AMD RDNA / Navi Arch Deep-Dive: Waves & Cache, Ft. David Kanter

Technical analyst David Kanter joins us to talk about AMD's RDNA architecture vs. GCN, debuting in RX Navi GPUs. We talk Vega, GCN, RDNA, and Navi.
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AMD's Navi GPUs will be the first to launch with the new RDNA gaming architecture, and it is a new architecture. RDNA has changed versus GCN, the architecture used in Vega and preceding cards, and some of those changes can be highlighted in Wave32/64 and in cache bandwidth. Our two topics today revolve around these aspects of RDNA, with other discussion in between.
Find David Kanter here: www.realworldt... or here: mlperf.org/
Our video with David talking about what a core really is: • Why CUDA "Cores" Aren'...
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Host: Steve Burke
Guest: David Kanter
Video: Keegan Gallick, Josh Svoboda
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[@GamersNexus]

Last video with bad focus -- sorry! We realized it after shooting this one. Find our video with Gordon of PC World here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnipqIKJerWNqZY Find David Kanter here: www.realworldtech.com/ or here: mlperf.org/ Our previous "What is A Core?" video with David: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rl6xZ6Ogd8esj5I

[@ADR69]

Nice interview. This guy seems like he knows his stuff but relays it in a clear and digestible manor. Cool he was willing to do this, I found it helpful.

[@jscb7003]

any idea when youre gonna make the big CPU air coolers test? its been a while since you talked about it

[@anna8bit852]

On mobile looks ok

[@JuxZeil]

Great overview both of you, and a special thanks to Mr Kanter for the extra insight(and excitement for the next 4 years in the silicon tech space). Any chance you could get him to find out more on the Infinity Fabric 2's behavioral characteristics/qualities and limitations please? That's the tech that really has me excited, and I'm sure that AMD aren't going to stop at improved audio solutions. Maybe affordable truly scalable multi-die GFX solutions for us gaming nerds? ^__^

[@jondillinger899]

Hi Steve so i have a question for you. So i recently got in to overclocking and as i am overclocking my cpu witch happens to be an 8700k. And my temps where really high at 5.0 GHz often in 100s c with prime95 torture test. And in cina bench i was thermal throttling so after about 2 mouths of watching deliding video tutorials. I decided to get the rocket 88 for 1151 and some liquid metal and i used loctite gel control to re seal the IHS. Lets say my experience was not so good as the original glue did not wanna come off and i was having difficulties applying the liquid metal. Having to wipe and reapply i also used acrylic conformal coating for the pcb over the pins. So once i got it all done back in my pc and sure enough ddr4 boot loop. I begin trying to figure out what exactly went wrong taking stick out putting them back. And in doing so discovered that ddr4 slots 2 and 4 are not working correctly. Every time i put a stick in DDR4 slot 2 or 4 the pc gose memory boot loop. DDR4 Slots 1 & 3 are working just fine. So im thinking i May have damaged the memory controller on the cpu die somehow. My question is there something i can maybe do to reverse this or will i have to get another cpu. Any help would be appreciated very much thankyou. Ps im a big fan of you channel. And even though im having the issue with the ddr4. The deliding did work extremely well as i now sit in the lower 70s in prime95 under stress test. my test results are as followed before deliding Base line at stock 34 C at idle 94 c under 100% load in prime95 Cinebench stock speed all cores 84 c. Now overclocked to 5.0 GHz at 1.368V multicore enhancement off ram OC Profile disabled Prime95 100 C under 100% load thermal throttling cinebench all cores 95 C that is my baseline After deliding prime95 stock 55 C under 100% Load Cinebench all cores 51 C overclocked same 5.0 Ghz at 1.368V Prime95 72 C under 100% load cinebench all cores 68 C that is my results from deliding but anyway i just wanted to share that even though my experience was not the best the results almost blow me away

[@MattinmGaming]

This was absolutely fantastic. You can tell that David is an engineer, because he's succinct and doesn't try to tie in a bunch of marketing buzzwords and spin. He's fully willing to acknowledge past failings (even ones GN pointed out) without acting personally attacked or trying to downplay them. I wish more people in the industry had this kind of candor.

