American Eagle Lugers

Many people are aware of the .45 caliber Lugers made for US military field trials - but far fewer people realize that Lugers were both tested by the US military and sold commercially several years prior to the .45 tests.
In 1900, the US military put several hundred 7.65mm Luger pistols into field trials with both infantry and cavalry units. These pistols were marked with a large and elaborate American eagle crest, in an attempt by DWM to enhance the gun's appeal to Americans. A similar tactic was used in production of Lugers for Swiss sale, with a large Swiss cross (and it worked well).
After complaints about the small caliber of the early 1900 Lugers, DWM developed the 9mm Parabellum cartridge, and attempted to sell them commercially in the US (and elsewhere). A small batch were also purchased for further military testing.
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[@535tony]

I have a WW1 War Trophy 1918 Erfurt Luger.This is such an interesting gun. The Toggle action is very unique.Every time I shoot it at a range it gathers a crowd because it is such an Iconic Firearm. The grip is perfect on this Pistol, it points like an extension of your hand. Yes, the 1911 is superior, but the Luger has a mystique all it's own.

[@davidparker5068]

+535tony I'll come to the defense of the Luger... In the U.S. trials shortly after 1900, there really was not an appreciable difference between the 1911 and the Luger. Old school army guys were hooked on the idea of 'stopping power" of larger calibers, and this prejudice worked against DWM's submissions. Both pistols had advantages and disadvantages. The U.S. and Switzerland kept these pistols, respectively, for about 70 years as their standard side-arms.

[@douro20]

My grandfather and great-grandfather were machinists at Rock Island Arsenal.

[@richcampoverde]

Love this channel you always give a nice bit of history of the gun and a demmo and/or detailed look- breakdown keep up the good work sir

[@thelaborpeasant]

Thats really really cool actually. Very neat to have Lugers with American ties like that. Reminds me of the Remington built Mosin Nagants haha. Its so cool when you have firearms that are so ingrained in another country's culture that also have some kind of American tie like that

[@johnwizeman3894]

Could you imagine what handgun development would have been like if the US Army had adopted the Luger? (Mind Blown)

[@spartanalex9006]

There would be a lot less looting of German pistols in both World Wars.

[@douro20]

I always thought of DWM pistols as being very beautifully manufactured, and this is why good examples can command such high prices.

[@Tricerius]

Am I the only one who noticed the grip safety on those?

[@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017]

+Tanker'schreck That is weird. How long was that in place, or was it only for the American market?

[@davidparker5068]

+Myanameis Beestingz The grip safety was standard production for the M1900 to the 1906 model, as was the 7.65 mm "pencil taper" X 4 5/8" (120 mm) barrel.

[@rorygibbons3310]

+Tanker'schreck they where standard on all the early guns and where a standard on the Swiss Contract, nothing unsual they where simply all early Lugers he was showing.

[@warriorson7979]

One of the most beautiful pistols ever made...🥰😌

[@rogerdier6813]

Back I the 60's I had a collection of 18-19 Luger's...I had some treasures that like every precious rare gem, you don't know what you got till it's gone...no other pistol has the mystique of a mint 1900 Swiss Luger with a 3-digit serial number (and all the correct early features)...a commercial 9m/m 1902, a Simson &co, A mint G-S/42 with an early DWM FINISH! and white metal interior (!!!),. ..but I traded them away for aThompson M 28, and a (apparently mint, unfired) m1, or m1a1 thompson., MP 40 (two of them), MP 44 Sturmgewehr..etc..a fool and his gold...

[@Fersomling]

I love guns! I feel kinda sorry for people who are afraid of them.

[@cosaqueexiste9647]

Just respect them... In Spain we can't have guns and... There is no market and the movies/notices.etc makes people afraid of them and hate all about guns and USA gun laws

[@gcart7675]

cosa que existe you could have if you didnt go by the corrupt government like you should

[@ch1gga22]

g cart wasn’t his choice mein Bruder

[@WHO9119]

If I was rich I know where most of my money would go, Lugers are one of my favorite guns the other 1911 hands down favorite.

