American Reacts The Firebombing of Dresden: War Crime or Justified Military Necessity?

[@danielkaufmann15]

What the narrator didn't mention. The City of Dresden was full of refugees from Prussia, the Red Army gained more and more of the German Prussia, the people fled to the west, and Dresden was one of the most important Train stations from east to west. 😮

[@jarlnils435]

Official numbers say 25000 dead. But that only counts citizens of Dresden. Nobody knows the casualties of the refugees. But it is estimated by the allies that there are as much as 300.000 dead.

[@jarlnils435]

And my comment was deleted. Just because I wrote d**d and k***d in the comment section of a war video...

[@oopsdidItypethatoutloud]

​@jarlnils435 The 250000 came from a book. The author admitted that he made it up. The SS report counted upto 12,000 dead, which is horrific enough. The author wanted to make his book more dramatic, so he doubled the number to 25,000 and later decided to add a zero...add a bloody zero 😮 I can't remember who it was, but the book came out in the 50s or 60s. I watched the documentary with him, and wondering how he could do such a thing. He admitted that he had the SS and local reports, and had done it purely to sell more books. As though 12,000 in one raid isn't diabolical enough.

[@jan-peterbrodersen3302]

The official number directly stated after the bombing was at least 200.000. The figure of 25.000 was stated only recently and is certainly wrong. The 200.000 figure was stated by the head of the police Colonel Grosse in the daily order number 47 23. May 1945. Tagesbefehl Nr.47 vom 23. März 1945 des Befehlshabers der Ordnungspolizei von Dresden, Oberst Grosse: Bis zum 2. 3. 45 abends wurden 202.040 Tote, überwiegend Frauen und Kinder, geborgen. Es ist damit zu rechnen, daß die Zahl auf 250.000 Tote ansteigen wird. Von den Toten konnten nur annähernd 30 Prozent identifiziert werden. Für den Befehlshaber der Ordnungspolizei Der Chef des Stabes Grosse Oberst der Schutzpolizei.“

[@B0R0M1R]

Hey bin auch aus Rheinland-Pfalz haha^^

[@ibnenkigalileo9256]

The Americans are used to war crimes. Dresden but also Le Havre and Caen in France. The use of napalm in the Vietnam war, Hiroshima and Nagasaki and so on and so forth. Being on the ‘right side’ is no justification for horrors and mass murders

[@ruas4721]

There is a simple fact that makes the bombing of Dresden a terrible warcrime. There was no need to bomb the whole city, bombers were accurate enought to hit strategic targets. The bombing was intentionaly made to destroy the whole city, not the industrial complexes. The germans at this point had no way to defend against such a massive air attack, it would have been super easy to pick important tagets. Also you can disable the industry with normal bombs too (first wave of bombs in Dresden), fire bombing exists only for terror and total destruction, an unneeded act of violence with a small gain for an already successful operation for the costs of thousands of lifes. Same for the firebombing and the atomic bombs in Japan, the "reason" of destroying the industry and important infrastructure could have been achieved in other ways, but breaking the enemy with excessive violence is sadly a tactic that works. But justifying this acts of terror is just completle garbage. The most terrible thing is that the head behind the plans for the destruction of Dresden got a honor monument ... a fucking war criminal.

[@michachodkowski8499]

Same with Berlin - it COULD be taken by red army without milions of casualties (just by encircling) but no - Koniev and Zukov lost MORE THEN MILLION soldiers (and totaly destroyed city), killed thousands of civilians only becouse Stalins wish... And that was terrible war crime too. PS. ALLIES wont start war - Adolf. H. and Jozef S. Z did it in 1939!!!

[@rosshughes7977]

level bombing wasn't accurate at all also trying to claim war crimes during what was a total war is ridiculous the majority of people whether civilian or not were part of the military industrial complex that sadly makes them military targets, the bombings of city's in ww2 are sad and dark days of the human race but they were not war crimes

[@markschattefor6997]

Who is the real war criminal, those who started the war or those who brought it to an end?

[@ninamoores]

Were you around then.! People get desperate when things drag on and relentlessly on. It had to be brought to an end . Nasty things happen in wars .You can’t moan about the bombing ofDresden and not moan about Stalingrad orCoventry or Hiroshima or the Warsaw Ghetto.

[@SpielkindFR]

@@rosshughes7977 the deliberate targeting of civilian populations is a war crime and the allies did deliberately target civilian populations during the bombing campaign against both germany and japan. To be fair, the germans where the first ones to resort to this type of terror bombing, first in guernica during the spanish civil war and later in britain and eastern europe. The axis had to be stopped by any means necessary and even with the knowledge in hindsight that terror bombing like this is comparatively ineffectual to degrade the determination of a populace to continue a war there is an argument to be made that justifies the decision to resort to these kinds of tactics. But that does not change the fact that it did and does constitute a war crime. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[@johnnyringo80]

Dresden was not the most destructive bombing raid; numerous cities, Braunschweig, Kassel, Darmstadt, Magdeburg, Heilbronn, Würzburg and Pforzheim to name a few, suffered a similar or worse fate than Dresden. Pforzheim in particular is often named as the most destroyed city and the one with the highest loss of life due to a single bombing raid (nearly 20% of its inhabitants were killed), but since it was smaller than Dresden, the overall number of deaths was smaller. Yet more people were killed in the Hamburg firebombing than in Dresden. It was more of a coincidence that Dresden became the most famous bombing, because the city was widely known for its beauty and of course because one famous eyewitness later wrote a best-selling novel about it (Kurt Vonnegut, "Slaughterhouse 5"). But at the time it happened, Dresden was pretty much "business as usual" for the RAF bomber command. The raid on Pforzheim happened only 10 days after Dresden, and Würzburg was reduced to rubble roughly one month later (and only a few weeks before Allied ground forces eventually captured the city). 24:50 here you are mistaken: setting the whole thing on fire was the primary goal all along in the bombing campaign. The first wave already dropped firebombs on the shattered city and the second wave arrived at a city already ablaze. This was a backup for when the initial attack was off target or hadn't reached its goal of starting a firestorm, but since this wasn't the case in Dresden, the second and third attack then switched to bombing secondary targets (setting even more of the city on fire). The second attack wave was also designed to disrupt firefighting and rescue operations and force the survivors back into air raid shelters - to let the firestorm do its work.

[@tomtom34b]

More people died in the firebombing of Tokyo with conventional weapons. It even surpasses Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.

[@SpielkindFR]

@@tomtom34b I mean, Tokyo at that time was basically build from wood and paper.

[@tomtom34b]

@@SpielkindFR That´s correct.

[@philomenaa1939]

The fire storm was planned to do horror to civilians. There were more than 300 thousand victims. The bodies were burnt in big fires of approximately 100 over weeks 25 thausend victims was a lie as a favour to the 🇺🇸 and 🇬🇧 Nobody should charge the good guys with war crimes.

[@B0R0M1R]

The Dresden bombing is so infamous because its a very historic and artsy city that had no militaric significance. They also made a very high quality mini series called "Dresden" in Germany.

[@terrylandess6072]

Next you can look into 'why' they dropped the second Nuke on Japan. I don't think the Japanese cared at all about the US's desire to teach the Soviets a lesson.

[@alex-ff1mp]

How many nukes are dropped after the peace was signed?

[@The_real_Arovor]

@@alex-ff1mpTwo. The Japanese were already willing to capitulate to the Russians.

[@davidmarkwort9711]

Hamburg was destroyed before Dresden, as was Hannover, Frankfurt, Berlin and many other beautiful cities over 1500 years of cultural history wiped out in fire bombings. Most places were never rebuilt, and no, my mother never did forgive the Allies

[@piotrcieplucha4405]

Did she forgive her fellow Germans for brigging so much destruction and death to the world?

[@davidmarkwort9711]

@ she lost her cousins, uncles and aunties to the concentration camp, does that answer your stupid question?

[@Zinfandel92]

@@piotrcieplucha4405 No, of course not. At least not back then. Do not underestimate the power of propaganda. Old Adolf made it to the propaganda master class. If you are fed by decades with lies, you will believe at eventually, at least part of it. And when you get your cities bombed (almost the whole country was bombed to the ground, city-wise, and not only industrial complexes and train stations) you do not have any doubts.

