American Reacts When Did England and France Stop Being Enemies | SideQuest Animated History

👉Original Video: • When Did England and F...
👉Discord: / discord
👉 Patreon: / mcjibbin
☕Buy me a coffee!: www.buymeacoffee.com/Mcjibbin
📦P.O. Box info (NOT accepting ANY perishable items)
For any clothing: l'm a Men's size large
McJibbin
P.O. Box 447
Bristol, Rhode Island 02809
USA
Hi everyone! I'm an American from the Northeast (New England). I want to create a watering hole for people who want to discuss, learn and teach about history through KZbin videos which you guys recommend to me through the comment section or over on Discord. Let's be respectful but, just as importantly, not be afraid to question any and everything about historical records in order to give us the most accurate representation of the history of our species and of our planet!
Having a diverse perspective is crucial to what I want to achieve here so please don't hold back! I want to learn about all I can! Keep recommending and PLEAESE join my Discord :) ( / discord )
#american
#mcjibbin
#americanreacts
#reaction
Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.

[@NuWhoSucks]

Who said we stopped? I still don't forgive 1066.

[@nedludd7622]

That is just silly. Is it meant to be a joke?

[@NuWhoSucks]

@@nedludd7622 Yes... It was.

[@colinharbinson8284]

@@nedludd7622 not a joke, i get up early in the morning,so i can hate them for longer.

[@dannjp75]

Wasn’t the the World Cup final? He was never offside, bloody cheats.

[@bakersmileyface]

If I had to describe our relationship with France now, I would say *Passive Aggressive*

[@micade2518]

Go tell that to the thousands of Brits (some brexiteers!) who've retired in our "Douce France"!

[@JackLongbridge]

I've always thought it was funny that Europeans often use the favourite foods of our enemies as insults. Us Brits in the past called The French Frogs, and the German's Krauts. The French meanwhile called the British rôtibœuf (Roast Beef)🤣

[@wallythewondercorncake8657]

My ex was Dutch, and the shortened version of her name was legitimately Mayo lol I called her a nutmeg slut

[@grommeuleur1648]

Now we stop killing each other. We can solve our problems on a rugby or football pitch... We love to hate each other...

[@martynnotman3467]

Queen Victoria and Empress Eugenie were really good friends so despite politicians quite wanting a bit of xenophobic frog/rosbif bashing nobody wanted to upset the Queen.. Both Castlereagh and Wellington made their views clear at Vienna about not dismantling France.

[@tibsky1396]

Queen Victoria was also really good friends with Louis-Phillipe I and Napoleon III both. She was also an admirer of Napoleon I, during her visit to Paris in 1855, she made a point of visiting his tomb at Les Invalides.

[@graadlon]

This is not garlic it's onions !! it dates back from the time the islanders from Britany came to london to sell their yellow onions in london . They had them around the neck in strings to display them. The londoners affectionnaly called them the johnnies because in french yellow is 'jaune'...

[@graadlon]

me again : Aquitaine was under the influence of the Plantagenet because Alienor of Aquitaine who first married the king of France divorced him and THEN married the king of England taking her duchy with her. Very fascinating woman! She was also the mother of King Richard Lionheart ( and John who signed the Magna Carta)

[@user-vh7uo2su3h]

This comment brings back memories for me. I was told that my Welsh speaking g-g-grandmother, who struggled with, English, always looked forward to the visits from the 'Johnny onions'. Apparently she found the Breton Language easier to understand and always chatted to them.

[@richardwest6358]

They still do !

[@nedludd7622]

Once again there is the trope that Napoleon was small. He was about average height for his time at 5'6" or 5'7", about the same height as Nelson maybe an inch or so taller. Wellington is said to have been 5'9". The idea that Napoleon was small came from English propaganda at the time.

[@tixien]

Actually we just celebrated the 120th anniversary of the alliance. FYI since President Chirac (1995-2007) the U.K. is officially handled as a French national interest, meaning an attack against the U.K., if significant enough, could trigger a nuclear response from France.

[@MrBulky992]

An English king (Ethelred II) married a Norman princess. That act did not give any Normans a claim to the throne of England, any more than Prince William marrying Catherine Middleton would give the other members of the Middleton family a place in the line of succession!

[@K8E666]

Loved this ! You did great and your British historical knowledge is definitely expanding. There’s so much history here that it’s difficult to get a thorough understanding of it in a short amount of time

[@georgehh2574]

We weren't mortal enemies but we were closer to the Prussian state than we were to France prior to the decades leading up to the First World War.

