Is The Merger of Six Flags and Cedar Fair Doom and Gloom? - Part 1

[@Uncle_Nate]

McLovin is the king.

[@ElToroRyan]

McLovin is love, McLovin is life

[@shaxility]

​@@ElToroRyanYo eltororyan I'm replying to you because you are a W channel

[@DoomPlague]

Pretty sure I saw him at KI about a week ago...but I didn't want to yell out "McLovin!" in public.

[@shaxility]

You aint a true McLoviner then@@DoomPlague

[@KatzStudiosMedia]

​​@@DoomPlagueMe too! I think I was behind him in line for The Racer.

[@MrCusefan44]

Years ago in business school one of my professors said “all mergers are actually acquisitions - sometimes it just takes time to identify who was acquired”. His point was the new management will primarily (often nearly exclusively) come from one company. In this case it’s likely Cedar Fair managers will be running Six Flags parks 2-3 years from now, which means Six Flags effectively was acquired. That’s probably a good thing for the amusement park industry overall.

[@ChampaBayBeast]

Bingo!

[@Bnizzofashizzo]

Absolutely

[@Skibble.]

Cedar fair usually shuns its smaller parks

[@llucero94]

Fun fact: That DC/Marvel merger you mentioned really came close to happening. Twice.

[@jessr1698]

Don’t forget the Amalgam verse

[@matthewmoore8270]

If no one else has said this yet, thanks for dumbing this down for those of us that felt on the fence and uncertain about this to feel comfortable and look forward to this with hope that it will benefit everyone. I say this sincerely and don't want this to be taken in any negative way. The Sea World/Busch Gardens/Sesame Place comparison shows that the Six Flags and Cedar Fair brands that we may know and love could still exist very similarly while maintaining their current identities. Thank you!

[@andrewdubose9968]

In this “merger of equals,” Six Flags gets the name and stock ticker, but: Cedar Fair CEO Richard Zimmerman stays at the top, Cedar Fair unitholders control 51.2% of the new entity, finance and operations functions stay in Sandusky, and the new HQ is in Charlotte (closest park: Carowinds).

[@ElToroRyan]

Six Flags corporate had almost nothing left actually. I believe most had been laid off in a cleansing effort to minimize the company. This was also at the park level where many higher level positions were just axed. It seems Six Flags has been working towards this merger for a while

[@jacobsekela8691]

In all my years of covering this industry, I would've NEVER thought of this happening - but now it's here, and it's real. Very, very concerned by this merger. However, I can't help but think that this massive move was made in order to counter some insane further expansion by Universal and Disney - almost to keep Cedar Fair's and Six Flags' hold on their market share for fear of it being eventually overtaken by them.

[@santwashere]

Universal is expanding at a pretty rapid rate for their standards, the new theme park in Orlando opening in 2025, the new theme park in Texas opening in 2026, and the permanent horror nights style attraction at Area 15 in Las Vegas... so you are not that far off here

[@supremefan]

@@santwashereI - I honestly think Comcast is gonna do a large pivot and focus on theme parks if the economy keeps supporting it. They took what Imagineers started long ago and are running wild with success in my opinion since Disney dropped the ball. Not sure if Disney can do much as their spent money doesn't seem to go as far and takes 3x as long to get accomplished.

[@puccipower]

Yeah this makes total sense to me. And in that regard, I support the merger if it means further investment opportunities and competition with universal and Disney.

[@psychopompinc.646]

@@santwashere There is also talk of Epic Universe Beijing. Not confirmed yet, but it wouldn't be surprising because Universal Studios Bejing is incredibly popular already.

[@iamcuttlefish]

​@@puccipowersucks that we have to accept a second monopoly to fight the other monopoly

[@TonyKimtheamusementparkfan]

Wow McLovin, our boy worked for Cedar Fair for 2 years? Wow, he's someone that we really should trust in terms of their internal business strategies and overall financial analysis~~ Honestly, the analysis that he did, combined with Ryan's very informative things he said within the video makes this the best video to describe the situation between Cedar Fair and Six Flags. In my opinion, no other videos can really compare.

[@supremefan]

Was the most insightful one I've seen so far.

[@TonyKimtheamusementparkfan]

@@supremefan After watching this, it makes more sense why Cedar Fair and Six Flags did this. Most videos I see are targeting that one bought the other, but that's not a merger, that's not how it works with a merger all the time. It's a business strategy to use experience that both chains have in different areas of expertise in addition to resources, and enhance the guest experience using those. Cedar Fair has expertise in some, and Six Flags in others, so it benefits both sides altogether. Overall, I never saw this coming, and previously thought that Cedar Fair is in the most stable condition, which I still think is a bit of the case since Six Flags I think is in a worse shape in terms of management and overall company condition, but I am eager to see what kind of changes we will see once the merger is 100% complete and in full force. I hope both Cedar Fair and Six Flags can take advantage of the merger and help to stable their condition.

[@nexpro6118]

Even a half way decent business owner would NOT take ALL of the extra 200 million in new cash flow/revenue stream and the cash savings on jobs being able to be cut with the administrative positions/divisions of the 2 companies now combining and put it(the new/extra 200 million) back into investments. Lol 😂....at best, 25% (maybe 30% and that's me being super optimistic) will be reinvested back into the parks. If ALL of the extra/new money was used to invest back into the parks, it wouldn't benefit the company as a whole financially and definitely wouldn't benefit the shareholders AT ALL!!! When a publicly traded company and or even a Corporation company has shares, having a good amount of new/extra revenue/money, causes the price of the shared to go up! That's a good thing haha. Investing ALL of the 200 million could actually cause the price of the shares to go down!!! ....because there's no guarantee that the massive investment will pay off in the long run AND it leaves banks more worried about the company being able to pay off its debts AND the banks could have little to no confidence in the company any longer and can pull and or deny future funding/loans....which then will cause the share price to go down even more...

[@Jawon789]

I swear cedar fair is still salty that kingda ka took top thrill dragster’s record, so cedar fair merged to say they operate the tallest coaster in the world 💀

[@busfan9874]

Yeah. And I thought Kingda Ka wouldn't get the TT2 treatment. But now after the merger it may happen.