[@grayswandir47]

That's the Great Seal of the United States. Compare that to the seal on the back of a dollar bill. Under US Law today it isn't allowed to be used commercially. Back when Michael Krause (Krausewerk) was a regular at SF Bay Area gunshows he had at least one of these for sale.

[@paulfabrique5055]

Very nice pieces.

[@georgegonzalez-rivas3787]

You need to add a footnote on the Mitchell American Eagle Luger that was available in the 90's (I have one)

[@TheRomanRuler]

Would it still be useful today? Many give up M1911 due to having too small magazines, but this one is 9mm so maybe it would be useful?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Lugers still shoot just fine today, although they only have 8-round magazines.

[@NormanMatchem]

Forgotten Weapons I was under the impression that they were unreliable.

[@Sven-Olof]

NormanMatchem P08 lugers are like ar 15´s, if you take care of it, it will be reliable. lubrication and cleaning, very accurate, really nice shooting, reliable if taken care of and lovely in every way

[@NormanMatchem]

Olle Jansson I'm afraid I don't buy that; while I prefer AKs, I still acknowledge that AR15s can be fairly reliable, though not to the degree of said Russian design. The M1911A1 is also very rugged, as are designs like the P226, Glock, TT33, Hi Power, etc. The P08 Luger though, many of the vids I've seen of that pistol have footage of jams as well. If I were to try a 2-gun match some day and were offered a P08, I'd be happy to try it at a range, but I wouldn't want to rely on it if speed was needed, meaning hangups would cause a lower score. I'm curious as to what Ian's opinion on the matter would be; he has far more experience with the design than I do. Of course to compare it to an M1911 or variant would be unfair, so I think the first thing he'd think of is "I'd rather stick with my Molina". If that option wasn't available though, and he had to choose between a P08 and, say, a Type 14 Nambu, C96 (that annoying reload), Steyr 1912, or that blow-forward Komura, I think there's a lot of reasons to choose one of the other mentioned designs. Perhaps not the Komura though, considering you have to bring your hand near the end of the barrel while handling live ammo. Might be interesting to try the P08 in a 2-gun match for kicks, but for points, I think a design with a better track record in reliability would be preferred.

[@NormanMatchem]

Olle Jansson I'm afraid I don't buy that; while I prefer AKs, I still acknowledge that AR15s can be fairly reliable, though not to the degree of said Russian design. The M1911A1 is also very rugged, as are designs like the P226, Glock, TT33, Hi Power, etc. The P08 Luger though, many of the vids I've seen of that pistol have footage of jams as well. If I were to try a 2-gun match some day and were offered a P08, I'd be happy to try it at a range, but I wouldn't want to rely on it if speed was needed, meaning hangups would cause a lower score. I'm curious as to what Ian's opinion on the matter would be; he has far more experience with the design than I do. Of course to compare it to an M1911 or variant would be unfair, so I think the first thing he'd think of is "I'd rather stick with my Molina". If that option wasn't available though, and he had to choose between a P08 and, say, a Type 14 Nambu, C96 (that annoying reload), Steyr 1912, or that blow-forward Komura, I think there's a lot of reasons to choose one of the other mentioned designs. Perhaps not the Komura though, considering you have to bring your hand near the end of the barrel while handling live ammo. Might be interesting to try the P08 in a 2-gun match for kicks, but for points, I think a design with a better track record in reliability would be preferred.

[@edge4006]

Very nice Luger.

[@mmercier0921]

Always interesting.

[@SpaceCowboyfromNJ]

I have a German WWI Luger that some one replaced the original barrel with what I can only assume is a custom built one converting it to .30 Luger (at least I have never seen a similar looking barrel) Do you happen to know if there was a period of time after WWI were .30 Luger was about as if not more popular then 9mm? I'd love to be able to narrow down the point that it may have been converted, since I would assume such a conversion would be done if ammo was pretty commonly available, otherwise it would be like converting an AK-47 to 7.62x45.

