Six Flags & Cedar Fair Meger Everything I know

[@djeez553]

DC names, not Marvel*

[@basilfreeman1216]

I thought I was the only one that caught that 😂

[@rkniner]

Also IP, not LP

[@markm3901]

Right Marvel is a Disney brand.

[@kevwwong]

@@markm3901 Yes, but Universal has the rights to some Marvel IP east of... the Mississippi I think?

[@alexgeorge501]

I would perfer a YTV re-theme of KidsVille in my opinion

[@Johnnyiswhere]

I do find it interesting that Cedar Fair has a top 5 parks, and Six Flags has a top 5, which combined will become a pretty potent top 10. It will be interesting to see the investments in these parks.

[@TheNinjaDC]

In terms of Cedar Fair parks using Six Flags IP, I think it is worth noting Kings Island's Camp Snoopy retheme only covered 1/3rd of their kid area. Two thirds of their planet Snoopy area remained not updated. In the past, Peanuts areas that got updated to Camp Snoopy were fully updated. It's almost as if Kings Island/Cedar Fair is reserving the remaining 2/3rds for other IP. Potentially Looney Toons.

[@Danrarbc]

The other way to look at it is the Cedar Fair Peanuts deal expires in 2025. They might roll out an IP Six Flags has a better deal on - and at KI they can just throw the Looney Toons IP on the new stuff they have. If you look at it the IP bits are definitely replaceable.

[@TheNinjaDC]

​@@Danrarbc I don't see them ditching Peanuts in 2025. So much would have to be spent on retheming and rebranding. I feel they will negotiate a good deal with the threat to drop the IP, but not drop it yet. First I feel they'd see how well the Looney Toons and DC IP perform at Cedar Fair parks alongside Peanuts. Then if those IP perform better there won't be a Peanuts license renewal next time.

[@michaezell4607]

KD didn't rebrand their kids areas all at the same time either.

[@Danrarbc]

@@TheNinjaDC Kid area branding isn’t that hard. Six Flags already has a few different version of their kid area theming. There is the Bugs Bunny National Park version which is literally a drop in replacement kind of thing for Camp Snoopy. Swap out the characters and you’re done and it still has a park/camp look. Planet Snoopy is a bit more general but Six Flags has other branding options that might fit that feel better. I’d wager the conversion would be cheaper than a new multi-year IP deal.

[@Starlit43]

Six flags is apparently announcing Mr Six returning to the parks just when this merger is about to start. I wonder if cedar fair had a part in bringing him back.

[@briano9397]

He's the entire image I have when I hear six flags anything

[@Danrarbc]

I don’t believe in coincidences on stuff like this. I have zero doubt Cedar Fair was interested in the character and they believe it would be a wonderful way to start ushering in this era.

[@wereallyrollin6680]

@@Danrarbcexactly that’s why I don’t think people have to worry about the IPs if the new six flags cooperate wants to implement them they are going to do well they have with the peanut IP imagine what they can do with the current and if this goes well other Warner Bros IPs

[@vortexluigirosalina5557]

I can’t believe we’re getting closer to the Cedar Fair and Six Flags merger

[@ChuckE.CheesesIllinois]

Hope this merger brings back Great America's theming as Cedar Fair is good with thay stuff, plus more Looney Tunes since we're the only park without a Looney Tunes Land.

[@CarlosHill-w6f]

Even with the merger Disney still makes more money with fewer parks. That's crazy

[@mayalazovic8758]

The Great Lakes region is truly a powerhouse when it comes to amusement parks . Maybe six flags should invest even more into the region .

[@jonballard6425]

They did it was called six flags ohio and we see how that ended up.

[@brandoncole5533]

3 of the top 5 parks in the chain are in that area Kings Island Cedar point And SF great America Maybe CW if you wanna include it there

[@coasterfamilyfeud3247]

I’m riding it next week! How are the lines?

[@garywillis7253]

Hopefully Zamperla keeps their hands off Ka

[@tnk361]

The thumbnail has Bluey. They're not gonna use her BC Disney has the rights.

[@pctheboom]

Hopefully it means that La Ronde might get some TLC finally

[@djeez553]

We'll get repaved asphalt, four new trees and a new bench for 2025!! In all seriousness, I hope the same... not everyday you have an amusement park located in one of the largest downtowns in North America. Someone needs to see the potential in that and get a crack on proper development.

