew outside the ship in space. I think just for the freedom.

[@JustOneAsbesto]

@@thehermitman822 Yeah, that was Laas. He was pretty misanthropic. He preferred hanging out with "simpler" life forms. Played by H.G. Hertzler, the same guy who played Martok. And Sisko's captain in the very first shot of the show.

[@thehermitman822]

@@JustOneAsbesto I remember quite a few ppl became new characters from TNG to DS9. Of course it was harder to spot back then.

[@aod.42091]

I cant emphasize how nice and amazing it is to have decent length quality video content from you for so many years.

[@Johnrich395]

On the “digital imposter” point, there are currently criminals who do this to the elderly. My grandma got a call from “her granddaughter”, K. “K” said, “Grandma, I got in trouble and I need some money, please don’t tell my parents.”, to which my grandmother replied “my K wouldn’t call me ‘grandma’” *click*.

[@michaelcherokee8906]

That happened to my grandparents with the imposter trying to impersonate me. Fortunately for them, the imposter had an Indian accent, while I have a very American one. Plus they both had the shrewdness and caution that come with the wisdom of eight decades of life, so I dont think they wouldve been fooled even if the imposter had sounded like me. I honestly suspect that when you answer a call from a random number that is followed by several seconds of silence, the person on the other end is trying to get a voice sample of you so they can know as much about how you speak as possible, so Ive taken to answering unknown calls in Japanese. Good luck pulling an adequate voice sample from that!

[@Deathnotefan97]

So,some tried this on my grandfather My grandfather knew it was a scam (these types of scams fail significantly more often then they succeed, but they only need to succeed a few times to be lucrative) so he just told them to stay in prison (depending on which grandkid it was, he might actually say this for real)

[@richarddeese1991]

Thanks. As the Tleilaxu learned, too good a copy is no longer a copy. Also, it's possible that, in the future, an extremely sophisticated EEG would be like a fingerprint. Of course, you could also use real fingerprints, voice ID, eye scans, DNA, and presumably a whole suite of other stuff to weed out imposters. Even a digital mind should have some continuity of digital signature. But detecting it would always be an arms race against the perps. tavi.

[@Its-Just-Zip]

Ravenor returned is one of my favorite books in the Warhammer 40k setting, right up there with the rest of the Eisenhorn trilogy of series with Eisenhorn, Ravenor, and Bequin novels

[@ZanzatheDivine]

I hope you realise just what you have unleashed onto the world with this title...

[@youtubehandlesux]

amogus

[@saragos1216]

Sus

[@garmmermibe5397]

AMOGUS

[@davidroddini1512]

Brain slugs from the “puppet master” nebula?

[@Gatzucortezemmanuel357]

I honestly would’ve never thought I’d find shitposters in Issac Arthur’s videos lmao

[@PerfectAlibi1]

I had a brainslug a while back, it starved to death after a few days...

[@jedstanaland2897]

In startrek shapeshifters AKA changelings AKA fluidic intelligences have a few common traits. The list of common traits is that they don't have a defined shape, they are able mimic other things at least through shape if not shape and pigments. The biggest thing about the three different fluidic creatures that are shown in startrek is that they have the ability to produce a field that tricks scanners or are able to divert scanners around them or even stop them from scanning deeply enough to make the scanners think that the object is harmonious throughout and not a group of individual cells. The next thing is that the more detailed scanners actually are usually harder to find in any abundance.

[@RCI-qb1po]

A better solution for the Fermi paradox regarding your past videos is the fact that most stars are catechismic variable Stars and those Stars will hold back life from developing

[@BG101UK]

If brain slugs do arrive in the post I don't think I'd have too much to worry about, like Fry. (Love the Futurama references by the way). Thought-provoking as always Isaac, thanks! ☺

[@Eldagusto]

Haha I love that this starts off with a tick reference.

[@thehermitman822]

SPOOOOOOOOOON

[@boobah5643]

Yeah, it kinda felt like a monkey out of nowhere. Despite what Isaac's shown of his taste in pop culture.

[@zax2153]

Hey, i am glad you mentioned Heinlein. I have almost all of his books, he was really amazing author.

[@disbeafakename167]

Darn near a prognosticator.

[@zachandtheworld8841]

Hi, I love your videos! I have a condition called aphantasia. It means I can't see mental images or pictures in my mind. Have you ever made any videos on the topic of different ways alien or future human brains might be wired, or different ways of thinking/thought processes they might have?

