ALL ABOUT METALS PT 2 - Tutorial DWARF FORTRESS Alloy Guide

[@vitamanbgaming7146]

One thing that you've got to understand about alloys that seem sub-optimal compared to others or existing for only decorative purposes is that not everything in the game is practical on the surface. The payoff comes from the procedural nature of dorf psychology; by going deep into the character sheet of each inhabitant and their preferences one might like "nickle silver for its sheen" and "drinking from metal goblets" so if you have silver nickel goblets in a chest in the dining room then that dorf is going to have 3 happy thoughts every time he takes his drinky

[@Ic0nGaming]

Then I have understood the system correctly, I thank you for this comment.

[@MegaOgrady]

If they want so much anickle silver goblet then they can go mine, smelt and forge their own goddamn mug. Cuz in mah fortress, they have stone mugs

[@TheHuffur]

@@MegaOgrady ROCK AND STONE! uh... I mean, MUGS OF STONE!

[@MegaVidFan1]

Wow, very helpful comment! I had no idea that dwarf psych went so deep into how it affects their thoughts and memories!

[@TheHuffur]

@@MegaVidFan1 This is the game where putting too many cats into a small space would turn into a thermocatlear explosion because of the heat they generated basically made them explode. Afaik it was a bug and got fixed but uh, yeah, the game has details in the details. Same thing with the cats getting drunk/dying from overdosing alcohol, walking around in the tavern getting their paws soaked in ale, then licking them clean and dying because they were never supposed to drink. I think if you search on youtube for like "dwarf fortress cat explosion" you could probably find something on it if you want to see it in its ASCII glory.

[@Doomchild_]

all those odd alloys that don't seem worth the trouble to make or seemingly don't have a purpose... don't forget some nobles can have a preference for them and start demanding stuff made of it. so you'd be well to check who gets to be a noble and what alloys you need to keep in stock or request from the caravan if you can't make it yourself. nothing like a baron sending the hammerer to break your blacksmith's legs because you couldn't make those bismuth bronze mugs they demanded.

[@bod3874]

These videos are a godsend to watch at work and return home to restart my game for the 80th time with new info to make my dwarves even better.

[@Ic0nGaming]

Ha, strike the earth and remember: Losing is fun! Happy to hear that this one helped you out a bit =)

[@TimothyHemp]

The tetrahedrite -> billon pipeline has furnished so many of my forts and purchased me so much trade caravan stuff. My personal favorite alloy (after steel, of course)

[@Ic0nGaming]

Alloys are a nice way of earning money indeed. I love my Fine Pewter Buildings - making tons of cash out of virtually crappy resources.

[@xLisranda]

Steel also has the same final value as gold, and if you have access to it, it's probably much more abundant.

[@Srab23]

Maybe trifle pewter is included because of some historic significance in the real world, and only serves to enrich the game!

[@mhchx3]

Black bronze makes cool walls and floors, that's why I like it

[@ultimatekao]

I’ve seen people make squad uniforms out of black bronze. Looks slick

[@davidburton9690]

I love embarking with extra bismuthinite stones. I just like the bismuth bronze alloy for weapons and armor. Eventually I'll go heavy into steel, but BBronze just seems more romantic lol

[@Swordphobic]

You kind of forgot a historical source of iron in dwarf fortress, goblinite.

[@Ic0nGaming]

Yes, yes indeed. I also didn't touch the metal which lead to the HFS either.

[@gabrote42]

@@Ic0nGaming Sweet, because we also needed specifications on cutting weapons last video

[@arthurbarros5189]

I rarely get iron from it. Tons of copper and silver, but rarely iron.

[@Swordphobic]

@@arthurbarros5189 It used to be the only source of iron if you didn't get any on your map.

[@HansLemurson]

The great riddle of Alloys: You can make weapons of Copper, and weapons of Silver, but not _Sterling Silver_ or _Billon_

[@egoalter1276]

I really fucking hate that imbalanced idiocy strongly affecting the core gameplay loop has been left in the game for over a decade, when it could be fixed with 5 minutes worth of RAW edits.