[@danielkaufmann15]

@@davidmarkwort9711 to be honest, the question from Piotre wasn't stupid. I'm a German, we we should never forget that we started the fire. That makes a war crime frome the allies not undone. Don't get me wrong please.

[@davidmarkwort9711]

@ As if it makes any difference 80 years later, my family was never the same, that happened before the war began, my mum was around 7 years old when they „vanished „. She was proud of her heritage, as I am, Opa was a broken man, but he never forgot, he was a fugitive in his own land, all because of the Regime. I got to know him as a humorous person with a hang to sarcasm, I loved him. My roots are firmly here, but I can’t stand the discussion about the holocaust, it happened, but we, after 45, kids had nothing to do with that and we should never forget, but I feel no guilt about it, why should I? And as for the bombings, pure murder, plain and simple. They bombed cities, not military zones, cities! Don’t come with Coventry or the Blitz. What the Allies did was premeditated murder on a massive scale. Neither my mum or I can ever forgive the Allies for what they did.

[@melchiorvonsternberg844]

The bad thing is that there was actually no strategic need to destroy Dresden during the war. Especially not when the Red Army had already reached the Oder river and crossed it in the south. And American and Empire troops were already on the Rhine. But there was another strategic consideration, which is reflected in a memo from the British MI6 in the summer of 1944. In this analysis of the situation, the Soviet Union was clearly identified as a future enemy. Based on this recommendation, the strategic bombing war of the Western Allies was modified as inconspicuously as possible so that it would inflict maximum damage on the future (probable) sphere of power of Joseph Stalin. The first target was Königsberg, the capital of East Prussia, which was destroyed in August 1944, violating Swedish neutrality. The attacks could be very well disguised as support for the Soviet advance. In fact, these attacks often hindered the Soviets more than they helped them. And the biggest chunk, which remained largely untouched, was Dresden. It is very funny that the apparently clueless Simon W. cites an explanation for the attack, an explanation from another British secret service. One crow doesn't peck out another's eyes, right...? The source for my statements can be found in "If Hitler had won the war", from 1989. Author: Ralph Giordano, German-Jewish Holocaust survivor with Italian roots (1923-2014). As for the number of victims... No one in their right mind believes Goebbels' nonsense for a second. Nevertheless, the number of victims was extrapolated to 90,000. I myself consider this number to be significantly exaggerated. It was most likely less than half of the 90,000 mentioned. The most likely number is somewhere between 35,000 and 40,000. But that is still significantly more than our British friends would like us to believe. The city was full of refugees who wanted to escape the crimes of the advancing Soviets in the East... In light of these facts, the attack on Dresden suddenly makes sense again, doesn't it?

[@frankmoeder8998]

Sir Winston Churchill, ehem. Britischer Premierminister "Dieser Krieg ist ein englischer Krieg, und sein Ziel ist die Vernichtung Deutschlands." (Am 3.9.1939, dem Tag der britischen Kriegserklärung) "Wir haben sechs oder sieben Millionen Deutsche umgebracht. Möglicherweise werden wir eine weitere Million oder so töten, bevor der Krieg zu Ende ist." (1945) "Wir hätten, wenn wir gewollt hätten, ohne einen Schuß zu tun, verhindern können, daß der Krieg ausbrach, aber wir wollten nicht." (1945) "Das unverzeihliche Verbrechen Deutschlands vor dem Zweiten Weltkrieg war der Versuch, seine Wirtschaftskraft aus dem Welthandelssystem herauszulösen und ein eigenes Austauschsystem zu schaffen, bei dem die Weltfinanz nicht mitverdienen konnte" (In seinen "Erinnerungen) "Dieser Krieg wäre nie ausgebrochen, wenn wir nicht unter dem Druck der Amerikaner und neumodischer Gedankengänge die Habsburger aus Österreich-Ungarn und die Hohenzollern aus Deutschland vertrieben hätten. Indem wir in diesen Ländern ein Vakuum schufen, gaben wir dem Ungeheuer Hitler die Möglichkeit, aus der Tiefe der Gosse zum leeren Thron zu kriechen" Winston Churchill 1925 „Vielleicht wird es sich im nächsten Krieg darum handeln, Frauen und Kinder oder die Zivilbevölkerung überhaupt zu töten. Und die Siegesgöttin wird sich zuletzt voll Entsetzen mit dem vermählen, der dies im gewaltigsten Ausmaß zu organisieren versteht“ Winston Churchill 1936 Wenn wir die Industrie zerstören, bauen die Menschen sie wieder auf, also müssen wir die Menschen vernichten. Aus der Churchill- Biographie 1935 begann die englische Aufrüstung in einem außergewöhnlichen Ausmaß. Die Strategie Englands war, nicht die Front, sondern das Hinterland um die Zivilbevölkerung zu bombardieren, Frauen und Kinder so lange zu vernichten, bis Deutschland gezwungen sein würde, zu kapitulieren. Ehemaliger Generalsekretär des englischen Luftfahrtministerium Spaigth in seinem Buch „Bombing Vindicated“ (rechtfertigen): „Wir begannen Ziele in Deutschland zu bombardieren, ehe die Deutschen das in England taten, das ist eine historische Tatsache, die auch öffentlich zugegeben worden ist“ 1936 erklärte Churchill dem amerikanischen General Wood: „Deutschland wird zu stark und wir müssen es zerschlagen“ Churchill 1936: „Wir werden Hitler den Krieg aufzwingen, ob er will oder nicht.“ Winston Churchill - Rundfunkansprache an das englische Volk 1939: „Dieser Krieg ist ein englischer Krieg, und sein Ziel ist die Vernichtung Deutschlands“ Am 15.12.1944 erklärte Winston Churchill in einer Parlamentsdebatte des Unterhauses: „Die nach unserem Ermessen befriedigendste und dauerhafteste Methode ist die Vertreibung. Sie wird die Vermischung von Bevölkerungen abschaffen, die zu endlosen Schwierigkeiten führt. Man wird reinen Tisch machen. Mich beunruhigen diese großen Umsiedlungen nicht, die unter modernen Verhältnissen besser als je zuvor durchgeführt werden können“ Winston Churchill am 7.02.1945 - Jalta Konferenz: „Es ist uns gelungen, sechs Millionen zu töten, und es wird uns vielleicht gelingen, noch eine Million umzubringen, bevor der Krieg aus ist“ Winston Churchill erklärte 1945 in Potsdam, dass er zu jeder Zeit mit Hitler hätte Frieden schließen können. Winston Churchill in seinen Memoiren „Das unverzeihliche Verbrechen Deutschlands vor dem Zweiten Weltkrieg war der Versuch, seine Wirtschaftskraft aus dem Welthandelssystem herauszulösen und ein eigenes Austauschsystem zu schaffen, bei dem die Weltfinanz nicht mehr mitverdienen kann“ Winston Churchill in seinen Memoiren: „Achtzig Millionen Deutsche, tüchtig, ehrgeizig und voller Erfindungskraft, sind eine Gefahr für uns. Denn sie sind in der Lage, uns wirtschaftlich einzuholen und damit unseren Reichtum zu vernichten.“ Zitat - Winston Churchill: „Im Jahre 1939 erklärten wir Deutschland den Krieg, nicht weil wir angegriffen wurden, sondern freiwillig. Wir waren das einzige Volk, außer den Franzosen, das in den Krieg eintrat, ohne angegriffen worden zu sein. Wir wussten, dass unsere Lebensinteressen und die der Nazisten niemals zusammen bestehen könnten. Einer von uns beiden muss vernichtet werden“ Auszüge aus dem Buch von Churchill von 1947 Seite 21: Marschall Ferdinand Foch (zum Vertrag von Versailles): „Das ist kein Friede. Das ist ein Waffenstillstand für zwanzig Jahre“ Seite 23: Die Zerschlagung von Österreich - Ungarn war ein Fehler Seite 25: Eine Monarchie wäre nach 1918 für Deutschland besser gewesen, als die vom Volk größtenteils abgelehnte Weimarer Republik. „Dazu kamen gewaltige Kräfte in Bewegung; der leere Raum lag offen, und in diese Leere trat nach einer Pause ein Wahnsinniger von dämonischer Wildheit, das Gefäß und der Ausdruck der wildesten Hassgefühle, die jemals die menschliche Brust zerfressen haben - der Gefreite Hitler“ Seite 30: „Der Faschismus war der Schatten oder das ungeratene Kind des Kommunismuses…. Wie der Faschismus eine Folge des Kommunismuses war, so entwickelte sich der Nationalismus aus dem Faschismus“ Seite 56: Die englische Regierung schaffte entgegen ihren Erklärungen den Goldstandart ab. Seite 59: „Es eröffneten sich Luftwege, auf denen Tod und Schrecken weit hinter die eigentlichen Frontlinien getragen werden konnten, so dass auch Frauen, Kinder, Greise und Kranke, die in früheren Kriegen natürlicherweise verschont blieben, davon erfasst wurden.“ Danke an Herrn Hari Baumann für die Übermittlung von Churchills Aussagen. 1913: Im Februar lässt der Erste Lord der Admiralität, Marineminister Winston Churchill der Cunardlinie wissen, dass sich die Stunde der Bewährung nähere, den „der Krieg gegen Deutschland ist sicher - spätestens im September 1914 wird er ausbrechen„. (Janusz Piekalkiewicz „Der Erste Weltkrieg“, Econ Verlag 1998, Seite 272).

