All the cars lost to the 2009 Scrappage Scheme - Someone scrapped these rarities?!

I only sat down to go through the paperwork on the Focus. Instead I crunched 26,000 lines of official government data to produce the video above. It really is properly shocking. In the video I break down how many cars were lost, and dive into some of the rarities and exotica that fell victim to the scandalous scrappage scheme of 2009. Be warned, it'll hit you right in the feels. #GeoffBuysCars #BuyingCars #SellingCars #CarReview

[@stryder237]

I've seen lots of coverage of the scrappage scheme both in the UK and the US. The biggest tragedy was not the loss of future collector cars, but the loss of cheap, reliable transport for those that needed a car and had no other option. Thousands of cheap used cars vanished from the roads driving up used car prices. Cars from the late 90s like many of the ones scrapped last a long time, many would still be on the road today with normal owners. The scheme also destroyed the scrap metal industry overnight. In countries with no scrappage scheme, you can still see 80s and 90s cars on the roads today, driven by normal people for low cost.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Brilliant comment and exactly my point. A lot of the reporting on the cars lost focused on the 1 or 2 luxury or desirable cars, but the sheer number of humdrum cars is far more of a story.

[@peterthwaites5891]

Yes and due to the fact that once traded into the scrappage scheme these cars "had to be scrapped" a huge amount of spare parts which could have helped to keep other cars running cheaply for years to come were destroyed...

[@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391]

E 10 petrol is continuing the trend.

[@rkan2]

80s cars aren't cheap anymore. The cheapest are usually ones between 15-25 years old since they have the most parts availability and tools to fix them. After about 20 years the parts availability starts worsening and it will become increasingly difficult to find them..

[@oscarosullivan4513]

@@GeoffBuysCars Scrappage schemes are commercial ploys. The loss of the old classic cars from Morris,Sunbeam etc is sad. Cars have gone from something that will be on the road at least 15 years to something you get a new one every year. I know people who owned Volvo 850’s superb car on all accounts.

[@The-Sea-Dragon-1977]

Given the environmental impact of building & shipping a car vs keeping an old one going the scrappage scheme deserves to be remembered as an act of environmental and cultural vandalism. Unbelievable Geoff.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Cultural Vandalism and Automotive Genocide

[@ToxCcc]

You gotta remember though some of these cars were the worst examples, high mileage or repaired write offs or rusted out. If they were clean examples with low mileage on the used market it would be worth something. The owner would have tried getting more than £2000 if they could get more rather than settle for £2000.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

@@ToxCcc no I disagree, many of them were old people taking the easy route. There’s lots of anecdotal evidence from car dealers and sales people saying they couldn’t believe the type of cars that were coming in!

[@jonntischnabel]

Unbelievable Geoff! Selfish acts by true Philistines have made the classic cars so hard to find and purchase. 😭

[@willtricks9432]

And the emissions scam, which seemed to coincide with scrappage.

[@bikingnutcase0]

Unbelievable Geoff! The irony to me was it didn’t even get the absolute sh*tboxes off the road, because nobody (like me) who owned a complete sh*tter that belonged in the scrapyard could afford a new car wether there was a £2000 discount or not. The cars being crushed were all much nicer than mine, and it still upsets me to this day.

[@BillCarrIpswich]

They had to have MOTs didn't they?

[@JimmyTheFish3]

It got thousands of shitboxes off the road, you saw how many fords were scrapped

[@johnpulawski35]

Who decided to scrap these nice cars for 2k?

[@dcarbs2979]

@@BillCarrIpswich Yep.

[@BillCarrIpswich]

@@dcarbs2979 I wonder how many of those MOTs were issued by the service centre attached to the car dealer though. Many of the cars probably weren't really roadworthy, certainly the more valuable ones anyway.

[@MogoPrime]

"Scrappage", "Cash For Clunkers", whatever it was called wherever you were, it was genuinely one of the saddest things to happen to the automotive world. It hurt not just enthusiasts and collectors, but the average citizen tight on cash, who was robbed of an affordable used car they might have bought at some point. Failure to improve anything at all. It truly is unbelievable, Geoff.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

I though this in a section of the video that was not included in the USA data, what do you do if you want a cheap van in 2009, when something like 150,000 cheap vans have been scrapped?

[@johnthomson3225]

I remember my mechanic saying he couldn't believe some of the cars that were scrapped. Unbelievable Geoff

[@Gerry-S250]

Interesting video - I remember back in 2009 my Grandfather had received a letter, from the government, suggesting that he apply for the scrappage scheme, as his car was eligible by age; it was a 1998 Ford Escort 16v Finesse Mk6, which was low mileage at the time. The letter gave an example of a car he could get - a Kia Picanto. Thankfully he laughed about that, as he was very fond of the Escort Mk6. Sadly he passed away a few years ago, but I've got the Escort now - as of today, there is only 48k on the odometer! Never plan to get rid of it...

[@Gerry-S250]

@@Blackmamba12345 No, he did get a letter, it was just an EXAMPLE of what he could get, they weren't telling him he had to buy that specfic car; after all, it was a government scheme in place to boost the economy... 🙄

[@Gerry-S250]

@@Blackmamba12345 Okay, I don't know what you're trying to debunk; I'm not making a bold claim and I'm well aware of what the scheme was - there isn't much to it. If you look my original comment, I simply have put it as I could; my Grandfather received a letter, encouraging him to apply for the scheme (which would have been in the government's favour) and in the letter, there was an example of what a small average car would cost, probably with example of what money he would receive for his Escort. I don't know what there is to fuss about or to debate over even, it's not some wild claim; it was just some incentive letter from the government for the scappage scheme, that's all there is to it...🙂

[@beamboy07]

I thought it was going to be a sad ending im glad you got it pal

[@jonnyc429]

@@Blackmamba12345 why are you trying to start an argument? His post made it crystal clear that it was an example of a car his grandfather could buy, not the only car. Seemed obvious. His grandad also surely knew it wasn't the only car on offer, the point was he wanted to keep his escort regardless. Reading comprehension buddy

[@dcarbs2979]

Although that car is a bit modern for my liking, I understand keeping it as a memorial. I had a friend of probably similar age to grandad who like his modern/new cars all his life from when he started driving in the 60's. When he met me, he was surprised I suggested getting a 15-20 year old Rolls Royce for the same price as his usual new car. He bought the Royce but ultimately px'ed for a pre-registered Peugeot 308. I dispaired, but he like the improved economy.