[@disbeafakename167]

This would be interesting

[@thehermitman822]

I heard about that condition w/i the past yr and apparently many ppl have it but it's something that just didn't come up in conversations. Do you dream? Does your brain put emphasis on other things like verbal/number memory?

[@zachandtheworld8841]

@@thehermitman822 I do have visual dreams, but I don't dream very often. I dream on average maybe up to 10 times a year or so. I do pay more attention to exact wording when recalling things. Take a pig for example, and pretend you had never seen one before. Someone tells both of us that pigs are pink. I can tell you pigs are pink because I made a mental note of it. I can't conjure up some image in my mind of a pink animal, but I still know that one fact. On the other hand, you might try to picture a pink animal of some sort.

[@zachandtheworld8841]

@@thehermitman822 I'm pretty bad with recognizing faces. If a stranger asks me to go grab a drink for them and come find them after, I wouldn't be able to find them unless I make a mental note about either the color of their shirt, or a distinctive feature like a haircut that stands out, or a very large nose or unusually small lips. In order for me to recognize someone 100% of the time, I have to be around them for 4 to 5 hours so I can get a good idea of what their face looks like. I have no problem recognizing people I've known for a while though, thankfully.

[@thehermitman822]

@@zachandtheworld8841 What's funny is pigs are typically "pink" the way Caucasians are. 😆

[@toddzircher6168]

Ha! My last play through of a sci-fi game featured an infiltrating mimic that turned traitor after absorbing too much of the the target's personality.

[@uniquename6925]

I love this trope, especially the "host personality/will is too strong" tropes. Like, imagine being a top predator, literally preying on the minds of other species. And then the host goes "I'm not stuck in here with you, you're stuck in here with me!" That'd be my worst nightmare (if i was a mind parasite).

[@Mustachioed_Mollusk]

Kind of wish you hired a voice actor to imitate your voice for the first 5 minutes. Drive home that, "wait a minute" sensation.

[@thehermitman822]

Patrick Stewart. 😆

[@jimc.goodfellas]

That would have been pretty cool

[@flickflack]

Maybe he did! Dun dun dunnnnnn

[@Mustachioed_Mollusk]

@@flickflack lol Isaac is always 3 parallel universes ahead of us!

[@sulljoh1]

He really should have

[@0mn1vore]

I could see an alien's ethical framework making infiltration / manipulation preferable to invasion. It's not harmless, but is less disruptive than warfare, and you can get what you want from the locals without upsetting them too much.

[@Grizabeebles]

In the 2005 Captain Scarlet remake, the alien infiltrators become *so much* like people they they replace that some of them become conscientious objectors. It's a neat twist on the formula that more shows should steal in my opinion.

[@FlatWorld_Jomhuri_Regime]

No one can Doppelgänger the Ulster Scots, a race which is so Giga Chad even a parallel universe cannot.

[@danielsmith336]

There is a movie called The Vivarium in which a humanoid mimic species with the ability to move between universes in the multiverse uses ours to kidnap people to raise their young as brood parasites. The human couple is lured into a pocket dimension under the pretense of visiting a new housing development. Once inside, they are unable to leave. All attempts to do so result in them returning to the same house. They are then forced to raise a human mimic that matures in about a year. They are slowly dying of vitamin deficiencies the whole time and experience madness from their inability to escape the pocket universe along with the uncanny valley behavior of their parasite child.

[@danielsmith336]

@@priapulida Well, considering that within the first 2 or 3 minutes of the video that I commented on Issac had already summarized an entire episode of a show, probably not?

[@josephthomas4797]

I was really digging all the Warhammer 40k highlights. Awesome work!!!

[@InquisitorThomas]

I’m not going to say it… I’m not going to say it… I’m not going to say it… AMONGUS!!!

[@thehermitman822]

Sus

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

I think you meant to say the thing

[@eliotoole4534]

0:28 the biggest red flag more than one world leader agreeing on something

[@springbloom5940]

The Thing and Invasion of the Body Snatchers, are lifelong recurrent nightmares, since I saw them as a child. Snatchers, as my 7 year old self dubbed, is the most pervasive. I just run and run and run, as everyone turns against me. Its exhilarating.