[@Lubikit]

Hot air rises, that's what draws in relatively cooler air at the base of the fire. Large fires create their own weather systems, firestorns, pyrocumulus clouds and fire tornados

[@u.z.9383]

This is just one tragedy among so many, that occurred during WW2. When I hear, that the Americans "romanticise" WW2, I wish they would be reminded that, although being on the right side, their weapons too have created horrific scenes and caused many deaths. Did you know that most of the time when I choose a German topic on KZbin (e.g. Rammstein-videos), a Schindler's list Video is "smuggled in" lest we never forget...?

[@Roz-y2d]

I haven’t been able to answer your last question because my reply was removed.🤷

[@Cio_d-borba]

I doubt alot of Americans know about their warcrimes and shortcomings. From their own concentration camps for Japanese, to the reinstallment of the Mafia in Italy, to the excessive destruction of non-militarized zones and the many, many war crimes commited by the allies in general. It's so bizzar how the allies are portraid nowadays, even though both sides were objectivly awful, one just slightly less bad then the other.

[@moschbear]

remember , they are still finding and digging up bombs in german citys to this day

[@rosshughes7977]

and there still digging up German bombs in British and French city's

[@Oldhammer57]

Most British cities are still doing the same.

[@Zinfandel92]

@@Oldhammer57 yes, but in comparison... today, still more than 3000 tons of bombs are only in berlin and it happens almost on daily bases.

[@vermilion7777]

@@Zinfandel92 Especially as the brits were so nice to build bombs that do not explode but much later, if ever. Also they wanted to rig Germany with nuclear mines to blow it up if russians cross the borders or something other... total pros in long time diplomacy...

[@doomhippie6673]

I guess if the commanders willfully target civilians it can be considered a war crime. The intention to harm them makes the ct a crime. However, targeting military and economic facilities is legitimate and legal. The question must be: was the aim of the bombing raid to destroy logistics and wartime targets? If so why was destruction and brought on on this level? Why were installation not "targeted" but the complete area carpet bombed? I find it hard to believe that the responsible officers did not intentionally target civilians as a intended "collateral damage". And THAT is the crime for me.

[@doomhippie6673]

And before anybody starts thinking I a, a revisionist: strategic bombings that target civilians are always a crime. And Germany has had more than its share of that. However, one crime does not allow for a "counter crime". That's not how the law works. And simply saying "war is hell" is like saying "people die everyday, so what?"

[@SpielkindFR]

Keep in mind that Dresden was one of the major logistics hubs in germany at the time. It was a legitimate target, and unfortunately level bombing from high up wasn't precise enough to hit anything more specific than "that city over there". Was it a war crime? I think so. But in the sense that the whole allied bombing campaign was a war crime. Two wrongs don't make a right. But so many right wingers here in germany hold up dresden as this unimaginable and unnecessary act of mass murder and they keep forgetting that the germans where the ones who invented that kind of bombing campaign.

[@jutswheezie]

The UN was founded after WW2 to stop this man made madness and they considered the carpet bombing a war crime. But look what the UN has turned into now - it is such a shame - Now the UN is after the only free democracy in the Middle East, which BTW is not carpet bombing GAZA even though according to Iran military there are 500 km of tunnels underneath a strip of land that is only 42 km long. What purpose do these tunnels serve other than terror??? Hence would flattening GAZA not be self defense?? Yet the Israeli risk their soldiers lives to avoid the killing of innocent people as much as possible.............

[@Asperger0815]

18:25 your stabbing example has a flaw, though. What they did was after getting punched in the face, they went ahead and stabbed the children of the one who punched them. I know this whole example is flawed because you try to compare a personal interaction with a population interaction. But it holds water in that regard as the allies, with all the moral highdround they took, weren't too shy about deliberately bombing housing areas specifically. Hamburg is an even more extreme example for that. Allied airraids targeted the harbour, which is a pretty specific area. While you might be able to put factories within housing areas to "protect" them with human shields (which the german government did at the time) you can't place a harbour somewhere else just like that. So when they bombed Hamburg in Operation Gommorha (hell, even their naming shows the intend) they specifically bombarded civilian housing areas often miles away from the harbour area. That was the first of many examples to follow where the allies didn't even try to hide their true intentions anymore. And while in hindsight we can debate to our hearts content if it was somewhat justified, if the german people were rightfully punished or they reaped what the sow versus the allies weren't better than the enemy they fought and commited equally atrocious acts and their generals should have been put on trial like the german ones, otherwise it's just faux victor showcase wartrials and not justice being served in a court of law, what M.T. Cicero said two thousand years ago holds true to this day: Inter arma enim silent leges - For among arms, the laws are silent, or as the more common translation: In times of war, the law falls silent Peace time moral codes and laws simply don't fit if the warbeast is rearing it's head. Sad? Yes. Horrible? Absolutely. But still a fact, unfortunately.

[@tomhamburg]

In February 1945 the war was as good as won for the Allies, even if a lot of blood was still shed on both sides. Dresden had no strategic or tactical significance for the course of the war. The city was full of refugees from eastern Germany - mostly old people, women and children. The bombing of this city was clearly a war crime for me. In Hamburg, where I come from, there was a devastating bombing raid in July 1943 in which around 25,000 people were killed and 50% of the buildings were destroyed. Strangely, almost no shipyard was hit. Submarines rolled there like they came off an assembly line. Nevertheless, I would not classify this attack as a war crime because it was not yet possible to predict how the war would progress.

[@robertbretschneider765]

My great-grandmother was in there, with my infant grand-uncle and pregnant with my grandfather. Escaped the cellar of her burning house, made it to the river bank. My grand-uncle cant stay near barbecues and bonfires to this day, he saw the sky burning with gigantic flames above his head and many other horrible things... he became a peace activist, with all the dangers from secret service that came with it in socialist GDR (DDR). The great-grandfather (survivor of Stalingrad) became cementary gardener.

[@ArchieArpeggio]

Well Dresden isn´t the only city that were bombed to obvilion. Allied had operation firestorm and they basicly bombed all the major cities whit or whitout military industrial in the city. If we count dead civilians the numbers would propably rise to millions. Can´t find the documentary of that anymore, but the Dresten were only small part of the whole event.

[@frankmoeder8998]

Flächenbombardements deutscher Städte 28./29. März 1942: Lübeck 23. - 27. April 1942: Rostock 30. Mai 1942: Köln 24. Juli - 3. August 1943: Hamburg 8. - 9. Oktober 1943: Hannover 22. Oktober 1943: Kassel 26. August 1944: Kiel 15. Oktober 1944: Braunschweig 3. Februar 1945: Berlin 13./14. Februar 1945: Dresden 8. April 1945: Braunschweig

[@ArchieArpeggio]

@@frankmoeder8998 Yep. Allied union were never accused of anything. Just like in the USSR millions of peoples died in Gulag and Siberia labor camps.

