COMEDY Killed the MCU

[@KoongYe]

Marvel used to laugh WITH it's audience. Now MCU laughs at them saying "Do you see how absurd it is? How you are watching people in spandex fighting CGI monsters?"

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

Yeah, kind of feels like we're back to them ridiculing us fans for liking comics and comic book movies.

[@sirensong237]

I mean.. they’ve always been self-aware.. that’s the point of Marvel.. to be superheroes, but to also poke fun at themselves for it.. going from fighting gods and world-ending threats, to having a beach day as soon as you turn the next page..

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@@sirensong237 there's self-aware and then there's actively mocking. The MCU feels like it's mocking us and these characters

[@UnwantedGhost1]

​@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Because it essentially is the case.

[@sirensong237]

@@souventudubanned *marvel

[@cruicalrexy1220]

I feel so strongly with this take for example Thor love and thunder had the arguably darkest villian in Thor’s catalogue but then they made the movie a joke.

[@deadpoolchimichangas7111]

I was furious when they killed Gor, he is literally a thanos threat level.

[@Koffe3BeanzYT]

Why is everyone hating on this film? I enjoyed it

[@opornogeros]

Fr had so much potential for a proper dark plot Sadge

[@faded1to3black]

@@Koffe3BeanzYT because it was stupid.

[@axhen]

i still feel they treated goor right compared to kang

[@jmace2424]

Not gonna lie, I always cry every time Yondu says “He may have been your father, Boy, but he he wasn’t your daddy.”

[@EvilExcalibur]

Yondu had more heart and soul in those two movies than the entirety of phase 4 combined. It says a lot about the writing of the character when a line that silly can hit that hard.

[@dewolf123]

@@EvilExcalibur James Gunn actually knows proper tonal placement with drama and humor, that's why he rebooted Suicide Squad and it was times better than the prior since he took his time writing it with stakes, heartfelt emotion and proper tone for humor.

[@vnquoctru]

Taken out of context this would be really dumb & cringey. But here it's impactful & emotional. A phase 4 movie would easily make a cheap joke out of it.

[@EduFabolous]

@@dewolf123 yeah sometimes but the dance of or whatever in GOTG was just .. cringe, dumb, stupid ?

[@dewolf123]

@@EduFabolous That's likely the point since other characters found it weird and cringed to even Ronan.

[@Dino_Boy.01]

The comedy worked back then because it fitted well with the scene rather then LOL random humor.

[@viscountrainbows2857]

I'm getting flashbacks of when Poe Dameron just smacktalks Kylo Ren when he literally just saw him kill a potential worthy source of information for essentially the same reason. This tryhard shit is nothing new in cinema or media in general but, lately it has become *so* grating it renders modern products almost inedible with the moldy "LOL random" energy you mentioned.

[@rethablair6902]

And plus Tony was alive then

[@petriew2018]

the comedy worked because it was Joss Whedon. Whatever you think about the man personally, when it comes to tonal balance the man's a genius. He knows when to use humor to humanize characters, and more importantly he knows when to leave the humor out. HE is why Avengers, even with it's corny jokes, worked. again, whatever you may think of him personally i won't argue with. Man knows how to write a screenplay is all i'm saying. Disney's trying to replace him with writers that have a fraction of his talent and no understanding of what he was actually doing with humor, they just think it has to be there in every scene because that's what Marvel does. The entire company has completely forgotten WHY it's part of Marvel, they just seem to think it has to be there.

[@Thed538dhsk]

I disagree, I don't think the mcu has comedy

[@garenthal9638]

Went from serious scenario with funny characters to funny situation with dumb characters

[@gimmeyourrights8292]

Puss In Boots The Last Wish was surprisingly mature for what it was. A talking cat movie, it had comedic moments but it also knew when to stop the comedy in exchange for serious moments. Like when Puss was having a panic attack and Perrito was helping him through it, it was mature and you could feel what the characters were feeling. The MCU just doesn't do this anymore.

[@alexman378]

It had comedy, but it was never to the detriment of the characters. Perrito for example, being ignorant of true heinous stuff that happened in his life because of his overwhelming positivity comes across as funny, but it’s because that’s how he is. Or with Jack, the jokes with him being incredibly and unapologetically evil are funny, but that’s because it’s how he is, it’s not a hinderance.

[@somecallmejeremy]

If The Last Wish was made in the MCU, that panic attack would've been a joke in the next movie.

[@datguy3581]

I'd argue that Wakanda Forever handled its humor pretty well. It wasn't the funniest humor but it was placed in ways that didn't undermine the serious moments with Namor or conversations about T'challa.

[@somecallmejeremy]

@@datguy3581 No need to argue here because it's a fact and dare I say that they are only forced to do that because of Chadwick's passing which is a shame because while the movie still has its flaws, if you're looking for an emotional superhero movie about grief and sorrow, then watching it won't disappoint you.

[@jhoughjr1]

I can recall much of the 1st puss in boot so many years later, but I thought it was a great movie. It didnt feel childish to me

[@MrDudemansir-pr8xc]

I was watching Avengers: Age of Ultron today and I was reminded that there was a time when Hulk and Thor for example weren't jokes. They were forces to be reckoned with. I miss that.

[@arturocastroverde3349]

True but that movie have a lot of cringe jokes. Ultron is a clown

[@gyozafreak]

Let's be honest, Age of Ultron was the turning point where the tonal shift began.

[@arturocastroverde3349]

@@gyozafreak false. It was Spiderman Far From.Home

[@gyozafreak]

@@arturocastroverde3349 I disagree, Age of ultron is when everything wrong from present MCU started to pop-up: Movies that are just trailer for other movies, set up a shit ton of stuff at the cost of character development, out of place jokes (primarily Ultron not being the therminator it deserves to be) and unfulfilliong ending because we need to set up another stack of movies

[@arturocastroverde3349]

@@gyozafreak 1.Way back in phase 1 iron man 2 was a trailer for the next movie. 2.Movies like Civil War, GOTG 2, Homecoming and Black Panther aren't just trailers for the next movies.

[@mandodiaz7647]

Also something about Hulk. That he was a monster, it made sense that Hulk wouldn't listen to a speech. He's rage incarnate. MCU hulk is like watching the evolution of a wolf turn into a poodle by the She-Hulk show.