[@Zero_Ninety]

Unbelievable Geoff. I was close to tears at points in this video. I'm not a big JDM guy but the person who scrapped a Skyline GT-R should be sectioned because they're clearly a danger to themselves and everyone around them. What were they thinking?!?

[@paulallen3839]

Holy shit... not made it to that section yet...

[@markuscb220]

I was thinking the same or the cappuccinos who imports a car to just scrap it then? But back then it was a different way of thinking. I remember my family trading in a corrado vr6 for a new mitsubishi lancer

[@johnpulawski35]

@@markuscb220 was the Corrado worth more than the lancer?

[@ichbinb0b83]

A GT-R is like any other car, the only thing is that it’s getting hype for nothing. (Told by an Evo owner)

[@Zero_Ninety]

@@markuscb220 a Corrado VR6? For a Lancer?! Pure madness. I'd love 'Rado Vr6.

[@bmused55]

When the scheme was live, I owned a Peugeot 406 Coupé. Still a heart-achingly beautiful car today. So, in the middle of the scrappage scheme, I went to a local scrapyard to find a few bits for my 406 Coupé (some twonk had reversed into the front right wing) and there was a mint condition v6 example of my car sitting there, isolated from the rest. it was a 1999 example, same age as mine, but with just 12K miles on the clock. Not a scratch, ding or blemish on it. The leather seats were like brand new and not even all that shiny. The back seats were still in the matt finish! I asked the scrapper what he wanted for it. He said he can't sell it, it was traded in to a local dealer under the scrappage scheme and MUST be scrapped. They couldn't even part it out, all of it had to be converted to piles of scrap. It was heart breaking :(

[@TheRonaldbaxter]

Madness 😢

[@mazda9624]

Unbelievable Geoff! I think one of the saddest and most ironic things about this is that I'm certain plenty of those cars would still be on the road today, but they were instead traded in for generic 2009 and 2010 model year cars that have since been scrapped due to reliability issues.

[@imabebebebe2496]

Trade in that clean, low mileage deville/custom cruiser and get 4500 towards a Chitrolet Aveo! - Oboma Sighn me up! -most American boomers.

[@jamesdecross1035]

These would have been traded in for the deposit a middle-class family child's first car. Encouraging debt (or "credit", as it was called at the time).

[@hotwheelshuntinguk]

Loads of them would be worth a Ton too. Super desirable cars amongst the car community, yet destroyed. For what?

[@theoriginalwallace]

Truly heartbreaking, Geoff. People were stupid enough to fall for those Government scams & most, if not all of the tin boxes they bought, are already scrapped. The amount of historic cars that were scrapped is infuriating & this is one of the many reasons why the country is in such a mess... far more pollution due to over manufacturing & not cherishing the car that you have. Cheers. Leigh.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

It's really hard to get the proper data out of anywhere but I cannot be convinced that scrapping an old volvo estate to swap to an electric car that weighs two tons makes environmental sense.

[@retrorevolution6534]

Unbelievable, disgusting tbh!! Scrapping perfectly good older/classic and rare cars thinking that they are somehow getting a good deal for some bland, modern, overpriced, overcomplicated crossover/suv no doubt 🤔 People are idiots!!

[@HighSockDavid]

People don’t want to learn to to take care of stuff and put actual work into something rather than just wasting money on something new

[@memeco50]

@@HighSockDavid the thing is when they have that money to spend. Some of us by stupidity or whatever buy and keep old cars running.

[@UnipornFrumm]

Why didnt you bought them for 2001 pounds if you think ypu know better?

[@Nbomber]

@@UnipornFrumm what a moronic response. Sure, i will just use my telepathic powers to detect when every single one of millions of people are going to scrap their cars, then i will buy them all, to sell them at a loss. Sure

[@dcarbs2979]

@@UnipornFrumm Does he have £800m to save them all?

[@khajiit8221]

When you hear the words "Government" and "Scheme" do not get involved. Run a million miles in the other direction. Regardless of anyone's political leanings, pretty much everything the government is involved in they make a mess of it. And they never learn from their mistakes - even worse, they want to do it again! I have heard cars at only 8 years old now qualify for the newer scrappage scheme! Unbelievable Geoff!

[@GeoffBuysCars]

8 years old?! that is insanity.

[@dcarbs2979]

@@GeoffBuysCars Personally, I've never owned a car younger than twice that age!

[@stephencollins9062]

They're not incompetent They hate us every single one of us They don't want us to be self reliant happy or inventive

[@TheDaztheraz]

Feels all deliberate

[@GooberProject]

‘Mistakes’

[@davidhills3100]

A lot of people who ought to have known better were pushing the scrappage scheme at the time. I remember how much the editor of Autocar crowed about getting the scheme extended, and how vital and excellent a scheme it supposedly was. And that, kids, is why my 45-year-long Autocar magazine archive abruptly stops in 2009. Unbelievable, Geoff.

[@rocketman57]

I loved Autocar but it is silent on future dystopian plans and the anti-car 'climate crisis' hoax. We need activism not silence!

[@rocketman57]

There are some appalling f**kwit owners out there! This was obviously an early part of the plan to destroy motoring!

[@davidhills3100]

@@rocketman57 Oh, mate. I love cars as much as the next person, and have been privileged to own some pretty amazing metal over the years, but even I recognise we need to put the age of the internal combustion engine behind us, and fast.

[@Stratoszero]

@@rocketman57in the posters of the industry and government, along with Auto Express. I stopped buying them all early 2000s.

[@Ben31337l]

@@davidhills3100 And what? It's not like the cars can't be outfitted with batteries, motors and such. A lot of classic cars were my favourite in terms of styling.

[@MontgomeryPisswhistle]

I shed a tear when I think about all of the Peugeot 106s that were culled. They were fantastic little cars for the money, if you wanted something cheap to run that also handled well.

[@MargaLia]

Unbelievable Geoff! Omg now it makes sense when year ago i had few people knock on my door regarding our Honda Accord! I do believe also big trouble is how common leasing is in uk. I see way too many people who drive new plates when there is no need people. Old cars drive perfectly fine and they much more fun to drive. So sad about the car market rn

[@GeoffBuysCars]

I always look around at all the brand new plate cars and think 'you are all earning too much money, or you're stupid, or both'

[@jonathanfrankel6787]

I’d just arrived back from living in Canada, and remember seeing a transporter with a beautiful Volvo 850R on it going for scrap. What a waste!!