[@beanfresh09]

that doesn't even make sense lol

[@Mythyval]

Except it will be another Six Flags coaster soon-Falcon’s Flight.

[@praetorian1877]

Haha I love this comment!

[@virginiacapitalcoasters7033]

I would like this comment, but I want it to stay at 69 likes

[@WHOOOOOOOOCARES]

Can’t believe SixFlags and Cedar Fair just merged into the biggest Blockzone in North America.

[@mclovin7440]

One thing i want to add is a response to people stating "the merger eliminates competition so we will be seeing massive ticket hikes." While this is a valid concern as most mergers tend to lead to this, Six Flags already tried an immense ticket price increase strategy under Selim in 2022. And it failed. Horrifically. The parks were losing more money from the lower attendance than they were gaining from higher ticket prices, hence why Selim walked it back. If people felt priced out of their local park, most didnt go to their nearest Cedar Fair park, which could be many, many hours away for some markets. They found other ways to entertain themselves during the summer. The same thing will happen if Cedar Flags creates massive price increases all at once. Again, from the guests perspective, this merger wont mean anything in terms of their purchasing power.

[@triple7marc]

I think the point is that under the new management, the parks will actually receive significant investment to where the price hikes will be justified.

[@PourLeCorps]

If anything, the competition is greater now than it ever was before. While before Cedar Fair and Six Flags could only compete with each other, this merger allows them to now compete in a larger playing field with names like Disney and Universal, and even Herschend.

[@dvferyance]

There are still other theme parks that aren't owned by either company like Dollywood, Holiday World, Hersheypark ect but yeah most are owned by either one or the other. I do think this is a very bad idea.

[@texaswunderkind]

They aren't merging because they want to be LESS profitable.

[@HiCaballo]

People act like they’re the only 2 gas stations on a busy street corner. When they’re more often likened to a gas station in a remote area, or by the freeway with few competitors. If they are however on that busy corner then Universal, Disney and/or Seaworld got a spot too.

[@ncg195]

This video has served to alleviate a lot of my anxieties over this merger. There are still plenty of things that could go wrong, but, if Ryan is optimistic, then I will be too. He hasn't steered me wrong yet.

[@ElToroRyan]

There’s still certainly things to be slightly concerned over, but as long as the new Six Flags company executes as they promise in the press release, I imagine things should go well

[@wendyokoopa7048]

I'm still guarded. I went to Wonderland this summer first time back since paramount and had a blast. Yes that is me shortly before boarding the 🐉. Anyways single rider policies unexplainable single rider policies need to continue Sf has never been good at that. Cedar Fair ruled with it. Feeling safe really enhanced my enjoyment and why I felt comfortable spontaneously going on beast. I Almost had to explain at Backlot but she just said go.

[@jaystarr6571]

@@ElToroRyan It makes it easier for Di$ney to come in and purchase everything in a few years.

[@wendyokoopa7048]

​@@jaystarr6571I hope not. Disney destroys everything it touches

[@MrJohnJLewis]

As a low level enthusiast, my number one concern is the well being of Cedar Point. That's the one place I consistently visit on a yearly basis, and don't want anything bad to happen to the park. My biggest complaint is not creating a new name, like Cedar Flags. Because people who don't read past the headlines will assume that Six Flags bought out Cedar Fair and we know that's not what happened

[@Raptorman0205]

I doubt Cedar Point will change much if at all. Like, you may get "a Six Flags park" tagged under Cedar Point's nameplate, and that's it. There's no reason to mess with a park that is one of the premiere attractions of the entire lineup, both pre and post merger, especially given the main motive is to fix their debt situation. Why screw up a reliable cash flow? The merger is more likely to affect under performing parks more than anything.

[@sirbossk]

All I want from this merger is for them to keep the identities of the Cedar Fair parks separate from the Six Flags brands, especially the ones with a stronger identity like Cedar Point, Kings Island, and my home park Knott's Berry Farm. After thinking about this merger a bit and watching this and a few other video analyses, I'm feeling reasonably okay about how it will affect the parks/concerns about competition. In fact, if Cedar Fair will truly be the ones running the show and their investment strategy is used, this could actually be the best thing to happen to good old dumpy Six Flags Magic Mountain in a while. But please just keep the park identities intact and don't go crazy with the Six Flags branding. Hopefully with Cedar Fair seeming to be more in charge of things, that could be the case. If they managed to remove the SF name from the current SF parks, that would be a welcome bonus (imagine if it went back to being just "Magic Mountain"!) But I'm not getting my hopes up there. But please just keep the CF names intact.

[@nexpro6118]

Everything west of the Mississippi, Six Flags Brand Name is much bigger and draws more advertising money/opportunities compared to the Cedar Fair name. I will admit that the Cedar Fair name is bigger than the Six Flags on the east coast. Good example of this is the fast food chain, Carl's Junior. It's called Carl's Junior, everywhere west of the middle of Texas and it's called Hardeys, everywhere east of the middle of Texas. Certain areas of the US, branding is so different and the type of population that's in certain areas identify with brands/brand names way different.

[@danthecoasterman22]

McLovin put in the WORK when the news broke. He texted me his dissertation at 11am the same morning. Get him on the payroll ❗️

[@tryan4242]

Very good breakdown, but generally the consumer gets screwed when major players merge.

[@SteveAddeo]

💯

[@texaswunderkind]

The whole point of free market capitalism is that competition forces companies to be lean and efficient. Monopolies are bad for everyone.

[@nexpro6118]

How so? I'd argue that ALL of the shareholders gain A TON!!! As you put it, the consumer gets screwed..... how and why do they get screwed?

[@Skip6235]

I appreciate your and McLovin’s insight on the merger. I concede that you are far more knowledgeable about both company mergers and amusement parks than I’ll ever be. That being said, I am a bit wary, as a lot of your arguments about competition being not an issue due to the regional nature of the parks could have been applied to ski resorts out west. And yet, in the past decade, we’ve seen Vail Resorts gobble up a ton of resorts and have pushed prices of lift tickets astronomically high, especially for single-day passes, trying to get people to get their all-resort season passes, as well as a lack of investment in any one particular resort and focusing more on cost savings. I worry that the new Six Flags/Cedar Fair may go down a similar path, and that worries me.

