Am I Lacking Technique or Strength?

[@Homelesswarrior]

I died laughing when you said Yankee Doodle grading. Now I am a ghost.

[@KipmatProductions]

Strength really is a strong key. There was a guy at my local gym who got his leg hurt so he couldn't climb, instead he worked on upper body strength (fingerboard and campus board) for what I believe was 4-6 months. He shot up 3 grades when he came back when everyone believed he would've fallen behind

[@enzobalzaretti1515]

These balcony episodes are legendary, keep them up mani jajajaja

[@emilwrisberg]

I'm currently doing 6 sets of 10 second max hangs on the Beastmaker 1k 20 mm edge with 17.5 lbs added weight. My max red point is 7a and my safe second go is 6b. I was stuck at a max red point of 6b for 2 years. Then I started hangboarding regularly in March this year, went to my local climbing crag in June and redpointed a 6c+ and two 7a's, I also onsighted a lot of 6b and 6b+'s. I have not climbed a 6c yet, simply skipped the grade :-)

[@fritzbox6764]

Often neglected in this context: mobility. When I look at the climbers I know in the gym etc., even the "good" ones, most of them lack mobility. Mobility kind of connects technique and strength, I think. Most people only think it's important to reach holds and footholds but the more mobile you are (obviously there is a limit) the more efficient you can apply your strength. Of course you could compensate a lack of mobility with strength but when you try to eliminate weaknesses of yours to climb stronger, most people would benefit more and faster by more mobility than by more pulling strength. At least that's my opinion/experience. Edit: Mani seems to have had pretty good mobility from the start of his climbing, so for him this is no issue.

[@bboyHarrypotter]

Can you define what mobility is? I've never completely understood what people mean by this. Certainly mobility includes all kinds of flexibility, right? Does it also include agility?

[@Brewsto]

@@bboyHarrypotter Flexibility is just good range of motion of muscles. Mobility means to be strong through that range of motion that your flexibility allows.

[@Carlos-cm5si]

@@bboyHarrypotter Basically is to actively move an articulation in a certain range of motion. Flexibility is to do that, but passively.

[@MrApetape]

I think to have or produce a lot of strength in the end of your range of motion is also pretty usefull, so when youre more flexibel, you can produce more power in more stretched out positions.

[@fritzbox6764]

@@bboyHarrypotter The other guys already gave right answers. Think of it this way: You always want to be in the body position so that you can apply enough force on the holds and footholds to stay on the wall or to be able to move further. Without mobility you can't reach this position and have to pull that much harder, but most of the time you can't and just fall off. You than think that you have to have more finger strength to hold on but you could also say that you have to be more mobile, to shift your weight around so that the holds become easier to hold. And most of the time normal climbers use technique like flags and hooks but still are in a suboptimal body position, because they can't push enough "into" the flag or drop knee or hook or square hips or whatever. A simple example which isn't really relevant but very easy to grasp is a bathang. Now grab the hold you are bat hanging off. You think you only need strong abs to pull your upper body close enough but really you are not mobile enough in your compression (think of L-Sit to V-Sit) and will never close the angle between your torso and legs beyond - lets say 90degrees - no matter your ab strength. Edit: Maybe you know the feeling when you know you have to move your hips (or foot or whatever) just little bit further but just can't. That often is lack of mobility.

[@nimaiplouffe7121]

I’m sure you have special challenges that your life brings you but from the viewers perspective you are living the dream life Mani. I love your videos and your scientific mind, keep on doing what you do.