[@thecoolestkyle]

I'm not sure why he would feel attacked. He doesn't work for AMD, he works for MLPerf, and as a tech writer. But I agree that his presentation is great and very informative.

[@doublecrossedswine112]

Finally a meaningful video about Navi. This is what makes Gamers Nexus the best.

[@Skewel]

So, should an average consumer consider buying Navi? Just asking, because I'm not a technical person.

[@Arjun-eb1yc]

@@Skewel wait for reviews

[@doublecrossedswine112]

@@Skewel Me either. It's definitely aimed at mainstream consumers. I think the features are very nice and won't show up in benchmarks since they focus on FPS. For the XT version, personally, I'd wait to pick one up for 350$ or less, not sure I'd pay 400$. Still, it depends on what you are wanting, Navi is overkill for people wanting to play games at 1080p.

[@doublecrossedswine112]

In addition to the interesting stuff in this video there is also Radeon Image Sharpening, Contrast Adaptive Sharpening and also Display Stream Compression, all of which will not show up in the benchmarks. And also anti-Lag. So the image will be superior and a benchmark won't show that. So it's a lot to figure out but the features need to be accounted for and not just a FPS benchmark, which are looking like they soundly beat the rtx 2070 anyway. Hope Gamers Nexus does some more deep dives into Navi.

[@Icybubba]

​@@Skewel If you're wanting to buy a brand new Vega 64 or 2060 it's worth going a little extra for the 5700. It's also worth noting that the 5600 series (5600 and 5600 XT) will launch after Polaris and Vega sell out. Also, Navi 20 was running behind schedule, that's why they launched the Radeon VII, to get a presence in the high end market while they work out the kinks in Navi 20. You can expect an announcement for Navi 20 around December, with the 5600 and 5600 XT launching by November. Navi 20 will likely be 3-4 GPU's, 5800, 5800 XT, 5900, and maybe 5900 XT. 5800 will be better than a 2080, 5800 XT will be somewhere in between the 5800 and 2080ti, 5900 will compete with a 2080ti, and a 5900 XT will compete with a 2080ti Super. RDNA is also likely going to age extremely well, which is why I say it'd be worth going for a 5700 instead of Vega 64 or 2060. Hope this helps

[@dongurudebro4579]

Great and relative simple explanation, please do more with David - he is awesome! :)

[@TheEnd]

Don Guru de Bro he’s been on before and is always this knowledgeable on architecture

[@dongurudebro4579]

@@TheEnd Thats why i wrote "more"! ;-)

[@1967KID]

Guru is old school I started building computers in 1997 and guru was up we use to get some quake 2 mods for voodoo gpus.

[@1967KID]

Can't wait to see next generation of AMD gpus. Rdna is going to rock.

[@radicalxedward8047]

Don Guru de Bro if this was simple I _really_ need to do more homework on this stuff.

[@SuperMari026]

Was waiting for an analysis like this! Thanks Tech Jesus!

[@johnpaulyates1655]

SuperMari026 “Tech Jesus”!! I love it!!

[@davidjohansson1416]

I love this style of video and content! PLEASE I CRAVE MORE!

[@MarioCRO]

Wow, extremely technical and interesting, props to you Steve and David for this vid.

[@robertkincannon5325]

Top tier content once again Steve. We can get opinions and comments about tech all over Utube, GN brings knowledge.

[@DemonizedTX]

Heck yeah! David Kanter has some SERIOUS knowledge on architectures, love seeing him.

[@summushieremiasclarkson4700]

David Kanter is a legend

[@d2ricci]

Maybe AMD next hire? :P

[@jaredgarbo3679]

@@d2ricci He works at AMD

[@Skabbe1]

No he doesn't, he's at MLPerf. He's consulted at AMD previously though, but he's done that at pretty much all their competitors as well, such as Intel, Nvidia and Qualcomm.

[@bepis2679]

Yeah, Imma need David and Wendell in a video together.