[@Taygetea]

Some feedback, both on this and the previous video: if you want to provide more value than a spreadsheet, you want the structure of your script to be based on use cases, not alphabetical. so group the bronzes together, group the precious metals together, and when you're discussing the categories like that, talk about the differences between the things in that category, ie instead of just going down the list, talk about rose gold and electrum at the same time, and mention their differences then too. you want people to be able to decide what they want to make in practice, rather than just dumping information at them. EDIT: also something else i noticed, these are all basically the same as in real life. this is all from real metallurgy. it would probably be a bit more fun, at least to me personally, to have some of that as the backdrop. for instance in your first video... why don't you make weapons out of gold? well gold is soft.

[@Ic0nGaming]

Well it's kinda hard on this topic. I did group together what I could, I kinda missed the connection between Rose Gold and Electrum. And I really didn't find any good uses for many of those alloys. I did really wrench my brain, but most of them seemed to be mostly decorational. It's not like I didn't think about that either. Thanks for the feedback though, that's not gonna be the last information dense video here ^^

[@Taygetea]

this method also allows you to spend very little time on the mostly-irrelevant metals and alloys. just say what theyre made with, say why they dont matter, and move on, perhaps.

[@Ic0nGaming]

@@Taygetea I'll keep those in mind once a re-work of this video is necessary. Cause I bet it will be - let alone due to the fact that the economy system is currently disabled.

[@caferockgarito3310]

Very interesting insightful feedback

[@Taygetea]

@@Ic0nGaming sounds great! im not saying a rework is necessary right now, just some ideas i had.

[@michaeldoucet-morokael]

If you run low on ideas for tutorials, I'd love to see a part 3. What to do with the individual ores. For example, what's the best use of native silver? Should I smelt all my Cassiterite into bars, and then go from there? I would love an ore tutorial, as I feel that I can't smelt anything as I'm probably screwing up what I'm actually supposed to do with it.

[@Ic0nGaming]

Currently working on a Tutorial about all the different types of stone. Or trying to select a few interesting things that makes a few of them stand out. Cause most are very generic. But not all. And there are some serious differences. Appreciate your input there, I can definitely see the use in a more "practical oriented" part 3, showing some handling ideas and first hand strategies about ore use and optimizations. I'm always all ears about these matters =)

[@michaeldoucet-morokael]

@@Ic0nGaming Looking forward to the stone tutorial!

[@voidseeker4394]

If you plan to glaze ceramics, it only can be glazed with either ash or cassiterite. Latter one is more valuable. Tin bars can't be used for that.

[@evankimori]

Great stuff here! Only mild complaint is your volume as I was struggling to hear you at points with a slight echo in the background. If you can turn up your editing volume a bit, peachy! Great stuff here though. Very point oriented, no excess fluff, calm voice. :)

[@Ic0nGaming]

Thanks for the feedback! The volume issues occur when I think it's necessary to talk away from the microphone, bad habit - thanks for the pointer, definitely can work on that ^^

[@adavadnetvadaszYouTu]

Also please check what "gain" is in audio and microphone related topics. I'm sure it's explained well somewhere.

[@Ic0nGaming]

@@adavadnetvadaszYouTu I am working with gain in my settings. Simply needs better hardware here.

[@adavadnetvadaszYouTu]

Alternatively you could use a headset, you can lay back as much as you want with that :p

[@marcbennett9232]

nice video! question. once you get a magma smelter, is there any value to using ore in alloys? since you dont need the fuel anymore. as for black bronze, youve set me a goal. black bronze workshops everywhere!

[@Ic0nGaming]

Using Ore for alloys always saves you time - it's 1 process yielding 4x the material. It's always worth it therefore. Besides, if the alloy has any silver part in it, you can brutally increase the efficiency by mixing tetrahedrite or galena into the recipe. Ore recipes are really good. The real downside on them is that ore is so much more bulky, compared to bars. You can store so many more bars on one tile compared to 1 boulder. At least that's been my impression of it so far

[@owenvenes]

In the video he forgot the main great thing about black bronze: it's the most badass looking building material ever.