[@Cloudensation]

Very well made video Mani! 👏👏

[@birtegutmayer]

Hallo Mani, vielen Dank für deinen Input zum Thema "Lack of technique or strength". Du bist auf OS und 2nd Gos eingegangen. Ich denke auch beim Rotpunkten lässt sich eine Antwort durch den Faktor Zug pro Sekunde ableiten. Ich habe die Erfahrung gemacht, dass bei überhängenden Routen eine Zuggeschwindigkeit von 1 Zug in 2 Sekunden (bzw. 0,5 Züge/Sekunde) (Weitergreifen und Klipps zählen ebenfalls als Zug) möglich ist. Auch Spitzenkletterer wie Adam Ondra kommen auf eine ähnliche Geschwindigkeit. Allerdings muss ich zugeben, dass ich mein letztes 8b+ absolutes Limit-Projekt mit 5 Sekunden pro Zug wesentlicher langsamer unterwegs war. Die senkrechte Wandkletterei ist sicherlich ein Grund dafür, aber auch ein Lack of technique, da ich fast jeden Griff nachgegriffen habe. In meiner Trainingsgruppe mit Jugendlichen wurde der Schnitt von 0,5 Züge proSekunde an der Indoorkletterwand sogar im 2nd Go erreicht. Kletterer beim Rotpunkten sollten also bevor sie die Schuld auf die mangelnde Ausdauer schieben, sich den Gesichtspunkt der Zuggeschwindigkeit anschauen. Wie du selbst sagst ist dies im OS und 2nd Go sicherlich auch interessant. Dazu habe ich allerdings keine Zahlen. Vielleicht hast du ja Lust dir deinen Schnitt bzgl. der Zuggeschwindigkeit anzuschauen. Würde mich auf jeden Fall freuen einen Beitrag von dir dazu zu hören. (Pausenpunkte nehme ich natürlich bei der Rechnung raus).

[@alexshawwest]

Great content Mani, thanks!

[@MrRinoku]

Great video, just letting you know that theres a lil typo in your thumbnail

[@franzva8636]

Your focusing too much on strength ...

[@ManitheMonkey]

I like it that way

[@Goofygreyhoundgoober]

Definitely for me, projecting experience plays a huge role in my max redpoint grade. I have climbed one 7b+ and 2 V7 boulders, but can hang for a good 5-8 seconds on the middle bm2000 rung, and make one armed progress (lost some power over lockdown lol). That said, should mean that I have awful technique, and while this may be at least partially true, it’s also a lack of experience trying hard routes, and perhaps a lack of certain finger strength types. My one arm hangs are in chisel grip, but I find my full crimp is really weak, and only after a few weeks of training it over lockdown is it getting stronger, and this is what is holding me back from my current project (a very bouldery and crimpy 8a+/maybe even 8b) which feels like it may go in the next 2 months ish. But my current max redpoint grade seems low, mostly because I haven’t tried many climbs at my limit, and am only just starting to push for it this year (only been climbing for just over 2 years)

[@juleslacoste1591]

Love that video mani! I assume I don't have that much streng for my level. I climbed one 8c route and I can't hang on middle beast maker edge ( maybe in one or 2 months) 😂. I also think that there's not only finger strength an one amer in term of pure strength.

[@TheJustinConnor]

Excellent as always!

[@hannes3422]

Beastmaker 20mm for 12 seconds with both hands without bonus weight. I guess I am your typical 6b second go climber. Max grade is 6C or very soft 6c+. Great video by the way

[@bboyHarrypotter]

Route or boulder?

[@hannes3422]

@@bboyHarrypotter Boulder. Mostly boulderbar. I rarely go have climbed on rock but have started recently. Been to the rocks now five times and my best redpoint is 6+. It is a start ;) I have even rarer climbed route indoors where my best effort was a single 6b and a couple 6a+s.

[@TheValinov]

i think the question was, how about a one-arm hang on this edge... have you ever tried this?

[@hannes3422]

@@TheValinov that would double the effort. Of course I can't hang one armed on 20mm if I can only hang 12 seconds two armed. Would be sweet though :) for one armed hangs on anything but jugs you gotta be pretty strong already. Much stronger than I am now.