[@Mickman007]

Not a fan of these cartoon history things.

[@petersone6172]

We’ve stopped! When?

[@chevalierbaleine4894]

I knew a whole bunch of English students coming to France to learn our language while teaching theirs to our young people by working in schools. They were excellent drinking companions with whom I had excellent times. There's no war other than who among us can take the booze the best ✌ (We can take much longer from what i saw)

[@xenotypos]

Austria (through Metternich) was indeed the main defender of French interests during the congress of Vienna. Prussia was the most agressive, Britain and Russia were in the middle, it varied. Ultimately, not a lot of people really wanted to dismantle France simply because it was hardly possible, not without immenses ressources at least. Even after being beaten, the country was still formidable and could negociate, and the population could have revolted. But yeah, Austria and Britain wanted to keep France anyway. But a nerfed version.

[@Brookspirit]

I wasn't aware we stopped.!?

[@francis_p]

Britain and France did in fact continue to get into colonial squables well into the 20th century... For example, the Foreign Office's wet dream in the 1920s-1940s was a United Arab Kingdom under British suzerainty. For that to happen, the French had to be dislodged from Syria, which almost happened twice (at the very begining helping a rebellion in 1920, and at the very end during WW2 as an added bonus of ousting Vichy). That plan was scrapped because of the Palestinian crisis, but in the meantime there was plenty of drama between the two allies and adverse feelings persisted at all levels of society.

[@JJ-of1ir]

Lord Castlereagh was a powerful member of the British Government and part of the British 'team' at the Vienna peace process after Waterloo.

[@micade2518]

With the Entente Cordiale Treaty, of which we've just celebrated, on both sides of The Channel, the 120th Anniversary. Btw, that Treaty was drawn mostly for both nations to stop quibbling about ... their Carribbean and African colonies!

[@djs98blue]

My father in law said French onion sellers used to visit his town market in south wales during the summer months and really did carry them around their necks.

[@richardwest6358]

They still do

[@morganrenders3139]

the war of Augsbourg League (1689-1698) and the war of spanish succession (1701-1714)

[@jonathanhicks140]

We stopped? I didn’t get the memo, does that mean I don’t need to restring my longbow?😂

[@cenedra2143]

Wait, what? We're not enemies? 😂

[@sarahpagett9191]

Who told u we wasn't lol

[@bremnersghost948]

209 years since Waterloo, Tea break is over lads, It's Frog Whomping time again ;-)

[@donkfail1]

As a 50+ years old European thinking I'm pretty well aware of European history, you know a lot that I have to look up to be sure. You reverse the common idea of ignorant and uneducated Americans that is so wide spread. Good for you and the future of your young nation. Keep up that curiosity. I have great hope for you.

[@colinharbinson8284]

It's hard to actually hate the French.....................but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

[@davesimpson5702]

Who was there matters not - Britain was supreme post Waterloo in 1815 so we dominated and influenced events to our choice

[@666johnco]

He ommitted to mention the massive naval arms race that kicked off in 1858 when the French launched the first Ocean going Ironclad warship Glorie. Which caused the building of first HMS Warrior then lots more Ironclads by the Uk and the heavy refortification of the English Coastline. A Cold War France lost because we could build ships so much faster. That was abandoned by France post 1866 when the Austro-Prussia War showed Bonaparte he had serious worries on the continent. He also made no mention of the Fashoda Incident in 1898, when French troops arriving in Southern Sudan just as we were beating the Dervish at Omdurman which nearly caused a Colonial war over who owned what in Africa. It was Wilhelm II's naval arms race with us that caused the hatchet to be buried, conflict with vichy aside. BTW regarding your mention of Marshall aid France wound up having to spend a great deal of its on a very expensive war in Vietnam. Thus benefitting much less than Germany did.

[@tibsky1396]

Its more diplomatic incidents than a war.

[@666johnco]

@@tibsky1396 I know thats why its called 'the Incident' There were armed troops there from both sides though and high levels of shouting in both countries streets.

[@patthepelvisful]

Very english video : russian, prussian, swedish, spanish and english finally won in 1815.