[@bigbadtree]

I worked In a scrap yard at this time. Cars had to have an MOT to be excepted, because of this alot of cars came in with brand new parts fitted to pass the mot. Including tyres with the glue from labels still visible, new exhausts, new catalytic converters, headlights, joints, springs, etc. We had one of the BMW 850's though it was smokey so in fairness probably an uneconomical repair, 1 VW G60 golf and 3 Ford granada scorpio cosworth V6's to name a few. Or and a Ford Fiesta MK4 Zetec one owner concourse condition with 4000 miles on it, all be law had to be squashed.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Yeah you aren’t the only one saying similar things, do me a favour and find the people in the comments saying ‘they were all rusted out crap anyway’ and tell them...!!

[@jamesdecross1035]

And then they closed off the scrap-yards so you could't get the bits for another car!

[@shoominati23]

Now thats what I call bad economics. I mean you can understand a big fashion label like Chanel or Gucci shredding all the unsold product at the end of a year instead of giving it away or selling it cheaper because that dilutes their brand equity by upsetting the supply and demand balance, but this is just like sending a supermarket of food to landfill when there's a hunger problem in the next estate!

[@bigbadtree]

Not true! Yards were open the one I was at never closed, in fact they increased their opening hours. However due to the flow or flood of vehicles coming in (we went from 3-6 vehicles a week to 3-6 vehicles an hour! ) having the public around was a health and safety nightmare. So some decided it was safer to close to the public, but they weren't mandated to close!

[@paulharper4196]

@@shoominati23 thats a great analogy. The whole point was to get the "bangers" off the road, but all it did was create a vacuum in the middle of the market, where those that could afford a new car got one and scrapped their still decent 10 year old car, removing the potential for those less well off to upgrade their actual banger to one of these vehicles. A better thought out plan would have seen a sort of "hand me down" system where the middling car would still be traded in at the same rate, but then sold on to a lower income person with the incentive that they scrap their coming to the end of its life car.

[@tattoojim182]

Unbelievable Geoff. I hope the people who traded in some of those rare gems (even in 2009) feel stupid

[@fernsie81]

Unbelievable Geoff!

[@ianbeale2527]

No, these people would NEVER feel stupid. They would have some sanctimonious sense of superiority because they were "saving the planet by getting their highly polluting cars off the road and getting £2K towards a NEW one ". This, despite the fact that many could've sold their cars for more than £2k at the time had the scam , sorry, scheme not been in place, the manufacturers would be selling the new cars for less, as many loaded the price as soon as the "scrappage scheme" was announced.

[@youraveragejdmenthusiast430]

Skyline GT-R never depreciates, Meh cars do.

[@chucky2316]

@@youraveragejdmenthusiast430 they were shite. I have yet to see a insurance company pay out can you imagine a claim on a damaged Austin Healey lmao

[@tattoojim182]

@@Blackmamba12345 no one’s going to miss a 90s Primera, unless it was the GT model, and even then, they were nothing special

[@TheGreatBritishFarm]

Unbelieveable Geoff, I myself always wondered why were there no 90s cars on the road during the 2010s, but tons of 00s cars, I presumed it was just a result of better manufacturing techniques, but this explains it.

[@alanwhite5160]

Unbelievable Geoff. Saw a video not long ago. Some guys found a disused airfield full of old cars. Probably from the scrappage scheme. Golf's, Beetles, Jags, Escorts, all sorts in rows on concrete. Going rusty but still with security. What a waste!

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Yes it's on KZbin but it's a fairly old video I think, not sure if they're still there now.

[@JJ-wd1wk]

Just seen this video and your comment. If you Google earth Bedford Autodrome you can still see all the cars there.

[@RudolphOcker]

It's a car storage yard for new cars now. Hence they are all black, white or silver! Cazoo and others use it.

[@ChrisPeaDuck]

Unbelievable Geoff - what an absolutely travesty, I just don’t understand the mindset of the individuals who chopped in some of these rare cars back then even with the phenomenal discounts that may have been offered. Sadly a significant chunk of motoring history gone for ever.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Absolutely. Trading in old reliable technology for cars that wouldn’t last 7 years

[@chiefrocka8604]

@@GeoffBuysCars a lot of people used family cars to get big discounts So grandads belter sat there got weighed in or at least went bruntingthorpe to sit there 10 years

[@DjDolHaus86]

The mindset was fairly simple, these cars weren't worth £2k to anyone at the time. Chances are that a lot of these 'classics' were just rotboxes that weren't worth restoring

[@mpersad]

What a fascinating, and rather upsetting video. Thank you for all the work you did for this, it was unbelievable Geoff!

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Shocking isn't it...!

[@TOMLINBISH]

The 2008 & on financial crisis was great for me because I got my redundancy payout when the factory I worked at closed, but the car scrappage scheme was crazy & not thought through properly just like countless numbers of other government policies!

[@carlarthur4442]

Everything governments do is never thought through, that includes this green agenda B S , can you imagine our loss when all petrol & diesel ⛽️ cars are being banded in the near future. Makes no sense E Vs are not the answer to the problem , politicians are the problem and people with vested interests. Pity we don't get the chance to scrap Government policies that make no sense 😕 🙄 😒

[@nospoon4799]

I think they thought it through and it worked fine for them. Business as usual.

[@IrishWannabe]

It just breaks my heart to see so many classic and cool cars overall that were scrapped... Unbelievable, most of those cost a fortune these days

[@GeoffBuysCars]

exactly

[@2760ade]

But they only cost a fortune because so many were scrapped then, which makes them rare now!

[@darrenchapman4381]

Unbelievable Geoff!! It's sad what they have done but it's all done on purpose. The drive to reduces combustion cars off the road started way before we thought with schemes likes this. I reckon we should petition for an EV scrappage scheme already. 🤣👍🏻

[@GeoffBuysCars]

I'm going to do a video on when the anti car movement started and where it's going

[@jillfulton2369]

Unbelievable Geoff . Just toured Scotland in our 2005 166.000 mile Volvo V70 ,problem free . Blessed the previous owner had the insight to save her from the scrap yard .