[@Norbert_Sattler]

I don't think you can really compare the atomic bombs to this kind of attack. An atomic bomb just wiped a big circle off the map and the only tweaking you can do is choosing the center. With hundreds of bombers and thousands of bombs, you can target specific areas within the city and try to hit only the military and other strategic targets. With such a massive raid and high level bombing in general, some civilian collateral damage would have been unavoidable due to proximity to the targeted areas or bombers missing their mark, or unexpected wind pushing the bombs off course, but this was not the case here. They deliberately targets everything, including residential districts well away from any strategic target. Besides, whatever else you might think about "Bomber Harris" at the very least he was up front and honest about his intentions. I'm not a fan of the "If you were there at the time" argument either. For starters, I think that argument is only applicaple for snap decision in the first place, not for planned and debated actions like this and for another, even the people who were there at the time weren't all on board. There were officers in allied command who tried to argue down this attack, but were overruled. Something that might also not have come through from that video was that the firestorm was not some accident or byproduct. The firestorm was something that the allies researched beforehand and deliberatly induced. This wasn't just collateral damage, but a meticulously planned and carried out massacre, and the result is exactly what they intended to do all along. In my opinion, the people in charge should be designated as war criminals posthumously (I'm pretty sure none of them are alive anymore). This was on the level with the things the Germans did and yet it was only the Germans who were punished. In that regard I highly value Eisenhower, who refused to comdemn Germans for actions that were also done by the allies, with something along the lines "If we punish them for that, you'd have to do the same to me"... though I'd have prefered it going the other way around, with him forcing through punishment for their own side too and himself, rather than pardon German crimes. But the point still stands: An atrocity is an atrocity, no matter who commits it and if you only punishing the people on one side, you lose the moral high ground. Yes the Germans committed a whole lot more war crimes than the allies, but at Nürnberg German leaders were judged for committing war crimes in the first place, not for committing more than the permitted amount or somesuch.

[@caobita]

Well said and nothing to add 🎯

[@ludwigneigl891]

The difference that made the allied bombing raids war crimes was when they start bombing cities with intention to target the civilians and their homes instead of trying to hit the factories in those cities and thus only causing collateral civilian casulties. But that the allies also caused massive war crimes, doesnt excuse the axis war crimes or make them anything less bad.

[@chrispanton3577]

Read the horror stories from the thousands of civilians killed by the luftwaffe in London, Coventry, Plymouth etc in 1940. There was a reason why the redistribution was lashing in mercy. Until 1943 the UK suffered more casualties from the blitz than they lost on the battlefield

[@ludwigneigl891]

@@chrispanton3577 thats wrong. the blitz killed 40.000 civilians. far less than british military casulties during ww2 and far far less then the 2 million german civilans that got killed. everything is relative. and yes the blitz was horror. but it was also kindergarten compared to other actions.

[@chrispanton3577]

@@ludwigneigl891 read it again. the point is that military casualties only overtook civilians casualties in 1943. Nothing was done to German cities that hadn't already been done to PL, NL, FR, UK cities in terms of firebombing, massive mines etc, just more effectively with larger and more numerous bombers. As they said at the time Germany sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind. Unfortunate and horrific time but the Nazi regime had to be defeated at its own game.

[@jutswheezie]

All of German was completely destroyed, the cities that suffered most were Paderborn, Düren and Wesel with a destruction rate of 96 to 99% - the most casualties were in Hamburg were 40000 people burned alive in one attack during a so called Firestorm. Köln was heavily targeted at first because the allied planes did not fly so far into germany at the beginning of the war - It is a miracle the cathedral suffered only minor damage. Most bombs were dropped on the state where I live and to this day, nearly 80 years after the war ended, still every week 2 WW2 bombs are found on average and need to be defused.

[@R0d_1984]

No, the dropped incendaries first, then H.E to spread the fires. The firestorm effect (sucking in air and super-heating it) was tested prior to it's use, it was well know; Britain had been working on these technologies before the war had even started. ''At the start of the Second World War, Coventry was an industrial city of around 238,000 people which, like much of the industrial West Midlands, contained metal and wood-working industries. In Coventry's case, these included cars, bicycles, aeroplane engines and, since 1900, munitions factories. In the words of the historian Frederick Taylor, "Coventry was therefore, in terms of what little law existed on the subject, a legitimate target for aerial bombing"." Taylor, Frederick (2015). Coventry: November 14, 1940. p. 117.

[@ZoeBrain]

As was Dresden , with some 180 military factories in the city, along with the main rail artery to the Eastern Front.

[@The_real_Arovor]

@@ZoeBrainCoventry was bombed during the war. Dresden was bombed when all theses factories couldn’t have saved Germany even if there were 100 of similar cities. Dresden was bombed when Germany was already defeated. There’s was no gain from these bombings other than denying the Russians part of their „bounty“ as Dresden is in East Germany.

[@ThePio42]

Renseignez-vous sur Hiroshima. 1 mois avant, Hirohito avait mandaté un membre de sa famille, son fils je crois pour négocier la réédition japonaise. Sa seule demande était la conservation des traditions et culture ! C'est pas dans les cours des livres d'histoire.

[@angievandebroek5917]

The bombing of Nijmegen (Netherlands) on 22nd February 1944 was a target-of-opportunity aerial bombing raid by the United States Army Air Forces on the city of Nijmegen in the Netherlands, then occupied by Nazi Germany. In terms of the number of victims, it was one of the largest bombardments of a Dutch city during World War II. Officially, nearly 800 people (almost all civilians) were killed by accident due to inaccurate bombing, but because people in hiding were not counted, the actual death toll was likely higher. A large part of the historic city centre was destroyed and Nijmegen railway station (the intended target) was heavily damaged as well. The Americans stated they made a mistake because they assumed they flew above Germany. Nijmegen is situated near the German border.

[@nickdanger3802]

The bombing of the Bezuidenhout (Dutch: bombardement op het Bezuidenhout) took place on March 3, 1945,[7] when the Royal Air Force mistakenly bombed the Bezuidenhout neighborhood in the Dutch city of The Hague, resulting in the death of 532 people.[8][9]

[@nickdanger3802]

The Battle of Nijmegen (1944) - The Forgotten Allied Success of Operation Market Garden kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4rSq3SHnM6rfck

[@kevanwillis4571]

Look at the atrocities performed by U.S. troops in Vietnam.

[@duke6321]

When it comes to the degree of destruction, no city comes close to the fate of the German city of Düren. Düren was bombed as an alternative target during an Allied attack on Cologne and over 99% of it was destroyed. After this devastating attack, only 9 houses were left in the entire city area. The rest of the city had been razed to the ground. The people of Düren were not willing to give up their town and rebuilt it on its old site after the war.

[@u.z.9383]

This is just one of many tragedies that occurred during World War II. When I hear Americans “romanticizing” World War II, I would like them to be reminded that their weapons also caused horrific scenes and many deaths. Did you know that usually when I select a German topic on KZbin (e.g. “Semi-finals Brazil Germany 1 - 7”), a Schindler’s List video is smuggled into the list “so that we never forget it…?”

[@Roz-y2d]

That’s just their ‘Hollywood’ mentality and their historical ignorance generally. The British had a large part in what happened to Dresden, something most of us have always felt uneasy about. However, the same was done to British cities. Do you ever consider that?

[@alansmith4748]

@@Roz-y2d Are you sure the same was done to British cities as German cities? I know a series of bombing raids were carried out against Coventry at the beginning of the Second World War, but, in general, were British cities destroyed to the same degree as German cities?

[@Roz-y2d]

@alansmith4748 London was bombed for 57 nights straight, and Coventry was destroyed. The intent was the same I think, although I’m not an expert on the subject

[@u.z.9383]

@@Roz-y2d yes, I do. There is a story behind the "moral bombing", that is, targeting civilians to instigate an uprising in the enemy's country. You wait until the dust settles and then you invade with a few divisions without any resistance. The British had settled on this during the 1930s - from my knowledge. Has anyone heard about this?