[@cshanek]

Mani, thanks for the information ... great video. I have been climbing for about 18 months now, 2 times a week on average, and have run into many situations where I lacked technique and later witnessed a more polished climber perform the same climb with better movement. More recently though, especially on overhangs, I feel like I am lacking contact/finger strength so I have focused primarily on that during the COVID downtime. My takeaway from your video is that I should probably focus 60% of my training toward movement, and perhaps 40% toward strength. There are some people who will claim that those who start off with great finger and upper body strength (I am in no danger here), might be more inclined to develop bad movement/technique. My Yanky Doodle info: Safe onsite - 5.10a V3, safe second-go 5.10b V4-ish, max redpoint - 5.11a, v6. Another issue I am having is trying to close the gap between my indoor and outdoor climbing ticks/ratings. 72" 200lbs, 9% BF (I feel I would be a lot stronger at 190lbs)

[@dominicsch530]

First I would dump the idea that indoor and outdoor grades similar at all. Your gyms setters opinion may be totally different to the mean V grading of 100 persons bouldering your crags testpiece. For feeling good when climbing outdoors just go out as much as possible. At least once a week, whole year through. Then have a look at your outdoor progress, thats it. And for climbing 18 month and having below 10% bf weight is def. not whats holding you back. Getting lighter might even stall your bodys progress adapting to climbing.

[@wallah-aqua5177]

Training for climbing 3 (and probably the earlier editions as well) has a self-assessment test, where you score different questions based on how true they are. Then you look on the outcome in three different categories: mental, technique/strategy and physical. It gives at good overview of where you might be lacking. If any of you want to try it I could upload it or something. The only downside to this test I believe is that some of the attributes might be put in the wrong category. For example, for some reason they say that footwork belongs to mental, while I believe it is technique.

[@christianpunkt2887]

great video! my stats: height 183 cm, weight 72 (+/-1), outdor climbing redpoint grade 7c, second go 7a+, onsight 7a. Don't have any outdoor bouldering experience. I'm pretty sure that I could climb harder redpoints but just rarely have the opportunity to project as I live to far away form real rock at the moment so most of my sends happen on the same day ... btw I can't hold a one armed hand on a jug, so I would assume that I could improve strengthwise I:D

[@TheValinov]

you "can't hold a one armed hand on a jug" ... WTF!? can you describe this more? how can you climb then anyway?

[@christianpunkt2887]

@@TheValinov haha i meant one armed hang

[@cade6897]

I can hang 2 handed off a 1 cm edge for like 15-20 seconds max, and I've climbed 5.12c Yankee Doodle. Is this average or terrible?

[@bboyHarrypotter]

My max grade is around 5.12a, and I can hang on a 15mm edge for around 15 seconds with +55 lbs (with 2 hands, and I weigh 155 lbs). So I think you have better technique or endurance than me.

[@jordanlewis3790]

Im new to the sport so i know its both

[@ljubo16]

Started climbing in 2012, but continuous and serious climbing began mid 2013 and so far since then a managed to do almost 1200 routes, around 550 7th grades routes with my best performaces: max. RP _ 8a+ max. OS _ 7c+ max. FL _ 7c+ I can't do a one armer, neither can I hang on the middle edge on a BEASTMAKER 2000...I can't even manage a 90 deegre block on either arms. So in the words of Adam Ondra '' I'M BASICALLY WEAK '' !!! I'm pretty heavy for a climber at 75 kg, and my biggest issue are fingers. Overall and espaciliy on the OS climbing it's pretty depressing to be able to read and see all the moves on a 8a and then not be able to do them at all! With a stronger fingers a would for shure OS 8a if not 8b. HOPE it gets better somehow sometime, FAST!! ;-))) I'M NOT GONNA GIVE UP!

[@bodysmithperformance3741]

You talk about strength as if it’s a very specific thing. However, there are many different areas of your body that could be strong. Would you say finger strength is the main component to strength that holds people back? Does a climber ever need to be able to do a one arm pullup to get a certain grade or problem? Or do their fingers just have to be strong enough to do the problem?

[@kar0x]

it's strenght and tendinitis that's holding me back... I cant hang in one hand on anything but a jug. I have done several 8a boulders...