[@rars0n]

I love David's technical talks, he does a great job of providing insight into how these things work in a way that is very easy to understand. Thanks Steve, and thanks David!

[@quintonquill]

This takes a lot of the mystery out of the NAVI architecture thank you Steve.

[@WatchingFromHeaven]

I like how AMD showing off their unreleased RDNA in all its naked glory

[@phillipBappleton]

The last video with David Kanter is the one that got me into your channel, these are some of the best discussions available anywhere on these topics. Thanks for the great content.

[@xXxCobraCommanderxXx]

This is the kind of grownup content I'm subbed for. Thanks!

[@laurelsporter]

Wow, Mr. Kanter looks about like I expected him to 😂. Cool that you got to talk to him, and much respect for his no-nonsense work breaking these things down to brass tacks, over the years.

[@georgeivanov844]

Great in-depth analysis, explained also as good. Kept me hooked for the whole video.

[@randallcromer66]

I love the channel it's one of the best KZbin channel's on technology and information on everything happening in the industry. I appreciate all your insight and opinion and for all your time and effort in keeping us updated. So please keep up the great job and I will keep coming back for more and sharing your video's with as many people as I possibly can.

[@michallacki9462]

This video should be called "GPU architecture for dummies " absolutely fantastic, I could follow every step. Thank you ! P.S we love David

[@drayzen9678]

Thanks for making content like this. Great to be able to get a clear understanding of the key points and what they actually mean, which is often hard to find in deep-dive tech articles which tend to get bogged down in the details and forget about discussing the practical side.. 👍

[@sr6550]

Ok, we need more videos with David. That guy is excellent at explaining stuff.

[@srntener]

It's not often I need things dumbed down, but the complexity of computer engineering and core archetectures definitely qualifies. This was an excellent video which explained the basic changes to the gpu archetecture in a manageable way; even if the video is still loaded with complex issues I know I barely comprehend based on my background. Thank you for the quality work and for increasing the accessibility of advanced concepts.

[@ptose]

these videos with David Kanter are great.

[@seanli7493]

I love how nice and crisp the picture and the pot plants are in the background, great work cameraman!

[@leogrievous]

Well I like how stable the the cameraman holds the camera, almost looks like a tripod. But srsly Steve probably set the camera up himself and set the focus accordingly, you can't simultaneously stand in front of the camera to be a subject and be behind it to focus on said subject.

[@squatmufu6117]

Or, you just read the line of text on the video at the start that apologises for Auto-Focus shifting the focus to the back of the image.

[@seanli7493]

It's a joke, I know that it's a fixed camera and there's nobody behind it, and that it's not his fault as there's not much he can really do about it.

[@TheArakan94]

More of David Kanter!!! Please.

[@aplacefaraway]

I really appreciate david kanter's candor

[@LordDecapo]

This type of content is my crack. Please do more

[@LordDecapo]

@@blitzwing1 oh yes, i would love to see more videos diving into things such as thread scheduling and coherency mechanisms..

[@exe16]

If the consoles and Navi will have the same architecture, is it safe to assume that games made with focus on consoles (say, Assassin's Creed) will have their PC ports performing better on Navi cards?

[@kurtisrinker1202]

You would think so but I think that is highly unlikely. Consoles have a closed ecosystem so the code can be far better optimized for them.

[@CaveyMoth]

You still have to worry about the PC operating system and graphics rendering APIs. =\ They would have to release some sort of special "console API" that handles the game code exactly the same way as it is handled on consoles.

[@ObsoleteVodka]

The real issue is lazy developers, they even half-ass things that have nothing to do with compatibility. Like nonsensical keybinds (sometimes not even customizable) or UIs/HUDs with HUGE icons and text meant for big screens being looked at from 3 to 4 meters away.

[@PainterVierax]

@@ObsoleteVodka I'm not even sure if all of those decisions are in the hand of development teams, those might be more related to producers/publishers who cut costs and time lines.