[@valletas]

It wasnt she hulk This all started with age of ultron it just got worse overtime Especially in infinity war that one is the worst portrayal of the hulk

[@SnakeMan448]

I think that the real problem with Hulk and Banner is that their character development didn't feel earned. Them settling their differences and merging off screen is bad writing. I disagree with most people in that I think that Hulk should be allowed to be more than a destructive weapon and become a dork now that he isn't afraid and angry all the time, but that change deserves on-screen development.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@@SnakeMan448 my problem is that's the end point for the far far future. Like if they were to do time travel and went into they future, you would see Professor Hulk. Bruce being cursed is what makes him interesting. But also, you don't just get rid of Hulk. That's not an arc, that's getting rid of half the character. You especially don't do that in the final film where there's a grand climactic battle. They turned Hulk into a stagnant character, and removed what made him dynamic. You could replace Professor Hulk with any smart Marvel character and it wouldn't change anything.

[@SnakeMan448]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Isn't keeping him as a curse for ages also just making him a stagnant character?

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@@SnakeMan448 that's the character. Not very difficult to write. Bruce struggles with Hulk for control. He's got a bit of edge to him. He's not supposed to be this family friendly Disney character. Whatever development needs to have to do with Bruce and Hulk, not getting rid of one. Like World War Hulk where Hulk and Bruce essentially merged because they were both so angry. Hulk believed that his friends killed his wife and child. Reached a point of anger they never had before. The result was them going after and destroying Earth's heroes. That's how you do something like that. Not some family friendly Shrek. So insignificant an forgettable.

[@ellenBeliever]

The comedy in GOTG works well because it really suits those characters and their personalities. Iron Man's humor and snark suits his personality. But now it's like they want everything to have that humor until all their personalities are the same, until you can't distinguish Iron Man from Star Lord and Star Lord from Thor. These used to be unique individual characters with their own kind of humor and personalities, but now it all just blends together.

[@jhoughjr1]

which really breaks it as all those characters are from different universes and should all be pretty unique in personality.

[@ellenBeliever]

@@jhoughjr1 Yes!!!

[@melize7035]

The second one is quite awful if you even remember it. You know the one with the r*p*st planet villain.

[@LeviAckerman-cb5ji]

I don't know what you're talking about. We all remember how zany and hilarious Doctor Strange was in the comics.😜

[@StandWatie1862]

Yeah it's hack writers

[@lotterynj]

This is sooooo on point. The writers seem to not even try to stay on the story at all

[@carlosrivas1629]

screw you, its trendy to crap on Marvel now, they always had jokes, get over it.

[@jackdeviant2025]

Early MCU knew how to balance wit and banter with serious moments. Can you imagine any of the serious scenes in the Captain America movies-like red skulls face reveal, Bucky's "death", any part of winter soldier, the revelation about Tony's parents- if someone threw in a fart joke or something, and completely ruined the mood. And sadly, Thor 4 showed it could take itself seriously, but it only did the bare BARE minimum.

[@nont18411]

Tony: found out Bucky killed his parent. Bucky: farts.

[@WanderTheNomad]

@@nont18411 "cmon I was being mind controlled! manchurian candidate remember? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

[@silverscorpio24]

You remember that tense scene between Loki and Natasha in Avengers 2012? If that were written today some rando SHIELD agent would loudly stumble into the room crunching on a bag of chips.

[@Idiodyssey87]

Thor: Loses father. Loses friends. Loses brother. Loses homeworld. Played for comedy Scarlet Witch: Loses robot boyfriend Brainwashes town Played for pathos

[@_V.Va_]

Well she did also lose her brother to Ultron, and was experimented on and held captive. But still, your point is valid.

[@hailey857]

Thor: also loses mom and lover

[@hailey857]

@@_V.Va_ she also did lose her parents, she really deserved better than the shows plot. She could’ve had a healing arc after

[@IzzyQueen12]

Correction. Scarlet Witch lost her parents, her brother, her country, lost her partner, her children, was seen as a monster and feared (before WandaVision), and lost literally everything with no one to go to/help comfort her. Thor still has someone aka the Guardians of the Galaxy and even a daughter. I’m not excusing Wanda’s actions, I’m just saying that you shouldn’t downplay her trauma cuz she suffered so much and prob even suffered more than Thor.

[@TheAbsol7448]

I was so mad at how Thor was handled in Endgame. I wasn't mad about them making him a fat alcoholic who never leaves the house. I was angry about the "hurhur fat alcoholic Thor" dialogue.

[@Nr4747]

It was actually so refreshing to watch Dune twice in theaters because the story was actually told *straight* as a drama. There were no "they fly now?"-gags in the middle of supposedly life-or-death chase scene.

[@razorburn645]

They told the story instead of trying to be meta poke fun at it. Sadly they kind of made Gurney a bit to serious.

[@ShockedGuy863]

I saw Shang-Chi in theaters and as soon as I saw the beef or veggie scene, I was like, “film video essayists are going to HATE THIS.”

[@huntercool2232]

Thor Love and Thunder is the perfect example of taking comedy too far. There were just to many freaking jokes in the movie and there were so many deleted scenes of them taking the movie more seriously. You couldn’t take the movie seriously for a single moment even when it was trying to be serious. Thor Ragnarok definitely had A LOT of jokes in it, but they didn’t necessarily overkill with them and did them at appropriate moments and were still serious when they needed to be. And even Thor himself has always had a witty comedic side to him, but it has never been at the cost of his character until Thor 4.

[@gameragodzilla]

Nah, I felt Thor Ragnarok was every bit as bad as Love and Thunder and I hated that movie. The only reason people liked it was because it was different from before. Now that the new shine has worn off, people realize how bad that direction was for Thor. Hell, at least Christian Bale was acting his ass off whenever he was onscreen in Love and Thunder. Even Hela was ruining moments making jokes in Ragnarok.

[@thecensoredmuscle563]

Ragnarok was overkill with the jokes also. It's why I didn't even want to watch the recent movie.

[@saffronjuice]

Ragnarok overkilled it with the jokes. And became the catalyst of making Thor a punchline in these movies

[@jasontodd6604]

The jokes killed Ragnarok

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

Ragnorak started it. Brought all comedy, and no drama. Taiki made me not care about the deaths of the Warriors 3, the death of Odin, the destruction of Asgard. Either he quickly rushed to the next action scene, or there was a stupid joke.

[@natto4now]

The thing thing with the mcu is that at least for phase 1 tony was the only one that joked around, other than him and maybe nick fury everyone else took things seriously but now it's everyone is trying to have that deadpan humor

[@spider-man500]

EXACTLY! Spider-Man and Iron Man are SUPPOSED to be funny. It's apart of their characters and for surprisingly deep reasons. But now that EVERYBODY is a comedian, what's there to laugh at anymore?