[@norwegianwiking]

reading old gun magazines here in Norway, for bullseye-style competition .30 Luger seems to have had quite a following at least up to the 70s, seen references to conversions of guns like the Sig P210 to .30 Luger. Seeing as the 9mm is only a necked-up .30 luger, all thats needed really is a barrel change.

[@SpaceCowboyfromNJ]

norwegianwiking Converting a Luger for competition use seems weird to me, but I will say that mine is extremely accurate so it is very plausible that it was set up for competition.

[@jhenry0615]

The 30 Luger cal was very popular up until the development of the 9mm and retained a staunch following even after. See my post above about the DWM Luger/Stoeger association. Stoeger sold Lugers in both cals and had optional bbl lengths (up to carbine length) available on new Lugers or as bbls only. I would hazard a guess that your Luger was converted, perhaps, because that was the only bbl available to the owner or gunsmith who did the work. Without more info, it is impossible to say when the work was done.

[@1guyin10]

Yes they still make 30 Luger ammo. I just bought some for a High Power. As I understand it there were police forces in Europe that were still specifying that round up into the 80's, which is why Browning was still offering High Powers so chambered.

[@Gostwriterindisguise]

Also, in some countries it is illegal for civilians to own handguns in military calibers but non-military chamberings are allowed. Thus 7.65 Luger as an alternative to 9mm Luger. Walther used to make a 7.65 P38 that was said to be quite popular in Italy.

[@33Luger]

I own a Browning, a Finnish issued Luger, and a Sig P210 in 30 Luger. My favorite pistol round.

[@kenhelmers2603]

Cool guns, thanks Ian

[@troy9477]

Nice to hear the full history on these. Is it my imagination, or does the .30 have a slightly longer barrel? It may be an optical illusion since it is a thinner profile tapered barrel. Great video as always. Thank you

[@Sc0ttzi]

Most examples of 30 cal Lugers (1900, 1906, and nearly all Swiss Lugers) have a 120mm or 4 3/4 inch barrel. Some are slightly longer, and some are slightly shorter, nearly all are a slim 'pencil' profile. Very few are 4" or 6" with the standard 9mm profile. These were generally built from surplus German military parts for commercial sales after WW1.

[@peterrogers6896]

I owned three of them at one time. Many years ago.

[@sedacicek1915]

when did you sale it and how much price?

[@robertbilicki6274]

@@sedacicek1915 Almost twenty years ago. I believe I sold them for $1500.00 a piece

[@sedacicek1915]

@@robertbilicki6274 so what do you thing about its price today

[@interstellarlapisthecccp4946]

I really like the earlier guns which have the gold tinge on things like the trigger, safety and takedown lever. I don't know why they stopped doing that because the Lugers from the 30's and 40's are all monotone black and imo not as nice as the older ones.

[@techedeligre]

for a second there, I thought you were speaking of the .22 american eagle lugers and having those as a RIA auction just felt silly for some reason

[@helghastelite]

When I saw 'American Eagle,' first thing I thought was, "That clothing company made copies of the Luger?!"

[@Ishikabibble]

Sadly American Eagle doesn't date that far back, but you can find Lugers marked as Abercrombie and Fitch. They used to be a big upmarket store, and had a pretty wide range of fine hunting guns and guns for sport. There's a pretty famous Hemingway quote where in extolling the virtues of the Colt Woodsman, he urges the reader to "...drop around to Abercrombie and Fitch and buy himself a .22 caliber Colt automatic pistol, Woodsman model, with a five-inch barrel and a box of shells."