[@OneTrueScotsman]

The animator made the classic mistake of giving the English character, a Union Jack outfit. And did so for an era that by and large pre-existed the UJ and the UK as a state. The UK came into being long after, most of this. I'm not sure what flag England used back then. I think they just used the white cross, and the French used a red cross.

[@wallythewondercorncake8657]

I don't think that last sentence is even remotely true. Also, you should have actually watched the video before commenting because he does use flags accurate to the time period he's talking about.

[@OneTrueScotsman]

@@wallythewondercorncake8657 when has the flag of ENGLAND ever been the UNION JACK? It's no more than flag of England than it is Wales or Scotland. Its the flag of the UNION. This video is specifically about England and France. During most of the period described, France and Scotland were allies, and neither the union or the union jack flag existed.

[@wallythewondercorncake8657]

@@OneTrueScotsman It isn't being used to represent England, as I just fucking explained to you.

[@davidelourenco2537]

A) no one watches LOTR standard Editions anymore. B) no one is ever in the midle of watching these movies.. If you start you cannot stop.. Lol

[@artrandy]

He doesn't take a blind bit of notice of the salient history points contained in this video, he has his own agenda, which means that he goes off at a tangent all the time. His teachers must have struggled with him......

[@MrBulky992]

He has ADHD and has admitted as much many times.

[@artrandy]

@@MrBulky992 Some of his videos are quite watchable, he has an endearing personality at times. Other times, his head is in the clouds, and the vids are unwatchable..........

[@loulouchris1085]

Stop burger King bro

[@Paul-tp9vf]

We haven't.

[@geoffbeattie3160]

Never!!!

[@laurajarvis3156]

Neverrrrr....lol no to be fair I went on holiday to France many times I can speak the language good enough to get by sane with Italian and Spanish. Loved going abroad as a brit kid

[@101steel4]

Wrong flag

[@lyndarichardson4744]

We haven't 🙂

[@rosaliegolding5549]

The first WW you have to UNDERSTAND WILHAM THE KAISERS CHARACTER HE WAS UNFIT TO RUN HIS COUNTRY see Prussia etc history to understand and comment on it it’s very complicated 🤷‍♀️

[@kevinturner3997]

Who said we stopped?

[@user-uv9vg9jo8l]

The English still don't like the French .

[@stephendisraeli1143]

From the Sixties; "Q ;Why does General de Gaulle live at Colombey-les-deux-eglises? A; Because they worship God in the other one." De Gaulle started the enmity again, because he did not forgive us for helping him in the war. The famous "Non!" to British entry to the Common Market. The Soames Affair. His insistence on spelling "Concord" with an E. And so on.

[@MrBulky992]

No good deed goes unpunished.

[@MrBulky992]

The British government should have insisted that the extra "e" be put in brackets.

[@micade2518]

What a load of BS!!! 1) General de Gaulle was permitted by the Brits to establish his HQ in London, from where he masterminded the French Résistance (that paved the way, as did all the other European countries' Résistance) to the victory; 2) The "non" to the Brits entering the then Common Market was based on his distrust of the too independant-minded Brits: he must have laughed (or cried) in his grave at the preposterous Brexit, bellowing "I told you so!"

[@MrBulky992]

​@@micade2518You hit the nail on the head when you said "permitted". De Gaulle probably considered it as being "on sufferance" and was often not invited to the top table and was kept in the dark about certain aspects of the war e.g. Algiers and D-Day, more than he would have liked and until the latest possible stage. It was all done with the best of intentions: the British and Americans did not want secrets to leak out and De Gaulle was not wholly trusted from that point of view to keep information under close guard and was only involved on a "need to know basis". De Gaulle and Churchill did not get on well.

[@MrBulky992]

​@@micade2518Also, De Gaulle said "Non" at least partly because France was the prime mover and shaker, the dominant force in the EEC at the time and he realised that there would be competition within the organisation for that position if Britain joined and dissent too because the UK was likely to take different views on issues and lacked any zeal for the political aspirations of the bloc at that time, originally set up to stop Germany and France going to war, something which did not require the UK to be a member.