[@Ravenhouse23]

Sometimes I like to make alloys that give no value increase for when I want intermediately valued material. For example, I can make 4 sterling silver statues for a temple and have it look neat and uniform, or I can make 1 copper and 3 silver statues and have things look very out of place. Although as you said, it really does come down to looks.

[@ParGellen]

Oh here's pig iron! Thanks! :)

[@clubdeejay]

Nice work, and thanks for this video. Just what I was looking for. :)

[@caferockgarito3310]

Yes! I've been refreshing yt waiting for this video to appear

[@JackdotC]

Speaking about coins currently being useless, you can actually turn them into shot gun pellets. Make a bunch of coins from a dense metal, load them into a minecart that will eject them at high speed towards you enemies and watch them turn into red mist

[@Ic0nGaming]

Hehe, puts a different meaning into hard currency :D

[@MrRasslor]

Ive noticed u make 1 tile stairs in your playthroughs. Dwarfs wont collide in hallways ? I hate 4 or more wide stairs

[@Teyronulous]

Multiple surgeons can preform surgery each on different patients all on the same table at the same time. Im not sure unit collision is present in most cases.

[@vonsch9793]

@@Teyronulous Watch dwarves closely as they move if you think there is no collision. :p I love watching them move through the area of my artificial "waterfall" (more of a waterspout falling from a hole in the ceiling onto a statue that scatters it in mist) and slipping and sliding all over the 5-wide area around it. Also see the behavior in my trapped entryway with alternate paths... rather than occupy the same spot at the same time, one will take the longer path.

[@Teyronulous]

@@vonsch9793 Fascinating, I stand corrected. I've always noticed dwarves stacked on top of each other when I have things paused so I figured it works the way temples or taverns do

[@danielmantell8751]

Super useful info.

[@haileene703]

First, new player here. So what will follow is pure supposition and not tested in any ways. I have been a jewler IRL, so yeah I have IRL knowledge of alloys and why / how they are made. I wonder if there is that "hidden" mechanic with sterling silver. You mentionned that silver is too soft and wears out fast. Well, the sole purpose of sterling silver is indeed IRL to make it less malleable. So maybe weapons made out of sterling silver instead of pure silver would also wear out a bit slower. (small edit : ofc that is a "slight" durability upgrade IRL, so if present in game may as well be a similar slight upgrade, maybe not even worth the hassle) That's just a guess, but seems that so many details have been included, I wonder why they would decide to leave out specific uses like that totally on arbitrary decisions like "oh we put this in game, but not that" (aka copper vs bronze durability). Besides that, great stuff, great work, will definitely check out other of your DF content.

[@ArawnNox]

I was curious about your supposition so I checked the wiki. The density of sterling silver is the same as regular silver, and with how DF calculates weight, a hammer made out of either material would be identical. Though, looking a bit closer, sterling silver can only be used in metal crafting (if I'm understanding the wiki correctly) and not for use in weapon crafting.

[@voidseeker4394]

Same with rose gold, it's purpose was to make gold harder and not as prone to scratching and bending. But sadly, game has weird decisions that you just physically can't make any object of any material, game doesn't allow you to make silver sword, allows you to make silver mace, but doesn't allow to make rose gold or sterling silver one. Only while in strange mood dwarves can ignore those limitations and use whatever material they want to everything, but it's totally random and almost impossible to control.

[@ivanl.6797]

14:48 You probably know, but, you asked because you didn't mention. Some dwarves have preferences over certain materials.

[@wakkosick6525]

I thought sterling silver was good for floors in your hospital or am I thinking of rimworld?

[@evankimori]

Rimworld for sure. Silver floors provide a cleanliness bonus to hospitals and lower infection.