[@TriTomMaximum]

I didn't care for Thor suddenly getting a sense of humor literally minutes after his dad died.

[@Fatsaver]

Nick Furry lol

[@natto4now]

@@Fatsaver lol

[@rethablair6902]

💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@PaulDozierZZoMBiE13]

Marvel has become the embodiment of the Spongebob "Ripped Pants" episode.

[@zoopzoooom]

One scene in Love & Thunder, of many, that STILL infuriates me since the moment it happened when I saw it in the theater and perfectly encapsulates what Alteori is saying, was when Valkyrie was clearly amusing herself by tickling Thor’s nose while he was TRYING TO CONSOLE THE CHILDREN WHO WERE KIDNAPPED BY A GOD-KILLER!!! I do not talk during movies but this made me accidentally say “Stop it!” out loud. But someone sitting behind me then followed up “For real, that’s stupid!” So at least I wasn’t alone.

[@kicknowledgesmith8608]

yup that and the joke about sith's arm.

[@One.Zero.One101]

The original Star Wars had a lot of comedy, but when Luke faced Vader in Empire Strikes Back, no one was laughing. If the director inserted a comedy bit there, he would be ruining his own scene, he would be sabotaging the emotion he's trying to evoke. That's what directors today are unintentionally doing, they're sabotaging their own scenes with misplaced comedy.

[@HandintheBoxInc]

Couldn't agree more. This is what makes the OG Tobey Maguire Spider-Man movies great. Sam Rami knows when to let the drama play out without intreupting it with comedy. Same with James Gunn's comic book movies. They show mature restraint

[@raydhen8840]

True, Sam Raimi & James Gunn still has a thing lot of modern MCU writers lacks: Sincerity. Sincerity is what makes us care about talking raccoon and walking tree that can only speak 3 same words. It what makes us care of C & D-tier villain like Peacemaker & friggin Polka-Dot Man. Not to mention retaining their looks in all comic book glory. Give these characters to any modern MCU writers, or anyone responsible to what makes MCU into what it is now, and see how quick they could messed up.

[@HandintheBoxInc]

@@raydhen8840 I couldn’t agree more

[@DHynes5]

Agreed about Sam Raimi, but James Gunn ran into that problem himself with GotG Vol. 2! Sure it does have much more sincerety than a majority of the other MCU movies, but my biggest issue with that movie is that it can't decide on what tone it wants to go for. It doesn't work for me when a scene that shows the millions of skulls that were Ego's former children and the reveal that he killed Peter's mother is immediately followed on with "HA HA, LOOK NOW HE'S DAVID HASSELHOFF!!"

[@HandintheBoxInc]

@@DHynes5 I see what you mean. I think I’m like well it’s better than nothing so I’ll take what I can get. All in all Rami is better at balancing it effectively

[@Linklex7]

Even Deadpool knew when to be serious.

[@theelephantintheroom69]

Having Taika Watiti direct MCU films was one of the biggest mistakes MARVEL made.

[@otarzan]

Top tier comment. Ragnarok was the worst thing to happen to the MCU

[@hazman5528]

@@otarzantop tier garbage opinion. Ragnarok is a great MCU movie. This is only true for love and thunder

[@abdulazimnaushad]

Nope looking back I think Ragnarok was a litmus test fr him to see how bad he could make Love and Thunder. If you don’t believe me check out that tweet of his. I’ll ruin your mythos baby.

[@Sonofman1998]

Not true. I actually liked Thor Love And Thunder but it could've been way better then it was.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@@hazman5528 Top Tier garbage opinion. Ragnorak is shit and ruined Thor by turning him into a bigger clown than StarLord. This is true for both movies. Cut it out.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

We used to get dramas with Superhero elements mixed in, and now we get comedies with Superhero elements mixed in.

[@aerystargaryenii2565]

Doesn't work as well as it does with the drama.

[@Dino_Boy.01]

GOTG humor is amazing because of the main characters interaction with each other like the dance off scene. Random but it’s appropriate because it’s star lord doing it making it work, if they made it gamora it’s just LOL random because she is serious.

[@Alteori]

Oh God the dance off scene is THE BEEEEEESST!!!!!! I ALWAYS crack up at that! The way Gamora shakes her head no LMAO. The way Ronin is like, "What are u doin?" in the most calm voice ever LOL

[@Dino_Boy.01]

@@Alteori for real 🤣

[@opornogeros]

Trueee comedy works so well in GOTG thanks to the character dynamics

[@alexman378]

Yeah, but applying it to everyone is the same thing DC tried to do with every character after the success of the Dark Knight trilogy. Everyone had to be dark and gritty, when it doesn’t suit everyone, it suits Batman. Same with Iron Man, him being a sarcastic, quick witted quip machine works for him, but they are trying to make everyone like that.

[@ArnoldFrost]

@@alexman378 I don't think OP is implying all MCU characters are supposed to be like Quill, they're just pointing out why Quill works when doing the funny moments (because he's a dense, 80's-stuck buffoon; Rocket would suck because his snarkiness and no-nonsense personality conflicts with it, Drax and Gamora are too serious, and Groot is well...Groot). The people around him, specifically Ronan and Gamora, don't play along and admonish him to make the comedy work, since there has to be a serious person receiving a joke or at least be around when a joke is made to make it truly comedic

[@bliczb8772]

I think it's worth mentioning that the issue of comedy overflow is not just exclusive to MCU. It has spread into other areas, other IP's. Famously, Henry Cavill fought to keep the Roach death straight in the Witcher TV series. Reason being that the writers wanted to throw in a meta joke in there (I know, it's like something is crawling through your skin when you hear these words). And they even explained why on one of the interviews - one of writers said that "when you look at how real people deal with difficult situations, it's with humour, and planted that as much as we can" (just as a sidenote: In that interview, you could see Henry regretting his life choices that led him there). So, not only is this not how people deal with real situations, it tells us quite alot about writers themselves. Chances are, that's how they deal with difficult situations, trying to laugh their way through. The problem is, this will never work - whenever you're trying to make yourself laugh during difficult times, you'll not only find out that it's not working, you'll notice that the opposite is true - it seems to drag you down harder and harder. That's because, at the end of a day, you need to face things at face value. What the event really means, and the consequences following it. At the end of the day, the laughter is an escape. But you can't run forever. The writers haven't figured it out. Or maybe they did, but they're too scared to face the truth, so they continue to lie to themselves. All I know is that the quote from lady writing for the Witcher was pretty telling.