[@PourLeCorps]

If anything, the competition is greater now than it ever was before. While before Cedar Fair and Six Flags could only compete with each other, this merger allows them to now compete in a larger playing field with names like Disney and Universal, and even Herschend.

[@mcmadness110]

I’m not sure ski resorts are comparable with the situation as many people travel from around the country to go to ski resorts, but most people don’t do that for regional theme parks.

[@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102]

@@mcmadness110 Plus, many Vail Resorts ski areas on the I-70 corridor compete with one another for skiers.

[@nexpro6118]

Well...any half brained business owner wouldn't always put focus/priority on investments back into the company/parks and choosing to focus on savings is at times needed and the best thing to do....now...the consumer will cry and complain because the consumer is only worried about themselves in the immediate/short term....almost 100000% of the time, when a company is in MASSIVE debt, it should and better put tons of focus on cost cutting and savings amlnywhere possible and doing so at just about all cost because when the banks see that the company that said banks have invested in/given massive loans to is putting money back into the parks/investing in itself and or the parks, the banks will lose confidence and pull the loans and or call in those loans and certainly won't give loans in the future(which is really bad because even when a business is doing very well financially, the company should and most still go to the banks for massive loans to invest into itself/grow/improve/expand because a company should NEVER use its profits as the way to grow and or invest in itself) doing so causes the company/parks to now have no cash when the market is bad/falls/economy falls and or a bad expansion/investment went bad. Also, the price of the shares go way down when a company isn't paying down its debts, especially when the company is spending/investing money it should be using to pay off its debts so that way they can still borrow large sums of cash to expand/invest/improve/build more rides. When in MASSIVE debt, company needs to get its finances together and cut costs and cut staff when they can and try to look for new/other revenue streams without needing to spend/build anything new until the company is bad on its financial feet to be able to then start doing big things to its company/parks that will benefit the consumer, not just in the immediate but also in the future as well and also benefit their shareholders because most people don't know this but....there's corporation by-laws/laws/rules to where the company MUST and HAS to put ALL of its shareholders best interest FIRST....not a guest who just wants a new ride next year they can go on(even if it causes the park to close 2 to 3 years later) lol 😂

[@FrothingFanboy]

Whew, Cedar Fair has a (slim) majority share, that's reassuring.

[@MichaelRei99]

But the Six Flags name is more valuable which is reassuring!

[@JD-rox]

@@MichaelRei99to most coaster enthusiasts, six flags kinda puts a bad taste in my mouth and I would have preferred if Cedar Fair’s name stayed. However, Six Flags is more recognizable to the average person

[@Clay3613]

@@MichaelRei99 The Six Flags name has been garbage since the early 2000s.

[@jberczi6]

EBITDA pronunciation is revolutionary

[@xcoasterenthusiast]

They better bring back Jim Reid Anderson just to do announcement videos for the Six Flags/Cedar Fair parks

[@mitchellries256]

I think this was a good move for both companies. We've seen similar success in 2017 when Bass Pro Shops acquired Cabela's, and I can see Six Flags learn a lot from Cedar Fair such as better operations, improvements in cleanliness and atmosphere, and less ride closures.

[@nexpro6118]

Bass and Cabelas is such a weird example to go with....those 2 companies are much smaller than Cedar and Flags lol. Also, the amount of investment and just regular operating costs is SO MUCH higher for Cedar and Flags....theme parks don't have multiple revenue streams like Bass and Cabelas have.....example of that, people can't order a roller coaster to ride on haha. Also, Cedar and Flags can't down size a location and still be able to have the same amount of revenue .....when and if a parks location is downsized.....rides have to be removed (that costs A TON) that the park(s) weren't able to see its full financial return on and causes a MASSIVE dive in amount of guests that can visit. Most retail stores can actually shrink down to a small storefront but STILL have the same amount of sales....it's the way that market/business can operate, especially since covid. More poeple now than ever shop online. Parks can only sell merchandise online (99.9% of the time, for the most part) you should have used the merger of, Time Warner and Turner, back in 1996. That merger ruined Turner but Time Warner gained so much from it.

[@timbeam00]

My current biggest fear of this merger is the potential for MORE DC theming. Like you said, Id like to see SF scale that back, but theyve only added more and more to their parks over the years and now we may see it in CF parks

[@nexpro6118]

DC theming would be great right now....the amount of Ad revenue the parks could get from DC theming with the naming rights for advertising at the parks would help bring in a new MASSIVE revenue stream without it costing Cedar Fair/Six Flags a dime...obviously A TON of debt needs to be paid if any of the parks will be able to expand/improve, since the company(s) get the big loans from the banks to build new rides and to expand and improve the park(s) any good business, especially big ones, NEVER uses its own profits/cash flow to build new rides/investments and gets loans to do those things, that way the company(s) always have a reserve cash amount and allows the shared price to do well and go up and than allows the park(s) to gain more confidence from the banks to be able to get even bigger loans/funding for MASSIVE expansions in the future. I never can understand why so many people(especially when they have zero business experience/successful experience) tell companies what and how they need to be doing lol. The consumer always is just thinking about themselves and what they want right now, while the company(s) need and have to worry about 10 to 20 years from now.....what's more ironic is that when a park(s) fail and or close, than all of these people come out and say how the company(s)/park(s) should have been smart with their money and should have thought about the future lol 😂

[@benwinegarner4797]

100% spot on. McLovin knows what he's talking about and so do you. This is a profitability and sustainability play. I am with you. This isn't something I was expecting or hoping to happen, but looking at the data it just makes sense and I can't wait for a single season pass system. I live in central Iowa and I'm surrounded by both Cedar Fair and Six Flags parks. With 1 season pass it opens up road trip possibilities to just about any of them. Great video and financial breakdown of this merger.