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Great to hear!!

[@carlarthur4442]

I own a Volvo V50 1.6D it's done 153 , 000 miles and is still running sweet 😋 2010 plate .

[@jimififul]

Unbelievable Geoff. What made this worse for me was that I'd been made redundant after the credit crunch and lost my company car. The market for £500 cars got decimated by this and I really struggled to keep moving. Then I got a job at a Vauxhall dealer and some of the stuff we sent away was absolutely tragic.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

You’re not the only one in the comments testifying how good some of the cars were, it really is a travesty. Do us a favour and reply to some of the people on here saying ‘they were all end of life rust buckets’!!

[@dcarbs2979]

I heard some stories where the dealers felt sorry for scrapping them and px'ed them privately to save a few.

[@mattw8332]

Criminal. In early 2010 I was without a car for a while and also out of work with little free cash. Seeing published pictures of airfields of generic cars like Toyotas and Rovers waiting to be scrapped made me weep. Never mind the more interesting models. For a few hundred quid I could have given, say, a mid 1990s Corolla a good home.

[@Journey_to_who_knows]

You never know what you have, until you lose it right

[@Benjamin-ko1fg]

Norway had a similar scheme in 1996. Over 225 000 cars were scrapped that year compared to only around 60 000 cars in 1995. No year ever since 1996 has so many cars been scrapped in Norway. Usually you would get 1000 Norwegian kroner for turning in your car to a certified scrapyard, but instead you got 6000 kroner. Which was a lot for the time. Even today you only get 3000 NOK for scrapping a car. So a lot of nice 60s, 70s and 80s cars were lost in Norway because of the 1996 scrappage scheme here :-(

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Is the data anywhere...?

[@geoffersk3684]

Unbelievable Geoff! I remember this happening, had to have an MOT and drive to the trade-in under their own power. So many genuine classics and modern classics lost simply for quick easy cash, replaced by modern bland rubbish. Terrible waste :(

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Yes and I think many dealers played jazz with the rules just to make their sales quota.

[@benhobbs1899]

I was only thinking about where all the cars of my youth went. Forgot all about the scrappage scheme. Unbelievable Geoff

[@Ben31337l]

I never knew this scheme existed. One more reason to hate the government.

[@hmslc8289]

Great video mate, I can hear the passion in your voice. Watching this drove me into a frothing rage at all the great cars that are gone. Such a shame. Unbelievable Geoff.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Thank you! I just felt empty after recording the video, and just had to get it out there for people!

[@christopherhammant9435]

Unbelievable Geoff. Truly astonishing what some people threw away.

[@cyph3r76]

Unbelievable Geoff. The Toyota Hilux being scrapped… Madness as Top Gear showed it runs for ever.

[@Phil16Wales]

Unbelievable Geoff! I completely forgot this event and now I understand where the thousands or great old cars went

[@andysearle4457]

Unbelievable Geoff. As a Triumph fan It's so sad to see that list of taxed, insured and MOT'ed classics get crushed. Also, so many of those cars (Fiestas, Novas etc.) were the only sort of car that young people, critical workers (nurses, care workers etc.) would be able to afford. Criminal.....

[@mildlyinterestd1968]

Unbelievable Geoff. I reckon there's a fair bit of fiddling went on during that era. Pinched cars, absolute wrecks, all being waved through . My local scrappy in Chesterfield was driving a brand new yellow Hummer in that era 😁 Cars could be picked up for absolutely nothing in that era, some of those that we are now so enamoured with were worth no where near £2k back then

[@justso1823]

I was just going to comment aswell about how much fraud happened I can remember 1 scrap yard near me every week cars were loaded into Curtin siders. storage containers etc then picked up . All the license plates removed all with full log books on the pasanger seat .all the the wagon driver's had Bulgarian Romanian. polish license plates.

[@paulharper4196]

Yeah I heard stories about how loads of cars earmarked for scrap ended up in Eastern Europe. And good, they were, in the vast majority of cases, still perfectly roadworthy with plenty of life left in them.

[@rollingmaverick8501]

Unbelievable Geoff. I always wondered why you never see these types of cars anymore. I didn't realise what a massive effect the scheme had on them. Enjoyed the video :)

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@bertierussell5901]

Thank you Geoff, I thought at the time how much of a disaster this was being driven by the government, then the, naive, bought it. I planned to mention the average price rising due to others thinking... ooh sale... which dealers took advantage of but you mentioned it quite rightly - £3,500 increase average if I remember correctly. I had a collection of cars from the 1980's and everyone told me I could make a quick buck at the time, but like you, I believe they should be preserved, not sent to the pit of doom for the sake of a disgusting new Hyundai i20!! Polluting more from construction! Total waste - I love your exposure!

[@GeoffBuysCars]

£3,500 average increase seems about right considering from what I remember in the advertising it was generally £3k-4k discount with the government and dealer contribution

[@petersmith5723]

Only found your channel today . Brilliant video , but one of the most depressing when you consider what we have lost . I bought a new mk2 golf gti in 1988 , in the early 2000s I took it off the road . I still have the car , and had it not been for covid it would have been back on the road . Instead it is waiting at a restorers , cant wait for the day I get it back on the road .

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Ah hope you get to drive it soon! Yes a great many of those golfs were lost :-(

[@JALC-x]

I miss seeing old cars on the road. I'm only 20 but I remember seeing all these cars from the 80s / early 90s and I always loved to see them. nowadays it'll turn my head if I see something with a pre 2001 plate. not even because I care about the car it's on, simply because it's rare to see anything older than 20 years it seems

[@Ben31337l]

Agreed. Always wanted an old car.

[@shros]

Unbelievable Geoff, quite glad this came up in my recommended I remember how hard it was to find a cheap older car when I got my license in 2012 as a result of the scheme.

[@Ben31337l]

Me too. I, for one, am a fan of older cars.

[@elliott811]

Morbidly fascinating video, I appreciate the amount of research and dedication that has gone into this. Brought back memories on Top Gear when they encouraged everyone to keep their old cars running instead of buying new. Sad state of affairs to see.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Great summary, 'morbidly fascinating!'

[@lorenzodelacruz1887]

That is sad. The audio is so good I looked outside to see the rain! No rain in weeks here. Great cars gone, truly unbelievable. Thanks for the show. By the way I came for the cars but stayed for the content of your commentary. Good music at the end.