[@madeliner1682]

I mean, laughing through dark times is a thing real people do, and it can work under certain circumstances, but they usually don't make jokes half a second after witnessing the tragedy firsthand, and there certainly isn't a quippy punchline on every even remotely serious moment

[@jhoughjr1]

@@madeliner1682 levity is not gallows humor though. I've never seen someone joke about losing a spouse for example. Its one thing for some dark wit, its another when its a ctachphrase for the lols in a movie, regardless of what real ppl do.

[@madeliner1682]

@@jhoughjr1 yeah definitely. Dark humor absolutely exists, but it's not at all what marvel is doing

[@raquer10]

Apparently these writers did not watch Inside Out. They could learn a lesson or two there.

[@ginichilders9619]

Sincerity and taking stuff seriously is apparently "cringe". 😑

[@WormiT]

Completely agree. It feels like Marvel is afraid of their own storytelling, and think that if they can't succeed in making a scene with enough tension or emotion so they just add comedy to it as it breaks the tension and almost guarantees a laugh. It's really the comedic version of a jump-scare where there's a scene building tension and suddenly it's thrown of with something "unexpected" suddenly happening, and it only really works the first time you see it.

[@akanesakurada8298]

No wonder why Twitter users are getting angry when someone is critical to Marvel and thinking Marvel is always the top of movies.

[@kingdon7795]

In the ultimate universe Nick Fury lost his eye because of wolverine. They could have used that story and that would have been the perfect introduction of Logan in the MCU.

[@kingagrabowska9366]

There are a couple of rules to have an effective comedy: - Time and place! Don't destroy your emotional character and plot important moments with a joke. That way even if people think it's funny they will hate it. - Does it make sense for a character to make that joke? - It's related to the previous one but if you have a bunch of characters you would probably like for their style of humor to be special and unique to their character. - Element of surprise. If people already see what the punchline is going to be it's not funny. Everybody is already familiar with snarky MCU.

[@4aw50fGold]

I enjoyed GOTG for the realistic elements of Masking Emotions as we grow older. Many characters there weren’t allowed a childhood to hide that many turn to comedy or a harsh attitude as a personality to connect or hide from others. It struck a personal chord at the time.

[@arcticstar13]

The only movie in phase 4 which didn't focus on humour I'd say was No Way Home. Sure it had humour, but they never put condo fight and Aunt May's death. They let the moment hit the audience and gave some major growth for the character

[@garibaldibritann1240]

Black Panther 2: Wakanda Forever also have a less quips/humour due to focusing on grief and struggle of the characters which is done better than some MCU films in its phase 4

[@IshtarNike]

It still had too much. Like right before the final battle we cut to a full scene of the Parkers just chilling out cracking jokes. I almost turned it off right there. It's dog shit. May is dead and we're cracking jokes. They destroy the tone and seriousness of the movies and the main problem is it's so transparent. It doesn't feel natural anymore. You have comedic characters here and there but now practically everyone is comedy relief and it starts to just feel cheap.

[@arcticstar13]

While true, Spidy has always been abit of a joke cracker, and while Tom's Parker was going through a lot, Andrew and Tobey's Parker's would make sense, since they haven't gone through as much in that movie. Plus, they're probably very interested in each other seeing each other, I mean its not often you meet yourself, but I can see why it would be a turn off in the moment

[@TPoyser]

Wakanda Forever also didn't have a lot of Comedy in it

[@garibaldibritann1240]

@@TPoyser It has but they don't overlap it into its serious scene like if Riri's quip interrupts T'Challa's funeral

[@FeatherRanching]

Breaking an emotional moment with a joke CAN work, but only sparingly, and under specific conditions. Once that emotional resonance is lost, the PURPOSE of the scene is gone, causing it to become unmemorable.

[@SidheKnight]

Yup. And it depends on what kind of emotional moment it is. Interrupting a long awaited passionate kiss with a joke can sometimes enhance the joy of the moment. Interrupting a moment of grief or mourning with a joke is usually a really bad idea.

[@WanderTheNomad]

@@SidheKnight Maybe if someone is breaking a joke to cope with the loss, perhaps even the type of joke they would've made with the person they're mourning, but it doesn't work and just reminds them of what they can't have ever again, and the tears they were holding back slowly start breaking the dam until it's pouring out.

[@shealupkes]

every time I try to make this argument I get "it's just a comic book movie, it doesn't have to be dark and serious" and its the same mentality as assuming animation is for children and making a good movie suddenly stops being important when these things are factors

[@TPoyser]

Have they not seen Logan, the Dark Knight Trilogy or The Batman?

[@ginichilders9619]

@@TPoyser nope. They think those movies are too "grimdark" and "joyless" and "take themselves too seriously". Especially in the case of the TDK Trilogy and Christopher Nolan in general, who gets accused of being a snob who's apparently "ashamed of the source material". It all goes hand in hand with their continuous usage of the term "inherent silliness".

[@ginichilders9619]

Yes! I've never been able to entirely pinpoint why that argument annoyed me so much whenever I heard it and you've summed it up perfectly. I mean, I don't mind mindless entertainment and escapism, but there is a problem in expecting everything else to conform to that mold and then getting angry when they find that square peg work that doesn't fit the round hole of their expectations even when said work was clear from the start that it wasn't ever aiming to be a round peg.

[@shealupkes]

@@ginichilders9619 if anything I found nolans work the most faithful to the source material next to Michael reeves, I was much more excited about the prospect of one of those two encountering the more supernatural and superhuman components of the mythos than I did with Clooney or Affleck(with respect to all actors involved)

[@moviehermit5631]

I believe another factor of this is how the plot has overtaken the characters. Almost every project is designed around setting up the next project (which is also designed to set up the next project). One character's solo movie also acts as an origin movie for another character, They're setting up all the pieces for the *big crossover event* with Kang. This, alongside with the influx of projects being made and released means less time and focus on the complexities of the characters and more on setting up the future plots. The constant jokes are the only way to make these characters feel like characters instead of walking plot devices. We aren't even seeing the characters anymore, just the actors riffing with each other (especially now that masks and helmets are becoming non-existent with nanotech that retracts every 5 seconds). Marvel has begun relying on the dynamics between the actors to give the impression of character depth so they can focus on not finalizing their designs until the last minute and rushing the VFX artists to essentially create most of the movie. A big example of this is in Quantumania. They speed through the family dynamics in the first 20 minutes, give us some exposition on how Cassie became a super genius in the 5 year gap by reading Hank's notes on the Quantum Realm, and building the signal just so the plot can pull them into the Quantum Realm ASAP. There's no depth or development and Cassie never comes across as someone who actually became that smart and that capable. They sacrifice the substance in favour of spectacle and paint over it with jokes to hide the lack of anything. Another comparison is with the side characters in Sam Raimi's Spider-man compared to the MCU. When you think about it, we know basically nothing about Ned and MJ outside of their connection to Peter. We don't know how long Peter and Ned have been friends, we don't know anything about either of their family lives, they just exist to be Peter's friends. Now look at the Raimi movies and how we see stuff about Harry and MJ in their own lives. We learn what their home lives are like, their personal struggles, etc. They feel like real people with real lives (I still enjoy the characters of Ned and Michelle, I still see the lack of depth as they are more archetypes as opposed to developed characters)