[@namevone]

I feel like it's more likely to get sold off than anything else, which potentially could be for the better. I think one of the first things the new company will do is sell off some of their lower tier parks if possible and La Ronde is one of the first.

[@Danrarbc]

Why would they. Cedar Fair owns Michigan’s Adventure guys.

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

Why would they invest more in LaRonde? The financials don't make sense to invest when you have to sell regular passes for $60 CAD($44 USD), platinum passes $80 CAD($58 USD). At those low price points you have to do ridiculous volume to make decent money. SF Mexico has the same issue with the low prices in pesos converted back to USD.

[@djeez553]

@@MCQ-fq6bv LaRonde is the most profitable park in the SF chain lol, they also host the world's largest fireworks festival, brings in a ton of money. They get money, attendance is stagnant and people will go anyways, so that's why they don't invest in the park anymore. With new leadership, and a new vision (and hopefully they stop blocking the park's demands) they can become a strong park vs a bottom tier park.

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

People need to realize that while they call it a merger of equals, it's not! Cedar Fair have 51% stake, but have 10 of the 11 Executive Team. CEDAR FAIR IS ESSENTIALLY COMPLETELY RUNNING THE SHOW! The only position of SF is Chief Integration Officer, which is a made up position during the merger that will surely go away within a few years as the "integration" of the 2 companies will be completed in all aspects. The CEO and the executive team run the parks, which are all CF. This is a complete management takeover by Cedar Fair people, while the Six Flags name is being retained for corporate. Hence, since it's all Cedar Execs retaining their roles CEO, CFO, COO, down to Head of Procurement . HR, etc,,, things at legacy Cedar Fair parks aren't going to change. They are going to keep doing what has made them successful. The changes will come ideally at SF legacy parks. The fact that the Exec team is 10 of 11 Cedar Fair people means Selim Bassoul nor his Board thought much of his Execs and wanted the Cedar Fair management team to do a massive takeover and/or this was a demand by Cedar Fair. You don't see a merger executive teams this lopsided in "merger of equals", this is the level of lopsidedness of an acquisition of a company in financial/managerial trouble.

[@AmusementInsiders]

Exactly

[@selyang647]

what kind of pass will come up with that you be able to use at all six flags and cedar fair parks

[@jonballard6425]

One that cost 600 dollars.

[@fantasy8833]

@@jonballard6425 so is this the last season where you can get $79 season pass??

[@jonballard6425]

@@fantasy8833 I dont know where you get your all parks pass and season pass for 79 dollars. But i would say yes to the 79 dollar season pass and the add ons will be ridiculous. If they include all six flags parks i would say look for a big increase.

[@donaldkennedy9573]

I think somewhere down the road that Magic Mountain will have to expand. They would have to double the park. They have been trying for years. But they would have to buy more land from Newhall Land. Years ago Magic Mountain had been planning to build a hotel but nothing came of it.

[@jpq21]

I doubt they would buy more land, it would be unwalkable. They have plenty of existing spaces they could repurpose first, like where some of the Fright Fest mazes are or the storage/employee buildings behind Goliath/WW/Batman are.

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

SFMM isn't getting new land. The land was sold by Newhall to Developers, hence why all the new housing built and under construction right near the park. The noise complaints from people that chose to buy a home near an amusement park happened from day one and will only get worse.

[@donaldkennedy9573]

@@MCQ-fq6bv Oh well. It will get worse. SFMM will just have to go ahead with what they have.

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

@@donaldkennedy9573 SFMM has plenty of space. They have rides that are old, not very good anymore & have low ridership that they can take out...Viper is top of the list. It has a nice plot of land. They also seem to be getting creative as the new 2025 ride is going in the old stadium spot. They also cleared a space by Wonder Woman which the outlined markings seem like a rectangle, so maybe a new restaurant or flat ride. There was also a rumor recently that the observation tower that hasn't been used for many years will be renovated or removed this off season.