[@adoltohifler153]

Steel is by far the best metal for weapons and armor. The drawback is given by the fuel consumption. Only exception lies in silver Warhammers. Silver Warhammers out DPS steel Warhammers given it's higher density

[@okonkwojones]

That’s what I’d always believed as well, but I heard someone who has waaay more experience with the game than I, say that steel blunt weapons are *still* better than silver-even though silver is heavier, the damage difference is negligible, but the swing speed is significantly slower *because* silver is so heavy. I then checked the wiki and it confirmed that. But if you don’t have steel, silver is good in a pinch.

[@TheHuffur]

Just watched the video and already cant remember much aside from bronze being ok for weapons and such, iron being somewhat better and steel basically being best at everything. All the others just turned into soup in my brain. I think it would have been easier if they were sorted into 3 categories: 1. weapon/armor etc alloys 2. trade/value alloys 3. why are these even here alloys Because as it is now, even the named sections on the video dont really help. I can see where what alloy is being talked about but I have no clue what that alloy did unless I go and watch it again, so for example if I wanted to hear about the more valuable alloy to make trade goods out of that is not useful for weapons.... I have no clue which one to skip to and have to watch it all again anyway.

[@Ic0nGaming]

Thanks for the feedback! Since I expect some changes in the future in the whole metal department I expect to have to rework this anyways at some point. Will make sure to work on these points!

[@TheHuffur]

@@Ic0nGaming Your work is appreciated, lots of people new to the game looking for guides on all kinds of things so even these 'boring' videos on metals and alloys are great to have. Though hopefully some time in the future it wont be similar to a forbidden book.. like necronomicon, sapping everyones sanity viewing it ;)

[@Ic0nGaming]

@@TheHuffur Haha, I love to try my best to make boring stuff less boring if possible but this part was hard for myself to process.

[@ColddFire]

How are you finding/digging out such great little rooms with metal ore walls? Are you on the metals everywhere selection?

[@Ic0nGaming]

Some layers just have a lot of Magnetite/Limonite in them, the world this has been recorded on is default settings.

[@ColddFire]

@Ic0n Gaming Nice! Great video, great help. Been trying to find more rooms like that to make. Will continue after I get through all these aqueducts and stop giant murders, owls and sparrows.

[@dungeondaddyxoxo]

Can you go over the other worldly metals

[@Ic0nGaming]

Yes, definitely. I haven't had enough first hand experience with adamantium yet, but there's definitely a tutorial for that and heavenly metal coming.

[@Tephoon]

Could you also do a video about the many skills of dwarves and what they effect?

[@wakkosick6525]

That would be great.

[@deadstones1]

yes, this. Steam update made things confusing, so it'd be nice to have a clear and detailed explanation of the new jobs. Not like all 80 of them, just the important ones.

[@wakkosick6525]

@@deadstones1 Basicly I woudl start off with talking about each job and what its for in groups of releated skills. Then the next video grouping these jobs togegther into labor profiles and talk about how you setup the work details in your forts. Man it surprises me how many different games I have watched your guides on.

[@kacperspisz4239]

thanks for tutorial helplping a lot

[@Terashi]

Do you need anvils for anything other than metalsmith stations?

[@terrydavis5924]

you need an anvil to make an anvil. If you never had a first anvil, you will be unable to make one until you get a starter kit from a friendly merchant, probably after asking for it This leads to the question of where the First Anvil came from.

[@Terashi]

@@terrydavis5924 Okay, but outside of making anvils and other forms of metalsmithing, what is it useful for? Because I'm thinking you don't really need a lot of them. Maybe a few for having multiple metalsmithing stations, but that's the only thing I can think of.

[@sampy901]

Billon is worth as much as silver but weighs as much as copper, most of my bins and barrels are made of it

[@Kaiser282]

It is weird that even dwarf fortress fell for the 'iron is better than bronze' myth. Bronze should be better than iron but harder to acquire, at least until you can turn the iron into steel.

[@Ic0nGaming]

Not that I understand that much about real life metals but one question does come up for me: Why was the Bronze Age followed by the Iron Age if Bronze is the superior material? I do know that Iron is actually quite shitty as long as it's not refined, I'm merely wondering how it came to this historical course of events. Abundance of Iron?