[@u.z.9383]

@@Roz-y2d I am not trying to water down this nightmare for the British. The number of casualties in Germany is 10 times higher.

[@oliverschwarz8532]

The roots of WW2 were in WW1, you should Look into that

[@Sandwitch_58]

German here! Dresden is now rebuild but is is still sad

[@MrDaiseymay]

AS YOU CLEARLY KNOW, BUILDINGS AND EVEN WHOLE CITIES, CAN BE REBUILT, BUT PEOPLE CANNOT.

[@valeriedavidson2785]

Coventry in England was almost completely destroyed by the Germans. The British did the same.h

[@feurigessiegelstuck233]

German here too. It is sad, but I blame the Nazi Government for dragging us into an unwinnable war and then, rather than capitulating when the war turned on them, still fighting and further destroying german cities and people.

[@realitymatters8720]

Why sad ? I understand the problem with the many civilias and refugees, that is sad. But Hitler had designated Dredsen as a "festung", and there was a substatial production of arms, and military presence in and around the city. It was also a railway hub, so a ligitimate target ! The real problem was that bombing tecknology made it nearly impossible to avoid carpet bombing, if anything effective was to be achived !

[@melchiorvonsternberg844]

@@valeriedavidson2785 Yes... 80.000 Brit civilians died of the Luftwaffe attacks and more than 500.000 inhabitants of Germany, died. It was not only Germans, 'cause of the many foreign workers, forced to work by the Nazis, to replace German workers, draft into the army. And they were not allowed to take shelter durin' the attacks. But who in the Bomber command cared about civilians from alliierd countries... They did their plan. So... In my opinion, it was largely a betrayl on the peoples of alliied nations...

[@Jezza-m5k]

Excellent reaction video. However, the "historian" in the video is biased and indeed David Irving is a more reliable source. The strafing of civilians and the Dresden zoo is well-documented and verifiable! Also, the city was full of refugees who had fled the advance of the Soviets.

[@ThePio42]

Les dirigeants USA ont commis tellement d'horreurs, ni la première ni la dernière ici. C'est à se demander si Satan n'est pas aux commandes de cet état. Je pense à une sortie récente de Tucker Carlson

[@LenaGus2728]

I’m an old lady in Sweden who has watched a lot of your vids. I’m so impressed with you, Connor, for knowing so much about the world outside the US, about Europe and history, for being smart, curious, critical and thoughtful! You come across as a very nice young man and it’s SO refreshing after having read the excruciatingly stupid and ignorant comments from the MAGA crowd since 2015. I have lost all faith in and respect for Americans the last few years and you are a shining light in that big blob of darkness that the US has become to me. Thank you! 🌷

[@spring_in_paris]

My Dad is 83 now. Dresden born. My grandmother hid in the basement that night. All houses had connecting basements with torn holes by the people, so they wouldn't be trapped, if a house collapsed. Neighbors who had sought shelter in the same basement during the night heard a fire bomb hit the roof truss but did not explode. They ran into the roof truss and threw out the bomb. If they hadn't, I wouldn't be writing to you here.

[@Ayns.L14A]

Yes Connor, there is a massive difference between targeting civilians and (collateral damage), civilians being killed during attacks...

[@joergfro7149]

To this time dresden was packed with refuges from east germany . The russian army was near of of .... Experts says up to 200,000 people in and around Dresden. No one can say how much are killed in this attack ... My grand grand mother was one of this refugees......

[@dzzope]

17:40 The difference between targeting civilians and civilians being colateral is the intent. Targeting civilians, you are activly trying to kill them, your target is the people not the infrastructure or material. For a war crime to be brought it would have to prove from documents, witness testimony or other evidence that On the Atomic Bomb, The city becomes the target. The bombs were dropped as much as a demonstration of power as it was a way to eliminate military or industrial targets. One of the most unfortunate things about war is that when you are talking about conflict on these scales.. The individuals don't matter, man woman or child, saint or sinner, genious or otherwise.

[@rojalD]

You don't have to be ordered to do a war crime for it to be a war crime. If the independent action of one soldier constitutes a war crime, like targeting civilian infrastructure (hospitals, homes, buildings not used for military purposes, etc.), it is a war crime. If it was ordered or not. If it was ordered, the one that ordered it is guilty as well. If he doesn't, he is still responsible for the actions of his soldiers and has to take responsibility.

[@dzzope]

@rojalD I didn't mention orders but all valid points. Also being ordered to do something isn't absolution from the responsibility.

[@rosshughes7977]

there's also another little piece of information that people tend to miss out and that's what constitutes a civilian, most civilians during this time were employed to manufacture military equipment across the whole of Europe so therefore they are no longer innocent bystanders in the war

[@rojalD]

@rosshughes7977 no! A civilian is someone that doesn't wear the uniform, colors or any other signals that would show that they're a combatant and doesn't take part in armed military operations. Civilians that build stuff for the military are therefore still civilians. You might argue, that they're not innocent anymore, as they're supporting the war effort, but they're still civilians. By your logic a farmer wouldn't be a civilian, because he produces food for probably also the army. Thus it's still a war crime to target civilians that produce military goods. You're also talking about "most", but there are children among these "most". Are these not innocent civilians that you're ok with bombing, because some people around them aren't as innocent as they are?

[@rosshughes7977]

@@rojalD its called war civilians in the vicinity of military factory's, forces, ammo depots are collateral. If wearing civilian clothing made you a civilian as you say then does that make all the jihadis in Afghan that were killed civilian as they wore civilian clothing or maybe special forces who wear civilian clothing to blend in. Its a simple fact that if you are a civilian working in a military factory and those factory's are targeted its not a war crime and any civilians that were in the vicinity innocent or not are collateral, to be charged with war crimes you either have to target somewhere that has no military infrastructure or literally be able to see someone is a non combatant, wounded, surrendered or civilian and still shoot anyway. sorry to say but if these laws applied to every innocent bystander then there would be no way to conduct successful military operations and all nations would use civilians as shields. people need to get in the real world war is a nasty business and to win you need to target the enemy's supplies even if that means civilians will die and that is something that has happened since the first militaries were formed and its still something that happens to this day, the only way to prevent it is for there to be no war.

[@kaystocklein2242]

I would like to say once again that the bombing of civilians was also a war crime at the time. No matter which side did it. That is also the reason why the war victors (the USA, the UK and the USSR) simply decided after the war that no victor could be tried for a war crime. German officers were (rightly) tried for bombing civilians in England.

[@michaausleipzig]

Most of the most devastating bombings happened towards the end of the war when the allied air forced were simply running out of targets. Most military facilities were already destroyed and the area held by german forced shrinked more and more. In the end it was about using up already produced bombs because you can't store explosives endlessly. The US did the same to the city of Würzburg.

[@Zaubernudel]

It depends on what are you bombing. All the industry and the cargo train hub in my hometown of Nürnberg is in the south of the city. There you won't find a single building older than 1950. This is war, fair enough. But in February 45 the he complete old Town, incisive the 800 y old castle, was burnt to the ground. That was unjust, Germany was alreay beaten at this time. My grany was 6y old and witnessed every single bombing of Nürnberg. She is 90 now and still is crying when remembers. She was a very untrusty and unsure person her whole life. A victim of war

[@scottneil1187]

Watch Grave of the Fireflies if you want to see the pain caused by firebombing Japan. Heartbreaking film.

[@semmel_PB]

My mother was born in 1939 and they lived in Paderborn. In march 45 Paderborn was bombed and about 85% of the town was destroid. One eveneing the topic came up und my mother told us children about that day, that when they came out of the bunker and my 6 year old mother saw the ruins she thought that she will have to live for ever in the broken town, because a 6 year old girl could not image that all that devastation could be removed in a livetime. She also remembered all the fire and that it was very loud. They lost everything that night but they lived. The neighbors were not so lucky, they were all gone

[@philipps379]

My grandma survived the Dresden Firestorm. She couldnt even stand a candle near her the rest of her life.

[@SNLORlo]

For me there is a big difference between targeting Civillians and accepting collateral damages. It is the difference between a war and commit a genocide.