[@donaldkennedy9573]

@@MCQ-fq6bv I do like Viper but it seems that they are going to demolish it in the next few years. The observation tower should go so that they can put something there. I was so happy when Green Lantern was demolished. That ride was terrible. I know they want to retain Gold Rusher but one day that ride might have to be removed. I love that ride though. Crazanity is very boring but people seem to love it. My favorite rides are X2 and Tatsu. What are yours?

[@realnicksutton]

2:21 I think you’re forgetting that the board of directors will be comprised of 12 directors, six from Cedar Fair, and six from Six Flags.

[@stevehysick2078]

The merger will be very similar to the Paramount acquisition. IP will change, rides will be relocated, and economy of scale will drive profitability. There are more SF locations than CF locations and even though leadership will be Cedar Fair the troops under them will resist change. In short, it all won’t go down the CF way. Dynasties are going to fall and new ones will emerge.

[@jacksonpriestap3685]

Blockbuster merger before GTA 6

[@clairefunnell8481]

Interesting. Honestly I'm not really concerned about this merger. Lots of possible benefits for everyone. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@JasmineDreams]

give us the teeeeeaaaa

[@carson_cwc3671]

Is Canadas Wonderland one of cedar fairs top 5 parks?

[@AmusementInsiders]

@@carson_cwc3671 yes

[@1982robgeorge]

They need to off load six flag darien lake near Buffalo

[@robertstephens5185]

It's just a managed park. Same with frontier city. Six flags has management contracts on those, not ownership.

[@michaezell4607]

At least with the ongoing investment into jungle X pedition we know that KDs pretty safe at this point.

[@BOBSBOWLINGSTUFF]

Just so happens, that I will be one of the first guests to walk through the gates of Darien Lake under the new company in about 3 weeks

[@oldchannel611]

Do you think we'll see any investment into La Ronde or will it still decay under Cedar Fair management given it's a smaller priority in the Six Flags chain already

[@carlosribeiro3821]

Same could be said for Darien Lake. La Ronde and Darien are at the bottom of the barrel for the parks.

[@julianhudson7811]

I hope the new Six Flags gets rid of the DC superheroes entirely and just focuses on the Peanuts and Looney Tunes.

[@wereallyrollin6680]

They said all 3 and I don’t expect it just to be those 3 if they find something in Warner Bros they like they try to get it like six flags is doing with fright fest they are getting IPs now I expect that to be the way I think they want to be at least the 3rd best themed experience brings in new guest which is what the whole company needs

[@michaelbruzina6835]

Why was bluey in the thumbnail 🤔

[@tnk361]

I'm thinking the same thing

[@michaezell4607]

Basically the SAME thing will happen with the combined chain that was previously happening with the two chains separately . Each individual chain had their respective "big four spoiled rotten parks" with the remaining ones being the redheaded stepchildren of their respective chains. If both cedar fair and six flags couldn't effectively manage the number of parks they each had then what makes them think that they'll be able to successfully manage a combined chain of 27 individual parks? Back in 1998 when premiere parks purchased six flags they alone had 13 parks while six flags had 7 parks which resulted in a grand total of 20 parks altogether, then they foolifoolishly purchased the European parks and la ronde as well as Mexico which added another 6 parks to the chain. Obviously they didn't have the financial resources necessary to cover expenditures for all of them and most of the parks became neglected as a result (SFA comes immediately to mind here) and attendance sharply declined at these parks resulting in six flags having to declare bankruptcy due to their massive debt load. Cedar fair has also been in debt as a result of the paramount parks purchase in 2006 and like six flags has had to scale back on chain wide capital expenditures resulting in only one or two major investments per season with only KD and wonderland slated to receive large scale investments for the 2025 season.