[@TheNinjaDC]

I feel Cedar Fair is in charge, but Six Flags parks are the winners. A lot of their parks already have a great foundation, but are let down by abysmal management (like Magic Mountain & Over Georgia). This will inject them with proper management, and infrastructure overhauls. Unfortunately, I worry about CF big five parks (CP, KI, CW, Carowinds, Knotts) as they were lined up to get major investments and focus under CF new plan. KI & CW in particular seemed lined up for major investments (infrastructure, rides, resort facilities). Carowinds & Cedar Point had that extra focus the last decade with large projects like new front entrances, new large indoor dinning facilities, and new hotel accommodations amongst adding the two best coaster's in the chain. However, this new merger will likely scrap those plans as a lot of the company's attention is focused on bringing up the Six Flags parks to Cedar Fair standards (at least for the next 5 years or so). Big projects in the works, but not inked in a contract yet like Vortex's replacement likely had their budget reduced. Instead of getting a $25-30 million investment like a record breaking extreme spinner, KI's Vortex will be replaced by a $15-20 million mid tier Vekoma or mini B&M Dive.

[@Johnnyiswhere]

I think the CF leadership can walk and chew gum at the same time. I have more faith in them than you do

[@David51295]

It is sad as a Canadian six flags worst park is la ronde so it seems like they don’t even care about wonderland

[@summermazur3064]

I agree. CP already isn't being given the attention it used to have what with Cedar Fair focusing more on Kings Island and Carowinds lately. Now, even more Six Flags parks will be given precedence. None of these other parks have the long and rich history of CP, and it irritates me that it's becoming lost in a sea of younger parks. I miss the CP of my childhood, in the '90s.

[@Johnnyiswhere]

@@summermazur3064 CF just opened a major hotel, restaurant and new area. A much larger investment than anything at Kings Island. Not sure what you mean? You guys have been spoiled since forever

[@summermazur3064]

@@Johnnyiswhere There were lots of management things I saw on my 2023 trip that didn't please me. That's what I was referring to.

[@ckilbarger01]

So just two powerful companies working towards a full monopoly..... I just hope this means good things for customers

[@Skip6235]

Monopolies are never good for customers

[@matthewmoore8270]

In terms of individual areas with these parks and the total overall value, this is also far from a monopoly when standing up to Disney and Universal.

[@kentslocum]

How did I not hear about this? This is earth-shattering news! A single pass to rule them all!

[@boganpainter1638]

I am not nearly as optimistic about this merger. For starters, the synergies are never as good as projected. I believe there will be far less spent per park on improvements. Mainly due to less competition. This will result in less innovation. The prospect of a single annual pass that can unlock all the parks in both portfolios is appealing, but we will have to wait and see what that looks like and how great of a value it turns out to be.

[@Mister_Brown]

they really don't compete except in SF LA DC and NJ in LA they are both competing against disney and universal in SF they're closing one of the parks anyway in like 8 years and honestly both parks are smaller than you'd expect for the population they serve in NJ they're competing against nickelodeon, ocean city, coney island, and hershey in different directions kings dominion competes against busch gardens williamsburg sfa competes against hershey it's only 10 miles further to hershey from sfa as it is to kings dominion

[@TJHistory]

Disney/Universal is a completely different model and frankly is not a competitor. @@Mister_Brown

[@Mister_Brown]

@@TJHistory not really, knotts competes directly against disneyland i agree disney world and most other disney properties are not competitors to most cedar fair properties but historically and currently they are in direct competion in LA

[@nexpro6118]

They have cost savings and cost cuttings coming in the next few years....have to....can't keep the shareholders happy and share prices up by not paying down debts and by not being able to get/have a revenue steam of new cash and certainly can't do those things while expanding and or building new rides....banks need to have confidence in the company(s)/parks to be able to fund/loan them the money when it's time to expand/build more/new rides. Banks won't do that when they arnt getting their money back, especially seeing the company(s)/parks spending more cash and building new shit lol

[@nexpro6118]

Also.....any half brained business owner wouldn't always put focus/priority on investments back into the company/parks and choosing to focus on savings is at times needed and the best thing to do....now...the consumer will cry and complain because the consumer is only worried about themselves in the immediate/short term....almost 100000% of the time, when a company is in MASSIVE debt, it should and better put tons of focus on cost cutting and savings amlnywhere possible and doing so at just about all cost because when the banks see that the company that said banks have invested in/given massive loans to is putting money back into the parks/investing in itself and or the parks, the banks will lose confidence and pull the loans and or call in those loans and certainly won't give loans in the future(which is really bad because even when a business is doing very well financially, the company should and most still go to the banks for massive loans to invest into itself/grow/improve/expand because a company should NEVER use its profits as the way to grow and or invest in itself) doing so causes the company/parks to now have no cash when the market is bad/falls/economy falls and or a bad expansion/investment went bad. Also, the price of the shares go way down when a company isn't paying down its debts, especially when the company is spending/investing money it should be using to pay off its debts so that way they can still borrow large sums of cash to expand/invest/improve/build more rides. When in MASSIVE debt, company needs to get its finances together and cut costs and cut staff when they can and try to look for new/other revenue streams without needing to spend/build anything new until the company is bad on its financial feet to be able to then start doing big things to its company/parks that will benefit the consumer, not just in the immediate but also in the future as well and also benefit their shareholders because most people don't know this but....there's corporation by-laws/laws/rules to where the company MUST and HAS to put ALL of its shareholders best interest FIRST....not a guest who just wants a new ride next year they can go on(even if it causes the park to close 2 to 3 years later) lol 😂

[@sarinasmith8398]

I wasn’t ready to make a decision on how I felt about the merger until Ryan made a video. Thanks for making the complicated things so easy to understand, and shout out to McLovin for his hard work as well!

[@greghaus]

I've watched a ton of reaction / explanation videos regarding this shocking announcement, and this might be the best so far. I'm glad you took the time to make sure it was informative and not just some "hot take". I always appreciate your silly content, but you also shine when it comes to educational and analytical content as well.

[@praetorian1877]

The weather component is a very interesting point!

[@denimadept]

I was against the idea, but you and McLovin convinced me.

[@mamamo9435]

This merge is a win win situation not just for both companies but for the park guests as well! I can’t wait to see what they have in store for us in the coming years!