[@derpeek]

Britain not easy to invade? It did happen at least twice. One time a single battle (raid on medway) and the at the start of the Glorious revolution😉

[@GSD-hd1yh]

The myth of the abandonment of French troops by the British at Dunkirk has, arguably, been perpetuated over the course of many decades. It owes its existence to a lack of knowledge of how many French troops were rescued at Dunkirk: just over 112,000 French soldiers and other allied personnel were lifted by the Royal Navy during Operation Dynamo, alongside 225,000 troops of the BEF. The origins of this dispute stem from a difference in terms of how both Allies viewed the Dunkirk Salient from the start. The British were intent on evacuating from Dunkirk from the beginning, but the French army and navy had intended the opposite of an evacuation; Admiral François Darlan, the Chief of Staff of the French Navy, supposed that the Dunkirk beachhead could be sustained in order to become a continuous threat to the German flank. Since both the French and the BEF had conducted their own separate retreats and were manning their own sections of the Dunkirk perimeter, the Admiralty simply assumed that the British would evacuate BEF troops in Royal Navy ships, while French soldiers would be evacuated in French ships but these were based in the Mediterranean, and eventually it was decided to remove as many French as possible during Operation Dynamo.. The fact that many of these evacuated French troops ended up being returned to France, after barely a week’s pause, to face the Germans again, followed swiftly by the defeat of their country, deprived the French of any sense of victory from this event. Furthermore, the Dunkirk evacuation, though widely celebrated in Britain, attracted a ‘chorus of condemnation’ in France. Evidently, this feeling has never left French society.

[@MrBulky992]

So the D-Day landings count for nothing, then? I would have thought the scales would have been seen to be even?

[@GSD-hd1yh]

England + France - it's a Love/Hate relationship - we love to hate each other. They suggest 1815 as the date we settled our differences, but there is an argument for 1972 when the French veto of England entering the European Economic Community was finally withdrawn.. Yes we came to their aid in 2 World Wars but they hated having to request our help, French pride was dented and they resented us for years afterwards.

[@rosaliegolding5549]

It’s too involved to explain the two countries explanation. 😮 but basically simply the Normans over throw the Saxons in 1066 and throughout Royal history they married for land and wealth eg , Eleanor of Aquitaine and Henry I of England she owned a large portion of France BUT in those days the King didn’t rule All of France it was made of Principalities similar in Italy as an example and Eleanor was one of them plus there was other Principalities England owned though marriage SO IN TIME GRADUALLY France slowly became one country and this happened by taking the land over time that is why they were fighting each other all the time England was just protecting their rightful ownership of the land , the last piece of land was Calais lost by Mary I Bloody Mary in mid 1500’s NO MORE LAND TO FIGHT FOR but it left a GRUDGE and has never been resolved although England has come to their aid and they in turn did the same at times BUT THAT GRUDGE REMAINS YES ITS A PUZZLEMENT Macedonia did it with the Greeks , Cypress and Turkey have a grudge to this day years and years of grudges Many countries in the world have done this if you know your History USA and Mexico have a History of Territory taken 🤣 🤷‍♀️

[@Brookspirit]

The French sold Exocet missiles to Argentina in 1982, and it's said that they provided Argentina with help to fire the missiles against the British.

[@Mmjk_12]

Load of horseshit lmao. France was a partner with Argentina, but when the war started they suspended all arms deals immediately. And sold UK additional arms.

[@magdos7160]

427th

[@squirepraggerstope3591]

Btw, and popular slang references and epithets applied by any people to others, always give a good idea of their real basis of relations. We still have more accurate but deservedly unflattering allusions to the French than to any other people. While they fully return the compliment. Eg; look up the phrase "les Anglais sont arrivés" and what the 'Crapauds' use it metaphorically to denote.🤣🤣🤣

[@micade2518]

"deservedly unflattering allusions" Oh, thanks! BS!

[@squirepraggerstope3591]

@@micade2518 🤣🤣🤣

[@micade2518]

@@squirepraggerstope3591 You wanna start the 100 years war all over again? :o(

[@squirepraggerstope3591]

@@micade2518 Good grief, no. After all, that's one we eventually lost!😜

[@micade2518]

@@squirepraggerstope3591 Hum ... what happened to the good old British fair play? :o)

[@rosaliegolding5549]

Theses Animated videos are so annoying nothing like a excellent Narrator to pass on the History 🤷‍♀️

[@champ16ns12]

Never

[@fabs8498]

Too late

[@D25Bev]

We're very much still enemies. Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

[@rnw2739]

That Union Flag shit is NOT the flag of England.

[@MrBulky992]

A lot of what was in this video was not specifically about England at all. Scots regiments fought in the Wars of the Spanish and Austrian Succession, the Seven Years' War, the American War of Independence/Revolution, the War of 1812 and the Napoleonic Wars in general, including Waterloo, to name but a few.