[@SapioiT]

There is also the option of taking people who are going to die, reading their memories, then fixing them up and releasing them somewhere close to civilization with a bad case of amnesia in the form of "I have no idea how the past week/month went by, the last thing I remember is nearly dying, which is probably a dream because I'm still alive", with the memories from multiple people then used to make a new person who claims political asylum, buy a citizenship, or otherwise get an identity in a country, then use multiple of those people to create a family or a small secretive community which to serve as a way to introduce multiple brand-new people with vast knowledge, good genetics, and likely top-tier skills (thanks to their knowledge and the knowledge of everyone else they saved), and then use those to infiltrate the highest tiers of society and covertly take over or keep them in check through politics (wars, civil unrest, intentionally bad investment, multi-tiered citizenship (caste system), traitism (i.e. racism, religion, culture, country, settlement (city, town, village, etc.), etc.), and alien-aided "natural" disasters (i.e. gently shoving an asteroid to create a tsunami, using hidden bombs to create earthquakes, use mirrors behind the star to get more sunlight onto the planet or a certain part of the planet, guide asteroids into becoming space dust which to cover the star's light reaching the planet). Once there is a large, powerful, and influential group on that planet or in that civilization, hiding things become easier, and making new identities also becomes easier, especially since you can replace agents if they want to retire, who get different jobs, or who might not want to be part of the cause anymore, especially celebrities or influential people who might start to turn on you. From there, you can do pretty much whatever you want, be it using them as a cheaper workforce for things which are very low tech for you and up to high tech for them (i.e. having them mine and refine ores, up to having them create low-tech machinery for you, in exchange for medicine or for a "super-material" they could use for war or for building (i.e. cement or geopolymer, used to build larger buildings, damns, skyscrapers, or simply sturdier roads), and tweaking the recipe to make them dependent on you for a much longer time, ideally many generations). Not only that, but you could even have them build the most basic infrastructure for your needs, then phasing them out slower (through things like wide-spread infertility, wide-spread slowly-deadly radiation, poisoning of the water and food sources, climate change to introduce a climate more preferable to you, fauna change to introduce a fauna more preferable to you, or simply help overpopulate animals which to prey on them) or quicker (through things like war, viruses, chemical agents, biological agents, or widespread famine). And when you reduced the population enough, you could offer them to turn the existing people or their kids into the higher culture, and slowly have the natives go extinct. Or you could use genetic engineering to downlift them into cattle or uplift them into your own species, the later allowing you to slowly convert civilizations into your civilization and maybe strengthen your genetic pool even more as an intentional or unintentional byproduct, the former being a more ethical way to remove them than outright genocide.

[@Deathnotefan97]

I recall an episode of the anime “Space Dandy” where the doppelgänger alien impersonates Space Dandy, but it so perfect in the mimicry, that neither the imposter nor Space Dandy himself know which is real, and that is identity confusion is a common thing for that species It’s mainly a comedy series, so this is played for laughs

[@benw9949]

One of the biggest problems with any "aliens" in real life scenarios seems to be, how likely are they really to have both a physical form and a mental, emotional,. psychological makeup that are so vastly different from humans (maybe from anything on Earth) that blending in or imposters are impossible; even basic understanding and communication could be difficult, though not impossible. All those Star Trek tropes where humans or aliens are disguised or surgically / genetically altered to appear to be another species, for spies or for anthropology, seems like it wouldn't be likely to work. Even if aliens might be similar, there would be proportions, overall sizes, body plans, psych / emotional issues, much that would make that highly unlikely or just not doable. If you genetically modify a being to be another species from another planet, isn't that going to be extreme, requiring a Long time to do it? And if you do it, what is that being now? Truly human or alien? There's a very old Outer Limits or Twilight Zone episode where they transform an astronaut / G.I. into a creature to live on some other planet and they bring him / it back, but how much that creature is still the original man or how much it is now an alien is never quite answered. The show used a puppet of some kind, but supposedly the episode was banned at the time, or nearly so, or they couldn't quite show the alien, because it ws deemed too horrific for TV. Of course, when we see it now, it looks both grotesque and laughable for the special effects f the time. Anyway, the ideas behind that are still very interesting. -- All that said, could there be aliens (or humans) who could mimic each other? Yes, maybe so. Some very good science fiction has been written and filmed abut it. So my objections over realism in what aliens might be like is its own tangent. (Also, Isaac Arthur is more than smart enough to have thought of this.)