[@rileytuber]

Ishikabibble damn, i guess some of these companies used to have cool ideas back then

[@jhenry0615]

Ishikabibble You are right about A&F originally being an outdoor sporting goods store but it was one of their competitors across town in NYC, A.F. Stoeger, who was the importer of Lugers. In fact, Stoeger received a patent for the "Luger" name sometime in the 1920's. They imported genuine Lugers up until WWII. Stoeger also was a general outdoors sporting goods retailer with a storefront in NYC and also offering a very comprehensive mail order business, selling everything from camping equipment to fine double bbl shotguns. It was this catalog that became known as "The Shooters Bible" which is still published to this very day although, like the company, only a shell of its former self. I used to work for Stoeger while working my way through high school and college. Stoeger is now owned by Benelli which in turn is owned by Beretta. As far as I know, Stoeger still owns the rights to the Luger name in this country (USA).

[@davidparker5068]

+jhenry0615 I'd go farther about these stores. They were world-renowned as "outfitters", where you could go to buy everything necessary for your safari! in light of this, the final fate A&F experienced was aesthetically kind of sad and yucky.

[@Tripp426]

I was thinking the ammo brand produced by Federal.

[@rainbow2710]

Maybe I missed a detail, but do all Amercan Eagle Lugers feature the grip safety?

[@MarikHavair]

It's a common feature on early Lugers, standard from M1900 to 1906 as I understand it.

[@colinfinnell3622]

pis there any exampls of the 45 Lugers anywhere? i've read about them but ever seen a picture or exampls in any book or internet page i've read, or in any museun i've been to for that matter

[@colinfinnell3622]

*is

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yes, there are a few out there. They are replicas (and sold as replicas), made by a very talented guy who splits original frames down the middle and widens them to fit .45. Very high dollar items.

[@parabellum_arms]

You can actually see a .45 Luger copy being shot here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/homTfHSuj9x5d5o

[@woodi101]

Keep the videos coming! :)

[@michaellongshanks7884]

Did anyone notice the left handed holster? Is that normal? Am I not seeing this right?

[@michaelborden4388]

Am lucky we have one of these.

[@Jesses001]

I never got into Luger collecting either, mostly because I know I could never afford it. Just one slightly rare Luger will cost in the 4 digits with ease. I do have a nice Mosin Nagant collection though, ha.

[@MrGidyup]

Beautiful! The want for that is strong. or a commercially available 45 Luger......... I can dream can't I :) Great vid as usual.

[@davidparker5068]

+Jonathan Gallup Just gather about 15 grand together and Mike Krauss will sell you a brand new one in .45 ACP!

[@spitfire792]

Man I would have loved if he was an expert on the Pawn stars :D

[@davidparker5068]

+Arul Moondra I visited the Pawn Stars shop last summer. It is a nasty dump, small and dirty, with mostly crappy jewelry for sale. The show is shot on a set. The items are cherry-picked from what is probably a mountain of everyday junk they may see. RIAC's presenter must have a lot of general knowledge, but I wouldn't say he is necessarily an expert about the Parabellum pistol. He informs us pretty well, but drops the ball on a couple of finer points.

[@sedacicek1915]

I have the same one, it is in our family for 100 years.I want to sale it, could you please help me?

[@curtl6906]

Are you based in the US Seda?

[@rohailkhan1196]

This is awesome

[@AnimalStomper]

Cant decide which is prettier, the Luger or the C96.

[@ZGryphon]

Huh. I just noticed that seems to be a left-handed holster. Being a lefty myself, it took me a moment to realize it was unusual. I always assumed that the way they handled left-handed personnel in the early-20th-century US Army was to beat them right-handed in Basic.

[@crashandburnbirner]

pretty true lol

[@davidparker5068]

+crashandburnbirner Yes, weird. Holsters made at the Rock Island Armory back then. I believe it had something to do with roots in the cavalry, which tested most of the original shipment of pistols submitted for trials and evaluations.

[@chapiit08]

Yes, the handgun was supposed to be wielded with the left hand and the right hand would be holding the reins or be occupied with the saber while on horseback. Basic US cavalry doctrine from the mid 19th Century still alive in the early 1900's.