[@horrorsymphony]

Finally someone who gets this. I've been saying this for years but no one seems to get it

[@Das112293]

Hello Alteori. They should bring back the seriousness in the marvel movies. The drama, the emotions, add some high stakes to it with a bit of unexpected comedy to it. Let's hope they bring it back in future marvel movies. Anyway, another great video, Alteori, I like it, see you in the next one.

[@elizabethhurlbut1475]

Thank you for calling this out. I felt the anger against She Hulk was not because of her humour (which yes was in her comic). She Hulk just had the bad timing of being the last straw of years and years of MCU jokes. If the other Marvel heroes weren't robbed of their serious and intense moments, Jennifer's humour could have been seen as fun break in the pattern, just as Deadpool's jokes were for his films. Jokes are funny because they're different, it stops being funny when it's all the same. It's ironic that Disney films are putting cartoony humour into each movie but the live-action remakes of their animated films are retold as serious and realistic, drained of the original's animated fun and magic.

[@temwananinkana3419]

What marvel has forgotten is, the films before phase 3 , especially before phase 3, the films were so good because they were films first and heroes later. The films were grounded and made to b films that just happen to have superheroes in them. Not the other way round.

[@deadpoolchimichangas7111]

It really depends, like you can put comedy but you need to calculate the time to put it.

[@jhoughjr1]

Makes sense. Like how its pretty damn hard to make something not funny, funny but very easy to take something funny and destroy it in the telling.

[@deadpoolchimichangas7111]

@@jhoughjr1 indeed

[@nottonyhawk123]

when I talk about what's wrong with Marvel, I always bring up how the movies devolved into senseless comedy like you said, and it's something that I refer to as the "Ragnarock Shift"

[@MrJamaigar]

They might as well add in a laughtrack for every single dumb one-liner spat out by the characters. It's when they go quiet for a couple seconds, that you know someone is about to say something stupid; and audiences are expected to roar with laughter every time. 🙄🙄🙄

[@chloemarlowe3817]

Agree 100% with this. The humor in modern MCU makes it really hard to actually connect. The biggest instance of this for me was in Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness. Around the beginning at Christine's wedding, Strange has a little chat with Dr West in which they attempt to discuss whether Strange made the right choice in Infinity War and discuss the impact of Thanos's snap and people's subsequent return after Endgame. It was actually refreshing to discuss the impact of "the blip" as it's referred to. However, the scene as presented in DSMOM is so tonally confusing that I was so confused and not actually immersed. West says "while I was gone, I lost both my cats" and Strange rolls his eyes. So... it's supposed to be a joke then? But people love their cats and would be devastated to find out that they were "blipped" and their cat passed away when they were gone. Then West adds "and I also lost my brother" and Strange gives condolances. So... it is serious then? Why have Strange roll his eyes at the loss of cats and why have West bring up the cats first suggesting the cats are more important? So, yeah very tonally confusing.

[@jakubgavenda4774]

Yes I agree with you. I heard from one person who saw Love and Thunder that people in cinema even started laughing in some serious scene so people are probably affected too not all people of course.

[@QueenOfDarknes5]

The only good joke in Thor Love and Thunder was the cancer joke to be honest. It's also how some real people behave, they joke about bad things to cope. Everythink else was just akward, they are stiff and cringe at the same time. It's Taika Waititis kind of humour but it doesn't fit characters that could talk and behave like real human beeings before.

[@user61696]

When it's star lord we are talking about, I always considered his comedy as a way to cope with everything that he has been through, covering the pains of the past with the old songs and humor. Hope for good in GOTG3

[@JoseHenrique-gs9yp]

I swear sometimes i feel like editing the MCU movies to take out all these out-of-place "jokes" and watch them again.

[@damianstarks3338]

Thanks again Alteori for your input and how the MCU is going downhill.

[@Alteori]

Yeah hopefully they will bring passion back into it

[@damianstarks3338]

@@Alteori yeah I hope so too I have stopped watching MCU content.

[@juliancar5700]

​@@Alteori Are you going to make a review on " 65" ?

[@Alteori]

@@juliancar5700 Oh def! I'm going to see it in a couple of days

[@jhoughjr1]

@@Alteori Idk how much artistic passion is compatible with how corporate everything is.

[@lukeofender2071]

One thing I've noticed while writing is that having humor in less tense/lighter parts of the story or using it to intentionally release stress can be excellent when you have an actually dark moment and the humor is absent. The MCU obviously forgot about the second part.

[@royalrexford]

In my opinion, the invisible Drax bit is probably the most egregious example of what you're talking about. We all know that Star Lord and Gamora were in love, but we never ever really got to SEE it. The one time the two of them share a romantic moment it's INSTANTLY undercut by a meaningless joke.

[@unnirajac8617]

It was not meaningless. It was a great joke. That didn’t undermine the scene.

[@WanderTheNomad]

@@unnirajac8617 Great joke, yes. Still undermined the scene. Felt less like a Star Lord and Gamora romantic moment and more like a general Guardians of the Galaxy heehee haha moment.

[@rocogo]

Don't forget Guardians of the Galaxy was directed by James Gunn. He uses comedy well in films. Look at Peacemaker and The Suicide Squad

[@ChristianFrates1997]

He had written the Dawn of the Dead remake and Scooby-Doo 1 & 2.

[@rocogo]

@@ChristianFrates1997, I didn't know he had written Dawn of the Dead. It is one of my favourite zombie films.

[@evildoughboy7773]

Exactly. It feels like the Marvel branch of the Rat think that we can't handle serious moments, yet those were some of the most powerful parts of the early stages of the MCU. Also, jokes were meant for levity of those serious situations. Now everybody's quipping like Tony Stark and it takes you out of the experience.