[@martinkrehbiel560]

Rule #1 of warfare: All is well :)

[@mkrafts8519]

You're such a gifted and intelligent person. Epic deductional capabilities. You noted correctly that aliens which are smart enough to mimic and do the job of the opposing species would logically not need to mimic as they were smart enough to control by other means. Or contrastingly that if they were the best of their class among their species, they wouldn't be used for clandestine ops. Perhaps the justification is the alien species were in a transitionary phase and they are passing through as refugees. But their intelligence being one of the only things they salvaged from their wreckage. Then it makes sense why their leverage would be so disproportionate and weirdly directed.

[@flickflack]

Mmm... Guess I have an updated excuse to avoid my picture taken. Out with "it'll steal my soul" and in with "I don't want alien impersonators to have a robust portfolio".

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

The amount of joy I experience whenever a new SFIA comes out is immense! Keep up the excellence Isaac

[@whatevs53665]

This video is mainly about technology, and it's pretty great. But I've always wondered to what extend the classic "body-snatcher" would be possible in real life biologically. Can a small parasite control the entire brain of a human-level intelligence? Where would the original consciousness go? Would the parasite have issues adjusting? How would they breed? Would they have a "true" form?

[@michaelmoorrees3585]

Yeah, "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" was made twice. 1956 & 1978. I prefer the older one, because I grew up in the town, that they used for some of the location sets, and I passed by those, quite often, when living there.

[@jengleheimerschmitt7941]

They already do. look up Toxoplasmosis.

[@isaackellogg3493]

@@jengleheimerschmitt7941 toxoplasmosis famously makes women more promiscuous and men more oppositionally defiant and paranoid. One of the stated reasons for breaking away from Britain was that King George was going to take all our rights away and reduce us to the status of slaves-this is in the Declaration of Independence. There is no historical evidence that George III planned to do this, but there is widespread evidence that enormous numbers of people believed it. Count the number of Founding Fathers who owned cats, and you will draw an appalling conclusion as to the source of our Revolution.

[@jengleheimerschmitt7941]

@@isaackellogg3493 Deciphering this response requires more of my attention than I can summon at this moment...

[@isaackellogg3493]

@@jengleheimerschmitt7941 cat worms made conspiracy theorists hold a War of Independence. There. Deciphered that for you.

[@sumbius1576]

This time it was Frank Herberts Dune and often you reference Alastair Reynolds who are both great authors but please consider reading Stephen R. Donaldson's The Gap Cycle (amazing series on brain chemistry alteration) and ofcourse Stephen Baxter's Xeelee sequence series. Plenty of potential references there

[@Shatterverse]

In Matrix 3 a copy of Smith burned itself into a human resistance member's mind, and it took a while to get it to take. He wasn't even very good at it, not acting like the guy at all, but it was _good enough_ to do a lot of damage.

[@coolcatscomix1761]

Man these shape changer's and doppelgangers, mimmics, & body snatchers , just keep coming! Even the time traveling terminators have trouble finding the right targets with all the SIM variants!

[@wefuntw]

Fermi paradox solved -- Aliens are among us already , and we pretend they don't exist.

[@CartoonHero1986]

There are a few Lovecraft stories that kind of have interesting Impostor Alien storylines like The Shadow Out of Time where ancient aliens mind swap with other species all over space and time to gather information and prolong their species existence beyond extinction events. Some thoughts on those Warhammer Shape Shifters and their bones changing structure. Since they mention it is painful just to use the drug in the first place my guess would be something like nano tech or replicator tech that augments the skeleton in some way to build and destroy the bones to change length/shape. But then this brings up the issue of power sources and raw material acquisition for said tech, but in this case I think to hand wave the answer as "because; future..." is alright lol.

[@jengleheimerschmitt7941]

PKD's "The Hanging Stranger" is killer short story about replacement.

[@CartoonHero1986]

@@jengleheimerschmitt7941 Thanks I'll take a look at that one :)

[@loganlabbe9767]

Travelers is a great show about this where time travelers go back in time and overwrite the consciousness of someone who was about to die, save their life and then occupy it

[@nonsequitor]

2:54 clones that end up sympathising: Westworld series deserves a shout for that particular angle plus some twists !

