Iraq to Mali: The changing calculus of war | Empire

It has been 10 years since the US-led invasion of Iraq, which marked a turning point in the West's so-called war on terror.
The pretext of the Iraq war was security and freedom, but the bombastic and openly pronounced objective was no less than remaking the greater Middle East region.
For Iraq, the invasion and occupation were cataclysmic. It claimed hundreds of thousands of lives, smashed the country's infrastructure, and tore its social fabric apart with a civil war that continues to kill hundreds of Iraqis a month. Baghdad - a cosmopolitan capital for thousands of years - has been reduced to a cluster of walled ghettos, armed against each other.
For the US, Iraq became a quagmire and a humiliation - a strategic and moral failure that the country has spent the last four years trying to forget.
President Barack Obama entered the White House with the promise of a new relationship with the Arab and Muslim world. His administration is withdrawing troops and replacing them with airstrikes, drones, and a surge of special forces. But how much has America's calculus of war really changed?
And as Africa becomes the new frontline in the 'war on terror', have the Europeans learnt from America's mistakes?
Shortly after sending fighter jets and troops into Mali, French President Francois Hollande said: "We will stay...for as long as it’s necessary to ensure victory over terrorism.” That is the same socialist president who recently told his people that there would be: “no men on the ground, no engagement by French troops” and that France would only provide "material support" to Mali’s armed forces.
The twists and turns of the West’s endless 'war on terror' continue to confound and confuse.
Empire explores the merits, objectives, costs and morality of these wars with our guests: John Nagl, a retired Lieutenant Colonel who co-authored the US army and Marine Corps Counterinsurgency Field Manual; Jean Marie Guehenno, the director of the Center of International Conflict Resolution at Columbia University, and former United Nations under secretary general for Peacekeeping Operations; Barbara Bodine, a professor at Princeton University and a former US Ambassador to the Republic of Yemen who also served with the Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance in Iraq; and Christopher Hedges, a senior fellow at The Nation Institute, former New York Times Middle East bureau chief, and author of several books, including War is a Force That Gives us Meaning and Empire of Illusion.
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[@waverunnerMN]

Thank you for this discussion. Counter insurgency developed in El Salvador with Col Steele.

[@kendjinmusic]

Nobody sat round this table is admitting that the "false pretexts' were not mistakes, getting 60,000 troops stationed in the middle east was not an accident. Getting the oil was not an accident. The war was not a mistake, it cost slightly too much but I reckon the White house think it was worth it overall. The US is an empire, it's primary task is to gain resources and territory.

[@pirbird14]

It's not an accident when they keep doing the same thing over and over. And they've been doing this same thing since at least the Vietnam era.

[@AUSRashman]

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."-Gandhi

[@mitchparker693]

Are you against French intervention in general, or that they don't go everywhere they may be needed?

[@chrisheath3504]

Reading about the birth of a democracy, and the underlying structures that HAVE to be in place. Have these people (US government) not read Thomas Paine, Jefferson and so on? Many layers of society must work in coordination for 'democracy', including 'personal freedom', and popular sovereignty , and civil institutions to be in place. I suggest its extremely difficult to simply replace one 'system' with another one. The mind of a Middle Eastern, is also completely different from a Western mind.

[@algalib11]

people like you are less who understand what you said.may God give you more knowledge of truth.

[@ramdeshpande6189]

Detached US Dollar from petrol and check how long USA live by itself..

[@astienback]

It's really amusing to hear the french man arguing that france has interests in Africa which do not contradict African interests. Simply insane when one knows HOW DEPENDENT on its former colonies france remains, regarding the only places where france could outperform the German bulldozer - not for a long time though. Chinese are doing much better than france over there, bringing capital and know-how to fulfill African desires of development that NEVER france had taken seriously in account.

[@RaffaeKarim]

Hi!, I trust you more than I trust the american that wrote the comment above, how is the situation in Mali currently? You are there and then you must have some knowledge of what nations that are involved

[@sangif]

i agree with you 110 prosent

[@rosiethebear300]

They didn't give it much thought - they don;t care. Its all about money, resources and giving big opportunities to US corporations to get richer. Iraq never got the reconstruction money. Haliburtun did.

[@AnaMariaSirera1959]

The change is very little.

[@ramdeshpande6189]

America is not empire it is vampire

[@keithwelch2137]

100,000 - 1.5 million that's a huge gap.