[@nexpro6118]

They have cost savings and cost cuttings coming in the next few years....have to....can't keep the shareholders happy and share prices up by not paying down debts and by not being able to get/have a revenue steam of new cash and certainly can't do those things while expanding and or building new rides....banks need to have confidence in the company(s)/parks to be able to fund/loan them the money when it's time to expand/build more/new rides. Banks won't do that when they arnt getting their money back, especially seeing the company(s)/parks spending more cash and building new shit lol

[@helenllama]

Could you see a joint, multi day ticket combo for Knotts and Magic Mountain come out for sale on the international market?

[@Kilbaneisking]

I'm in the wait and see category. I see alot of cool things that could come from this, but I also see why some are concerned. I personally look forward to the future of the company and am hopeful that this brings very positive results!

[@bigmac85987]

Cedar Point has always been my home park growing up and living in Columbus and Cleveland Ohio. Since the announcement, I’ve had a lingering pit in my stomach but kept thinking I just need to wait for ElToroRyan’s take on the merger. Thank you for coming through with the video I needed, and thanks to McLovin for the added gravitas and expertise! My heart, mind, and stomach are now at ease.

[@desmond1664]

My heart mind and stomach are now at ease too😃

[@TrueLies23]

I wouldn't be at ease so much. With the aging coaster collection it is very possible that the new "guests are a number" way CF has been running, they'll view other less developed parks as better ways to spend dollars and increase draw while a larger park like CP brings in money with modest additions and slow, steady improvements and changes as it is one of their "destination parks" I can think of about 15 parks in the combined portfolio that could build a giga/hyper/multi-launch and increase attendance by a substantial margin. I'm concerned that we are on an accelerating downswing from the peak of CP. The upside is that most parks would need 1-200 million in investment in the least to compete with the vacation package CP can offer to anyone. Between the lodging, activities in and out of park, and proximity to their indoor water park, CP is wayyyy ahead. Here's to a hopeful future!l for CP

[@cjt217]

This was the only opinion I was waiting to hear tbh. Shout out to McLovin, as well

[@JosiahStuart]

I also noticed that with this merger, Six Flags Great America and California’s Great America will be under the same ownership for the first time since 1984.

[@zchovan]

Personally, I've become more and more OK with this merger with time. However, the complete loss of the "Cedar Fair" branding is something I'm sad about. I know most people know Six Flags as a company and not Cedar Fair, but the historical importance of Cedar Point/Valley Fair/Cedar Fair hopefully won't be lost in this massive merger. I wish the parent company was called something like....Cedar Flags (I know, terrible), or something to remember the Cedar Fair naming. 100 years from now, at Cedar Point's 250th anniversary, I hope the people of the time don't know it as a Six Flags Park and nothing else, despite that it will probably always be called Cedar Point, with or without "Six Flags" in the name.

[@technoandrew]

This video really helps to explain the benefits of the merger, so thanks Ryan and McLovin. Supplemented of course with lots of gorgeous coaster footage throughout the video. Made me chuckle that it ended with someone getting a zen ride on Leviathan. :D

[@wendyokoopa7048]

Not the same but I found wilde beast extremely relaxing front row.

[@mikemett1038]

I think what this really means is in the proposed new company six flags would be responsible for the 48% of your visit that sux and ceder fair will be responsible for the rest 😂

[@MichaelRei99]

😂

[@Skip6235]

“Every region of North America” Cries in Pacific Northwest 😢

[@ElToroRyan]

My deepest condolences!

[@FartNoodle22]

Used to live there. Coaster enthusiast hel-

[@LegendaryCollektor]

I just learned this was happening. Im local to Hershey and Ive always sung the woes of dorney park being suck between great adventure and hersheypark. Funny now that dorney and sfga will be together. This might bring some love to dorney finally. Ill keep an eye on this. One mega pass for all these parks? That just sounds amazing.

[@EnoughRhetoric]

Excellent analysis. And for me, having not purchased seasonal passes this past year for my family and I, I’m think once there’s a combined offering I just might. Having more options means a lot so even though it’ll cost more per pass, the return over a year is far greater.

[@madeintexas3d442]

It was crazy. I have been to my local six flags 60 times this season and from the time the opened until now fright fest has been the busiest I have seen the park. I would ride rides over and over and it was just as bad as after covid. During fright fest it took an hour and a half to park and enter the gates. I was glad to see it busy because this summer really had me worried for the parks future.

[@bserpas]

This was definitely the case at Magic Mountain. I visited 3 different occasions for fright fest and the weeks before Conjuring and Saw opened it it was nearly empty just like past fright fests. The 2 subsequent visits with those mazes opened made it the most busiest visit outside of summer on a Saturday or Sunday

[@FunkAndFluff]

Easily the most insightful input on this subject I've seen so far. McLovin is a heckin' champ.

[@supremefan]

I pay $13/month for a family of 4 for Six Flags Gold + - They gave insane discounts in the past when you didn't renew then didn't accept the 1st discounted offer they sent a 2nd. They know the power of a family.

[@jimbla9921]

Great video, I definitely see the Cedar Fair management style bring further stability for the Six Flags parks. Not a fan of the use of IP but having Knott's as my home park, the Peanuts are not a over-powering element to the park, but more as a compliment. Sure retain the Looney Toons IP at the original Six Flags parks but don't combine Peanuts and Loney Toons at the same parks. I'd like to see Cedar Flags lean into the regional or historic aspects of each of these parks locations and improve the theming environment of each park.

[@nixon2tube]

I hope you're right, Ryan, but in my experience, in every merger I've ever seen, one axiom always holds true: The shittier companies policies always win. In this case, I can see Six Flag craptastic maintenance (Worlds of Adventure convinced us to never visit another 6 Flags park due to this, and the numerous news stories saying similar things didn't exactly encourage us to change our minds) and idiotic park purchase decision (How many parks can you buy before you die!), combined with Cedar Fairs ride operation stinginess. (Operating Steel Vengeance with one coaster is NOT acceptable!) and pricing themselves into oblivion. Now in favor of this, you are right that the logistics strongly favor this merger, and if they can buck the trends I listed above, they could leverage this into a really great thing. I just don't think that they will. Executives rarely love what their companies do. They just think in terms of $$, and for amusement parks, this is just not the best mindset.