[@Repentant7-w5f]

Americans and brits killed estimated 12 million civilians with those bombardments. When the war was almost over.

[@duke6321]

Dresden was deliberately destroyed and this attack was not assigned to military targets, but was intended to target the civilian population and have a demoralizing effect. The comparisons made here with the German attacks on Coventry are simply wrong, because Coventry was a city with an arms industry and the development of the city with apartment blocks and industrial plants was very mixed. The civilian losses were accepted, but they were not the real goal. That's an important difference.

[@tonymasters-c3g]

And your point is

[@duke6321]

@tonymasters-c3g Read - understand. Feel free to use your brain, it's not a bar of soap that gets less when it's used... 😉

[@duke6321]

@@tonymasters-c3g Read - understand. Feel free to use your brain, it's not a bar of soap that gets less when it's used... 😉

[@tonymasters-c3g]

@@duke6321 thank you

[@evilgerman1761]

The greatest tragedy, because of its apparently saveness, Dresden was the target of many refugee trail out of slesia and east prussia, fleeing the russians. Many of them were killed and never counted. Also the Mustangs, witch had no task, because there were no Luftwaffe, attacked as strafer the fleeing refugees on the open land sides by the river Elbe. thousands civil refugees were masacred there.

[@jan-peterbrodersen3302]

Of 28,410 houses in central Dresden, 24,866 were destroyed. 15 sq km totally demolished-of which there were: 14k homes, 72 schools, 22 hospitals, 19 churches, 5 theaters, 50 banks, 31 dept stores, 31 hotels, 62 administrative buildings. You should read Slaughterhouse 5 written by Kurt Vonnegut an American soldier who was a POW in Dresden and survived in a cellar of a slaughterhouse. So far for the military/industrial targets in Dresden. With that kind of destruction in a city packed with refugees the figure of 25.000 is total bullshit and the figure of 200.000 to 250.000 is most likely correct.

[@BlackWater_49]

6:06 Sorta. Also due to the massive heat development hot air rushed upwards (as hot as does) meaning colder air from the surroundings was pulling in the replace it, being then likewise heated up in a perpetual circle until the fire went out because there was no more there to fuel it.

[@jankock-bx7ps]

i think you have to anderstand that the USA never had a real war at home! Usa lost only 500.000 soldiers since ww 1, in the last wars! For use germans it is one week in WW1. In world war 2 there were 70.000000 dead. You see

[@oliverschwarz8532]

It makes little to no sense, they could have destroyed the City after a warning to spare civilian lives. Indiscriminately bombing a refugee filled city during festivities and then firebombing it while helpers try to rescue injured is despicable.

[@caobita]

100% agreed

[@Audulf-of-Frisia]

War crime. The allies committed many war crimes. They are just not often mentioned (the victor writes history principle).

[@Roz-y2d]

Or don’t write it.

[@IrradiatedFeline]

If it is a war crime when your enemy does it, it is a war crime when you do it. When the allies wanted to go after the german navy for ordering the submarine fleet to stop assisting survivors of the ships they sunk, they had to stop pretty quickly because they were the cause of that order. Allied planes attacked a german sub that was in the middle of taking on survivors. Despite being made aware of that fact. Many german u-boat captains still defied that order.

[@MLWitteman]

My grandfather witnessed the bombers from the Dutch city of Haarlem, heading towards Germany. He thought it was extremely impressive to witness, but his parents were terrified. My grandfathers grandparents were killed by a British bombing mistake.

[@paulbaker2054]

@@MLWitteman Sad to hear it, war is brutal we lost relatives in the blitz no matter what your intentions are in war there is always innocent deaths.

[@stringer-ik1pc]

Thank the British for the freedoms you have today. Wasn't your country neutral during the war. ????

[@MLWitteman]

@@paulbaker2054 it absolutely is. The British suffered a lot too of course. Thankfully the UK didn’t have to suffer though Nazi occupation.

[@MLWitteman]

@@stringer-ik1pc we not only thank the British, but also the other allies like the Polish, Canadians & Americans. My grandparents were actually liberated by the Canadians, and my grandfather from my dads side was liberated by the Red Army. He was forced to work east of Berlin by the end of the war. He had to walk back to the Netherlands. The Netherlands was neutral at the start of the war, just like in the First World War. But Hitler didn’t respect Dutch neutrality, unlike the German emperor did. The Dutch army actually held the Germans back, and destroyed quite a lot of the German Air Force. Which helpt the Brits in the Battle of Britain, because the Germans lost so many aircraft. Eventually the Dutch government had to capitulate, after the destruction of Rotterdam. Other cities like Utrecht, Haarlem & Amsterdam were next on the list of the Germans.

[@rosshughes7977]

@@MLWitteman as an ex British soldier i found that the Dutch and the Belgians were the two European nations that still show the British armed forces a lot of respect even after all these years. lets all hope we are not pushed into anything remotely similar by all the warmongering politicians we have globally at the moment

[@ArcAudios77]

Connor, Thanks for worthwhile Education through this review of factual Content. Heard about this at 14, not in such detail. Felt it was 'WAR'. Moving forwards with different mindset. Troubled by such that actually happened in War. Regards & best wishes moving fowards Sir.

[@Alte.Kameraden]

TIKhistory did a better video on this subject. He does claim it's a warcrime as well, but also points out the falsehoods often told about it by some very bad distorians who inflate the tragedy often by 10-20folds.

[@lillibitjohnson7293]

“From the invasion of China in 1937 to the end of World War II, the Japanese military regime murdered near 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most probably almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. This democide was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture (such as the view that those enemy soldiers who surrender while still able to resist were criminals)”

[@stefanragler9584]

so whats your argument here? just trying to look smart?

[@lillibitjohnson7293]

@ people were arguing about the poor innocent civilians in Dresden and Japan My argument is that they had to be stopped because they were all genocidal arseholes. Nobody was innocent in those countries. They all sent their sons to commit atrocities They all stood by and watched the mass killing of their disabled relatives and they helped round up the Jews. That’s my damned argument . That’s not being smart, that’s just fact

[@cartmann227]

Whats your point? A crime justified?

[@krupnikovic]

Somehow i know, they had Phosphor Bombs. They are very hot and the fire dont stop. Really bad bombs.

[@caobita]

Yes 😔

[@laurentpaumier3103]

You navigate in a world where, like many of us, you just want the truth. But many other people just choose a side and they don't see truth and justice anymore. I'll always make my best to not become that blind in any way. For that, it's important to fight for democracy. And democracy isn't just votation. It's many things like more and better education and free press. What you do is a good example.

[@Roz-y2d]

I agree, but democracy doesn’t mean voting for the democrats!🤣

[@derfailer3434]

My Grandma was in Dresden at the time, she said there was a pool in the center of the city as a reservoir to help fighting fires. As all buildings was at fire many burnung peaple tryed to get the fire out by jumping in the water but the water was cooking.

[@caobita]

OMG, that's so horrible 😢

[@xlerb_again_to_music7908]

This was war. Each side grabs the biggest hammer they can with which to smite the other. Which is why war is a bad idea, although over the years the horror is forgotten - then there is another war and those lessons have to be learnt over and over again.

[@gabriels.kundiger8926]

My Grandmother was there, while the attacks, her story is still today horryfying, with red burning steel constructions, burning Church of our lady, and the fighterplanes who shoots into the masses of refugees who flee down to Elbe River. 80 Years later still horryfying

[@TheShibangelist]

Check out the Allies bombing of Ploiesti Romania, even after it switched sides

[@grahamtravers4522]

Hitler's main source of oil ...

[@oliverschwarz8532]

It's not difficult to decide that it costs more soldiers to abide by international law it's the basic of a modern engagement. It's not optional.

[@angelafuchs4698]

You are a very smart guy. Keep up the good work👍

[@femaleonthewatch]

Today, Dresden is one of the most beautiful cities in Germany. It has been rebuilt magnificently.