[@jameselder720]

We haven't stopped being enemies... France still behaves like a hostile enemy nation today.

[@wallythewondercorncake8657]

France and Britain actually fought each other quite a bit in WW2. I'm oversimplifying but France basically switched sides and joined the Axis.

[@tibsky1396]

There were two France in WW2, Vichy and Free France, Pétain and De Gaulle.

[@volcanares9620]

"switched sides" : France was defeated and had to sign a humiliating armistice, half of mainland France was occupied by Germany and the rest was under control of Vichy France which was officially neutral but had little millitary power left to oppose Germany and was more likely a puppet state. Vichy France did fight the allies when she was attacked by them

[@wallythewondercorncake8657]

@@volcanares9620 Call me crazy but personally I don't really have much sympathy for Nazi collaborators.

[@wallythewondercorncake8657]

@@volcanares9620 Call me crazy but personally I don't really have much sympathy for Nazi collaborators.

[@volcanares9620]

@@wallythewondercorncake8657 which is understandable and normal

[@sarahpagett9191]

The problem with the france its full of the french and they never turn up on time in war

[@luisfilipe9272]

Quel méconnaissance de l'histoire....

[@tibsky1396]

Oh Really ? ... “They came from all the provinces of France, these soldiers and sailors whose ashes were to remain in a distant country, which had become their second homeland because they had sacrificed their lives there. I have a deep feeling for them, and every American must have a special gratitude for them. » _ Georges Washington. “The French Army, with its experience of more than 17 months of war, represents the best allied army. The assaults of his infantry seem irresistible despite all our firepower. Defensively, the French soldier has exceptional endurance, capable of maintaining his position until death. During bayonet combats, he proved to be a formidable killer, of the same value as his ancestor in Napoleon's Grande Armée." _ Ernst Junger, Elite Sturmtrooper, and German Writer at the Battle of the Somme in 1916. «These Frenchmen, under the gallant leadership of general Molinié, had for four critical days contained no less than seven German divisions which otherwise could have joined in the assaults on the Dunkirk perimeter. This was a splendid contribution to the escape of their more fortunate comrades of the British Expeditionnary Force » - Winston Churchill, The Second World War. vol. II. Their Finest Hour. “The prolonged defense of the French garrison played an important role in the reestablishment of British troops in Egypt. From the outset, the Free French seriously disrupted Rommel's offensive. The supply of supplies to the Afrikakorps was severely affected. The increasing concentration of the Axis to pierce this abscess saved the British 8th Army from disaster. The delays brought by the resolute resistance of the French increased the chances of the British to recover and facilitated the preparation of a counterattack. In the longer term, the slowdown in Rommel's maneuver enabled British forces to escape the planned Axis annihilation. This is how we can say, without exaggeration, that Bir Hakeim facilitated El-Alamein's defensive success. " _ British historian Ian Playfair, on the Battle of Bir-Hakeim in 1942.

[@DUNOIS62]

According to historian Niall Ferguson: "of the 125 major European wars fought since 1495, the French have participated in 50 - more than Austria (47) and England (43). Out of 168 battles fought since 387 BC, they have won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10", making France the most successful military power in European history-in terms of number of fought and won.

[@phillipcarter55]

What kind of video name is that. We have never stopped being enemies. And never will. What is this wokery bullshit

[@squirepraggerstope3591]

We never stopped being enemies. Look at Macron's policies and attitude to Britain. Our C20th "entente" starting pre WW1 was dictated solely by our unchanging security needs. Which then required opposition to Germany, the preeminent continental power dominating Europe and in the process, putting at risk the vital North Sea and Channel coasts. So threatening directly our control of the "Narrow Seas". We saved France then AND, at WW2's end, insisted in Washington that she be restored to at least nominal "great power" status. For OUR benefit. Not hers. PS; and re the general peace thrashed out after the earlier UK leadership on exactly the same basis in the wars AGAINST Napoleonic France, it was negotiated at the CONGRESS of Vienna, not the "council". Y'see, as Lord Palmerston observed "We have no eternal allies and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.”

[@tibsky1396]

Macron acted against UK for the interests of the European Union, not France. Besides, he never acted for the interests of France. And Brits never landed in Normandy to "save" France. As you said, they acted for their own interests. This means keeping the enemy as far away from their island as possible. As they did in WW1, or Napoleonic Wars etc...