[@NutsAndThighs]

History shows us mergers generally don't benefit the consumer, sometimes it doesn't even benefit the shareholders of one of the companies being merged/consumed by the other either (example: if Cedar Fair is overwhelmed by the accumulation of Six Flags debt and park scale). All mergers mean as you allude to is that now instead of two companies nickel and diming consumers, you have one mega-organized company doing it on a massive scale. The leadership will simply look at the cheapest strategies employed, whether inherited from CF or Six Flags, and go with that. Less competition has never worked to the benefit of the consumer, it's entirely for shareholders.

[@texaswunderkind]

@@NutsAndThighs Exactly. Look at mergers in cellphone providers, airlines, banks, or anything else and show me where consumers were better off. There are going to be all sorts of new memberships to get certain benefits, while hidden fees and reduced benefits appear everywhere.

[@nexpro6118]

Ummmm a company/business is in business for money...wtf are you talking about lol 😂 how poeple should have companies just for the reason to satisfy the people that want the immediate return/happiness from it with having zero responsibility and zero at stake lol 😂 I've never heard/seen a business go "we started this business/were in business/I'm in business to not make money and to not worry about it and to not worry about being able to still be in business 20 years from now lol 😂

[@agffth]

Very well done. A lot of good info that explains things from a business standpoint. Awesome job with this video. Buy that guy another case of White Castle!

[@grahfkarate1799]

kings island has been my home park until the past 3 years. Now Great America Chicago is. I hope to god Cedar fair teaches Six flags how to run their parks

[@TPLS2]

Yeah all I see from this is a monopoly where they’re the biggest two companies and now six flags gets to claim having the most coasters ever being able to jack the prices up to make up for their merge.

[@Johnnyiswhere]

Good. Better clientele and less of a teen hangout

[@chaseism]

This was really helpful in calming some of my fears in terms of this deal. I think I only have two issues. First, while Six Flags and Cedar Fair don't compete directly with each other, that doesn't change the fact that they compete with smaller chains and independents. Now you have a behemoth of an operator in this new company and smaller parks can't stand up to that. Second, we know Cedar Fair, traditionally, doesn't work with certain manufacturers. What does that mean for the likes of Intamin and even RMC? Six Flags didn't seem to have an issue working with newer companies or at least ones doing things a bit different. Cedar Fair, not so much.

[@garminkid]

I never realized it before you said it. We might actually get gigas at the big Six Flags parks!

[@jeremytrott882]

when the news dropped, I didn't bother looking into it and just waited for your video. thanks king

[@emmanuelanderson788]

This was by far the best video made on this topic yet. No doom and gloom, biased opinions just facts. Great job with the video!

[@Firesliggles]

As long as Afterburn doesn't become Batman the Ride, and Intimidator doesn't become Goliath or Superman, seems a-okay by me. Good analysis

[@mabus42]

FWIW, I think we will see the combined company shedding at least a few parks here (Michigan's Adventure, anyone?). This could, in theory, open up opportunities for other operators to come in and create a viable competitor at scale. I'm thinking companies such as Premier Parks, Herschend or Compagnie des Alpes among others. The newly combined SF/CF isn't competing with Universal or Disney, but they are competing against the regional parks. Although I live roughly equidistant from Cedar Point, Kings Island and SF Great America, we always go to the CF parks - so I certainly hope that what makes the CF parks so special is incorporated into the SF properties.

[@floffycatto6475]

It's just wild to me to think that both Magic Mountain and Knott's will be the same company.

[@devinsigley517]

Can't wait for the Snoopy/Bugs Bunny crossover kiddie coaster

[@jasonkloos6348]

Woodstock vs Tweety Bird

[@Thelightning1out]

Hopefully cedar fair can fix most of magic mountains coasters

[@milazinnia]

As an LA resident, Magic Mountain _desperately_ needs some love. I haven't been to any other Six Flags parks yet but I hear Over Texas is in a similar state, which is not a good thing for two of your largest parks to have issues with! Especially the area up on the hill by Ninja and Superman, they use that area for a Fright Fest house because of "the ambience", it's so awful. The famous red Magic Mountain Tower is up there too, it used to have a mini-museum about the park and an observation deck, but it closed in 2011 because of "elevator regulations" and the whole area around it hasn't been touched since. Many of the ride entrances and queues need attention, some more than others but everything could get cleaned up and updated. It can't be just another "paint over it" fixup. Knott's could use a parkwide refresher too, it has a lot of rides both big and small that haven't changed in years (and not in a good way). There's a dated feel to it, in places where that's not intended, especially when most of the adults attending Knott's grew up going there, and experiencing nearly the exact same thing with only a few ride changes happening. Also Knott's is kinda boring for me lol, I'm so used to the extreme options at Magic Mountain that I'm disappointed with everything else besides Xcelerator and kinda for GhostRider in the back car, but that's about it. The selection reminds me of Hersheypark's collection, but without the more extreme (or unique) options like SkyRush, Fahrenheit or Wildcat. I think half of the dated and boring Ghost Town section could help place a new western-themed big coaster, like a slightly longer version of Full Throttle, with three launches. Call it "Lasso" lol. But Knott's I think would attract more crowds if they spiced things up from what it is now, like adding some super fun shit and taking away shit that only grandparents care about atp. They do a bunch of other cool shit though, like the railcar ride with the bandit actors, some activity with and related to Native Americans, like a crafting thing but it's legitimate.

[@samplautz5586]

One thing that they mentioned as a resin for merging is so that they can try to take on Disney and Universal. To me, that’s ridiculous. They are not in competition with eachother, and serve completely different markets. Six Flags will never be a competitor to the Florida parks, so why they think they can even come close, I have no idea

[@chasehathorne8027]

As a huge Great Adventure fanboy (not even my home park SFNE is) I’m so excited for this. The only thing holding Great Adventure back from being one of the best regional parks in the country is the fact Six Flags has spent years neglecting its appearance to the point the place looks like a run down dump in a lot of spots. Hopefully with Cedar Fair’s influence they really spruce up the park. They have the coaster lineup, they have the safari, their flat ride lineup is in a much better spot than it was 10-12 years ago, and the operations blow every other Six Flags park out of the water, it’s so close to being the perfect park.