[@ljubo16]

DAMN!!! So your telling me there is a chance!! ;-))))

[@JF3T]

Thanks Mani for the video. Definitely both for me, I haven’t hangboarded at all, but mostly just climb outside working on technique and moving over rock. Stats anyways Height: 170.18 cm Weight: 58.1 kg Max redpoint grade: 6B/6B+ (V4 in American) Second try flash grade: 5 (or well, I haven’t really attempted to flash multiple 6A yet in anything less than 3 attempts), FWIW, when I go outside, I predominately go alone so I stick to the lower grades up to 6A with mostly good landings so I don’t have to hobble my way out Currently projecting 7A (probably soft and in my style), though the range goes from 6A-7A), which means it’s mostly technique on my end :) always something to work on.

[@MadsVangsgaard]

Ill be honest my technique is pretty shit and I havent done much hard climbing. My onsight is around 6a+/6b. Have redpointed 1 7b, also only tried 1 7b. Done couple 6c/6c+ and 1 7a aswell. bouldering wise im at 7a/a+ redpoint level and 6b flash grade ish. For reference Im 189 tall, and 84kg. So I guess fairly heavy for a climber. Max hang at around 32kg+ on 20mm edges last time I tried.

[@EpifanoEntertainment]

When I did my first and for now only 8a boulder (I did something like 12 sessions on it) I could hang the middle beast 2000 for 4.5" (right hand)/ 2" (left) [the discrepancy is maybe derived from the wrist cronic pain I have more than actual strenght, in a dynamometer test I did I appeared to be pretty symmetrical)

[@txelcat]

Great video! Really enjoying your content lately, together with all the live streams :) My redpoint is at 7b, and there is no way I'm holding one armed at the middle edge of the BM. My usual onsight/flash grades are actually quite close to RP too. But nothing new here, as I cannot even lockoff my arm at 90deg (on a pull-up bar) for one second. So I guess I need to invest more time on strength... For what's worth, I'm 1.82m and weight 60-61kg --quite light for my height; so in that aspect I have an edge on endurance. What would you say is the cutoff grade for 90deg one arm lockoffs on a pull-up bar? Thanks!

[@camilleo2817]

txelcat I also redpoint 7bs, but quite short ones, power-endurancy. I can one arm pull-up, one arm pull up, and can’t hang on the middle beastmaker edge. However I’m not really far from it. I guess you have a good technique and lack strength, the opposite of me.

[@therint.9306]

I have also no chance for a onearmer or hanging onehanded on the beastmaker edge, i can do around 9 pullups and hang on a bar for around 2:40, my rpgrade is 7b+ and onsightgrade 7a+, so i think im lacking more strength than technique, also im 179 cm and 74 kg

[@hatefulmonday]

Guess I have more of a mental issue then... I'm 178cm, 70 kg, I can lock off without problem on a bar, not quite there yet with the middle egde but slowly getting there... I climb 7b onsight, 7b max RP 7b boulder.... Guess I'm just weird hahahaha

[@txelcat]

​@@hatefulmonday I think the point Mani was making is to look at what you can onsight 90% of the times. If you have both 90%-of-the-times-onsight and max RP at the same grade, it sounds like you should try routes more than once.

[@txelcat]

@@camilleo2817 I wouldn't say you lack technique --I think you are well balanced! Maybe what you say about short routes is an indication of lack of long-route endurance? I guess there are too many parameters to really pinpoint everything!

[@Xeno87]

If you can't do a one arm hang on a 20mm edge, it's a good idea to go for strength.

[@TuvofLuv]

Magic as always Mani 👌. I hereby name you MagicMani. My usual onsight is 7a with a second go at 7b. My max redpoint is 8a (20 goes) with a handful of 7c+ to back it up (average 10 to 15 goes). So it's quite a spread from 7a to 8a. Based on your theory, what would this suggest?

[@ManitheMonkey]

Like everybody you could use more strength. Also, Sounds like you need more experience around the 7c grade (pyramid). Technique wise i d focus on speed, and finding perfect beta quicker, and execution. But Hard to judge with so little info :)

[@TuvofLuv]

@@ManitheMonkey I'd agree with that 99% so thank you for taking the time to reply 👍

[@RedSkyLB]

Mild jealousy at 8:28 😔 Me too bro

[@MrPILI86]

How deep is the middle edge of the BM? Asking , as I am not using BM.