[@young3961]

I have an atrocious problem with procrastination, but I love to do my homework while watching your videos. You are singlehandedly helping me get straight A's 🙏

[@randomusername3873]

Thor love and Thunder be like "Isn't it hilarious that Thor lost all of his family and friends and he is deeply depressed about it?"

[@thedarkestfateful]

9:24 I’m so glad you brought up Fury’s eye patch and that cringe scene in Captain Marvel. I had my own thoughts on how Fury got the eye patch and why he is so selective with who he trusts. Now that I know what *really* happened according to MCU canon, I wish I could just unknow 😔. I expected to see that in some crack fanfiction, kinda shock they would canonize that lol.

[@jhhh888]

The sad part is that many people actually like this, and it seems like it's to late to stop. I realized this when I told someone pretty much exactly what's said in this video, and their reply was "You just explained what I like about Marvel movies. I go watch all of them for the humor, just like all of my friends who are also Marvel fans."

[@theodoro3188]

I think the strategy for the comedic moments is that it's making adults come to the movie theater with their children, there's humor that many kids don't get unlike the grown ups, humor that they'd always pay to see

[@mullaoslo]

Oh really you think? 😂Did you know that's been pixars formula for 30 years as well?😂.. There was always a balance with mcus humor vs serious moments in phase 1.. But then avengers came out and the studio noticed that people responded to joss wheadons quip punchline writing, still they let directors do their own thing.. But then Gunn expanded on that with guardians of the galaxy and the studio heads lost their god damn minds.. Since they they basicly wanted every movie to be a guardians of the galaxy.. Same tempo, same kind of jokes, same level of action and thus the mcu formula was born propper.. Thing is many directors can't pull that off and then you end up shit like ragnarok, love and thunder, ant man 2, guardians 2.. It kinda worked while they where still building towards infinity war but now it just comes off as lazy..

[@MamaMOB]

Except these aren't kids movies. The reason you're supposed to put adult humor that kids won't get into kids movies is because well Mom and Dad have to be there for the kid to be there. Who's bringing little Timmy to these movies? These are meant for him. No one wants these to be for him. That's why Disney shouldn't have bought everything. They're a kids entertainment business. Not everyone's a kid!

[@franchisefanatic4142]

It's not for kids though

[@yesmansam6686]

I mean, there's other stuff for kids to enjoy besides jokes. Kids also like action and sometimes cool visuals that instill awe and wonder.

[@eghoseisiramen1892]

@@yesmansam6686 even stories. Kids like stories

[@wullfric]

holy shit, my feelings regarding the MCU since Thor Ragnarok, perfectly explained and laid out in a way I had difficulty doing myself, thanks alteori

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

Yup, people praised it as fresh and new. But it only brought all comedy and no drama.

[@wullfric]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp yeah exactly, when in reality, it was truly nothing groundbreaking, it was a jumbled mess of corny jokes and it turned Thor into a clown. In the long run in turned every MCU movie since into a fuckin circus. Hate on it all you want, I also acknowledge it's a bad movie, but I would rather rewatch Thor Dark World than ever have to rewatch Ragnarok or Love and Thunder, at least in Dark World, Thor still acted like Thor

[@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom]

Don't agree on Ragnarok. It had drama, beneath the jokes. The humor was a mask. It's also the 1st movie when Thor didn't fall into Loki's trickery. But L&T was awful. The thing about humor as mask is that it needs subtext. L&T had none. And the thing about humor is that it needs to be funny. L&T wasn't.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom you mean the drama they never let land? I felt nothing when Odin died because they quickly moved on to the next action scene. I felt nothing when Asgard was destroyed because they quickly moved on to the next joke. Even the death of the Warriors 3 was treated like it didn't matter. Maybe instead of having drama beneath the jokes, they should've actually put it on screen for us to see.

[@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Well, I have to agree on Warriors 3. But it's just Taika's thing to deliver drama with jokes.

[@Thynqikan]

the Hulk vs Loki scene works so well because both characters stay true to themselves.

[@annie_Ieonhart]

You're so good at engaging the topic in your videos. I look forward for more contents from this channel! Love it.

[@sadlobster1]

The biggest victim of this is Thor, who went from a noble prince/god with a silver tongue to a complete Chad

[@jawarafrazer8530]

A complete clown you mean

[@prasetyodwikuncorojati2434]

@@jawarafrazer8530 the depiction really downhill. Why mythical god become dumb clown

[@VSMOKE1]

So your using Chad as an insult now how old are you

[@sadlobster1]

@@VSMOKE1 I never understood the meaning of the term before but after seeing how Thor's been behaving in the MCU, I'd say it fits him perfectly

[@sadlobster1]

@@jawarafrazer8530 Doesn't Chad also apply here

[@Madcrzy44]

Excellent video! Sums up exactly how I’ve been feeling as a diehard MCU fan. The universe is beginning to feel like a parody of the universe of the first 3 phases. And I’m also frustrated by how most marvel movies refuse to let the audience feel any sort of profound emotions watching their movies.

[@admcleo]

Im reminded of a scene from the big shot where a two investors manage to short the market at vegas and as they dance to their victory a more experienced investor yells at them. He explains that if they're right millions of people are going to lose their homes and thousands will commit suicide, eventually simply saying "Just don't dance." For a series trying to get people to believe in massive threats they should really remember not to joke about serious things.

[@NerdXZ-pn4nt]

That what i have been telling people! I honestly blame guardian of the galaxy for this problem since Disney saw it as brand standards.

[@thedestroyer2alltrolls411]

Me too.

[@hishamnct6983]

Marvel Then = Marvel Cinematic Universe Marvel Now = Saturday Night Live

[@Ch4osKing66]

I still giggle like a mad man every time I see Hulk slam Loki on the ground as if he was slapping his crusty muddy shoes against the ground to get that crap off of it.

[@ApocalypticRenegade]

MCU had a major pivot from character based comedy to just family guy style jokes for the sake of jokes. Old jokes in the MCU came from character interactions and now it feels like some asshole thought of a random dumb joke and everyone just agrees to put it in there. Makes a huge huge difference to the feel of the movies.

[@rdu239]

Great analysis, I thought I was goin nuts thinking I was the only one that notices the excessive amounts of quips and comedy in MCU films and shows. Hey, I hope you also talk about the recent fad this decade of films (specially superhero films) constantly using licensed songs in their films and shows, instead of coming up with a solid OST

[@cybertramon0012]

I remember the Justice League animated series. They had dramatic episodes, horror episodes, and comedic episodes. Their members ranged from brooding, to overly serious, to jovial, and comedic. And even with Flash (the comedy relief character) he could still be serious when he needed to. Like the time he pulled a Batman and dropped a goon off a building to make him talk. Comedy may be nice, but it shouldn’t be the only string to your bow.