[@GalcianBTH]

Feel the same. I also have SFNE as nearest park. I feel like Six Flags NJ will get the same treatment you see KI, CP, and Carrowinds get.

[@MichaelRei99]

And the food needs to be upgraded!

[@Johnnyiswhere]

Same with Magic Mountain. Both parks were two of the best in the country until Jim Reid Anderson got his greedy hands on them

[@ave0828]

​​@@GalcianBTHMajority of those parks will get that treatment. Imagine every Six Flags park ran like a Cedar Fair park.

[@GalcianBTH]

@aveeee0828 Some parks will do better than others, I think. Parks close to other large Cedar Fair parks could see things go poorly. especially the smaller Six Flags parks.

[@alantrotter2077]

A few observations. I have background in Accounting and Finance but not in the Amusement Industry. I think a lot of what is happening makes sense. From a financial perspective I completely get what is going with this merger. I think the 4 Execs are going into the correct roles. Selim was never going to solve the day to day at Six Flags. That just isn't his background but sometimes organizations bring in CEO's to get the company to this spot where either it gets acquired, acquires another company, or merges with another company. I think Selim was that guy. Selim is going be over the board and help them lead where the strategic direction is for the company. I think Zimmerman and the Cedar Fair side is frankly better to run the day to day operations. I prefer Cedar Fair's approach on operations overall. They run more trains, seem to have less ride closures, and the park is generally in better condition overall. I'm looking forward to a combined pass as I visit a fair amount of parks.

[@kirblar]

The regional aspect you mention is why "unit banking" ended up disastrous for the states that implemented it, as forcing banks to have only one branch would cripple them when their local regional housing market crashed. The major banks in Canada, which are all national, all weathered the great recession in large part because they were national, while regional/localized US banks were crippled by specific housing markets going under.

[@wrestlingandamusementparkl7789]

It’s gonna be interesting down the line. I can see Ceder fair parks using fright fest and holiday in the park names. But also see six flags get stuff like grande carnival. As well as Maby stuff like October fest and Maby other stuff like that

[@viphxx3442]

I do believe this was to pay off debts, but I also believe this merger is a barrier to stopping the much richer parks like SeaWorld, Disney, and Universal from dominating the market.

[@nexpro6118]

This doesn't pay off debts....this makes it to where debts can be delayed and dents can be transferred to other divisions/areas to prop up other areas of the company to keep share price up and to keep the credit rating up so that the park(s) can continue to get funding/loans from the banks to build and for other things

[@Trevendor]

I was literally saying that starting next year I wanted to branch out and do more theme parks. Been an avid Cedar Point goer for YEARS and seeing your videos on the 6 flags rides made me want to check them out. Now that dream is closer to a reality, cannot WAIT for that combined season pass!

[@SlackerWannaB]

I don’t think that is coming until 2025 season.

[@fatherandsonbaseball]

I am actually really excited about this. I’ve got to get back to a six flags park, it’s been a while.

[@DLXRY2]

Their huge mistake is not being transparent about passes. This is going to drastically bring down sales of passes because people do not know how soon it will be until it is all one pass. Why they released such little information on that astounds me.

[@coasthuder]

What is Irock?

[@jefflong1799]

Cedar Fair started the coaster wars (with Magnum), had the first Strata, and has one of the only and one of the best (and one of the first) Giga's (Millie), started a trend with Maverick, Fury 325, multiple dives, The Beast, the first coaster over 65 feet (Blue Streak) etc., etc....how anyone would THINK, CF "needs" 6F is freakin' beyond anyone.

[@Johnnyiswhere]

What are you talking about ? lol

[@jefflong1799]

@@Johnnyiswhere You must be an election denier too, lolol...

[@Johnnyiswhere]

@@jefflong1799 you're getting weirder with every post. Are you drunk?

[@jrowlet]

​@@jefflong1799Is there any non-political comment board where people will not find a way to somehow bring up politics?

[@oceanthresher6184]

A lot of talk about competition without seeing it from this perspective: just because there’s less competition in the thrill ride industry doesn’t mean the industry itself doesn’t have competitors. CF and SF still have to compete with other forms of entertainment like concerts and sporting events, and that isn’t changing with this merger.

[@readysetgo888]

Excellent analysis. Thank you Ryan (and McLovin) for being sensible about this, explaining the reasons why it makes sense, and combatting the overreactive doom and gloom.

[@jordydejong3376]

Thank you , amazing video (as always) The first KZbin video about this topic that i have seen where someone has actually done there research and also looked up and explained about the financial importance of this merger. Was kinda getting very frustrated with all the other vids about this topic by all the other coaster tubers, them not doing there research and completely skipping over the business side of this merger. So again thank u very much for your time and effort making this vid!

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

The merger doesn't give then more time to refinance notes, the due dates are the same. The notes were already going to be refinanced. FYI, Cedar Fair could have been paying down it's debt even more rapidly, they already paid all their debt taken out from the pandemic. They could have paid more down, but they chose to reinstate their dividend of $1.20/yr(0.30 per quarter), which is $61M/yr. CF also did a 250M stock buy back from mid 2022 to April 2023 and authorized 250M more. Cedar Fair had a record FY 2022 in revenue (1.82B) and record net income(308M) and are essentially matching that in 2023. In contrast, SF hasn't had the free cash flow to reinstate their dividend post pandemic. They haven't the free cash flow to do 250M buy backs like Cedar Fair and they regressed to 2017 levels of revenue of 1.35B and net income of just 109M net income in FY2022, they are tracking to do just as poorly in FY2023. . Cedar Fair already had planned to get their leverage to 3.0, SF had no plan or a clue on their leverage. The divergence of the chains is stark, they had the same revenue pre pandemic of 1.4B and CF has exploded up since and SF gone down. SF had a completely clueless CEO in Selim with no experience in the industry and it showed

[@couch2558]

Im still nervous about the potential costs that could be transferred to us as the consumers. Cedar point was already hitting a little close to budget breaking, but i know in 2022 the costs for six flags great adventure was enough that we wouldn't be able to do it until i picked up a job and could chip in for it. My dad and i are both expecting it to not go well, though we would love to be surprised

[@VestedUTuber]

Honestly, this is going to depend on who ends up actually managing it. If Cedar Fair's management ends up sticking around, that's great news for everyone except Intamin. If it's Six Flags that takes over, on the other hand, that's a MASSIVE problem that could lead to the near collapse of the amusement park industry.