[@Sc0ttzi]

True, this looks like a normal left hand holster. And it is supposed to be drawn with the left hand. However these are worn on the right side, butt forward. The US Cavalry's "cavalry draw" was always a cross draw with the left hand.

[@nam6128]

In ww2 nazi officers preferred the P.08 over the more modern walthers for their style and prestige. Until the magnum revolver the P.08 was the worlds strongest handgun being one of the first to adopt 9mm cartridges

[@McFlingleson]

I've never noticed this before, but Ian has very nice hands.

[@jayburton6723]

McFlingleson gay

[@TheBuffaloSamurai]

Is the holster a left handed one? Was that common or rare?

[@RedXlV]

TheBuffaloSamurai That was standard. At the turn of the century, a cavalryman was still expected to fight with a saber in his right hand.

[@DonMeaker]

+RedXlV The reins were in the left hand for cavalry. The pistol was used at a distance, the saber was known to be obsolete by the time the Luger was invented. A key finding of the US Civil War was that a large caliber revolver was superior to either lance or saber in both range and effect.

[@RedXlV]

DonMeaker But like with so many other things, doctrine was slow to catch up with the advance of technology.

[@DonMeaker]

RedXlV GS Patton Jr was still trying to design a saber just before WWI. Of course in Mexico he had an opportunity to shoot one of Pancho Villa's generals with his revolver, and brought back the corpse to General Pershing on the hood of his touring car. No saber nonsense there.

[@notsomoto284]

Wait people still make lugers?

[@adrienperie6119]

The heavy barrel 9mm one almost looks like the 1 million Luger in 45.

[@Dagstyrr]

They are going to go for a pretty penny...wow

[@dominic0147]

left holster lol nice!

[@31boudu]

where is luger in 45 ACP? :)

[@33Luger]

I think less than five exist.

[@shawnkeefe2055]

Left handed holster?

[@norwegianwiking]

1900-ish was still the era of swords and lances for cavalry and infantry officers. Pistol is for the left hand, sword goes in the right.

[@33Luger]

Very cool holster. I have a replica US marked C-96 holster.

[@33Luger]

Or cross draw?

[@volkult73]

Switzerland had the 7.65!

[@lmomechtech7709]

I have to ask you since you are doing this series on the RIA auction, do you have or can you access a remote mic as you are soft spoken with camera at a distance. It is fine when you bring the camera in. For more consistency and better understanding of the information you are putting forth. Like the vids and all the kool 'stuff' you bring to the shooting world.

[@TheMiseriaCantare]

3:00 Why up there is a Star of David?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Those are 13 stars representing the original 13 colonies. A six-pointed star is simply how one can symmetrically arrange 13 points.

[@joegreen5714]

Must not be American? Or too young to have money? Never looked at the back of a dollar bill? Google it; its a national symbol here in the US.

[@papilloneffect4015]

lol "Star of David", wtf? That's not a star of david...

[@joshuabanner8542]

I held that exact gun, the guy i know who bought it spent $10,000 and it was in pristine shape

[@TheRealPlato]

i was hoping to learn about the action and the grip safety

[@davidparker5068]

+The Real Plato Get some books and start readin'! This guy isn't too bad, but he's had to leave out a lot. Join up or lurk at Lugerforum.com or Jan Still's forum on Gunboards and you will encounter more info than you could imagine.

[@TheRealPlato]

I actually found a free game on steam called World of Guns and disassembled a 3d model of the p08. It also animates the action in slo mo and cutaway

[@davidparker5068]

That's a good start. I do not believe there is any other pistol action like it, except its predecessor, the Borchardt (C93). Concept "borrowed" from the Maxim machine gun... Now all you need is a P.08!

[@MAGNUMICAable]

whats that David's star on it?

[@Redmenace96]

I have been watchin Ian for years. Trials guns? The U.S. never adopts foreign designs/manufacture? Why do they bother? What are the success stories?

[@unclepaco161]

Redmenace96 krag?

[@AnimalStomper]

You could really use a cinematographer.

[@AnimalStomper]

Not to say your camera work is bad. Not at all.