[@Aggrofool]

Most developers will use DX12 or similar APIs, so performance will depend on vendor drivers

[@hazonku]

Always a pleasure when David is on to break it down Barney and Friends style for the masses.

[@rufian2630]

David is great, thorough explanations without losing me or boring me (both relatively easy to do. lol)

[@nabilnahal7802]

David's interviews & analysis is most interesting for me thanks gamer nexus

[@ravenschadeify]

PLease something similar for Zen 2/Ryzen 3000 if and when possible.

[@ZRubidium]

This Dave guy is really great at breaking down what everything is and how it applies, I'm glad GN does these video's with him.

[@wiggetywut32]

Thanks for the video. That's hitting the nail on the head right there. The way I've come to understand it, and reinforced by this segment. Navi can reach 100% utilization on smaller workloads than GCN (1 or 2 clocks vs 4 clocks), which is why it is technically more efficient running games with only a thread or two. Conversely, this is what makes GCN so much better at Premiere work than Navi, because at 100% utilization it handles this larger workload much better with say 4 or 6 threads. Correct me if I'm wrong of course. Edit: I'm not sure 'threads' is the appropriate term when dealing with gpu so... grain of salt.

[@SmartBombs007]

In the first 3 minutes of this video something I thought of was actually brought to light. If Navi is scalable why not couple it with an existing architecture like gcn to make coding for the new architecture to be a smooth transition. Great vid!

[@HardOCPTV]

I learned years ago that when you are around David, shut up and listen, and ask questions. :)

[@DavidPruitt]

Those dedicated issue units and dedicated scalar units are gonna much a huge difference. Add in the single cycle execution per wave, maybe we got something here.

[@koldfizzion3762]

Super awesome excellent video. You guys should pick that guys brain more often. Great video. Thanks

[@ktcool4660]

I am always happy to hear what David has to say.

[@ruiamaral4669]

Great information, exposed in a "simple" way for the general public. Thank you.

[@ADR69]

A skillshare ad. There are those that said this day would never come. What are they to say now...

[@themonroe654hd6]

ADR How can I skip it?

[@michelvanbriemen3459]

@@themonroe654hd6 I could share that skill

[@aiGeis]

I went to the site out of curiosity and searched for "Real Estate" All of the lessons I was seeing, from a periphery, were garbage. Pass.

[@jdns14]

Just to say, would love to see more videos of David and architecture discussion (though I understand that the number of videos would be small) xD

[@Mat-ss8uw]

Would love to see a follow up for RDNA 3.

[@KingHalbatorix]

JUST WAIT FOR N- *WAIT, IT'S HERE? FINALLY*

[@cs_mns]

best navi video by far! :) cant wait to see it reviewed

[@thehumangerm]

Congrats on 600K Subs.

[@Qyngali]

Steve, what's the ROP count for Navi? Nice piece as usual. :)

[@BreakingDimes]

Qyngali u can see on their website

[@veilmontTV]

Congrats on 600k subscribers

[@blackmennewstyle]

I see you guys apologizing quite a lot with that autofocus lol You don't need it actually since your subject(s) is/are always at the same distance from the lens, just use manual focus, just make sure subject(s) is/are properly focused each time before shooting. Even subject(s) is/are moving some few centimeters away from original location, it should be always fine :) Have a great weekend and keep it up the great job

[@noxious89123]

Great video, thanks! :)

[@WickedRibbon]

Informative and insightful analysis 👍🤓

[@morenoise8086]

Dying to know about the background picture that is bugging the cam. Who is it and what is he holding?

[@74_Green]

glass of whisky and a cig

[@soraaoixxthebluesky]

Is this the CISC-to-RISC version of GPU? Like how the modern x86 break the CISC instruction into RISC instruction in their micro-ops unit. So they have the benefit of keeping the resource low on a resource hungry program and at the same time increase the IPC to a RISC level architecture in expense of having to use an extra energy (Wattage)

[@FadNad0731]

Love this type of content, thank you!

[@CaveyMoth]

Mmm..another Gamers Nexus interview with a beautifully sharp background.

