A Deeper Look at Progressive Christian Theology with R. Scott Smith - The Alisa Childers podcast #43

[@incelticknots]

Interesting how pushing back against a perspective that puts too much emphasis on the spiritual side of things can end up disregarding the spiritual side entirely. We are both physical and spiritual and we embrace dangerous errors when we neglect either one or the other!

[@jdbriscoe6658]

Yes! Grace and Truth, I love how you brought that up. Thank you.

[@kurtanderson5023]

A commenter known as C B has often commented on these videos. Be aware. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He appears very interested in truth yet he attempts to mislead others. He mischaracterizes the Gospel and the earthly ministry of Christ. He shares his progressive religious beliefs in an attempt to weaken the faith of those who come here. Be careful not to be caught in his web of deceit.

[@marvinlorenzana8693]

Lp

[@CB-fb5mi]

Didn’t see this until now...wow. Thanks for calling someone you don’t know a wolf. Grace and Peace to you friend...

[@KristiLEvans1]

@@CB-fb5mi it is based upon not you, as a person, but what you say about your theology. The person is just putting out what they think is concerning/false teachings.

[@tuppence144]

Phew! This is higher grade teaching.🎓 Wish I had discovered you sooner Alisa. ⚘

[@davidolson8537]

You caught her best conversation so far....by far.

[@davidolson8537]

We are...already in relationship to God. As children of God. As “created by” God. That’s a pretty strong evidence of relationship.

[@dontrunify]

divorce and remarriage, is it a sin? what does the bible say?

[@biccolo1393]

I know this is a year after you commented this so I'm not certain if you're still asking this question or not haha but if you go over to a channel call Mike Winger and his channel theme is Bible thinker. He has an exhaustive teaching on divorce and remarriage. There are a couple of things I think he stretches a little too far out of the scriptures but for the most part his teaching seems to be fairly consistent with scripture If you're ready for a 3-hour exhaustive video, I hope that that blesses you.

[@dontrunify]

@@biccolo1393 Thanks. I have watched the video already. I have also done my own research and found out one cannot divorce. But thank you for your help?

[@biccolo1393]

@@dontrunify You're welcome and may God and the truth of the Scriptures continue to guide you! Blessings!

[@denisesmith3544]

I've always despaired over my self-perceived lack of intelligence. Now however listening to the pontifications of these "progressives" I am thankful for my average I.Q.! Seems a superior intellect can cause much over-thinking & the occasion to be led astray from the simplicity of the gospel.

[@debbieann2078]

Hi I have been given a hole in the gospel to read off a Christian friend !is this a progressive Christian book...great vidio

[@dabbler1166]

I don't go to church. I used to. But I didn't quit because I'm "progressive". I'm not. Churches are too Lax. Period. (more below)-- Any church that wont, or hasn't ever, dis-fellowshipped any member, isn't worth joining! (my opinion). Why? Because then they don't have standards. Nothing matters. Its all Blue Jeans, shirts hanging out like a slob, with cheap sneakers shoes and disgustingly loud "rockin' for God" music. No sense of Reverence. or Awe. (more below).. This progressive stuff seems to be the same (or maybe a renamed & re-packaged) "EMERGENT Church" that folks were talking more about in say 2015-2019. Brian McLaren? Tony Jones? Rob Bell? Aren't these all "emergent" writers? I ask you: WHO??- ever leaves the church saying: Brian McLaren, or Bell, or Hatmaker made me lose all Faith in Christianity, so I left. Maybe half of one percent? if that. These folks are "little barking dogs" not worth your time. Its the "questions skeptics ask" and the lack of Satisfying/convincing answers that is the reason people leave. THAT's where the focus should be. It will be said we already have apologists for that, but they fail far too often. There should not be any need to use words like "Phenomenologically", "ontologically", and so on. People hear that, immediately feel that here is yet another apologist doing "gymnastics" and being waayyy to long-winded to explain "truth", which, if it really is Truth, should be simpler in the 1st place. Since when did Jesus use words like "Epistemology", all sorts of "isms", etc. ? People are alert to this and you WILL be written-off/ignored as just one more "used car salesman" trying to defend the Faith and STILL not giving convincing answers. So...people leave. (continued).. STOP trying to make everything in Life the churches job! (said to the progressives). Progressive Christianity is wrong. There is no discipline or descipleship in progressive churches. Everything is your own conscience and how you feel about it. Sin is very downplayed and nearly "Relative-ized" out of existence. Church isnt only about social justice. Or "understanding the Black experience". or "white experience" either, for that matter. Jesus wasn't white, or black, was he? Church isnt about accepting butt-ramming Fags. (Why dignify perversion?) SODOMY still is a crime. God destroyed 2 whole cities, Sodom & Gemorrah over it. He doesn't approve. Read ROMANS 1, verses 26-28. More and more people seem to be "DE-constructing". Why? Because they go to college and and dont have comebacks for Philosophy and Theology professors or they read an Atheist book and can't disprove it, so...they give up their faith.And so--- What NEEDS to happen, and ISN'T happening is this: Back in the 70s, Josh McDowell writes "Evidence that Demands a Verdict". and then-- Jeffrey Jay Lowder writes a skeptical CRITIQUE of McDowall-- BUT-- Nnooooobody (that I am aware of) has written ANYTHING to then immediately COUNTER or disprove Lowder, or Dan Barker, or Robert M. Price or Sam Harris, etc). So...people think that Lowder & the skeptics "won", and more folks fall away. (more below).. The BIG PROBLEM is: The Christians DON'T make a comeback-book to disprove the skeptic! WHO WILL WRITE "the Comeback" to Dan Barker's "Losing Faith in Faith"?? and- WHO WILL WRITE the counter-arguments book to Robert M. Price's book: The Case Against The Case for Christ"? Who will show that Bart Ehrman is wrong? Who will disprove "naturalism"? Christians need to counter and "convince the gainsayer". Instead, they just re-state their beliefs as true and hope nobody notices the skeptic books. It's unaddressed! No wonder so many more people are "DE-constructing". Fix that, if it can be done.