[@XanderZ0ne]

I stood by my stance as MCU ended in Endgame with the only exception I watched in Phase 4 was Spider-man

[@Alondro77]

How to combine humor and action with character development in the most perfect way: "Puss in Boots: The Last Wish". That movie wins everything.

[@Miyuki2319]

I don't think the problem stems from the comedy. I think that whatever process they are using is ending up in terrible writing across the board and comedy is just extremely sensitive compared to other types of writing. Even if you took out all the comedy parts, the writing is awful, it just doesn't feel like it's giving your soul a rash.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

Nah the problem is the comedy. It’s just not the only problem, but it IS the problem. Your comment doesn’t make sense. All you’re saying is that there are other problems, not that comedy isn’t the problem.

[@lukeamparo6586]

Disney is too focused on Spectacle and Comedy that all the “drama” loses its punch. Their stories lacked sincerity, if they ever had any.

[@domidium]

The really tragic part about Disney's assimilation of Marvel Studios "infecting" it with inappropriately paced and placed humor is...they didn't used to do this. Take the Lion King for example. In the scene where Simba thinks he's MURDERED HIS FATHER...they don't crack jokes here. They knew that it was a morbidly serious moment, and not the time to be making jokes. Therefore, we remember that heart sinking scene of a little kid losing his father forever.

[@ArnoldFrost]

And it makes us appreciate the company of the naturally comedic Timon and Pumba, and setting aside said comedic nature towards the final act and moments when it was called for (e.g. Simba becoming motivated to go back to Pride Rock)

[@wajowski]

​@@ArnoldFrost Adding on to that, Timon and Pumbaa were able to notice Simba's anguish, showing that even the comic relief characters know when to dial it back.

[@DennisFutball2396]

These should be action adventure dramas that deal with life and death, good vs evil, and even the fate of the entire universe! Not comedies not children’s films. Anyone who’s ever been in an auto collision can tell you “they didn’t have time to make a corny joke.” They just tried to avoid the tragedy

[@SwesomegamerX]

i feel like wakanda forever utilized humor the best out of phase 4. it was there but spaced out and fit the scene’s context and setting and did not over stay it’s welcome

[@thedestroyer2alltrolls411]

But the movie was still poorly written though.

[@soulechelon2643]

10:23 oh god that scene. I remember thinking to myself "Am...am I supposed to laugh, or...?" Like seriously, the only way they could've made that worse is to add a laugh track afterward with Thor looking at him while wagging a finger and going "Oh, you~!" And to add: GotG 1 had some very natural-feeling comedy to it. When something funny happened, it made sense, and the actors' chemistry aided greatly in this endeavor. The group in general already had a comedic flair to them, so seeing a funny happen didn't feel like it came out of left field either. They knew when to stay serious and when to add brevity, which made that one of my all time favorite MCU movies to date. 15:57 is a very good example of knowing when to stay serious while sticking to character, and what I was thinking of when I was typing this. 13:46 I agree here too; it was funny. Freakin' love Drax. But it *completely* destroyed the emotion that was being created between Starlord and Gamora. That gag could've been put anywhere else and been equally hilarious while not ruining such a powerful moment. I also remember his interruption far more than the kiss. 16:49 This scene hit me extremely hard for multiple reasons. Absolutely unforgettable and a master class on both acting and directing. Just seeing these clips again made me tear up too. Not once in any of the MCU movies have I felt as much emotion as I did watching that scene for the first time. Hopefully GotG 3 will hit that same balance as 1 did. That trailer did look great but we'll have to see if lessons were learned.

[@barryon8706]

A place where humor works: Tony Stark's initial attempts at flight. He needs to fail at first or he comes across as Gary Stu-ish. But seeing someone fail over and over again is depressing and turns the audence off. So they made it funny, and it worked. According to a rumor I've seen, "The Marvels" is getting reshoots to make it more serious in parts because of the failure of Ant Man 3.

[@EpidemicPain]

Oh hey longer video, I will say this right now before watching These take more time and effort but they are very good and appreciated alteori

[@wildercerrate7295]

It started at age of ultron when they tried to make him into a second Loki with his antics

[@MaestroBogs]

I don't think the comedy is the bigger problem here, and i think nobody thinks it but.. is the most sensitive because misplaced jokes hurt... and hurt badly! But I think it's a symptom of all the situation. If you take a good thing like the jokes form first Iron Man and repeat alot, that good thing turns into boring. Different doesn't always mean better... like The Eternals. At the end, the only Marvel's movie that surprised me at the fase 4 was Shang-Chi. Not because is perfect or free of these problems but, i think that did the basics well done. Remember the basics, Zuko! o.Ó I think the solution is simple: a good storyteller, less repetitions and comedy are welcome as long as they are not true old. Nice video! :D

[@discman15]

"Okay writing team, what have you come up with?" "Ahem... 'that just happened'" "..."

[@ECKohns]

If the DC Universe had jokes like this, there’d probably be a scene where the Justice League meets Darkseid, and when Darkseid says his name, Aquaman would then say, “Dark Side? What kind of a name is that? Was Mr. Super Evil Pants taken?”

[@victorconway444]

I'd actually give that joke a pass. "Darkseid" is a very silly name.

[@mechanwhal6590]

There’d be a hamfisted Star Wars joke, I know it.

[@riccardoplatone]

Watching Groot saying "WE are Groot" while sacrificing himself to save his friends made me cry, it reached such a high emotional level that i rarely felt like that watching a movie. Now imagine how useless that scene would have been if someone cracked a joke in that moment. That's Phase 4 in a nutshell

[@AJsFigures]

The "humour" in the MCU is comparable to the "humour" in Ghostbusters (2016) The next generation being so condescending, sarcastic and disingenuous could perhaps be linked to the lack of serious moments sticking the landing in mainstream media and movies

[@Ruderickle2424]

Age of Ultron was the warning sign. "Too many quips" was my first thought.

[@pigglypoof]

Very true A lot of these kids are imitating this in real life, it’s not only cringe, but disrespectful. My friends brother made a stupid joke at a viewing that felt straight out of a marvel film, it wasn’t quirky and he was oblivious why no one talks to him

[@somedandy7694]

Disney saw the success of Shrek, then decided to get in on that style of humor, mocking their own success rather than sticking to their guns and playing to their strengths. Now their trope is making fun of tropes. Dear god...Disney invented the MetaTrope!