[@andrewe7314]

Unbelievable Geoff! Heartbreaking that so many rare cars were lost needlessly. I had a 106 Rallye in the 90’s and they were rare cars when they were new, so to hear that four more perished in this scam is sickening.

[@christophe5669]

Some of these models are virtually untraceable now, and have become very expensive It's sad.. Merci pour cette vidéo!

[@mikeymike3240]

The sad thing is that most of those cars are still sitting on old runways and huge fields. There's some videos on KZbin showing them. So freaking sad, cause I'm a car lover just like you Geoff. Great video man

[@martycrush6412]

Sell them🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@timmorodgers4271]

I think those runways have been cleared within the last few years. They were sold on through salvage brokers and ended up in breakers yards.

[@starx2212]

the runway seems to be a private collection as the cars are sorted into make and model

[@salvatoremaglione6398]

Are there any links to these vids?

[@johnp9235]

Unbelievable and absolutely criminal. Can you imagine picking up some of those cars for 2k now? I remember in Malvern where I live, when the scrappage scheme started. All of the little puddle jumper cars that were around on the side of the road for sale just disappeared.

[@adamjow8405]

Unbelievable Geoff. It's shocking seeing so many good cars being wasted and getting destroyed when do many would've had many years of life left in them.

[@pistonbroke]

Unbelievable Geoff. And now look at the 2009 cars that were bought through the scrappage scheme, I bet not even half of them lasted as long as the cars that were traded in. I couldn't believe some of the cars that were coming in, absolutely criminal.

[@babelay1]

Great work - I remember the top 3 winners of most new cars bought under the scheme were the likes of Kia, Hyundai and Proton (or something similar) won’t be many of them on the road now!

[@avec4amadman1]

(Unbelievable Geoff) I’m a Brit and well aware of the scrappage scheme and always thought it was awful I’ve watched several videos over the years including the ones of cars in storage before they were crushed, but I must say the way you have recorded and delivered this video just really brings it all home good job 😅

[@steventhomson7531]

I remember 2009 well. Literally anything with an MOT was priced at £2k in the used car market. Stuff that would have been at most £300 previously. It was a total scam though. In 2008 a base Corsa was £8k, in 2009...£10k. So in reality all the cars given up in the scheme were given away FOR FREE! Running, driving, MOT'd cars given away for free in exchange for a cheap run around all of which are probably in scrap yards themselves now.

[@dcarbs2979]

And the replacement car depreciating by the discount amount almost instantly. Certainly gone by the first MOT.

[@Mikeyd251]

Unbelievable Geoff. This was like watching a horror movie. I was literally peering through my fingers. So painful!!!

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Ha ha, did it put you off your popcorn?

[@DanielHKhalid]

UNBELIEVABLE, Geoff!! All those beautiful cars, now gone. What a shame. Great compilation and presentation though, well done bud!

[@peterlangton3566]

Unbelievable Geoff, wow that’s lots of cars I remember seeing on the road that have now gone

[@mrkiplingreallywasanexceed8311]

Unbelievable Geoff! Yes, I got to the end and I have to say I am in two minds. I was working at Audi at the time and I must admit there was more than one occasion on which I thought either "gosh that seems too good to be crushed" or "if we took that in normal part exchange you'd quite possibly get a better deal" or "that's a pity - that's gonna be a classic/worth something one day" But you know what? Yes, in a vast list you can pick up on some really heartbreaking examples, let's see if I can remember a few.. hmmph, that didn't take long - doing it alphabetically like ur video, we immediately alight on the Alfas (the elegant 166s seem a shame) and several BMWs - I won't list them all but clearly the M3/M5 losses seem tragic but also the sexy 635CSi... as a schoolboy in the 80s, that was pretty much the ultimate. The Ford XRs and RSs hurt, the sporty Peugeots, even the 505 although was never very keen personally - and I drove a friend's dad's GTI Estate for a day or two and didn't love it. Rover SDI Vitesse is unfortunate, few of the Vauxhalls maybe but of the 40odd thousand you said got crushed, I personally won't miss 39.5odd thousand of them. Those AWFUL Suzukis I have to say were lucky to get the iron jaws of the crusher for a quick and almost painless demise - personally I'd have spent a day or two with the garotte and branding irons - plus maybe torn bits off them gratuitously - wing mirrors, ariels and wipers, you know. P'raps kicked in the glass and slashed the tyres just to make it really humiliating. .. a lot of the Japanese stuff you mentioned, frankly, while respectful of their engineering, particularly the Hondas, left me almost wholly unmoved. Outliers like Aixams, Allegro, Wolseleys, Heralds, Marinas (were there any of those on there? ) a lot of the Rover 800 stuff, Metros, Maxis, Maestros and Montegos - I KNOW it's not necessarily the point that I personally would do worse things still to the likes of them - along with the Zastavas, Samaras, beige 1100cc Fiestas, white Granadas and Senators, godawful Visas, hateful 440s, cheap, rattly and tinny Clios, dreary Jettas, and an utterly forgettable array of the sort of old dross my dad had as his first car - quite glad to see most of the Imps and Anglias and Minxs going into the great car liquidiser - yes, OTHER people WILL like them. But therein lies the point. Of COURSE it's easy to go misty eyed at the T5R, the Mk II Golf GTis, Escort RSs, plus a whole array of "second division" stuff like Nova SRi s, Subaru Outliers or Outlandishes, Mercedes E Classes. Can't remember if there were any 190s on your list - if so I'd rank them first division along with the GTIs - and yes 560SECs going in the trash seems a waste but all those bloody massive five and six litre 7 series and S class? Chuck 'em! The point is you either accept the climate is in danger or you don't and if you do - which I think does seem like the right thing - then you have to look at what you can do about it and frankly, fleets of bloody old Carltons, Cortinas, Cavaliers, Sierras, Mondeos, along with a whole pile of the Kias, Hyundais, Daihatsus, Nissan and 1600 "L" Orions in doom blue, with stained grey cloth seats, wind up windows and smelling of fags and wet dog and teenagers are just, well, disposable - I take your point about the deleterious effect on the CO2 reduction that would otherwise seem obvious when switching from a 30mpg car to one which does over 50, resulting from the manufacture of that replacement car. In any case, little secret was made at the time that it was less about the environment and more about stimulating the flagging motor industry. I do remember "it was popular" without being able to be much more scientific than that although a gun to temple scenario if I had to say one way or the other, then I'd go with yes it worked. Looking at the studies which have been done on it since reveal a number of really fascinating things in fact. Firstly they do rather confirm the factor already mentioned by yourself which I referred to above - despite the mass sweep up of mostly older, dirtier cars, the environmental impact was of overall only the most marginal improvement. The fact it didn't make it worse, I guess is something. Although it does rather highlight the fact it prioritised stimulating car sales over the environment since there was nothing stopping anyone from trading in a low emissions 1999 Golf TDI for a 2009 supercharged Range Rover. And the analyses also highlighted another vital point that is almost universally missed - that despite the ever tightening Euro emissions regs - starting with Euro 1 in 1992 with the compulsory fitment of cats/fuel injection, whilst cars have in theory been getting ever cleaner, studies revealed that how different cars performed in the real world sometimes varied substantially compared to the test results. Leaving "Dieselgate" out of it for the moment one test revealed the following three extraordinary features:- Dirtiest Euro 6 diesels are 6-7 times worse than cleanest Euro 5 Dirtiest Euro 6 diesels are up to 3 times worse than cleanest Euro 3/4 Some 20-year-old cars are cleaner than some brand new cars Although the word "some" is by definition vague, amongst the 400 000 scrappage deals done, if you include both the groups who made a conscious choice to opt for a less economical car (the above Golf for Range Rover example), those who did try to swap for a more economical/cleaner one but who, via the reasons identified above, ended up driving a more polluting one anyway and those who, simply cajoled into buying a diesel car by the government placing lower diesel company tax benefits, lower RFL and generally telling us that by switching, we were doing our bit for the environment - which we were, in a certain way - but then they discovered, particularly in big cities like London, that a) the published low fuel consumption of diesel cars and b) the poor overall performance of diesel cars when driven in dense traffic ref the other pollutants like NOx and soot. And this is the problem - people were, and in some cases remain, confused by the many buzzwords and phrases now being bandied "the environment" "better fuel consumption" "greenhouse gases" "toxic gases" etc etc. There was very much a failure in clearly communicating the message that yes, the goal is still to cut co2 emissions and yes diesel cars tend to be best in achieving those - but not if it means giving thousands of Londoners annually, early deaths thanks to their higher NOx levels, especially in stop start condition - which diesel cars are guilty of. The conclusions are fairly straightforward - the 2009 scrappage scheme may gave provided the motor industry a mld lift, but it did nothing to improve the environment and in fact I discovered many of the cars involved still await to be crushed! So, while I still can't help but feel unmoved by the plight of most on the list, I think it's fair to say any future scrappage schemes must be more targeted and focused. On the other hand who knew in 2009 the effect on rarity, desirability and prices, scrappage would exert just a few short years later? 20 20 hindsight always wonderful😏....