[@squirepraggerstope3591]

@@tibsky1396 OK, that's worth a detailed reply. So, on the second point, absolutely correct. We fought in WW1 to protect our own interests. NOT to save France... although in fact it had that effect regardless. As without British and Empire involvement (at the cost of nearly 1.2 million dead), the Kaiserreich would have soon knocked France flat yet again, for the 2nd time in forty-odd years! So the question retrospectively for any Brit must be... "was the vast cost in blood, money and relative power even remotely worth it?" ...and in truth the answer is almost certainly "NO!" After all, in 1914 Britain.. 1) -was the indisputable global imperial hegemon, financial and banking hub, trading giant and unchallenged world creditor nation. 2) -had already quite easily and decisively won the Anglo-German naval race. Not least as massive discretionary naval expansion on top of maintaining the most effective army in Europe, overtaxed even Imperial Germany. While as their army was essential, it was always their navy that'd have to see Berlin cap their resources. By 1919, however, it was becoming very obvious that undisputed British preeminence was no longer the case and the main beneficiary of the war was the USA. So in short, the main impact of WW1 was that the only thing saving AND funding France (which naturally and promptly defaulted on the huge debt) had 'achieved' for Britain, was to expedite the rise of a far more powerful successor as global hegemon than either France or even Germany could ever be. It's thus in respect of WW1 that I spoke of our "saving France". Something which though i.m.h.o. it was stupid and unnecessary, is also no more than an obvious FACT. While as for WW2, without the 1st war (or had we more shrewdly aligned ourselves with Berlin to fight it) it's disappearingly unlikely a 2nd war against an unmitigatedly repugnant absolutism in Germany would've ensued anyway. NOR very likely that the C20th's OTHER unmitigatedly repugnant absolutist dogma could have established itself in Russia, either. NOR, if you look at my first comment, did I in any case write that we saved France in WW2. I said that we "insisted in Washington" on France's at least nominal restoration to great power status. Which again, is no more than verifiable fact and was done by a then also very obviously reduced UK. Once again, understandably but ill-advisedly in pursuit of OUR OWN interests. Yet also again, which did work immediately to bolster a very much more reduced France, anyway. Albeit with the also very predictable upshot that France itself sought only to pursue its own advantage as per usual. The obvious eventual upshot of that being, after Suez, French elites inevitably dropping the remnants of the entente completely and embarking instead on an ostensibly "pan (continental) EUropean" route to hopefully bolstering French influence. Specifically via the contrived doctrine of "strategic autonomy". The most comedic euphemism of all time and which.. 1) -is the inevitable result of innate French resentment of not just the UK but of the entire global Anglosphere; the USA most of all! 2) -has inevitably involved France, as an at most unprepossessing medium power, in an attempt to play out its fantasy post-imperial dream of ongoing great power capacity, by leveraging THE ONLY still 1st rank European economic power to enable this. IE; by using German strength as an acquiescent medium through which it can still try to impose obvious French agendas on the other continental nations. Or in brief, France's delusional determination to continue pretending to EUropean great power status has led predictably to its formulation of a specifically anti-Anglosphere/US/UK doctrine to hopefully enable this... ...which means that in turn France has had to and still does have to consistently court German support (by hilariously and ever increasingly playing the role of Germany's reliable "mini-Me") in order to try to leverage pan-European adherence... ...and thus that Paris must ALSO work within the structural context of the loathsome EU central institution's desperate "ever closer union" drivel... ...which translates into plain English merely as an undead C21st version of the Holy Roman Empire. With both Brussels and Paris obviously each hoping that THEY will be able to function indefinitely as the prime locus of decision-making... ...which in practice requires Germany's already embarrassing, eight-decade-long quest for unnecessary national catharsis and full readmittance to the human race, also be continued indefinitely.🤣 All of which answers your first, more idiotic assertion. As in reality, ANY French leader MUST always appear to be acting "for" the EU institution simply in order to be able to keep messianically, selflessly-pro-EUropean Germany supinely compliant and so act for the hoped for REAL beneficiary... FRANCE! You're therefore making a distinction that in reality doesn't exist and needn't exist. At least for as long as the real POWER, GERMANY, can be duped into piously accepting the fantasy premises on which it all rests!

[@homoerectus6953]

we hate there choice of cheese.............and lack of beer.