[@HammockerSam]

Those are beautiful guns

[@lanceacosta3823]

I clicked on this thinking, "vintage'ish? gonna watch Gun Jesus' take after this. sure enough the son of a gun appeared behind the table after the marquee ... its a miracle, praise the lawd hallelujah|"

[@tkgus2408]

You didn't show the operation of the pistol.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

I'll do a shooting/disassembly/operation video on the Luger later, when I'm not at an auction house.

[@N238E]

They make Polo shirts now?

[@DrRichtoffen1]

I have a very rare stainless steel model :)

[@vassal11]

Ian, Your channel is great... but you maintain this pace?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Nope. Today is the last of this batch of Rock Island videos, and then I will go back to my regular schedule (which is one regular video, one slow motion, and one InRange per week).

[@1leggeddog]

Forgotten Weapons You were on a hell of a roll with those RIA videos :)

[@fleshgordon]

Forgotten Weapons I've really enjoyed this videos from RIA

[@biggeorge191]

Eagle is told to be piece of s**t?

[@herauthon]

American Lugers . . what happend to this world?? i read wiki : .45 ACP (very rare) - so, those 45cal does exist, too ?

[@jackandersen1262]

herauthon four there were only 2 made for US trials. One was lost, the other is in private hands. In effect, they exist but you will never see one outside of images. Lugerman does make .45 reproductions however.

[@fenianbhoy100]

Die Luger ist eine Deutsche Pistole. Ich verstehe nicht, warum die Amerikaner das design kopiert. Es ist Deutsch so lassen Sie es, die Art und Weise :-)

[@herauthon]

Tiocfaidh Arla there are copy-cats and copy-dogs

[@phil180700]

Die Luger war bekannt jeder wusste dass sie deutsch war

[@Artificial-Insanity]

+Tiocfaidh Arla Sie haben sie nicht kopiert sondern importiert.

[@fenianbhoy100]

Ich dachte, dass sie ihnen in Amerika hergestellt, unter Verwendung des ursprünglichen Designs der deutsche Rennrodlerin

[@DonMeaker]

+Tiocfaidh Arla Aber Luger was an American. So actually it was the Germans who produced an American design (Germans in adopting it, copied the Swiss who adopted it first).

[@จิรวัฒน์เพ็ชรกล้า-ฒ7ฦ]

ขายไหม

[@joegreen5714]

Cool they have grip safeties.

[@ScreamingSturmovik]

wow i really don't like the "fat barrel" it completely messes up the elegance of one of the sexiest pistols ever made imo

[@MrBioniclefan1]

Man I wish I had the money and at the right age to bid for one of these or both of them

[@ricktimmons458]

use a microphone!

[@superdog1964]

With all due respect Rick, he is. It isn't stuck to his face though, I didn't have an issue understanding or hearing any parts of the narration he provided, What kind of problem did you have? It could quite possibly be an issue with the volume level on the device you are using to watch the video?

[@raunovittaniemi843]

Alla gör kopior på allt... Människor funkar så.......

[@jamesmccord8895]

Too bad this beautiful pistol review turned into so much anger and fear. I still like the pistol. Take everyone as an individual, and life may be more rewarding for all God's children.

[@davidparker5068]

+James McCord True, but in perspective, the Luger was the standard Nazi side-arm for only 5 years--and this is a verysmall portion of its 100 year history. Guilt by association? Don't let the "bad apples" spoil the pistol!

[@vassal11]

Why does it have a jew star above the eagle?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

That is part of the Great Seal of the US. It is 13 stars representing the original 13 colonies, and the symmetrical way to arrange 13 items is a 6-pointed star. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States

[@vassal11]

It is oddly amazing I have never taken note of that before...

[@mitchhale1479]

It is called a Star of David. Not trying to be a dick, just a really, really big cultural point there.

[@vassal11]

jew star

[@mitchhale1479]

+vassal11 I apologize to the rest of the world for your ignorance.