[@cavemaneca]

This reminds me of the Giants series by James P. Hogan. In that series, humanity was actually a transplant from a new destroyed planet in our solar system. A war of 2 major factions was the cause, with one faction settling Earth and forgetting their origins while the other came under the protection of an advanced civilization. Said advanced civilization puts Earth under surveillance in case they get all warlike again, but unbeknownst to them the Faction under their wing has infiltrated Earth and is causing turmoil in order to lead their overlords into drastic action against Earth.

[@Shatterverse]

A joke a friend of mine and I once used to make was that the best way to determine if somebody wasn't a real human / from earth / etc., was to ask stupidly simple questions and jokes, our go-to being "why did the chicken cross the road?" since we're Americans. You carefully watch and listen to their reaction, because an actual, recognizable person should react in a way one of us would - maybe and eyeroll or groan, a head shake and sarcastic delivery, or in our case, any punchline _except_ the "correct" one. I haven't seen him in years but if he did and I asked him the question and he didn't reply with something off-beat like "because it was duct taped to the horse" I'd know he was an imposter. Same would go for any suspicious person _in their native context._ I wouldn't ask that of somebody from rural India that barely speaks English, for example, because I don't know what kind of answer or behavior to expect from them. That kind of context matters. If you've ever seen _Inglorious Basterds_ then you know the bar infiltration scene where the spy fucks up with something very, very minor and things go to hell with a quickness, but in a context where that difference is huge when you're under intense scrutiny.

[@isaackellogg3493]

This was done fairly well, with no attention drawn to it, in _The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the Eighth Dimension_. One group of aliens hiding out on Earth noticed the commonest English name was John, so they figured that if they all got legal IDs as John (Fill In The Blank), no one would notice. (they were all employed at the same company, and no one not named John was employed there). Another group from the same planet thirty-five years later scanned a part of Earth to see what the humans were wearing now, and disguised themselves as that, so they could blend in better. The place they scanned was Jamaica, so they figured they’d be nicely inconspicuous walking around New Jersey as Rastafarians.

[@darkmarc]

Iain M. Banks had one of his "The Culture" novels centered around a member of a changeling race like this, it was one of his most interesting characters.

[@TheCrazyCapMaster]

My first thought on hearing that intro was “watch it legitimately be a whole-hearted display of friendship and everyone is actually fine/uncontrolled” 🤣

[@evensgrey]

There was also a predatory alien shapeshifter in the ST:TNG episode "Aquiel," which conceals itself as it's most recently consumed meal. It appears to be inteligent and can override the simulated organism's behavior, but appears to mostly just automatically mimic it until such time as it needs to feed again. It also doesn't attack from an optimal ambush, so perhaps it isn't all that smart, either, since of three humans it attacks in the story, two escape, one not knowing anything about it before hand.

[@0mn1vore]

Reminds me of that time Dolly Parton lost a Dolly Parton lookalike contest. Could happen to any of us, especially if the doppleganger's good at their job.

[@isaackellogg3493]

Part of that is, Dolly’s not a natural blonde. She has only ever appeared on stage in a wig, so it’s easier to hide from paparazzi.

[@disbeafakename167]

I get a kick whenever your Army time pops up. From what I've picked up, we were in or attached to in my case, the same Division in Iraq at the same time.

[@rogerbeckner6419]

For another type of impostor/infiltrator/sympathetic spy, consider the 'Hooded Swan' series of books from Brian M. Stableford. The Halcyon Drift is the start of the series, and you get to see the pluses and minuses of the situation early on and how they relate to both entities. Both entities grow and mature throughout the series which is capped in the finale of 'Swan Song'. Also, Stableford uses multiple ideas for translight travel; one I like called Mass Relaxation. Six books in the series, written in the mid-seventies.

[@tiagotiagot]

08:07 Regarding the indestructible nanoswarm thing; couldn't something approaching that be achieved by having a high proportion of manipulated raw material ("liquid metal") to the volume of true "smart matter", like for example nanobots that use magnetic fields to manipulate a large amount of magnetic material around them, so that the smart stuff is mostly shielded from damage, and the bulk of the material is just some normal substance with good chemical stability under a high range of pressures and temperatures?

[@mheermance]

I'll pass on that vacation. Also, I have these sunglasses you need to try on and look around with. I think you'll find them illuminating.

[@tanin34]

I'm running a D&D campaign with a premise like this. It's only on its second session!