[@michaausleipzig]

Couldn't agree more with what you said on allied war crimes and letting people off the hook. It feels like americans can be very apologetic when confronted with war crimes committed by their own guys. I watched reactions to Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers. Both include scenes were US soldiers kill either surrendering german soldiers or those who were already their pows. And the reactors sometimes go to EXTREME lengths ro find excuses to these killings.

[@alexpawlowski2743]

Did you know that although Germany started the war, France and England did everything they could to bring it about? That's exactly what they wanted. Nazis did terrible things. To be honest, it has to be said that other countries were not such shining heroes as they later portrayed themselves. The weapon in the shadows remains a weapon, the victims of war don't care about its supposed value. War is murderous and the murderers rarely sit on the battlefield.

[@dnocturn84]

18:48 These bombs did most likely not hit the people who started the war. I highly doubt that any Dresdener civilian was around in 1939 and opened fire on Poland. They were just civilians.

[@dzzope]

How do you define "the people that started the war" Was it Hitler? (Obviously yes but he can't do anything alone) The troops that marched across the borders? The worker building tanks? Or the people who voted for it driven by hate and false promises? Nothing is simple.

[@lillibitjohnson7293]

They were having celebrations whilst they were still committing genocide.

[@dnocturn84]

@@lillibitjohnson7293 There were no celebrations and the vast mojority of these civilians did not know anything about that, nor were they involved.

[@lillibitjohnson7293]

@ didn’t you watch the video? I guess you didn’t. It’s one of the first description of that day in Dresden he gave.

[@dnocturn84]

@@lillibitjohnson7293 It was 1945 and they were loosing the war. There were food shortages and tons of dead relatives to mourn. Hundereds of thousands refugees flooded the main station. A local carnival club of a couple of dozen members supposingly celebrated carnival there. This statement is highly exaggerated - sounding like the whole city partied there - which they didn't. Holy sh*t - rarely do I witness more one-sided views, that want ot give the topic a specific spin like this.

[@jan-peterbrodersen3302]

Every German city with a population of 100k+ was bombed to rubble in that war.

[@Stefanleip]

Yes the Nazi commited war Crimes. So the Brits and the US as well. Bombing Dresden at this point of time was a discrace!

[@ninamoores]

@@Stefanleip It was war! That’s what happens in wars. The Nazis started that one!

[@fyrdman2185]

@@ninamoores What did the Nazis have anything to do with Britain? That was not Britain's war. Your a joke in the world stage now congratulations.

[@ninamoores]

@@fyrdman2185 If you’re going to comment in English learn to write it properly , then learn some history .Perhaps then you will not make such an ass of yourself by displaying your ignorance to the world!

[@ninamoores]

@ By your comments you seem to be semi illiterate. If you work at it you may be able to read some history and perhaps learn something

[@ARetiredPirate]

I used to live in Dresden for 3 years, it is a nice city now and has a even more amazing surrounding area.

[@markusamshoff7359]

no, that was not the most destroyed city of Germany in WWII, it was one of many !! All big cities Hamburg, Münster, Cologne, Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt… and many small Citys !!

[@matthewrandom4523]

Maybe it wasn't necessary anymore that the British Airforce made this, but I can understand them. My German Nazi ancestors bombed England in rubble and ashes. So, every nation would have answered to that bombing the same way, right!?

[@spikeus3039]

The problem with Revisionist Historians is they Don't understand what "Total War" is!

[@estranhokonsta]

WW2 was not yet at the theoritical level of total war. But even then it managed to kill so many people. More than total war, what people do not understand is war. Nobody that lived all his life in peace can ever understand war.

[@ninamoores]

@@spikeus3039 You’re right about that.Armchair Generals.

[@Strakin]

Morality was dying more and more as the war went on.

[@robertschumacher9640]

some of this comments can be seen seen critical as the old town was not the Industrial hub of dresden and the bombs where designed to open up the rows of residential buildings to feed the flames.

[@Janie_Morrison]

Sorry about stopping the video but I've just got visitors come to the door I'll watch the rest tonight

[@spokydorky]

WOW! This will take time and it is answered to best point of my wisdom about the topic. Q: Was the attack a warcrime? A: ABSOLUTELY! Not Just that it happened in February '45, that is 2 1/2 Month before the end of the war, where such an attack on "mostly" Civilians was most definitely unnessecary. But even more because of the pure hate the AOC Arthur "Bomber" Harris, who invented the "Firestorm", had against the germans. He even tryed this taktic first on Hamburg befor using it on Dresden, just to make sure it would work. Q: Was it moraly righteous? A: ..... maybe, BUT! Here we come to the point were the Allied Forces wants to be discribed as the knights in shinig armor who saves europe from the evil of the N**i's. Fine by me if it would be indeed knights in "shining" armor who saved us, not the same "bloodhungry hellspawn's" they want to stop. If you want to be heros, then behave better than taking out revenge on whole citys where more fall who didnt deserv it than those who deserv it. Or be a monster who does these things but then stay to the name "War criminal" forever in history! I could go on but, who am i kidding. Only a few people are granted a true understanding of such a morally complex topic. Or as a spark of history said: 'The wise have always said the same things, and fools, who are the majority have always done (adendum: say) just the opposite.' - Arthur Schopenhauer

[@larryzigler6812]

Only MAGA would think it not justified

[@Blayda1]

Shocking ,, that's the point , its make you not forget , to realise that this is a consequence of wars. Its a harrowing learning moment.

[@Blayda1]

"We cant allow some one to muddy the waters." I dont attach you to this but the US Government is renowned for doing just this.

[@jan-peterbrodersen3302]

The firestorm of Dresden could be seen from a distance of 320 kilometres or 200 miles.

[@robertomiotti1312]

Di quanto accelerò la fine della guerra? 10 giorni? 15? La Germania aveva già perso la guerra è stata un'inutile strage.

[@grahamtravers4522]

The Germans should have surrendered then ...

[@marieparker3822]

Memoir/imaginative SciFi book by Kurt Vonnegut Jr: 'Slaughterhouse 5'.

[@paulbaker2054]

Germany started it. Remember the cities they bombed

[@R0d_1984]

The RAF was bombing Berlin and a few other cities several months before the war even started, there's recordings of mustache man telling them to stop or the retaliation would be terrible. The German airforce used X-Gerat navigation, a ''radio'' beam they followed to the target, the Brits found a way to ''disrupt'' 'it, move it, they moved it from the target to coventry.

[@paulbaker2054]

@@R0d_1984 Proof

[@martynnotman3467]

​@@R0d_1984they absolutely were not bombing anything before the war started. This is utterly bizarre statement.

[@czoborarpi]

Actually the RAF started it. The Germans did not bomb civilian targets before the first bombs fell onto Berlin. And contrary to popular belief the Brits bombed Berlin a few times before the Luftwaffe retaliated.

[@martynnotman3467]

@czoborarpi rubbish. See the 1939 attack on Warsaw and the May 1940 flattening of Rotterdam. The first British raid on Berlin was August 1940

[@barrykrishna9981]

The Germans did the same to Coventry - very sad it all is.

[@CobraChicken1302]

Sad, and the germans did coin the term "coventieren" from it, meaning to raise a city to the ground. But in all honesty , not fit for comparison. In the Coventry blitz an estimated 568 people were killed in the raid (the exact figure was never precisely confirmed), with another 863 badly injured and 393 sustaining lesser injuries. The lowest estimate in Dresden is 25K dead, and go as high as 200K. The whole 8 month blitz killed ""only"" about 45K civilians in the UK ( writing these nrs and call it low i feel crazy , i know) , that is nothing compared to what was done in return. Not casting blame, i would have done the same after 5yrs of war get some payback, we are human, we have emotions. But was it just, needed or rightious, hell NO.

[@barrykrishna9981]

@@CobraChicken1302 The holocaust was not needed either, how many "Dresden's" was that? If we play the numbers game of death maybe only Russia should be complaining in WW2. I do not buy into the numbers game of good behaviour in war. War is brutal, I defend none of it, and I criticise most all of it.

[@R0d_1984]

No, one was a mistake, the other was on purpose, also Britain had been using early fire-bomb tech for months previously.