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

Cedar Fair parks are managed well, they give Capex based on markets, ROI,. etc,,, The top parks get more b/c they top 5 produce more than 80% of the revenue & income. Cedar Point and Knotts each produce more than 25%, followed by KI, Wonderland & Carowinds. Cedar Fair's Season's of Fum plan has worked great. They improved food, aesthetics, theming, etc... It has lead to record financials. SF parks in contrast are managed poorly, they failed at their cheap price, high volume model as they couldn't produce organic growth by 2016/17. The cloning of cheap rides at every park didn't really work. They tried to push memberships at a higher price point, but that failed as they were giving away too many benefits for the price, so they ended that. They tried a massive price increase and premiumization under Selim and that failed miserable as they lost 7M attendance in 1 yr and regressed to 2017 financial levels, the same years post pandemic that Cedar Fair & SEAS were producing record profits and backed it up with like results the following year. Cedar Fair's debt is good debt, it's from purchasing profitable assets that they have made even better. 3 of the top 5 parks financially are former Paramount parks(Paramount 5 parks cost 1.4B). They also purchased Schlitterbahn(261M), best Water park brand in the country and highly profitable, more so than 4 or 5 dry parks in the chain. They also bough Sawmill Creek Resort for a steal of around 11M. They also invested in the sports Complexes approximate 40M. In contrast SF has 2.3B and has nothing to show for it, no profitable assets the bought or built.. The debt is mostly from them borrowing money to buy back stocks in the 2010's to juice their stock price. FYI, you're completely wrong on Cedar Fair's Capex decreasing b/c of debt, they went to 1 or 2 major coasters as part of the Season's of Fun plan. The actual total Capex was actually higher, they were just spending it differently on improving infrastructure, aesthetics, food/restaurants, hotels/resorts renovations & new construction. All these things that are producing ROI. Just look up the massive increase in food and beverage revenue. Also, the massive increases in hotel/resort revenue since the first renovations started with Breakers, then the new wing of Breakers, Carowinds hotel, Sawmilll Creek, Knotts hotel, etc.. Six Flags has scaled back their Capex which was always their formula since bankuptcy. they were guided by a formula based on revenue. They have spent far less on Capex than Cedar Fair for decades, despite having more parks, thus the state of their parks. FY 2022 SF Capex was just 112M, Cedar Fair 183M..gap of 61M, FY 2023 the gap was 51M. If you go back pre pandemic Cedar Fair Capex was consistently 50 to 60M more than SF annually. More than a decades of under investment has taken a toll on SF parks.

[@kimberlysymonds7517]

Is the normal 2025 pass going to come out in August again?

[@mary_berries]

He said later in the video that it won’t affect normal pass sales in August. Guess so.

[@fantasy8833]

will the pass still be $79

[@lightningboat]

Do you think Flight Deck will get the Riddler and SkyWinder treatment? They seem like fun rides now after the new trains and profiling work, though they are still quite rough.

[@Basketballkid2342]

There was a power outage today at the park

[@PLUMMAxX]

yes and it sucked. Then Yukon and Behemoth shut down due to wind

[@MrKsanders1985]

Not happy about this merger. The Six Flags parks will benefit more than Cedar Fair parks. The Cedar Fair parks will get less investments. Also, several parks are going to be sold and or closed. Those decisions will come down over the next 2 years. They have to have a plan to get this debt down. After a few years, parks will be rebranded.

[@JewishMusicToronto]

I don't know what LP is... Legal Property? Or do you mean IP (Intellectual Property).

[@AmusementInsiders]

I meant IP

[@JewishMusicToronto]

@@AmusementInsiders always enjoy the funny mistakes, Brendon! 😅

[@laurareinig2281]

I really hope they don't do the whole super hero thing. Not every roller coaster needs to be Batman. My question is that being that Hanna Barbera is under the Warner Bros company could they make a comeback? Even if just some retro merch. Also having been a Six Flags pass holder at Darien Lake and watching them run thr park into the ground this makes me very nervous. We currently prefer to drive more twice as far and deal with a border crossing than go to the park closer. We're from Buffalo.

[@YouTubular1234]

I don’t personally think that wonderland will be in the top 5. It will be Knott’s, Cedar Point, King’s Island, Magic Mountain, and Great Adventure.

[@SlackerWannaB]

Wonderland should be number 6. The weather hurts it unfortunately.

[@johnboulanger807]

@@SlackerWannaBI don’t think weather is a factor, it is the highest attended seasonal park in North America. By gate it is # 2 for this merger: 2022 Attendance Knotts 3,899,009 Can Wonderland 3,768,000 Cedar Point 3,444,000 Kings Island 3,340,000 Magic Mountain 2,993,000 Great Adventure 2,153,000

[@jolietpinball7439]

Great America (Illinois) is typically the most profitable park in the SF portfolio, based on the number of days/hours open per year, with an operating season of 6-7 months. Attendance can be similar to KI and CP (3.1 M in the years leading up to 2020) although it was down significantly the past few years, like at all SF parks.