[@jimilli09]

the strangest thing about it is that the US and the UN supports the new Malian regime. A regime that came to power by a coup.

[@jimilli09]

Who is this "group, rogue element" they speak of????

[@CushiticSomalianMale]

in a nutshell, you just explained their true identity and agenda ... -now thats integrity

[@slovokia]

are all afghan civilian deaths the fault of Nato? Or does the Taliban need to accept some responsibility too? Evidently the host has a hard time sorting out these issues.

[@SOLEMANHERE]

Barbara Bodine: yes. uh huh. thats right. mmm. lol

[@annoloki]

The war in Mali is about water, land, and the Malibya Canal. Google: "mali land grab"

[@Base.]

We get the French dude is trying to defend his president but admit it, you're in Mali for resources. How can opposing rebels potentially take over a nation? This show sucks. Nobody's telling the truth, except the host.

[@gaCREEKsweetheart]

Christopher is the only panel guest who appears to have sound and balance sense on the panel. He also speaks "truth to power" on this subject. Ango-American foreign policy makers need to open their eyes and stop interfering in other countries business and take care of domestic problems at home.

[@tosoledo]

Resources and territory don't worth much. Japan is the best example, small country with little resource but one of the most advance economy. Education, science, technology and competent government is the most important source of wealth. But the Bush regime was to stupid to know that. Imperialism is not a profitable thing for a country, it is a wast of resources that could have been invested in education, research and development or other thing more profitable for society.

[@lproth]

None of these people have been to Iraq.....except the commentator

[@emmatube6808]

WHY IS THE NO ROADS OR SCHOOLS WHERE THE UN OR NATO GO!

[@rosiethebear300]

These warmongering leaders (US/NATO) should lead on the battlefield!

[@Delta4ms]

"32:00" What is Al Qaeda?

[@CFCID]

usually al jazeera is pretty good but this hosts bias is always clear. at least try to disguise it

[@CptBritish]

(Cont) Even if we all just sit down and sing kumbaya for the next 60-70 years whats going to happen when the oil runs out? Lets see how fucking liberal and peace loving you'll be when your family is starving and cold. Humanity may have taken a step back from the edge in the Cold war but the swords are still drawn sadly our children will suffer because of todays liberal Governments...

[@hhdivil]

I can't believe I fell for the lies when we went into Iraq. Then again I was only 15.

[@zackabee5498]

We know that lot of you guys were fooled.

[@ciaran97]

aye no bother, sorry I called you a racist. It's not actually racist to be anti Islamist.

[@Hamlet137475]

I agree with many points the experts discussed about and it seemed pretty unanimous that US made many mistakes. But Mr. Bishara seems hellbent on vilifying America, asking questions to paint America as the real "evil." I realize it's the same on both sides, everyone always thinks the other guy is evil, but BIshara avoids some of the shortcomings of the MIddle East in fighting terrorism. The mediator here rubs me the wrong way, even though I agree w/many points in this discussion.

[@uyiewaen]

Please the French presence in Mali is very welcomed, there is no comparison between what happened in Iraq and Afghan to Mali. There is a direct threat in Mali, which makes sense for the French to intervene on request. Don't make it sound as if the French is there to conquer the Nation.Other African troops from West African Nation are there with the French, on the French request to assist in driving back the rebels.

[@marcelkiza5534]

This region is the old Eden Garden. God's personal property. Whoever invades this territory has to fall.

[@riveraa903]

+MARCEL KIZA the middle east is a wasteland, just conflict and unstable governments, the moment the western powers and china move to renewable energy the middle east will become a backwater region, nobody will care for the middle east.

[@josephgomalo41]

Yeah there may be an empire desire on the US side; but what excludes same desire on the islamists' side? Arent they building more mosques in europe and US itself while they turn westerner non thinking apologetics on islamization of their countries and slow penetration of sharia in western streets?

[@Nonamearisto]

The US won in Iraq. Our goal was to change the regime, and we did it. It was a quagmire, but thanks to the surge, we got ourselves out of it, then we went on to kill Bin Laden, overthrow Gadhafi, and assist France in killing the extremists in Mali. That, and our drone strikes are killing terrorists faster than they can be recruited. Between all that and the victory of Christian South Sudan, the West (and Christendom) is winning. South Sudan is a sure sign of it.