[@CB-fb5mi]

This is a genuine question for Alisa, Scott, and any listener who generally agrees with them: If you were a devout Jewish person in the early 1st century, what would you have thought of Jesus and his followers? You would have been brought up with a solid sense of what your 'historic, orthodox faith' was. You would have had firm theological boundaries from your tradition. You would have known when someone was staying inside the guardrails of your tradition and when someone was attempting to evolve and redefine your faith. Then you encounter a radical preacher named Jesus and his strange band of followers. He claims the authority to redefine the tradition, to 'fulfill' it even. He openly flaunts the 'solid' theologians and established religious authorities. He breaks religious rules that are based in sacred Scripture and upends centuries of established interpretation of Scripture. Even if you had seen something miraculous, it would have been well known that false prophets could use demonic power to do astonishing things. What on earth would you make of all this? If your attitude about the emergent church and your faith in so-called 'historic orthodox Christianity" is any guide, then the answer is pretty clear: You would have called Jesus a heretic.

[@ferdikotze8440]

Jesus fulfilled more than 300 prophecies, which many of them were specific Messianic signs, and No, He did not break any of the laws, he brought them into perspective, the Jewish world was allot different at the time Jesus/Yeshuah entered the picture, but a good question

[@CB-fb5mi]

Ferdi Kotze Thanks for engaging with the question. Leaving aside some of the obvious and frequently debated issues around Jesus fulfilling OT prophecy, how would you have differentiated Jesus of Nazareth from the many other messianic/apocalyptic figures in his day? There were hundreds of similar figures in his era. I think conservative Christians just assume they would somehow have been able to let go of their belief system and follow Jesus, when the entire point of the gospels is that most conservative religious people were unwilling to do that, even after supposedly seeing miracles. As for breaking scriptural laws he is clearly presented as doing that in the gospels, I think you have to play highly motivated hermeneutical games to get around that. I would check out this article from Greg Boyd in 2017, he goes into more detail... reknew.org/2017/01/jesus-refuted-old-testament-laws/

[@ferdikotze8440]

@@CB-fb5mi you would have to state which laws he broke?

[@ferdikotze8440]

@@CB-fb5mi there are some Hermeneutical issues with the link you posted😉

[@CB-fb5mi]

@@ferdikotze8440 Its covered in the article. The pharisees in Matthew 12 knew what Exodus 16 and 34 said, they knew what Numbers 15 said. Gathering food on the Sabbath was prohibited, 'God' ordered someone put to death for merely picking up sticks on the Sabbath. They had every scriptural right to challenge Jesus about what his disciples were doing. Did he respond by arguing that they were not really breaking any religious law, no, he claims to be 'Lord of the Sabbath'. Furthermore the Torah was a living tradition, there was no clear line between the original authorial intent and the current religious communities interpretation of it. Jews did not read their Bible the way conservative Christians do, then or now. Paul makes this ragingly obvious in Galatians 4:21-31. It is not just Jesus and issues with the Sabbath either. Peter tells the Lord 'surely not!', because he knows damn well that he was being asked to break religious law. For so many years when I was an Evangelical and would feel the Spirit push for things like full LGBT equality and inclusion, my response was 'surely not, Lord! I am a Bible believing Christian...'. I read the Bible my whole life, but it wasn't until I could see that it is not infallible, that I could actually understand the kind of journey that Paul and Peter went on, and why Jesus was killed.