[@texaswunderkind]

Expect higher prices, fewer guest amenities, and overall poor experience. The two companies aren't merging because they want to offer MORE for LESS MONEY. Did you cell bill go down with all of these mega-mergers? According to JD Power, the average monthly cell phone bill per person is around $144. That is double or triple what people were paying ten years ago.

[@Aidanthewatermelon]

7:26 Him saying “Accelerate” with a video of xcelerator

[@RADZADproductions]

question is, will the cedar fair execs want to use IROC, or will we hopefully see Certified Safe implemented at the existing cedar fair parks

[@ElToroRyan]

I’m guessing they’ll want to use iROC. Apparently that move was done by Cedar Fair to better standardize the ops at all their parks, which were already a lot better than a good chunk of Six Flags parks. (Not Great Adventure as that has always had ops better than most Cedar Fair parks lol)

[@gabrieldally6044]

The only thing I didn't agree with is that you said that Six Flags had better brand names for their seasonal events. Knotts Scary Farm and Knotts Merry Farm, As well as Winterfest are iconic names

[@gabrieldally6044]

@@AmazedBunionKnott's scary farm is the original Halloween haunt and started in 1973. On the west coast it is a household name

[@gabrieldally6044]

@@AmazedBunion and it was probably made to you because you were expecting a magic mountain or cedar point experience when they are a theme park. People go there for live shows, food, and maybe the rides

[@Spike-sk7ql]

Honestly dont know how this is even going to go through without the word monopoly at least getting mentioned.

[@irocz11]

they look at total earnings when looking at monopolies and Disney and Universal are so far ahead of anyone else that Cedar Fair and Six Flags combined are still in third place in revenue.

[@Thec0nv1ct777]

I really need to go to magic mountain, i havent been there for like 10 years.

[@killwize]

omg the season pass angle..... just like in skiing... THE MEGA PASS!@ I GET IT NOW.

[@LostEndsStudio]

I think this is good because it opens up the pool of rides able to be moved from park to park. The merger documents specifically call out that a majority of guests are season pass holders. It also states that most guests visit just 1-2 parks. This means moving rides around the country can "refresh" a stale park with far less capital spent vs getting a whole new ride. Even if a ride is not brand new, if my home park doesn't have that ride, its new to me.

[@MagnoliaStreetTV]

I hope they drop the Flash Pass and adopt the Fast Lane system at all Six Flags parks.

[@soylentbob6725]

I still haven't picked up my jaw from the floor. I didn't think this would ever happen.

[@timk987]

Who will win the cola wars at the parks? Coke or Pepsi, and perhaps more importantly, will the paper cup option from the Cedar Fair drink plan be implemented at Six Flags or will everybody be dragging around the silly souvenir cups from ride to ride? these are the questions we need answered!

[@Clay3613]

I hope Pepsi, Coke's offering outside of Mr. Pibb and Mellow Yellow are D-tier compared to PepsiCo.

[@adv.withjerryandadrianna]

You have to admit some of these memes about coaster names are actually pretty funny though untrue

[@TheBanzaiCharge]

I wonder how this will impact Intimin considering Cedar Fair's non-existent relationship with them.

[@kirbysuperstaruhh3769]

Same but also with RMC who has a pretty good relationship with six flags but a no pun intended rocky relationship with CF

[@JediOfTheRepublic]

This is actually huge for south central Texas. If they do a combine season pass, not only will you be able to go to Fiesta Texas but also to Schlitterbahn. which is really up 35. That's pretty damn cool!

[@ericasarat1834]

My home park is Michigan's Adventure. Hopefully we will get some sort of large upgrade, as the most recent was the kids area and then thunderhawk which was relocated.

[@Greven64Staller]

The last time Cedar Fair had anything to do with Six Flags The Death of one of my favorite parks happened RIP Geauga Lake

[@1985Bugaboo]

Just a bit of a sidebar here Ryan, but you mentioned the safety protocols either adopted or dropped by these two, and I wanted to tell you in your problematic posters a.k.a. millennium force video how I couldn't agree more that the iroc(?) protocols need to be dropped desperately because they have absolutely killed any quicker entry on millennium because of them. As a lifer at cedar point, I remember in years past when staring at a big empty section of the queue line for that ride thinking "wow, we're gonna get right on". Now I can stare at the same empty section and it's still an hour wait. Ridiculous. I hope they drop that system with the merger

[@dino1.0]

Whenever I watch ElToroRyan my brain implodes from all the ratios and stuff

[@cedarpointfanatic4283]

I always thought cedar fair parks were cleaner and more efficiently ran.

[@santwashere]

not even close, they severely neglect their smaller parks its very sad... six flags has a copy and paste model so you know exactly what you are paying for

[@Adrians_films]

@@santwasherewhy are you treating it like they abuse children

[@cedarpointfanatic4283]

cedar fair is better ran

[@brandoncole5533]

I think this is the first time i heard someone speak positvely on what six flags could bring to the table

[@Ari--d]

living in the bay area, i really have no access to cedar fair parks. i can drive to LA for Knotts, but their thrill coasters are always broken, so i may as well go to magic mtn. I hope this merger lets 6flags expand their current parks.

[@OofThatsNice]

If Six Flags New England knocks down Flashback and puts a new coaster in the plot where Goliath sat, I will consider this a success 😂

[@1BillionMarbles]

As someone with insider information in regards to future plans for a small Cedar Fair park, I wonder if those plans for specific park investments that were made before the merger but not carried out will actually go through with, or be cancelled outright. It seemed like this merger came out of nowhere, and at this point I am nervous for the future, and how the merger will affect the smaller SF and CF parks.