[@nakedhand]

It´s a deliberate style at this point. Very 2029

[@CaveyMoth]

@@nakedhand It's quite edgy...seeing the edge of the set.

[@StatusQuo209]

It's great to see AMD confident again. They are the true innovators.

[@vedanta90]

Would be great to listen to his views on the ryzen 4000 series chips ....

[@TheEnd]

When you see dad (Steve from GN) in the PC World livestream

[@Premosilva]

😂 😂 😂 😂 😎

[@DrearierSpider1]

I really wanna see a livestream with GN Steve, HUB Steve, Gordon, and Wendell.

[@machinainc5812]

Awesome insight. Love hearing about architectures

[@bigraceglen]

I think AMD is going to have a dual Navi. This would be a optimum best scenario. I think you would put the 2080 and it's place.

[@flagovhate]

I know very little of what was being discussed, but still very informative :)

[@morbid1.]

great t-shirt for this

[@crismeman3386]

It's obvious now that the first iteration of RDNA was created for SONY's PS5 mainly for "Backwards Compatility" on playstation older games yet AMD still manage to compete with NVIDIA's current mid tier GPU's, with this regard it is safe to say the next launch of full pledge RDNA can now go toe to toe with NVIDIA.

[@TheNewTimeNetwork]

6:38 - I would argue that one core is more closely resembled by one SIMD unit than a CU. If you only have one wavefront (64-wide vector program, now "Wave64"), only one of the four 16-wide SIMD units in a GCN CU will be occupied for 4 cycles per instruction. RDNA changes that, in that a 64-wide wavefront will now occupy one of two 32-wide SIMD units for two cycles per instruction. The overall vector execution capacity of the CU is the same, but the full potential can be exploited with just two instead of four wavefronts. There is also a new execution mode called "Wave32", where a 32-wide wavefront will occupy one of the two 32-wide SIMD units for just one cycle per instruction.

[@dougler500]

Wow, that's fascinating. Fucking complicated, but that's what makes it so intriguing.

[@dougler500]

Also, Navi seems great.

[@lionoh]

2 months free of skillshare,damn! Thanx Bois!

[@74_Green]

hahaha

[@JoeRichardRules]

I had to watch this twice.

[@ADR69]

...yeaaaah /Cut to graphic/ Haha love it

[@mutantmagnet]

Is it fair to interpret this to also mean that Vega will be around for a long time. What I mean is that usually I see architecture changes as a way to replace previous architecture but Navi sounds so functionally different from Vega it sounds like they serve entirely different purposes which maybe why Vega was so lackluster in the previous tech cycle. If so, do you think approach going forward help AMD earn more revenue in the long run for better research and development?

[@randalldraco3822]

Great interview. The issue i see is simple - will the developer take advantage of it? AMD has a great position to push - consoles/mobiles where nvidia is nonexistent, so they have a chance. But it will be hard.

[@timothyandrewnielsen]

Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty… I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.

[@chrisbreaktherules]

Love your videos :)

[@jikman681]

3 questions: about the wave thing 1. Is the 64wave the same as on vega? So does that mean a 64wave code isnt faster on the rdna wave? 2. Can you make a whole code in only 32waves without having any drawbacks to code in 64waves? 3. Would a code completely written in 32waves be 4 times faster than on 64waves?

[@Fetrovsky]

Where can I see the presentation?

[@TheCgOrion]

It would be nice if Nvidia came up with something like Radeon Chill. This was a really needed video to get out there for the community.

[@kokosnh1170]

you need to FOCUS :D

[@thematrixredpill]

For gods sake, give me more of this!

[@samghost13]

What a cool Dude! Excellent! Thank you Sir

[@ADR69]

Hey I remember this dude

[@murphy_boy]

To those 13 dislikes, why are you here? Go watch your E3 cinematic game trailer.