[@brandoncole5533]

Replace great America with either other sf park then you'd be right because the opinions on great America have been shifting and it's been moving up in the opinion of park goers

[@ChuckE.CheesesIllinois]

Why is bluey in the thumbnail

[@AmusementInsiders]

👀🤔

[@Antoniowilsonjr2002]

​@AmusementInsiders I doubt bluey will be there cause disney owns that if they have that disney will definitely be suing

[@Starlit43]

The B&M’s will get DC names like super man ride of steel, Batman the ride, and Wonder Woman lasso of truth

[@frenchtoast4491]

"my source is that i made it tf up"

[@Starlit43]

@@frenchtoast4491 Six Flags Wonderland 😂😭

[@Spike-sk7ql]

I would hope NOT. The CF parks are allowed yo have their own identity, and no dumb IP coasters. It would be better if it stays that way.

[@briano9397]

Then my leviathan squishmellow will be an OG and more valuable

[@racingphotographer8251]

there are already a Six Flags America and Six Flags Mexico so CW would be Six Flags Canada

[@jad3760]

this is what i have been waiting for yesssssssss

[@carlosribeiro3821]

Darien Lake is done. They need to the nail in that coffin

[@Leafs888]

Do you think, with this merge, we'll see a roller coaster like Kingda Ka eventually make it's way to Canada's Wonderland? I know that CW would have to purchase a ton of land for it, but I think it would be awesome

[@EclipseCoasters]

Nah bro bc Intamin the manufacturer of King da Ka doesn’t use hydraulic launches anymore they pretty much only use LSMS bc they are more reliable

[@mary_berries]

Would be awesome but I don’t see that coming here tbh.

[@EclipseCoasters]

King da ka prob gonna get the TT2 treatment but I hope it will be open cuz I went to CP like 2 months ago and it was closed

[@TheBusymumof4]

Canadas wonderland doesn’t have space to buy more land… it’s completely built up. Where would they put it?

[@EclipseCoasters]

@@TheBusymumof4 they are kind of land locked like CP and Knotts

[@Tdzzz450]

We need more doo doo the clown

[@KWHCoaster]

Marvel, DC,.... groan. Stick with original naming outside of KidZville.

[@coasterfair2602]

5:28 what about Carowinds

[@CoasterSwiftie]

i swear if la ronde dosen't get anything new...

[@TheBusymumof4]

I would like Darien Lake and La Ronde to get some updates and new rides

[@kit34126]

Cool

[@memesrct_official]

After the merge between Six Flags and Cedar Fair, here's my wild card thoughts on IPs that might come to some of the Cedar Fair and Six Flags parks. I would see them looking into Spy X Family, Ochi no Ko, and The Rising of the Shield Hero.

[@julianhudson7811]

*Oshi

[@Failfast0]

Hope they ditch Charlie Brown and bring in more exciting characters for the kids.

[@chadmorris946]

First step needs to be strip out all the junk coasters and rides and then remodel and refresh the parks to CF standards. There won't be a change to CF parks. Raptor is not going to be changed to Batman The ride or whatever else BS people are coming up with. Cedar Point, Kings Island, Carowind ect are not adding Six Flags to the name. At most we may see Cedar Point add a Looney Toon area or Kings Island add a DC themed ride to the action zone area.

[@Danrarbc]

What junk coasters? Cedar Fair operates Boomerangs and even an SLC. So what’s a Cedar Fair standard coaster? We do know that they plan on upgrading the new parks being added to the chain. That was investor presentation

[@jpq21]

That’s all fine, but what’s with this video?

[@AmusementInsiders]

What do you mean?

[@jpq21]

@@AmusementInsiders I mean the video has no correlation to the narration, and there’s no explanation. And it repeats.

[@jpq21]

@@AmusementInsiders and it’s weird with those dudes measuring stuff, and the random targets, like WTH?

[@stewartarmstrong6345]

First

[@jeffsites7351]

Cedar Fair, Big Mistake, this is going to be a disaster.. i said the same about Top No-Thrill 2 & look how great that turned out...