[@jackthatmonkey8994]

How poor is Euro 6 Diesel compared to Euro 2 petrol that gets 20 km/L yearly average?

[@superlazy3355]

I enjoyed reading this, thank you for the time taken 🙏 some very valid points

[@legoferrari14]

Would it be possible to save one of those not-yet-scrapped cars by speaking to whoever is holding them and making an offer?

[@wakeup2theNWO]

Wow I think this is the longest comment I've ever seen 😮 but interesting and definitely agree some of the oldies were cleaner than what they were buying new thinking they were getting rid of an old polluter

[@mikehunte2087]

Wow which journalist not you wrote this then ? Scrappagd a travesty like you said many of the old cars petrol engines still more efficient than modern cars but the powers that be bury this info sadly ☹️

[@BlueXonar]

Unbelievable Geoff. The classic German stuff and the hot French ones especially. The BMW 3.0CSL is the one that actually made my heart ache though... My E30 325i Touring was a pretty rare car when it was new, especially in a manual like mine is. I wonder how many of those were lost... There will probably be another scrappage scheme as part of the idiotic push to EV's. I don't think my heart can take it... I don't want a fucking EV, I want to drive my noisy old fashioned M20B25 powered estate. The main pollutant with cars is production and disposal. Its all so stupid.

[@freddieparrydrums]

Spot on mate

[@lorddarlo6194]

If Anyone scraps an Ftype Jag I will be sad That is my dream car and is beautiful

[@prds25386]

@@lorddarlo6194 if someone does that I hope their new car explodes with them inside

[@XclusiveAaron]

I can't believe ive actually watched the whole video, went in a flash! I started watching on my phone and thought better put this one on the TV! I knew it was bad I've looked into this a lot before but this is even more shocking than I realised. It makes me sad I was old enough to pass my test in 2009 but didn't until 2017 because I just loved fast motorbikes and nothing else mattered to me. The cars I could have had that I now can't find or afford 😭 great video mate well done for putting in all this time and effort and for making the video! Cheers 👍

[@GeoffBuysCars]

it is a proper shocker isn't it dude!!

[@PeterParker-status]

Xr2 & Xr3 used to be a right of passage as a teenager (ridiculous insurance though) before moving on to rs 500 series 1 rs turbo, and the Renault, 5GT Turbo. These are all cars I owned as a younger man, the Orion is a shame my mum had one lol. This also takes lots of perfectly fine cars of the road and hurts the used car market for younger people. It forces them to finance a newer car but that’s obviously by design. Edit. Had to watch this video in 2 half’s, it was genuinely like a knife to my heart. The nova gte over head cam was a very nostalgic car, but there was so many truly classic cars. On a high note I’m glad I found this channel.

[@martynmacleod2211]

I was wondering where all the classic cars went because I remember my dad telling me he bought a rs2000 for practically nothing and now look at the prices and this video has given me the answer. Thank you

[@MacBob]

Shocking. As had been said, the environmental damage from building new and scrapping perfectly good cars is much worse than continuing to drive and maintain them. The same issue continues with the electric "revolution"

[@Sirdoolan]

That so sad that we did that. So many awesome cars, any number of which I would love to own. I didn’t scrap my car because I needed it. I remember you could get a shit car with a years MOT for £100. Absolutely bloody unbelievable Geoff

[@carlotuk]

Unbelievable Geoff is the 2,000 I got for my 55,000 mile Passat in exchange for a new Volvo. The Passat is still on the road today (not sure how that slipped though) whereas the 2010 Volvo spun its bearings and had to go last year.