[@Kaiser282]

@Ic0n Gaming the lack of bronze, actually. With international trade broken, shipping in enough tin was impossible to meet demand. So then they realized had all this iron sitting around and figured out how to refine it enough to make good enough weapons and tools faster. That's the super cut down version. In a fantasy world where tin is WAY more available than in our world, bronze would technically be the better metal if you don't have supply issues.

[@Ic0nGaming]

@@Kaiser282 I figured that some sort of economic reasoning was happening. And I'm not too surprised about the superiority of Bronze. Alloys are quite often way more useful than natural occuring metals. No big surprise, cause us humans were tinkering around to get rid of natural occuring flaws of the metals when creating alloys. Why create an Alloy when a natural material was superior and abundant? I AM a bit disappointed about Dwarf Fortress falling for this mistake though. ^^

[@Kaiser282]

@Ic0n Gaming I'm more surprised than disappointed. Triple A studios, I can see missing it. Even indie like Valheim or Rimworld mods gets it wrong. But I figured DF would have gotten it right. Might see if I can message or post somewhere about it and see if they can change it.

[@Kaiser282]

Just for anyone seeing this later, I looked up some reasoning. It seems that iron can absorb some carbon while being forged certain ways and gets a steel like outer shell, which makes it as strong as bronze, give or take. (Like in the game) So basically dwarves forge good and accidentally make really good iron items just like we did in real life. Think old Katana construction or wootz steel in ways.

[@fremenGaming]

@Ic0n and what about Adamantium ? :D

[@Ic0nGaming]

Will get it's own video, cause it's so darned spoiler heavy ^^

[@fremenGaming]

@@Ic0nGaming You can always just speak about the ore itself and not where to find it or other spoilery stuff :D

[@Ic0nGaming]

@@fremenGaming Thing about Adamantium is that it's really different. It's like Metal and Fabric at the same time and really deserves more than just a quick mention in this video. And you cannot gather it without spoilers so ... Yeah, own video, sorry for the inconvenience ^^

[@Grubbyfoot]

Would black bronze be effective against monsters vulnerable to silver, but with better durability than pure silver? New player here so not sure if that's even a thing...

[@okonkwojones]

silver weapons have no special effect on enemy types, like vampires or the undead. The only reason it’s good against say the risen dead, is because it’s a heavy material so it’s an ok choice for blunt weapons, which are best against zombie types, because if an entity falls over in combat, any attack on a downed foe is 100% accurate (and I think) is always a headshot, (assuming the enemy has a head to shoot) and a crushing blow to the head destroys the brain, which kills anything in the game dead. As in Dead, dead. The problem with using a cutting/piercing weapon against reanimated monsters, is that they frequently sever limbs, and that guaranteed hit to the head won’t crush the brain, but usually sever the head, and those limbs can then *also* reanimate , and those parts are just as deadly (heard tons of horror stories about fortresses falling to zombified hair, which was basically unkillable as it has no body parts to damage.

[@Catcrumbs]

Just one thing: the 'i' in 'variant' is pronounced as an 'ee' sound.

[@Ic0nGaming]

Thanks! That one slipped past me

[@SleepyGaryBASS]

👍👍

[@AvanToor]

Total noob here (DF or metallurgy). But here's my thoughts about what they're doing with minting: all those weird alloys might be our future way of preventing or tracking down forgery.

[@do0myk]

All completely useless except steel and bronze yet probably took a year to add given how slow df development is

[@Ic0nGaming]

From a military point of view, yes. From a fortress builders point of view that's not true at all. Metals are worth a lot of money, therefore make Dwarfs darned happy if they are around it. Make Alloy Furniture for example and everybody will love their bedrooms a ton more. Besides that, there is the color aspect - some metals provide very unique colors. And of course the roleplaying aspect.

[@Macknull]

Moderately informational, but abysmally boring with non existing editing. 🙁

[@SaltyMaud]

Knowing the audience that's perfect. If we can suffer wikiwalking, we can survive 20 minutes of no-nonsense information in video form as well.