[@aidencox790]

@@R0d_1984 WTF? ONE WAS A MISTAKE? AARE YOU NUTS? 6 YEARS OF HITLERS MURDEROUS MISTAKES THAT TOOK MILLIONS OF LIVES? SCREW DRESDEN - LOTS OF KMILITARY STUFF THERE AND TH SOVIETS WERE CLOSIG IN FAST. BESIDES, THE KRAUTS WERE THE FIRST TO KILL CIVILIANS AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH PAYBACK.

[@jukeseyable]

@@CobraChicken1302 The germans would have done far worst had they developped a heavy bomber programme that actually worked, only thanks to the foresight of Goering, he wanted every bomber to be able to dive bomb, this doesnt work well for 4 engined heavy bombers, they tried it with the He 177, and it didnt end well

[@paulbromley6687]

Well it’s always easy to lay blame in retrospect. I don’t regret retaliation taken by my recent ancestors for the desperate measures they were forced to take by a crazed leader of a belligerent totalitarian regime bent on destruction of races and nations. It was a close run thing too. They weren’t all NAZIS, you have to fight fire with fire sometimes.

[@js1423]

Most of the bombing-victims were civilians instead of military

[@CavHDeu]

Mönchengladbach, Krefeld, Cologne were more destroyed...

[@kv2315]

Slowclap for the Allied forces… Also Dresden was very very low on any military installations and the bombing was actually aimed at the civillians and THAT is a warcrime noone ever was charged with! I like your comparison. There is NO reason to ever kill civilians in any war! My grandmother always talked about the war when something remined her on certain things and one time she told us about her dear friend that went to germany for work and lived in Dresden. My gran heard about the bombing on the radio (we live in austria) and tried to call her but noone answered and after a week or so my gran got a call from her friend and she told her that Dresden is no more and that the whole city was leveled…

[@grahvis]

Who makes the weapons which allow war to happen?

[@francescogallina2559]

but... are you really surprised thinking to atomic bomb on Hiroshima and nagasaki? How many civilians deads? And Japan was about to surrender.

[@matthewashman1406]

The Soviets requested it.

[@kaitakala1474]

This was just a show-off to Stalin & his orcs, showing them in practise what the huge bomber armadas of western allies were capable of/had done as allied war effort. No military goals, just a show-off.

[@PhilipShand]

This is what is meant by "Total war". No quarter offered & the victims not given the chance to ask for it.

[@Paltse]

War is both sides doing bad things.

[@alwynemcintyre2184]

True Connor, not all war criminals were from the axis powers, there were more than enough war criminals in the allies that didn't get charged because the allies turned a blind eye to it

[@drekruizinga8696]

Letting war crimes of the hook, like Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

[@nimaxwerker]

If we are going to pass a moral judgement then we have to use all information that was in the hands of the commanders of that time at that moment in time (no hindsight ). All considering keeps the fire bombing of Dresden a bit a 'moral. The whole raid was a bit of an experiment in which the outcome far exceeded the prognoses. The use of the atomic bomb was with the information available at the time a justifiable decision. Japan at the time was a humanitarian disaster with the pool of total calories in country for the population prompted looking for a solution to end the war A.S.A.P. Never mind the prognosis of casualty's on the allied side for an amphibious invasion. But here is the kicker. Was the throwing of the atomic bomb, a decision made on moral grounds. I believe it wasn't. I believe that it was based on Political grounds. To send a message to the Sovjets. Whose invasion of Manchuria made it certain that the Japanese would surrender, but that would have taken a longer period to finalize. The throwing of the atomic bombs in the end arguable saved more lives than that it took, but not due to the virtue of the allies . One has to look only to the firebombing of Tokio, Where their were double the casualty's over the 2 atomic bombs.

[@fullfacility]

The Germans carried out The Baedecker raids (Baedecker was a tourist guide of culturally important places) on British cities with no strategic value or war production facilities including Bath, Canterbury and Exeter. We are not anti-German but we don't feel guilty about hat we did. As "Bomber" Harris famously said in relation to the bombing of civilians, "They (the Germans) sowed the wind and they will now reep the whirlwind".

[@theoderich1168]

You seem to be one of those ignorant of the fact that the British were the first to bomb cities and civilians in WWII; after a while Germans responded to that. BTW it is spelled "to reap".... Cheers from Germany P.S.: I might consider respecting the Americans and the British once they've started to admit their war crimes against Germans whether soldiers or civilians. It seems like most never will, due to the lack of a backbone

[@jukeseyable]

@@theoderich1168 You are in no position to make any noise here with your hypocracy. The first RAF raids against Germany were against military and industrial targets, the policy only changed on the 15th of may 1940 2 days after the Luftwaffe's bombing of Rotterdam. You seem to be one of those ignorant of the fact that the Germans were the fist to bomb civialian targets, they were also the first to declare war, they were the first to set up extermination camps in WW2, by June 1940 Auschwitz heled 700 prisoners. Respect form someone like yourself is niether needed or valued, maybe you need to go back to school and learn the facts. Modern Germany has distinguished itself in the honest and frank manner that it educates its people regarding WW2, some how you appear to have not had the same level of education, so a date for you, 30th jan 1943, this is just fine british scarasam right there. Frankly Germany is lucky, it could have got the bombs that hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but the Russiand beat the Western allies to it. Best be quiet, because just like RAF bomber command in late 1942, I'm just getting started

[@stue2298]

@@theoderich1168 The Germany bombed civilians first in WW2 in Poland, Norway amd the Netherlands and what they did to Poland after they where incharge was horrific. So it pretty ignorant of you to point fingers. I have nothing to applogise for, I wasn't born till way after WW2 ended and my family was either too old or too young to serve in WW2. One of my grandfather was a Air raid warden and the other was gased in WW1 a few times and was in no shape to serve in another war. I think the real question is why did they do it? Was it out of revenge or a legitimate tactic to demoralise the enemy?

[@theoderich1168]

@@stue2298 What have Poland and the Netherlands got to do with Brits and Germans bombing each others' cities ??? Britain declared war on Germany - do we agree on that? ( not on the Russians, that's strange; they invaded Poland too) And British bombers were over Germany before German ones flew to GB - do we agree on that as well? That was all I wanted to say. And here a few quotes by Churchill: "We will force this war upon Hitler if he wants it or not." speaking on the radio in 1936. "Germany becomes too powerful, we have to crush her." conversation with US-General Robert Wood in November 1936. "This war is an English war and its goal is the destruction of Germany." address in the autumn of 1939. "We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without giving one shot, but we didn't want to." talking to Harry Truman in March 1946.

[@stue2298]

@@theoderich1168 Typical say a statement which is incorrect, getting called out on it and then move the goal posts. All the quotes rather than the one that really mattered before the war. The settlement of the Czechoslovakian problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace. This morning I had another talk with the German Chancellor, Herr Hitler, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as mine [shows paper to crowd]. Some of you, perhaps, have already heard what it contains but I would just like to read it to you: " ... We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again". Neville Chamberlain British Prime Minister Sept 1938.

[@midgard0]

why should we ever forget or forgive?

[@Janie_Morrison]

Was a very cruel thing and I felt sorry for them poor people what happened to them it was very disturbing to listen to

[@Ratzie01]

Perfide Albion

[@Jan-i-tor]

When "good guys" doing evil things they are evil too.

[@B-A-L]

And to think if America had bothered to turn up in 1939 alongside Britain's true allies the war would have been over by 1940 and this would never have happened!

[@nickdanger3802]

Britain and France declared war on Germany then waited for Germany to go through Denmark, Norway, Netherlands and Belgium to bring the war to them.

[@grahvis]

@@nickdanger3802 . Would you expect them to enter other countries without a treaty enabling them to do so? Britian went into Norway at the same time as did Germany.

[@Roz-y2d]

And the Holocaust would have been halted in its tracks! 🤷

[@nickdanger3802]

@@grahvis France/Germany border is over 200 miles/300km. Why Didn't Britain and France declare war on USSR when it invaded Poland 16 days after Germany ?

[@bikerboyT1050]

by 1945, sympathy for germany and the germans were very lacking around the world. the phrase "serves em right" was very prevalent at the time. i was born in 1965 and grew up with many who served in and lived through the war.