[@omnipedia-tech]

A well-timed video title given Disney's announcement of Secret Invasion yesterday. My whole feed is filled with fan discussions talking about doppelgangers.

[@Shatterverse]

Okay that intro was fucking hilarious, thank you.

[@jamesasimmons]

The Robin Cook novel "Virus" has the most the interesting twist on this. In the story earth is invaded by intelligent viruses that had pebble size interstellar spaceships. The ships were ignored since they looked like a normal metor shower. When people picked them up they thought it was a cut but it was a invading army going into the blood stream. Toward the end of the novel the controlled people had a hard time knowing who wasn't infected.

[@evensgrey]

Using this for anthropology: This is the entire premise of "3rd Rock from the Sun". Although half the humor is from the alien imposters being BAD at it.

[@clash3583]

IMPOSTERS???????

[@tite93]

This reminds me of a Stellaris species portait, which looks like a normal mammal, but there's a little slug attached to it and it's a bit off

[@tarotreadingsbysteven8545]

Speaking of hiveminds I've often wondered what might be possible if we developed in the route of high specialization. Like some people are engineered to be strong and sturdy for hard work and those who upload their minds becoming a hivemind while using individual mechanical or mechanical/biological bodies allowing near instantaneous communication and learning across great distances

[@Bob-lr2xp]

African mythology has firefly body snatchers called Anze (pronounced aaanz). Basically these firefly monsters fly inside a person, usually the nose, and possess their body. They have some telltale signs, though, such as a taste for drinking entire bowls of palm oil.

[@Big.Ron1]

Opening day football, a new edition here and another on Nebla. It is a good day. I have been very busy so this is the perfect day off for me. Thank you.

[@bshinn4884]

They Live was always one of the best lol The Invasion of the body snatchers terrified me when I was younger

[@gzbd0118]

Shout out for the Iain Banks novella The State of the Art which features alien Culture agents as undercover anthropologists on Earth, and the novel Inversions which has a pair of--presumably--Culture agents infiltrated inside two warring governments on a medieval era planet.

[@aserta]

Stargate SG1 was really in love with this one. I think there's... 5 different scenarios and several episodes, and that's outside the whole take-over scheme which ... could be stretched into this (almost, but not cigar). edit: LOL

[@rolandkerr577]

Slight protest at your point that shapeshifters impersonating human leaders would have the capacity to impersonate their own civilisation's leaders: Both comedically and literally, an interstellar species would have higher standards for the basic competency of a leader. It's easy to impersonate ours because they don't actually do much other than be physically present.

[@isaackellogg3493]

If a shapeshifting alien could mimic the shape/voice/personality of its own leaders, that species’ IFF protocols would evolve in such a way as to emphasize some trait distinct for not being easily mimickable. For instance, humans invented last names so you could tell Unga Bunga Smith from Unga Bunga Son of Mogh, and later developed Social Security Numbers. A perfect example is fingerprints, which were adopted by criminologists because the previous method of telling people apart-Bertillon measurements-had been accidentally spoofed by a natural doppelgänger who even had the same name as the prime, William West.

[@kobebarka8633]

No matter the day of the week it’s always great to get a new video from Isaac! Live long and prosper friends 🖖🏻

[@chriscomp20]

I legit had to check the day, since i automatically assumed it was thursday morning.

[@thehermitman822]

Live proper and last.

[@ramuk1933]

What about intentionally creating a copy for yourself to create music, discoveries, or even KZbin videos?

[@miserychickadee]

The problem with some of the best stories that hinge on a doppleganger as a key plot point is that you can't recommend them as such without spoiling and ruining the story.

[@verdantpulse5185]

Many of these concepts I first encountered in James Schmitz's _The Other Likeness_, 1962.

[@michaelmcchesney6645]

I'm a huge Heinlein fan and first read The Puppet Masters well over 40 years ago. It was made into a movie in 1994 starring Donald Sutherland. If anyone is interested in watching it, it can be streamed on Hoopla (which requires your public library to subscribe to it) or Redbox (with ads). It can also be rented for $4 or purchased for $10. It's an enjoyable film, if not quite the special effects heavy romp that is Starship Troopers.

[@garmmermibe5397]

When the imposter is SUS!

[@Randy.Bobandy]

You’re a cool guy, Isaac. Wish I could be more like you.