[@matthieukrull311]

BM 2000 middle edge is about 20-22mm

[@KarlJean_B]

Mine is about 23mm

[@austindonisan]

I'm a bit unclear about your definition of "safe 2nd go". Is this 2nd go assuming you tried to onsight and failed? Or when you intend to send 2d go and your 1st go is all about beta-finding? When I think "2nd go" it's the latter. And in that case my "safe 2nd go" isn't a grade I think I had a realistic chance at onsighting for most styles. I think if it is then you have poor tactics when intentionally climbing 2nd go.

[@SandBorn789]

hello Mani , here are my "stats" : height : 1m83, weight : 65 kg, hape index 190 cm (+7). bouldering grade : 7b. Lead grade : 7b+, Onsight 7a+, second go : 7b. So I suppose my technique is ok? I guess I have to work on endurance and power endurance sins I can boulder consistently at 7b but can't climb harder than 7b+ lead ? I feel like the fact that I have a big hape index plays a big roll in endurance because of the extra levrage I have to deel with. what do you think ?

[@elfriederich]

Congratulations for having great genetics.. 183cm and 65kg is impressive. I'm 181cm and 73kg. I'm having almost the same grades except red point 7c. I also have bad endurance and power endurance, pretty boring to work on :) also when it comes to overhanging routes I feel like I need better core strength.

[@ManitheMonkey]

Grats to the epic morphometrics. Yeah, technique seems to be good for your current lvl. I d try more projecting to push your lead Max, and get more exp in higher grades, which is where you belong. With that Kind of boulder Power you should crush 8a quite solidly.

[@TheValinov]

183cm, 65kg seems rediculous omg!? do you miss a leg or something? :D 190cm, 83kg here, damn, even with 73 i would fly up walls...

[@KarlJean_B]

Hello Mani, here are my "stats" : height : 1m82, morning weight : 76 kg, ape index 187 cm (+5). At the moment i'm training on the BM 2000 and i'm at the end of my fingerstrength cycle (1 week left to go) Here are my best numbers from morning sesh: (Rules: 5s hang count as an ok hang on the middle edge BM 2000 -> 23mm in my case) _Right Hand: +9kg (+85kg in total - 111%BW) for 8s _Left Hand: +9kg (+85kg in total - 111%BW) for 5s And before training cycle, here was my max grade: _Bouldering grade : Unknow (maybe something aroud 8A/V11) _Lead grade : 8b+ (In february), Onsight 7c, second go : 7c+ (i guess). So what do you think about it folks ? Hope it will help some of you ;) Can't wait to get back outdoor and test this crazy strength on new projects !

[@ManitheMonkey]

Strong bro, i think you could try 8c with this kind of strength. Your safe 2nd go should also move up to 8a imo. Also nice morphometrics. Have fun crushing!

[@KarlJean_B]

​@@ManitheMonkey Hey Mani, thanks for the encouragement! The point is that, from my home, the closest 8c project is "Nikita" (Berdorf) and I don't really know if this kind of strength, transfers well when it comes to a specific strength of the fingers like the crux of this route which is around 8A/V11 based on a mono. -> kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKmYd6JngtmCmKM What do you think about that? I mean how to deal with this ? One way or another, be sure i'm gonna give it a go and maybe (who knows ;) ), record the ascent when the lockdown will end !

[@bboyHarrypotter]

@@KarlJean_B What were your max-hang numbers before you began your training cycle? And how long were you training?

[@ChrisHaileyTrainHardDiveEasy]

From now on Mani you don't need to refer to "American grading" Just "Yankee Doodle grading" is great and we know what you mean haha, great content dude, this is a good insight into my own climbing, processing this now and working out if I need more strength or technique 😃

[@mikawelter5463]

damn i have no strength at all...

[@josephyoung7564]

7a is 5.11d

[@hustler764]

Hast einen Fehler im thumbnail:)

[@KipmatProductions]

Liked just for yanked doodle American grading

[@noamoz3968]

Second comment