[@dannyfearn6424]

What I think was sad is the scheme took people out of cars they actually owned and put the majority into PCP deals and they probably never owned another car outright again, but have always had a monthly payment as they changed cars each time their pcp deal was up and went into another car on another pcp deal with another monthly payment 😔

[@RudolphOcker]

All part of the WEF planned, you will own nothing and be happy, future.

[@ronanmc2112]

Unbelievable Geoff! If the MOT exemption for 40 year old plus cars was in place in 2009 only classics on their last legs would have been scrapped. We had a similar scheme here in Ireland in 2009/2010 but only post 1980 cars needed the equivalent of an MOT then so it was only heaps that went into the scheme. The classic scene here is quite small and there were no horror stories of rare cars being traded in against Hyundai i10s.

[@Sorted7]

Unbelievable Geoff! I remember the air field of doom just up the road from me where they all sat waiting for the crusher. It made me cry

[@GeoffBuysCars]

I've seen the videos of the field but you can only get the true scope from the spreadsheet itself, I only dipped into the spreadsheet to find a few details and couldn't help myself processing the whole lot.

[@mikeymike3240]

Same

[@johntheoldmod]

Unbelievable Geoff, this is the first of your videos that I have seen, you put in an incredible amount of work for this and I find it hard to believe that over 42,000 people watched this and only 1000 of them thought it worthy of a like. Thank you for the perfectly put together information. I'm Subbed.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Welcome aboard! And thanks so much. Somehow missed this comment before!

[@jinglemyberries866]

somebody went and scrapped their LS400?! WHY?! I cant be the only one who's fuming hearing this list! Unbelievable Jeff

[@Toot-The-Shoot]

Unbelievable Geoff! Appreciate I'm late to the party having only recently discovered your excellent channel but, how sad that is. I have quite often wondered 'what happened to those', having forgotten about the scrappage scheme. So many classics and perfectly roadworthy runabouts lost. Many of those sacrificed would not have been in great shape but, that wouldn't have meant they were beyond saving. Simple cars (by modern standards) that were cheap and easy to run. I'm a firm believer in make do and mend. Happy to say that I'm taking good care of an E39 530D M-Sport (323 roadworthy left) and a W126 500 SEL (101 roadworthy left). Keep up the great work!

[@jamielawn1568]

Unbelievable Geoff. Proper shame on that side of things.

[@slashnburndotcodotuk]

Unbelievable Geoff. Plus it wasn't just UK and Europe. It was also in the States, called "Cash For Clunkers". A global scheme, it also went on in Australia, Singapore, and Indonesia that I've heard of.

[@mysticcollector8258]

Yeah some real good cars with a lot of life left, destroyed for no good reason

[@stephencollins9062]

You will own nothing and be happy. The great reset. 2030

[@p24hrsmith]

Unbelievable Geoff ... There is a vid that shows the storage facility many of these cars went to and there was so many classic cars that must have been worth more than what people got on the scrappage scheme You can't help thinking who the hell scrapped them surely many would have been owned by people who loved them

[@Giratina1999]

This truly makes me sad. There were some genuine classics in there that you’ll never find on import sites anymore

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Totally.

[@Oh-Jay52]

Unbelievable Geoff but so true, I remember also that when they were scrapped you COULD NOT buy 2nd hand parts of them at scrapyards that got paid to process them. They were literally taking them and crushing them . So win win for hiking even the 2nd hand spares business prices , Hence why most old cars get scrpped now as 2nd hand doors windows etc are not availale anymore.

[@amato5232]

If only some savvy dealers had skipped the gov contribution and just given £2k px. The beemers are the ones that hit me. ULEZ feels like we're going down a similar road to drive old cars off the road, scary stuff. Unbelievable Geoff. That was actually a fast half hour watching that

[@TwinTowerTwo]

It's all part of the 'you'll own nothing' plan, the ev's are a scam as well, within a decade none of them will still be working and there will be millions of batteries going into landfill, it's also part of a war on movement where (they) don't want anyone travelling very far..

[@TABRO284]

E10 fuel is doing the same killing older cars that would otherwise be reliable.

[@rkan2]

EV swap them before you cant lol

[@nnglnd]

Modern cars don't have such good emissions either.

[@AAARREUUUGHHHH]

@@TABRO284 You can still buy E10 lol, it just costs a bit more

[@394pjo]

Weeping for the E34 M5 touring. The S38 engine that powered them was a work of art. I saw one being sold a few years ago, by Sotheby's of all places, and the final bid on it was over eighty thousand pounds.

[@aidy6000]

I pray the former owner of that Scrapped M5 lived to find out their value now.

[@jonathancolling2284]

They all had to have an MOT too !!! My Parents scrapped a Toyota Corolla with 29,000 miles (no one wanted to buy it for even £800!) We had to get it MOT'ed before it could be taken in PX and then CRUSHED ! It was INSANE. The Honda Dealer gave them £2000 for it

[@Blackmamba12345]

Not really insane as they got over twice as much trading it in.

[@HamiltonMechanical]

Unbelievable Geoff! A similar thing happened here in the states, and we, as well, lost a ton of cars that had no business being off the road. my buddy worked at a scrapyard at the time and it was downright depressing.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

I did a video on the USA data too, it wasn’t pretty

[@HamiltonMechanical]

@@GeoffBuysCars dude, i saw a toyota t-100 :( and that's all i needed to see to be gutted. that's my dream truck. the only ones you find for sale now are totally trashed. This one appeared to be very nice. I couldn't believe it. Some of the cars were only 4-5 years old!

[@gordonwelcher9598]

In the US they had to fill the engine with some kind of cement. Insane waste.

[@sanjaymazumder4235]

Unbelievable Geoff. Have been looking for a Volvo 460/440 so it's sad to see so many gone.