[@benw9949]

I've just realized, I don't think I ever read the Puppet Masters. -- That Trek TOS Mirror universe episode, with Spock's beard, was so well done; not just Spoken. Funny, he looked so good with that goatee. -- Star Trek did a really unusual inversion of the alien symbiosis trope with the Trill. How that could really evolve, I don't know. But the concept, a benevolent symbiosis instead of evil parasites invading, was really productive, story-wise. -- The variations on this trope do make for some scary-fun science fiction stories, though often B-movies when done in video. The Alien movies are probably the best exceptions, and the Stargate franchise Go'aould, besides the Trill in Star Trek. I wonder, do the Borg and Cybermen count in this trope? Kinda.

[@caleblowe830]

I was waiting for the futurama brain slugs, so happy they made an appearance.

[@Shatterverse]

Dr Who did the 'sympathy for the target' thing to the extreme with the Zygons and it was interesting.

[@RogerWKnight]

The opening meme of aliens inviting humans to their resort reminds me of To Serve Man (is a cookbook!)

[@umbraelegios4130]

March Upcountry - David Weber/ John Ringo Tutorial Implants ("Toots") - An implanted computer processor that interfaces completely with human neural systems without adverse side effects. Used primarily for data processing, storage and training, the toot augments a persons learning capability, including the use of assassination programs (for better marksmanship) or translating alien languages. The device can, in fact, take over for the person and allow him to perform tasks more efficiently. However, it is a security planner's nightmare, as the toot can be hacked and the person forced to do a task against their will (as if they'd been possessed by a demon). People whose toots have been hacked are called "toot zombies" or "toombies".

[@katherinestives940]

The alien in "Who Goes There" was not animalistic. Near the end of the story, (without going into too many specifics) the one that was isolated had, during its isolation, built an anti-gravity harness and a light that generated light without heat with spare parts it scrounged from the camp. This is hardly primitive or animalistic behavior. Sorry for the comment, but that *is* one of my favorite stories.

[@karkovice10]

What you said at the beginning of your video sounds strangely like the classic Twilight Zone episode "To Serve Man". :P

[@Sparticulous]

The invasion of the body snatchers is such a great movie

[@nailboard6492]

Best infiltration method is as follows: (if you're an alien) 1.) Abduct Pregnant Human Female/Female 2.) Implant Replicant/Replace real baby with replicant with near-perfect resemblance to the genuine article 3.) Any "defects" will be noted from time of birth by Humans and not seen as suspicious, personality can be established by custom adaptive protocols, by algorithm or pre-programmed. 4.) Replicant matures, excels in desired field, begins path to high-level infiltration and awaits orders while relaying intelligence. The replicant would need a two tiered personality, one over-mind to execute the mission and a sub-mind which acts as the infiltration program. A hostile alien species would likely seek to take over high level government and military positions along with financial institutions, their overall goals determine how this infiltration is used. A peaceful alien species would only use such a technology for anthropological reasons and would not replace existing Humans but would instead opt for genuine birthing of replicants. It is likely that anthropological replicants would only have their information collected after death and would not have the need for a split personality. Then of course, if you're an alien who has come to Earth then you only need one cell of replicant DNA to recover all of its collected information.... all thanks to having a good understanding of quantum mechanics.

[@Corey_Brandt]

Among us?

[@luciferangelica4827]

so for these catoms, would you need to add to mass if their ability to switch forms was the function of excited states, which when lowered again to settle in x number of possible forms? if that makes any sense

[@solinvictus6562]

Red SFIA stamp is back! Hell yea

[@evensgrey]

The question of why the infiltrator specialists aren't running things back home if they're so good at everything comes up in later Dune novels. Eventually, it turns out that the last Tlielaxu Master is actually one of their newer type of Facedancers, which are telepathic and subject to becoming the individual they replace, down to the detailed biology.

[@rmeddy]

Good timing with that Secret Invasion trailer

[@aceundead4750]

The Phyrexians found an almost perfect method of creating sleeper agents, granted they're from MTG so they dont really get to count for this since they use magic.

[@aliveandwellinisrael2507]

4:15 Plot twist: the cats are being made to do this by the toxoplasma gondii parasite in order to infect us (see: crazy cat ladies)

[@atlas4733]

“The deathworlders” involves a cabal of uploaded sapients influencing galactic events using their control over the translator brain implant industry, which are made to their specifications.

[@mike-0451]

Imposters and doppelgängers 😳