[@Rocky-bz8wr]

Great video thank you. My biggest question is this. Now that they will be focused on this RDNA when they release new drivers for games and performance updates will AMD be forgetting about GCN based cards and totally focus on the newer RDNA cards. I only ask is because I just bought a Vega card and it would be bad if it did not see much of any performance enhancements for the new game titles because the main focus for updates shifted to the RDNA card instead. We have been lucky over the years so far because of the fact that AMD has been GCN for such a long time that pretty much every GCN based card gets the performance tweaks whether it is a newly released card or one from a few years ago. If this RDNA is what they say and is a new tech not using any of the GCN what is gonna happen to the GCN cards. I expect or at least expected to have support for my GCN based Vega for at least 3-4 years yet since Vega itself has not been out all that long. I ask because in the past AMD has been known to drop the older tech when a new tech comes out about 1-1.5 years after the new tech gets released and the older tech goes into extended support ot as I call it Life support and the drivers stop happening and then the games newly released tend not to work well. Actual release of Vega was 21 months ago.

[@mahmutpekkara]

TL:DW, NAVI is a big game change since gcn (polaris, vega) and may really compete against nvidia but its because new, there is still room for optimisations. So if you can wait, you should buy the after NAVI gpus..

[@tobishardwareecke]

More Like that. Its very interesting stuff 👍

[@kevin-jm3qb]

More videos like this prease

[@godsgiftto3arth]

I feel I understand a little better how this works

[@DarkPa1adin]

I had a dream 2 nights ago that I was seated beside GN Steve and other tech youtuber. And Steve has his hair reborned... I was like Steve what happened to you? Then I woke up realising it was a dream lol...

[@macman90]

Focus on auto? It isn't the first time the focus is not good. Pretty please, fix this=) Thank you for the content:*

[@TheEntireUniverse]

Do these changes negatively impact general compute performance?

[@Rockovissi]

AMD’s website recommends a 600 watt PSU for the RX5700. It’s only 30 watt TDP more than my aging RX480. What do you think the chances are I can run the 5700 off of a 500 watt PSU?

[@destroyah3034]

It all depends on what the rest of your system is and the age of the psu. If the psu is a couple of years old already, then I would try to invest in a newer 80+ bronze+ psu if you are upgrading.

[@DarkPa1adin]

I wonder if buildzoid could contribute to the discussion or not...

[@Hidyman]

Actually, I like the non-focus. Just replace the photo with relevant information that matches the dialog.

[@Nicolas-zo6rg]

With architectures so close to ps5, hopefully an emulator can be released within 5 years. Would love to play exclusives on PC.

[@jasongooden917]

Steve: NAVI Paul: NARVEY Who knows what I’m talking about?

[@combatantezoteric2965]

Jason Gooden my narwhal brother! Too bad he has no titcum and narveey anymore :’(

[@joetavener2523]

Don't forget Fredripper

[@protator]

Love these videos with Gordon or David. Both often pause looking for the best way to phrase things, but for very different reasons I think^^. I'd love to see Gordon throw political correctnes out the window ... or David Kanters unfiltered geek speak.

[@B4rr4cudk4]

really nice vid

[@GHostCCM]

Amazing piece of technology, learn Nvidia and Intel LEARN

[@mandoreforger6999]

Great content. Maybe do these sitting at a desk...you two standing there looked a little awkward.

[@MaxPower-zp7wy]

Anyone know where to get a Titan V under £2000 ? It's still the most powerful gpu ever made. Over 5000 cuda cores, over 600 tensor cores, over 3.000 bit memory interface and stupid high memory bandwidth. Steve. Titan V vs RTX 2080 Ti or RTX Titan would be a good benchmark shoot out for 2019.

[@thepcenthusiastchannel2300]

This is my kind of video.

[@angryxinch8812]

Have a feeling Navi is gonna be a huge letdown, but ryzen is gonna kick ass, for a while at least. Hope it forces a price war

[@predabot__6778]

For first gen Navi, maybe, but second gen / refresh? Definitively gonna' kick ass - all that Samsung-money is sure to have an impact on development-budget.

[@angryxinch8812]

Hopefully so, cause as it stands now its just 20-50$ more for an equivalent with rtx and a solid heatsink and fans. Just dont see that as being compelling at all