[@leebrown6623]

Very interesting. It’s sad that so many cool cars didn’t live on and most would still be here now! Better than some of the boring mundane cars about today 😩

[@LondonCityEvents]

Unbelievable Jeff, this is heartbreaking all of those classic cars scrapped breaks me

[@timmorodgers4271]

When the scrappage trade in value was subtracted from the list price of a new car it was usually more or less what the dealer would negotiate down to without a trade in anyway. The scheme was less about environmental concerns and more about boosting the new car market. The cheap "banger" end of the market (the end I inhabit) was absolutely decimated too, meaning far less bargain bangers for those on a budget.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Exactly, and after I did the spreadsheet and really understood the statistics, I felt like giving up on cars completely. All the cars I love, that used to be affordable, had their numbers deliberately culled. So now when I find a clean and tidy bog spec volvo estate, I get excited, when I shouldn’t, because if it wasn’t for a ridiculously thought out government scheme, they’d be everywhere.

[@noble_wolf]

All those big, comfy barges that used to sell for £600, you just don't see them any more. Covid has spiked used prices even further ; 55 plate stuff that used to sell for £1500 a couple of years ago is now 3.5k !!

[@richardgeorge8612]

Thank you so much for this Geoff, after watching a urban explorers video of them visiting a disused uk military airfield with at least 10,000 vehicles on the so called scrappage scheme I wonder where some of these vehicles will end up as no one would scrap a porsche 911 or a range rover svr in place of something that is complety flawed

[@gwyn.thomas]

Unbelievable Geoff - gutted about some of these.

[@a.g.s_films]

Unbelievable Geoff….man that was heart wrenching 😣

[@GeoffBuysCars]

it's the music at the end that gets you, it's almost as bad as my Volvo V70 California build part 5 with the James Blunt bit. Look it up, ha ha.

[@rayaspo4893]

Unbelievable Jeff. This brought a tear to my eye. All those classics gone forever. Worst idea ever.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Nailed it with this comment. I felt drained after I’d filmed this, but spent about 6 hours straight editing it because the information had to come out!!

[@Blackmamba12345]

Good idea. Helped get the economy going and spending. That's what we need in this country. I'm waiting for another scrappage scheme and I will scrap my mk4 Golf.

[@opelmonzagse]

Unbelievable Geoff, lots of classics were destroyed!

[@HardcoreHighlights]

It's actually seriously upsetting. Sadness of the subject matter aside, you've got a natural skill for talking about this kind of thing and delivering a story in a way that's a nice blend of conversational, informal yet reflective and analytical. Nice one mate.

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Thanks so much! USA data coming up next, all 600,000 of it.

[@seeleeuk168]

Unbelievable Geoff. I had an Austin 3Lr, gosh 30 years ago now, and was a classic back then. SO sad to have to scrap it due to a bloody horse climbing the bonnet and putting a dirty great hoof through the driver side wing even though I'd parked as far into the hedge on that side as I could to protect it from a bunch of horses being herded up the road. But na, stoppid thing just had to climb across my bonnet. There was no other 3Lr being broken at the time in the UK and no way could I afford to pay for a hand built wing. I was an owner of one of the only 3 left in the country at the time. It was a gas guzzler but I used to love driving through the town centre at slow speed and hear the purr of the tyres on the tarmac. Thanks for the great memories I had the the Austin 3Lr but so sad to see other beautiful classics scrapped during this scheme!

[@seeleeuk168]

P.S. never let me down once in the 7 years I owned it! Never broke down or failed to start first turn of the key in the coldest of winters either.

[@greatbritannialine]

Unbelievable Geoff The scrappage scheme was an absolute travesty. It makes me sick what happened to these classics

[@NEtrailrider1]

Unbelievable Geoff, I work at a dealer in the U.S. and remember when this went on it was crazy, we had to seize the engines that was the gov's way of making sure the vehicle wouldn't be back on the road that and a scrap title. we didn't get any classic cars that I remember but most were newer than what i could afford. I wounder what the data would show for the U.S. market although maybe I don't want to know.

[@danvitesse]

Thanks for all your hard work in putting this data together. I think the scrappage scheme was one of the most stupid government ideas to date being beaten only by the introduction of smart motorways.... (I would love to see the data concerning those) The scrappage scheme meant the loss of future classics much needed parts for older models out of manufacture and the loss of cheap transport for those that had no other option. I am particularly fond of british classic cars i own an 827 Fastback and two SD1s as someone who spents alot of time restoring them it breaks my heart to know over twenty four thousand Rovers were scrapped and numerous classic Austins

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Yes the 827 fastback would have featured in the data, and you're spot on about smart motorways. What a scandal they are, i've broken down on them twice and it's terrifying.

[@jimp1646]

Unbelievable Geoff. Very sad to see how many desirable cars were wiped out of existence.

[@binarybox.binarybox]

Unbelievable Geoff! I didn't trade my Corolla in and kept it going for years. Now I have cars with electronic packages which I can't get hold of. Cars of the 60s could be repaired on the drive and now we have garages which I don't trust and they haven't a clue about diagnosing the tech stuff. If they had a scrappage scheme now to change to an EV , I wouldn't want an EV for free....there won't be enough leccy to charge all the cars and the batteries aren't lasting that well.

[@raytabs5879]

This is absolutely heartbreaking, the classics people sent to the crusher.

[@jonnyabba25]

Unbelievable Geoff! And gutting, especially the Alfa and Lancia numbers.

[@tumbleweeduk7479]

The 2009 HUMAN SCRAPPAGE scheme was the worst. My best friend, despite my protestations, chose to have a 2009 flu injection and was dead two weeks later after two weeks of increasingly traumatic breathing problems. That was the rehearsal for the current atrocity! I still have her very healthy 23-year-old cat who has not been vaccinated for 14 years. Namaste 🙏💜🙏

[@MattF340]

You utter melt.

[@jasonw3204]

As I watched this in Australia I was amazed that u guys did this seeing the cars lined up me and my mates were saying sell them to us

[@GeoffBuysCars]

It really was such a wasteful thing. The USA scheme made a bit more sense because it was based around MPG, but it's shocking. Did you have nothing like this in Australia?

[@jasonw3204]

@@GeoffBuysCars no mate they would have a big problem if they tried the new cars brake here we got big problems with houses u can have a good job and nowhere to live been like it a while so buying a new car way down the list for most Australians at the moment and on one makes them here now Australians would not serport it we don't care if car makers go broke

[@JinderSongs]

Unbelievable, Geoff. An absolute tragedy. As a Volvo 7/900 series enthusiast I find it unthinkable that collectively we lost close to 1600 of them. Most of those cars would still be on the road now!