[@matthewbrasel2737]

It started with Thor Ragnarock. Rather than having a storyline with cool action scenes and then putting in jokes, they instead started with meme bait and jokes and then they added a story.

[@ashesandposies]

I agree all of Thor’s friends died as well as most his people and planet and it was just one big joke. I thought Thor 2 was a better blend of comedy and drama, while The first Thor was too Sirius, by the 3rd Thor he didn’t feel like Thor anymore with all those jokes while the last Thor movie was just stupidity at its finest.

[@thedestroyer2alltrolls411]

@@ashesandposies No, the first Thor movie had the perfect blend of humor and seriousness. The second one was a snooze fest that had terrible jokes and was just overall plain boring.

[@ashesandposies]

@@thedestroyer2alltrolls411 I was a middle schooler when the first one came out it was so boring to me compared to the other marvel movies. I like it better now. The second one I just instantly liked. The 3rd was just plain dumb, specially by that time I expected Thor to be more serious and I now liked and respected Thor for it. Only for it to take every series moment and make a joke about it, that’s just bad writing, and was not Thor.

[@InDeathWeLove]

The thing is early MCU had humour, but it was humour that made sense in universe. It was either a joke that was something a character would make or it might be a joke where a character is trying to alleviate tension during a dark moment emphasising just how bad it is that they are trying to lighten it some, but not quite succeeding meaning it actually doesn't relieve tension for the viewer. It never made the characters seem like careless assholes when they weren't meant to be. However now a lot of the humour just makes them seem like careless assholes all the time making jokes. They are jokes meant only to somehow be funny to a viewer and even then often failing at that.

[@JDWalker495]

It’s sad cause originally their comedy was really good, (especially from Tony) and they knew when to balance it out through the movies so it wouldn’t affect the serious moments. But now it just thrown around haphazardly until something sticks, plus the jokes have gotten so bland😩

[@adamisajoker]

Literally how I felt about the MCU from the very beginning. Marvel humor has infected cinema itself. The Predator, Star Wars, Willow, etc.

[@hazman5528]

MCU phases 1-3 handled comedy pretty well for the most part. Phase 4 even had some occasional content that handled it. So a lot of it “infecting” cinema is inaccurate

[@thedestroyer2alltrolls411]

From the “very beginning”? Phase 1 and Captain America: The Winter Soldier used, placed, and balanced humor very well.

[@thedestroyer2alltrolls411]

@@hazman5528 Not so much Phase 2 (excluding The Winter Soldier) and Phase 3.

[@DioTheGreatOne]

It has infected Mortal Kombat as well

[@obrians-brown1307]

Beef or Vegetarian. That scene went on longer than it should.

[@hungnguyenquang7247]

Worst humor

[@darkhart1275]

Not taking the IP history seriously was the problem.

[@peregrination3643]

Some of the best sitcoms (especially ones geared so that you can grow up on them) have powerful, real world moments, or even character arcs. Boy Meets World honed in on that a lot.

[@thedestroyer2alltrolls411]

I love BMW.

[@Baby_Bebbi_The_Fur]

8:11 Actually, it was not merely a cat, it was a Flurkan. (Sorry if I spelled that wrong!) 😂😂

[@andreaso8886]

Thank you for making this movie. I often feel alone with my opinion on the force humor of these movies (and others). It's often so cringy for me and I know too many people that don't see it. You have made an objectiv explanatory video that basically covers all my grievances. Thank you. And stay well.

[@MeowtronStar]

Captain America: The Winter Soldier was Marvel's best production till date. Funnily, it was also their most serious and mature movie.

[@StoryTeller796]

=) I've got some ideas for an animated series of criticism. 8:07 technically a Flerkin. The difference is that the Flerkin is an Alternate (Mendela County) and a Cat is a normal creature. Thor... I have no words to say what Waita Waikiki did to the franchise, but you know what? I don't think I need any.

[@medalgear654]

Not just the MCU, but most of all of Marvel since the Disney acquisition. Marvel shows and movies used to have depth and emotion now they're being too kid friendly like I feared they would after I heard Disney bought Marvel.

[@BioMatic2]

To this day my favorite scene of GoG 1 its Rocket lashing out at his own existence after a drunk fight wit Jax, there was nothing funny about that and thats why it worked. Guardians understood when to be funny and when to be serious.

[@klc7275]

This really started to bug me with Falcon and Winter Soldier. That could've been such an incredible, gritty show, even while being PG-13. But instead, they just tried to create as many memes as possible. Zemo is the greatest MCU villain imo and that show nearly ruined him. He could still come back from that, but I don't really have faith that he will. The more likely outcome is that he'll go the Loki route and become a joke. And because there are so many characters cracking jokes now, the actual comedic relief characters feel useless. Ant-Man for example. Paul Rudd is one of the most likeable people in the MCU but I'm starting to wish he wasn't there. His whole personality felt fresh in his first movie, but now it's just more of the same. Also want to add that there are way too many people who think Marvel will learn from their mistakes. Let's not forget about the whole Mandarin debacle. Not only did they not learn from that, they doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down on it, which is why Phase four looks the way that it does now. AND they brought back that hated character to be in the only Asian MCU film so far. That's just disrespectful.

[@alwaysxnever]

I think Avengers is the moment that the balance started to shift. And it just got worse and worse. The undercutting of serious and emotional moments really came to a head for me with Guardians 2. Almost every scene was undercut and it made me realize that I was done after struggling to stay invested. Winter Soldier was what helped me stick it out to Endgame.

[@jay4you853]

Some creeps wanted comedy and were saying the DCU was "too dark"...and unfortunately Marvel said OK, we hear ya!

[@blessedfatherhood]

Great breakdown and analysis. You always have such great content. Thanks for your time and passion.

[@Krystalmyth]

How did they go from Captain America: The Winter Soldier to this? That movie was incredible, one of the best superhero films ever made. Why don't they want to go back to that?

[@hoopz66]

Winter soldier was mid, civil war was really good.

[@gukeoke6312]

@@hoopz66 Mid is the last word you can use to describe Winter Soldier, that movie is beloved by the whole MCU fandom

[@hoopz66]

@@gukeoke6312 it’s good but overrated, the fights weren’t entertaining but the story was good.

[@gukeoke6312]

@@hoopz66 Well the majority would disagree with you

[@hoopz66]

@@gukeoke6312 well it’s my opinion, deal with it